tv Closing Bell CNBC November 15, 2021 3:00pm-5:00pm EST
pr privacy. >> thank you, mac. >> bitcoin is not lower and with a major upgrade it was a bigger problem. >> thank you for watching "power lunch." >> "closing bell" starts right now. welcome to "closing bell." i'm wfrds with sara eisen at the new york stock exchange. president biden is expected to sign the infrastructure bill shortly with a bipartisan group of lawmakers in attendance >> as we await the signing let's get straight to kayla tausche with the latest on the bill and what to expect this afternoon? kayla? >> reporter: you can see hundreds of attendees milling about there on the south lawn ranging from lawmakers, members of okrganized and corporate america and donors and campaign
advisers to the president, as well all celebrating this achievement to talk about as historic for several weeks. trillion-dollar bipartisan infrastructure deal that will soon be distributed to states and localities as the country and the white house tries to upgrade broadband, invest in the country's electric grid and also repair aging roads and bridges to that end the white house announced that former new orleans mayor landrieu is named the infrastructure coordinator he will be overseeing the way that the funds go out the door and making sure to go out the door and go to the right projects the white house got a question today about the oversight mechanism for the bill we're waiting for details on the parts of the program landrieu was mayor of new orleans where in the wake of hurricane katrina he was trying to shepherd federal money to
fast track projects there to get the city back on the feet and the white house feels he has direct on the ground experience to do this the stakes are high for the package. the white house said that the $2 trillion american rescue plan from earlier this year meant to staunch the bleeding in the economy. this package and the potentially forthcoming package are set to get the country growing again. democratic leadership in the house suggested it could take place this week. we'll wait and see we are going to be hearing from the vice president kamala harris today touting this achievement one thing that's been pretty clear recently is visibility of the transportation secretary on this issue while the vice president has been in more of the background on this issue and there have been questions about whether the white house is trying to keep her from celebrating this and
potentially any political fallout for her in the future as there's talks of what happens in 2024, 2028 and beyond and certainly it is a day of celebration as you can see here at the white house and expecting the president to speak later on this hour as he signs this piece of legislation. >> question for you on which projects get it. i hope the brent spence bridge gets it that connects cincinnati to northern kentucky every politician back to president obama talked on that bridge republican and democrat about how overused it is and how old it is and i wonder if it's up to the states to determine this and how much red tape there is going to be to get the projects going, just how's it all going to work after he signs it basically >> reporter: i think the municipalities have to queue up for the specific agency dispersing the funds and that's part of what landrieu's job is going to be, to figure out how and whether to prioritize the
projects and to deal with some of the political blowback that might come with that you might remember there's been a situation around the gateway funding in the new york and nrch n new jersey area, prioritizing a high dollar project that very few and were wealthy people use compared to the rest of the country and in the trump administration funding was put on the back burner because of that and this is squarely falling to landrieu to work with states and municipalities but you will be standing on the bridge covering it live with a big check if and when it happens. >> they need the money so many cars on that bridge. it actually really is not just me from being from cincinnati but every politician shows the crumbling infrastructure and i hope they get it. >> making a good case. i hope they have it. i'm happy to have transatlantic
travel and that's my win we'll take you to the signing live but back to the market. a mixed session here on wall street mike santoli is tracking the action for us. into red on all four averages. >> really toggling with minimal changes around the flat line all day and kind of quietly holding steady still view this as a prolonged breather that we have gotten after the sprint into the end of the week before last that jobs report we pulled back to the s&p ten-day average. today the story is big nasdaq high moment names like tesla and nvidia continue to give back some gains restraining the s&p 500. banks, retailers look fine energy group, crude oil and the exploration and production sector of energy all the talk about inflation and how obviously prices going up
and what does it mean on a forward looking basis. we haven't had a new high in crude oil in a few weeks now and the stocks flattened out and probably somewhat of a relief and welcome to the rest of the financial markets to see it come off. up huge on a year to date basis and let the increases filter through the system everybody talks in an alarmed way of inflation. take a look here as one measure of sell side expectations for corporate america. this is from b of a. showing that long term earnings growth expectations for companies are through the roofer exceeding what we saw at the top of the tech bubble this is not carefully managed number and not what analysts think about but shows a willingness to extrap late the earnings gains and it is a contrarian signal than encouraging up this high and a
lot of expectations including for market returns look like they're heady out there based on the surveys. >> we see high profile tech names decline today as yields spike. is that linked or trying to draw too much of a conclusion there >> i wouldn't say those names linked because yields while up you have the 30 year above 2% but this is an unwind of unavailable momentum moves for those stocks i would say i'm not convinced it is much of an influence but microsoft, alphabet down. it shows the dollar is not going to the deflationary secular growth plays but always caution against too much of relatively marginal daily moves. >> mike, thank you up next, restaurant brands
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restaurant brands international the parent company of burger king announcing today to acquire firehouse southbounds for a billion dollars in an all cash transaction stock down 18% from the high of the year ceo jose sell joins us for a first on cnbc interview from jacksonville, florida. jose, i love the story of the chain. it started in the '80s by former for the brothers why this one we expected a deal for a long time this is how you have grown but why this and why now >> we have actually grown tremendously thank you for having me. we have grown through unit growth and same store sales but acquisitions have been important with tim horton's, popeye's and now fire house this is an awesome brand
we are excited about the opportunity to partner with them and to see growth continue in the u.s. we have shared information this morning when we filed about the growth they have seen of the last ten, 10 -- 11 years from unit growth to 1200 years. 3x growth. system wide growth 4x in that time franchisees have started to grow in canada. also in puerto rico and we have seen that business perform really well so we're excited about what's in front of us with firehouse. it is a great brand. differentiated brand positioning that's purpose driven be the firehouse public safety foundation they have given back $60 million to communities in which they operate for police departments and fire departments use
