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tv   Tech Check  CNBC  December 30, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm EST

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let's take a look at the market here as the dow jones industrials average goes for sen in a row today the s&p 500 tries to notch its 71st record close of the year. by the way, it's only the first time since 1990 that the s&p is going to beat the averages for a year return. s&p is sitting over 4800 that's going to do it for us today. been fun t"techtech -- "tech check" begi right now. ♪ >> good thursday morning welcome to "tech check." heeditor and chief and host of e podcast joins us once again this hour today
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it's about driving higher. stocks continue to set new records. to new levels in 2021 and where investors are hungry for returns to look next year. tesla announcing it a series of recalls today. we'll talk about why the company cannot get out of its own way o manufacturing issues and finally, put in the hours but what about the quarter h hours? commerce getting its 15 minutes of fame. the opportunity for stocks like amazon, uber, doordash taylor, welcome back to the 11 hour same time, different name. >> same time, different name there is a bet among the producers is, but i'm so thrilled to be joining at tech check. the close of the nainaugural yer and it has been an insane year for tech stocks, which is where we're going to start with m megacap tech investors favorites for 2021 despite recent weakness, as interest rates headed higher
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is 2022 the year to buy names at a discount three of wall street's fav favorites. wondering if they're more of the same hey, josh. >> so three big tech names making strong moves this yaear. let's start with apple and that stocks up about 35% this yaear and trading right around its all-time high. state d conskeptics say the stocks don' look cheap takes the another side that have bet and says apple is a buy because the iphone 13 cycle will be stronger than the street expects, he says and apple will pro introduce a new product next summer, he says, a mixed reality headset that's good to get investors excited. about apple's plan and what he believes is a critic al long tem team, the metaverse stock up about 50% and checked in with rbc and he says mi microsoft in his opinion, still a top pick for next year, saying
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it's leveraged to powerful trends and benefiting. the digital transformation of business benefiting business and the popularity of hybrid work models benefiting teams. a risk trying to execute on a lot of growth drivers and swings and misses that could open opportunities up for rivals like amazon and a alphabet and we'll end here on enviedia stock up about 130% this yaear. remember it was up about 120% in 20 20 no surprise some are getting nervous here about valuation and bush maintains a neutral rading on rating on this name. yes, he says that the fundamentals are strong but a lot of the good news is priced d in at these levels back to you all. >> josh, you're going to keep chatting some of these tech names. i want to bring in nile because you heard josh talking about some of these tech companies and i'm wondering if you agree with
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some of those theses he just laid out because apple, yes, it has benefited from the last couple of years that we've seen in the economy, but it's going to start 2022 with the headlines that a lot of retail stores are going to be closed because of the omicron virus. i wonder where you think that story picks up in the middle of the month. >> i think the story of apple stores closing, opening, good headlines. apple has a huge retail work force, but they did really well selling online and moving their business online into the earlier part of the pandemic what i would point out is apple really reengineered how iphones are sold with the 12 and the 13. they went into deep carrier substaidies. they got on to that carrier 5g cycle. there was a lot of alignment between the carriers trying to get people on to the 5g network so they can shut down the 4g network. i don't know how much longer that cycle lasts the another thing is i'm very excited for their headset, but
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the headset is not going to be a market as big as the phone so getting people to wear something on their face all day long that's a big step, and i think will be some excitement around it but i think it's just not going to be quite as big as the phone until they can make it much smaller is that a short term or a long term prediction? i know that talked about the headsets potentially in the long run, i suppose, cannibalizeing that iphone market because potentially we will be living in the metaverse and there won't b as much needi for a phone i just wonder what makes you think that what's the timeframe >> look, the metaquest 2 is a great headset. the quest app is the top app in the app store and both pla platforms. you can put one bun, on, but yo eventually have to take it off if you can bring the hardware down so that you're wearing it for multiple hours a day and going about your life, yeah, i think it's a hugely disruptive opportunity.
