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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  June 17, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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she's magnificent. but she has made my life hard -- hard. and farrah's. >> that's it for us tonight. "anderson cooper 360" starts now. breaking news tonight on a day of bloodshed and murder in syria we learn tonight that the obama administration is taking early steps that would be needed to indict syria's dictator and make a case against him as a global war criminal to bring bashar alassad to the same court that -- to have to ask what one refugee recently asked of our cnn correspondent, why is our president killing us? they ask that daily in syria and daily they are answered with lies and gunfire and torture. as always a warning. there's graphic video ahead tonight. today massive new demonstrations across syria because the regime doesn't let reporters, in this is amateur video. in this case what seems to be a
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peaceful protest in homes quickly turns into a killing zone. we'll hear shortly from a syrian human rights activist who says at least 19 people were killed today. estimates are at least 1100 since the uprising began. 1100 who died, most of them simply because they have called for freedom. and human rights groups say 10,000 people have been arrested. even the young children taken, tortured, murdered, then returned to their families to terrify them into silence and obedience. as we've tried to document on this program, the regime is also engaged in a campaign of mass-produced lying. lying to its own people and lying to the rest of the world. listen to what a spokeswoman for the regime recently told the bbc about the people who fled by the thousands into turkey from a northern syrian town that had been targeted for retribution by assad's military and security forces. >> the army has not moved into
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this area. this is a farm. so who are they fleeing from? they are fleeing from these armed groups who have massacred 120 people. there is no army there. >> the armed groups she mentioned is the term they always use to describe overwhelmingly unarmed protesters. she claims there was no army in -- al shagar. troops rolled into that town on the 10th. even as she was speaking, security force had already occupied a neighboring town. fleeing refugees were already reporting columns on the outskirts of the city. they were telling us that troops were burning their crops, torching their wheat fields as punishment. then the next day even syrian state tv showed scenes like these, troops on mostly now abandoned streets. they said they were liberating the people from armed thugs who had killed syrian troops. yet the city streets they liberated are largely deserted. now that city is a ghost town, youtube video shows from just yesterday shows tanks and shoppers still sour surrounding it. again, the spokeswoman, this
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attractive face of a very ugly regime saying "the army has not moved into this area. this is a fact." in fact troops were in the area as she said those words, and in the city the very next day. listen to how she explains those refugees. >> a lot of them find it very easy to move across because their relatives are there. it's a little bit like having a problem in your street and your mom lives in the next street so you go and visit your mom for a bit. >> like having a problem in for street, she says, like visiting your mom, she says, in her british-accented english. she's tying to make it all seem normal. refugees fleeing in terror is a normal family visit to her. there is no normal in syria right now except for oppression and murder. that is normal now. take a lock at what happened to these apparently unarmed protesters. they can't even make it out of that alley. hemmed in by tanks and snipers, one by one they make a life or death decision whether to even cross the street. watch.
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>> by the way, that spokeswoman you saw talking to the bbc was replaced and demoted this week bay the regime. we can only assume her lies were so obvious they became an embarrassment. that doesn't mean the lies will stop. the regime denied reports of a mass grave near the city of darwa. as many as 20 bodies reportedly dumped into a shallow ditch. what of the 13-year-old boy we showed you moments ago, arrested, tortured, killed, held for a month. that's all that remained of his body after that. the regime denied it all. they say his injuries which according to observers having his penis cut off were the result of a body naturally decomposing. then they trotted out his father and uncle to praise the regime.
