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tv   Squawk Box  CNBC  December 9, 2021 6:00am-9:00am EST

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plus starbucks workers in buffalo, new york will find out today if they'll become the first of the company's coffee shops to unionize. it's thursday, december 9, 2021, and "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. and yeah, three days in a row of gains. it wasn't just the dow, s&p and nasdaq you had the nasdaq 100 and the russell 2000 looking at the gains. it was the tech sector that led yesterday. that sector hitting a record close. but so did real estate but you see a pullback this morning. dow futures down about 91
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points, s&p down by 14, nasdaq off by 65 and we saw the huge gains yesterday after the pfizer news coming out suggesting that its three-vaccine regiment would be successful against the new covid variant but the gains did not hold we did end the day higher but the dow was only up by .1% at the end of the session the 20 year, at one point yesterday it was trading higher than the 30 year, may be there still, we'll look at the 20 year shortly but the 30 year trading at 1.807%. and the ten year above 1.5%. the two year yesterday was at the highest level since march of 2020, this morning higher at 0.686% andrew wait we have the 20 year there it is. 1.9, to still higher than the 30 year >> yes, it is. let's show you, we have some
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other news this morning and it's a doozy of a fine. italy's anti-trust regulator fining amazon $1.3 billion for harming competitors by favoring third party sellers. the company called the fine unjustified and will appeal. this has been an ongoing issue across europe and some people have questioned whether there should be or there are issues around this issue here in the united states. joe? instagram, big i think i have an account but it's really not mine i don't know how that works. but instagram's ceo testified for the first time before congress yesterday about the impact of the platform on young children and teens he told a senate subcommittee that he would not commit to permanently ending plans to
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create a version of the platform for kids under 13. with those plans currently on hold he said the initial goal of the product was to solve the problem of pre-teens wanting to use instagram. >> big problem. >> i know. how are we going to squeeze every dime out of that and get them buying these products early from our advertisers. and the difficulty of verifying age. he's the highest ranking employee of meta to testify since a former facebook employee released a trove of internal research documents to journalists including one that found a link between instagram and teens who reported suicidal thoughts shares of gamestop are sliding. the company reported a wider net loss, $105 million versus a $19 million loss last year however, gamestop said that revenue grew to $1.3 million
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thanks to expanded relationships with brands, including samsung, lg, inviz owe. the company's new leaders provided few details about the turn around strategy, which i don't know, we've been thinking it's -- you know, they must have a great one for what the stock has done i'm waiting to hear what it is they haven't really provided an outlook, have not answered questions on past earnings calls, several of them, including yesterday's. the ceo said the company is exploring emerging opportunities, including block chain and nfts. >> and crypto? >> and crypto. but i still -- i don't know. >> i just want to throw all the buzz words in. >> don't you think at this point you have some massive idea that you should be telling everybody about or you don't >> yeah. >> don't you think >> can you have meta avatars in the metaverse playing games for you? could you do that?
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i don't know i'm so confused -- >> yes. >> i see people getting married in the metaverse now could have been so much better looking as a groom, you know what i mean, if i could -- actually, i'm off topic. >> i wanted to go back to the meta stuff anyway. >> hurry up. >> i want to go back to the meta stuff anyway because any goodwill you might have built up saying we're going to hold off on the instagram for youngsters idea we're going to reconsider that, they did roll out some changes that i thought were good ones earlier this week, we talked about that, the idea of not allowing people to comment unless you follow them and they follow you but yeah, they -- i'm not going to say we're going to do this for forever, in fact, as soon as i get away from the cameras and the washington people, the regulators weighing down on us, we'll go back to those plans it kind of kills your goodwill you might have built up to that point. >> is it we're going to find a way to monitor it because
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they're doing it already, is that the rational? >> i don't know. >> the point that they would make, and i'm actually probably closer to that side, becky, just so you know, i think unfortunately there are -- >> it's going to happen. >> a lot of kids out there that are playing on these social media platforms to begin with. i wish they weren't. i wish that parents had a better handle of it, i wish there were better tools for parents to keep a handle on it, but, you know, i'm even finding my own kids seem to be -- this is everything i thought would never happen i thought i'd be able to keep an eye on everything, and it's hard >> so we're not going to miss out on that market >> no, no. if you don't build the tools to figure out how to deal with it in some way, then you sort of live in this wild west, which is sort of what's happening >> i think some of the tools they rolled out were good but i think -- >> they need to figure out how
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to get there. >> i'd love some oversight from some of the regulators who were trying for a while we had mark warner on yesterday, it seems like a bipartisan idea, you don't want kids exploited, bullied and beat up on in the name of profit that would be a good thing i would love to see congress do something about it instead of just talk about it >> as commercials they're begging. facebook, whatever you want to call it. they're really nice people that they got -- they sit down, you see them getting interviewed, trying to explain how hard it is to do everything perfectly to try to monitor good and bad and try and decide -- and how difficult it is. and the one guy they got, he seems so nice. it's such a hard -- kind of at the end they're appealing, we can't do this on our own we need guidance from regulators and then they had another really nice person saying overall person is interviewing them.
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but i'm watching and going, they're nice facebook is nice they're trying hard. >> the cynical view is they're asking for regulation because they know they're not going to get it. >> right. >> i think you can hold both ideas in your hand at the same time. >> i wouldn't take that cynical view i'd like to see regulators -- >> that's probably true. but the other truth is -- >> how would you like to try >> -- it is hard it's so hard. >> that's what i mean. >> it's hard to monitor the stuff, but it's something that it's hard to take that claim seriously when you're doing things to make sure you are engaging people for as long as possible and engaging teens and gaming the system to know if i do this, if if i create the metric set up so that if bad things happen to keep people on longer on the platform, maybe we flip those things to the top of the time line. you can say it's hard to monitor the stuff but when you are at the same time doing things that amplify that hate and the anger,
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then, you know, it's hard to take you seriously. >> so a wink and a nod we're overwhelmed. >> right it's not an open feed and everything falls through like water through a pipe they're manipulating it to make these things flow to the top of your feed. and they're doing things that amplify some of the bad things out there. i can appreciate that it's difficult but i don't take you seriously when you are doing things at the same time to manipulate that. >> and in the end, if bad things end up happening and you see any of these things, depression or anxiety or any increase, it's going to come back to haunt them and they're going to have problems so hopefully it's somewhat self-correcting. >> it's not just them. i agree it's not just them there are all of these platforms doing it, they just happen to be the biggest and most powerful and so you are going to draw the most attention, people are going to look at you to set the example and that's the case.
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>> for us, let's try to be positive and give people positive thoughts in the a-block, investable thoughts can we do that >> yes. >> let's be part of the solution. >> let's talk about a big tech company with a big stake in the world. apple winning a reprieve from a u.s. appeals court as part of the anti-trust battle with epic games. the court granted an appeal to delay for years, apple must communicate with users inside the apps about alternative payment methods that could prevent apple for taking up to 30%, now the change won't take place until the appeal has concluded which could take years. a major win if you read the language for apple given that effectively it's a permanent stay until the case is over and i think there was a view
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that perhaps this judge was going to be much more aggressive about pushing apple to change the in-app purchase policy almost immediately not only did they say they don't have to do it right this second, they may not have to do it, we ale see, forever potentially we'll watch shares of apple today for a potential milestone as well. bassed on the recent share count, apple would hit a $3 trillion valuation if it reaches $182 more on squawk this morning. tj max is going to require ploy eyes to get a booster shot before returning to office talking about vaccine mandates and the omicron variant. we'll talk about that later. and then cathie wood joins us live. a beautiful shot of times square
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with a 2-year price guarantee. give your business the gift of savings today. comcast business. powering possibilities. welcome back, everybody. late yesterday the fda authorized the first antibody cocktail for long-term prevention of covid-19 for people with weakened immune systems before they've been
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exposed to the virus to this point, it's only been approved for early treatment of infections or people after an exposure they gave the green light for the treatment for those 12 and over who are immunocompromised and may not get an adequate response from a covid vaccine. the cocktail is about 83% effective at preventing symptomatic disease when injected every six months. astrazeneca said it is testing the treatment against omicron variant and is optimistic about the efficacy this is what we've been talking about, the immunocompromised part of the population, 5 to 10% of the population, who even when the they get the vaccine their body is not able to mount the proper response. i know people with ms who have zero immune response after a while.
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so this is a big deal for cancer patients, a way of treating these things this would act in lieu of a vaccine where they'd be protected. and we know the antibodies work. >> they have a name, pandemic prisoners, people have used that you would be >> yeah. yesterday we looked at a couple of old pictures, it was me going somewhere i looked like i was in a hazmat suit. i was going to the supermarket, had a big mask on, gloves, my coat and i was bringing it home and wiping every item down that's what you would be doing if you had no immune system. we need a pill -- i don't think you can do a bill with monoc monoclonals. >> this is a big step, a big deal making sure people can get back out in society. >> that's good.