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i think that probably does look like the future. i think the hardware cycles are five, ten years away >> and then on microsoft, josh, you mentioned the analysts see the story as one about teams, about working from home, hybrid work models. it's interesting because in 2 2020, everyone was talking about zoom, and microsoft was sort of left out of that early part of the conversation but then in 2021, obviously, there was a reversalal thof fortunes between the two companies and i'm wondering if you're hearing that microsoft is going to be able to build off i have a momentum. but where are some of the price targets and how much is that based on teams and hybrid work forces >> i spoke to rbc and part of the reason he simply has a buy on this name despite a massive run in 2021. he believes this company is going to continue benefiting from long term sector tail w winds. the migration to clouds is going
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to continue to benefit as you know the hybrid work model, he thinks, continues to benefit teams. there are some risks, though he was clear about that. cfo amy hood, they're tracing a lot of opportunities here. one, they swing and miss and you leave opportunities for rivals in the cloud to amazon for productivity to google also, he mentioned to me supply chain. we talk a lot about how that hasn't dingd microsoft across the board. so certain products have, like the x box consoles it hasn't hurt yet but as those supply chains continue to get worse, then they coin 2022, and that's another risky flag big thing to continue to watch next year, josh. thanks for that. and we're going to stick with this market theme. they talked about the un underperformance of the nasdaq versus the s&p this yaear and ae versal of what we saw in the pandemic in 20 20 but i've been looking sort of within tech at the qqq, the n
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nasdaq 100 versus the arc o innovation and that really tells a big story here it is sort of the megacap that we've been talking about that have had another great year. but these momentum names have really taken it on the chin. >> absolutely. they dominated the market the more speculative things in the first couple of months of the year keep in mind last year at this time, it already had a tremendous amount of momentum and it continued for another let's call it six or eight w weeks. and it it's not just size it's proobviously kind of the bd in the hand effect of these big platforms that are already profitable and predictable and you have something like a mi microsoft and it really is much more about you know, just p plugging yourself into this long term kind of cash flow machine as opposed to to really having to have a view on all of its component businesses and where they're going to go, what is the total address of the market. i think that's been one of the major shifts in tech this yaear. obviously, the real downturn in
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chinese tech has been another one of them and a drag on the nasdaq it's a bigger piece than the nasdaq 100 than a lot of people appreciated and in fact, you are seeing them bounce today you're seeing arc outperform today. that does suggest a lot of that kind of year end, let's get rid of the losers. and perhaps run its course for now. >> yeah, i'm wondering you talked about addressing almost all the market. in a lot of the categories the big players are in, we're kind of in the profit-taking stage, right? the phone market and pro profit-taking stage. if you're a big cloud player and the the same time we're seeing massive amounts of investments from all of the big companies into what might be next, whether it's cars or ai or whatever it is how do you think that will affect the big players versus some of the momentum names that kind of ride on that action? >> yeah, it's a great question
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i think it's a tough one because it does seem as if we're at a certain level of maturity and consolidation in some of the biggest markets that we know about. also when it kcomes to something like amazon, i think part of the explanation for the un underperformance of that stock is they're at the part of this their development where it's kind of the hard stuff is left whether it's the physical delivery or any of the absorption of costs that have to go along with how great they can be as an e-commerce site and that does plain the o outperformance of alf skbet microsoft that don't have to worry about that stuff yeah, we can talk about regulation, but they still have their profit margins and the core business. in terms of the you know, the upstart areas, i think one of the problems is there were just so many new names and so many kind of me, too-type companies that came from private-to-public already at he elevated valuatio. so it's a price.
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it's not necessarily that teems are wrong. it's how many stocks and premium was imposed on this market at once >> yeah, now the hard part is proving that they're not just features, right? they can be platforms like eventually some of the megatechs and megacab techs returns, thank you. mean time, what could be one of tech's biggest risks in 2022 we talk about it a lot regulation you are in a good position to have been looking at that all year and all next year from d.c. >> yeah, deiiedra, here in washington, democrats are going to be going back on the drawing board and top lawmakers are now imploring the president to prioritize big tech regulations senators from both parties who sit on the committees who are writing some of this legislation went on the record with the "wall street journal" asking the white house to use president biden's political capital specifically for these efforts a senior administration official tells me the president does
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support antitrust legislation, reforms of section 230 and data protections generally. but declined to say whether he backs any of the specific bills that have already been drafted to tackle some of these issues or whether he would, as these lawmakers are asking, use his personal political capital to get it done. but even without white house pressure, there is some pressure overseas remember you have an agreement with 136 countries on how to tax tech company profits, and those new laws are expected to go into effect by 2023, and european union regulators are moving forward to finalize their rules that would bar u.s. tech giants from sharing data internally or he elevating their own productsd search results the european commission's executive vice president spoke to me about this earlier this month. >> that final negotiation is going to take place this spring, which means that this could come in effect first the january '23.