they have a great team, great products that are loved from anybody else in the sub space and fits within what we do and we see that there's a massive opportunity for growth here in the u.s., in canada and all around the world. >> that's what i was going to ask you. what the potential to grow the brand is especially internationally as you have done some of the others. >> yeah. i think we have a unique network of master franchisees to build we have seen some success with tim horton's in china getting to 300 stores in roughly 2 years and we believe that our full no network with bk, popeye's and tim horton's allows firehouse to accelerate growth domestic a lly and internationally. late last night five minutes
before midnight and announced it will this morning and led by don fox and looking forward to work with him and the organization to continue the journey they're on and accelerate it internationally. the other opportunity from a digital stand point. they have made inroads there but with the investments in technology and the business and examples like tim horton's in canada >> and, jose, how are supply chains looking at the moment meat shortages a thing of the past >> yeah. the situation is challenging we shared some information around performance and the challenges in distribution in the northeast with popeye's in particular but we have a great network of suppliers, of distributors here in the u.s. and canada and feel confident long term and continue to work
with the challenges in the near term >> what about sales overall? i have noticed the stock underperformed this year with the competitors like mcdonald's or a yum brands. annual ohio states point to burger king u.s. sales why do you think that's been the case >> yeah. i shared some updates in our last call around burger king and building a great team there and made changes and tom cur tisz is at the helm with 35 years of experience in the industry and mostly focused on operations so we feel good about the team building there and focused on near term working a plan together with the franchisees and an opportunity to further growth for burger king in the u.s. with popeye's we started to open internationally in the uk, very
soon in mexico middle east and other markets have huge potential for growth and then with tim horton's we are excited about the progress to make in canada with the back to basings plans and exciting news coming down the pike from a development standpoint internationally and look forward to share more as we continue that journey to grow domestically and internationally as well. >> quick final question from me across all of the different brands are you seeing interest in fake meat wane somewhat >> well, i don't know about fake meat but plant based is a big part of the business we have seen some growth in international businesses as well as some of the progress made in the u.s. with the launch of impossible we are excited about that. we think it's a long-term platform for growth for burger king here domestically and internationally and more to come on that front.
>> jose, thank you so much for joining us >> thank you have a great day. >> great background. >> plant based, fake, tomato, tomato you know what i meant. >> he got what you meant i think. the man behind the meta etf who's seen impressive upside as we head to break -- >> niccol with chipotle is tomorrow. >> i was looking at the screen that's happening, too. check out today some of the top searched tickers on cnbc.com
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last month companies and investors show interest in the concept rallying 11%. let's bring in matthew ball. great to see you thank you so much for joining us congrats on the performance and ringing the bell tonight. >> thank you. >> so my first question was to what extent you think the growth you've seen is purely down to the ticker you have as opposed to what's inside of it. >> i think we see a broad based understanding of the metaverse as a theme this is a multidecade transformation akin to the rise of the internet and the proliferation of the mobile internet several weeks ago familiarity with the concept was low and i think mark zuckerberg, among many other companies have highlighted that. >> right
and i get that maybe in the future that this will be a defining characteristic. we flashed five big holdings on the screen but it is amazingly similar to more broad tech stocks to the nasdaq 100 or the nasdaq itself. so at this stage is it really the title of what you are doing and the long term aim to deliver for you rather than having that many metaverse specific investments to make. >> in the top five in particular there are a number of differentiators. we have the pure play metaverse company of roblox. nvidia the highest holding last i checked. other etfs with similar rankings but we are very indexed to this theme. you are not wrong to identify that many of the metaverse
centriy companies are not yet public and cannot be included in this index and very early in this transaction late in the '90s and mid-2000s many companies came from the last generation and very quickly turned out we expect similar transformation. >> i know you have written extensively about this i'm not sure that people necessarily understand what it is investors are excited about it but we associate wit with the video games and that virtual reality but it is so much more and decades away from realizing it can you paint a picture of what you think is getting everyone so exciting >> there's a series of interconnected 3d rendered images like the websites and
information, sources and device just the metaverse will be, too, but in 3d why there's a good reason why the innovation is coming from the gaming industry because the only devices powerful enough were gaming consoles and intensive equipment and then of course the only companies to produce the environments were in the gaming space. but that's why we now see that companies like nvidia and unity focusing on the segment are pioneering inuse cases automote i, construction and more >> people point out and also after the iceland tourist board kind of mocking commercial last week of facebook's name change to meta we are talking about this superficial world to be created after a year in which we all realized how much we missed human interaction and i just ask
whether you think that things are a little over excited in this space at the moment. >> there's definitely some overexcitement but two things we learned in the pandemic. many of the experiences which from time to time must be done remote or that many people internationally do every day remote such as education are inadequate in the 2d environment. therefore there's hope that moving to a virtual 3d environment enhances the in-person experience and the at distance experience but it is important to highlight 300 million americans every day that watch an average of 5 1/2 hours of television have the average senior watches 7 1/2 hours of television per day it is the most common form of entertainment today. for my part i think any shift to
a more social engaged environment irrespective of the term you use will augment that iceland should be less focused on whether people will travel because of the metaverse but whether it will get people off the couch. >> it was funny. >> totally agree. >> what is the cryptocurrency of the metaverse? >> that's not yet to be determined we see new l1s move to the forefront. the consensus seems to be ethereum but crypto is seeing the rise of an unowned open standard that no one company can control. when you take a look at the epic versus apple lawsuit it is who gets to determine the digital economy. in the case of the cryptocurrencies there's no corporation in charge. the community decides the rates.