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a likely symbolic measure of this, the senate voted to block president biden's vaccine mandate on private employers, that bill faces a tough path in the house and president biden has threatened to veto it. the retailer parent of marshalls and maxx will require vaccines for those returning to the office and shelly is here, board member of verizon, opt, nordstrom, everything thank you for joining us this morning. what do you think, boosters for all? >> andrew, this is such a challenging time i think the fact that we see the omicron variant out there just shows us that covid and covid-related variants are here for a while, and we have to come up with strategies to enable us to work and live and operate safely >> so what are you going to do
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you're on the board of some very big companies. i'll put it to you straight, should verizon, one of the biggest employers in new york and the country, should they require boosters for everybody it would be a public service. >> verizon like many other companies out there are putting in place protocols and steps to encourage employees to be vaccinated they have a high percentage of employees vaccinated and as more information comes out and we look at boosters, et cetera, companies are going to be considering that as well. but there is not one answer that fits all companies and many of the protocols around covid are also very local. in areas where there are high vaccination rates and new cases are low, there's one way that people need to operate, but in areas there are hot spots and it's rampant they need to operate differently. so there is not one global answer for all companies they need to operate what fits
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with them and works within the local environments in which they operate. it's important to monitor. >> i'm going to push back on you. >> sure. >> on this idea that somehow that it works in one place and doesn't work in the other. it's very clear, the science is very clear at this point, there's no getting around the science. if you're boosted, you're in a better place than just about anything else. your chance of getting infection are lower, the chances of spreading it are lower, the chances of everything else are lower. i don't understand the idea -- look, there are going to be people who, for whatever reason, can't get vaccinated or can't get boosted for medical reasons and potentially religious reasons or otherwise beyond that, i really don't understand >> andrew, when companies are trying to operate and execute, all the companies i'm involved
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with are absolutely strongly encouraging and incentivizing employees to get vaccinated, giving them time and efforts, as we look at boosters, companies are going to be encouraging that as well. all i'm saying is i don't believe it's as simple as a company laying down all employees everywhere, no matter where you work, whether it's in an office, individually at home, et cetera, being able to mandate where people go and how they operate. we are encouraging, yes, we are doing everything we can to make things safe, when people aren't we're requiring testing on a regular basis as we go through, but as we're learning, we have to bring employees along to be able to -- to enable them to effectively interact with other people do i personally believe that vaccines and boosters are important and help, yes.
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am i vaccinated and boosted, yes. >> we're going to leave the conversation there it's a longer debate, as you know -- you know where i stand on this. i wish that corporations which have talked about their social responsibility to the company, their own employees, given all the things that companies seem to do around esg and everything else, you think the safety and health of the country and their own people would be paramount and for reasons that continue to, as you can tell, make me question it all. but thank you we hope to talk to you very, very soon. joe? >> coming up starbucks executives and workers are awaiting the results of f a union vote in buffalo, new york. later we'll talk about the week's market rally and optimism with tiaa ceo,og fgun. rererso we'll be right back.
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starbucks baristas in the buffalo, new york area vconclude yesterday on whether to unionize if the vote passes the three locations would be the first y unionized starbucks in the country. the workers supporting the union want better staffing, training and pay, and they want the right to better negotiate pay with the company itself
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star starbucks former executives have been urging those to vote against the union. that's got to be a dilemma on so many issues. the employees are saying that the company is listening and responding to their concerns becky? >> joe, you know, what's -- what's so fascinating though, about this particular effort in buffalo is, one, is it looks like it is -- if you really get into the details, it was a planned effort to unionize, meaning if you look at the people they hired in that store, the whole thing looks, appears to have been organized in a way that's -- >> by a manager in that store? how do you hire people in that store unless the manager is on board with it? that's what happened >> correct correct. correct. there is an element to which this doesn't appear to be a
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quote/unquote as grass roots as you might think. >> it's called organized labor, they organized the effort. i don't know why that's a bad thing, andrew. >> no. what's so interesting about it is here's a company on a relative basis to just about every other -- >> i know -- >> -- i don't know if you want to put them in that effort -- >> i know they're great. they don't need a union you're saying >> what i'm suggesting is -- >> what are you saying >> this union organization thinks if they can do it here and they can break, effectively -- break into starbucks here they're going to break across the country it's going to be interesting to see if that happens. >> i would think you would be for this it's weird we're on opposite sides again. the way union participation has dropped down to low levels historically, and to not -- not
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see this as a way to take back some power for the employee after, you know, employees have not benefitted as much as shareholders and corporate managers, it's just hard for me to understand how you have this -- >> arguing -- >> no. >> -- this idea about this -- >> i'm very sympathetic to employees at a lot of other companies -- i'm actually less -- >> but not at this one why should they not be able to un unionize >> it's the wrong company to go after in that regard on a relative basis. >> that's bad, andrew. i'm disappointed, frankly. >> my son-in-ister-in-law worker a while ago when she got out of school and things were -- the benefits were great. >> if there's certain things you're not happy with, i wouldn't like to be dealing with a lot of the public that come in
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and, you know, something is wrong with my latte -- i can see -- everybody should have the right to unionize, andrew if they decide. >> no, i didn't say they didn't have the right to unionize i'm saying if you dig underneath the sheets if you will, you'll see this is a much more con concerted effort -- >> that's why the company has done things like say, okay, it's not just this one store it's all stores in the buffalo areas -- >> but it's not. >> that's what they were trying to do. that's what the company was trying to get set up. >> right because it's not actually representative of even the buffalo area it's representative of one store that is organized for the single purpose of this issue. >> it's their prerogative. free country it's their prerogative now we have to get amazon and these other places all these places are trying to
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do their best, andrew, right but that doesn't mean. you know -- you saw what i was doing. i baited you with this with howard schultz saying that -- >> i know what you're doing. >> with howard saying all this virtue signaling for 20 years up in smoke when it's in my company itself poor howard, he's in between a rock and a hard place. >> i don't put it in the category of virtue signaling why do you say that? >> the previous, and not to come down on the proper side of this because it's his company and could impact the bot toltom line i think it's ironic. >> i think the truth is -- >> i'm enjoying it. >> the truth is you wouldn't be able to provide those services. >> i'm kind of enjoying this. >> i never thought i'd see the day, but that's why "squawk box" is so great. we switch to be in opposition. >> because we're all psycho
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paths. cbs health out with the outlook for the 2022 season. bertha coombs joins us with more that right now good morning, save us. >> reporter: good morning, cvs health says it sees adjusted earnings in the range of $8.30 for next year. the consensus is at $8.24 at this point it fasts revenues of 304 to $308 billion at the same time cvs slightly raising its outlook for the current year to at least $8 per share adjusted and 290 billion in sales that's the top end of their previous guidance. they're also doing a return to shareholders, boosting the dividend by 10%. here's the big shift they're going to resume share repurchases for the first time in four years, committing to $10 billion in buybacks over 2022 p the company prioritized paying down debt following the $69 billion deal to buy aetna,
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that deal closing in 2018. karen lynch kick off her first investor day as ceo at 8:00 a.m. eastern this morning covid vaccines and testing have certainly drive retail this year but lynch has talked about using cvs's pharmacies and clinics as a centerpiece of a real primary care initiative. that's going to be a big focus today, as well as the company's announcement last week that it is going to be closing more than 900 stores over the next three years. that's nearly 10% of the stores they have. don't miss my exclusive interview with karen lynch later today on "power lunch" following that investor day. >> looking forward to this, bertha the company's idea to close 10% of the stores, what's the reasoning behind that? i thought the stores were going to be the way to reach the community and reach the people out there and make sure you can provide that health care >> reporter: they're evaluating
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which stores, some will be more retail focused with just a pharmacy and some are going to be the health hubs that have a lot of primary care services it's not going to be in every store certainly when you look in certain communities, not every footprint will allow that. i think they're trying to prioritize as they try to build out the strategy. >> how much of this is because of the problems with these shoplifting things that aren't getting prosecuted in some places i know that's a problem for many of these stores and they have to lock a lot of stuff behind closed off areas at this point >> that is one of the big questions that i have, becky you walk into any of these drugstores now and you have to ask for assistance in order to get, you know, some shower wash or even tooth paste. >> re >> right not just razor blades anymore. >> reporter: it's an issue for a lot of the stores, not just the luxury stores hit up
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also the issue of staffing as they want to build out this different kind of store experience they, like everyone else, is experiencing a lot of competition for labor. >> we'll look forward to that interview this afternoon it sounds interesting. thanks, bertha >> when we come back, apple is less than $10 a share away from a $3 trillion market cap we'll talk to analyst dan ives straight ahead hey businesses! you all deserve something epic! so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? yep! every business deserves it... like ones that re-opened! hi, we have an appointment. and every new business that just opened! like aromatherapy rugs! i'll take one in blue please! it's not complicated. at&t is giving new and existing customers our best deals on every iphone, including up to $1000 off the epic iphone 13 pro.
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welcome back to "squawk box. take a look at this. shares of rent the runway are plunging after the first report since the company's i.p.o. in late october, posted a wider than expected loss in the third quarter, nearly doubling the loss from a year ago, active subscribers up year over year, but remain below pre-pandemic levels the market cap has been nearly cut in half since the i.p.o. jennifer hyman is going to be joining us we'll talk to her at 7:45 a.m.
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eastern time coming up when we return, tiaa ceo roger fuerguson on new ceo optimism "squawk box" coming right back
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♪ ♪ cases of anxiety in young adults are rising as experts warn of the effects on well-being caused by the pandemic.
