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tv   Squawk Box  CNBC  December 14, 2021 6:00am-9:00am EST

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stock futures slightly lower the fed kicks off a key policy meeting. now one ceo of a major bank is urging jay powell to move faster on interest rates. hard rock making a billion dollar bet on the las vegas strip, buying the iconic mirage casino no word on whether they're going to buy the spangler. details straight ahead. and elon musk making more big stock moves. the tesla ceo just exercised options to buy 2 million tesla shares, i would do this if i could, at just over $6 apiece. it's tuesday, december 14th, 2021, and "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe
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kernen and a andrew ross sorkin. we're going to start with the markets this morning as always yesterday we did see stocks pull back from records. the s&p down by nearly 1% with the dow down by 320 points and the nasdaq the big loser, it was down by about 1.4%, versus 0.9% for the others boeing and and the airlines were amid the decliners, you had american airlines closing down 5% this after the concern in the uk about the omicron variant. apple pulled back about 2% as well the price to watch for the $3 trillion market cap is $182.86 a share. in reality we may have passed $3 trillion, we don't know for sure but apple buys back so many shares per quarter and the market we've been using for this is what apple told us in the latest filing, that was how many
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shares they had outstanding as of october 16th. but we also know they buy back lots and lots of shares on a quarterly basis. so who knows exactly this is the number we have to watch. it wouldn't surprise me if they crossed over it at some point, $176.45 is where it stands now, and the u.s. equities are a mixed picture. down across the board, actually. noos nasdaq down by 92 points, dow jones down by 1550 and the nasdaq by 15 and the ten year this morning standing at 1.46%. mainland china has reported its first cases of the omicron variant. the cases were found in separate cities but both people travelled overseas both patients are in isolated treatment in hospitals
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back here in the united states, california imposing a statewide mask mandate in indoor public face spaces for the next month that applies regardless of vaccination status it begins tomorrow and lasts until january 15th they're also recommending that tourists and residents who return from travel take a covid test within three to five days of their arrival meantime, back here in new york, a statewide mask mandate is in place for indoor places unless a vaccine mandate is in place. we saw what happened in the uk yesterday but concerns continuing and persisting and perhaps at this point growing. >> yeah. tidal wave is not a great word to describe omicron in the uk. that's all you got just say that, you don't have to expound upon what you're talking about. it's a tidal wave. we don't need any kind of wave
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i wish we weren't getting any wave morgan stanley has been outspoken about interpersonal relationships and now even he has to walk back, to some extent, an edict that employees should be back in the office by now. in june he said he'd be very disappointed if workers hadn't returned to morgan stanley buildings by labor day but here's what he said yesterday on closing bell. >> i was wrong on this, i thought we would have been out of this by past labor day, we're not. i think we'll still be in it through most of next year. everybody is still finding their way, then you get the omicron variant. who knows we'll have pi, theta, we'll eventually run out of letters in the greek alphabet, god willing, but it's continuing to be an issue, i pray and hope everybody gets vaccinated and gets a booster shot, that's our
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defense. >> gorman said more than half of morgan stanley's employees have been back at the new york headquarters, which must be close by, see him walking by, more than 95% are vaccinated sometimes i wave at him, other times i go out and yell at hum. >> you are in times square he may think you're an elmo guy. >> we can't use nu -- >> i hope we don't get to the whole greek alphabet. >> that was my thinking, too >> do you know pi is pronounced p? >> what? >> yeah. in classic greek. >> are you kidding me? we've been saying it wrong all of these years >> i wouldn't kid you about that the 3 trillion, what if we decided that we use base 8 or base 9 or base 11? that's the only reason we've been looking at it, base 10.
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>> we like round numbers we do. >> but base 10 base 8 we've already passed something. >> my guess is we may have passed it anyway, we were less than $1 away from it yesterday and last quarter they bought back 141,521,000 shares. if they continue at that pace it's been a couple months they've been buying back shares. so who knows. how about tesla. we get the tes-lacquers and then the tes-larians. tes-lacquers can tell we love it but hey, idiots he sold stock but he's bought more than he sold >> at $6. >> yeah, at 6. >> you'd be an idiot not to buy at $6. people don't understand -- i didn't respond to any of those people they were in my twitter feed all
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weekend. appointment not worth getting in to explain how you're granted options with a strike price of $6 i'm not saying it doesn't mean he has faith in the company 100% but you'd be a moron to walk away from $6 stock options when the stock is priced at 946 >> what do you think of doge did you see what he's doing? >> no. >> overnight he says he's going to make merchandise and he's going to sell it for doge. tesla is going to make merchandise and sell it for dogecoin. >> he has a lot of energy. >> can you buy a flame thrower is he still making those, do you know >> i think that was a limited series it was limited i want you to look at what's happening on the screen. doge is up 20% >> this goes to the reason time magazine made him the person of the year with a few tweets he's able to
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move markets he just is. >> i like that, and you know how much he's become near and dear with every utterance in recent weeks for me, i love him but i think it should be president xi, i do that guy is -- he's the most influential person on the planet, that's him no doubt in my mind that xi should have been time man of the year. >> you could have said all the people working on the vaccines >> why >> 'cause china is -- >> but why this year >> it is a looming, global transformation that we're watching before our eyes that we can do nothing about >> but you wouldn't have done the scientists the scientists didn't do it for you? >> the first responders -- >> you could say the first responders. >> the pfizer, moderna scientists -- >> yeah. >> biontech. the biontech is the guy who actually invented it. >> they saved our lives for
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sure we're in mid save, actually. you're right think about mandates, vaccines, all that stuff, and just my mindset, i'm telling ou, when my doctor, my dermatologist said you can go tomorrow, i almost started crying from joy. after the past year of wiping down stuff and scared to death to go get a -- when i was able to do that, it was like winning the lottery. i don't understand >> that should be your man of the year, then, i guess. >> the scientists, which one >> i would put them all in one anybody working on this that came up with it, you have johnson & johnson, you have merck who failed at their attempt but then quickly turned around and started doing mass production of the johnson & johnson vaccine. to me it was, it was this effort by all of the scientists and researchers and companies cooperating in ways that you hadn't seen before i think that was a great, great
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thing. there's so many companies you can point to, people you can point to first responders, people on the front lines, any retail workers, restaurant workers who were going in every day during the height of all of this. >> it's not supposed to be like a thank -- it's not supposed to be thanking. it's just the -- >> they've done it before. you mentioned yesterday the mirror, when it's you. >> but they put tyrants on the front, too. >> i don't like it when they do those. >> you know, xi also factors into this story because we're not allowed to go in there to find out what happened -- >> right but not a magazine cover for that >> influential true but i hate when they do time person of the year. >> in 2025, '26 when he takes over taiwan that can be his year. >> or putin when it's r-ukraine or whatever it's called. russian -- >> yes >> james gorman also making head
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l lines on his advice for the fed as the central bank prepares to kick off a key meeting that's next. and later talking about working from home with the ceo of slack you're watching "squawk box" live from the nasdaq market site in times square.
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central bank, fed, kicks off a two-day policy meeting later this morning here's what morgan stanley's ceo, james governor man said on the closing bell yesterday. >> at the moment at zero interest rates we have no ammunition we're ten rate increases from normal so if i were the fed i'd start moving earlier, rather than later, store away some ammunition and accept the reality. this is before you get to the inflation discussion so we'll see, i guess, if the meeting is, i think, this wednesday, we'll see where they come at. i'd be surprised if there aren't more talking about rate increases next year. >> for more lets bring in steve liesman with the latest cnbc survey your last survey, how much play did that get it was unbelievable from last
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week, wasn't it? the athletes >> no, joe that was all american. it's called the all america survey this was the cnbc fed survey. >> but you know last week, you saw it, it was everywhere. i saw them everywhere. >> it was -- yes it was an interesting survey, joe. not only the holiday spending but a lot of political stuff we asked the right questions that's because -- you know what it is, joe we have a republican and a democratic pollster and they help us sort of ask what the country is interested in and we often get there every quarter. let me get to the fed survey, which is a dramatically different one from any that we presented since the pandemic began. it shows the market firmly forecasting the fed will reserve course and begin to reverse stimulus over several years. 31 respondents thinking the fed will announce tomorrow it will
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double the speed of the taper to 30 billion a month, hiking rates in june, and deliver three quarter point rate hikes next year, three more in 2023 the fed funds will rise to 2.3% by 2024. that's the first look in a while at the terminal rate the funds rate now seen rising to 72 bases points by the end of next year. you can see the sharp increase up from 53 in november and then approach 1.5% by the end of 2023 kathy writes in, the fed's discomfort with elevated inflation has risen and officials are concerned the omicron variant might exacerbate supply constraints this opens the door to faster and too rapid may have policy mistakes but others argue the policy mistake has been too slow removing stimulus.
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steve blitz writes in, the economy has jumped far ahead of fed policy the only hope is to raise rates and hope inflation drops enough to bring everything in line. the terminal rate 2024 hits 2.3% some were as high as 4% for the terminal others as low as half a point. highlighting the new debate how high the fed goes once they start. it's one of the bases that began as they game out the taper and the first rate hikes joe? >> when we were talking about the terminal rate. i still like the -- as an optimist i still like the idea that it's a singularity, not the singularity, per se, but that major discoveries are getting shorter and shorter. in everything, health care, i.t. artificial intelligence, whatever you want to look at, that increases productivity and maybe we can keep rates
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permanently low. the negative thing that i didn't mention to you is that when you go through one of these orgies of accommodation and money printing, that you're so indebted that any recovery you final have, as rates start to go up, they're self-governing on the amount of growth you're allowed to generate because rates are going up so by definition, you have kind of a muted response to an asset bubble, to a huge asset bubble like japan had for 20 years or we had and growth never gets above 1.57 or 2% because if we're at 3 or 4%, what would our debt service be on 3 or 4% paper? everything would be -- >> it would be a lot high er. >> everything we make would be going for that we can't do anything no money for anything else >> joe, i don't know that that's -- that's an interesting thought. i really -- i'll just acknowledge i haven't given it
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much thought >> someone worth 80 billion told me that's why. >> i mean, the thing, joe, is that i don't think that -- >> how much are you worth? >> whatever debt burden we have reduces -- whatever debt burden we have, joe, i don't see that it reduces capital to the private sector to invest an increase and enhance productivity >> really? >> it will be a government problem. why would it, joe? i'm not sure >> as a society -- it's a zero -- it really is a zero sum game for what we have. it really is a zero sum game if we're -- >> why >> because where's the -- the government gets the money to pay its debt service from increasing taxation and that takes money out of the private sector used for these great things you're talking about. do you notice there might be taxes going up have you heard how we're paying for the entitlements that we
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only pay one year to start did you hear why that's a fake argument we offset it in coming years so every program we're going to find ways to pay for it in years, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and ten, and that's all through taxes steve. >> i think you're taking the argument to the extreme, joe. >> i would never do that. >> the idea we're going to have higher taxes doesn't necessarily mean there won't be capital available for the private sector we -- >> there's less. >> we used to invest in increased productivity -- >> let's do 90% taxation and pay off our deficit. >> that would be taking it to the extreme again. it's probably better to have lower than higher taxes but it doesn't mean it's the end of the world if taxes are higher. >> how about 8%? >> child care -- >> how about 8% -- >> i don't know. there was a sweet spot in there somewhere.