many believe if the metaverse economy is to thrive we need to build it in an open manner like the america. >> what do you think about facebook's new change, new branding are you critical of it or supportive of it do you have a sense of what they'll spend that money on doing? >> i think there are a few different point there is number one is almost everyone caught off guard by the enormity of the internet. facebook is not a sbepgs there they waited five years to launch a mobile application zuckerberg called it the greatest mistake i see they're telling shareholders and employees and partners they won't be late or arrive on time but pioneer there's value to do that and
it's matched by the spending 12 billion per year. asking where that money is going the answer is many different thing just they have a large brain to computer interface and devices under development and tests device size and bat ri life there's a lot measure to do. >> sounds like you're not upset that he ripped off your name. >> he is following through on a theme that many people have seen coming and i'm delighted investors agree with. >> the money is flowing many thank you for joining us. >> thank you. let's check in on the individual market movers oatly falling after a revenue miss and facing challenges with restrictions stock down 22% goldman sachs initiating coconut water produce vita coco. that stock up 20%. boeing shares higher after the
company said it is close to resume deliveries for the dreamliner jim cramer said this could be the big break boeing needs sign up. you can always point the phone here at the qr code right on the screen, that is. you would think i would know how to say it. >> said it too many times. time now for a news update with rahel solomon. >> hi. here's what's happening. a union representing film and tv production workers approved a labor agreement. the contract raises pay for some and reduces long hours on sets. the congressal budget office said they'll release an estimate of the cost of build back better deal by saturday it would boost climate change policy. penalties delayed for
companies that leave containers in ports too long. the ports were expected to begin charging the fees today but executives say there's significant progress to clear con containers from the docks there. and the u.s. criticizing russia for an anti-satellite missile test and said there's 1500 pieces of debris that could endanger astronauts on the international space station. you are up to date back to you. >> rahel, thank you. still to come, rivian charging higher once again today. widening the market cap lead over ford and gm we'll ask nyu professor whether it's justified 10-year approaching 1.60 dow down about 21 points
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inflation fears continue to weigh on markets after last week's consumer price data showed the largest surge in prices in three decades. joining us is a guest. ben, welcome back to the show. how do you position for it the s&p 500 has done well in the period of multi decade high in inflation. what stocks do you want to own >> hey, sara you want to start looking at one hand stocks that have historically done well in the '90s with the ibm which is not done well over the last
decade or so i guess maybe not as sensitive to inflation and are the automotive sector if you think of ford and gm so as an example so i guess a whole host of others but in an environment where inflation is prominent investors will look at the consumer side of the economy ultimately so i think you want to stay away from that. >> what about companys that are -- is the strategy companies to pass on price increases to consumers? that's been a big theme for a while now and the earnings reports have been scrutinized by the fact. >> that's for sure in the position to do that then obviously you maintain the margin and limited because ultimately if consumers walk away from seeing product way overpriced and alternatives you
can pass that on forever but thinking about the energy sector is where the pass through will continue no matter what because of the dependence on energy. probably the other side of the energy sector to continue. >> ben, what do you think about the u.s. dollar at this stage if inflation continues to persist is that bullish for the dollar or not >> i think in two ways bullish if inflation continues to move higher the market tries to price in but inflation has also level of uncertainty in the markets and in the economy that too can drive the dollar stronger so it is really notable here right now to break above
the 95 on the dollar index and following a similar pattern tapering the first time. and the dollar breaking out because it does indicate more momentum in response to that higher inflation. so from that sense the dollar has more upside from here. >> i think your thesis on the low multiple, cheaper companies that do well in inflation is interesting. you mentioned ibm. other names to look at >> there is a big group there but i think that if you take the ones that are posted there they're low multiples with challenging fundamentals for a while now and through the pandemic and i thinkthere too to the previous discussion on the show the airline sector used to stand out that way with few hedges on already and continue to respend
multiples, yeah. travel continues to come back irrespective of inflation and energy does. everybody looking at the value of the small cap sector and good to be in because you don't have a direct impact on the inflation unless it's consumer sentiment but not deteriorating that sector and are here to stay too. >> what about gold, ben? >> another interesting dynamic gold last week broke out together with the dollar kind of unusual combination. really because the interest rate with the negative real interest rate is so negative that gold typically lift from that but the dollar not and gold is an idea of yes a traditional inflation hedge that lacked the other commodities and lacked very popular bitcoin so it's probably in the position to have some opportunity here i wouldn't put
the eggs in that i think this inflation is about the economy continue to expand so gold has some upside. >> ben, thank you so much for joining us good to see you. president biden will sign the bipartisan infrastructure bill into law today. up next we'll look at what stocks might benefit whethe bill is signed we're back in a couple
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popular investing approach may not work in this current cycle and zeen of evaluation weighs in on rivian. and we'll tell you what's at stake for big tech we'll also look ahead to the roblox investor day and president biden expected to sign the infrastructure bill any moment now we'll bring you there as soon as it happens but first, we have got 12 minutes left to go in the trading day and going into the market zone, commercial free coverage of all the action mike santoli is here and odyssey capital investment jason snipe, as well. stocks are under pressure here s&p 500 and the nasdaq on track to snap a two-day win streak mike, quiet on the headline perspective. if you look at what is working today utilities, energy, staples, communication services. kind of defensive.
>> yeah. it is a muddle and really in a narrow band. wasn't much of a dip less than 2% therefore also not a very strong dip buying reflex and i feel like the market is holding steady, back in balance. no longer super stretched like a week ago this morning yet also not the kind of thing with tremendous buying energy behind it. not a lot to make of the intraday moves and hovering within 1% of all-time highs. >> up this month you would frame it as resilient in the face of big challenges? >> yeah. i think you would have to. not necessarily past all that stuff. in this strong seasonal period a potential for give back up until thanksgiving we also are in an options
expiration week. the 4700 on the s&p and seems like round number up 25% for the year type ceiling perceived in the very short term. >> you like financials, health care and cyclicals why explain why. >> yeah. mike touched on it five straight weeks of positive returns in the market so it's a time to take a little bit of a breather but thinking about profit margins which are expanding and not contracting i really lean to cyclicals how they handle with supply chains and working through that. i think financials, health care and return of preventive care and there's an opportunity there. i also look at financials in the space where they have not
delivered things but as i mentioned on profit margin there's companies that have done very well given the supply chain issues since the pandemic began so that's where my focus is going forward into 2022 and see how the quarter -- >> president biden set to sign the bipartisan infrastructure bill into law. seema mody looks at the stocks that could be big winners from that spending. >> the market is trying to see if it's a sell the news environment. in anticipation of the bill all seen as beneficiaries of the billion allocated to roads and bridge just honeywell and johnson control seen as winners. and then the billion spent on charging stations and already sent shares of blink up 50%.