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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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the latest reading on ceo confidence shows business leaders are not as confident as they were earlier this year. the survey in collaboration with the business council showed ceo confidence slipped further from an all-time high in the second quarter although ceos remain somewhat optimistic overall as we enter 2022. for details and more we're joined by roger ferguson, former ceo of tiaa and former vice chairman of the federal reserve. roger, this is pretty interesting. you would think at this point ceos would start to feel better. i know i do. what's going on? what do they see that i don't? >> i think they see what you do see, which is supply chain conditions continue to be problematic in many industries, i think the ability to hire workers is a widespread challenge across many sectors as well but importantly, becky, to your
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point, their future optimism has remained a little bit stronger than their assessment of current conditions so i think they're recognizing they have work to do, they have not lost faith altogether and the things they're worried about are the things that you and this team report on almost a daily basis. >> the idea they're still pretty worried at this point and still having trouble hiring people and looking at real snarls in the supply chain i get all of that. is part of that kind of being beaten down, thinking this is going on a long time and people are tired? >> i think that's part of it i know when i was a ceo the expectation was we'd be back into the office almost full-time at this stage. and i think the active ceos on worried about these health questions. this survey came out a little bit before the omicron variant but that's got to wear on people at this stage.
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but i think some of this is many of us were hoping, expecting that we'd be further along in return to normality, and that's still not yet the case and at the end of the day, the buck stops at the ceo desk so she or he is confronting many of these challenges maybe in a prolonged fashion. >> the conventional wisdom at least recently has been the supply chain issues are peaking right around now, and things are going to get better from here. i will say in talking to some ceos and business leaders, it sounds like there are concerns that this could stretch for a very long time you're not talking about peaking and then dropping substantially. maybe you peak and then drag along at a plateau for a long time, into 2022, is that what you hear too >> exactly some of the survey results suggest that while things are not getting worse, they're getting better but very, very slowly and absolutely into the
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second, third, maybe fourth quarter of 2022 i'm starting to hear things are pretty snarled and it's going to take some time to get this unwrapped, unravelled so i'm hearing what you're hearing. indeed that may be playing intolinto some of these concerns that we're hearing. we're still optimistic, ceos are, but still less optimistic than before. >> people are telling me in many industries they're talking about 10% wage gains, 15% and some cases 20 or 25% wage gains and that stuff is sticky it doesn't go away what do they say specifically about wages and trying to find employees in terms of the expectations >> they say finding employees is still very difficult and they're talking about it being widespread not just in one business unit or another, but widespread the survey, when it comes to expectations for wage increases, i find it very interesting
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most of them are expecting some wage increases the bulk are in the 3 to 5% category but some expecting 5% or more, in our survey about 19% of ceos expect increases that are in excess of 5%. the other thing we're starting to see is this is building into pricing for end product. and we're starting to see just the beginning of something that we called a wage price spiral. and so this is something to watch very, very closely >> roger, let me ask you to put on your former fed hat as well what we're seeing is this what jay powell is seeing and does this explain the 180 he's done in the last couple of weeks in terms of thinking the fed has to act pretty aggressively? >> i think that is a large part of it. there had been, you know, in the economics and business profession, a little bit of a debate as to whether or not this was transitory or more permanent. i think the truth is it will
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resolve itself but take longer than people expected i think my former colleagues and friends at the fed are sensing exactly the same thing if you saw the minutes from the meeting, they sounded to me a little bit more hawkish in terms of some thinking that it may be time to speed up and then we had jay powell's testimony where he clearly focused in on inflation as being more of a clear and present danger and i think you add to that the most recent data, the non-farm payroll data which showed that labor markets are continuing to tighten. i think it's all pointing in a direction towards maybe a faster taper and maybe a slightly changed, somewhat more hawkish tone out of the leadership of the federal reserve. >> since we're talking about hiring, i have to ask you, and i think given 'cause you're a public figure dealt with a public company you were hired to be on the
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board of apollo and it appears you had to then step off because tiaa, your former employer, was trying to block you. can you tell us what happened? i think there were a lot of questions on wall street about that. >> i think there was a misreport in terms of trying to block. what i said to my friends at apollo and tiaa, i if he felt and feel strongly i have commitments to tiaa as a former ceo and fairly visible public figure as i thought about it, it was clear that both of these companies -- i have friends in both of them and wish them all well -- were positioning themselves as being in the retirement services business as i thought more and more about it, i thought this doesn't feel like the place i want to be, where i'm the vice chairman of one company, retirement services after stepping down from one company in retirement services i don't want to create any
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appearance of conflict or concern about loyalty, so to speak. there could have been ways to handle it, perhaps recusing myself at different things happening at apollo. you but the more i thought about it i thought one can't be vice chairman of a company and recuse yourself from important matters. so what i think is the right decision for myself and for both of these great companies where i have friends and where i have a great deal of admiration for what they're trying to do. but i want apollo to be able to pursue its strategy in retirement services broadly defined and i want tiaa to continue to pursue its goals of being the leader or a leader in retirement services. i didn't want either of them thinking my service and loyalties were divided so i think i got the right decision >> roger, i think the issue on
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inflation and the supply chain and how the fed is thinking about that, how the ceos are thinking about that is pretty important. and as it evolves we'd love to have you back to talk more about it you have a unique perspective into those two positions. >> thank you i'd thank you so much. i'd love to come back. apple nearing a 3 trillion market cap our next guest ss ere aythis a lot of room if stock he joins us next he joins us next >>g. do you stay down? or do you get up? >[announcer] and this fight is a long way from over, leonard is coming back. ♪♪ ♪♪
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. this keeps going up and the company is now within striking distance of a $3 trillion mark cap. joining us now to weigh in on what's going on, demand for the iphone, new products and the company at large is dan yves, managing director of red bush securities we have all been focused on chip shortages or across the board technology, companies like apple for auto companies are you saying behind that is demand that you might not be seeing because you can't measure it well. apple negotiated it better tan most but the demand behind the scenes is greater than the market is appreciating right now, dan? >> that's exactly. i think demand is outstripping supply by about 15% through iphone 13s that is the key. there is a lot of gyration through the supply chain this
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ultimately means the street is underestimating the growth in terms of this iphone 13, sort of the second step of the super cycle playing out. china remains strong i think the sum of the parts, this is not just 3 trillion. we can see this ultimately as 3.5 trillion this all plays out along with services >> talk about, dan, i see now the synergy between self-driving cars and apple glass so we will all be walking around living in the metaverse, who will drive our cars? we need self-driving cars, they will be running into buildings and what not next year is the year for these things >> that is the important thing there are chats for the first time, to almost confirm that apple glass now will come out in 2022 that's important because this is something that upwards in our opinion tens of thousands of neepg e engineers have been
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working on this. there is always concern about if it will come out we believe 2022 by summer, we do get the apple glass, the mixed arvr, has said we think price points can be about $1,000 this is key. it can add $20 per share for some of the parts for apple. not not the stock in our opinion. >> since it split, that's a lot, isn't it 173. will you make a case for the services business now, which unbeknownst, not unbeknownst, quietly it's a complete juggernaut what's that been worth >> i think that's a big part of the rerate even though investors have hated a trillion, despised the $2 trillion and really screaming potentially at $3 trillion we reached services, that's worth about $1.5 trillion. it will be about an 80 billion
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revenue stream that's a big part of the rerating in apple. when you look at the epic in terms of the data they got yesterday, it's now one to 2% revenue the street thought retension was lost now in the next few years does not come off the numbers i think you put this altogether, it's golden age now for apple who's renaissance of growth in cupertino. >> all right dan yves, thank you. we were talking to cathie wood about technology in a second like we did on apple good to have you on, thanks. >> thanks. when we come back, ark invest cathie wood innovation fund is badly lagging. check out ark's new fund the icher ctru, we will talk to her about that and the latest market moves next. off are watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc
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market moves next off are watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc her about that and the latest market moves next. off are watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc >> when it comes to autism, finding the right words can be tough. finding understanding doesn't have to be. together, we can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum. go to
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. futures are lower this morning after three straight days of gains for the markets. we'll get you up to speed on what's moving in the pre-market. plus, ark invest cathie wood
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goes on the recordant her top holdings and a new etf that tops the top trance parent companies. instagram testified before congress yesterday about the impact of its platform on young children and teens we will debate the company's policy and talk possible regulation as the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ good morning welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc i'm andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernon. let's show you the futures as it stands two-and-a-half hours before the market opposite we're in the red the dow looks like it will open down 300 points, nasdaq off 71 points the s&p 500 off right now about 16 points, joe >> andrew, let's get to dom chu.
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who what was your alarm setting this morning, dom? for what's in the -- seriously, what was it set? >> the world wide exchange shift when i work that show in place of robert sullivan my first alarm goes off at 2:15 a.m >> by the way, dom did "fast money" last night. >> becky, you were paying attention. >> i was, i saw you this morning on world wide exchange, wow, that's a quick turn. when do you sleep? >> whenover the boss lady laci o'toole says go do something, take that pill so i listen to laci, she tells me what to do. work "fast money" and turn around and work world wide exchange i'm here, i'm spry i got a couple cups of coffee in me right now to your point, joe, the early wake-up call did lend me to get a beat on early morning. so i do have three movers for you this morning that are worthy of note. only because they have very
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interesting story lines behind them first of all, you got hormel, it's an earnings driven story. they're up 2% right now. it's been an under performer on the staple side of things. but the company behind spam and hormel chili and diplontie moore stew 33% better than they were pre-pandemic that's helping to drive the hormel positivity. a check-up trade right now, keep it on hormel food and the consumer staple sector because of that particular move. also, watch what's happening with shares of apple we often talk about it again, katie huberty earlier at morgan stanley took her price target and overweight rating to a street high $200 per share we saw that on tuesday today she's with a note basically saying apple is her biggest large cap favorite call in 2022.