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but the current rate is not necessarily the one handed down by the lord to moses at the top of the mountain, necessarily we can live with higher taxes and lower taxes. >> why europe couldn't get out of its way for the past 50 years. we've had 40% higher gdps because so much money is spent on -- >> why does europe have a higher percentage of women in the workforce? >> i'm just talking about gdp growth, steve. it's impacted -- >> right but i'm talking about labor availability. >> you have an entitlement state where all of your money goes to the government for social program we don't have enough in the private sector to grow better to grow at 3.5%. >> there's plenty of money for the private sector there's no constraint on lending. the banks create the money -- >> this is why there's two parties, democrats and republicans. we have to agree to disagree it's better in the private sector
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leave it there. >> love it >> andrew? okay coming up, love the conversation, guys elon musk just exercised options to buy more than 2 million shares of tesla at just over $6 apiece we'll bring you details straight ahead, plus a debate over it plus a billion dollar deal on thlaves stp.e s gari you have to hear about this. squawk returns after this.
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so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. this is ashley. you can pick the best plan for each employee she's a posh virtual receptionist. she'll make sure you never miss a call or an opportunity to grow your business. you can't be in two places at once, let posh answer. posh virtual receptionists. welcome back to "squawk box" this morning, elon musk selling another $906 million worth of tesla shares that's according to filings late yesterday, he also exercised options to buy 1.3 million shares at a strike price of $6 per share. those were granted to him via a
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2012 compensation package. earlier he sold 1 billion worth of stock and $10 billion worth in november. so sells a little, buys a little he's gonna be more than flat when this is all over in terms of his ownership in the company. so i know a lot of people are taking a lot away from some of the sales, not sure you should take that much away because he's going to continue to be as invested as ever, of course, at a much lower bases than a lot of folks buying in today. >> right i think we covered this ground already in the a-block but, you know, it confounds a lot of people who are watching but makes sense, if you know and understand what he's doing. >> he's taking a lot of bloom off the rose for the left, guys, with the can the bill. all the goodwill he built up from saving the planet from carbon dioxide in one fell swoop, he moves to texas, people
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don't like that. and then he says can the b b b b b b, however many bs there are. >> build back better bill. four >> twitter really is composed of like -- i think it's about 600 really hard core like 23-year-olds that have not ever had a single day of experience in the world because i see some of their opinions and it's like what are you where did you come from? have you noticed that, the 600 that control things, the trends and everything, for real i look at their comments and go wow, there are people like you? >> i don't know about that. >> you're kidding. you disagree >> no, no, i think there's a lot -- i think twitter is a house scape and there's a lot of people who are very angry. and i wonder, actually -- it's a longer philosophical conversation whether people are this angry or this is their venue to vent their anger because they can't do it in
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person. >> i think there's some of that. >> every once in a while you answer and go i didn't mean it, i didn't know anyone saw these things, i'm sorry i like "squawk box. you just said the worst things in the world to me, and now you -- yeah. i forget i give people a second chance just after they're blocked. >> on the score of elon musk, though, and the whole idea -- >> he lost you with the flame thrower. he lost you with the flame thrower. you've been off the -- >> no. no no you know -- look, i said this a hundred times i'm a huge fan of him and tesla and what he's created obviously. i didn't love the flame throwers i think the build back better bill you can have a position on one side or the other without it being -- i don't believe huis view is blpolitical. it's business. he doesn't want to sub does the other guys that's a conflict because the
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u.s. government has been subsidizing for a very long time tesla and now they're going to continue or somehow subsidize these other guys -- >> what was his problem with bernie i wouldn't tweet, wow i'm surprised you're still kicking. >> bernie wants to come after his money. tax the rich sort of. >> i don't think he does any of it for money. >> he doesn't have a filter, as he said himself. he says what he thinks and that's -- >> he'll pay plenty in taxes more than bernie ever dreamt of in his life. >> bernie dreams big. >> he does dream big and he lives pretty well for someone who hates money. when we come back we'll talk about bitcoin prices up next, robert frank tells us why the cldeine in price is welcome news for some crypto investors. that story is next
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welcome back to "squawk box"
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this morning bitcoin prices have tumbled over the past month, down 25% since mid november, the decline coming at the perfect time for some crypto investors robert frank is here to explain to us why. robert >> good morning, andrew. crypto investors have about two and a half weeks to take advantage of a tax loophole that could be ending. under current law, crypto holders are exempt from the wash rule that requires investors to wait at least 30 days for buying back a security they sell for tax losses if you bought bitcoin for 65,000 and sell today for 47000, you can use the $18,000 loss to offset any gains and immediately buy it back to stay invested in the market crypto investors have lost $700 billion in market cap in recent weeks so those losses could be lucrative to offset other gains this year from the stock market, other crypto or
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nfts all of this is likely to change next year because the build back better plan includes a rule eliminating the wash rule exemption for crypto it's recommended investors sell with the highest cost bases before january 1st also starting january 1st, crypto platforms like coin base and gemini will be required to report customer holdings to the irs. the days of underreporting your crypto taxes may be numbered >> so you think that everyone is just trying to get -- sell now or you think they're going to try to buy in? now that the price is so low, what do you think people are do doing, exactly what's the trade, exactly? >> if you look at the number of retail investors who came into bitcoin when it was in the high 50s or 60s, it is a vast number of that retail crowd and so, what we've seen in the data is a lot of them are selling. you look at why would they sell
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at a loss, it's those tax losses again, because you can just jump right back into bitcoin, some of them may be waiting, some may be jumping back in now, that wash rule allows them to stay invested but still harvest the loss they can use it against their stock gains they've had in their robinhood accounts or any other gains this year in terms of capital to offset that you look at the $700 billion in losses, that's a generous tax write off they can use against any gains this year. >> okay. robert frank, always telling us how to make a little money and how those who have a little money are making more or saving more a dollar saved is a dollar made in my book thanks. >> i love robert he always brings us good stories. things we want to talk about. when we come back, the omicron impact on global travel. we'll talk to the former ceo of spirit airlines and the current chairman of six flags
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welcome back, everybody. tsa checkpoint numbers showing domestic travel near 2019 levels but international numbers may take longer to return especially with the spread of the omicron here's dr. scott gottlieb yesterday. >> when people ask if i'm traveling overseas, the answer is no. the reason isn't necessarily i think the risk there isn't any higher than it is there. but i don't want to get stuck in a policy change or quarantine in another country and heaven forbid you get covid in another country. joining us the former
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chairman of spirit airlines. we're in uncharted territory, people are feeling better. you have more people vaccinated than ever before, probably with natural immunity than ever before and people moving freely around the country overseas that's a different story. how is this breaking down and what are airlines seeing at this point? >> thank you very much, becky. it's great to be with you. i think dr. gottlieb is right. i think the biggest fear of international travel is changing government policy. and especially at this time of year, would you want to go to another country, maybe get a negative test, which could be a false positive or something happens and you miss the holidays with your family because you're quarantined that would be a terrible situation. domestic travel is strong, leisure traffic is strong, and bookings for the holiday look good but international travel is on a
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long, slow slog back and it's going to take a while. what it's really going to take is some consistency around international government policy. and i'm not sure whether we can count on that any time soon. >> we've seen excitement as barriers to travel from overseas coming here were dropped earlier this year. you saw a lot of pickup with people who hadn't seen their families in a long time, eager and desperate to get back to see them but when you see something like this and the changing -- rapidly changing government standards in other places, how does that show up in airline bookings does it drop off immediately is it something that's a slow bleed, was it never that strong beyond the people who were so desperate to get back? >> it hasn't been that strong since the pandemic you see an increase in the cancellation rate. some people book fairly far out saying maybe it'll be better by the time i go. then they assess the situation a month or two before and say i'm
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going to cancel and rebook for later. you see higher cancellation rate, you see a lower level of booking from the beginning and then you just don't see the booking build, that's the term airlines use, that you would normally see on those flights. that's why you've seen wide body airplanes flying around within the united states. those are planes their natural missions would be to fly transatlantic or transpacific. but the airlines have to do something with them so you get a wide body to fly from new york to l.a. >> that's an interesting point i hadn't thought of. what does that mean for how many people you can take domestically on some of these -- i guess there's demand to fill these planes, too. >> that's where the demand is. so the question is, if you've got all this fixed capacity, essentially. all these airplanes you've bought and the crews you have trained, ready to fly. then the reality is you're going to put the capacity where you
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can possibly fill it that tends to be longer flights within the u.s. and flights to popular places like florida, arizona, california, things like that >> what does it mean for the airlines we know there are a few big airlines that rely much more heavily on international travel and that's a big part of not only the revenue, but especially their profit what's that mean for those airlines, the united, deltas, americans? >> those three airlines that you specifically mentioned, i think it means a much longer road to recovery than it does for the rest of the industry most of the rest of the industry have lower costs of production, which helps them get back to profitability sooner they also tend to be much less dependent on business travel overall. and business travel drives a lot of the profitability of long haul travel and just like dr. gottlieb said he wasn't traveling. there's plenty of businesses today that aren't willing to send their employees overseas on
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flights yet, even though they will let them take domestic flights. so without that business travel, most international long-haul flying is not going to be prof profitable that means we could be looking into 2023 or 2024 before you see annual profitability of the big carriers you'll see a return to profitability of the rest of the industry much sooner because they don't have the wide body flying and they're only carrying leisure traffic as a normal part of their business. >> you're also the chairman of you six flags entertainment. i went with the family to six flags on saturday. and it was great you know, you forget about people being outside having these things to do in december, it was 66 degrees here on saturday but, you know, just a great outside time it wasn't jam packed, probably the least pack i've ever seen the park, but having people there in crowds in december, what are you seeing right now,
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just in terms of pandemic behavior versus pre-pandemic how does that shape up when you're looking at a place like six flags? >> thanks for going opi i hope you had a great time. >> we did. >> we saw over the summer that the parks were very, very full people that were -- did not go to the parks in the summer of 2020 because they were not open or they were limited, they were excited to get outdoors, be in a place where they could have fun rides, eat maybe not the best food for you but good teslaing food, right. >> s'mores everywhere, you could roast them yourself. it was great. >> and being able to do things like the winter fest that six flags is doing, celebrate the holidays in winter even in some places like imagine what you did probably in new jersey being done in texas or in southern california it works there too and lets the