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at which point our european democracy is really fast >> first of january, 2023 even with all of the gridlock here in washington, you just heard mike talking about the monopoly-like profits in the core businesses of these tech companies and i'm wondering if what we could see in europe next year is going to begin to chip away at some of that >> the tech company executives do not like it when you describe their companies as pmonopoly-like. europe is far ahead of the regulatory structures. that regulatory infrastructure you described is pretty i incoherent, right? section 230 reform has massive first amendment problems at the end of the day because what they're really trying to do is to impose content regulation on social platforms huge problems. antitrust seems exciting probably where you get the most change being impose on the industry if you increase
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competition in that sort of european model we'll see how the dma goes and then you've got privacy and political advertiseing it. they need to pick one to use that political capital for and actually go after it instead of talking about everything all at aud once >> you're asking politicians to pick one i think that's why there is conskepticism as to whether anything actually ever gets done and in the mean time, as we talk about certainly investors, it's on their risk items but when we talked to them a lot of them think that regulation could take a long time to come down the pike mean time, a ponzi schemes and why tech is doing so many b buybacks a big show ahead iand "tech check" is still getting started. stay with us b
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with a 2-year price guarantee. give your business the gift of savings today. comcast business. powering possibilities. let's get a gut check on tesla, falling this morning after issuing volunteary recalls for nearly half a million vehicles
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potential failures in its trunk l latching system released between 2017 and 20 20 reliability and durability of tesla's manufacturing process always something the bears look to with this company back in 2018, you'll recall recall, tesla recalled half the total number of cars the company had ever produced, which is a good point of context to introduce for tesla spec specifically but yes, bears care a lot about these headlines. when you think about tecotta has had 63 million cars recalled because of faulty air bags put this in the grand scheme of things how much is this going to really matter >> i think for tesla, if they want to chill with the big boys, they've got to get good at manufacturing at scale on these little things. elon musk was saying don't buy a tesla at the beginning of our
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run. they still have the same problems and so you see new cars like the mustang or the new jeep grand cherokee those companies know how to settle their production down and make it consistent and start taking athe margin up. instead of having to put costs back into their cars >> right it also raises some questions about rivion and loucid, who ar at the start of their manufacturing journeys and when they confront these issues moving on. we wanted to introduce an area of tech that has been seeing a huge influx of investment. quick commerce a big opportunity for the likes of amazon, doordash and uber, but a big risk for them as insurgents, are flocking to the space. with the promise of making deliveries in 15 minutes or less remember when two-day deliver was impressive well, that model and this model especially relies on hyper l localization and operating
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so-called dark stores where all of its items are stocked and only those making deliveries have access. so the lower doordash launched its own version which uses full-time employees rather than general contractors and another interesting angle in this business estimates that investors have poured $6 billion to date into the space. the big question is this the next big thing or will it be another graveyard of cash? joining us to discuss former uber chief business officer and a investor in gopop. you have both operated and invested in these companies. so before they looked at this space and let's start right there. is this going to be another graveyard of vc dollars, as uber increasingly looks like as its valuation still remains below that ipo price? >> yeah, certainly does sadly. but i think this might be
