tv CNN Newsroom CNN June 28, 2011 8:00am-10:00am PDT
volunteers or any people, those friends, never confided anything like that. i wouldn't do that. i was handling everything on my own and with my wife and son. that was a private matter for us. if i was asked by you or the prosecution or the sheriff's department or the fbi or something about my granddaughter or daughter, i was always giving that information, always gave that willingly and freely as i possibly could. >> just so we're clear, sir, you never told crystal holloway while the two of you were being romantic that this was an accident that snowballed out of control. >> assumes the fact not in evidence. >> ask to ask an answer sustained. >> the answer is no. >> ask an answer. >> sustained. >> your honor, i think the witness's answer was nonresponsive and i just want to
clear the answer. >> to answer yes or no, mr. anthony. >> would you ask that one more time, please? >> you never told her this was an accident that snowballed out of control? >> never did. >> did you ever send her text message telling her that you needed her in your life? >> well, i've seen that information come out. yes, i sent many me text messages to many, many people and yes, i did need those people in my life. >> so, you sent her that text message. >> yes, sir, i'm not going to say that i didn't. >> did you ever leave her any other letters? that you were trying to get to speak with her.
>> i know on one occasion, i stopped by her resident, left her a letter. that's possible. what was in the contents, i don't remember. it was something to cheer her up. make her to feel comfortable, what she was going through in her life. possibly, i did. >> i don't see anything wrong with that. >> can i have just one moment, judge? >> you may. did you at any time ever tell her not to say anything about
your affair with her? >> evidence. >> made the statement -- >> i couldn't hear -- >> i couldn't hear the last words. >> i'm just simply asking if he made the statement or not. >> overruled. he can answer the question. >> sir, i never had a romantic affair with crystal holloway, river cruise or whatever name she wanted to give you or the world. if i'm not mistaken, sir, she has a questionable past and if i can clarify that with you, she also has been arrested for fraud, breaking an entering and stuff like that. she is not a very good person, sir. >> calls for a yes or no answer, sir. >> asked that question to me again, sir. >> did you ever tell her not to say anything about your affair
with her? >> i'm going to say this again. i did not have an affair with her so the answer is no. >> and sir, are you aware that she never did say anything about your affair until the police came to her? >> not in evidence. >> sustained. >> how many times would you say you spoke to miss holloway on the phone throughout the time period of october through january, october 2008 through january of 2009? >> well, again, i stated at the beginning, i did not know her as crystal holloway, i knew her as river cruise. could have been once, twice, ten times. i don't know. >> did you ever speak to her late at night? >> not that i can remember, no. don't believe i would.
>> can i have just one more? >> you may. >> cross-examination. >> mr. baez didn't ask this question, but when was it you knew this lady? >> i met her at the command center, skating rink on golden rod sometime to make the middle to third week of october. >> so, you met her sometime in mid october. >> mid october of 2008. >> and when after caylee's remains were found, your friendship with her ended. at some point. >> basically, yes, i would agree
with yes. it did. >> did you ever tell river cruise that while your daughter was home on bond that you grabbed her by the throat, threw her up against the wall and said those into statements -- >> overruled. >> threw her up against the wall and said, i know you did something to caylee, where's caylee? >> no, sir, i never did that to my daughter. >> no further questions. >> redirect. >> no further questions. >> please stand down. thank you, sir. defense may call the next witness.
search off suburban drive? >> no, sir, i did not. >> did you ask them to videotape that area? >> no, sir, i did not. >> on december 20th of 2008, there was a search warrant served on your home. do you recall that? >> yes. >> did you tell the detective you had your people walk that area a month ago and no one, nobody was there? >> i can't recall if i stated anything to mr. mallich that day. we were just kind of upset they were back during that time frame. >> do you know if you told him -- do you know if you told him you had people walk that area? let me finish the question, where the body was discovered a
month ago and nothing was there. >> again, sir, i don't recall specifi specifics. i just remember being upset that he was in my home on the 20th of december. >> did you also, do you recall if you told him that you had some blankets missing? >> i did recall telling him there was a blanket missing. >> and this was the second time they had searched your home since finding your granddaughter. >> on the 20th, it was the third time. oh, since they found caylee? it was the second time. i'm sorry. >> and the first time they searched your home they left a search warrant at your home? >> on december 11th? no, sir, they did not. >> did they leave an inventory sheet? >> no, sir, they did not.
>> so, you have no idea what they were looking for or what they had taken? >> not on december 11th, no. >> by the 20th, is what i'm asking. when they came for the second search warrant, did you know what they had confiscated on the 11th. >> i believe our takattorney at that time did request the search warrant and items listed and at some point before then, we did get that. >> so, you were aware they were looking for winnie the pooh blankets and bedding. >> there were some 77 items they had taken on december 11th, so i wasn't sure what they were looking for. i think from my recollection, something to do with the sticker. >> prior to september of 2008, did you tell your son, lee
anthony, that you had sent dominic casey and or jim hoover to suburban drive to look for caylee with a video camera? >> i had never told anybody that i sent those guys there because i never sent those guys there. >> what about after, i know just answer, but i want to make sure about the time period. what about after our around the time of november 2008, did you tell lee or have an argument with lee about sending dominic to go and search in that area? >> i had no knowledge of that search. in that area, so i would not have had an argument regarding that. my first knowledge of that search was after caylee's remains were found. >> and you never had a
discussion with him where he confronted you that why are you looking for a dead kid? >> sustained. >> i have no further questions. >> cross-examination. >> witness may stand down. thank you, ma'am. >> thanks. the defense may call their next witness. >> the defense calls lee anthony. >> the whole truth and nothing but the truth --
>> lee anthony -- >> morning, mr. anthony. >> morning. >> mr. anthony, did you ever have an argument or discussion with your mother about sending dominic casey to look for caylee off suburban drive? >> yes, sir, i did. >> can you tell us what happened? >> at my mother's house, we had a -- >> sustained, rephrase your question. >> did you go to your home, your parents' home? >> yes, sir, i did. >> and when you got there, did your mother tell you anything about sending dominic with a video camera to suburban drive?