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kids and families there sort of see snow or a snowy environment. so families like going outdoors and six flags is having a strong year this year and a nice rebound because of what they are. they're an outdoor entertainment. >> ben, thanks so much for your time today good to see you. >> it's fun to be with roller coasters in the airlines and the theme parks too. i think we have breaking news out. >> happening again you have to watch every morning because of things like this. meg tirrell joins us with breaking news about pfizer >> joe, pfizer has the final results on its covid antiviral pill coming in the same as their interim results, 89% reduction in the risk of hospitalization or death when given within three days of symptoms to high risk patients it was 88% when given within 5 days which was higher than the interim results. there were no deaths among people who took the drug, versus
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12 on placebo, these data are important because the ceo told us the fda was waiting for the final results from pfizer after they saw mercks go down so much between the interim and the final. the company also, for the first time, putting out new data from a trial in standard risk people. so folks who don't have a risk factor for severe disease with covid. this was a trial that included unvaccinated adults at standard risk as well as some vaccinated high risk adults it missed the primary goal, which was alleviation of four straight days of symptoms, but it showed it reduced hospitalization risk in these folks by 70% also both studies showed a ten-fold decrease in viral load at five days so the ceo aying, quote, this underscores the treatment candidate's potential to save the lives of patients around the world. they're reiterating it should work against omicron so it could be a helpful tool as we have the emerging new variant
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encouraging to see there was not a big change from pfizer's study as we saw merck's results go from a 50% reduction down to 30% in the final results p >> i guess all we're missing is the omicron, they hope -- and it should, it has nothing to do with the spike protein where the mutations are. so you would assume it would work just as well. but you make the key point, meg, about the -- you know, i guess people were worried there could have been a disappointment in the final results because of what we saw with the merck offering that's a totally different mechanism. >> yeah. that was -- totally different mechanism. but that was something that the fda advisory committee focused on a lot because the interim results looked so strong and then it went down so significantly trying to understand the differences in the trial. we have not seen the fda act on merck's truck yet, the meeting was november 30th, two weeks ago, so we've been waiting to see what the fda will do, they
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haven't announced an advisory committee meeting for pfizer so will they clear the drug as they analyze the new data we'll see the omicron, they have test tube data suggesting this should hold up against omicron so the data are stacking up well there. >> can you explain the distinction between the 89% number and the 70% number? >> yeah. so there were two separate trials the 89% number was in folks who have risk factors for severe disease. so in that trial you saw more folks potentially go to the hospital, compared with people who were on the drug in the other trial, the 70%, that was folks who are unvaccinated and who are at standard risk. so didn't have high risk factors for severe disease or people who were vaccinated but did have high risk factors, there the difference between placebo and drug was slightly less but still significant at 70% >> the thing i don't understand,
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wouldn't you think it should work better in the people who are at less risk, or no? >> they're less likely to go to the hospital, right? >> exactly >> in the first place. >> it's just the treatment population so it can be easier to show a benefit in folks who are at higher risk. but really importantly is the viral decrease you're seeing really the same across both trials at five days you're seeing a tenfold lowering in the viral load compared to the placebo so the drug really does target the virus. >> which is great news and probably means you're less contagious to other people around you too but meg, i think the big question is when will this pill -- if the fda approves it, how long is it going to be before you can see this readily available so anybody who feels like they're sick or gets a positive test back is able to get it, you don't have to be a high-risk patient or somebody who's connected who can get this when will it be available for anybody in the general population >> we will have to see for whom the fda clears this because they
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have had the data for high-risk folks for the longest, and so it was expected that the initial clearance would be just for people with a risk factor, the same way the antibody drugs are cleared now. but now pfizer has this additional data. so we'll have to see what the fda does with that we also know that supply will take a little while in order to really, really ramp up pfizer already has shipped drug to locations to be able to have it ready to go whenever it gets the clearance, but exactly how much will be available is a question and then, of course, are all the logistics of you've got to get a positive test, hopefully within three days of symptoms, and start taking this really early >> okay. meg tirrell, thank you for bringing us that news. good news. very, very good news on this tuesday morning. meantime i want to get a quick check on the markets right now, show you where things stand. let's see if anything moved around as a result of this morning. things are improving a bit i don't know if it's on the back
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of that news, but dow down about 9 points right now, nasdaq off 104 points, s&p 500 off about 11 points for more on the markets, we're joined by anastacia and the markets reporter as well as a cnbc contributor good morning to both of you. we were going to talk sort of just straight markets, but anastasia i asked you on the back of this pfizer news if it changes anything at this point or do you think this is already baked into the cake? >> i think it's important, andrew i think it's an important reminder that we do have tools to fight the delta variant, to fight the omicron variant. what's interesting, if you look at the treasury market, you have the 10-year that's acting like growth is really going to slump next year, whether it's because of fed tightening or omicron, so i think today is an important reminder that between vaccines, pills, and antibody treatments being developed, we have a lot
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of tools at our disposal if you look where parts of the markets are trading, they're trading like they were in the early part of the year where we did not have all these different news so i think this news this morning on the pfizer pills should help the sentiment. >> one of the big issues is we may have tools, but those tools in some cases may not be available at least at scale for three, six, nine months. the question is does the market see through that while there are real health issues in the meantime >> i think when you take a look at last week's stock market action, right, best week since february, it does seem like people are looking through that a little bit as anastasia pointed out, we do have these tools at our disposal we got some encouraging news regarding the variant last week. supply chain issues have been easing around the globe. oil prices have been falling potentially providing some good news on the inflation front, so it does seem like people are
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taking those things in stride. >> anastasia, i just want to go back on the variant for one more moment and then i want to switch the topic. but when you see some of the numbers that we're seeing in the uk or in norway where they're talking about they had i think 1,000 cases a day and they're talking about this potentially exponentially growing to 300,000 cases a day and you see the kind of, i don't want to say shutdown in the uk, but you're starting to see people talk about really working from home for a period of time. if that were to happen in the united states, how would that impact the market? >> well, i think we all know the answer to that the knee-jerk reaction would be pretty drastic and severe. i don't actually think that that would be the base case but i think we have to go to south africa, andrew, and look at what's happened to the cases there. you absolutely see just an exponential surge in cases in
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south africa but if you look at the hospitalization trends, they are still tracking even below some of the delta hospitalization rates. so i do think that this is a virus that's clearly more transmissable as the early data shows. it is four times more transmissable, but it doesn't amount to the same level of hospitalizations and icu occupancy and so on and so forth. so i think the measures that we are likely to take and even the uk is taking is on the margin. and to try to slow the spread of it but it is not putting the same strain on the hospital systems as the prior variant, so i don't think that the government will resort to the wide-scale lockdown certainly that would be be pressing to the market just yet. >> we talk about the variant and then talk about the fed. that's basically all we really talk about, the big levers on the market right now i just wanted to ask you what you're hearing in terms of what the investor class is telling you about their expectation about the fed at this point and
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how they're investing around that >> i mean that is by far the biggest risk i hear about from investors, right how will the fed proceed we're seeing this massive stimulus come pretty close to an end. i think the big question after today is what do the rate hikes look like next year? how many are people forecasting? people are already forecasting them to increase their path of tapering i think one warning sign can be found in the bond market people's interest rate expectations are increasing, but the yield curve has been flattening that tells you some investors are saying, hey, is the fed going to overreact to the inflation that we're seeing, are they going to make a policy mistake. that's a fear out there. >> thank you, guys appreciate it. >> thank you coming up, much more on that pfizer news that covid treatment pil pill reduced hospitalization and death by 89%
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reaction straight ahead. today, your customers want it all. you have to deal with higher expectations and you have to lower wait times. with ibm, you can do both. your business can unify apps and data across your clouds. so you can address supply chain issues in real time, before they impact your bottom line. predicting and managing operational issues that's why so many businesses work with ibm.
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futures lower ahead of some key inflation data and day one of the fed meeting a breakdown of what's moving markets this morning and what you need to watch. apple's march to $3 trillion does the stock have room to run? we'll break down the stock's latest move and find out what's driving shares. and gamestoped shares of the meme stock down 39%. other names like amc are down even more. we'll find out if meme stocks are dead, as the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, and welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc. i'm andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernen. let's show you u.s. equity futures at this hour right about now as we show you the board you'll see the dow off
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about 10 points, 11 points, nasdaq off 104 points, s&p 500 off 12 points. we got some good news that just broke from pfizer, becky it hasn't moved the market as much as you might have hoped, but nonetheless. >> yeah, it's big news and it has moved pfizer shares. pfizer says that the phase two of its three studies show that the drug maker's antiviral covid pillory reduced hospitalization death by 89% and by 88% within five days. for that trial, this was a trial of people who were at heightened risk you also had a trial that they did of people who were not at heightened risk that reduced hospitalization by 70% it was a tenfold decrease in the viral load at five days for both of these different trials and this is big news this reconfirmed some news that we had seen on their last trials
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but this could be a pretty big game-changer if you could take a pill within a new days of getting symptoms and it could reduce your risk of death or hospitalization by such extreme measures we'll talk to dr. kavita patel about this in just a little bit. big day today for the federal reserve. they kick off their two-day final meeting of the year with an interest rate decision coming tomorrow could the fed actually start to raise rates tomorrow speaking to cnbc yesterday, morgan stanley's ceo, james gorman says he's in the camp of those who think the fed should >> rates will rise with absolute certainty. and i think it will happen, as i'm sure we're going to talk about, sooner than most people do i've felt that for a long time with that will come more pressure on the economy, more pressure on growth, more pressure on credit, and, therefore, more pressure on equities that's a given but that kind of readjustment back to a more normal environment not necessarily a bad thing.