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different. you're going to see what i think in the commerce space is a separation very quickly of the weak from the -- wheat from the chaff so the companies that are getting funded now, including go and you have some of the ones that have figured out how to do operations very successfully and profitably are going to separat from the pack and you are going to see a bunch of the small ones that are just starting out like some of the ones you mentioned in europe wereally just blow it. and i think that's what's going to happen. and maybe some mna in between there but you are going to see a real biefurcation in 2022 as well >> amill, when you say there are some that have managed to do it profitably. what do you mean by that? is this adjustd and some other form i know that that's what ride sharing and food delivery sells investors on but is this going to be another industry where we have to make
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all of these allowances to actually get to that measure >> yeah. i don't think we should, but what i mean by profitability is that you open a microawwarehous and you acquire customers and you have delivery people and that basket kind of matters how much profit you're going to make and if that unit works, but the you're investing and losing money onopening the next mi microperformance center, that's sort of where the money gets invested as opposed to to where it's being made so suggested, to be clear. adjustd profitability. not profits. right? >> clear it's not income profitability. it's economic profitability. and suggested. >> i'm curious you mentioned m-and-a activity are these targets for building out new models at lower risk and eventually acquired or do you think they're going to roll up into each other? >> i think the big ones will
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stay independent you talk about a go puffer, if you talk about some of the smaller ones like joker or fling or some of these other ones that you see popping up, i think there might be a i lot of interest from the ubers of the world, the delivery heros of the world. doordash and maybe even in instacart. but this notion of you own the whole experience and the whole margin structure is active potentially to some of those big companies that are in sand aroud delivery of food and food-like stuff. >> and it's good to see you. you mentioned these micr microwarehouses, which obviously can't stock everything under the sun and i'm wondering how some of these companies are thinking about managing their inventory and what's giving them the most bang for their buck for these smaller tickets when people are ordering one pack of affidvil, can of baby formula? one pat of hats? what are they stocking
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>> i think there is actually an answer, i think, when go puff first started out, they probably had 150 excuse and now there are about 2,000 and they figured that's about the right number to have someone finacontinually coe back, know there is enough of what they want and order it in bulk what you're talking about, which is the old order one thing and have it be delivered isn 15 minutes they've sort of figured out how to deal with that by charging a month ly membership, where each delivery's free. i'm sure there will be people gaming this system, but right now the focus for go puff and all those guys is it to get the basket size bigger, which is what you see pizza kitchens, coffee kitchens on the sliide of the micr microwarehouse so you can order more in one order. >> amill, finally. sort of a broad question about the end game for this question quick commerce obviously, you lived through uber and saw it was valued
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higher in the maprivate markets than ultimately for now in the public market. what do you think happens to quick commerce are you prepared to sort of hold on to your shares of go puff and see it go public, or would you rather it stay private, where investors seem to understand the longer-term or perhaps value sort of the longer-term or accept that level of pr profitability that we taulked about that isn't net pr profitability? >> yeah, i mean, just to touch on you mentioned it. i think it's valued less because of the management team today, not because of the business models but with go puffs, so long as the founder are still there innovating. think of a pizza truck where you're having a restaurant on your site and adding that to the beer and other things you guy. but i'm long term bullish cause i don't think people are going to be going for supermarkets in ten years. and i think these are the companies that are going to do it from the bottom up starting with convenience items and moving to lots of other items over time.
