tv The Exchange CNBC February 23, 2021 1:00pm-2:00pm EST
jpmorgan and -- >> i did not hear those to be honest. >> all right. we will do it again another time. the big story is the nasdaq down 342, and that is 2.5% down, and we will do another question tomorrow. "the exchexchange" begins now. federal reserve chair jay powell wrapping up the testimony before the senate banking committee and his words are calming the markets. and this is "the exchange" and the stock averages may be lower, but they are far off of their session lows. at one point the tech-heavy nasdaq was off 4%, and incredible slide for thane t in, but it has recover and nearly biggest loss in a year and half. the biggest bounce back was the
chair saying that the fed has its collective back. now to steve liesman with what jay powell said cutting some of the losses. steve? >> hey, brian. yeah, fed chair jay powell addressing the two market concerns of inflation, and yields and making sure that he is not in any hurry to address them with the fed's wide open monetary policy to remain in place while the economy recovers from the pandemic. >> the main thing that we can do is to continue to support the economy and give pitit the suppt that it needs. we are 10 million payroll jobs below the crisis and still a long way to go to the forward recovery and we intend to keep the policy supportive of that recovery. >> powell said that the pandemic had left an imprint on inflation that would last and while the fed ex pekts a little inflation
increase, but it is going to be temporary. so aim for inflation above 2%, and on the related issue of the bond yields, powell said it is not an issue that concerned him much. >> we are looking at the whole lookcondition, and it is important to look at why the rates are moving up. it is to do with the expectations of the return to more normal levels and mandate level of inflation, and higher growth and opening economy and in a way it is a statement of confidence on the part of markets that we will have a robust and ultimately complete recovery, and so those are the reasons that are behind it. >> powell declined to be drawn into the debate of raising the minimum wage to $15 saying it is an issue for congress, and he removed himself from the debate of the need for new relief perhaps more than he had in the past of prior bills, and powell reiterating that the fed
continues to study the issue of the central bank digital currency, and he is cool with the higher yield and possible inflation stuff. >> cool with the language though, steve, because you know better than anybody, words matter. one change here or one change there, and in january, he said that the job market moderated, and this time, he said slowed. again, a small difference, but these are the kinds of the words that people are pick up, and should we read into that or did he go to the thesaurus and find a different word >> well, i think that in this case, it is the thesaurus or answer b in this context, brian. i think that powell and the fed, and indeed many of the economists are disappointed in what has happened in the last three month where is the job growth is averaging 29,000 and the big spurts of adding millions of jobs a month, and that has gone away, and the slowdown in job growth is something that concerns the fed. it is interesting, brian, to
listen to powell parry the questions from the republican senators of why aren't you tightening and easing back on the policy and almost every time, brian, the answer was because we are 10 million jobs below where we were in february. >> oh, steve, thank you very much. i guess that the bottom line here is that powell says a long way to go for the forward recovery and the fed is not altering the monetary policy and the markets are back, and so this the right move with the consumer confidence coming in better than expected in february and large parts of the american economy, real estate, manufacturing, shipping is, and actually doing quite well. joining us is bill lee, the chief economist at the milken institute, and dana peterson at the conference board, and bill and dana, welcome both, and dana, your take on jay powell, and do you believe that the federal reserve has, and this is not a traditional slowdown, and this is not caused by this or
that, but it is caused by people not wanting to go to work or unable to go to work, because they don't want to get sick. does federal reserve have the power that it usually would in a slowdown of the traditional kind >> well, i mean, there is still tools that the fed has certainly using words and such as even if it means breaking out th thesaurus there. but i think that the key issue here is that the fed has said that full employment is a broad and inclusive mandate, and that means that the fed is going to be looking at the multiple indicators here, and not the overall unemployment rate, but unemployment rates of the labor force for participation of different group, and women and persons who are young, and people with low skills and racial groups, and so i think that given that, yes, we are 9 to 10 million jobs under where we were prior to the pandemic, the fed is concerned about the bottom line for households. >> and i hear you on, that bill, but here's the thing, and i have
