tv Power Lunch CNBC February 23, 2023 2:00pm-3:00pm EST
good afternoon everybody and welcome to "power lunch" alongside kelly evans i'm tyler mathisen coming up we have shares of nvidia soaring today the stock up 60% this year the company says ai is going to be a boost what it means for nvidia and other chip names as ai is the new battleground. >> plus kyle bass joining us live we'll talk about the market and fed and china. we'll check the markets. down dow down a little more than
a 100 point, across the board down about half a percent. and a check with dom chu with a chip check. >> the stock of the day has to be nvidia, up 4% in the s&p an tech heavy nasdaq 100 after the chip maker reported results that topped analyst forecasts for profits and revenues a lot of optimism around artificial intelligence and machine learning applications i the future of this story check out the move in other semiconductor stocks, the halo effect advanced micro up 3% marvel technology up 3%. nearly 4% gains for taiwan semi. a more dramatic move in shares of lucid after they reported disappointing quarterly revenues which led some analysts to downgrade that stock, with concern over demand for evs.
and we'll end with a check on domino's pizza papa john's. both taking mixed hits. investors keying on domino's missing revenue projections. and papa john's missing estimates on north american company owned sales. domino's down 13%. john's down 8. let's get back to nvidia now. the next guest said the worst has already past so how optimistic should investors be about the company and the ai future? joining us now now senior analyst chris rowland and in the studio steve kovac how have they managed to come back so far so fast? >> ai is the buzzword the entire call the ceo explaining he thinks he
can capitalize on the energy and investment happening behind ai i'm old enough to remember when nvidia was a metaverse company a year ago before that it was a crypto company. the key here tyler, is the chips are so good the company makes it can be used for a variety of applications and now that this ai optimism is there, the ceo saying over and over again on the call that they're ready to capitalize on it compared it to when the iphone first came out he sees a future where every software company is going to need this technology. >> chris, this was a company that for several years, up until 2022, was everybody's darling. it was a shot stock and a hot company, 2022 it was anything but, but it has come back as we mentioned, 60% so far this year. can it keep it up?
>> i don't know if it can keep it up. we do have a buy, a $265 price target on it we think ai is the catalyst here primarily naturally language transformer models for ai, aka chat gpt we think chat gpt started an arms race here the power of it, the likability from users and all of this is generally powered by gpus and primarily nvidia gpus. so we are on the precipice of something very, very important here. >> chris we're seeing goldman hiking the price target to 275, had it in neutral, goes to outperform what do you think the long term earnings power is now? >> well, jenson talked about just ai, for example, being 300
billion of hardware sales and another 300 billion of software sales. so if you apply that, you know we're probably talking about hundreds of dollars of earnings at least for nvidia. so i think the answer to that question is really very open ended. >> chris, let me ask you a different question it can't be going better for nvidia and worse for intel let's not forget they cut their dividend this week and talk about whether nvidia should replace intel on the dow as we lay out the scenario, what does the company like intel do what do they do? >> they have some major problems, kelly. pat was put in a difficult spot continued with their own internal manufacturing instead of moving to tsm, and they are lagging. if you are not on the edge, you
have a real problem in the digital space. so intel has a very big problem in the digital space even nvidia has moved to tsm and leading edge because they understand the importance of that and the power it brings their products so i guess the point here is, things are going well for nvidia this is the architecture of the future and things are not going so well for intel. it is the process technology of the past >> steve, why don't you react to what chris just said there specifically about nvidia. is everything flowing nvidia's direction? are they going to be the intel of the next generation >> that was the big question that kind of went underanswered the call last night. the ceo was talking about we expect to see acceleration in the data center business implying it's related to the ai
stuff. they just didn't say when and to what degree. the $300 billion that chris was talking about, when does that come to fruition they don't know. but they see an acceleration happening this year and how long that momentum can continue is a big question that went unanswered yesterday so we have to see if this in energy around ai keeps up and if nvidia capitalizes on it >> chris, thank you very much. steve, good to have you with us, we appreciate it. let's turn to google where life is less roomy google announcing it will ask some employees to desk share in an effort to cut costs the new initiative is known as cloe, or cloud office evolution. jennifer elias is here jon fortt is joining us on set as well. jennifer, is this as strange as it sounds? >> kelly, it is.