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calling the president the best president ever. the lies will not stop because they've changed the spokesperson. the regime of syria has to lie. because the truth of what they are doing is too monstrous to admit. again, 19 reported dead today, at 100 killed so far. and tonight's breaking news, obama administration gathering evidence of possible syrian war crimes, considering whether or not to refer it to the international criminal court at the haig. i talked with a professor at the johns hopkins university school of international studies and with a syrian human rights activist. >> how important do you think this is this report that obama administration is possibly looking into referring charges to the international criminal court? >> well, finally if you will, this is a moment of reckoning for the obama administration. you will remember even 2 1/2 years ago when president obama came to office he had the promise of engaging the regimes
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both at tehran and damascus. even as late as may 19, just about three, four weeks ago, president obama was still holding open the possibility for bashar that he could either lead syria to a reform or get out of the way. so now the decision to refer him to the international criminal court is the right decision. it's a little too late for the obama administration, but better late than never. >> you're actually in the hague right now. you've submitted to the icc evidence of crimes against humanity by the assad regime. what kind of crimes? >> well, the syrian regime have committed -- have seized cities, used the army against civilians. we have enough evidence, and we have already submitted the communication to the office of the prosecutor of the icc with enough evidence that support the claim that there are crimes against humanity committed by the regime, and the head of the regime, president al assad in syria.
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>> how important do you think it is for the u.s. to be involved in this process? >> well, the court, icc, does not have jurisdiction in syria as syria is not a member of the -- nonetheless, the icc has jurisdiction when it comes to the type of crime because it's crime against humanity and also the crimes happened after 2002. nonetheless, for the icc to have full jurisdiction on the case, we need a united nations security council resolution. and to have the obama administration board calling for a referral is of extreme importance to start working towards seeing some justice happening in syria. >> does this have an impact? would it have an impact do you think if the u.s. got involved? not sure if bashir is going to be particularly concerned about the icc, is he?
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>> i think he will be concerned. we're not going to arrest him and bring him to the hague but i think it's important he be identified for the criminal that he is. this ace young man, a young ruler who had illusions about being a member of the community of nations. he is now being banished. what he and his colleagues are doing they're telling us there's a future for syria beyond him. i think for the obama administration again, all illusions pinned on dealing with bashar, the illusions entertained by none other than senator john kerry, the head of the foreign relations committee that he will see the light of day. all this is junk. >> every friday in one sense i sort of hope for what is going to happen in syria, that people will continue to come out in protest. on the other hand, i fear the inevitable crackdown, the inevitable murders that will occur. what happened today? how bad was it? >> indeed, anderson,
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unfortunately today also the military and the security forces continue pressing the protesters and the death toll so far is 19. we're talking about hundreds of people detained. we're talking about more than 60 people injured all over syria. this friday, the number of protestors at the resort in damascus appeared all over syria. the crowd was much bigger. and people are sending a very clear message. no one is talking about reform anymore. i think it's too late. we have reached the point of no return quite awhile ago. and the crowds are asking al assad to step down and to leave. the question is how the transition can happen, what and how can the transition happen. i think that is the important question that syrian opposition has to assume the responsibility and start answering it. >> have you started to see cracks in the regime? . that's the hope. the hope is that in fact this regime would crack from within. we know there is no foreign
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military intervention. you have nato secretary general just in case bashar doubted that maybe we should worry about nato, you have the secretary general saying we intend not intervention in syria. the hope is that it will be. and in fact the syrian opposition is now doing something very important and very intelligent. they are speaking to the community from which bashar hails and they are telling them -- >> which is a relatively small community in the overall population. >> absolutely small but powerful enough and located in the intelligence services and the army and the killer brigades which are controlled and led by bashar's -- >> the protestors are trying to speak to that community saying what? >> they are saying to them, look, you don't have to go down with this man and with this regime. there is a life for you after him and they are trying to reassure him it's not his tyranny or muslim fundamentalism. don't be afraid of your fellow syrians.