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a small correction is not necessarily a bad thing. >> and elon musk selling another $906 million of tesla shares at the same time, he basically exercised options to buy 2.13 million shares at the strike price of $6.24 per share granted him back in 2012 from that compensation package earlier this month musk sold about $1 billion worth of stock. he sold nearly $10 billion in november tesla is down 20% off its monthly high and no longer in the 1 trillion club. california will impose an indoor mask mandate for indoor public spaces for the next month. it begins tomorrow and will last until january 15th state health authorities are also recommending the tourists and residents who return to california after travel test within five days of their arr arrival. let's get to dom chu
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dom has some of the morning's market movers. hey, domino. >> hello so we got some merger discussions to go through and actually a merger completed or going through. let's take a look, first of all, at neogen corp and then 3m these two companies are in a deal neogen provides animal and food safety products. think of things like aller januarypathogen. 3m has animal and food safety. they're going to take 3m's unit, spin it off to shareholders and merge is simultaneously with neogen it's called a reverse morris trust but technically aside, neogen is up 12%, 3m is up half of 1%. by the time the new company is formed, neogen shareholders will own a little less than half. so much neogen and 3m shares on
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the move. also the reopening versus stay at home, there's some movement in the premarket so far within some of the names we talk about mostly here. delta airlines you see, it's moved just about flat right now. it was up fractionally maybe 15 or 20 minutes ago. norwegian cruise lines marginally higher, just about flat on the session. zoom video and docusign more closely associated with the stay-at-home trend are lower they are off 1.25 to 1.50% an interesting note coming out of cowen analysts saying that they think planet fitness is going to be a buy rated stock. they take it to overweight and put the target price at $100 a share. they like the growth trajectory in terms of membership and even new units opening up for physical gyms that you can actually go to planet fitness shares are up 1%. so you talk a little bit about that reopening versus
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stay-at-home trade an interesting move by cowen thinking the worst is behind and physical gyms may be the new norm going forward and growth will be there as opposed to, say, other places like stay at home, joe. >> pfizer news heretofore we would have seen maybe more of a response in those diametrically opposed sectors you just talked about. i understand why we haven't maybe. it's going to take a while for -- you know, to study this thing before it's approved and then there's going to be ramping up in manufacturing. and i think eventually that would help airlines and travel and hotels if you knew you had a pill but in the meantime omicron, they called it -- boris johnson called it a tidal wave yesterday. i know there will be a pill to take the worst case off the scenario, but in the near term, who feels like traveling to europe or any of these things, dom, with omicron. so i think the pfizer news is good, but it's sort of a delayed
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gratification and maybe we don't see a big move in pfizer or the averages today based on it. >> and to your point, in the headlines we just heard from andrew about this notion that california will put mask mandates back in place regardless of vaccination status, i was in new york yesterday. i took a day off, joe. i don't know if you know this. the reason why i'm going to share a little bit i went there, my wife and we took our daughter to go see the radio city christmas spectacular, to see the rockettes and we had lunch afterwards one of the interesting parts about my experience there was that they did check my vaccination status, right, at each of those venues, both at radio city and for lunch and then we were free to not have masks on if we didn't want them what happens, though, if more jurisdictions start imposing some of these mandates and then what does it do to the economic activity i guess is the big question there so there's a lot more of those types of situations playing out in some of these stocks which is
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why you're seeing the realtime handicapping not dramatic, just trying to assess what all this is going to mean. >> dom, did camels walk right by you? >> so there were -- i did not. now, i was paying pretty close attention. usually there is livestock i would say that there was not a camel that i saw this time i saw at best a donkey or burrow or some kind of creature that looked like it i wasn't exactly up close and some sheep. >> where do they keep those? they're not holograms. there are camels in radio city. >> i was there pre-covid and i did see camels during the radio city spectacular my daughter was much moere enamored with the dancers. >> you were? >> no, my daughter was i like the livestock >> okay. i misunderstood you there. nothing wrong with that, dom the leg kicking and all that stuff. don't be shy don't be -- i like the dancers
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>> she liked the dancers, he liked the livestock. >> i like the livestock. >> did you hear him? >> i like the animals. i'm an animal guy. >> let's dig in. okay when we come back, apple inching closer to the $3 trillion market cap. we'll see if the stock has room to run right after this break. the stock right now up 1%. before we head to the break, let's get a check on the markets. "squawk box" will be right back.
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apple is just one rally away, if you will, from another milestone, the $3 trillion market capitalization. the level to watch, 182.86 exactly. joining us now to talk about how apple got here, where it's heading next, daniel we've had some of your colleagues -- not colleagues, but people that also try to figure out apple and where the stock is headed. very, very bullish comments across the board about how strong demand is, not just for phones, but, you know, how well
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service revenues have grown. and actually some excitement about things like the glass, the glasses you're going to wear and what you'll be able to do. i don't know i guess in the metaverse we won't have to leave our houses, dan. >> i think this is a story of continued innovation we've seen it with iphone, certainly mac, ipad, the watch and the wearables category in many ways is just getting going. services remain strong and continues to broaden out with new offerings like fitness plus. and so i think over the next one to two years we're going to see more of the same there's potential over the next 24 to 36 months for apple to introduce glasses augmented or virtual reality. i think a big piece of the story will remain their ability to empower the millions of developers around the world and sustain this vibrant ecosystem that is so essential to everything apple, its users and
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the broader community are able to stand on. so that in my view is a big part of the magic here of this story. >> what's a large number because there's something called a law of large numbers and it seemed to have some effect, as apple tried to get through a trillion ten years ago, i think. there is such a thing as the law of large numbers the stock has doubled, doubled, doubled. if it doubles again, it's $6 trillion >> it's about being able to redefine the user experience, to redefine categories. we all recall with the ipod that were music players but apple was able to change that. they broughtin itunes. they have been able to deliver an iphone and really change that category with the app store. so every time they have gone into new markets, it's not just about delivering products, it's about giving a user experience that is differentiated, that is fun, that is secure, and that's really enabled them to move into
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other areas. as we look out over the next few years, health care is an example there's a lot of value they can potentially create and it's not just them. it's this notion of bringing others along with them. >> so what could trip up the two, three, four-year growth story for apple? what would it be >> it would be a variety of factors, including their inability to execute on product cycles the markets are incredibly difficult. the phone market as we appreciate, there are many companies with razor-thin margins as they expand into new areas. none of this is something that they will necessarily be successful with. i think, though, what they are going to bring which raises their probability of success is really this integration of hardware, software and services. that's something that cuts across a lot of different areas and is able to deliver the
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experience that users will value. if they're able to do that, i do think there's additional shareholder value to be created here. >> we've come to accept just small innovations on existing product lines. i don't know, what does an iphone 25 do versus what the iphones do today i mean how many more bells and whistles, how does that -- how long can you extend the life of that, and what have you got -- you need a flying car? what's next? >> well, if we look at the phone, what's interesting, and there have been cameras on phones for a long time but what we've seen in recent years and what we think will accelerate over the next few years is the ability for the camera and for 3-d sensing to give a whole new view into the world. the camera is how we all experience a lot of what's around us. and we've seen during covid and in the world that lies ahead, the camera will be even more
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important. so i see that as one of many examples, joe, where they're going to take an experience and bring it to the new level. if they're able, for example, with augmented reality to extend into a new device category, that would obviously be incremental but when i think of iphone 25 or the ones beyond, it's going to be their ability to take the existing technologies, redefine the experience, but of course keep the user base happy and that's one of the reasons, i think, that the install bases continue to grow even in what remains a very challenging smartphone market. >> what's your price target now, dan? do you have one? even if you don't, would you buy it here? would you wait for a pullback? what do we see by the end -- in the next 12 to 18 months what do you think is possible? >> joe, i am a buyer here. i do think there's substantial upside over the next 12 to 24 months i think it's going to be driven
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by growth, free cash flow generation and this ability to continue innovating and empowering others to be successful on their platform and in their broader ecosystem >> i can't imagine life without it i try to think back on when i didn't know when i was going to arrive somewhere, when i didn't know -- this is just one feature. i talk about it all the time when i didn't know that there was an accident and i was able to take a different route or something. life was totally different it's amazing some of it's good. i don't know if i want to see every waking moment in a person's life captured in film which we see in video, but crazy. and it's here to stay. thanks, dan. dan flax just wondering about the metaverse. does metaverse play into apple, sorkin >> i think it does when you start to think about the glasses. if the ar glasses turn into vr glasses that they play a role in it maybe, we'll see. >> do you remember the movie
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"wally"? >> do you remember where humans were at that point they were all flying around. they were big fat slobs living in a metaverse. >> kind of like us >> no, my muscle tone is back. i like the world i like the world >> well, you like driving. you're going to have a problem with the automatic driving. >> trouble with all these things what are you going to do with the glasses, andrew? you can't go out in those glasses into the world. >> andrew, have you tried them because i've actually been interested. >> what do they do what's it going to do for me, andrew >> there's two types of glasses. right now you can get a set of the oculus 2s, i think they are. those you're going to sit -- you can't see anything you're looking at a screen. >> i want the ones that look like sunglasses and people can't tell you've got the internet. >> what becky is talking about is what likely or at least if you hang out like i do, unfortunately, on all these speculative blogs about what
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apple will do next, they'll make glasses that look like glasses but they're going to beam into your eyes and effectively put graphics and other things on top of real life so if you're walking down the street it would give you directions to something and have a text message. >> instead of looking down at your phone, you can look up and you're not going to fall off the side of the curb as you're texting at the same time which i did last week. >> if you went to a cocktail party and you couldn't remember anybody's name. >> right. >> and it told you everything about every person, that would be something but that's -- by the way, that's not the metaverse. the question is whether that -- >> i just think instead of looking down at your phone, you can look up. >> it's a gateway to the metaverse, so we'll see. when we come back, chinese regulators slabbing webo with a crime. take a look at some of the morning's winners in the nasdaq,
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dow and s&p 500. "squawk" returns after this.
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u.p.s. and fedex have maintained 99% of covid delivery vaccines, but looking ahead to 2022, that track record may not hold up, frank holland joins us with more on this story. f frank, what have you learned >> today marks 1 million vaccines distributed by u.p.s. but at the same time the head of the u.p.s. vaccine distributor effort says there could be lumpiness in the second year he says pediatric vaccines and modifications to packaging could create some new challenges. >> the manufacturers are starting to think about how they change the formulation and when that happens, inventory becomes an issue, logistics becomes an issue and performance becomes an issue >> cnbc data finds a minimum of
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115 million more doses are needed to be distributed to reach what appears to be the new goal of 70% of americans being fully vaccinated and having a booster shot compared to roughly 27% now. 595 million have been delivered so far with fedex and u.p.s. both delivering just about half. wheeler says even with the challenges, he expects on-time delivery to remain near 99% but the state-by-state differences could potentially create new logistical problems. >> there will be potentially more vaccines that have to be either returned or destroyed if they're not used. and they're kept in storage beyond their shelf life. >> analysts say vaccine distribution continues to be profitable for u.p.s., fedex and other companies that import or distribute ppe domestically. turning back to the international effort, fedex says it's delivered vaccines to 50 different countries. u.p.s. says it's delivered
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vaccines to over 100 different countries, while also supporting drone deliveries in africa with a startup called zip line as well as covax. these drone deliveries by zip line is providing some data that's helping their commercial drone plans as well. >> frank, is there anything that can be done? if we know this problem is approaching, is there anything we can do to make sure these vaccines are better distributed or not wasted? >> well, just to be clear, wes wheeler says a lot is being done but there's a lot of changes going on, both to the packaging, the introduction of pediatric vaccines we have to remember the united states is a combination of states different states have different storage levels, different reporting, and just different desires for people to get vaccinated some of that is just inherently part of the process. >> i would guess that as this happens, if you have more vaccines being wasted, it's going to increase the calls for more of this to be shared with other nations where they're desperate to get their hands on some of these vaccines
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>> well, you know, becky, organizations like doctors without borders and the w.h.o., they have mentioned that they feel at least that the u.s. is hoarding vaccines. but the real question remains how much vaccine hesitancy is there in the u.s. and how much vaccine desire is there in the u.s. and will people continue to want to get vaccinated or get booster shots as we see omicron continue to spread. >> frank, thank you. great to see you. still to come, meme stocks hit hard in yesterday's trading. we'll talk to the ceo of trading platform tasty trade on the future of the meme play. later don't miss our interview with the ceo of stay tuned, you're watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc.