it is strange. there's no going around that i think, especially for a workforce like google's, which is used to, you know, this massive, consistent real estate expansion and having sort of these endless perks and whatnot. to go to that to you need to come in these two days and that's when the team will be working together and, you know, the logistics too i think a lot of employees have some -- are a little bit confused about how that will work out, who decides which teams will be in on certain days and, you know, i think it makes sense in some respects when you think about the hybrid -- >> let me ask you this, jennifer are times tight at google? you can't read a story like this -- maybe there's something we're missing. we're talking about sharing desks. do they not have the money are choosing not to spend it this way? >> i think it's both
i think in this case they're trying to invest more in what they're doing around cloud and trying to grow that and cut losses, they're not profitable and they have pressure from wall street around that if they wanted to, there's always been enough space for everyone to have their own desks. and then i think, also, the behavioral patterns of people coming into the offices, not as much, and trying to figure out well, when people come in, they should be around their teams so i think they're trying to roll it into a combination of that, but it doesn't look good either way employees are thinking this sounds desperate in some respects. >> set aside ai and search for now and focus on the cloud is google third in a two-horse race here? >> they might be third in a three-horse race they've done well in cloud, they're mentioned in the same breath as aws and azure.
>> do they deserve to be >> they do >> the challenge is having their own apl. they're trying to grow but at the same time they have to be careful about the capitalout let. the ceo of alphabet isn't messing around here. it's not we're opening up more office space, build more buildings for google cloud it's figure out what you have here, and work with what you've got. you can't separate out ai from this because a lot of that ai work as customers want it has to flow through google cloud and that relationship that customers have with cloud having data in google's cloud. >> what's your sense of the vibe at google right now? is this a place that is feeling heat or -- >> yes. >> yeah. >> it is i like to be careful about, you know -- about the heat that companies are feeling.
but this is a culture that was an in-person culture intentionally for decades up to this point they were careful about structuring where you get your dry cleaning taken care of, have the ping-pong tabls. we want you there, then the pandemic hit and we don't want you here and they grew. so you have people not part of the closely managed in person culture and then you have microsoft armed with ai, bing, calling out google, seeing how they'll respond. that's their core business so they have a number of things to manage here while their churl as it existed in the past is working the way it used to be. >> what's the transition with google cloud what's triggering the changes? >> google cloud is the third horse in the race and they had to stand up enterprise culture instead of academic culture. google had a technical culture,
here's why it's so great, you customers go figure out how to use it enterprise culture is we'll figure out what your challenge is, how to solve your problem and heclp you do it curry coming over was able to instill that culture but this is also showing we can help you with this ai thing even as satya and microsoft are a first mover, at least in the conversation. >> you have to wonder if big acquisitions are next or something. >> they've already done some big acquisitions and this isn't the environment that ruth is going to say here's the checkbook. >> jennifer, final quick thought? >> everything jon just said. seeing the continuation, i think, of google's culture, internally looking more enterprise like. and we'll be interested to see what happens going forward with the real estate. >> jennifer, thank you very much jon fortt good to see you.
coming up, the surprising reason many consumers have extra cash on hand and what it means for the fed's fight against inflation. natural gas prices are down 75% over the past six months going from fears of a shortage to oversupply issue. what happened to the energy crisis we were told to worry about? good luck. td ameritrade, this is anna. hi anna, this position is all over the place, help! hey professor, subscriptions are down but that's only an estimated 15% of their valuation. do you think the market is overreacting? how'd you know that? the company profile tool, in thinkorswim®. yes, i love you!! please ignore that. td ameritrade. award-winning customer service that has your back.