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that really is the message of the protests at this time. >> what is it that continues to bring people out in the streets? because they know what is going to happen. they know some of their number is going to get killed. they know that women and children are going to get killed, that men will be killed and tortured and taken. >> freedom. people want to live free, enjoy freedom, be able to contribute and build their own future. it's as simple as that. and the young people of syria have taken that decision and they are not going back to their homes. >> thank you both very much. >> let us know what you think. we're on facebook. a u.s. government operation that was supposed to track guns and smugglers in mexican drug cartels managed to lose track of 1800 weapons including one that ended up being used to kill a u.s. border patrol agent. and so far, not one single high
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government official in the u.s. has taken responsibility. we're keeping them honest. and later, a shocking day in the casey anthony trial. a fistfight outside the court damaging testimony inside the court. and the defense's surprise witness says he has nothing to do with this case at all. we'll have the latest and talk with casey's father's attorney. [ male announcer ] breathe, socket. just breathe. we know it's intimidating. instant torque. top speed of 100 miles an hour. that's one serious machine. but you can do this. any socket can. the volt only needs about a buck fifty worth of charge a day, and for longer trips, it can use gas. so get psyched. this is a big step up from the leafblower. chevrolet volt. the 2011 north american car of the year. [ male announcer ] every day thousands of people are switching from tylenol® to advil. here's one story. my name is tanya and i am from chicago. i'm a mom of 3 daughters. pan can really put a kink in my day
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tonight new development in an epic government foul-up that no one is taking responsibility for. it ended up with a u.s. border patrol agent dead. his name was brian terry, shot dead less than two weeks before christmas. >> brian's attention to detail had insured that all the christmas gifts he had meticulously selected for his family had already been bought and sent in the mail prior to his arrival. brian did ultimately come home that christmas. we buried him not far from the house that he was raised in just prior to christmas day. >> that's brian terry's cousin who's a secret service agent testifying before the house oversight committee. this all started with an atf operation called fast and furious aimed at tracking the flow of guns like these into mexico.
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but it all went terribly wrong. the atf lost track of at least 1800 weapons that went into mexico, including the weapon that ended up being used to kill agent terry. now, this was a high-level operation. it's the kind of operation that an attorney general may sign off on on even someone in the white house. but so far no one has taken responsibility. there's late word tonight in washington that head of the atf may actually lose his job over this. but neither he nor his bosses have yet to stand up and say the mistake was theirs. here's white house spokesman jay carney earlier today. >> i can tell you that as the president has already said, he did not know about or authorize this operation. but the department of justice has said repeatedly that fighting criminal activity along the southwest border, including the illegal trafficking of guns to mexico, has been and is a priority of the department. >> and attorney general holder, last month told the oversight committee he'd only heard of the operation a few weeks ago -- or a few weeks before even though a
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federal agent had die as a result of it months before that. >> now that you've been briefed on it, the president has said on march 22nd that he didn't authorize it. did your deputy attorney general james cole authorize it? >> my guess would be no. >> how about the head of the criminal division, lanny brewer? did he authorize it? >> i'm not sure whether mr. brewer authorized it. >> well, he went on to say he'd wait to see more until an atf inspector general finishes investigating. we put drew griffin and the cnn special investigations unit on the story keeping them honest. >> reporter: december 14th of last year, border patrol agent brian terry, approaches what looks like a routine scene. men gathered along the arizona-mexico border. it turns out they are bandits, helping smuggle illegals into the u.s. there's a gun fight, and agent terry is shot dead. an investigation reveals the weapon used to kill him was
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purchased in the u.s. and here's the catch. the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms knew about that illegal weapon and actually allowed it into mexico. >> and in fact, you believe the people who formulated this plan have blood on their hands? >> without a doubt. >> how the gun that killed agent terry got into mexico was part of a program run by the atf called operation gun runner or fast and furious. the plan? monitor the illegal guns crossing the border, link them to drug cartel leaders, then somehow arrest some of the most dangerous men in mexico. the problem? once the guns got into mexico, agents had no idea where they went. atf agent and whistleblower renee jaquez was the at attache in mexico city at the time. >> the only way you're going to