this signing ceremony is just the first step the timing will be key and expected to take months if not years and why companies are -- investors lean on the companies to disclose the orders as they come in to understand when it hits the bottom line. >> seema, thank you so much. jason, to what extent is this priced in? >> yeah. so when i think about infrastructure i think infrastructure has been priced in for quite sometime and thinking about infrastructure signing day which is today i do think that spending is going to take sometime to get into the system over ten years i think a lot of it is priced in already but materials have done well recently up 25% year to date and up close to 6% month to date but i think it's priced in at this point. >> there's also the question of
how it gets dispersed and implemented why barry knapp sent in a note on it that there was a journal story last week how much greater control the federal government has with dispersing the bill than the highway transportation bill and could be a problem because it could increase the probability of long -- >> making sure that there's procedures followed and everybody crosses every "t" and relatively slow and i think only in the most general way an investable moment for this and ev charging already run and part of this complete excitement already in the entire sector. >> what about media stocks >> yeah. i guess you'd have to figure out what that means. is it really going to move the
needle what does that mean subscriber wise very tough to filter that into the earnings models showing growth for the businesses. >> dollar tree is biggest winner up almost 14%. deutsche bank upgraded the stock from buy to hold and could rally more than 30%. leslie picker with the details of the new stake leslie >> yeah. they're about halfway there today on disclosure of the position and the firm built a stake of 10% which at today's levels worth almost $3 billion and that stake is investors that participated there have a 5-year lockup the founder of the firm will be focused on family dollar
acquired in 2015 but i'm told that the investor thinks a shoddy integration is to blame for its underperformance mantle ridge said in a statement that dollar tree is open to listening to input and looks forward to engage with mantle ridge. guys >> thank you doesn't this company have a history of activism? >> in the space. it was actually a contested acquisition that family dollar did. some shareholders not happy about that deal. the market really has been cat lized by the move. it just closed the gap entirely in the last couple weeks and base c basically at this point in the cycle probably taking something
like this. >> just hit a session low on the dow. all three major averages are lower with four minutes left hit crowd strike shares slammed today following a bearish call from morgan stanley saying competitive and pricing pressures could make share gains more difficult in 2022 jason, do you feel that this space is just run up too aggressively over the last year or two >> so i thinkcyber security is a very strong theme in the marketplace. palo alto is -- a number of names that have done very well this is a high beta story as interest rates start to move inflation with a hot print last week and to be expected. i don't think anyone thought we weren't going to get the names
but crowd strike could be susceptible here like other names and more of the call than anything else. >> it's a big move for an analyst call. >> yeah. saw a lot of big moves today oatly on fundamentals. on the downside of an earnings report it's brutal. >> a reason to get that extra downside is in initiation at a sell is not the way to go about it looking at the report it is saying the stock prices in like 40% top line growth as far as the eye can see. trading over time 20 times annual 2023 revenue and more competitive. i think there's action in the market where people ditch those names with high expectations, not a clearer path than before the sports betting names things like even uber and lyft
people don't feel that they come together fast enough to say you will help me through the end of the year. >> dow's now down 45 a mini selloff >> we backed off a bit a market on close sell imbalances not much to make if you look below the surface the volume split has been pretty much 50-50 the new york stock exchange volumes have been -- slightly positive weight. outperforming with nvidia and tesla dragging on things take a look. on a month to date basis 1 percentage outperforming why that's a turn and the volatility not much to see here low volatility day and in fact the past few days so this should
probably bleed lower there's a faction out there willing to buy protection against voluntatility. we are hovering very calmly below the record highs >> less than 1% below the record highs and less than 10 basis points below closing on friday slight declines across the board for the major averages all four including the russell just lower three big caps all down about 0.1% utilities the best performing sectors. about six sectors lower. we have seen the yields pick up today. the dollar continued the recent strength up half of 1% back knee the session highs and oil is flat gold slightly lower. as we approach the close we are
essentially flat off the session lows and high just a lackluster day on a monday s&p trying to go positive. high profile declines. tesla, uber, nvidia and amd. all down and not down enough to weigh down the major averages. s&p just turning positive into the close while the dow and nasdaq are just negative ♪ back to "closing bell. i'm sara eisen here with wilfred frost and mike santoli coming up, a top market strateg strategist on the biggest risk. jason at odyssey capital advisers with us mike, what's interesting today in the tech trade is tesla a big drag some of the biggest winners is
nvidia and facebook offset and the nasdaq down a bit. >> almost as if you wanted to keep the index steady and trade among them amazon and facebook meta somewhat laggards and only way to unify what's going on right there. selling the winners and picking up the laggards. tough to draw a theme but for the small cap underperformance today is something that it has broken out above that range that we were in for moths and giving back there and didn't come in brimming with risk appetite and wanting to add much exposure since we are high here. >> if you looked two decimal places how the s&p closed -- >> bang-on flat. >> that's right. why have we put three there? just so we cannot. >> wilfred is -- >> jpmorgan strategist with the
main risk facing investors are there big risks out there given 1% from the record highs >> we have got her there and sure will reconnect in a moment. jason, in terms of your preference for the cyclicals here does that require the gdp numbers, the macrodata continue to come in hot or regardless positive on them given the valuation discounts? >> yeah. it is a two-prong story. the discount is an important point but i also believe in just kind of the expansion, the growth expansion there's opportunity in the cyclicals in terms of earnings growth versus the growth oriented sectors of the market so yeah. i like financials.