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so kind of adding on to some of those particular positivity i guess comments from tuesday, she's basically saying this time around that the recurring revenue stream for a companies like apple make them very attractive so she calls it her top i.t. hardware large cap pick for next year so watch apple shares. by the way, if it does get past that level, it does become a $3 trillion company keep that in mind. one on one watches of a smaller-cap stop evgo that $20 price target is driven if large part by this notion there will be wider fleet adoption and utilization of the electric charging stations in the network overall. we have harm em, guys we've got apple and we got evgo, the entire spectrum of market caps covered in this one.
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>> i'd say, it's below a billion, 800 million or so >> roughly $900 million at this point, yeah. >> thank you, dom chu. >> you got it, guys. it is the gift that keeps on giving the holiday edition of the cnbc all american economic survey is out. it is loaded with goodies, how much americans plan to spend and where they plan to spend it. our chief economic reporter steve leishman has the details steve, do tell. >> yeah, americans plan to spend with gusto this holiday season despite concerns about the economy, inflation and worries whether they will get their gifts on type. the cnbc all american survey finds individuals on average plan to spend $1004 on gifts, up 13% from last year pandemic levels it eclipsed the 2019 level before the pandemic. among the 800 americans that we surveyed throughout the nation, 15% saying they plan to spend
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more this year that's up from 11% in 2020 35% plan to spend less, down from 39% among, here are the top reasons. they have more cash in their pockets. they have more people to buy for. also because prices are higher higher prices and trouble paying bills. you see it on the other side, a top reason for those saying they will spend less as well. along with views of the economy overall, lower earnings, a desire to save making the list the survey was conducted after news of the omicron variant became pretty well public. it still found americans far less concerned than a year ago to go out in public, shop at malls and local stores, visit big cities or fly on planes. that could explain why the percentage of americans who say online is their top shopping destination felt dropped from 55% a year ago it's still above the level before the pandemic. that may be some initial evidence that some of the move to online shopping during
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pandemic could endure once this thing is over. worries about supply bottlenecks, they crept into the survey a quarter of the folks said they were concerned their gifts might not arrive on time 36% said, well, they shopped early to ensure santa's presents arrive in the knick of time. becky, this is the 15th annual holiday survey of the all american economic survey. >> i think you are right about some of the online gains from the pandemics sticking around. those people realize it's easier and once you are set up and your information is locked in, it's three clicks and it slow shows up in a lot of different places you can shop steve i heard this, this morning on world wide exchange i am kicking it around it's related, only tangental lip. they were talking about the savings rate in october according to federal reserve was 7.3% i thought, huh, that's good. it's a relatively high number. they said, of course, that's
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down from the height of the pandemic when it was a crazy 33%. i am just trying to figure out what's the optimal rate? what does the fed consider to be the optimal rate because you want people to save and have savings, if they are saving too much, they're not spending the economy goes to held hell. so what's a good rate? >> nobody knows, becky we've had numbers, i can't remember they eadjusted the whole series it used to be in the 4s and 5s i think 7 is an average or 6 is an average it was way higher. it came down look, this is one of those things that it cuts both ways. savings can come down because consumers are under stress and they're using their savings. they can also come down because people are optimistic about their earnings so it's a little hard to tell what the optimal rate is i always say that one shouldn't be so bold as to tell people what their optimal savings rate is people come one a number to the extent they had the financial ability, they get to a
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level that works for them. sometimes they are very secure about their earnings, they're like, i don't need to have this money saved for a rainy day. other times they're stressed and bringing it down the numbers in this survey are using debt to pay for christmas gifts was not that high. so it didn't speak to me of a lot of financial stress out there. >> i love you. i know you could answer anything your way thank you, steve >> a pleasure, becky >> okay. coming up right after the break, investing in the transparent companies, cathie wood has news just out we will speak to her after the break, about that and her holdings, let's get a check on the markets right now. with rein the red across the board the dow off 81 points. nasdaq off 63 points s&p 50off 0 15 points. we're coming back right after this
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our next guest almoston mus with some of the greatest growth and storied stocks that we've seen in repeat years she was there early. it's been a long-time guest on the show and we knew you when cathie wood ceo and cio of ark investments it's great to have you here this morning. >> it's great to be here, joe, thank you, thank you for
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inviting me. >> you are very welcome. i want to start and we'll talk about europe transparency etf in just a minute. but you are so associated with some of the greatest names in technology and some of the biggest i guess percentage gainers over the past three, four, five years it's almost synonymous with ark invest and cathie wood at this point. i guess my question at this point would be with interest rates perhaps finally moving in the opposite direction, does the whole thesis of seeing growth potential that goes out a number of years as interest rates move up, does it threaten that thesis and do you expect less robust returns? is that to be expected in a lot of your funds? >> well, i think the mark believes that, because our performance this year has been challenged by exactly that fears of inflation and interest rates picking up it's been very interesting to us
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that once chairman powell made the statement that perhaps inflation is not transitory, that long-term interest rates actually came down the bond market is telling us something here and the yield curve flattened. the bond market is telling us either that we're going into a recession next year because inventories aren't piling up or will pile up or that inflation is going to surprise on the low side of expectations and we would bet more on the latter although, we do believe there is an inventory issue growing out there. >> would you tell your investors that, would you emphasize maybe that past performance isn't necessarily guaranteed in the future, the type of outsized returns that some of your major holdings have delivered in the past is that fair to say? >> well, we always say that i
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will tell you, since february, through today, we have seen such a correction primarily in innovation stocks since the market has scaled to all-time highs, that based on our estimates and of course we could be wrong, our five-year compound annual rate of return expectation has gone from 15% at the peak in march to nearly 40% today. so from a doubling over five years to a quadrupling over five years. now we could be wrong, but i think our research is on innovation is the best in the business and i also believe that most investors and i know the most seasoned investors out there some of them, are saying that our stocks have been in bubble-like territory. we couldn't disagree more. because we are seeing five major innovation platforms involving 14 technologies, all moving into
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exponential growth trajectories simultaneously and they're converging if we're right that autonomous taxing networks are going to evolve during the next five-to-ten years, then that involves the convergence of three major platforms, robotics, energy storage and artificial intelligence and all of them are scaling dramatically what i like about this period is many, many people are saying, those stocks were in a bubble and they deserve to correct. that tells me, we are nowhere near above bull, in fact, quite the opposite has happened. all of the seeds for what is going on right now were planted in the 20 years that ended in the bubble they've terminated for the last 20, 30, almost 40 years. now they're about to flourish and people are running away. they ran towards them way too soon during the tech and
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telteleco bubble we are here and as a portfolio manager i like that backdrop. >> i find it fascinating i have been approaching it from two sides, that is rates probably are headed up some of these innovations are going to take years to come to fruition so you won't see near term earnings, you won't see any of that maybe but to get in on these things at this point, if innovation is going to continue the time that it takes to shrink i'm a fan in singularity and everything else the time dielation for quantity up leaps in technology is getting smaller by the year. so you may have to pay up because it's going to happen much faster than people think. we seen that in a lot of stocks you have been already. i hate to say it may be different this time.
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because it never is. but i don't know whether you need to worry about multiple contraction when are you at the forefront of theseinnovations. >> it makes sense. there is one other assumption remake when we are talking about valuations we assume massive multiple compression down to fang-like multiples in five years in our five-year projections. so we're already assuming multiple contractions to be conservative do we think the stocks in our portfolio and companies that underline them will be as mature as the fangs in five years >> no. we're being conservative very conservative. most because of where we are today and the pe ratios, many think we are in nose bleed territory. what they don't understand is we assume massive multiple compression. i won't say we assume it either. because interest rates are going
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up in fact, the convergence between and among the five major technologies, dna sequencing, robotics, energy storage, artificial intelligence and blockchain technology, that convergence is going to be so massively deflationary that we actually think interest rates will remain surprisingly low >> but i'm back to now looking at the other side, it just, it doesn't seem like it's always going to, who, the most beloved growth stocks, put them in an etf. assume they will be great returns and become iconic, which you have done. let me ask you about crypto, which there is a piece out i think msnbc even talked to money managers and that is ripe in 75% of those polled that's ripe for a major correction or a major letting
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out of a lot of air in that sector does that sound like consensus, to go the other way or not >> yes, i believe it is. i think institutions are moving in and right now crypto of any sort, they're starting with bitcoin and ether. crypto of any sort is a di diminmus this is a new asset class with correlations very different compared to other asset classes, in fact, they did a study on this and you found -- and we dit it with bitcoin, the closest correlation among to other assets was real estate so institutional managers have to look at new asset classes that are evolving, that have low
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correlationles that's the key to diversification and is the holy grail in terms of asset allocations. so we think that the move actually, by institutions, into bitcoin if we were to choose bitcoin, that seems to be their first stop could add $3500,000 to bitcoin's price if they moved into the tune of roughly 5% overtime >> can you talk about i guess we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about tesla or twitter or your other holdings can you opine what you think about elon muck's recent comments about the build back better bill. a lot of bs. you can comment on that and twitter? >> i tends to agree with elon musk i think more people understand now that the electric age is here and so tesla is being rewarded
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accordingly. it has the highest market share out there. it has even now four barriers to entry other companies are having difficulty overcoming, especially when it comes to battery technology and artificial intelligence, which will lead to autonomous. that's now where tesla is under valued you have to assume that the autonomous strategy is going to work we assume in our $3,000 forecast that there is a 50% chance that that it's autonomous strategy is going to play out. and our confidence is beginning to increase now that the pilot test is taking place you've got devoted tesla owners really identifying with corner cases that are causing problems for full self driving. so we're pretty excited about that even it's willic trick strategy
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should take the stock much higher than it is right now. but we are gratified to see that others are beginning to understand this story and that tesla is acting a little more fang-like than it ever has. >> how about twitter you got to buy that and i guess not watch it every day, pr probably a lot of headwind? >> we love so the new ceo we think had been working with jack closely on some of the new monetization strategies we think tipping will be one of those. but there is asleeper in twitter that we think most people don't understand we've moved into an age of nfts, non-fundable tokens. they will need verification platform nfts are all about scarcity and verification is testimony to
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scarcity so i think twitter might play a bigger role in that realm and then, well, the main reason we own it, we use it prolifically as you do as well, joe, and what we're seeing is that this platform which used to be dominated by 'tweens, teens and celebrities in 2012 when we first developed our ecosystem, has now evolved to knowledge workers and we find it essential to engage with the communities we are researching and actually to become a part of those communities. this is a very powerful social network and if you are talking knowledge workers, you are talking about one of the premier demographic profiles out there so we think from an advertising point of view, you seen advertising turn around on twitter. we think that's going to continue and we think more and more users luns how essential this tool is to knowledge
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workers. >> we all want to be transparent. i guess. i don't know sometimes i don't feel like being transparent. but is there definitely a correlation between trance parentscy and stock performance and i guess that's the rational behind this new etf? can you explain that >> yes, so paul pagnato, ceo of transparency invest, after the '08/'09 crisis began to study this phenom none of course, '08/'09 was about the lack of transparency he did it on which evaluates which are the 100 most transparent companies in the world so the etf is ctru ktru, has a nice ring there. you know transparency has for
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ark has been bolden. we are able to have dialogues with our clients and perspective clients and anyone about innovation we had more come back to us in terms of innovation at times than we have put out there as you know, which give away our research we are radically transparent in giving away our research and disclosing holdings every day as all etfs have to do and disclosing our trades. it has accrued to our benefit. in many ways, ark invest has gone viral as a brand because we're willing to share and engage with our client's, prospective clients, anyone, in terms of educating them about innovation the return from transparency has been huge for us >> i want to have you back soon. thank you so much.