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>> amill, as always, thanks for your insights. happy new yaear and we'll talk t you soon >> same to you bye-bye. >> coming up on t"techcheck" after the break, is 2022 the year we get a stock bitcoin ets? don't miss the ceo discussing their efforts to more. that's coming right up stay with us b
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heeditor and chief of the verge still with us. and it's not a quiet day in the market dow all-time high, s&p all-time high nasdaq in the green. the santa claus rally is wo working. a lot of momentum rallying as well into the year end ets up almost 4%
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robinhood, peloton up about 7% plus apple facing heat over working conditions for a key supplier in india. first, let's get to a news update with rahel solomon. good morning >> and here is what is happening at this hour shares of royal caribbean risin and bookings are down and cancellations are up but that demand for cruise is in the second half of ynext year rebounded. jetblue shares up sand a carrie cancelled nearly 1300 flights over the next two weeks, as it attempts to stay ahead of cruise shortages due to rising covid cases. disruptions continue with nearly 1100 more flights cancelled today. weekly jobless claims have f fallen and the four-week average dropped to a low the latest data to show that the surge in omicron cases hasn't slowed the economy or eased pressure on the market and oil prices are edging higher
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following reports that opec and its allies unlikely to change policy sources saying that opec will probably continue to slowly increase oil production. you are now up to date ckayla, i'll send it over to yo. good news for prices thank you. turning now to crypt o and plunging 30% since it peaked in november our next guest is one fof a select few to launch a bitcoin futures ets in 202 and now is predicting bitcoin hits a new all-time high in 2022. here to talk bitcoin and ets, associate ceo it's good to see you you not only say that bitcoin is going to reach a new all-time high but bitcoin will be up five times in 2022. how and why? >> well, it's not all going to happen in 2022 i'm just saying that it's long
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term case for me is to rise five times from where we are nhere timing is very hard to predict. >> and where do you say thsee t market going because your firm applied tor a spot bitcoin etf and that application was rejected by the sec this yaear. are you going to go back sand se if you can get that approved where does that process stand? >> i think regulation is really stalled and with the bitcoin etf in particular. don't expect anything to happen in 2022. it's an election year, as we all know the real contrast, this was happening in the crypto markets and in the technology itself, which is moving it forward at break neck space pace 2021 was an amazing year for crypto and smart contracts, salona, those type of software protocols
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really focus on a year o outperforming and that's what we think about continue in 2022 as well >> stable coin risk has been cited as a reason that a spot bitcoin etf cannot get approved and i wonder do you think that stable coins need to be better regulated? do they need to be audited and thawill that pave the way for s etf? >> i have a lot of the opinions on stable coin we don't buy ones today. but i doen't see why the r regulators look at them simply as money market funds. if you look at when they came out from the president's working group in november, they called it a milishmash of different things they called it a security. they said it's a contract. itcould be a deposit i think that's really confusing. to me it sounds like a money
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market fund. but just the rest of the community has been concerned about the regulators go o overboard and crush and they're a very important part of the ecosystem. as i said, i think it's a grit lock in washington right now on that top ic and others, but you know, i think they're money market funds >> 2021, certainly was a big year for crypto. we'll see where we go from here. appreciate your time and happy new yaear to you >> thank you >> deiiedra? >> turning to a report making waves this morning reuters is out with into conditions at a plant in india the company helps to assemble iphones for apple after more than 250 women who worked at the plant and lived in dormanttries were treated for food poisoning, and that was just the tip of the ice brerg here reuters detailing problems like toilets without running water. cramped quarters with up to 30
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women in a room and food sometimes crawling with worms. apple has put the facility q quote, on probation and is promising strict standards will be met going forward guys, another sort of ge geopolitical risk for apple. we often talk about the risk of its operations in china and this is a reminder that manufacturing in india as well could be a risk point. >> yeah, and there is still a lot to review and a lot to fix and a lot to ensure as far as conditions as they try to move that production away it is unclear from the report how long this probationary period will last but apple has said that it is going to last as long as the review of the conditions and the improvement of the conditions takes to ensure. so we will see what happens from there. speaking of apple, a record year for buybacks apple, microsoft, cheap among them
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who do they help we'll have that story. that's coming up next. ♪ b (swords clashing) -had enough? -no... arthritis. here. aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme.
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buying back a total $48 billion worth of stock and that was just in the third quarter even as tech ceos like jeff b bezos, elon musk and larry page sell record amounts of stock who benefits from the buyback? now with the breakdown of these staggering figures, bob. >> yeah, it's going a record year it's going to be a record year for overall buybacks take a look ag numbers these are still preliminary. $850 billion bought back this year a record the old record $806 billion in 2018 and as ckayla referenced, four o the five last quarter were tech stocks people asked me why tech stocks are so big on buy backs cause they've got the cash flow to be able to enable them to do the buybacks financials started buying back this yaear as well. that's a new development oracle has been buying back stock.