i like health care you know i like some retail names which i think there eons opportunities here and which has names that haven't run quite as much as the others in the growth sectors yeah that's the stance now and see how the rest of the quarter plays out and then 2022. >> gabrielle, i think we have your audio back. you are coming out making a stand on active versus passive investing. >> that's right. coming out of 2008 we had good expectations for future returns. 7.5% we expected over a 10-year window this is a very different cycle we moved through the market cycle very quickly and starting with expensive equity and bond market valuations and project 4.3% expected returns over did
next decade. to us that says last cycle is beta this is the alpha. passive alone is not going to cut it we need to take advantage. we need to add to the returns and get closer to a 6%, 7% return which is what investors needed. >> should people try to be more aboutive about the geographic exposure, as well? >> absolutely. part of the valuation differences we see are between regions. so we still have about a 20-year discount between international markets and the u.s. market and this is even compared to normal discounts that we have for these less quality markets so i think a big component is exactly overweighting other regions of europe and japan and new asset
markets like china which we are also taking a stand on and saying that it is going to be a very big growth piece of portfolios over the next decade both on the equity and the bond side. >> why now for china >> first you have a much better entry point in terms of valuations than back in february because of the 30% plus correction that we've had this year and because beneath all the headlines this year china continues to develop and open up its capital markets and you have some really interesting themes there weighted to the new china around technological innovation, the growth of the middle class which is only halfway through and china's decarbonization efforts. >> mike, pivoting back to the market action, is it easier to
find speculative signs or reasons to remain optimistic >> it is easy to find speculative stuff going on ev stuff almost everything going on in crypto so yeah. there's plenty happening and probably most influential on the broad market is the appetite for speculative call options that's heavy. that being said we have gone through a few waves in the last year or so and when they have inflated and retreated it is not necessarily been make or break for the overall market and i feel like the average stock is tracking with earnings earnings up huge this year estimates still seem too low with the solid credit conditions this makes sense and the market is acting very much the way it did in 2017 with this type of environment but i do -- i am
nervous that large speck laters are getting aggressive and maybe we get into the next year before that matters and you getz a reckoning. >> i'm curious what you think of the china call we have president xi and president biden set to speak tonight for the first time in a while and the sort of prevailing narrative around china is stay away now that xi is going to be in power even longer. do you think -- are you bullish on valuations and growth >> yeah. so respectfully i disagree with the call there i think for me just the regulatory environment over in china is just hard for me. i agree that's value in the names but just the regulatory environment for me makes it tough so we've kind of stayed
away. >> you are not afraid of that? >> i think this is business as usual for investing in china and goes through the reform cycles which can drive volatility this happens every three years or so. investors get comfortable with the direction and then much closer to that point now that we are almost a year in and what we have to do is look at the pieces of a puzzle and to realize what china is trying to do is engineer high quality growth as well as trying to balance priorities of common prosperity and decarbonization and actually positive and supportive for consumer, technological and decarbonization themes. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you. before we let you go, jason, you have a final trade idea for us underperformer i would say
lately. >> yeah. so i really like paypal here a great covid winner why the partnership with amazon is a big deal the payment industry is still intact their volumes up 26% venmo up 36% a strong quarter the guidance was light stay long paypal i like the name here. >> jason, thank you so much for joining us. >> good to see you. we are just getting started on the second hour of "closing bell." rivian shares up nearly 90% and tesla shares lower as wath damodaran on the stocks. >> qualltrics announcing a partnership and he will discuss in an interview. we are back in a couple.
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welcome back tesla closing down by 2% today while rivian surged finishing higher by 15%. tesla stock snapped a win streak last week that rivian went public let's bring in the nyu stern school of business professor great to seeyou as always, aswath start with tesla and reading the notes you shared with us you think it's fair that the value increased significantly over the last 18 months >> absolutely. covid was very kind to companies of young, fast growing and flexible and building a company perfect winner from covid would be tesla so i think it's quite clear that tesla is one of the winners of covid that said at a trillion dollars you're pricing in incredible
success into the market cap. >> for sure. though i guess we are also aware that traditional valuation metrics never really applied to that company and as long as the news flow and the headlines coming from the company continue to come out in the right direction that this is more of a momentum stock than a valuation stock? >> let me correct you there. pricing metrics have nevada worked so use pe ratios tesla looks expensive but the question is how big do you think the story will get i think the reality is that if you believe that tesla is fairly valued you believe that tesla can sell at a trillion dollars and revenues rise to a trillion in a decade and margins 16 pat16% and they have to make it agreatest company and some people are true believers but at the same time
tesla is a momentum stock with nothing to do with that. it is elon musk's decision to sell stock that might be drives what's happening in a day-to-day basis. how much is the value is the question. >> how about rivian up 15% today? up every day since going public. this is a $130 billion stock that doesn't have sales. so how do you do valuation math there? >> if i were a conspiracy minded person i would say musk invented rivian to make tesla look cheap. the fact is that relative to rivian every company is cheap. i'm trying to get my head a wrapped around how to justify this number. two things to think of one is in addition to being in the electric car business which right now is a boost it is the amazon stake there's a magic of having amazon involved in the what ento push
up the market cap. the other is a fear of missing out for those people that look at tesla saying i wish i bought it ten years ago rivian seems to be the next train leaving the station. i think that's a mistake and doesn't stop investors >> do you think that people are assuming that all of these two ev stocks will take 100% of auto market share in the next five or ten years or simply that any ev maker to benefit and the traditional names to benefit too? it's odd to see it working and not hinder the rivals at the same time. >> my fear is building 150% of market share that's my real concern believing that every car sold will be an electric car and
traditi traditional automakers will disappear. who's buying all the cars? you are almost building in the expectation to buy twice as many cars ten years from now as now and bringing in automated driving it should be pushing in other direction and need fewer cars so i think there's a big market delusion driving the pricing and people are not thinking through whether these companies can all coexist even if the market is as successful as they think it will be. >> my final question related to this is how much valuations matter in this environment where you have everything surging from cryptocurrencies to nfts to baseball cards to pokemon cards. this is the kind of buy everything environment and whether it is the stimulus, monetary and fiscal or changes in the economy from covid, when
do you think valuations will matter again >> i think you are right it is a pricing market a traders market not an investor's market this is not new and true as long as markets have been around that there are times when pricing dominates the process. right now we are in that phase when will valuations matter again? the question is if we knew the answer we could trade on it. but i think that the reality is that some point in time, i call a bar mitsvah moment where people wake up and say where are the justifications it is almost always happened and never been able to figure out what caused it to happen but the correction will happen in time but i don't think you can make money betting on the correction. >> thank you for joining us. always good to get your take from nyu. >> thank you. up next bridgewater director
of investment research on the summit between president xi and president biden and how the meeting could affect the big chinese internet companies when "closing bell" comes right back. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so... ...glad we did this. [kid plays drums] life is for living. let's partner for all of it. i'm so glad we did this. edward jones [energetic music throughout] what's strong with me? i'm so glad we did this.