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in the interest -- i have to go to the wrathroom so bad. i got to go. so, thank you, in the interest of transparency, but i'm out of here, thanks, becky. >> you said you were transpose animals i almost fell off my chair. i know you are every action. you are transparent. he's gone. we know where he s.. still to dom on "squawk box" this morning, we will break down yesterday's testimony from instagram cea adam mosseri and the user policy when it comes to kids represent the runway under pressure after results disappointed the street. down about 10% right now we will be speaking to ceo jennifer hyman in just a bit "squawk box" will be right back. don't be shy, now. i like that prime cut.
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welcome back to "squawk box. we want to getyou caught up with the corporate stories of the morning. gamestop reporting its losses widened in the fiscal third quarter. the company reported its net loss grew to $105 or 1.39 per share from a loss of 18.8 million or 29 cents per share a year earlier it was fined for using market dominance, regulators said they had harm in the ecommerce logistics service including they leveraged to encourage sellers on amazon fulfillment by amazon. amazon plans to appeal that. we will be repealing on a major milestone, apple hit a $3
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trillion valuation if it reaches $182.86. check on the shares, we're at 134. lawmakers urging instagram to better protect children. the company saying it is a positive force in young people's lives. we will debate the company's xoils policies and if it is keeping people safe. "squawk box" is back right after this this >>lad we did this. [kid plays drums] life is for living. let's partner for all of it. i'm so glad we did this. edward jones
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. instagram top executive adam mosseri testified before the senate yesterday calling for the creation of an industry group to develop a plan to protect youth online instagram announced new safety features, questions remain what would be the most effective way to police social media jonathan green blat is the ceo and national director. i know you have a lot of thoughts about tech regulation in general today let's focus on children. this is an area where democrats and republicans seem to agree on a lot of points. it's kind of surprising not more has been done to this point? what did you think of the testimony yesterday? >> look, i think the testimony yesterday was quite revealing. facebook around meta as you
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talked about in the previous hour claim they want regulation. it's seems cynical when they are simply unwilling to make the changes today that would require any government intervention that can make the platform safer for children all children. at the adl, we found literally just yesterday that with just a few key strokes minors can easily access extremists and white supremacist information all over instagram and there was another study earlier this week that found minors as young as 13 easily connecting with drug dealers on instagram, offering to sell them fentanyl. so it doesn't require action by the u.s. senate. it doesn't require action by the u.s. house of representatives. it requires one man, mark zuckerberg, to finally decide that he wants to put people over profits. the things we're talking about actually, becky, they're not that hard at all
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the company could make changes today to make it safer for minors and honestly more secure for users of all ages. >> investor and venture capitalist kevin o'leary is with us, too. i don't know if you heard the top of that i know we were having trouble trying to get your feed working. but just this idea that adam mosseri says they would like an industry group looking at protecting children. this shan area where republicans and democrats agree more needs to be done what do you think needs to be done in the interest of children >> this is a -- look, it has been for eight years unsolicited testimony. >> kevin, i'm sorry, we're not hear, your audio we're getting a lot of hits on it we will take a bhnt minute to to mix that in the meantime, i will go to
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jonathan on this, jonathan, this idea of an industry group is an interesting one. i know facebook said they would like to see regulation they will go back and forth saying everybody will spend more time on tiktok you can't really come after us and expect this to get changed maybe that's a valid point if you were to create changes, let's say regulators would come after. this what should it look like? and why hasn't anything been done to date >> that's a good question. in the point of creating watchdog group, there is such a group today, it's called common sense media. it's the largest child advocacy organization in the united states it has a very strong position on social media there are literally offered policy that facebook could
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accept what could happen right now? number one, regulators need to re-visit section 230 simply put to make the companies, facebook and other social media services liable for the content they publish. like every other media company in the world number two. >> okay. let's start on that point. let's do this. i know the counterpoint to that is this is really hard we were talking about that in the last hour. it's difficult when you got millions, if not billions of people posting things to go through and police all of it it's always protected by this is more the compuserve situation. we are just a bulletin board we're not the editor of this we are posting what's out there in the community. what's the argument you would take to that >> it's no doubt it's technically complicated. you know what else is complicated? building a company in 16 years that reaches 3 billion users and generates $30 billion in revenue every quarter. facebook or meta platforms is
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the most sophisticated advertisings platform in the history of capitalism. so, technically it would be complicate ltd i'm not trying to understate that but they have more resources, more everything nears and more innovation at their disposal than any other company on the planet earth so, look, there are things you can do right away, age verification the reality is you can make people verify their age in order to use the products. >> kids under 16 or 17 don't have a license >> maybe they shouldn't use the product. no natural log dictates we need to have certainly media intravenous until it's born. the reality is it's a commercial product. the reality like opioids or addictive substances, it is causing damage to minors it's harming society and the industry has
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demonstrated they're incapable of self regulation >> jonathan, i will say at some point, i'm pretty sympathetic to these arguments. i think something needs to be done however, i am also looking at who to blame maybe it's congress. by the way, if you want something done, regulating just facebook, instagram, is not going to do it if you really want these things taken care of, stop tip toeing around and do something. say what can and continent be done if you want to make sure they're not using algorithms to flow hate back to the top, then do it. >> i couldn't agree more no question, look, as someone who comes from the industry. i worked in silicon valley for years. i believe in self regulation since the companies haven't been able to be responsible in that way. are you right, regulate noors nd to act it's time to open processes and getting the ball rolling it needs to be more than
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facebook twitter is a degree as well the degree of toxicity is mind bending. tiktok is an area as well. they've taken strides but have so much more to do so it's an industry-wide problem. i would say to be real simple, number one, we need more transparency these companies should open up their data so that researchers and journalists and regulators can understand what's happening under the hood number two, algorithms shouldn't be allowed to amplify extreme im i don't think the founding fathers when they wrote the constitution and did freedom of speech intend to be freedom for algorithmles number three, finally, these companies should agree once and for all to work with adl other watchdogs to make the products better >> i think will you not get that laundry list i can say maybe you see something that looks a little more what the eu has done in terms of privacy if you want to operate in the eu
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and are you a tech company, you to do things that are hard and difficult. we've gone through some of these things i'm a big girl on twitter. go ahead, dish it out. i can take it. i don't want that amplified back to my children i don't want them to feel worse about themselves when everybody is doing things, saying nasty things, going at it. they're too young to handle it why not focus on achievable goals protecting minors. >> i couldn't agree more we know that facebook and instagram knew their products were harming children, knew that they were harming girls and their sense of self esteem this is like when big tobacco researched about their products, big oil suppressed research about the impacts of fossil fuels on the environment and what we now know that purdue pharma knew about opioids? becky, it's very similar we've seen this movie before and in order to get it under control, you are right, congress
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finally wants it to act to protect our children that really shouldn't be political. that really shouldn't be partisan to make sure minors aren't harmed by an adistrictive product, i think that's common sense. >> i think that's why overreach becomes a problem. when you go beyond watching what kids are doing an these platforms, you will get into areas of disagreement. there not be consensus why not focus on the very narrow years where you can get bipartisan support from both side to say this is common sense for kids let's see something that does that narrow down, don't expand and broaden. maybe look exactly what's happening to children and find out how we can do that on an industry-wide basis so nobody is penalized over anybody else. this is what you have to do. >> that would be an excellent start. they've done in in europe. the gdp levies serious fines on companies if they don't comply you can imagine a regulatory regime, the companies, we're not
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talking restricting free speech. we're not talking about restraining free expression. we're talking about protecting children and facing fines if you don't do it. i believe facebook and google and twitter and all the companies would fall in line very quickly, if we had that kind of regulatory clarity and those kind of penalties. >> i don't think you and i agree on everything. we can agree on this right here. i they lot of other people could too. thank you for your time. it's good to see you >> coming up, rent the runway down sharply in the pre market after reporting a wider than expected loss despite sales up 66 years year over year. ceo jennifer hyman will join us next right across the boardth on e s&p, nasdaq and dow jones. "squawk box" will be right back.