you. welcome back to "power lunch. energy actually the best performing sector today, up about 1% that brings us to what's been happening with natural gas and all the rest of it. >> but first a quick look at the energy sector because koe tara is leading the gains they did indicate higher than expected cap x for 2023 but announced a $2 billion share buyback program, about 11% of their market cap and ceo thomas jordan gave a mixed message, the outlook is guarded and optimistic so some interesting messaging there. and turning to natural gas, the talker this week and this year, so paul hickey at bespoke crunched the numbers and found that dip below $2 snapped a 607 day win streak trading above that level this is the fifth time it's traded above $2 for a year so we don't have a large sample set but in all four of the
instances it was higher one year later with a median gain of 70%. >> how much more -- i think i asked this the other day, forgive me how much more expensive is natural gas in europe than the u.s. >> i don't have the numbers exactly in front of me -- >> but $2, looking at $2.29 is that per megawatt hour >> no. over the summer they were paying equivalent to $50 for mmbtu, so they're more elevated three or four times what we're paying here. >> thank you for clearing that up, partly for more let's bring in jonathan capwomen good to have you with us if you were to compare head on head prices for natural gas for the united states versus europeans right now, how would
it compare >> multiples of the price. now another feature of this if you look back two or three years in europe, although gas prices have fallen some 80% since they peaked last year it's still multiples of what it was 2019, 2020, and 21 so we have to put this in context. energy is expensive since the russian invasion of ukraine. energy diversifications meant that europe had to look to other markets outside of russia, for example to the united states for l&g imports. so the energy market has changed completely in europe and, you know, i think there's a big message here, which is that europe and i think going forward to your point about how much more expensive gas is in europe and the united states, needs to think about being more efficient with how they use it. >> in europe and the united
states, last year, prices were multiples of where they are today, ten or more times, where they are today what happened and/or what didn't happen to cause those prices to come back down to today's levels, which you point out are still elevated in historic terms but more moderate than last spring and summer? what happened and didn't happen to put us price wise where we are today? >> so let's wind the clock back a year yesterday was the first anniversary, the 22nd of the february, of nord stream ii, the russian pipeline meant to bypass ukraine. and then we have the anniversary of the war these are linked after the russian invasion of ukraine, supply dried up in
europe, europe depended 40% for imports from russia. by summer, that disappeared. so europe, if you look at the chart for gas prices last year you see prices spiking and, you know, as you say it's multiples of where they were today. in fact, the price has come down since then but that was a scramble. there was a scramble for international supply now that supply has been partly filled by l&g exports from united states and from norway. so incredible job in europe to diversify supply also to build up storage if you look at the winter price you see a mild winter characteristic of what happened in europe. we got through a mild winter, with european commission requiring the european storage system which has not been big --
caught off guard at the beginning of last year, to fill up so by november the european markets were at about 90% storage levels they've done it. but the reason why prices are sitting where they are, is storage levels are expected to be pretty much full again by september of this year. >> jonathan, let me ask you, you deliver power and energy efficient solutions to end users internationally all different kinds of sectors where are you seeing the biggest demand right now give us the lay of the land post covid with inflation reduction act, all the rest of it that's happening? we're seeing the effects when you talk to pippa about this yesterday we see gasoline prices could be higher than oil prices because of the lack of refining capacity i'm curious about the energy transition here. >> exactly what we've been talking about, a massive wake up call for the energy sector energy prices have been high for
ages what happened in 2014 when russia annexed ukraine, the european energy commission said for every unit of natural gas we don't use is 2.6 units we don't need to buy from russia. what this has done, the energy crisis, was expose how expensive energy is, how vulnerable, whole regions like europe can be to availability and also the carbon problem. we are wasting about -- in the united states about 70%, pretty much the same number we're losing about 70% of the primary energy in the u.s. and european economy so the reason for every one unit we don't use in europe is 2.6 we don't need to buy from russia, that was charting the amount of energy that gets lost with extracting, converting, distributing energy. so the price spike means that europe and the united states
must, and it's a huge opportunity, to be much more efficient going forward. and if we can do that, that's the biggest bang for the buck from a carbon emission persp perspective, the biggest impact it can have on emernergy. >> do you think there's the capitol hill a-- political and populist will to see this as the opportunity you see it as? quickly, please. >> the original response was to double down when looking at the time and cost, i think the answer is yes, i think the european commission by autumn last year started to look at reductions in gas use, reduction in energy use, about 20% of the inflation reduction act in the u.s. i think policy makers are starting to step up but it should be 50 to 80% of the discussion, not a very small minority so we have a lot further to go. >> jonathan thank you very much. appreciate your incites today.