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the big issue is whether b buybacks reduce the share pocou. a lower share count means a higher eps, and the biggest companies, the biggest tech companies are indeed reducing their share count. apple's been doing this since the end of 2018. they've reduced their share count nearly 20% meta, facebook, just start reducing their share count alphabet's been doing it since 2018 oracle's been a longtime buyback monster. 25% down in the last few years but others are not it's mixed and it depends on what you're looking at among other names, tesla hasn't reduced their share count. it's been going up in the last few years. and ennvidia's been going up broadcom's been going up adoeb has not. civsco and you see this is sort of a mixed picture here. overall the share count for the s&p 500, despite all these b buybacks we've been doing for years, actually is higher this year than it was in 2018 it's not overall going down,
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it's going up. why is that happening despite several trillion dollars in b buybacks in the last few years two reasons. number one, buybacks are being replaced at the same time with more options it's like a giant spinning w wheel. you buy back stock and at the same time you give out more optpositions to executives and o people who are in management positions. the other reason is share prices are much higher than a few years ago so the higher share prices we deuces the amount of shares the company can buy. $1 is not worth the same in a buyback as it was several years ago. so you put these two factors together it's still basically the same share count level that we've had a few years ago. and guys, this is hot potat o politically. the build back better program of president biden has a 1% tax on buybacks proposed all bogged down in negotiations so none of this is happened. but all of this is very politically sensitive right now and i can tell you in 2022, companies are flush with cash. they're going to continue to buy back stock unless that cash flow
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goes down, but for right now, i think 2022 could be another potential record year for b buybacks guys >> bob, i want to ask you about that sur tax because that 1% proposed sur tax that's in the build back better package. it's in there, but that package isn't going anywhere as it's structured right now and i'm wondering if you're actually hearing companies citing that a a reason or if that 1% is just going to end up being a rounding error when it's all said and done >> yes, i think that's the l latter that's a deminutemus tax it's really -- i think the better debate is what should people -- what companies should be doing with this ocean of cash flow that they're getting? there is very good evidence that dividends might be a better way to do it or even paying down debt or of course, you can do capital investments as well. the basic argument here is from the companies is individuals or
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investors want buybacks because it improves earnings per share no disagreement with that, but as you see here, in the lot of not reducing the earnings per share. this is the problem i have about buybacks let's not just do this resolvin door with giving more options on the back end and the front end buying back stock. that's the problem i've got with this >> yeah. it's a great luck, bob, especially as we head into 2022. we'll continue to follow a quick programming note as we head to break. don't miss tonight 's special report "your money 2022" at 6:00 p.m. eastern and crowded adtres it will be a great show more t"techcheck" meanwhile. stay with us ♪ b
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>> let's get a gut check samsung and micron warning covid lockdowns could affect volumes micron specifically pointing to delays in its chips used in data centers and samsung seeing the lockdown hit its chip use for storage. the lockdown imposed december 23rd is just the latest hurdle adding to global supply chain constraints. the semi conductor etf up more than 40%, and it just hit an all-time high this week, ckayla. >> all right, deiiedra, is this earn game a wolf in sheep's
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clothing? that is what we're going to be discussing up next. our next guest seems to think so we'll talk about why he's calling the hit game infinity a ponzi scheme. don't go away. ♪ b
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available now for comcast business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. what does a foster kid need from you? to be brave. to show up. for staying connected. the questions they weren't able to ask. show up for the first day of school, the last day at their current address. for the mornings when everything's wrong. for the manicure that makes everything right, for right now. show up, however you can, for the foster kids who need it most— at a key trend into 2022, you may have heard of it so-called web 3 and its impact on gaming.
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this yaear saw an explosion of block change where users buy assets with real dollars, but then complete tasks or battle for coins that can be traded for more cash. one of the biggest games in the space is infinity and it's got more users and the $3 bill, probonponents say s a viable side hustle and it is a new piece that represents everything that is wrong with web3 here to discuss software consultant and founder, paul butler paul, fascinating piece. you talk about how sort of creators of these web3 platforms can start with the best of intention like axios creators did, decentralization, but ultimately they have to sacrifice that ethos and they ultimately retain con terrell. something that jack dorsey has been talking about on twitter over the last few weeks.