traveled extensively during the pandemic, and mostly by car, and sitting alone in rooms or whatever it might be, and i have noticed that there are multiple economies. california and new york and northeast and chicago are very different than the majority, and half of america's school kids are actually in school in person, and like 42%, which you would never notice if you read the headlines and i bring it up for a reason. the milken conference is usually the first weekend in may, and couple of thousand of people come to california in may and spend a couple of million, and this is not happening. is the federal reserve fix that? those are the 9 million jobs. >> that is what the democrats would like the fed to do and the mission that has been given to the fed, because what they need to do is the fiscal policy which can address the disparities in the economy. and brian, as you have noticed the service sector is crushed by the pandemic, and you know that there are six people working in
the service sector for services and goods, and in orderer for the service sector to come back, we have to restore a lot of jobs, and that what chair powell is worried about to sustain large scale job increases without turning on inflation. and one of the things that the market has gotten wrong is that the inflation fears associated with the rate increases are really misplaced, because the rates are 10 years at 1.3 or 1.4, and it was at 1.9 at the beginning of 020. so nowhere near where the rates should be in a normal recovery, and so one thing other is the tech stocks getting killed. one thing to keep in mind when you have a strong recovery the numerator per share will explode so that just because the denominator goes up, the valuation should go down especially for the companies that -- >> bill, bill, let me follow up here, and i'm not trying to wade into some vaccine debate or that, but i was in florida and south carolina and i had trouble getting a hotel room. they were sold out. the rental cars, and i had
trouble getting a rental car, sold out. and in california where the milken institute is based, i am not going to california, because nothing is open, and nothing to do i am not advocating for open, but does the federal reserve have a power to quote fix the job market when in reality the job market in many areas is simply closed because people don't want to go deal with the deadly pandemic? yeah, i don't know. we don't have bill's sound, and we will get him back, and dana, if you heard my question, can you respond to that? >> sure. the thing is that what is really important is that businesses feel and people feel comfortable going back to work, and certainly is that is a function of the government policies in terms of the restrictiveness and also people's comfort with taking a vaccine, and so the fed, you know, they can work to provide accommodation in this transition period, and
certainly, you know, fiscal policy so far has been supportive of the economy, but certain things that the fed cannot do, and the fed can't go to tell governments, hey, we need to open or the kids need to go back to school. but what the fed can do is to make sure that the financial conditions remain easy and lending remains easy and we can support the areas of economy that are still working. >> yeah, perfectly said, and i think that you nailed it, dana, and i think that schools, again, not advocating here, but schools are the key to job, because millions of people cannot go to work, because they don't, and can't leave their child home alone at, you know, 9 years old to virtually learn, and quickly, a downside to this policy at all, dana? because if there were not a downside to ultra low rates we would always have them, and close the book, and walk away forever, and 32 people bidding for a house in florida sight unseen, and is there ak? >> sure.
certainly risks to keeping the rates low for a long time, and one of them is asset price inflation, and the houses rising quickly and the stock market is rising aggressively on the expectations of the further stimulus, and better growth of more people getting the vaccines, and so you are seeing the division of the haves and the have nots and those who own homes and do not, and those who have financial assets and those who don't, and the risks, and the risks of taking on too much debt certainly with the respect of the nonfinancial corporate sector, but the fed must weigh those risks against making sure they are maintaining the accommodation, and making sure that the financial markets are fully liquefied. >> dana peterson, we appreciate your view, and bill lee, if you are out there, thank you. and we will get you back on soon. and both of you, have a terrific day. thank you. we have a market flash now, because snap shares are popping. over to julia boorstin for that.