>> thank you for having me. treasury doing a 180, the ten year pulling back from the highs. we'll check in with the bond master, rick santelli. while the s&p is lower, we're on pace for the worst week since early december recovering as the dow is making a run to positive territory, down 1 point right now "power lunch" back after a break.
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welcome back to "power lunch. you're not mistaken, that's green on our screens for the first time since about 11:00 a.m. eastern time. dow up 9 points, s&p up a third of a percent, nasdaq is up half a percent. if you're wondering bond yields have been on an ebb. let's look at moderna down 7% today after projecting a huge decline in revenue and profit as covid vaccine demand drops off, moderna down 7.5%. >> let's check on the bond markets yields lower after the 10 year got close to 4%. rick santelli joins us live from chicago. rick >> what a wild day let's start at the beginning, 8:30 eastern when everybody was looking at the second look of
fourth quarter gdp, a first look, second look, third look. each time more data comes in it gets fine tuned. look at the price index, originally 3.5 first look. revised up to 3.9. but it follows a final read in the third quarter of 4.4 core pce, 3.9 revised to 4.3 but it follows a final read of 4.7. you see what i'm saying? the revisions or what it actually follows, look at the charts, ten year at 8:30 eastern you made the high yield, just missed 4% and it's moving lower since. notes over bonds, this spread has been bucking the trend a lot of spreads have become less inverted, but the knob is the most inverted since december it's inverted, it gives you special information, a favorite
of mine. it picks up cyclical treastream. overlay the dow jones on top of it, if we go more negative the stock market goes lower. pay attention to the knob. tyler, back to you >> when rick wags his finger, i pay attention. thank you very much. let's get to bertha coombs for a cnbc news update. >> a lot is happening. i pay attention to rick santelli meantime, alex murdaugh is testifying today in his own defense. he admitted to lying about when he had last seen his wife and son alive. blaming his opioid addiction for clouding his thinking. but in answers to his own attorney he denied shooting and killing them >> did you shoot a 300 blackout into her head, causing her death? >> i didn't shoot my wife or my son any time
ever i would never intentionally do anything to hurt either one of them it's snowing and 18 degrees in minneapolis and the national weather service said snow, strong winds and an icy winter mix will continue to make travel treacherous from the upper midwest to the northeast snow is also forecast for many of california's mountain ranges. in western japan residents are preparing for spring by setting large grass fires. it's a tradition to make room for new grass and plants to grow hopefully not near any of the cherry blossoms, kelly >> yes i'm terrified after hearing the weather updates. ahead on "power lunch," the fed is front of mine, global risks for the markets, from the
war in crukraine, tensions with china. we'll discuss it with kyle bass after the break. all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future. so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're investing for our clients in the projects that power our economy. from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive. ♪ ♪ wow, we're crunching tons of polygons here! what's going on? where's regina?