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find those guns in mexico is where? >> at crime scenes. at the death, at the site of somebody who's dead. at a gun battle between the police and the bad guys. in which either the bad guy was killed and his gun was left at the scene or -- or used during the commission of a crime in which the gun was left behind. >> that makes no sense to me. >> between reasonable men within law enforcement community? no. there is no reasonable explanation to let these guns walk. >> reporter: at least 1800 guns in all. ak-47s, ammunition, all the fire power the cartel needed to continue its slaughter in mexico. >> there is no doubt in my mind that there is accountability that needs to be held here. and those that need to be
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accountable sit at the top table for atf. >> jaquez isn't the only one who wants answers, like who actually authorized the plan. this week hearings were held in congress. the justice department didn't have much to say. iowa senator chuck grassley, the ranking republican member of the senate judiciary committee, says that's unacceptable. he says it was a decision that most likely came from washington, and the highest levels of american law enforcement. >> we think it goes very high up in the justice department. but how high, i'm not sure. >> reporter: right now the justice department is trying to keep the investigation focused on arizona, sending cnn a copy of the letter to the senate saying "the operation was approved by the atf phoenix field office, and the united states attorney's office in arizona per normal practice." the atf has refused to comment, given the ongoing investigation. jaquez says the secret program was doomed from the start
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because it required mexican law enforcement to be involved. what he says about that is simply stunning. >> there was no way that this operation could take place without their cooperation. >> but they weren't cooperating. >> they weren't cooperating, partly because they didn't know about it. they were never informed that this operation was taking place. >> reporter: the most dangerous legacy of all is the guns are mostly still missing. 1,800 weapons which the u.s. government simply allowed into the hands of criminals, some of which have been used to deadly effect. >> the long-term effect of project gun runner is that these guns, unless 100% of them are recovered, there's going to be bodies stacking up in mexico on a daily basis.
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>> drew, this is just a remarkable story. an incredibly outrageous one. how can it be that master plan was basically attract these guns to crime scenes in mexico and no one even told the mexicans? >> that's what's so absurd. this goes against the grain of what every law enforcement officer i've ever talked to is trained. anderson, the plan itself was flawed beginning. atf had no way to track those guns into mexico. mexican authorities as you said had no idea the guns were even there. so the only way you're going to find these guns in essence is to pull them off of dead bodies at crime scenes. and that is what has the senate, congress, just shaking their heads. >> and we have an american border patrol agent dead with one of these weapons. in hearings this week, lawmakers have directed most of their anger at the justice department. do we know i mean who approve this? do we know what level at the justice department was involved
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in all this? >> the frustration on capitol hill this week centers around the department of justice because the senators, the congressmen, believe the department of justice is stone walling. five months now and the department of justice can't tell you who authorized this program. a program this size, this quote unquote groundbreaking, it should take five minutes, anderson. keep in mind this was what they call a t 3 investigation, size and scope would require approval from headquarters. and congressman darrel issareleased e-mails, republican from california, which seems to insinuate the atf acting director, kenneth nelson, was watching these sales, knowing about these sales in real time. so for the department of justice to still not be able to tell us who authorized and at what level seems pretty ridiculous to the congress and the senators who are asking these questions. >> also, atf agents have testified this week about retaliation from their superiors for questioning the wisdom of the program. >> yeah.
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even though they were raising red flags from the very beginning. they're getting shunned in their offices. wei we talked to one agent who's literally retiring over this because he's sort of been blackballed. there were a lot of people who as soon as they heard about this plan, to let these guns just go into mexico, they raise the questions and they were told basically, you shut up. just imagine if this was the other way around. if mexico had some grand plan to do this in reverse and we were finding guns at crime scenes that the mexican government aloud into this country. >> yeah. >> it really seems outrageous from the get go. >> it's incredible. drew griffin, appreciate it. thanks very much. we'll keep following that investigation. coming up for some good news for congresswoman gabrielle giffords. she's being treated on an outpatient basis now and she has some plans for the weekend we'll tell you about. something she's been looking forward to for awhile now. more drama in the casey anthony trial. bizarre fistfight that happened outside the courtroom. we'll tell you why they were fighting and what happened in the court today.
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the defense putting a bug expert on the stand, contradicting the prosecution's bug expert. we'll also have the latest frommed in the court and talk with the attorney for casey's father george. our question, does george anthony want his daughter to be found not guilty? we'll ask his attorney. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. introducing better car replacement, available only with liberty mutual auto insurance. if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose.