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. welcome back to "squawk box" this morning shares of rents the runway are under pressure after the first quarterly results despite strong survivor growth. joining us first on cnbc, ceo jennifer hyman good morning to you. revenue was up subscribers are up we're still not at pre-pandemic levels, investors are disappointed >> well, as you know, we can't control the stock price, but we have been focused on building a long-term business and we continue to execute against that
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strategy we're really excited about the significant increase in our margins this quarter the growth margin is at 34% due to economic subscription business and as you said, it's high growth and subscrapers, 70% year over year, revenue up 66% year over year. >> it does seem to be this focus on a path to probability whether that will ultimately be delayed. is it? >> well, we talked about how one of the major companies of our path to profitability is capital like acquisition models for our inventory. that grew to 56% of our rental products acquisition in 2021, which is up from 2020 and up significantly from 2019 so our consignment model as an example, we also talked about the fact that all of our consignment brands are coming back if 2022
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and increasing the penetration by 60% so that's really how we grow towards cash flow profitability. >> what are you seeing in terms of this new variant, concerns about delta that persists and how that is impacting the business >> yeah, so we've kind of seen this story before with delta variant. we were really pleased with our group in q2 and q3 and delta variant spread and peaked throughout the u.s we have not scene any impact of the new variant yet and we have been pleased our survivor growth in the first three-quarters of the year regrew 300% it shows in a year where covid is still impacting the full year we're certainly not back to normalized users our business needs to grow quarter over quarter >> and card of the bet for a lot of investors is when the world
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is back, as we're getting back, there will be this sort of peacocking moment where lots of people will go out and wear lots of different clothing. are you seeing that? how do you think that manifests itself over the next year? >> yeah, we're already seeing. even though we're not as engaged socially yet we're not back in the office, celebrating as much as we did pre-pandemic, we are seeing our apparel interests have changed so, women are focused on self expression in a way that i have never seen before with almost a decade in the industry they are wanting to wear more color more print, more boldness, more daring styles. that is fantastic for the business the cost in the club is about self expression it allows to you experiment without buyer's remorse. so if this is the level of self express we have in 2021, i think that is a great sign for when the world does do a bit more reopening in 2022 and 2023, an
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excellent tail wind for our business >> i know you can't control the stock price, but do i have to ask, you know, you came on our air at the time the company went public there were investors who piled in on the back of that the stock surprise now half of what it was then what do you tell them? >> well, i would say that it's a great time to buy. i mean the business is doing fantastically. not am have we been recovering, but we have been recovering in a business that is much more profitable than it was in 2019 our business has grown in profitability by 20 points since 2019 that's because we have substantially changed the margins of our subscription program and we've changed how we acquire our rental product to these methods. the units of our business are
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strong we are seeing resiliency and the tailwinds that have built our business which is really the focus on making more environmentally-conscious choices, less focus on ownership and more on spending your money on experiences and access, those things have never been more powerful >> jennifer, just to clarify one thing, you say it was more profitable at least by my math, the revenue of $59 million at a loss of 5.6 million on the basis of an adjusted ebitda number is that not right? >> reporter: so, approximately half of our net losses in q3 were one time and primarily non-cash items related to our ipo. if you look at our gross margins, our gross margins are up 20 points from 2019 >> okay. jennifer, great to see you we do look forward to your progress it is a nas fating story thank you so much. >> thank you so much >> thanks, andrew, coming up,
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the biggest pre-market movers and the top stocks to watch. the futures no longer down triple digits, close, nasdaq down 53, good day yesterday. we're coming right back, plus brazilian nubank, we will talk to the ceo david velez straight ahead. stay tuned you are watching "squawk box" you are watching "squawk box" this is will be one of trust and transparency. as a fiduciary, i promise to put your interests first, always. charles schwab is proud to support the independent financial advisors who are passionately dedicated to helping people achieve their financial goals. visit
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♪ ♪ amazing... jerry, you've got to see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks gets a little old. [thud] [clunk] [ding] ugh...
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. good morning stocks looking like they might tike a breather today. futures are lower as we make our way towards the opening bell as of the close last night, the s&p 500 on pace for its best week since february. and star stock cathie wood, she is bullish her top portfolio picks, including, of course, tesla. and apple dodging a legal bullet at least for the moment, the tech giants won't have to make big changes to its app store right now. but that in no way means they're off the table long term. we'll talk about it and we are on a milestone watch for apple's market cap it's nearing a historic level the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now
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good morning, welcome back to "squawk box" live from the nasdaq market site u.s. equity futures are down, a little after triple digits again on the dow, nasdaq going along with the negative numbers down about 60 s&p down 15. monday and tuesday really nice sessions for the bullles yesterday dow managed a small gain nasdaq was strong today. looks like a pullback. below 1.5 again on the ten year. we were above earlier in the show. >> let's get you caught up on other stories investors will be talking about today. ark invest cathie wood doubling down on her innovation stock
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picks, tesla, coin base and teledoc. here's what she told us in the last hour. >> i know the most seasoned investors out there, some of them are saying that our stocks have been in bubble-like territory. we couldn't disagree more. because we are seeing five major innovation platforms involving 14 technologies, all moving into exponential growth trajectories, simultaneously and they're converging >> as an example of what wood is talking about. she mentioned autonomous taxi networks, she sees in the next five to ten years. she says those would involve robotics, energy storage and artificial intelligence all of which she says are scaling right now n. corporate news, apple will make changes to the app store an earlier warning offered them to offer payment alternatives stemming from its legal dispute with epic gains,
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apple shares are relatively flat they have been closing in on a key level of 182.86 a share. it's pretty important levels at that point the company would hit there are 3 trillion in values we're also watching gamestop shares the company posted a bigger loss than a year ago, also disclosed an sec subpoena it received in august involving the tradings of its shares this morning, gamestop shares down by 5.5% 164.17. back to the marks, a little under 90 minutes now until the opening bell on wall street, dom chu rejoins us with a look at the morning pre-market movers. he may start mumbling soon incoherently you got some sleep >> i got a few hours and coffee down me. i am doing all right i will give you this update and take a bit of a rest and maybe another coffee break so first of all, let's talk about vcs health we have a big investment, ahead
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of that investor day, cvs health uped the forecast and gave a profit forecast for fiscal 2022. this was a bit more mixed. the mid-point fellow low some analyst's targets. they announced a 10% boost and 10 million buyback program so ccs ccvk health, interesting moves there. another stock getting moves here with young brands, the parent company of pizza hut, kfc and taco bell. the target price goes to $151 bucks a share. they like among other things the company's growth profile, not just for physical stores around the world, but also digital growth trajectory as well some young brands benefiting a bit in the pre-market trade up 1% on that level then as we do at this hour, becky, a check on our most popular tickers searching our
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website from yesterday's full session a. lot of the names went through in those head lines, apple, gamestop, lucid group, tesla as well in the top ten, roku and pfizer, each of these five stocks within the top ten of those searches as always, the west of the top ten is on my twitter feed. >> go get yourself some coffee, dom. joining us right now for more on the big market moves we've seen is jason trener, the chairman and ceo of strategic partners, which is a bear company. really hey, jason, let's talk a little about what we've seen. we've kind of come round-robin from where we were the day before thanksgiving. we had all of these concerns, that got pressure on the market drove stocks down, we've come right back how do you feel after all of that are you feeling great about things looking maybe a little better on the covid front or does the fed worry you >> i would say the fed worries me more than the buy, the rest
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of that might be a flow foolish consistency on my part my own opinion is we are headed toward more of an uneasy truce with the variant as the economy comes back and the whole economy comes back the fed, though, i think has its work cut out for us for it as with ego into 2022 the cpi, a fresh number tomorrow, has been over 5% for the last six months and it doesn't appear, it's a major change for next year we're looking for at least two fed tightenings. we will also have fiscal guide next year as well so i think to the extent to which a lot of the stimulus was a good portion, led to a good portion of the rise in stocks, we have to consider the other side that has some of that stimulus tends to drain away, that returns will be ab bit more challenging. >> we had roger ferguson with us earlier this morning he was talking about the results of a survey of ceos who are
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actually more peso ming i think looking into 2022, especially when they're looking at their own businesses because of labor shortages, supply chain issues, we think we're at the high water marc, maybe it takes longer than we have been anticipating to come down off of all these problems maybe when kind of plateau for a while before things look markedly better? >> you know, becky, there are certainly things like used car prices will not be up 10% or something. they will have certain supply cane issues before it sells out, no two ways about that by the same token, i think there are structural issues here in terms of labor part of that i think is driven by the fact that you still have 4 million missing from the work force, vaccine mandate in some parts of the country there are other things going on there. the level of money to stop the
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money is 33% two, that's pretty structural. housing is up 20% year over year it has an impact on the cpi. it doesn't seem to me it will be particularly easy to vanquish inflation and i think transitory, it started out as a forecast, now it's become i think a little of on'ca punch le that's what the ceos are talking to are highlighting. so the good news is recession is unlikely the bad news is these challenges i think are a lot stickier as we found out than we thought previously >> all of those things are good reason for j. powell the head of the fed to kind of reconsider and talk a little more hawkishly as he has been some people calm it a 180. it does sound like he will be checking down. the fed will move than earlier anticipated. that's good news if you worry
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about inflation spiraling. it leaves questions about what happens to the market if that's the case multiples have moved up so high because of that money sloshing around out there if they move to tighten that up, is that something that can be done gracefully without causing some big hiccups in the market >> being candid, most candid, but i think it's going to be hard to stick the landing without some volatility next year i do think that, i think the chance of recession are quite low. i think the chances of a major market drawn out are low but having said that, i do think that things that are probably let's say on a price per sales basis or things that are really trading at very high multiples will have a really hard time next year. so i, strategists always say this, when there is somewhat a shore. i think rotation will have a
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much bigger impact this year, almost everything works. value works, growth worked i think next year it will be harder to provide more single times of returns by being in the market i think you have to choose your stock carefully because the fed is changing its policy. >> enlighten us. where would you be choosing? >> listen, becky, we are still quite bullish on energy and basic materials. these are, those three sectors are 5% of the market so it might not be that exciting it seems to me the policy is driving those sepctors and will continue to drive them higher. on the one hand, energy is concerned. we are creating at official shortages by trailing and the capital is quite high. on the side of basic materials, you have artificial demand in the form of electric vehicles. so, and there are not a lot of
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names you can play so those are two sectors i like quite a bit. we also like the finances, because i am of the view that the curve is likely to steepen that is not a particular popular view at this point but my own opinion is people are takings it almost as an article of faith that it can't move up very high. that it's going to stay between 150 and 2% regardless of what the inflation rate is. once the fed institutes patrol, it tightens the long end of the curve, fuel should move up as well that should help the financials, too. >> bravo being able to think and speak while the police were outside your window the entire time >> a smash n grab thing. i have no idea what's happening. >> christmas tree is on fire do you all smell smoke i think that was not cops.