julia? >> snap shares were in the red today, but the company is currently holding the investor day, and the snap shares are trading higher on one specific comment that the company is saying that thanks to the work on the self-serve ad platform they are in a position to drive multiple years of 50% plus revenue growth and talking about the monetization platforms and talking about augmented video ads and now you see that snap shares are up 3.5% on the comment that meaningful 50%-plus growth is in the works for multiple years to come. back to you. >> julia boorstin with snap, and it is up. thank you. we are just getting startied wit "the exchange. and jay powell may say that the inflation is not a ririsk, but with le find out what is going on around it. and the big beat, and what is driving losses, and what is
going to be hurt as the economy opens, and the mystery chart. we will let you know. and plus more on the story of the last week, the largest forced power outage in american history and what really caused it, and how do we prevent that from ever happening again right after this. hi, i'm a new customer and i want your best new smartphone deal. well i'm an existing customer and i'd like your best new smartphone deal. oh do ya? actually it's for both new and existing customers. i feel silly. but i do want the fastest 5g network. oh i want the fastest 5g network. are we actually doing this again? it's not complicated. only at&t gives everyone the same great deal. like the samsung galaxy s21 5g for free when you trade in. the holidays weren't exactly smooth sledding
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all right. welcome back here. let's get a check on the markets. the dow, the dow is down but only 0.4, and it was down almost 400 at one point. and the nasdaq has been the story. listen, i won't make light of a 2% drop on the nasdaq, because it is a big drop for that index, but at one point it was down nearly 4%. just today, coming back on some of the fed comments that we have talked about and the technology is the so-called growth sectors are a much bigger weighting than the so-called value. about 77% of the overall market. so if people are rotating out of growth into value, names like by the way, oil, energy, things like that, you call them value if you want, but in that group, it is going to have the outsized effect of how the overall market moves. what is clear is the g.
o.a.t., to get out and travel, and marriott is doing great, but the worst is the vaccine maker moderna, and peloton is up there on the list, and zoom, and paypal, and the stay at home and work from home, and the pandemic-type stocks are the ones being sold. for more on this, bringing in michael kagino, and a.j. odon the head of the risk of bny mellon solutions. and michael, are you one of the investors who have been dumping the stay at home, and work from home stocks and buying into the get out and travel or value names? >> good to see you, brian. no. we have had exposure to a little bit of both, and so, no, we have not been making the major portfolio changes, but i agree with the trade in the long term, the post covid, and the recovery and the inflation, and the going forward is where the longer term opportunity s but you don't want the give up on the higher
growth, and the high-tech names, because there is revenue growth, and cash growth, and earnings growth, and the stocks have a place in the growing economy as well, and it is not an either/or question for me. >> and a.j., there is going to be a world post pandemic, sooner than later, and what i know is that demographics are often destiny, and 85 million millennials and the first is looking at 40 years old and moving out of the apartment to homes and doing it faster, because of the pandemic, and the interest rates are low, and i bring it up, because could real estate be the best trades of the next 5 to 10 years >> well, it could, and if we are thinking of the interest rate environment over in, as our position at mellon solution, we are overweight risks as we are seeing the yield curve steepening, and real assets have the potential to do well in a rising inflation environment. but i would caution allocating
to you even like the mbs side, and take into consideration that we have had a lot of sort of help from the fiscal policy and even from some of the forbearances on the mortgages that those numbers may not be completely accurate. as much as real estate does look attractive in the real assets in general, i caution moving completely there, but it is sizing the bets accurately, and system of the pullback that we are seeing in growth, and necessarily, i would consider doing is just to reallocating and positioning better. sometimes it is not just real assets, but looking at the value as well. >> a.j.a quick follow-up on your own comment before i go to michael, where do we reallocate to, and what is looking good to your team at bny mellon? >> nondollar now. the dollar has been moving around at 90 and even 92, but i think that with a lot of the fiscal stimulus and the trade
deficit, there is an opportunity for the dollar to go lower, and when you are looking at the nondollar equities and the better p.e. ratios and the earnings yield and e.m., it is more attractive as an opportunity, and the pullback in the market, it is going to have to do with the people not getting the adequate return on the investment based on the risk, and due to high p.e. ratios, so you will get a better return with non-dollar exposure. >> yes. michael, quickly, buying commodities? very quick >> yep. we are at the beginning of a longer term commodity cycle with the supply and demand and we agree with a.j. on the weaker dollar and global growth, so if you are looking for the long-term gains, that is where you want to b and it is oil, energy, industrial metals and all kinds of commodities is a greater space long term. >> and the super cycle, and a.j., and michael, thank you so much. demographics, folks.
if you are looking for more stock picks, cnbc pros have a group of 12 that are coming together in the trade. you get the names at cnbc.com/pro. all right. come up here on "the exchange" recycling not just for boxes and bottles. one tesla group is looking to shake it up. we have one phil lebeau in carson city looking at it. >> we are awash in the old lithium batteries whether it is for the old lawnmower, and what happens when the batteries are no longer used. well, they end up here in carson city, nevada, and we are here behind the story of nev recycling, and why it is so important.