lunch," everybody. big interview on cnbc today, jim cramer sitting down with j.p. morgan ceo jamie dimon here's what he said when he was asked about u.s. relations with china. >> i think russia showed the world that the world is not safe for western -- completely safe for western democracy and you need american leadership that can coalesce the western world but what's happening today is you have countries around the world that are picking and choosing who they want to lie with, trade with we have to put trade on the table. a lot of the countries are hey, if you're not going to trade with us and china is going to walk in here, so we needy , diplomacy, economic trade. >> you can see the full interview tonight at 6:00 p.m. eastern on "mad money" joining susa long time observer and sometime critic of kyle bass kyle, what do you think of
dimon's strategy here with respect to china do you think that the u.s., in light of the fact that today we are warning them very resolutely against sending weapons to russia we are talking about putting more american forces in that part of the world. can we have a constructive diplomatic, let alone economic relationship with china? >> i mean, hi, tyler i think that what's happening with the union of strange bedfellows between putin and xi, which was first publically memorialized february 4th of last year, 20 days before the invasion and since then reratified and restrengthened and now the u.s. intelligence community getting word that china is about to supply lethal aid to russia. makes trading with the sovereign nation of china very difficult for anyone to swallow, tyler
i mean, as an investor i have no idea how you underwrite xi jinping risk after we've seen what putin can do. and now xi jinping just a couple days ago is rescinding the agreement between the s.e.c.'s pcaop and the crr audits where he's telling the companies to fire western auditors. i don't know how much more we need to see for the american public and investing public to realize that china is not our friend while xi jinping is running the country. in fact, there are competitors some may say and our worst adversary others may say, i would be in the secondary camp. >> is china investable as an economic or morale proposition is it a place where you would put money and feel comfortable about it the stocks there have gone up a lot over the past six months >> you know, i understand that
things trade around and things bounce but when you think about the long-term viability of any investment you have in a chinese entity, i can't imagine you running a risk model or anyone running a risk model today thinking the rewards outpace the risks enough to make the investment in fact, investors and f fiduciaries lost their money in russia the day putin invaded ukraine. i say it's russia today and china tomorrow listen to xi jinping's speech yesterday he gave a speech in which he was commemorating the 100th anniversary of the communist party and said in the speech resolving the taiwan question and realizing china's complete reunification is a historic mission, an unshakable commitment of the chinese communist party. he is telling you in no uncertain words he will invade and take over taiwan while he's
alive. this is not going to be some other leader or ruler a decade down the road. this is happening. and if that happens you've seen janet yellen and blinken and biden say we will impose strict, harsh and severe sanctions i think investors need to prepare for this >> or an accelerated decoupling. let me ask you a proxy question or maybe it's beside the point, kyle what about europe? are they caught in the middle here i ask because we've seen a number of investors turnbullish lately on the markets. what would your reaction be? >> i don't mean to be too cynical, kelly but i think you have a scenario where if you just take ten steps back and look at europe, europe has so poorly mismanaged their energy transition we saw a glimpse of what could happen to european power and energy markets if there's a severe cold
spell or a heat wave and they really fortified their purchasing and bought l&g and crude from all over the world preparing for a cold winter and got a warm winter. i think in the next two years you'll see countries like germany that spent less than 1% of gdp on average on energy that could go to 8 or 9% on gdp europe never formed a union, they don't have a central taxing authority. talking about a german army and italian navy they don't have a real union they never recapitalized their banks and mismanaged their energy situation so poorly that europe is in for dark times the next 10 or 15 years. again, i can't imagine outside of a trade buying europe and selling it quickly i would keep investing in the u.s. >> i want to maybe turn to something that is a little lighter than what we just talked