we want to take you straight to washington, d.c. where president biden is about to sign the bipartisan infrastructure bill into law more than $1 trillion let's listen in. >> great speech. >> we were wondering when you were going to stop. >> i know what you mean. i did stop folks, i'm going to get you each a pen but there's 30 of you up here >> vice president, please. >> thank you >> all right >> okay. here we go >> yeah. [ applause ] >> bravo
>> thank you, thank you, thank you. >> good job. >> the president just signing the infrastructure bill there and speaker pelosi, senator schumer in the foreground and late addition there in the lineup vice president kamala harris of note there slipping in to be at the front of the photographs, as well kayla tausche, we have got to the moment and the bill is signed. >> reporter: and it seemed elusive over the course of this year there were many fits and starts throughout these negotiations but president biden today flanked by the cabinet, members of each party on either side of the aisle, joining him and many business groups and organized unions groups to tout the accomplishment the first to deliver on a major piece of infrastructure spending with bipartisan support and the
second to approach negotiations with allies and adversaries from domestic strength. there is no coincidence that the president is getting on the phone for that virtual bir lateral meeting with president xi of china this evening this is what the administration is talking about saying that it wants to prove to get the domestic house in order to show countries like china to invest in itself and compete on a world stage and do so fairly so expect this bill right here and this $1.2 trillion infrastructure investment to figure prominently in that conversation this evening. you are looking at members of the cabinet tasked with the hard part now, dispersing the funds to states and localities, turning $1.2 trillion in government spending into economic growth, jobs on the grounds, and shovels into the projects which we will see in
short order where they find them and who gets the funds >> yeah. looks like funding over five years. thank you. for more on what it means for investors and the economy rebecca patterson joins us how do you think about the impact to growth, not knowing whether it takes months or years for the projects to start >> yeah. years. so the net increase in government spending here is probably closer to $540 billion. what we have seen is we have looked at targeted fiscal spending in the u.s. and other countries, things like the highway bill, in the 1950s, defense spending in the '80s, the stocks that get effected the most by the bill tend to see a positive flywheel effect because the stimulus starts and continues for years and the
outperformance can last even after the initial pop so this is going to be an opportunity that investors can take advantage of looking out ahead. >> what act implications of inflation which is sensitive for the biden administration to deal with coming to trillions of dollars of spending. >> absolutely. that inflation is the thing we have been highlighting we have the urs innovation and come pettiveness act going through congress i believe $250 billion and then the reconciliation bill what's striking is all this money and credit is coming in to an economy that's already incredibly robust. demand shock in the tightest labor market in decades and the median spending is fixed supply means inflation so what can policymakers do? we do as investors is position
both for inflation that's higher than expected but also the possibility that the fed to play catch up so looking for higher u.s. treasury yields and holding bonds and looking for companies to pass through the higher costs so we are trying to protect ourselves and not sure how much of each we get. >> is there now a higher chance that the fed does have to play catch up than otherwise? i don't know how we define that but lets's say hike rates in q1 next year? >> the fed so far has tried to keep tapering the asset rates distinct and separate and so the market right now pricing in two hikes next year in line with that thinking and we'll have to watch what chairman powell and the fmoc says. i think they want to preserve
optionality as much as possible. the policy responses have been extraordinary and exactly how long does inflation stay up here depends in part on how quickly labor comes back janet yellen thinks inflation could come back if people come back to the labor market quickly. our view is the labor supply is so incredibly tight wages have to be the thing that pulls people back boo the market so you have higher wages, higher rents. those things are drivers of inflation and we think that there's a decent probability that the fed has to tighten faster over the course of '22, '23, so on, assuming more tightening is a good way to position right now. >> rebecca, thank you so much for joining us. >> my pleasure. tonight after this
infrastructure event president biden slated hold a virtual summit with chinese president xi g jinping. hey, d >> hey, wilf this is a group that's under pressure amid the china's president crackdown and the etf of chinese internet names bounced back by nearly 8% so a thawing of relations could keep it going especially if you add it to some of the other signs of progress there was the release of huawei cfo in canada. the administration's decision to hold off on new tariffs and chinese regulators looking at rule changes to block chinese companies to list overseas there's also xi's crackdown on
the tech sector. it is unlikely that the talks to impact beijing's broader objectives coming to the domestic tech giants most of the biggest chinese tech names are ending the session weaker alibaba was higher and also fallen into negative territory back to you. >> thank you we await conclusions from the summit tonight very closely. 13 f filings coming out and david tepper let's get to leslie picker on those. >> hey, wilf that rush at the deadline today for managers to disclose the positions as of the end of the quarter in september for david tepper cut the stake in amazon by 44% at the end of the quarter. up nearly doubled stake in macy's to hold $159 million. and hafled the stake in micron
to $200 million. also interestingly we were digging through core of x filings and disclosing a new put position on the ark innovation etf and we'll dig through these. berkshire hathaway filings just came out back over to you. >> leslie, thank you always interesting to chew on these. we don't know how old they are but cutting the stake in amazon for tepper >> in general profit taking in big tech now tech had a huge run into early september. in the springhe said you buy the nasdaq if you don't think rates get -- make new highs and the rest so i think that feels like kind of a rebalancing and a profit taking move and macy's a
special situation and act better as a stock and then energy another interesting reflation type trade. >> to cussing on the virtual summit tonight between xi and biden, there's quite a lot of possibility to thaw the thoughts to chinese stocks and the global supply chains and the factors probably ease -- >> yes i think it's a quiet area. people have assumed that this kind of i guess you would say cool war on trade is this status quo for a while. i think the direction of surprise is probably in a friendlier direction and maybe does help trade related sectors. >> a pop for qualtrics