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welcome back to "squawk box" this morning china's webo shares tumbling after regulators slap fines on the social media giant's operator we get straight over to eunice yoon who joins us with more. good morning to you, eunice. >> good morning, andrew. webo was fined $470,000. this is its 45th penalty for the year the company's cyber watchdog
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summoned them and told the company they need to stop repeatedly publishing illegal information and punish those responsible. the company said it accepts sincerely the criticism and will clean up soft morning and malicious marketing. it added that it aimed to build a clear and clean cyberspace so for investors that's good news because weibo is using the terms the communist party likes to hear. this is a buzz phrase it discussed back in september when it announced new rules to develop a civilized internet so tightening controls to ensure that news sites as well as social media platforms are in line with, quote, core socialist values so the company has had to really thread a very fine needle this year weibo, known as china's twitter, is really still the place where people here can have discussions about different topics and
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amplify their voices, even though, of course, there's a whole lot of censorship here in china. so it has had to crack down in line with beijing's clampdowns on celebrity rankings, bitcoin influencers and then financial news accounts that are deemed illegal by the state and damaging to the economy. so the expectation now is that these crackdowns that we're seeing and these campaigns are only going to rev up from now into the end of 2022 when, as you guys well know, president xi jinping is expected to be elevated yet again and stay in power for an unprecedented third term guys >> unbelievable. unbelievable eunice yoon, thank you appreciate it very, very much. coming up, dr. kavita patel will join us right after the
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break. news out just in the past hour on pfizer's covid antiviral drug the second phase of a study showing that hospitalizations and death reduced by 89% check out the futures and the shares of pfizer, not a whole lot happening. the dow is positive, though, at this point, nasdaq, though, still down significantly we'll rhtacbeig bk.
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welcome back to "squawk box. interesting breaking news here live from the nasdaq but kroger is ending some covid benefits for unvaccinated workers. "wall street journal" citing a memo sent to employees among the changes, unvaccinated employees who get covid won't receive two weeks of paid emergency leave. the grocery chain is also adding a $50 monthly surcharge to health plans for unvaccinated managers, other nonunion employees. it doesn't apply to people with medical conditions or religious accommodations, but just think about kroger, which i didn't realize, one of the largest employees in the country half a million employees frontline workers are essential
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to kroger being able to conduct its business, and kroger, like so many companies, are looking at what the federal government wants companies to do and then every couple of days there's another court case saying, okay, forget that, here's where we are now. i think kroger kind of taking matters into its own hands to try and walk that line, to keep workers and not lose them because of something that's too draconian, but it's like -- >> it's what delta did. >> you're hitting people with the carrot, i think. >> creating -- we keep talking about creating carrot as incentives on one side i think in truth that maybe the disincentive, which is what they're doing, is to take away rather than -- you know, this is the stick and the carrot this is the stick in some ways but that actually may me much more powerful. we've talked about it on the air, why insurance companies don't have higher premiums for people who have decided, for
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example, not to get vaccinated in the same way that at the beginning of every year when you get your -- decide on your insurance, they ask you to attest that you're a smoker or not a smoker and it's $100 more or less. you could do the same thing for vaccines and you could actually make it much more, frankly, punitive >> that's like a market solution too. >> it's what delta did and was pretty successful in doing didn't delta say it was $200 or $250 extra that they were going to make you pay if you chose not to get vaccinated and then got sick their point was everybody they had in the hospital at that point was unvaccinated it cost $50,000 or more for each one of those patients who went to the hospital. so you're basically paying to fund yourself. if you choose not to do vaccine, fine, but you're going to pay for the cost yourself. also some breaking news on pfizer in the last hour. the company saying that its covid pill is nearly 90% effective at reducing hospitalizations and deaths in its final results. joining us right now for more on this is dr. kavita patel, a
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fellow at the brookings institution and former white house health policy director who's also an nbc and msnbc medical contributor. dr. patel, this is huge news from pfizer this morning it confirms what we had heard on their last trial, basically that this is incredibly effective, this pill, in helping prevent the worst-case scenario for people who actually do get covid and that's great news. >> it is great news, becky, and two things this is, as you mentioned, the final trial results, the pivotal trial data we had the interim results about a month ago which is what prompted pfizer to apply for emergency authorization for its pill in addition to that we have an open window now from three to five days which the trial showed that that you can give this drug after a confirmed diagnosis of covid-19 a twice-a-day pill for five days in a five-day window after confirmation that gives us a lot of flexibility and latitude for people at high risk of
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hospitalization. there were some less strong results from the pfizer trial for people who are kind of at standard risk or regular people, including vaccinated people. but there will probably be more data forthcoming at a minimum this is a big step forward. now we have to make sure we have enough supply of the drug because there will definitely be demand. >> i thought it was three to five after symptoms, not after a positive covid test because it will take you probably 24 hours to get a positive covid test back. >> right it's confirmation of covid-19 diagnosis, so that could be a test if you're an asymptomatic and high risk or an onset of symptoms so it gives you, again, some flexibility there, which is good the key here is that the pivotal trial results confirmed what the interim results. contrast that to merck where we saw a real reduction in the efficacy i think merck will still be good for high-risk patients and i think supply will be some of the limiting steps in the next
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several months hoping the fda takes some action, we could have this drug for a christmas surge which we expect in early january. >> do you think that the fda will only authorize this right now for high-risk patients because of those very concerns about how much availability there will be? >> it's a good question. i think this is one of those drugs much like merck's where there will be spirited discussion the data stands on its own we'll have to look at the full data package once it becomes more public. i suspect because of the nature of, quote, high risk, they'll limit it to people, for example, with certain chronic conditions, people over the age of 65, and also potentially limiting it to only unvaccinated individuals. so the reason i stress that is because i don't want people who are not getting vaccines to think, aha, here's my substitute for a vaccine. we should not think about it that way this just gives us one more tool in kind of a -- >> wait a second, you said they would limit it to only people
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who would not be vaccinated? >> no, no, no. i'm saying that's a possibility that because of supply that they would prioritize people who were unvaccinated simply because if you look at the data, the inclusion of vaccinated individuals yields less strong results. so you can imagine an advisory committee even signaling language that this trial data supports the use in unvaccinated individuals. but i would be very concerned about that message being sent that you don't need to get vaccinated. >> so you think that's something the fda could do that you don't think they should? >> correct, exactly. but if you stick to the data, which is what the fda does, the data supports this the trial results that we're talking about that are stunning are in unvaccinated individuals. >> how long do you think it will be before a pill like this is readily available for anybody who's been exposed to covid? don't worry about your high-risk factors, whether you're
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vaccinated, unvaccinated, because that seems like the point where everybody can just breathe a sigh of relief with this. >> yeah, i do think that we're on -- there are companies that are working on that. in fact pfizer having looked at their data from inclusion of vaccinated individuals is already working on how to think about something broader that could be, for example, used for travel prophylaxis, people who want to do this in advance i think that the astrazeneca monoclonal antibody is also a signal, people who can take that before they are exposed to any high-risk covid situation. so, becky, you're pointing out what i hope is our near-term future we can take things in advance of high-risk events or if we're in a high-risk profession we can protect ourselves but this needs to be on top of a vaccine. i just don't see this as being a basis to substitute vaccination. but to your point, to protect us going forward from future risk but remember the risk is really hospitalization and death. i think we're all getting used
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to the fact that getting the mild symptoms even if you're vaccinated is actually a success of the vaccines, not a failure >> dr. patel, a couple of questions. in the here and now, given that it's unlikely that these pills are going to be available at scale, at least in the next month or two, and maybe even longer than that in terms of true scale, and given this new variant and its growth in norway, they're now talking about they have a thousand cases a day and now they're saying it could be as much as 300,000 cases a day that they're projecting in terms of what you're expecting to see over the next several weeks, even the next six weeks here in the united states, what are you imagining and do you expect it to change behavior or force it to change behavior given what we're seeing in the uk, for example >> i don't expect it to change behavior simply because i'm watching kind of a fatigued pandemic public that really just
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if you're vaccinated feels like, and they should, that they're confident in their vaccines and they want to get back to travel and social activities. so i'm not sure that it will force a behavior change that's massive. maybe more regional, like what you're seeing in new york with masks, for example but to your point, andrew, we're already seeing these breakthrough positive infections, so we definitely would love to have additional use of monoclonals where appropriate. we're waiting on some of that data, early signs that it's not as effective against omicron andrew, i'm dealing with a delta surge here and now, so i feel very comfortable sending those patients for monoclonals we have shortages in parts of our country in that aspect on top of that, i am recommending high-risk patients to restrict movements because we're seeing so much viral spread delta, until we have proof that omicron is replacing delta, i'm dealing with what we know. that much we know. delta is surging and its primarily -- what's good is we're seeing a decoupling. we're seeing an increase in cases but not that same
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proportionate increase in hospitalizations and deaths. but if people continue to have their immunity wane, vaccinated individuals who might not get boosted in time, we could see that trend change and that's what we're bracing for >> what do you tell business leaders who are watching today on this front, there's a lot of companies that are considering moving or having people come back to mostly white collar jobs back in the office, full on, hopefully without masks come january. some have pushed those back already. that's a little bit different than some of the what might be described as factory work or other things where in some cases those are now unmasked too but harder to do certain jobs with masks on, without, and how you're thinking about that come january or even now? >> yeah, i know there are a lot of people that want to delay returning back to work if you're not essential. i can certainly understand that,
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but i have been encouraging employers instead of just delaying to actually think to your point, andrew, about bringing people back in. but what you need to do to help them feel safe number one, having people vaccinated on site is one of the first ways i agree that if you can do this without masks, wearing masks for ten hours, if everyone is vaccinated, doesn't make as much sense as having everyone vaccinated with some testing options for flexibility. i think that becomes a better option to even -- and i've been saying to employers if you have the ability to bring kind of a proportion of your workforce back in january, to pilot this start 25% of your workforce, implement a testing strategy i understand that that can be costly, but think about the pros and cons, because frankly i've seen a lot more employers saying that even their non-essential personnel are just less productive and they're watching those. you've reported on it, you've all three talked about it. there's just declines in what's happening after three years almost of doing this so that's what we have to think about. going into year three of this pandemic, how can we shift
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mindset and make returning to work more normal it doesn't have to be all or none so start with a proportion of employees. try to have a strategy, everybody being vaccinated and of course there are exceptions, et cetera, but putting in testing so that people can actually stop wearing masks if they want to >> you bring up the point that we are coming up to the two-year anniversary of this and you say nobody should be at work if they're unvaccinated that is easier said than done. we're seeing all kinds of companies who have people unvaccinated working through it all who say they don't want to make them get vaccinated what would you say if there are still unvaccinated people walking around the workplace, and what kroger just did was to try to offer an incentive that's more of a stick than a carrot. what would you tell people about allowing people unvaccinated in the workplace? >> becky, this is hard i've been working in hospitals where we've had to reverse mandates because we've had problems with staffing so i understand kind of the tension of having to make sure
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that you can allow for different situations almost essentially. but i do think that this is critical if you're going to allow for unvaccinated individuals, it's not that they are a threat to the vaccinated workers, it's quite the opposite and i think that's the conflict that hr managers or just managers in general have to deal with so you can make the work space safe, but it becomes incredibly isolating, becky, to say, okay, this is the work space area for people who are unvaccinate and when we have a conference with individual a, we all have to wear masks again. there is no better way to kind of segment a working population than to do that. so that becomes -- what i've recommended to employers, if you're going to allow unvaccinated workers in place, then you really do have like kind of this hybrid modality in the office space, not just the testing, but that you actually have like an acknowledgement that we're going to all wear masks and we're going to have to do this -- >> so it's not just the unvaccinated people wearing
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masks? everybody should be wearing masks if there are unvaccinated people around? >> they have to. remember, the mask really doesn't protect you from others, it's protecting others from you. that's what we're trying to do with unvaccinated individuals. but you see easily that sentiment becomes untenable in the long term. >> i in the long term which i think it's smart to start with a proportionate people that are vaccinated because none of these things become normal until you just start to actually show people it's possible. >> dr. patel, thank you. >> thanks. coming up, when we return, gamestop, robinhood and others is the meme stock dead we'll find out, next and later, slack's co-founder and ceo stewart butterfield is going to join us. "squawk" returns after this.