>> overruled. >> yes, sir, that day. >> what did she tell you? >> that she sent dominic into the woods off of suburban because she got a psychic tip that she wanted to follow up on. >> and when did this conversation take place? >> time or date or -- >> the month of 2008. >> it was later in the year. i don't recall exactly. i'm sorry. >> would it have been before you went back to work? >> i believe it was. >> and when did you go back to work? >> i went back into work i would have started back sometime in october. >> of 2008. >> yes, sir. >> so, prior to october of 2008, you had this decision wiiscussi
your mom. >> yes, sir. >> and did it create an argument between the two? >> might have been one sided on my part. absolutely. i was quite angry. >> why were you angry? >> first time i had ever heard anyone in my family offer it up that they were willing to look for a deceased caylee. prior to that, not even within the realm of anybody's mind set. so i was quite angry. >> thank you, sir. no further questions. >> good morning, sir. >> good morning. >> you had this conversation, this alleged conversation with your mother in october or before october of 2008? >> well, i don't know the exact time frame for sure. i went back to work approxima approximately in october. i know the conversation happened
prior to that because it fueled by decision to go back to work. >> you're aware, are you aware that the mr. casey went into the woods in november? >> that's my understanding, yes, sir. >> so, you had this alleged conversation with your mother before the event actually took place? >> if that's the only time he did that, yes, sir. >> okay. thank you. >> you're welcome. >> the witness stand down. >> actually -- can i have a moment? mr. anthony, what do you mean, fueled your decision to go back
to work? >> made by decision a lot easier to return to work instead of being out of work during that period of time. >> why? >> overruled. >> it was brought up during cross. >> overruled. >> i was very angry. that my mom specifically, but my folks decided to do that without keeping me in the loop and it was something that we for me i couldn't believe that they were even considering that caylee would no longer be with us and they'd be willing to look for her that way and i frankly didn't want anything to do with that, so i decided shortly there after that i am indeed going to go back to work and try to focus
some of my energy across the board. >> thank you. no further questions. >> recross those issues. >> in october of 2008, you were completely sold on the lies your sister had told you. >> overruled. >> yes and no. >> may the witness stand down. thank you, mr. anthony. you may stand down, sir. defense may call their next witness. you may.
>> you've been watching the casey anthony trial out of orlando, florida. this is a host of family members thask called to the witness stand looks like the defense may be wrapping up. we saw testimony from the father, george anthony, who denied that there was any kind of conversation that he had that little caylee's death was an accident, an accident that had gotten out of control. we also saw cindy anthony, the mother of casey anthony.
she was talking about the time in which the child was missing and we just heard from lee anthony, the brother. they're now calling another witness to the stand. this is, i believe an investigator. >> right. lead detective. >> r-i-m-e-l-i-c-h. >> i'd like to direct your attention to december 20th. 2008, when you executed a search warrant at the anthony home. do you recall, sir, when executing that search warrant that mrs. cindy anthony had stated to you that she had her people walk that area, meaning where the body was recovered, a month ago and nothing was in area? >> i recall her saying something to that extent. >> if i showed you a copy of your police report, would that
refresh your recollection? >> i have a copy here, too. >> can you look it over and make sure that's your -- >> page nine, number 33. a different report, just bear with me, please. i recall she made that comment in front of corporal edwards, obviously, i wrote it down, so -- >> and that there was nothing in the area then. >> i can only atoast what i wrote in the report and then she stated she had people walk that area, meaning the area the body was discovered a month ago and
>> you may proceed. >> morning, mr. kronk. >> good morning, sir. >> would you tell us, please, sir, how you were employed during the summer months of 2008? >> i was a meter reader for orange county, sir. >> and how long had you be employed as a meter reader? >> since may 27th of '08, sir. >> what type of meters did you read? >> water meters, sir. >> and did you have an assigned route at that time? >> we were assigned a routes the night before, sir. >> the night before? >> yes, sir. >> every night before? >> we never knew what route we had the next day. it always varied. >> and did you have a general area, a district of orange county that you worked? >> we were in all of orange county, sir. >> in august of 2008, sir, did
you have occasion to be assigned to read meters out by hope springs drive? >> yes, sir. >> and, so are you familiar, sir, in fact with the residence of george and cindy anthony on hope spring drive? >> no, sir. >> did you read all the meters on hope spring drive? >> yes, sir. >> suburban drive? >> yes, sir. >> the meter at the school? >> yes, sir. >> and do you remember on the day of august the 11th, who, if anyone, may have been with you when you were reading meters in that area? >> at the time, nobody, sir. >> you went out there by yourself on august the 11st of 2008? >> i started a route, yes, sir, by myself.