welcome back it is time for a cnbc news update with shep smith >> thanks. here's what's happening now. a mass shooting today in aurora, colorado police just said five teenagers between 14 and 17 have been shot in a city park happened this afternoon. all five said to be hospitalized at this hour we have not gotten an update on the conditions police say the suspect is still on the loose kyle rittenhouse's lawyers are making the closing arguments right now in a wisconsin courtroom. rittenhouse of course charged with gunning down two men and wounding a third with an ar-15 during protests in kenosha last summer prosecutors told the jury in their closing arguments that rittenhouse provoked the encounters that night and cannot hide behind self defense the defense team fired back at the top of closing saying that the prosecution lied and misrepresented the evidence. the jury is expected to get the
case today the american journalist danny fen ster is on the way home from myanmar, freed with the former ambassador bill richardson saying he negotiated. danny was convicted on several charges including disseminatding evidence that could be harmful to the military. he said he is healthy and happy to be headed home. tonight dr. fauci joins us life to talk about the spike in covid cases in the country and the guidelines for safe holiday gatherings that's tonight on "the news. back to you. >> all right we look forward to it. thank you. shares of experience management software company qualtrics getting a pop in after hours trading after announcing a new deal to expand the
partnership with amazon web services joining us now to discuss the deal is zig serafin, qualtrics ceo. welcome to the show. >> sara, thank you for having me. >> a lot of people might not be familiar with the company. you basically ipo'd this year. what is experience management software what do you do for your customers that's providing such strong growth ems in subscription >> as you know speexperiences a vital to the way that decisions are made and what bros decide what company to work for and we have a system to tune in to what's on people's minds and be able to bet every understand how do you better understand the consumer interest and businesses how do you connect with the employees and the way to be engaged with the company they work for and take action on that
at scale >> what about the aws partnership? where does that fit in >> we are really excited about this announcement. as you know some of the best companies in the world are using qualtrics. u.p.s., bmw and nba. they're investing in experience managements but amazon is now using qualtrics across their business to listen and understand how they do with the experiences they deliver and the way they take action and all in on qualtrics every employee at amazon has access to qualtrics which is massive and amazon understands and get the fact that great experiences are the currency of modern business. and the most respected companies are using qualtrics. >> so this is not just with aws, across all of amazon's business lines? >> that's correct. yes. across a variety ofways in
which the customer as well as the ways that the employees are engaging with the way they do work and serving amazon's ku hers. >> talk about what you're finding in this experience management, whether you work for companies on trying to retain employees or customers. >> look. there's a massive shift right now which is how organizations engage and the stakes have probably never been higher for company just the leaders i talk to around the world, the differentiation is the experience created for the customer and employee why there's a war on talent and competition for consumers. there's 4.4 million people that quit the jobs just in september. right? about 60% of customers that say that they'll take the business elsewhere just based on if there's a poor customer
experience, bad service. there's data that says $1.9 trillion at risk just in the u.s. so the experiences that companies are delivering are absolutely vital to the way this people are competing and winning and listening and tuning in and the way that you end up taking action and how it informs how you build the products and engage employees are key and driving this business. 49% growth just in q3 this year in the subscription revenue. >> tell us about how you're helping organizations with the vaccine mandates. >> what's happening is health and safety and well being are now becoming a critical part of the employee experience and employers have a new level of responsibility a third of all unvaccinated people said they would lie about the status and so many employees
they're evaluating new jobs and safety is going a long way and creating a smooth experience about how to ensure the safety of employees but how to tune in to to what people expect coming to work. digital or coming into the workforce. people rewrite the playbooks on how to do this and in the new face of the vaccination we have the testing manager to be able to securely manage vaccination status for all employees we have sintegrated that system with a system so the customer cans securely validate vaccination records right from the platform we have had significant demand just in recent weeks over 200 organizations that have turned on the use of system as things change policy wise and neumann dates come out and they can best
accommodate the needs of the workforce. >> market like it is announcement stock up 11% after hours or at least what you are talking about. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. meanwhile berkshire's 13fs are out. let's get back to leslie picker. >> lots of moves this quarter. this is of course as of the end of the third quarter the positions may have changed since. the firm boosting the stake in chevron. also some significant pairing back in the health care sector down by 30% to hold about $1.5 billion. sold out of the merck position completely and paired back the stake by 16% in bristol myers squibb and did maintain the take in teva and took a new stake in
royalty pharma which is trading higher on that news in the after hour today they also took a new stake in floor and decor but that stake is quite small other moves for the quarter small trim in visa and masterkard and u.s. bank corp. guys >> leslie, thank you. up next, mike back to look at one reason why wall street might be cool with the hot inflation data released. roblox shares up more than 130% since going public in march. an analyst thinking the stock can rally about 30%. we'll talk about the investor day next
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welcome back let's get to mook for a look at inflation data. >> so many ways to slice this. one thing that this chart makes clear is that the main driver of these very hot inflation numbers is stuff durable goods annual rate. up around 7.5% price increases services higher inflation but nothing that's really out ochtd longer term range and clearly a reason that the market looks to say this is a pandemic effect. a massive pull forward of demand in goods and should go down next year you basically don't need to buy durable goods all that often so that's probably net positive