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welcome back to "squawk. the so-called meme stock getting slammed in trading yesterday but that's nothing new check out the one-month performance of high-flying names, amc and robin hood, j gamestop down by more than a third. joining us, tracy, what happened to the diamond hands?
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>> what do you think is underlying this? >> i think it's a couple things, andrew a lot of these, they kind of had their 15 minutes, gamestop is still gamestop and amc is still amc. just meaning i'm not sure what was there to start with than kind of an explosion something that i think people don't talk about with what's important with the move, most of the brokerage firms in america, part of big movement on the stocks, they've raised it so high, no one has reduced them yet. it's almost impossible to us in any strategies in the meme stocks that's part of the reason, they're pretty much untradeable right now. >> how much do you correlate the fall in some of those stocks with the fall in crypto? we're looking at bitcoin, 47,
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48,000, off the high, from the mid-60s? >> sure. i think for gamestop and amc, i would say, you know, there's a correlation, because there's a lot of the same money moving around, on the front end, with respect to the stocks it's pril really with respect to robinhood, obviously the doge coin explosion, some of the crypto explosion, really helped their bottom line. and when dogecoin dried up, i think that hurt robin hood dramatically -- i know it hurt robin hood dramatically, they were a pseudo crypto play, and that pretty much killed their stock. >> what do you think overnight, elon musk tweeting he's going to sell it and use togdoge as the currency >> i saw that, i thought it was
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pretty cute. i like elon just being elon. but i think it's a little more of -- i think a little of that, you know, it's a little contrary to elon, and being a self-promoter in elon. i don't really too much into it, i don't think that dogecoin has the upside that he was talking about, listen, it sounds good, it's a good take >> and with some of the margins, playing the stocks, some were very clever early on understanding how to create a short squeeze? how do you think about it today? >> i think it's virtually impossible, most of the brokerage firms they don't allow shorts of options in these firms and if they do, they don't a allow shorting of firms, too and it's basically cash secured. so it's almost impossible strategically.
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but i do think each one of these stocks have a really high implied volt till which means the expected moves -- robin hood is eye $19 over the next month $4.50 expected move, based on option pricing i mean, that's the kind of volatility that actually is pretty interesting, you know, to a retail investor, listen you can buy or sell stalk at $19.50, you pretty much know within the next month it's back to 23 or 24 it's a decent move and tradeable. >> tom, great to see you thanks. coming up, fed coming, we'll get the latest out of washington and what to expect with senator pat toomey plus, slack ceo stewart butterfield joins us with the impact of omicron. we'll be right back.
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breaking news, pfizer out with very promising data of a study of its covid antiviral pill the risk of hospitalizations and deaths slashed significantly meanwhile, we're just minutes away from new data
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officials are watching this one carefully. speaking of the fed, tapering are we about to get a faster bond tapering? we'll get into that debate the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now ♪ good morning, and welcome back to "squawk box" on cnbc we start at 6:00 a.m and if we can be here, you can set your clicker, wherever, roll over, hit your clicker, start at 6:00, we're live from the nasdaq market site, i'm joe kernen along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin nasdaq taking down a bit, the s&p indicate it's off just less than 11 points
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treasuries fell again, t the yields last night, overnight, 1.438 this morning. got a big fed meeting that's going to happen later today. >> yeah, people are waiting that pretty eagerly we've also got breaking news on pfizer's antiviral pill. finding the data coming ins with earlier results of a key study but that is a very good thing. the drug giant merck had seen results in the interim read it had. pfizer's pill actually showed 89% risk of hospitalizations or death when medication was given within three days of patients with covid symptoms. we'll get an update in a few minutes. pfizer shares initially turned up but down by 30 cents. andrew >> thank you, becky. big-time stock movers, nine minute goes to dom chu >> good morning. first of all, some the big
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action happening with chinese tech-related stocks. overnight, we were got news that the chinese government, the chinese communist company, had levied fines on weibo. as a result of that, other names taking a hit pinduoduo, net tease and and alibaba. cracking down on the big technology names, keep an eye on that space a lot of red on the screen also what's happening on the reopening trade on the pfizer news that you guys have just talked about a little bit, a check on travel-related names like alaska air and marriott both fractionally higher royal caribbean down
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fractionally in trade. and companies relatively unstable occidental and darden, and then as we go often in this hour of "squawk box," a check of the tickers searched on the website from yesterday's trading session. the number one to ck ticker. and analysts calling it one of the top picks for 2022 and bna, and tesla also in there, elon musk sharing more shares, down 1.5%. gamestop down 3.5% amc down 6%. arena pharmaceuticals following up on that big day yesterday on
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the pfizer acquisition news. the rest of the top-ten, becky, on my twitter feed back over to you >> dom, real chquick, i was goig to ask you about amc before you brought that up, and others, wow. one month ago, amc, you know, 45 21 today you know what i was doing a month ago? gamestop -- a week ago -- no a month ago, 2.50, less than a month ago, 1:30 today. >> it seems like not that long ago, but it was almost a year ago, right, when we were talking about the robin hood phenomenon, the meme stock frenzy, january, february of this year, right i was looking at a full-one year chart of amc, it's pretty crazy just the kind of ride we've seen over the past year with that
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stock. >> are they cheap? are they cheap >> i have no idea -- >> would you say either one is finished going down? >> i mean, look at that, 60 bucks going down >> i know. i'm not ready to say, okay, this is the bottom. >> no, i've heard too many stories about falling knives and cutting fingers, that kind of thing. it's tough for traders to figure out what's going on now. but for the longest time now for the course of the last several months there's been a debate whether fundamentals drive the stock more than momentum does. it this case, it looks like momentum is the driver >> thank you the economy in focus today, just under 30 minutes were you trour inflation data also the fed kicking off the latest two-day policy meeting. a lot of investors expecting the central bank to accelerate the tapering of its bond purchases we're also waiting for any new clues of when the fed will hike the interest rates
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joining us to talk about this, senator pat toomey the lead republican on the senate committee and in the committee on the uses and risks of stable points we'll get to that in just a moment senator, let's start with inflation and the fed. last week with consumer prices we've got the hottest level than we've seen in nearly 40 years. what's your anticipation for this number? and what can we do about it? >> well, you know, i think the fed has gotten trefl way behind the curve. i own view the tapering should have started a year ago. but at least now, it looks pretty clear that they are changing the direction of this shift. and hopefully, we'll find out later this week that there's an agreement to accelerate the tapering, as everybody expects and i think the box is going to look a little different than it did last time. i'm hoping that we're going to accelerate a normalization as you know very well, your viewers know, tapering is not a contractual mon tore policy.
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it's just slowing down the rate at which we continue this expansion rate, monetary policy. it's long overdue. i'm glad to see that the fed is shifting course. >> we've already had several guest this week, calling for the fed, instead of raising rates to shrink the balance sheet instead. pointing out definitely that liquidity has had impact with elevating prices and maybe that's the better way to do it what do you think about that >> yeah, i think that's a very important part for discussion, sigh hope that is on the table what is the pace at which they begin to shrink the balance sheet. my guess is because we haven't gotten much indication from the fmoc about that being imminent that they're probably -- you know, they're letting us know to expect an increase in interest rates before they move to that step they certainly should be having that discussion to come up with a paradigm or framework by which they will normalize the balance sheet. >> you know, the fed is supposed
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to be out of politics, not in the business of listening to what you or any other senator or congressman thinks on this but i do wonder what the pressures they may be feeling. they're people, too. they've got to be hearing some of these things. not just what you're saying but probably what people like elizabeth warren are saying too, those who would like to don't make money freely available. what do you hear, kind of between the two sides, in terms of where maybe the bigger pressure is coming from, from the administration, from the senate, from the house >> so, you know, i think congress does have a role, and it's an oversight, role, right what i think of my job is to ensure that the fed is actually executing a mandate. not some other mandate or other areas someone might find interesting. in my view and others for me and my colleagues who share this
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view, you really can only maximize employment if you have reasonably stable prices that is an anchor. so, i think it's important to drive that message and the fed is certainly independent -- i don't claim to be an expert on whether we should have a 50-basis point or 25-basis point increment on any given day. but i think it's pretty clear, we've maintained emergency policies long after the emergency passed the fed is really allocating credit in the form of mortgage-backed securities even to this day. what do we have? we have this massive rally in housing prices and yet 00 here's the fed continuing to subsidize the purchase of houses i think it's appropriately appropriate for congress to remind the fed what the mission is and what their strength from it. >> senator, given your views of this fed in particular, do you support or will you seek to block if you could the
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renomination of jay powell and also your views on braynard? >> i said publicly and repeatedly, andrew, i'll be supporting chairman powell i think he's changed his view. he's acknowledged that the fed has gotten this wrong and they're moving in a much better direction now. i also think he had a very thoughtful and sensible approach to regulation. i also think that we might very well see developments in the direction of a central bank digital dollar and i think chairman powell has really good instincts and will lead the fed in a good direction, should the fed pursue that, which should be pursuant to legislation and all of that is to say there's another consideration, which i've got to ask myself, is this a refer endum or a choice.