>> did somebody join you out there on that day? >> late in the afternoon, two of my co-workers joined me, sir. >> and who would they be? >> i believe it was david dean and chris, i don't remember his last name. >> do you remember specifically that date, august the 11th, 2008? >> yes, sir. >> what particularly about that date do you remember, sir? >> finding a dead rattlesnake, sir. >> asking you what you particular remember about that date? >> nothing really, sir. >> mr. kronk, on august the 11th of 2008, did you stop your county vehicle on suburban drive? >> yes, sir. >> did you exit at that time and go into the wooded area in order
to relieve yourself? >> yes, sir. >> that's something you customarily did? >> we didn't really have bathroom facilities, so you went where you knew was private? >> you know where the nearest gas station facility is to suburban drive? >> i believe the shopping center at the end of the road, sir. >> now, prior to that particular day, were you aware of the saga unfolding in the search for little caylee marie anthony? >> yes, sir. >> were you watching news reports on the subject matter frequently? >> no, sir. >> did you have a roommate? >> yes, sir. >> did your roommate watch
television and news reports about this search? >> yes, sir. >> did you discuss that situation with your roommate on a daily basis? >> no, sir. >> how often? >> not very often, sir. >> when you went to suburban drive on august 11th, were you aware where the anthony residence was in relation to where you stopped to relief yourself? >> it was the first time i read the routes, so not really, sir, no. >> and on that particular day, sir, did you have anything unusual occur to you while you were relieves yourself? >> no, sir. >> did you go into the woods?
>> long enough to do what i had to do and come straight out. >> did you see or do anything else in the woods besides relieve yourself and walk straight out? >> i looked around, simplt. >> what, if anything, did you find when you looked around, sir? >> i saw a object that appeared a little odd to me. >> did you on that date in time and place, sir, see a bag that appeared suspicious to you? >> i really didn't see a bag per se, sir. no. >> did you lift a bag, sir? >> no, sir. >> on that particular date in time, sir, did you see a skull,
a human skull? a bald human skull. >> i was never closer than 20 to 30 feet from the object and i did see something that appeared to look like something of that nature, yes, sir. >> and sir, did you make any explanation about what you saw and found and did you anything else to anybody? >> no, sir, we found a dead rattlesnake and that pretty much took up the rest of the afternoon. >> when you went in to relieve yourself, sir, were you aware that mr. dean was there? >> yes, sir, i believe so. >> and was it your testimony, sir, that when you went into the woods, that you specifically did not see a skull? >> no, sir. >> then it is also your testimony that you did not then and there say something to mr. dean that you had seen a skull? >> not at that time, no, sir.
>> did he, that is mr. dean, come to where you were? walk from the truck to where you were? >> no, sir. >> mr. dean step on the apparently deceased rattlesnake? >> no, sir. >> mr. dean have any occasion somehow to stumble from his truck and pick up a rattlesnake? >> yes, sir. >> that was there at that time on august 11th, 2008? >> yes, sir. >> and did you have conversation with him during that process that you had just seen a skull? >> i told him that i saw something that looked odd to me, but they were completely
enthralled with the dead rattlesnake, sir. >> did you tell him, sir, that you saw a skull? >> i told him i saw an object that looked like a skaul. i never -- told him. >> okay. what did you and mr. dean do next, sir? >> went back to the office and showed everybody the dead rattlesnake? >> did everybody come out and take pictures of the dead rattlesnake? >> i believe so. >> did you then swrus go home? >> yes, sir. >> did you call the sheriff's department or any other law enforcement agency to report that you had seen what might be a skull? >> yes, sir. >> did you speak to somebody? >> i originally called orange county and they told me they
were not handling those phone calls and i needed to call -- >> did you call crime line? >> yes, sir. >> did anybody respond to you after you made the call about maybe finding a skull? >> no, sir. >> so, you, if you tell them that you had maybe found this skull on suburban? >> no, sir, i told them i saw an object that looked like that, sir. >> and did you mention anybody in the vicinity near the anthony residence residence? >> no, sir. >> so, it's your testimony that despite the fact you called and you may have found a skull, there was no response except call crime lab? >> yes, sir. >> did anybody from any law enforcement agency come and talk to you on that date? >> no, sir. >> did you work the next day,
august 12th of 2008? >> yes, sir. were you reading meters? >> yes, sir. >> where was your route on that day? >> i don't remember, sir. on the 12th of august of 2008, did you have occasion, sir, to call anybody from law enforcement again about the maybe skull? >> no, sir. >> what did you do on that day? >> i read my route i went on. >> you worked as usual and may have seen a skull, pick up a dead rattlesnake, you call law enforcement the next day, it's just back work as usual. >> yes, sir. >> and on the 13th of august, 2008, sir, did you call the sheriff's department dwagain? >> yes, sir. >> did you report in fact you had seen a skull there off
suburban drive? >> i was told to call and an officer would meet me out there. >> sir? i was told to call an and an officer would meet me out there. >> and on august 13th of 2008, did an officer in fact meet you on suburban drive? >> two of them came out, yes, sir. >> do you remember who they were? >> i believe it was officer cain and i don't remember the woman's name -- >> and did you take those officers into the woods to show them where you had seen this maybe skull? >> i never said it was a baby skull -- >> i said maybe. >> sorry. no, i never took them into the woods, sir. >> didn't ask you -- show them where the skull is that the -- >> no, sir.