or do you get up? [announcer] and this fight is a long way from over, leonard is coming back. ♪♪ ♪♪ welcome back to "the exchange" and over to tyler mathison for a cnbc update >> hello, my friend. this is what is happening at this hour. the french researchers have developed a coronavirus test that delivers results three times faster than an antigen tests and can be developed on a smartphone. it can be more accurate than a pcr test for positive and negative results. the chief of the cherokee nation wants jeep to stop using tribe's name on the vehicles.
in a recent interview with "car and driver" the chief carl hoskins jr. says it is time for the sports teams and jeep to retire the name of native american names and mosascots, a jeep has used the name for 45 years. and a judge has named the wife of the kingpin el chapo to remain in jail for charges of drugs and plotting to help the drug kingpin to escape. she is due in court later today. for more on the legal battle that she is face, watch the news with shepard smith tonight. and that, brian, that the cnbc news update this hour. back to you. >> thank you, my friend, tyler mathison. all right. electric cars are cool, and viewed as environmental, but remember that evs use a lot of
heavy batteries with a lot of stuff in them, and when they die, they need a place to go. and now, elon musk is leading the way with tesla, and now we go if phil lebeau with the latest on the batteries. >> here they get 60 tons a day of lithium batteries and battery scrapped material of the battery cells. what does that look like check it out from above. they are getting 60 tons a day, and that is when they start to recycle the scrap metal of the old battery cells, and in fact, they have signed an agreement with aesc to take some of their battery cells and scrap metal as the manufacturing the battery packs for the nek nissan leaf manufacturer in tennessee. they then take it to panasonic plant where they are buildin
the battery cells that ultimately go into the tesla vehicles. the ceo of redwood materials started this, j.b. straubl the former number two at tesla, and he says it is all about making sure that there is enough supply for the future generation of ev batteries. >> it is so important, because electrification and the movement toward electric vehicles is entering the steep part of the s-curve. so it is important solution to sustainability, but equally important that we both deal with the end of life problems before it is overwhelming. >> take a look at the chart. this is going to say it all. the energy research advisers believes that by 2030, look at the demand in ev batteries that is skyrocketing, and this is if you take all of the word of the battery makers and automakers and startups that say we are planning to build this many
electric vehicles and do we have supply of cobalt, lithium, and nickel, and nowhere close to it. nowhere close it to, and that is where the redwood materials coming in, because they can take the old batteries. >> they want to turn the ice, because cobalt is literally an 11-year-old kids in congo are sent into the holes for a couple of pennies a day and dying to get the cobalt, and the tech industry wants to do this, and this is why i am glad to see this story, but how good is the cobalt and potent enough to replace literally the child labor that is going on in other parts of the world? >> yes. yes. no difference. you can take the nickel, the cobalt, and some of the other raw materials coming out of the old batteries, and repurpose it, and it is as effective as if you were taking it straight out of the ground. and the beauty is that there are billions, billions of old lithium ion batteries and
everything from the cell phones to cordless drills to electric vehicles and billions of them not in use over the next 10, 15 years and that i have to go somewhere and this is where redwood materials comes in. >> all right. really cool story there. i love it. uncle phil out there in the mountains. it is a great shot. s we just need the paint. look at that. another crypto collapse, the g.o.a.t. trade is on fire. and all of that is coming up on rapid fire. and check out the casino stocks, and again, get out and travel, right? they are boom. whatever you think about it, the las vegas sands is on page for the best month since august of 2009. mgm, wynn, all on fire. dreams of full vegas hotels by labor day are dancing in
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graphic says for "rapid fire" and some stories and stuff. it should be on your radar, and here to break down the stuff is deirdre bosa and bob pisani and kate rooney, and kick it off with the bitcoin. and it says cryptocurrency in the prompter, but it is not. i won't call it that. the crypto thing is having a bad week, and tumbling below 50,000, after record highs over the weekend. in two days the bitcoin value has dropped by 18%. so the sell-off is accelerating after secretary yellen called it quote extremely insufficient way of conducting transactions, end quote. at the dealbook conference fed chair jay powell sharing his views on the need of the crypto and dollar surge. >> we are the world reserve currency and we have a responsibility to get it right.