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>> are you going to be supporting braynard? >> that is an open question. i'm liking forward to sitting down with her and discussing the change of issues that we need to cover. >> senator, i want to -- i don't need support but i'm still thinking about a discussion we had earlier. so, when you think about how much money we're able to spend here, the federal government, it would be nice if we didn't have any debt service, wouldn't it? how much could we spend on social -- what are do we spend percentage servicing the debt? and what does that leave to spend on really good social programs like education and health care and everything else? >> yeah. well, first of all, joe, i've got to back you up one step, because, honestly, i think some of these programs would be a bad idea if the money were free. the idea that we're going to throw thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars at american families who have plenty of income who have income that's multiples of the median income, we're
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going to give them free programs and free money because they have a child. you know, what is that really accomplished other than undermining a sense of personality responsibility. >> but if rates went up, senator, and debts went up and we want to maintain social service to the extent that we do don't we need to raise taxes to get money for the much needed programs? because we spend so much more on the debt service as a result, taxes go up and as we've seen in europe, if taxes get to the point to support all of these entitled programs, your gdp is affected >> totally >> yeah, no, you could anyone argue otherwise? >> well, you can't credibly. unless you want the fed to monetize it. >> right then you got to raise rates and that will hurt the economy >> that is right there is no free lunch milton freeman reminded us of
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this, it's still true. you're absolutely right, as long as interest rates are zero, you can be lulled into this complacency and run up debt. some people think all of this spending is a good thing even if you do think it's a good thing, how about the damage you're going to do to the economy if you inevitably raise taxes. >> another issue is maybe that's another reason for shrinking the balance sheet first. that will allow you to sort of get a little bit of a free lunch there, if you're doing that, instead of raising rates and the debt >> yeah, i don't know how the markets would react with that, with the curve react except that the markets pretty much anticipate at least a gradual normalization of interest rates and reaction has been relatively benign in the treasury market. if the surprise came out that we're going to have a relatively rapid decline in the size of the balance sheet -- >> i want to talk about staple
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points very quickly. you're going to be hearing about stable points today. >> yeah. >> and this is important because you are concerned that the administration this point is perhaps taking some measures or advocating take something measures that would inping on stable coins on their growth and ability to innovate at this point. what do you think? >> yeah, first, this is a really exciting new technology. it creates opportunities and possibilities for faster payments over time, i think, for virtually free payments. there's the programmability, which i think is a very, very exciting innovation in finance so, what i want to do is make sure we don't do anything to stifle this tremendous technology the president's working group came out with a report that you may be aware of, and they recommend that all stable coin issuers must be ensured the positivy institutions
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they do not in many ways look like banks and so should not be subject to bank regulations. so, i'm going to release later today a set of principles that i would like to see as the guideline for legislation we should develop we're going to hear today from experts and participants in the market and i hope we're going to end up with a sensible, thoughtful regulatory regime that allows innovation to thrive >> real quick, senator, the other thing, joe manchin, poor guy, he's going to be a man without a country or a pariah. let's say he does something at 1.325 trillion, is he going to look the other way the financial mumbo jumbo? how can he get that five-year deal -- it's not a one-year deal paid with ten years of taxes how is it going to look like to sign up if he doesn't like mark
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warner and say i accept the cbo? if they don't see it, what's he going to do? >> so joe manchin to his credit many months ago said i'm inconcerned about the inflation that we have and what has happened in the meantime, joe manchin has been vindicated inflation is even worse than we expected many people expected it's here, it's bad. and, by the way, what i call bernie's budget buster, this bill is really bernie's bill, $5 trillion of new spending over ten year which is is their intention. it's $3 trillion of debt of course, it's going to make inflation worse. i think the sensible thing for joe manchin is to say there's no way we should move this for several months to see how inflation plays out. >> now, he's signal, i'm okay with one or two. i wonder if he's going to fold and say it's 1.375 trillion.
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>> it's much more. he's been right about inflation. >> i know, but he's also a democrat he's not switching parties he'll get on thanks the ceo of slack joins us to talk about the future of work with omicron threatening in-person returns. stay tuned, you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit
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we're talking about the producer inflation number that will hit in a few minutes next, the slack ceo llwi joining, we'll ask him if omicron has cemented the work environment. "squawk box" will be right back. will be one of partnership and trust. i am a fiduciary, not just some of the time, but all of the time. charles schwab is proud to support the independent financial advisors who are passionately dedicated to helping people achieve their financial goals. visit
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we've got some breaking news this morning on pfizer's anti-covid drug. meg has more details good morning >> hey, andrew, so, pfizer presenting the final result of its drug pill, coming in at 89% reduction in risk of hospitalization or death when given within three days of symptoms it was 88% for folks who got it within five days these are important results because the fda had been waiting according to pfizer's ceo to see the final results after we saw quite a dramatic drop between merck and the final. the company presenting data from
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a trial in standard risk patients meaning those unvaccinated who don't have a risk factor for severe disease but those who are unvaccinated but do have a factor like age or health condition while that released the symptom or hospitalization, it did see 70%. although the numbers are small there was a ten-fold decrease in fire load showing the drug targets it well. you asked earlier about the difference between the two results, the difference is in the hospitalization rate in the placebo group. people at standard risk were hospitalized at 2.4%, compared to the high risk, more patients follows high-risk of severe disease. we'll see how quickly the fda can act on this, but pfizer saying new data exists that holds up well against omicron, so can make a difference guys. >> meg, i know we've got to run
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in terms of distribution and time line and scale, what do you think is realistic >> well, they're hoping that the nch could potentially clear this by the end of the year, but then we know that the supply will take a little time to ramp-up. the u.s. has ordered 10 million courses, those will come in over the course of the year scale is a good question, we'll have to see how quickly there will be a lot of this in the system for a lot of folks. >> meg tirrell, appreciate it, thanks meantime, omicron is just hitting so many companies that are planning on bringing their employees back to the office google has now pushed back its return beyond january 10th for ford back in march docusign will assess their plans as 2022 unfolds. all of this means more remote work i want to talk to an expert about it, slak ceo stewart
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butterfield. stewart, good to see you i'm curious how your own expectations have changed over the last several months and what it means for the business? >> i think i've been on a pretty shallow roller coaster, because i never -- i had the expectation that people were coming back to the office, monday through friday, 9:00 to 5:00 for 18 months now i have had the pleasure, you know, maybe half a dozen or so in-person events and it's been great. i think the expectation that we're going to be back even the two days a week thing meets outside of the possibility that people are outside the hospital location the hybrid thing is not a term i love, but the hybrid environment is here to stay forever. going back to the office two days a week didn't seem like a decrease from five, it seems like an increase >> this has been with us about a year since you merged with salesforce i'm curious how it has changed
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for you and how you think the business on to itself is changing? and technology, and how you're communicating with each other? >> yeah, we've only had one quarter since the deal actually closed in late july of this year it's been pretty great it's obviously a very exciting time i think it's had a positive impact on slack's business the model coming in at $250 million revenue for the quarter, $280 i think the revenue is going to show up. the depth of usage, the additional presence in large enterprise, and the possibilities for platform work. so the importance of software in helping people to get their work done is something that is highlighted. i like this thought experiment february in march 2020, imagine a world where we could all go back to the office, have meetings, working lunches, but had no access to software, most of our companies would cease to
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exist in 24 hours. even with collaboration before all of this started, i think as time goes on, people are realizing the importance of that and opportunities they have to make a difference and be thoughtful about how people work >> so, today, we might live in a virtual universe, essentially powered by the likes of slack. i'm curious what you think of a digital universe called the metaverse, and whether you think that's the future of work? >> it's a little hard for me to imagine putting the goggles on all day. one of the things we see successful is trying to take processes that it may be synchronous and replace them with async k we have this hammer that ask zoom call which is like a hammer, and huddle, a more
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casual existence of a phone call, kind of re-creating the serendipity of office. and that's a huge success. we're having minimal amount of multimedia interface between each other >> i'm a big hugler. we should talk about the ethics of huddling. nd people say, you can huddle now and people hit the button, what do you do >> it's funny, with that legacy, 100-plus years that rings when the other person wanted it to ring it's fully negotiating the etiquette as you said. that does have the demand for your attention, the ability to enter and leave is one of the highlights >> but, don't you think that over some period of time there will be a future that will live in some kind of v-all world, and
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if so, where does slack fit into that >> i can see the industrial applications honestly, it feels like we've been having this conversation for 25 years now it's probably been 23 years, we talked about engineers wearing vr goggles back in the late '90s and early between thes, while building a jet that makes a lot of sense. people stocking shelves. certain retail operations, certainly, medicine but for people working on a power point with a chart that shows projections for the next quarter sales, the additional value of being like in a cartoon yuvs with the people you work with, i don't see the value. but i also feel like that would be really annoying >> stewart butterfield, we're going to have to huddle. appreciate it. great to see you this morning. >> so that's what happened to boeing, taking those things off and maybe looked at actually what they were doing with a few of these, right answer, maybe that's it.
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wow. rick santoli is standing by with the cme in chicago with breaking economic data. rick, the numbers please >> yes, a november read on producer price index up 0.8s of 1% that's hotter than expected. if you remove food, energy and trade, it is up 0.7, also hotter than expected. you just remove food and energy it's up 0.7. food and energy, 0.7, food, energy and trade up 0.7. the year over year numbers, up 9.6% on head line producer price index. that is a new record and if we look at ex-food and energy, year over year, and these go up, because he recalculate a little differently, so that's the most recent if you we look at year over
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year, food, energy, trade, up 6% so, all of the numbers are hotter than expected and of course, we should expect this to happen we so transitory has been retired. we know the consumer price index we had last week was hot as well but yet, we continue to see the long duration, the long maturities, 10s, 20s, 30s, on the treasury side. the rates aren't as responsive as we think. they're negative on negative territory. we see the yield curve remaining flat and the maturities very responsive this week because we have the fed meeting most likely, the rates will rise quicker and that's why the curve has been acting the way it has joe, back to you >> 39 years, rick, i did some math -- is that like 1982. so, we're coming down. we are coming down at that
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point. we had already peaked. so, for to us hit new highs and say 40-year, 41-year high, 42, 50, 60, what are those numbers what are we talking about, is it 8%, 9% what were those, do you remember >> 8yes. well, the actual interest rates back in those years were in the mid-teens. mortgage rates in early '80s, were 13.5%, you had a 30-year bond right in that vicinity, so, yes, we're a long way away from those areas but also remember that in the '80s we changed the way we look at houses and rent this is a big deal peter boockvar writes about this all the time, rents have gone up, captured some in of the reports, the actual price of a house has gone up much more aggressively there's many aspects of data
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i'm not saying they're inaccurate they're just different but the feeling when you think you have to look at things like college, health care, home equivalent rent, some of the things they've changed in the county meaning you can't include the price of a car stripped down you have to get your lane changed. all of these features add to the price of a car all of this makes living, the cost of living much more expensive. it's just a matter of trying to handicap it to an apples to apples state and that gets more and more difficult because the bureau of labor statistics has morphed how they make the calculations. >> i guess can could be worse. but just look at the highest inflation rate in u.s. history, rick it was 29.78, back in 1778 so, that's 1917, 19.6%. >> you know what, yeah, it took a lot of money to buy those
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triangular hats back then. i remember reading about that. >> but it averaged 3.25% we're double that since 1917. >> that's an interesting ing exercise, joe, you and i included many years we said the anomaly to inflation was the '70s and '80s, the high water mark that we were always the most frightened. truly out of a 15-year pass there maybe a bit less, interest rates historically are much lower. so we're going to change that perception this time around. and i also caution, there's so many difficult things to explain. you know >> yeah. when i'm in a crowd, trying to talk about this, i try to explain it we uninfluencinged the global economy, we literally unplugged the u.s. economy, to think we could unplug it and have it go
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dark, and not think we're going to experience strange activity the policies and activity combined is going to make the prices hot, hot, hot for a long time >> steve liesman joins us, not double digits, steve but 9.6 on ppi >> yeah, got to go back, joe i got to use the old methodology for the ppi. and 19.8% was the number. >> ooh >> back in 1980, i believe it was -- hang on, i'm still calculating it there it is. yeah, it's like 1980 for that. that's where it gets -- look, here's the problem, the problem is -- >> we're going to start fixing it today >> yeah. you know, joe, i'm kind of perplexed with they can't fix some of this, honestly the idea about unloaded ships, i think we know how to do that, you know get santelli out there, take his
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jacket off, roll the sleeves up. we'll all join in. we'll all join in. unloading ships seems crazy. let me tell you two things about this story here. one, it's not just the final demand it's that you still have inflationary pressures in the pipeline here. intermediate goods unprocessed goods. so there's no sign that the pipeline of price increases is easing so, that's going to still -- and just a reminder that this whole thing started with producer prices being on the increase and that bled over into consumer prices the other thing, again, service sector inflation, you've got quite a bit of that. so, that's another issue with the ten-year is behaving the way it's behaving not afraid of inflation but instead more concerned about rate hikes i'll leave that to sick but it's a puzzle that a lot of people i've talked to still don't understand seems like they're concerned
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about the mistake, not by rising rates. >> you've got a big day ahead. >> big day >> talk to you about it tomorrow coming up, jim cramer's first take on the latest inflation. reminder, you can listeniv le using the cnbc app please stay tuned. "squawk box" will be right back. jerry is here! j! mate, how are ya!? it's so good to see you. good to see all of you, yeah! why is jerry so... popular? it's been like this ever since we started using workday. what do you mean? it makes it easier to develop great relationships with our suppliers. now everyone, everywhere loves jerry. they sure do. they do. they really do. mmhmm. workday. finance, hr, planning and spend management for a changing world.