>> and what did you do then? >> i pointed, we never went into the woods. we were standing out in front and i just pointed in the area where i believed i had seen it, sir. >> all right, let's go back over this and see if we can help. on august 11th, 2008, sir, you did indeed call 911. did you? >> no, i never called 911, sir. >> would it help refresh your recollection, sir, if i show you a transcript of the call august 11th, 2008, to 911? >> i live in osceola county, sir, i called orange county, so i did not call 911. i called the dispatch in orange
county. >> may i approach the witness? >> you may. did you call the nonemergency line? >> yes, sir. >> and did you tell that nonemergency line that you were a meter reader with orange county? >> yes, sir. >> did you tell them that you had a route today that included the anthony's home? >> yes, sir. >> so that you did know the route included the anthony's home? >> when i took the route in the morning, sir, i did not know i had the anthony's route.
>> and sir, did you tell the operator that you were down there by the school and then came back and on left hand side coming back, i noticed something that looks white and there was like a gray bag down in there? you remember telling them that? >> yes, sir. >> you remember telling them your words, i don't know what it is, i'm not telling you it's you know, caylee, or anything of that nature. you remember that discussion? >> yes, sir. >> and -- did you describe the area that you were talking about? the area of suburban drive? >> yes, sir, i told them the general area. >> did you tell them that there were two little in areas that you can go in and there's a big,
long tree laying down? >> yes, sir. >> there's a lot of swamp back in there, well, back behind when the tree is down is a gray bag, then a little bit further up, i saw something white. did you tell them that? >> yes, sir. and when you told them that, sir, was that the truth? >> yes, sir. >> so, you had seen a fallen tree, a gray bag and something right close to that white? yes? >> i was never any closer than 30 feet, sir. i told them, described as best i could what i had seen that day. >> but you saw, you say, which you told the operator, gray bag, a fallen tree, in these woods there's something white that you thought was a skull. >> i said it appeared to be that, yes, sir.
there, was behind one of the trees with a gray, vinyl like bag, look a pool cover or something like that and it looked rather suspicious. i didn't touch it. you remember saying that? >> yes, sir. >> and sir, you were having more detail, you said, a fallen tree that looked like someone had tried to cut on it at one point, but there was a white board hanging across the tree and there was -- i'm asking if he said it. >> sustained. >> did you, sir, tell the operator that there was a tree that looked like somebody had cut on it? >> yes, sir. >> did you tell the operator there was a white board leaning against the tree?
>> a second, there's so many -- on august the 10th of 2008, sir -- thank you. did you draw a map for the law enforcement officers as to where you had? >> on what day, sir? >> get that date, any date? did you draw a map? >> yes, sir. >> and did you when you drew that map, sir, draw in the privacy fence that extended from
the last house on the corner of suburban drive and palm springs, i mean, and hop springs road? >> i don't remember, sir. >> approach the witness, your honor. >> you may. . >> do you recognize that document, mr. kronk? >> yes, sir. >> did you draw it? >> yes, sir. >> and is that a very fairly accurate representation at the time and that you drew two years ago? . >> yes, sir.
>> the point here is that the prosecution alleges that the duct tape was used to suffocate her by her mother, casey. the defense is arguing that this fellow, roy kronk, who first came upon this skull in august, he calls and reports it, so their theory is when it's not collected by the police, roy kronk takes that body, which they say was abandoned by george anthony after an accidental drowning and roy kronk takes this little body, holds on to it for four months, then duct tapes the mandible back to the appropriate position and redeposits back to the woods, scatters the bones and then calls the cops to get the reward. >> the duct tape is the murder weapon? >> it's key. >> the prosecution is saying
they smothered her with that duct tape, so it is crucial they take the tape out of casey's hands and they're saying roy kronk is the one that placed it over the mouth. >> if i can -- >> i'll do it. >> mr. kronk, you see where you've labeled this fence here? >> yes, sir. >> is that a wooden privacy fence from the last house? >> i believe so, sir.
>> and then you drew right off the end of that, an area, can you tell us what you're seeing there, please sir? >> well, the line represents the water. the line with the little thing sticking up represents the tree and that was down and i believe where the -- was found in the area what i believe i saw, sir. >> actually, no, because the bag, i just -- the x next to the board where i saw what i saw, sir. >> can you show me on there, sir, where the tree with the board is? you touch it. >> right there.
>> and the bag, sir, relative to the tree? >> that x. right there. >> and the white, round object that you think was a skull, where was that? >> it would have been where the x was, sir. >> the jury able to see all -- do you know, sir, or can you remember how far from the edge of the road that find you made
>> when you went into that area, sir, had the thought crossed your mind that you might be looking for caylee? >> would you please clarify what date are we talking about? are we talking about august or are we talking about december? >> august the 11th, 2008. >> i never went into the woods in august 11th, sir. >> you didn't go in the woods to relieve yourself on august 11th? >> we have already established that but after that, no, sir, i never went back into the woods.