we don't have to be the first, but we have to get right. it is positive and could help financial inclusion as well, but at the same time, you want to avoid creating something that is destabilizing or drawing the funds away from banking system we have a banking system. >> kate rooney, your take on this, and cryptos, whatever they are, the big move. >> well, the crypto things. it is interesting to hear janet yellen's commentary, and what we have seen before, because we know that crypto is not an efficient means of payment, and nobody is buying coffee with it. so it is a surprise that it dragged on the crypto as well, and elon musk said that the price is too high, and it seems like it may have been a little bit overbought, and weakness there, and also, the fund strat got this fear and greed index. and on the greed side, it was up to 95 which they had not seen in
a while, and so it is volatile, and proving itself in that sense, but the idea from that we just heard from powell, clayton, but that we just heard about the idea of a digital dollar, and that already exists in the private sector, and it has not really taken off. you don't have people like jack dorsey and michael sailor from microstrategies buying the bitcoin, because they can't get access to the digital dollar. they want something that is not affiliated with the government or the central bank or the monetary policy, so it is not much of a competition there, and i think that they can exist side by side. >> it is like the "the office" and the bobs, right, and the bob pisani, and the jays and the powells, right when they are coming, they move this market. >> i like that tight shot of jay powell, and it is visceral, and like being in a alfred hitchcock movie, and we should do it more
often. but janet yellen is right, how can you use it as a method of payment, when it is almost losing 25% in two days because elon musk says it seems a little high. it is not bitcoin that is a little high, but it is people who are a little high who think that it is a little medium vix exchange, andhe tethered dollar, we will iron out the dollar, and it be used, and not the one we have here. >> and again on the tweet, and deirdre, deirdre, and he said lol, and speaking of high, that tweet came at 2:02 in the morning, and he said that bitcoin and ether seem high, lol at 2:02 there. >> and for elon musk high can
have a few meanings as bob alluded to. but how are we talking about the efficiency, and there are so many ways to take this, and the technology behind it are more so than whether you can use it to buy a coffee. the fact that it is take up so much air among people like janet yellen and jay pow swel indii -- powell that it is here to stay, and going to take up conversation in the years and the decades ahead, and powell's comment of a central bank issue of a digital currency is what seems like an endorsement and not of bitcoin, but blockchain, and what is going to fuel the future of finance and exchange. >> and bob just sent off a meme, if bitcoin was a hitchcock movie, would it bebe" is coe --
"psycho" or "in the window" or which one? >> yes, and the biggest problem with this is the comps. the market is moving on fundamentals and the comps up are 20%, and the third is 24%, and that is hard to go against that. the street going to notice that here. although, i would say that home depot is 21% times forward earn, and it has not moved in age, and it is the same price, and it is usually the same, and it is not overpriced, but how much more upside, and look at that, sideways since august. >> all right. moving on -- >> and brian, a key question.
>> and home depot, and hold on, because i want to go on to a bigger topic, and deirdre, one that you know way too well, and we have not talked about we work in a couple of minute, and here it is soft bank and we work ceo adam neumann has entitled the ceo a payout of $480 million according to the intrepid reporter deirdre bosa and what they had was half a million for newman is not bad, but i want you to cite deirdre bosa's report, but i can drive a company into the ground for way less than $480 million. >> and this is going to solve the dispute between them, and
for wework to become a payment at the 470 million that was once fetched, but way less than the valuation it was recently marked down to, and folks say somewhere near $10 billion and that is probably a victory for softbank because it clears up one of their biggest black eyes over the last few years since it created it, and softbank has been firing on many cylinders and reaching an all-time high in the share price, and vision fund has turned it around, and some of the bets are turning the out, and the question of wework one of the most embarrassing bet, and if this can be resolved and wework can be a public company, it is another win for massasan and a string of them. >> i don't know the producers of
it, but the podcast we crashed and i listened to it while driving through louisiana and if you want to know the story and the weirdness and the cult almost that went on, recommend that podcast. that said, what is your take on this story >> it is so interesting. like deirdre mentioned the company finally going public, and it is not that it is a bad idea, but the company was bloated and got into other areas, and we live and things that had nothing to do with the work space, but looking at the reopening trade, and if the future of wework is people looking for smaller office pace, it could work, but now that they have whittled down company, and more focused, it could work, so i am interested to see the next chapter of wework. >> and mas sasasochi's son set p to work.