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coming up, we're talking d.c.'s biggest issues at the moment, inflation, build back better, work for jobs, unionize, and so much more the former american enterprise president arthurro boks is going to join us stay tuned you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc pen. so let the geico insurance agency help you with homeowners insurance and protect yourself from things like fire, theft, or in this case, water damage. now if i had to guess i'd say somewhere upstairs there's a broken pipe. geico. save even more when you bundle home and car insurance at
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(naj) at fisher investments, our clients know we have their backs.
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(other money manager) how do your clients know that? (naj) because as a fiduciary, it's our responsibility to always put clients first. (other money manager) so you do it because you have to? (naj) no, we do it because it's the right thing to do. we help clients enjoy a comfortable retirement. (other money manager) sounds like a big responsibility. (naj) one that we don't take lightly. it's why our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. fisher investments is clearly different. we new producer prices were going to be hot, but that number came out at 8:30 even hotter than people anticipated. the up 9.6% year over year
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nasdaq down. and s&p 500 down by 27 let's go to jim cramer jim, with the numbers stark, it makes you think where the fed is headed >> absolutely. becky, what that's saying, the fed is going to tighten, not that the fed is going to taper, the fed is going to tighten. it's good if you want to pick among the rubble here, they're already reacting to what the tighten is going to be if you look at the nasdaq, the stocks go ing down, those at multiple of sales, those have been frothy and coming out, geez, look at these, this is unbelievable these companies are very real,
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very good, but very expensive. it's coming out after the meeting but not before it's pretty harsh out there. >> hey, jim, even before the losses we saw today, you were talking about the nasdaq about 5% from an all-time high >> right. >> you've still talking about valuations that have come a long way in a long time if the fed did raise rates where do you tell people to go instead? >> well, i think they need to be in companies that make things and do things. companies that actually -- i know that sounds simplistic. but when you take a look at companies that have gone up on the nasdaq, you ask people what they do, what they make, i think people are very hard-pressed i bet you 90% of users don't know that okta is super security i like snowflake very much people don't understand what
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snowflake does it's like five below i don't mean to be cruel, i'm just saying when you look at the meme stocks is gamestop worth half of what best buy is worth i don't think so but people wanted it when it was worth more than best buy you've got the meme people being fleshed out. and you got prices sales down down, some of this happened in 2014, some of some of this in 2016 many companies going public. they don't stop. the flood has to stop and there's no end to it it will end, and when it ends, it will be good for us because what we'll do, we'll look at the stocks that have come down a lot and pick some that have good numbers >> it's too soon to catch a falling one? >> yeah. let's see what jay says. but a lot of stocks i really like, nvidia, advanced micro
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they're coming down, there's nothing going on, i sold some advanced micro, because of a charitable trust what sigh thought was reasonable, 170s, 180. when i looked at it, it looked like i was a genius, no, it was just going up a lot. what's happening is the air is coming out of the nasdaq and the money is still going to the j&js of the world. and they makes stop or go. and that means a lot of companies yet to go. a lot of junk came public. probably like ten are good >> jim, thank you. we'll be listening for more analysis on this in just a few minutes. >> oh, yeah, it's not great. thank you. >> thank you >> by the way, folks, if you haven't signed up for the new cn investing club, what are you waiting for, go to the code on the screen, it will take you
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directly there with the prices coming in, producer price index, coming in 0.8% higher. high inflation, already one thing, complicating the passage of president biden's build back better plan. the other factor, the plan's overall cost joining us, american enterprise arthur brooks. always in a good mood. harvard professor. and host of podcast how to build a happy life it's a little tough when the america i wake up to is unrecognizable every day. >> oh, no. >> all of the crap you've been spewing, the pursuit of happiness with the y, and be happy with your political enemies, none is working, we're
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up schitt's creek without a paddle >> all right, where do we start, joe, we've only got seven or eight minutes. let's put things in perspective a little bit look, this is my favorite show, i watch it every day and you know i love you. but you have to remember the most important things in our lives are not just the things we're talking about when it comes to the price level not just what we're talking about with respect to the crisis of the day even politics. when you look at what actually matters to people's lives at the very most, joe, if you want to be happy, andrew, becky, me, we want to be happy, we have to remember it's our faith, our family, our friends, and serving people with our work after we turn off "squawk box," this is the only show that people should watch. they should watch this and then go on with the rest of their day. and say no matter what the price level is that's not going to affect my love life. that's not going to affect my faith life it's not going to affect my
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friendship >> i don't like the inflation number and i hope it's not as bad as we think. and i hope a lot of it is supply chain. i'm talking about in general i don't know whether to blame social media you always tell me i have to love people i disagree with. i'm to get beyond that -- or how the other side is going to get beyond things like this. arthur, is it different this time is it social media is there any way back from where we are now i know we came together after september 11th, t2001, but thats a little bit drastic for something like that to happen to bring us together. the pandemic certainly didn't. >> we don't want a war or terrorist attack to bring us together there are more times in history that have been this polarized or more polarized. >> the civil war >> after that.
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there have been times in the 20th century when frankly delano roosevelt said in one of his most celebrated speeches, they hate me and i welcome their hate. you know we're in that situation as well. aspirational leaders figure out that there's a market advantage to getting beyond this i'm looking at data today so that 93% of americans hate how divided we've become the number one threat to our country right now is actually the fact that more than half of democrats and more than half of republicans think the biggest threat to america is people who vote for the other party let's just wrap that up with a bow and give it to the chinese for christmas. we're fighting ourselves and we think each other are the enemy in a dangerous world smart politicians, good leaders -- i meet them every day. they're looking for the opportunity to enter into political race and is make public statements along these lines. i'm encouraging this as much as i can, joe, to say if 93% of
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americans hate it, only 7% don't. that's the outraged industrial complex that profit when we hate if the 93% don't like it, that's an opportunity for great leaders like ronald reagan coming off the 1970s, it was a horribly polarized time. and ronald reagan made us -- gave so many of us a big majority of americans confidence in this country, confidence in each other, and, look, my family didn't like ronald reagan. my parents told me that ronald reagan was going to get us into a war and throw granny out into the snow but i was a kid. and i saw him on tv and i said, i don't know about the politics, but that man loves me. that's the opportunity that a democrat or republican has to bring the self-improvement et those back to this nation and say, remember, the democrat next door is not the threat to this country. the people who want to take away
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our entrepreneurial society. >> okay. you should have your own show, i think. i don't know what it would be called or what network it would be on. you got comments are you feeling any better, buddy? >> my question for arthur is this, you talk about, like, your neighbor on one side and taking away certain parts of your life or not and right now it feels in many ways in part as a function of the pandemic that people on different sides of the aisle, perhaps, feel that way some people literally think that your neighbor, the unvaccinated neighbor is putting your life at risk, right? that's part of this conversation other people think there should be mandates. other people think there shouldn't be mandates. other people think you should wear a mask, you shouldn't where a mask there is a political strain to all of that and it -- in large part, it's not a function of science necessarily.
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how do you -- how do you resolve that >> yeah. so the covid vaccine and mandates and all this business, this is a symptom of the bigger problem. everything has become politicized. no matter what you find becomes kind of a societal break it becomes an opportunity for us to express our political opinions or our ideological differences in the context of the politics of the day. covid actually really is a big deal the vaccines -- taking the vaccines, whether we have mandates, these are very important public policy questions. but the reason that they're so unbelievably polarizing, we could have an issue of whether we should have egg salad or tuna salad for lunch. everything becomes an expression for that if we had presidential leadership that was truly trying to bring the country together,
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that was talking about the true deep importance of unity as opposed to the radical bases on either side. mainstream, moderate democrats are deeply, deeply afraid of the cultural left and the populists or the -- i should say the mainstream republicans are deeply afraid of the populist right. as long as you're afraid of these things, you're going to have a vacuum for the kind of leadership, the unifying leadership that we need and everything will become a political expression we need a backbone from the people who love this country and are willing to work together and actually believe there's a lot we can do, despite our basically cosmetic differences on most issues. >> i don't think tuna salad or egg salad -- both have mayo, right? i can't really -- i'm -- neither
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one of those works for me at this point what >> i love his essage. >> the message was good. >> joe says i need a show. >> you do need a show. >> i want to be in person with all of you i miss all of you. i want to be on set with all of you. >> media is so divided, there's no place that would have you, because you p.o. -- you would have to be on one side or the other. i people live in their own echo chamber. look at the other ones, they're nuts they speak to their own tribe. they're so tribal, it's unbelievable i can't recognize them. >> we love you, arthur. >> i love you guys too thanks. coming up, what to watch ahead of the opening bell on wall street. stay tuned, you're watching
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final check on the markets this morning ahead of the opening bell about a half-hour before we open up s&p 500 down about 28 points
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dow off 101 points now and the nasdaq off about 171 points. we did have that good news from pfizer, but a lot of folks i think anxious about what we may hear from the fed. in the meantime, make sure you join us tomorrow "squawk on the street" begins right now. ♪ good tuesday morning welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm david faber along with jim cramer we're going to have a lower open, it would seem, unless something changes between now and 9:30 it starts with inflation risks both for consumers and investors. wholesale prices rising at the fastest pace on record and that moved the futures a bit lower. plus, tesla tumbling shares are down no


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