>> did you tell any or either of the deputies that you had found a bag that you thought may have bones in it? >> no, sir. >> specifically, sir, did you tell deputy richard kane that you think the bag has bones in it? >> i told him i saw an object what appeared to me to look like a skull. >> but did you tell him, sir, that the bag looked like it had bones in it? >> no, sir.
>> the area on august 11th that you went into the woods, was it dry or -- the ground, was it dry or under water? >> it was dry. >> at the time that you were in those woods on that occasion, sir, were you aware of there being a reward offer -- offered for finding of caylee? >> i believe so. >> pardon? >> i believe so. >> did you believe that award to be -- reward to be $255,000?
>> something like that, sir, yes. >> and on that date of august the 11th, as you described it, you saw something and have described it as you have to this jury, were you aware that right around the corner on hopespring was a whole lot of media trucks? >> yes, sir. >> and people? >> yes, sir. >> and did you go and tell anybody that you had found what looked like a skull and bag of bones? >> no, sir. >> anything like that to anybody? other than mr. dean? >> i never said i found a bag of bones, sir. i never said that. >> did you tell anybody that, sir, you found what looked like a skull? did you tell anybody other than mr. dean?
>> i never said i found that, sir. i said i saw something that appeared to look like that. >> did you go tell anybody else that you found something that appeared to look like that? >> my roommate. >> your roommate. but none of all those media trucks that were there, none of all the people in the area? >> no, sir. >> on that date, in fact, sir, did you describe to anyone that what you saw appeared to be white, looked like the top of a skull sticking out of a bag? >> yes, sir.
>> and was, sir, the bag that you saw in august of 2008 the same plastic bag that you saw in december, december the 11th, 2008? >> i wouldn't know, sir. >> do you believe it's the same bag? >> i wouldn't know. >> do you recall, sir, having your deposition taken on july 30th of 2010 at the state attorney's office in the adjoining building right down here, where miss linda drane-burdick was present, jose baez was present, michelle medina was present and i was
present, and your lawyer, david evans, was present. do you remember that? >> yes, sir. >> counsel, i direct you to page 18, question on line 19. the question to you, sir, at that time was do you believe the bag you saw in august was ultimately the same plastic bag you saw in december. answer, yes, sir. do you remember that question and answer? >> yes, sir. >> were you attempting to tell the truth at that time? >> i was told that it was the same bag, so yes, sir. i never came to that conclusion on my own. >> you were told it was the same bag? >> well, not really. that was a bad way. i shouldn't have said that. no, sir. i was -- i don't know.
i really just -- i don't remember. if i said yes, then yes, it is. >> after you found that skull at that time and place, sir, did you try to get your co-workers to go with you to look at it? >> what date are we speaking of? >> august the 11th, 2008. >> i tried to point it out to them, sir. >> so you did talk to them about thinking you saw a skull. >> i told them i saw a white object, they saw the dead snake and everything from that point out became about the dead snake. >> on that same deposition as we just identified, going to page 19, the question on line 19, see if you remember this. so what did you do upon seeing the skull? answer, i tried to get the two guys that were with me to look at it. they were too busy playing with
the dead snake. you remember that question and answer? >> yes, sir. >> this would be a good place to stop, mr. mason. >> yes, sir. >> okay, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the time is now 12:00. we are going to be in recess until 1:30. i'm going to ask that you not discuss this case among yourselves, nor with anyone else and please remember all of my previous admonitions. we'll be in recess until 1:30. any additional instructions on behalf of the state? or the defense? >> no, sir. >> we'll be in recess. >> all rise for the jury. >> you're watching the casey anthony trial. the defense putting on its own witnesses and roy kronk, very important to the defense here. this was the water meter reader who had discovered the 2-year-old little girl's remains, the skull and the other bones. joining us is holly hughes, our legal expert, to kind of explain and put this all into
perspective. why was he so important today? >> he is key, because they are trying to say, they being the defense team, that roy kronk is the one who applied that duct tape to the baby's skull. they're saying he found the remains in august, reported it, nobody did anything about it, so he went back and took those remains, collected them up, held on to them for four months, and then decided oh, now there's a big reward so now i'm going to take them back out, put them back into that same area, scatter the bones around, and boy the way, while i'm at it, why don't i take duct tape and place the mandible which is the lower part of the jaw, suzanne, for our viewers, let me put it back in the exact anatomically correct position and tape it back on the head. >> why is that so important, though, the significance of the duct tape? why is that considered a murder weapon? >> because the prosecution says that she chloroformed her little girl, she being the defendant, casey, chloroformed caylee so she could go out and party, and they say she had done all these internet searches looking up how
to make chloroform so she chloroformed the little girl and then she took that duct tape and she wrapped that tape around that baby's skull so that it covered the mouth and the nasal passages which would have cut off her ability to breathe. she would have suffocated that child and they are claiming, the prosecution says that's the murder weapon. if the defense can convince this jury that roy kronk applied the duct tape, casey doesn't have the murder weapons in her hand. you take it away from her and she can't be responsible for first degree murder. >> does this change at all their story, the defense story, that this child accidentally drowned? >> no. as a matter of fact, that's the really odd part, suzanne. they are asking the jury to make huge leaps in logic. they start off with this story that the baby accidentally drowned in the pool and casey's father, george anthony, scoops the body out, doesn't attempt cpr, doesn't attempt mouth-to-mouth, doesn't call 911, and remember, suzanne, this
is an ex-detective. this is a man who was used to coming upon crime scenes and used to trying to save life and resuscitate. but what he does, according to the defense, is hold this dripping wet baby, casey comes out and sees this, and he starts screaming at her, you're going to go to jail forever for child neglect for the rest of your life, your mom's not going to forgive you. so he comes up with this great idea to cover the whole thing up and hide the body. now, the defense did not explain in opening what george did with the body, what happened after that. they told the jury we don't know how roy kronk figured out where the remains are. so they want the jury to believe all these things but they have no evidence of it. >> so george, the father, he was up on the stand as well and there were two things he denied that seem pretty important. the first one is that he did not have an affair with one of the volunteers who was looking for this little girl's body, and the second thing is that he said he did not tell her that this was an accident that snowballed, that got out of control.