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there's more dramatic testimony in the casey anthony trial today as well as some drama outside the courtroom. look at this. a brawl between people fighting to actually get a seat in the trial. we'll have the latest on that
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coming up. first tom foreman has a 360 bulletin. >> reporter: good news for congresswoman gabrielle giffords. she is in her hometown of tucson, arizona this weekend for a short visit with her family. giffords's husband says they've been dreaming of a trip for awhile. doctors say returning to her hometown could play an important role in her recovery. the man dubbed the barefoot bandit pleaded guilty in seattle today to federal charges after leading police on a two-year chase before being captured in the bahamas. colton harris-moore stole an airplane, flew it without a license, robbed a bank and stole a boat. he faces several years in prison when he learns his sentence in october. angelina jolie is in southern turkey visiting with syrian refugees. jolie was named goodwill ambassador for the uk's refugee agency in 2001. she's visited more than 20 countries since then. and maybe you've seen this picture of the couple kissing in vancouver seemingly oblivious to the post-stanley cup rioting going on all around them. the couple has now come forward,
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and they told the toronto star that the woman actually got knocked down by a shield from the police riot squad, and her boyfriend was kissing her to calm her down. mystery is solved there. >> interesting. tom, time for tonight's shot which comes from the u.s. open in maryland. >> near my house. >> golfer rory mcilroy being interviewed. actually the young man in the background caught our attention. look at the eyebrow control on that guy. he's been dubbed eyebrow dance kid online. i'm sure his parents are very proud [ laughter ] yeah. we love that in tv when people behind the people we're interviewing start making faces and stuff. >> yeah. we actually have a pretty good school system out there. this is not testimony to it. >> that's right. yeah. all right, tom, we'll check in with you shortly. for more stories, a lot more coming up inside the casey anthony trial, the defense takes new swings at the prosecution's case. they put their own bug expert on the stand today. and basically poked holes in what the other bug expert for the prosecution said. plus all the drama outside the
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courtroom today that we've been talking about. also had a one-way ticket to the ridiculist a woman who thinks a degree from a fancy school means you get to talk loudly and be rude on trains.
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in crime and punishment, take a look at the scene today outside the casey anthony trial. an all-out brawl broke out as people waited to get inside the
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courtrooms. space limited. the fight erupted when two men tried to cut the line. people have been waiting all night to get a seat. fist fights over courtroom seats. it's been three years since 2-year-old caylee anthony was last seen alive. her mother casey didn't report her missing for a month. we all know that. the toddler's remains were found six months after she disappeared. notice the courtroom for a second day the defense tried to punch holes in the prosecution's case. the focus was what was found inside the trunk of casey anthony's car where it is believed casey's body was stored for days. bugs have become a focal point. >> reporter: his testimony was most unusual. >> i obtained pigs, had them killed. i didn't physically kill them myself. and placed them in the trunk of the car. >> reporter: this is insect expert dr. tim huntington, an entomologist from nebraska who casey anthony's attorneys vince the jury of their shocking theory.
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they say caylee accidentally drowned in the family pool. and then they claim the man who later found her remains actually got the body much earlier, tampered with it, and then deposited it in the woods right before it was discovered. his name is roy cronk, a utility meter reader. >> there's no good reason at the scene why they shouldn't be there. >> and what does that tell you? >> what that indicates is that the body was moved or transported from some other location to the site where it was -- where it discovered. >> reporter: it sounded like what casey anthony and her team wanted to hear, that the body was transferred to the woods weeks or months after the little girl died the then the prosecution swung into action. >> do you mean to suggest to this jury that this body, fully skeletonized in another location and was then moved? >> no, sir, i did not say that. >> reporter: the prosecution theory is that casey anthony murdered her daughter, put the
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body of caylee in her car for a few days, and then disposed of it in the woods. but before prosecutor jeff ashton drilled down on that, he made fun of experimenting with a pig in a car in nebraska, which he says is a bad comparison with a little girl wrapped in a blanket in florida. >> why didn't you wrap your pig in a blanket? i promised i'd say that, judge [ laughter ] >> but seriously, why didn't you wrap your pig in a blanket? >> thank you for saying that. >> that's okay. we needed it right now. >> reporter: laughter erupted in the courtroom from what some may consider a morbid joke. even casey anthony laughed, although she then covered her mouth with her hand. but it was the beginning of a larger point. >> you would agree that this is not a fair representation of what caylee's body or what the trunk would have looked like with caylee's body in it because she was wrapped in a blanket, two bags and a laundry bag. so you agree this is not an accurate description, right?