so, now, looking at genz's millennials are investors of 6 in 10 investors for reddit for information, and some the most popular platforms are not what you would expect, it is youtube, and tiktok and instagram, and in fact, 13% of those surveyed are investing on reddit or the sub-reddits like the wall street bets or other wise. bob pisani, it sounds like the new world is a little bit like the old world in a sense that a few big plays are where people are turning. and by the way, it is probably throw cnbc in there. >> i agree with that, and i love the fact that with all of the obsession with reddit, what is really where people go they go to youtube and tiktok, and not reddit, and so that is interesting number one. and two, did you see the bottom of the survey? 22% of the young investors trade stocks at least once a week, and good luck on that. i wish that everybody well, and
i hope they stay as long term investors, and we know that people who trade consistently as day traders over long periods lose money, and the academic literature is very clear on that, so let's hope that the number, that ratio of the people who are constantly trading all of the time goes down, because it is looking like you are a genius in the up market, and you know that, brian, and what happens when you are not. so try to keep the people, but careful with that. >> well, you know, kate rooney, we are bringing them into the market, but listen, every generation, every 10 year, it flips, and in the '70s it is cut off the ac/dc shirts and marlboro reds, but then it is cut off the pinks and the saabs and things the flip over and it is good for the people to get interested in the market even if they take hit, and stay in long term, 60 years, congrats. >> something like tiktok feels like just as much entertainment as financial literacy and if you
can combine it, good thing. a lot of the startup brokerage firms have leaned in, and sofi and venmo and you can see where the friends are trading, and today, there was an ad with michael bolton talking about market structure which we were laughing about before this saying that it is sort of the fact that michael bolton and market structure are being concerned that he is trying to get people to brokerage firms is fascinating, and deirdre and i were on slack laughing about that, but yeah, the new normal. >> i love that. i love how you ended that, that we were on slack. >> and it is -- [ laughter ] >> i have to say that they trying to be relevant with the younger investing crowd, but using michael bolton and is that the right person to use? i don't know. >> he is coming a long way. >> we have to go, and we have to go, and -- nobody won or lost, just like millennial, and
everybody is that we all did the same on that one, but, bob, some of the people have to watch out, because there are securities rules, and analysts come on the show, and they have 16 pages of disclosures and i am saying to people, that i love it and awesome, but be careful. deirdre, kate, bob, awesome "rapid fire" and no doubt the best of the week. all right. still ahead, covid vaccine supply is getting tighter across the country with the weather and the winter storms are not helping matters, and we will have the latest details straight ahead and straight from the manufacturers themselves, and remember, it is black history month, and we are honoring some of our cnbc contributes or the and friends. this is courtney gibson with her advice for the next generation. >> one piece of advice that i would give to the next generation of young black people in this country is to be unapologetically black it is your super power it can be your super power it is up to you the use it.