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the criminals are long gone. that had to be a fire department don't you think? but you didn't flinch. you obviously haven't done anything wrong the tree's okay? check it out that guy is already out on bail. >> thank you >> well done, dave >> all right take care. >> see you later >> all right coming up, when we return on the other side of this, cathie wood gaining confidence in an autonomous plan. she told us in the last hour ahead. we will get reaction plus, we are live that has the biggest listed dent. it's a huge story. you are watching "squawk box" on cnbc
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a month toward your internet service and equipment. for even more value, switch to xfinity mobile, and you could pay as little as $15 a month for wireless. click, call, or visit a store to learn more. welcome back to "squawk box. futures right now you see are indicated down 136 triple digits. the index 66 in the pre-market session there. the s&p down about 18 points >> when we come back, we will talk bank disruption with the ceo of nu bank, the brazilian thin tech company had a huge ipo
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is about to begin trading publicly here in new york. jim cramer is hosting a special event today for the cnbc investing club he will be sharing his outlook for 2022 and answering member's questions, too hurry up if you still want to sign up, there is time you can go to to take part in this. we'll be right back. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit ♪ ♪ mwell would you look at that?. ♪ ♪
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jerry, you've got to see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! [thud] [clunk] ugh... unbelievable. unbelievable. [ding]
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welcome back to "squawk box" this morning digital bank nu bank expected to make its public debut. the birkshire hathaway pricing shares at $t each gives nu bank a market value of more than $40 billion and instantly makes it the most valued bank it ranked number 40 on this year's cnbc disruptor list good morning to you, david velez, it's quite a milestone and things to think about, this was your creation back in 2013 here we are in 20 up with. you may now have the most valuable financial institution in latin america before we can just get into what's happening with the bank right now, just tell us the story. >> understand that, adam, for
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having me. so, we're in from colombia, brazil in 2013, i tell this story when i have to go to a bank branch and open a bank account. one of the most painful experiences, i have to go to a but et proof branches, security arms it took me an hour to get a simple bank account and credit card i looked into that industry. i was surprised how concentrated it was five banks own 80-to-95% of assets, credit lending in brazil and mexico and colombia. that to me seemed like a great opportunity for disruption it seemed impossible to go against one of those big companies. we were able to put together a good team, focus on the experience and the customer. here we are, it's been a quite a journey over the past eight years. still a lot to do ahead. >> you had enormous growth that accelerated during the pandemic. can you explain what happened and frankly whether it's
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sustainable at this level, if not more >> sure. yes, so we're doing very fast after pandemic, but people still had some questions about the banking. i think the concept of saving your money in digital bank back when it was scary for a lot of people they wanted to go to a banking branch and talk to the manager the behavior changed the most among the population because branches were closed so it wasn't even an option. people realized it was a better option we charge no fees, better customer experience, all if your smartphone soon we seen people in their 66, 70s, 80s, across brazil, all different municipalities in the nor, in the south, are using us. what they started to use the products, they never went back it was a peer product. lacked the experience. it experienced the growth. we seen the growth accelerating for us excited to see a platform for
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effectively all brazilians and mexicans and colombians, where we are as well >> your customer acquisition costs right now is quite low you know $5 a customer i think by the numbers i saw is that going to change over time i mean, you are looking at a lot of commerce are coming in organically. that's great but at some point i imagine as you grow, there will be an upper little which you have to pay to try to bring more customers in. >> reporter: y >> yeah, a lot of things are happening. on one end there is more competition. on the other end, there is more supplies of customer they see it as a real option for banking. all these things are playing out at the same time we have not seen change in our attack even getting to almost 40 million customers, we report as one of the largest latin institutions in latin america in terms of numbers of customers. it's possible. we're adding more products, more
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verticals, having a better value proposition. >> you mentioned competition and there are sort of two fronts coming at you, others trying to effectively eat what are you doing, digital only banks that are trying to compete with you and the traditional banks, the legacy players who are desperate to try to both keep their customers, if not grow >> yeah. that's right so, on both ends, there is competition. ultimately, though, most of the customers are still in the big banks and they end up having most of the 80-to-90% of the concentration of the system. listen, the market is so large and there is so much opportunity to make it bigger because still there is over 200 million people in latin america that have no access to banking, still are putting their cash inside their mattress ultimately over the next five years, that morkt should increase significantly ultimately it will make a much more interesting market for everybody. >> the business as we said is
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growing like a weed. yet losses persist $99 million for the first nine months ended through september speak to the path to profitability and what that looks like >> sure. so, we were actually profitable already in our core bank in brazil we actually started generating cash in 2018 so one of the few big start-ups i know in year four that were cash flow positive in generating real profits in their core market we obviously see a huge opportunity ahead over the next 20 years when want to put the profits into the growth. the exams are going for new marks in mexico and colombia where we will continue to prioritize growth. there is a lot of customers to seven. and we ultimately think that we should continue to be focused on growth obviously, while looking at very discipline investments across the entire company
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>> how much of the emergence of crypto do you think is driving your growth and the use case for your product >> not much. we don't know, we have a couple of funds that have exposure to crypto crypto is still early in latin america. so we still the stories a bit about disruption on the low end is better products for the majority of people the structure is traditionally so expensive that there is a lot that you can do by removing of the branches, the physical infrrs and expanding access to until service with no fees, using the existing parts of the financial system. >> i was with the ceo of a major u.s. bank yesterday who is very interested in what you are doing and i mention that because i think there are a lot of banks, traditional banks around the world that are looking at this as potentially the future. if you were to look five, ten years out, even in the u.s. or europe, what do you think
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happens to the traditional banks relative to either digital players? what does that look like the branch system we all come to know >> yeah. so i actually don't think it is that much more different than what is happening in other verticals in technology, when you start seeing the transformation with companies in retail and amazon and media with netflix, you end up seeing a couple things, on the one end, some traditional incumbents that were able to transform themselves, digitalize themselves, trajz nsform the new entrants and some companies weren't able to make a switch. ultimately, they're not around we don't think the branch will survive the way it is. it is to costly to steve the majority of consumers, especially in the emerging markets where you need a very high cost operations and cost to serve. so i love thephysical infrastructure it will probably disappear but ultimately, most of the
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provider until services are digital companies that will be focusing on the commerce will have ma lot of efficient sis for everybody. >> davgsd we david, we wish you lots of luck we hope to have you back >> thank you >> you bet >> bye-byeers. coming up, yep, it's that time for breaking jobless claims data what that means, rick santelli, stay tuned you are watching "squawk box" on cnbc live from the nasdaq mke iartsn time's
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> . welcome back to "squawk box. rick santelli here live at cme hq breaking news, initial jobless claims 184,000, a nice drop so far, no revision to last week's 222 and it is a post-covid loaf. if you look at continuing claims, 1 million 992,000. 1 million 992,000. it is not a post-covid low
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last week remains that way it's always a week in arears to initial claims and last week at least at this point still unrevised. there it goes. 1 million 954,000. so it's still a bit lower. these are pretty good numbers. let's put it in some context if we go back to march excuse me of 2020, continuing claims through 1 million 715,000. not so far off if you look at all of 2019, as the wraet all street jourp jourl did 1217,000 we are getting into the right zone maybe the important numbers is not is much about claims more about employers are certainly reticent to let any employees go considering we have a deficit of workers to put in those slots that remain opened and can't find people to fill. this is a huge dynamic
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but i would caution, this isn't a dynamic of the united states it's a dynamic globally. joe. back to you. >> that's interesting. yeah, we think sometimes it's what's in fronts of our face so we're seeing this across the globe, rick. interesting. thanks let's get to see steve leishman. he joins us with more. is today the all america thing did i hear that earlier? >> yes, you did, joe >> awesome >> we did that in the last hour. we got more coming up at 10:00 you can go online, read about the people who are the greatest football players in college. no, no i made the joke for you rick and i having a mind meld on what the most important issue is out there. this 184 is a big number i don't think there's -- a couple weeks ago you had a little seasonable stuff in there. got worried when it went back
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up i don't know if we're feeling a payback on that this is an unbelievable low number. what it points to is tomorrow we have a big inflation report and what spooked the fed i think the wages and how tight the labor market sfookd fed. take a very quick like, if you could, guys, at the jolt survey, yesterday, we don't get to talk about that a lot it happened at 10:00 look, 11 million, we are not apparently making progress at putting, at solving this job option problem bringing people back to work so what that tells me from an economics point of view is we have not yed yet reached an equilibrium age level that is required to bring people pack to work you got that one issue we got to get these jobs filled. once you do that there may be another process, you bring workers in at this level this wage, your managers may want a raise. this idea finding the right