why was he called today? why was that important? >> absolutely. what they're trying to do again is prove that george anthony is a liar. the defense wants that jury to believe that he is an abuser, that he sexually molested casey, his daughter, and that's why she didn't report anything because she's used to lying. so when they put george on the stand, they are trying to say he is an adulterer, which means he's practiced at the art of deception. remember, if you're a married person having an affair, you got to keep it quiet, you got to cover it up. you don't want it to be on the front page. they've got crystal holloway, also known as river cruz. she's got some aliases. >> this is the volunteer looking for the child. >> right. who says she had an affair with george anthony. they have her waiting in the wings. they put george up first and let her say i did not have a romantic relationship with her, and secondly, and this is huge, suzanne, i never said to her that this was an accident, that snowballed out of control. i did not say that ever. so you better believe we're going to see the defense calling
crystal holloway, also known as river cruz, to the stand to refute that and say absolutely, we had an affair. >> to prove he's a liar, he's not credible. holly, stay with us. we will be following all the twists and turns of the casey anthony trial. clearly, they're trying to throw everything they've got into this, into the defense, and we expect that this will continue about 1:30 or so this afternoon. also want to get you up to speed on other big stories that we're following today. there is a raging wildfire chasing everybody out of los alamos, new mexico, today. more than 10,000 people are under orders to get out. the fire is also threatening the los alamos national lab, the nation's premier nuclear research facility. officials say all hazardous material, however, is safe and secure. officials say that flood waters lapping at nebraska's two nuclear plants are more of an annoyance than a safety concern. operators are emphatic. they say even if water gets
inside, they say it's not going to set off a disaster like the one we saw at japan's fukushima nuclear plant. boston mob boss whitey bulger goes to court in two hours. that's happening. prosecutors are going to argue that bulger, not taxpayers, should pick up the tab for his legal defense team. bulger is charged with 19 counts of murder. prosecutors say that bulger bragged that he had been back to boston several times during the 16 years that he was on the run, and they say he described himself as armed to the teeth and was in boston to take care of quote, unfinished business. anger boiled over in greece today. a cnn crew got caught in the chaos. just take a look at this. as you can see, there is quite a lot of fighting now going on between protesters and we're being forced out of the way. >> very dramatic video and
really a dangerous situation. union workers are protesting government proposals for state tax hikes and spending cuts and the european union wants those measures in place before it's going to give greece any more bailout money. we're waiting on nasa to release new pictures of congresswoman gabrielle giffords. she attended an awards ceremony for her husband, astronaut mark kelly, in houston. that happened last night. her first public appearance, that was her first since she was shot in the head. a reporter who was there say giffords was in a wheelchair but was animated and she stood to kiss her husband. no more drop-side cribs. why they are being banned in every home across the country.