all right. the fed chair jay powell and the fed reserve to the rescue, and you are saying, brian, sef everything is in the red, yes, but the nasdaq was down 3.9% which is a massive move for tech, and not making light of it, but nasdaq is down 1.8%, and the markets are down from the lows and concerns about the rising rates and the bond market that is, and the jay powell says from our end, don't worry, the low rates for a long time. all right. moving on from the most important story of the generation which is ending the pandemic, and the nationwide vaccination efforts to the
disruption in the weather of delivery of vaccinations. but at least 13% of americans have received their doses, and we need to focus at the adults over 18 who have gotten at least one shot is 64.1 million americans. and we go to meg tirrell. >> today, in front of the house committee, there were some updates in the written technology of the vaccine supplies and so we have moderna and pfizer saying that they are going to be doubling the u.s. supply to 40 million doses or more per month by april and pfizer is going to more than double the output to the u.s. t 13 million doses per week by
mid-march and then we also heard from johnson and johnson with the authorization that could happen this weekend potentially, and now they are saying that they will have at least 20 million doses by the end of march, and j&j is one-shot vaccine and so that is enough or the 20 million. and then novavax is expecting the phase three trial to come in the next few week, and so we should be in the lookout for that and novavax is going to submit the submission to the fda in the third quarter to have 110 million doses by the third quart we quarter which is for the third quarter 130 million americans and then by the end of july more than 400 million americans so that we will have a supply glut even if it does not feel that way. brian. >> and i have been bullish on
it, but once we get into the normal supply chain, and cvs walgreen's, we will start to boogie a little bit. and now, to texas, and most of the lights me they don't havr either way, what exactly really went wrong where did it go wrong and more importantly, how do we prevent this from happening again? head now to texas tomorrow for the end of the week to do on the ground reporting but we'll talk ouiterne abt he xt i made a business out of my passion. i mean, who doesn't love obsessing over network security? all our techs are pros. they know exactly which parking lots have the strongest signal. i just don't have the bandwidth for more business. seriously, i don't have the bandwidth. glitchy video calls with regional offices? yeah, that's my thing. with at&t business, you do the things you love. our people and network will help do the things you don't. let's take care of business.
president biden and first lady jill biden will travel to houston, texas, on friday following the deadly winter storm which caused the state's worst blackout in decades. for more now on exactly what happened and how to prevent it we're joined now by dan cohen, associate professor of civil and environmental engineering at rice university and energy grid expert professor cohen, daniel, thank you for coming on. i'm headed to houston tomorrow to do on the ground reporting but from your perch and what i've seen in red, it looks like it was not only just a perfect storm but a colossal breakdown
on almost every single level at the same time. >> it was. it was a colossal breakdown. it was failures in ways that we can't have our systems fail and it was a perfect storm it was about strong as storms we get every 20 or 30 years on average. it was a very strong storm but not unprecedented and not anything beyond the storms we should be preparing for in the future >> it happened in 2011 people screamed, we need change. it happened in 1989 people screamed we need change strongly worded letters i'm sure were issued. nothing got done it's a deregulated love it they love it and every ten years, they hate it. what's the solution? better regulate this market? >> there is no one solution. i mean, it was a catastrophic failure on so many levels. this was an energy systems failure. it was a market failure, a regulatory failure
as an engineering professor, i look at this as an energy systems failure. i focus on that side of things and it's important we realize it can't be within the electricity system alone but a matter of the mutual vulnerabilities of our gas system and electricity systems with each other. >> and again, unfortunately, daniel, like everything becomes politicized. my side, your side wind versus fossil okay, natural gas was the biggest failure. because it's the biggest out there. pipes literally froze but wind turbines condensed with fog, they shut down coal plants. the water froze, even a nuclear plant shut down. is there a way to winter isize s and if so, what would be the ultimate cost, do you think? >> absolutely. every single piece of our electricity supply gave us less output at the same time all at once, right at the same time
that demand would have been a record high for winters if not forced down by these blackouts every piece could have been carrying a bigger part of the load could be doing more with efficiency to reduce that demand, but by far, the biggest piece, the piece that overwhelmed every other piece of this flurry is the way the gas systems and electricity. >> by the way, texas leads the country in wind. late friend, saudi arabia of wind in many ways, but do you think this is going to increase natural gas production long-term because to your point, commercial and residential use are very different here. >> if we use this as a reason to stop building wind and adding solar, solar is growing so fast on the grid, we'll be really
shooting ourselves in the foot those are what i call fuel saving those are fuels that aren't meant to get us through the very coldest hour of the winter if they say fuel, they say cost and the missions all year round. the gas can be there at the times we need it most. that was expected to be the resource there are great questions to be asked. winterized, is that the right investment to make absolutely the nuclear unit went down it wasn't prepared for freezing water, absolutely a problem there that the coal plants weren't able to produce that we need the most. across each aspect of the system and if possible, we learn the wrong lessons from this. >> some lessons will be learned. try to figure it out pleasure, thank you very much. actually be on the ground in houston on thursday and friday as well, telling the story and the human stories. if you've got a human story from d ve tn, hit me up on twitter.
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