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>> yeah, there's two pieces here the first is the mechanics of the game itself and how those mechanics have developed into a ponzi scheme and we can see whether it was an original intention or not and the developers of the game will emit as much and the other aspect of this is the microcosm of web3 is a lot of these things purport to be decentralized and the nfts and you trade them and own them and all of this, but when you look at the actual implications of that on user, it is still very centralized because the game can block one of these tokens or that sort of thing >> paul, i understand your criticisms they're well laid out, but i have to wonder is the system still flawed and i'm wondering if we are in the netscape phase
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of web3 and at least something like axi is a step in the right direction and will it take time to perfect it. >> the web is centralize individual of this, and there's certainly validity to that where i think there's a disconnect is the solutions that were posed that are part of the web3 package and it's arguable what's in that, but it typically includes block chain as one of the core technologies and there are people working on solving this problem with centralization and doing very real work and there's a term called ink and switch you'll never hear them use web3 or block chain where the web3 people come in is they see the block chain motive
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and they're not really solving the problem. >> one of my criticisms, and block chain or not, they tend to involve an enormous amount of grinding and financialization. at least this one pays you for grinding and the game itself doesn't seem fun do you see that trend as a good one? it will reward you for grinding in the game as opposed to trying to extract money away from you from the candy crush. >> people are benevolently paying people to play this game and the inflows of new players who have to put up hundreds and thousands of dollars to start playing the game so that's why with the ponzi scheme and the layer of deniability where they can say oh, some people have put in more than they've taken out, and they're doing it for the love of the game and they're not doing it for the love of the game or
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it's a very tiny piece of the pie and most users are in it because they want to make more out of it which, of course, just mathematically doesn't work. >> paul, there's been a lot of coverage how in the philippines specifically some of the players of axi are using the income streams from the game to pay bills in the real world and on one side, you have play to earn, but i'm wondering, on the other side you also have someone who is playing to lose and while you have examples like the philippines that are positive examples, do you think that this is a net benefit or net detractor from the real world economy and what happens to those people who are playing and losing on the other side >> i think when you hear the story about the philippines. it's a very feel-good story, but underneath the coverage it's kind of a pr play from some affiliated parties of the game itself so, you know, there's obviously for each dollar coming in. the philippines is the biggest
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growth market in the game. that means that all of these players putting money into playing this are also largely based in the philippines the numbers aren't public. we don't know exactly for sure and just from principles we know that for every dollar coming into the game there's a dollar going out. so you can make assumptions that a lot of that money is coming in from the philippines and they were seeing it reshuffled rather than created >> paul butler, certainly a theme and area that we'll continue to watch into 2022. meanwhile, follow and subscribe to ours, tech check. listen any time anywhere wherever you download podcasts we are back in just a moment stay with us
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one more thing before we go and that's didi, the chinese ride hailing app posting results that saw a $4.7 billion loss in q3 as regulatory pressure from beijing continues to impact operations the company plans to go public in hong kong and delist from the new york stock exchange after just six months.
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as it closes in on being one of the worst ipos of the year, a complete debacle, down more than 62% since its trading debut on just june 30th we knew that this regulatory crackdown in china would have a cost does it surprise you how steep that cost actually turned out to be >> it doesn't. particularly for didi. pump a lot of money in try to build a big moat and extract monopoly profits and you're seeing results here >> yeah. you know i don't even think that we know the full cost at the moment and that's yet stock has remained under so much pressure. look at that that's 60% since its new york stock exchange debut you have to wonder, is it going to attract any more investor appetite over in hong kong when the shareholders and the earlier
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ones before it listed. so what speaks to the chinese contacts and mike santoli talked about this at the beginning of the show some of the chinese names, they are still despite the sell-offs still huge they have huge market caps like alibaba. they've been one of the worst performers, guys and we'll see how they do next year and i will see you back here tomorrow we'll do it again. halftime report starts now all right. thanks so much welcome to "the halftime report." front and center, surging stocks and the s&p on the best record run ever and the dow into the end of the year, as well does it make our committee more bullish about 2022 or more nervous that we're pulling too much forward we'll ask them and we'll debate it joining me for the hour, jason snipe, jenny harrington and jon najarian, co-founder of market


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