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more on the wildfire threatening one of the most secretive research centers in the world. the los alamos national lab in new mexico is where the atomic bomb was created. well, it is closed today and the town of los alamos is practically deserted now. we are joined by phone from santa fe. first of all, how close is the fire to the lab and to the town? where were you when you were actually evacuated? >> i was in los alamos at my home. i actually left the laboratory about noon, anticipating the need to evacuate, and i am now in santa fe and trying to pass some time to see what happens with the laboratory, given the dire circumstances. >> floyd, you evacuated yesterday from the lab even
before it became mandatory. can you tell us why? did you suspect there was going to be a problem? >> well, mostly it was because the smoke had inundated the town. previously, the smoke had risen to an altitude where it wasn't so difficult to be in town, but come monday, the smoke was lower and it was throughout the town, and it was very difficult to see and breathing was a little difficult, at least in some areas. >> floyd, you work at that lab. how protected is that lab to fire, to smoke, the kinds of things that we're seeing, this danger, this level of danger today? >> well, first, i would like to point out that i'm not an official spokesperson for the laboratory. >> sure. >> but i can speak to you as a citizen of los alamos. >> sure. >> and the town, you know, 11 years ago we experienced a very similar event so with the experience gained from that, people definitely have a
sensitivity to their safety, especially in this fire circumstance. >> are there protections to this lab? can you talk at all about any kind of protection to the lab? >> yes. keep in mind the lab is 42 square miles and the buildings are distributed around that 42 square miles. so no single, should there be a building that would become jeopardized, it wouldn't spread to other buildings so readily. also, keep in mind that these buildings are robust. most of them are, the hazardous facilities are concrete and all the buildings at the laboratory are sprinklered so there's a lot of safety features built in. with the experience from the last fire 11 years ago, learned a lot and you know, a lot of, for example, the vegetation has all been thinned out and a lot of precautions in that manner have taken place, as well as
things like the evacuation itself was very orderly. >> floyd, have you gotten any sense, any updates on when you might be able to return to work? >> well, no. i haven't heard. but if the last event is an example, probably four or five days. this fire had spread very quickly, much quicker than the previous one. so i suspect that it may burn itself out quicker. i'm sure that's the hope. >> all right. floyd, thank you very much. we appreciate your time and certainly hope that you'll be able to get back to work as soon as possible but obviously, safety's first concern. we will go beyond the headlines to explain what we are talking about, the super-secret lab here, now closed, the area evacuated. what are they trying to protect? >> for one thing, what we know is there's no immediate danger to folks like floyd, folks on
the ground there. that's something good right now. but lost al alamos is one of th nation's top research security facilities. there is history there as well. this laboratory was established in 1943, part of the manhattan project. it had one purpose. design and build an atomic bomb. the world's first nuclear bomb was detonated just 200 miles from the los alamos facility. we have a map here showing you the lab's about 35 miles northwest of santa fe, new mexico, sits on 36 square miles of property owned by the department of energy. almost 12,000 employees work at the facility and all nonessential workers have been sent home until this fire gets under control. >> what is actually inside of this facility? >> a lot of high tech stuff, suzanne. among other things this lab is home to a particle accelerator, talking about super-computers as well. nuclear material is at the facility. the central structures are well protected. that's what officials are telling us. here's the statement that was front and center on their
website this morning. fire crews have contained a spot fire that started in a remote area of the los alamos national laboratory. no other fires are currently burning on lab property. no facilities face immediate threat. all nuclear and hazardous materials are accounted for and protected. be that as it may, just hearing the words los alamos and wildfire in the same sentence, those two terms don't play well together. >> a lot of people kind of worried about that. i'm glad it's not as bad as we think. >> not at this point. >> thanks. checking our stories from around the country. raleigh, north carolina, a bus wreck killed lorenzo charles, a former basketball star who led nc state to a national championship in the '80s. charles was 47 years old. he was a bus driver and was driving this charter bus when it careened off the interstate. there were no passengers on board at the time. this is the wreckage left behind by the powerful tornado that devastated western alabama
two months ago. a local reporter toured some of the hardest hit areas in tuscaloosa and found little progress since the storms that killed 43 people in that town alone. an update on the story of this 95-year-old caught up in an airport screening in florida. the tsa says they did not order the woman to remove her diaper, depends. now the woman's daughter says that is true. she was not forced to take off the diaper but she says security made it clear that her mother would not be allowed to board a plane until the diaper was inspected. right now in greece, protesters are venting their frustrations with government cut-backs and they are on the streets of athens right now. the economy there is reeling and the cuts are a result of demands from the international monetary fund that greece get its finances back in order. it's important to remember here that the economic problems in greece could have an impact on
you personally, especially if you've got a 401(k). alison kosik, this will affect all of us because there is a ripple effect. how does this happen? what can we see about our own retirement funds if you take a look at these demonstrations in greece? what's the connection? >> reporter: well, the demonstrations themselves not having an impact on the market today but you talk about what's happening in greece financially and it's really the big fear of the unknown that's the concern, that could wind up driving down stocks throughout europe and here at home. the very same stocks that i'm talking about that are in the funds that make up all of our retirement portfolios. one analyst says the biggest threat to the global economy in terms of what's happening in greece is psychological because when you think about it, the greek economy isn't huge, but it's connected to a lot. it's like six degrees of separation. if greece defaults on its debt, it could disrupt the european banking system and cause investors to pull their money out of the markets.
a big problem here is that we really don't know how big the ripple effect will be until it happens, so it's that uncertainty that really is that fear that could drive the market down. >> tell us about this prominent ceo who came out today with a strong warning that this is connected, this crisis in greece, and why is he so worried about it? >> reporter: this definitely caught our eye. talking about joseph ackerman, ceo of deutsch bank. he said if it's greece alone, that's already big but if other countries are drawn in, it could be bigger than lehman. we all remember what happened to lehman, referring to the 2008 collapse of lehman brothers, it sparked the global financial crisis. lehman went down, aig got a bailout. bank of america took over merrill lynch. it shows how interconnected the financial system is globally. critics say these calls are alarmist because the u.s. can deal with a greece default because these critics say u.s.