now how about the stocks of companies that can or can't raise the prices it is a very common theme. buy companies with pricing power. this is a goldman sachs relative performance chart of those companies with pricing power or historically able to raise prices why you see there's a pickup here and nothing all that pronounced and seemed like it's range bound. a couple reasons for that. it's got a lot of steady consumer brands in there not suited for a booming economy or hot oning run the other thing is most companies can raise prices and those that had pricing power don't necessarily get a scarcity premium for that ability to do so a couple things to think about. >> kind of argue for the transitory notion that it won't be a permanent kind of phenomenon we'll see. thank you. leveling up? roblox outperforming over six
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we want to talk about a very manying story story surrounding aic. bury diller against accusations from tinder co-founder sean rad. and they have alleged match group undervalued tinder and asking for $2 billion in damages. the deeft lawyer asked tinder about them being worth in excess of $10 billion and he later explained that it didn't make any sense saying when match group went public it was valued between 4.5 and $5 billion they said at time tinder was making $5 million and the rest were making $300 million basedoff that it would be impossible for tinder to be worth more than match. when they brought into evidence an email from 2015 between diller and jack welch who was a paid adviser for iac, in the email welch told diller was over
estimated greg blat and he was a cancer diller disagreed with welch. clearly something that iac investors are paying attention to. roblox gearing uch for investor day tomorrow. we'll see how they stack up enwh wee joined by an analyst this broker is your man. let's open your binders to page 188... uh carl, are there different planning options in here? options? plans we can build on our own, or with help from a financial consultant? like schwab does. uhhh... could we adjust our plan... ...yeah, like if we buy a new house? mmmm... and our son just started working. oh! do you offer a complimentary retirement plan for him? as in free? just like schwab. schwab! look forward to planning with schwab.
shares of roblox skyrocketing since the ipo back in march of this year and now the giant is gearing up for the investor day set for tomorrow. let's bring in john freeman from cfro research who has a buy rating on roblox great to see you thanks for joining us. i guess what is the key thing you're looking out for tomorrow and how much of a first mover advantage does this company have at the moment? >> i think it has a tremendous first mover advantage and first of all thank you very much for having me. and you know, i think the idea with roblox is it is unique so there is three real special parts of it. it is a social network so it has those sort of network effects, right. and it has sort of a platform in
development aspect to it and put those two together and people cooperate and have fun building games, sort of amateur game builders but then it has really compelling games on top of that flat form. and they paid out $130 billion in developer fees and there are an increasing number of developers making very compelling games so it is very compelling online game play. i don't know if any company that really has those three things like that together, especially with the sort of the open-ended opportunity that roblox has with things that are not entertainment, beyond looking at data visualization and these things so that is kind, that last part i would like to see tomorrow in the investor day and getting some hints and tell us a little bit more about how they might be looking at that. i know today they announced that they're going to be hitting the education market with games for
education, gamefying education which i think has been a long time coming and a lot of people have tried but i think these guys might have a good chance of fulfilling that. which, you know, really, a pretty significant upside potential going forward. >> but is facebook's complete focus on the metaverse and rebrand its name to reflect that including the billions of in spending they're going to do at threat to a roblox >> i don't think so. i mean, okay, of course there could be a threat. but i think roblox is probably, the more direct competitorsare the likes of minecraft, owned by microsoft the most similar comparable experience and platform, i think there are other higher end platforms that, you know, the creation engine, there is a number of those that are out there, some private, so i would look to those.
it is going to be a long haul for facebook to do what roblox has been doing for almost 20 years. they coined the phrase metaverse about what they were going to do almost 20 years ago now. and you have to be able -- a lot of that trial and error and making mistakes and fixing sh that is experience that you can't replicate even if your facebook with all of the money that you got that is a tough experience to -- and how to scale it and all kinds of different ins and outs of it. it is already built, it is an eco-system already feeding itself so -- >> we like the stock 134 is your target john, thanks for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> and tomorrow don't miss our interview with oak tree capitals howard marks and the ceo of chipotle right here on "closing bell" tomorrow afternoon and just about a minute or so, mike, besides those good interviews that we've got, what will you be watching as the
market didn't really give any directional signals today. >> not much. not really much today except in the excitable parts of the market if you look at what lucid did, if you look at the other really tangential ev stocks and som games were up today so we have a little bit of the -- the fun house stuff is going on alonged side and no it wasn't, it was a weird coded message that has to do with southpark it is ridiculous but it got the stock moving. and plus you talk about road blocks, it is $62 billion. i can't mef the companies that now have 50, 70, $90 billion market caps before they've proven much of what they are and it is showing you it is a market that is willing to bet big and willing to believe because you've already seen so many very flourishing upstarts that are already big. >> these are transformational. >> dollar up another half a
percent. >> when the 30 year clicked above 2% in yield it seemed like it gave a flood to the market and that is when we lost the morning gains. i don't know if the machines are programmed to trade off it for the moment. >> we are out of time here on "closing bell. thank you for watching "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market site in times square, this is "fast money. i'm courtney reagan in for melissa lee. tonight's line up. tonight on fast, hitting the like button. several stocks soaring today we'll break down what is behind the big moves. plus burning out cannabis stocks giving up early gains to close in the red. and coming up we'll speak with one of the biggest players in the space, true leaf joins us exclusively and later the crypto people, a rare copy of the u.s. constitution is about to hit the auction block. we'll tell you about the big bid