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>> if you are looking at the final product of decomposition that would be correct. >> reporter: that's not testimony defense wants to hear from its own witness. other testimony was even more damaging. >> how many days is it you feel at this temperature we're experiencing right now that that body was someplace else before it went to that location? and it's around 95 degrees today, as i understand. >> probably around two to three or maybe four days. >> reporter: only, two three or four days before caylee's body ended up in the woods, which is not what the defense wants the jury to think. >> so gary, we showed there the craziness, fighting in line to get a seated in the courtroom. are officials going to do anything about that? >> well, it was the first few days, anderson, the running into the courtroom and the long lines, semi amusing. but the amusement has gone out of it now when people get injured, when the fighting takes place. so they've rejiggered everything.
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they don't want any more lines overnight. there are no lines here right now. there is court tomorrow morning. but they're saying now as you line up shortly before 4:00 in the afternoon, the first 60 people in line will get their names registered. then they come back the next morning to get their tickets. the problem i see, as the days go on and we get closer to the possibility of casey anthony testifying is that people will still be lining up overnight to be waiting here tat 4:00 in the afternoon. so we'll see if that works. they did it for the first time today, 4:00 in the afternoon there. were no problems. >> well, they got to do something. gary, thanks. that brawl wasn't the only drama outside the courtroom today. a surprise witness the defense wants to question a man named vasco thompson held a news conference. casey anthony's lawyers filed a motion tuesday saying they only recently discovered mr. thompson and now want to ask him about four calls allegedly made to george anthony casey's fare before caylee was reported missing in 2008. >> i thank god for being here so i can straighten this mess up. i have no idea who george anthony is.
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i just met him, seen him on tv. i never talked to george anthony. like i say, i don't know him. and the phone number they got in question, i didn't have that phone number until february of '09. and i don't know why they got me involved in all this mess. and that's all i have to say about it. >> well, the judge hasn't ruled yet on whether thompson will become part of the trial. earlier i talked to mark lippman,lawyerwho represents george anthony, represents not only george but cindy and lee anthony, casey's parents and brother. >> mark, the defense tried to raise questions about phone call that is your client allegedly made to a telephone number that's now belongs to a man named vasco thompson. mr. thompson today said he'd never met or spoken to george anthony, didn't know who he was other than what he'd seen on tv. to your knowledge has there ever been any contact between the two men? >> no, mr. cooper.
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i asked my client point blank, and generally i never talk about attorney-client privilege stuff but he authorized me to say. this he's never met this man, never talked to him, never placed any phone calls to him. >> as you sit in this trial and listen to the defense make all sorts of allegations about your client, about casey's father, george anthony, what goes through your mind? i mean, clearly it seems like day after day they are trying all they can to raise as many questions about george anthony as possible. >> well, that's my own personal battle between being a human being and being an attorney. as an attorney i have to represent my client zealously, but also maintain composure and follow the florida bar rules and the constitution on behalf of my clients. but as a person, it just infuriates me colonelly that these things are being said when there's no base basis or foundation for any of the things said about anybody in the family.