about. when i think of kyle bass i think of the ultimate contrarian if you can give us right now your number one contrarian play, what might it be would it be to short austin real estate what would it be >> well, with u.s. rates where they are today, looking one month, two month, three year, ten year rates, and you think about what i believe is an ultimate eventuality, i think china will absolutely invade taiwan in the coming years, then why should the hong kong dollar peg exist between the u.s. dollar and hong kong given the malign intent and belligerence of the chinese communist party. think about if you had money in a hong kong bank and it was convertible between a u.s. dollar you could earn 4% on or a hong kong dollar you could earn 300 basis points less on and you
have xi jinping risk, you'd be a food to hold onto hong kong dollars. i think that's coming. >> kyle, thank you so much for your time today. always a pleasure to have you with us. >> pleasure to be here >> kyle bass wonder about u.s. real estate, to be honest. coming up a new kind of cash back consumers are gaining financial fuel these days. we'll explain why there could be n more cuts on the way celebrating black theritage through the stories of our contributors. >> my parents first inspired my interest in news as immigrants they taught the importance of global awareness and civil engagement my parents left lie beria durina civil war. both of my parents are
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welcome back to "power lunch. a lunch of focus on the consumer and their durability can they keep supporting the economy these days robert frank is here with a look at one reason consumers have extra spending power now states are cutting taxes and the fed shouted it out yesterday. >> the fed did it was in the minutes. the states have so much surplus money they're giving it back to consumers. that's been a huge tailwind and underappreciated for why consumers are holding up 43 states have passed some form of tax relief, in the form of gas tax holiday, grocery tax holidays some of them are one offs but a lot of them are rate cuts. some states looking to eliminate the entire tax rates this year, mississippi and arkansas looking to go the way of florida and
texas -- >> permanently >> permanently phased in over time but permanently. there's this race to the bottom, it's tax cut fever putting tens of billions of dollars in the pockets. it's a tailwind for consumers that may continue in part as long as the state fiscal situations hold up that's the question. >> is it making it harder for the fed to do its job? >> a little bit. >> you have that liquidity going in. >> that liquidity going in >> they're trying to take it out. >> it also will help the state is going into what the recession looks like will be in the best shape they've been in they have $130 billion in rainy day funds going into the slow down so even if we get a slow down, they may not have to raise taxes again, they may hold on to the a lot of the tax cuts this could not just hurt the fed but also go on longer
>> why not new jersey? where's the money -- >> everything -- >> it's where we live. that's the problem. >> i'll take a bag exemption robert, thank you. still ahead we'll look at a couple of stocks getting clobbered today. an opportunity to buy bargains we'll ask our trader in a fresh three stock lunch micong up. there are the companies. or at least a couple of them but with upwork... with upwork the hiring process is fast and flexible. behold... all that talent! ♪ this is how we work now ♪ if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, getrefunds.com can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee. all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then work with professionals to assist your business with its forms and submit the application. go to getrefunds.com to learn more.
welcome back time for today's three-stock lunch. we're looking at names that reported quarterly results before the bell today. wayfair down 30% after a wider than expected loss and drop in active customers domino's down 12% after a mixed report on earnings and miss in revenue in sales quanta is up after topping expectations for their q4 results. let's bring in victoria green now, a cnbc contributor. wayfair was down on home depot's report and now getting clobbered. would you be a buyer?catching falling knife right here it is just a bad, bad miss for
them e-commerce is slowing down, but in a time of almost record retail spending, they still lost customers. they only have 22 million subs subscribers, down 19%. all that head cutting they did didn't really help their pathway to profit at this point i think the market is saying prove it to me. i don't care how much you talk about cutting and you're going to have to put more money into marketing to drum up sales, prove it to me you can be profitable in 2023 i'm not touching it, even with the big moves today. >> let's talk about another one you may not be touching and that is domino's pizza. revenue a little light here. the eps a little higher than expected what do you see in the future? >> it is all about the guidance. they guided down their expectations for two to three years. 1% same stores comp growth that's pitiful come on, dominos it is the story about delivery versus carry out and the delivery is tosuch a