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equilibrium level could go on a while. it's one of the reasons that's moved the fed faster that and the idea you may have coming housing inflation over the next several months working into the cpi working houses have come up. we haven't seen it in the data it may 'showing up that may be a reason to sit up, put your shoulders back and pay attention to the cpi numbers tomorrow. >> if i ask what's going on anecdotally, a lot of openings. the propensity to stay at home, now is it more still a covid hangover a variant hangover for not wanting to go back into the work force? what do you attribute it to in. >> i have three major factors. one is there is still a covid hangover some people not willing to gock
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to work and considering their lives and careers now they have choices they didn't have before. the second thing i'm looking at is the biggest part of the reduction in the labor force has come from those 55 and older we're going to have to find a way to get older folks back into the work force to solve that problem. the third element is a big issue is immigration there may be as many as a million-and-a-half fewer immigrants in the work force than normally compared to before the poke or before prior immigration restrictions were down so those three elements. we got to get people back in with the right wage. we have to figure out how to induce older folks who retired and had big portfolios, whatever, to come back to work we got to solve the immigration problem. do that by 10:00 we'll talk. >> one more thing, i was reading a story how schools in some places, michigan and other places are still closing down like once a week i think in some areas in
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michigan they said they will be closed every friday until february, because teachers are overwhelmed and they're worried about mass layoffs or mass resignations from these teachers and not having enough teachers to go around so when that's the case, when you get two day's notice your kids will not be in school and have you to have child care coverage that throws a huge wrench into things, too? >> yeah, becky, it's funny, i was looking at these numbers just this morning. government has a million job openings in general, they can be the last, considering the private sector steps forward what itself the number here? state education 300,000 job option in the state and local education. i just happen to have that open from the jolt survey i was trying to see how government was faring with the private sector so you will have to have a wage adjustment across the board. now, remember, when i show you 11 million, there is a normal
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number 6 million, 7 million job option. not every job is filled immediately. so have you four or 5 million jobs depending upon what you want to take as the average to fill chunk is the local and state education level, which by the way wraps back into the idea that some people can't come back to work because the schools either aren't open or they are double finding day care or job care. >> once again, ask it, steve knows the answer, thanks, steve, see you later. apple promised it would make local investments around a quarter trillion dollars this is a move that might show apple's strong showing in the country. but with u.s.-china relations in a precarious plus, does apple deal now pose a problem? john ford is here to weigh in. >> morning, becky. no, it's not a problem in fact, there are probably sought diplomats that can learn. our story in the information ap until 2016 committed to spending big on business deals work force
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developments and investments in china. that doesn't mean it turned over the technical blue prints to government superficials. the ceo side stepped and brought in a partner to run the app store. these aren't unusual hp made them, inthem, qualcomm made them, cisco made them the difference is apple is a lot bigger, makes a lot more money and invested at a larger scale what about user privacy and government surveillance? well, there is no prooifs privacy in chain it's not giving them the power to spy on its citizens, exporting china's philosophy to the rest of the world and it's not. apple is doing this right, becky. >> john, what about some of the things apple has given up, censorship when it comes to the chinese app stores in order to please the government? >> well, on the other hand, it's i feel like apple is obeying the boss in china. apple is blessing china's
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authoritarian regime with superpowers. the icloud that records everything on your phone and messages, it's managed on servers run by the government. even better, it became the single-most popular phone in china. do you think that would happen if it viewed it as a threat? okay it's understandable that apple promised to invest capital to operate there. but what that has also done has made ap am stake holder in china's oppressive system. apple's tightly controlled app store is a very convenient tool when the government is using it to make people like the exile billionaire can't have a forum to criticize the government and show the people another point of view you got the most powerful company in the world working to squash free speech in china with the same fervor to squash pornography or misinformation in the u.s. well, you got to consider who is wing here, not freedom, not apple. >> is this any different than any company that does business in china >> i think it's a little different in that not only is
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chine huge growth market for apple, it's also where the iphone, itself, is assembled and they've got these stores there that say 15, 20 years ago, it was all kind of knockoffs and unauthorized third party retailers operating there. so it's become such an important volume spot for apple and assembly spot and apple is so big, they can't afford i think to do what facebook and google has done, which is kind of draw a map of the world with a hole where china is >> so any company that really has a huge part of its business there, you are right, apple has some unique position, i'm thinking of companies like a tesla, maybe a starbucks, other companies down the road, too it's a big market, the biggest in the world and you don't operate there if you operate there you have to follow the rules. if you don't operate there you are missing a huge market especially think on the one side, i'm not going to say hand on this one. apple's probably got more insight into how the chinese
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government and economy operate than most any company because of the death of their relationship. there is value to that you got to think these companies, ceos have a red line somewhere and a plan b of what they will actually do if and probably when the government asks them to do something and maybe insists on it that they're not willing to do. >> hey, john, quick curve ball we're talking about apple. the epic decision. what do you think? it seems like a massive win for apple. >> it's a big win. >> almost massive. >> they get to keep the status quo while this gets figured out. for these companies, where innovation moves so fast and the dollars are real especially right now relying on you know digital businesses and the app store. that means for foreseeable future, things are going to stay safe >> thank you >> coming up, when we return, we're going to talk to jim cramer, get his first take on the trading day ahead.
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cathie wood thinks she is getting more confident about tesla's vehicles is it warmth we will debate wit a top tesla watcher. you don't want to miss it. futures are in the red this morning. dow up 128 points, nasdaq up 71 points we are back after this on "squawk. ♪♪ care. it has the power to change the way we see things. ♪♪ it inspires us to go further. ♪♪
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how do i know that you're not a weirdo? ♪ confessing, yeah ♪ ♪ oh, i've been shaking ♪ ♪ i love it when you go crazy ♪ what are you doing? ♪ baby, there's nothing holdin' me back ♪ i knew you were a weirdo. >> welcome back to "squawk."
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our good friends jim cramer joins us before we get to what's on your mind, i want to tell people you are hosting a special event at 12:30 eastern time producing the cnbc investment club he will be telling everybody act his outlook from 2022. it's a very cool new project and i have been reading the e-mails reli religiously. >> geeze, thank you, andrew. >> i am doing a promo. we had a apple conversation. some of the stocks moving on the other side like rent the runway, for example? >> look, i thought your interview was excellent. it's not of your cap company, obviously, it's very small you asked some questions that i felt weren't answered correctly or on point about actual profitability and losses and i think people are turning
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they want apple price earnings multiples high,boy, that was an interesting interview. it says, maybe we are at the peak of the closet and the cloud-plus moment and i'm going to talk about that hon the conference call. positives thought being stereotypical what some of the new companies salad and clouds and sweet greens we're tired of it. andrew we want earnings that is let's say accommodative of what used to be the case you know when you see those things, i felt that that story was just untouched with in that interview. >> new question. nu bank going public down where are you at the new york stock exchange how do you think about a company like that in. >> i was the original investment in lib re. everything that comes out of
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latin america that gets here has a funnel we are putting everything up into a spac. it's hard to get a number listed if you are from latin america. remember vetting >> yep >> back in the day >> i will take look at it. any company has tremendous growth i thought they were going to do it they broke up the company, but i'm looking forever since maccontracter lib rewhich is the ebay of latin america. etsy is working well i'm interesting in real growth and with the growth at a reasonable cost for the company. look at that lately not so hot but i think, andrew, these are very, very interesting companies and they don't get here by saying we ought to go this
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there is a process remember process >> i don't remember oh process in like "the" process, yes, i do remember the process. >> not the 76ers >> i don't remember that company. >> what peer e we're seeing, i don't know what stack comes public look at these things >> do you think we're at a sentiment shift? >> yes >> do you remember uber, after uber, this is now the ipo, everyone was revenue crazy all of a sudden everybody said profitability and switched on a dime do you think that's what's happening here >> you had cathie wood on. she says it's not a bubble if we talk more about some of those stocks she buys zoom, all the way down to drafting, all the debt but those again are there are times of what is not working, but that's too much the late mar
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canes, that's not what the market wants they want actual companies they've lost too much money. they've all lost too much money on this stuff. there is a rebellion i think the rebellion is correct. >> always great to see you once again, thank you. thank you. everyone should go to club to take part in this special event that jim is going to be putting on today. what he's going to be sharing his outlook for '22 and answering member's questions you can sign up and point your quk x"right at the screen. "sawbo returns right after this (soft music)
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