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yesterday i believe it was the defense raise the issue of paternity tests done on your client, on george, and also on his son lee, casey's brother. the defense basically then asked a question which cleared lee, but they didn't ask the question about george anthony which seemed to leave open in perhaps a juror's mind that maybe there was some sort of an indication of paternity. >> if that's what the defense is trying to hang their hat on, i'm hoping that the jurist smarter than that. but george was the very first witness called by the state. and the prosecutor at the time, mr. ashton, asked him, have you ever sexually molested your daughter. and he very clearly said no. why is it so important for george and for cindy anthony to be in court every day? >> this is such a unique situation. they've lost their granddaughter, and their daughter is facing the death
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penalty. and they don't know what happened to their granddaughter. so they're trying to find out what the truth is. and they hope to get closure through this. and that's the main reason that they're sitting in the courtroom every day. >> i mean, do they want casey to be found not guilty? >> no. they want to see justice done. and they want to see that this case does come to some type of conclusion. certainly they don't want to see the ultimate sanction that state of florida is looking for, but they want to know what happened to their granddaughter. >> i can't imagine the situation they are in, the difficulty of it. mark lippman, i appreciate you being on. thank you, mark. >> thanks very much. >> the defense is not just trying to poke holes in the prosecution's case, it's trying to sell the jury on their own story about what happened to caylee, involves making george anthony a villain. i spoke earlier to sonny hosten and jean casarez, correspondent from court in session. just heard mark lipmann there. it's got to be a difficult
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situation for george anthony and even for his attorney to hear this stuff day after day, these allegations that are made about him that are completely at this point unsubstantiated. >> it's unbelievable. it really is. and they sit right below me in the courtroom. and i see them writing. i see the button with caylee's picture. i see them with their arms around each other. but as you can see, mr. lipmann is evasive. he says that they want justice. normally when someone says they want justice, that means they want justice for the victim in this case, which is caylee. but they have to be divided. this is a death penalty case. the state is seeking death. they want the jury to recommend death. and believe me, anderson, if there's a conviction in this case and there's a death penalty portion, this couple will fight for casey's life. >> sewn yeah, the defense called a bug expert today who said the smell in casey anthony's car trunk could have been food and not a decomposing body. is this going to come down to a battle of the experts? >> there's no question about it. i think he gave this defense
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team several nuggets they're going to be able to use in closing arguments to poke holes in this prosecution's case. remember, this is a circumstantial case. there is no direct evidence tying casey anthony to caylee anthony's death. so this bug expert did a pretty decent job with helping the defense dismantle this prosecution's case. >> and jean, the bug expert testimony about what kind of bugs were in the vehicle or in the trunk of the vehicle seems to contradict what the prosecution's bug expert had said. >> exactly. because what the prosecution's bug expert said was that initial colonizers, that's what they call them, when decomposition begins, that they come and do their job and then they leave through the cracks in the trunk. well, today the expert said they should have been in there. they should have been dead in the trunk. because they can't leave the trunk. they die in the car. they weren't found there. that's one of the strongest points i think for the defendant
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today. but the entomologist put on an experiment, at least pictures for the jury. it was very tough to look at. it was a pig he had put in the trunk of a car. and the pig decomposed for 11 days. and the jury had to see pictures of this decomposing pig. on cross-examination you can imagine what the prosecution did. they said, you're in nebraska. it's in the fall. it's 60 degrees. it's not florida with 90 degrees. it was a totally different car. it was a pig. it was a pig without a blanket around it. and everybody laughed at that because a pig in a blanket. but you see caylee's remains had a blanket around them, they believe. and in a trash bag and that laundry bag. the pig didn't have that. so prosecution made a lot of points with that cross-examination. >> and sonia, the defense's surprise witness, this is sort of a bizarre thing. he's come out and said, look, i didn't even know george anthony, never heard of the guy. does this make the defense look desperate and kind of throwing up whatever they think might stick? >> i think the way it's being
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portrayed it does. but anderson, let me say. this i have a copy of the motion that the defense filed. what they filed was a motion asking basically permission to depose this witness. because they went to mr. thompson and they wanted to speak to him. they wanted to ask him questions. he refused to meet with them. he also refused to speak to law enforcement. this press conference was the first time, i think, that the defense heard this story, his version of events, that in fact he didn't have this phone in february of 2008. or rather he got it in february of 2009. he didn't have it in the summer of 2008. but they didn't know that. >> not only would this man not speak with the defense, but when their investigator found him that he, vasco thompson, called the police on the investigator. so they felt they had no other course but to do what they did. they still don't have confirmation that he got the phone number in 2009. they say they want that. they may do a deposition tomorrow afternoon of this man.