struggle for them right now. carry out is the only thing working for them and it is hard for them to grow that. they opened less stores than expected, lowered guidance you need to give us a reason you can actually grow. if you are seeing slowing growth, you can see the stock retest the covid lows around 286 and we need to see them get delivery profitable and they're struggling with that. >> they need to bring back patrick, take him from burger king i think the stock is where he was when he left five years ago. to quanta services would you be a buyer >> yes, i do they had a wonderful beat, top and bottom lines, they had record q4 and record full year both top and bottom lines. the runway for this stock, infrastructure stock, they do a lot with electrical power grids, but they also bought renewable energy company last year, 20% of revenues now so you're playing in this field that has a lot of government spending infrastructure has to get upgraded we always talked about the power grid it is very inefficient and they know how to set up for renewables, which is a big push
in a lot of states i think the runway is clear. they have this most beautiful upward trend channel right now how could you not like this stock? they're expecting double digit eps growth, record backlog, a lot to like about this stock and good sector right now. >> love having you on, victoria. thank you very much. you bring game love it. victoria green, appreciate it. still to come, 401(k) plans took it on the chin last year. there is the camera right there. new data shows that retirement savers will not be deterred. there is your nest egg in the nest, we'll talk about that when "power lunch" tus.rern i think i'm ready for this. heck ya! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ finally we can eat. ♪ you know you make me wanna...♪ and then we looked around and said, wait a minute, this isn't even our stroller! (laughing)
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welcome back to "power lunch. we know 2022 was a rough year for the markets. dom chu looking at just how hard it hit 401(k) balances i know how hard it hit mine. >> it hit all of us. and the reason why you heard a lot of color commentary about folks saying joking perhaps in a very non, non-loving fashion that their 401(k)s have become 201ks is because not just stocks got hit, but bonds got hit as well new data is out from fidelity they administer a lot, millions of retirement accounts for americans and they have a good
view of things their data shows the average 401(k) balance in america at the end of last year was just around $104,000 that's a 23% decline over the same time last year. not unexpected, given the route that we saw in bonds and stocks. but there is perhaps a little bit of a silver lining in the whole process. if you look at what's happening with the overall picture within those 401(k) balances, we still do have around 13.7% contribution rates, which means people, along with their company matches, are still saving around 13.7%. now that is just a hair below the 15%, 15% that fidelity experts at least advise their clients to save in terms of their overall kind of 401(k) balances and what is even perhaps a little bit more encouraging right now is that oftentimes people will take hardship withdrawals if they face a certain situation where they need to kind of bridge the gap in terms of their money. they take a loan from their
401(k) well, it turns out that about 16%, 16.7% of folks still have an outstanding balance on a loan against their 401(k) that's a relatively lower amount than we would have seen at certain times at least during the pandemic and what not. i guess the good news, guys, is that people are not having as much in terms of a balance in their loans from 401(k)s. >> i'm surprised that people are contributing 13.7% of their income is that right? >> that's -- if -- >> you add the company match, correct. some people will match dollar for dollar or 50 cents on the dollar, a certain percentage the idea here is that whatever has been happening during the market downturn, it has not affected people's propensity to want to save. >> to want to put money? >> and, by the way, it seems so ruff to do so, but when the markets are are down, that's when you want to put money into the marketplace. it is encouraging. >> 401(k) is the perfect dollar cost averaging vehicle
>> and by the way, the data from them shows that individual retirement accounts, i.r.a.s and 4013bs are showing similar type of trends. >> it was a wake-up call around january 1 to look and see where the balances were compared with a year ago great to have you here. >> thank you for watching "power lunch," everybody. >> "closing bell" starts right now. thanks so much welcome to "closing bell." i'm scott wapner this make or break hour begins with stocks still searching for some stability and all eyes as usual on interest rates. nvidia shining bright in today's ma market does the company's solid outlook mean the tech trade has more room to run? we'll ask a top money manager that critical question today we begin with our talk of the tape why jamie dimon is not breaking out his recession playbook just yet even though he does say there is some, quote, scary stuff out there. so what that mean for where your money is headed for th