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>> sonia, you've been around a lot of courtrooms. have you ever seen people waiting to get in to look at -- to watch a trial actually end up in fist fights outside the courtroom? there was a fistfight outside, a scuffle started when the public was on line to get into the courtroom today. people had been sleeping outside to get into the courtroom and they're falling asleep, getting kicked out. have you ever seen anything like this? >> i have never seen anything like this. anderson, you know i've tried a lot of cases. i've covered a lot of cases. this is something that is just so unusual. i don't know if it's a result of social media and people thinking that they really know the players and feel connected to the players. i don't know if it's a result of the fact that the fabric of our society is sort of on trial here, a mother potentially murdering her little girl sort of cuts against what we believe in as a society. i think there are a lot of factors in play here as to why this is such an important trial for so many people to watch -- to be a part of. but it is something i have never, ever seen. >> jean casarez, sonny hosten, thank you.
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coming up on 360 breaking news the possibility of war crime charges against syria's dictator. the regime's deadly crackdown continues there. and for tonight's ridiculist we're all boarding the crazy train. find out why being well educated will not keep you off the list. down the hill? man: all right. we were actually thinking, maybe... we're going to hike up here, so we'll catch up with you guys. [ indistinct talking and laughter ]
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well- well- well- well- time now for the ridiculist. and tonight we're adding a woman whose name we don't know. we'll just call her the educated lady. all aboard, people. here's what happened. on a commuter train here in new york a passenger was reportedly being very loud an cursing, and a conductor asked her to quiet down. the only thing i have to go by is a video that someone surreptitiously took of part of the incident. i don't know if the passenger was indeed cursing. but i do know what happened next. the audio is not perfect but i think it's worth a listen anyway. >> excuse me, do you know what schools i i've been to and how well educated i am? >> clearly you don't know who you're dealing with here. >> excuse me. do you know how well- educated i am? i'm in a private conversation to my friend. >> tell it, sister. i hate when you're having a well- educated private conversation in public and someone tells you to keep it down. rude. then the conductor had the nerve of accusing her of using
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profanity. >> i'm sorry please repeat to me the words i was being profane with. >> she's well- educated. there's no way she was being loud or profane. as we all know, well- educated people do not raise their voices or use swear words. they're way too busy singing in a cappella groups. do you need more proof of how well-educated this lady is? here you go. >> i ride this train all the time in the morning to work and from work all the time. >> see? she rides the train all the time in the morning to work and then later she rides the train again from work. she has mastered the art of telling time. i cannot tell you how many people i see -- you know, like people who went to state schools -- who have no idea they're supposed to get on the train in the morning to go to work. they just roam around the station all night all uneducated and disoriented. not you, well-educated train lay ditch. oh, no. you know what's what. >> but you claim that i -- oh, i
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touched you. oh, i'm sorry. now i need to be kicked off. >> don't touch me. >> all right. please kick me off. i do not -- i want my money back for riding this train. >> the the problem is, she can get her money back, but she cannot get back all the time she's wasted having this inane conversation when she could have been doing something, well, more educated. >> i'm sorry. please stop the train, then. please stop the train. i would prefer that. >> that's right. stop the train. who cares if it's nowhere near a station? stop the train. >> actually i would prefer to have my money back. >> see what you did? nice, calm, conductor lady? well-educated lady wants her money back. she's going to boycott the train. she'll be just fine. she won't get run over or anything walking to work in new york city traffic instead because she has that veritable force field of education that would make the taxis bounce right off her. they teach that at the better schools. then the whole train will just be filled with lesser-educated people acting all polite. will that make you happy, calm conductor lady? >> don't touch me.
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that's number one. >> i don't need to touch you. >> get away from me. >> some of her education might calm off. listen, calm conduct tor lady, i know you were doing your job and very well. but come on. you're dealing with a very well-educated person. not like she's a crazy person. >> i'm not a crazy person. i'm a very well-educated person. >> note to self. when somebody says they're not a crazy person, they seem like a crazy person. so please train conductors of america, before you accuse rude passengers of being rude, just take a minute to think about what school they might have attended. otherwise more of them will end up trying to get off the fast track to the ridiculist. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is charlie whose morning flight
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