banks have investments in europe but they have been boosting reserves and can withstand europe's problems better than before the financial crisis. it looks like the markets today are weathering all of the volatility going on in greece right now. the dow up 118 points. investors at this point are optimistic that a deal can be worked out. >> a little bit on the lighter side, we have somebody we think is really upset about all the cuts in greece. the stray dog. take a look at him. he might be the most famous pooch in athens right now. why? because he's reportedly been barking alongside these protesters at anti-government rallies since 2008. not even tear gas or riot police are enough to make him leave his comrades. >> reporter: is someone trailing dog food along the way to keep him coming? >> we don't know exactly. we kind of suspect there's something behind this. whether or not he's really ticked off about the budget cuts or is just hanging around for the treats. the protesters, they think and
consider him an ally in this fight. you see the dog everywhere. >> reporter: i would, too. poor guy. hope he doesn't get tear gassed. that's kind of sad. >> he's doing okay, we understand. >> reporter: he's good? good to know. >> we'll have more after the break. when an investment lacks discipline, it's never this obvious. introducing investment discipline etfs from russell. visit russelletfs.com r a prospectus, containing the investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and other information. read and consider it carefully before investing. [ slap! slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium rich tums goes to work in seconds. nothing works faster. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums
here's a rundown some of the stories ahead. up next, drop-side cribs are now history. i'll tell you why the government says it's no longer an option for parents. then, no more bad shots. not even if you can somehow get your hands on a revolutionary new camera. we will get the big picture from silicon valley. and later, got to be the eyes, right?
it's a baseball star struggling during the day because his eyes are blue? we will take a look at josh hamilton. back to the lead story. the riveting testimony in casey anthony's murder trial. we brought you extensive live coverage of testimony from the man who found the decomposed body of casey anthony's 2-year-old daughter, caylee. you also saw live the anthony family, the father, the mother, the brother, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor holly hughes is joining us again to make sense of this. first of all, we saw this meter reader, the water meter reader, come out. he's the one who discovered the body. why was that so important that they put him on the stand? >> it's critical to the defense, because the prosecution's theory of the case is that casey anthony, the defendant, duct taped her little girl caylee's mouth and nasal passages shut so she suffocated. what they're saying is the duct tape is the murder weapon. what the defense is alleging is that roy kronk is actually the one who applied that duct tape
and their theory seems to be, suzanne, that he sees this body out in the woods sometime in august, he calls the orange county sheriffs, they say to him eh, we're not taking those calls, call crime line. so he calls crime line, reports it, nothing happens. nobody comes out and does anything about it. so they allege that he then picks up the remains himself, holds on to them for four months until the reward gets nice and big, and then roy kronk, who defense attorney jose baez called morally bankrupt in his opening, then comes up with this genius plan to take the bones back out to the woods in the same area, scatter them all around and place the mandible, the lower part of the jaw, back in the anatomically correct position and duct tape it to the skull. so what the defense wants you to believe is that roy kronk, this meter reader, has applied that tape and not casey anthony. so therefore, it's not the murder weapon and she's not the murderer. >> does he have any credibility?
does he have a history of domestic violence? is there anything they used against him to discredit him? >> he does have a history of domestic violence. in fact, one of the allegations that he used duct tape on one of his ex-wives' mouths but here's the thing. i'm sure they've had motions in limine. that's just a legal term for let's talk about it ahead of time, judge, before the trial. we've got this issue, we don't think the jury should hear it so the prosecution would have said if he's going to testify, judge, we don't want them to get into it. it's past bad acts which cannot be brought up on a witness. >> so the jury doesn't know about it? >> they don't and i don't think they're going to be allowed to know. i think they have probably done that motion ahead of time, said it's irrelevant, more prejudicial than probative and there's no reason. i don't think the jury will hear it. >> the father was on the stand as well, george anthony, and he denied two things. one, he denied that he was having an affair with one of the volunteers that was looking for the 2-year-old, and then secondly, he denied telling that volunteer that this was an accident that just snowballed
out of control. was he convincing? was that important? >> i think -- i got to tell you, i find george anthony to be very credible as a witness. in those two things, you're right, they are major because they defeat the whole idea that this was an accidental drowning because what the defense wants is for this alleged mistress, crystal holloway, also known as river cruz, she's another one with a past. what i thought was brilliant, if you watched george anthony testify, jose baez had him on direct which means you can't sort of object to what your own witness says unless it's nonresponsive so he says do you know someone named crystal holloway and george anthony slips in well, sir, i know her boy a few different names. you know she's been convicted of fraud. you can't unring that bell. the jury heard that. they know she's a convicted liar. so he said two really important things. number one, i did not have an affair with this convicted liar. and number two, i never, ever said this was an accident that snowballed out of control.
we're going to see the defense put her up to try and counter what george anthony said, and make the jury think he's the liar, not her. >> you brought up an important point last hour. you said it was what they didn't ask him. they didn't ask him about this whole proposition that he sexually abused his daughter and that he accidentally, he discovered the accidental drowning, the little girl, and tried to cover it up. they didn't ask that at all. >> they haven't gone there. we have to wonder why. i'm telling you, i think it goes back to friday. they can still recall him. they can do that. but we are to the end of this trial. we are getting down to the wire. why not put him on the stand and just say it, just go after him? they haven't done it. you'll remember, we've talked about this, on friday lee anthony testified. it was incredibly emotional. i've heard some reporters say the jury was laughing after that testimony but i think he was sincere. i think for the first time in
this entire trial, we saw true real genuine emotion from lee and from casey, and i wonder if seeing her brother's heart break like that did not get to her, and she started to feel guilty about throwing her family under the bus because the very next day is when her lawyers went to the judge and said we don't think she's competent to continue, we think she's a little nutty. i think she's trying to change the game plan on them and they're nervous. >> got to leave it there. thank you so much. we'll be following. we know this will continue at 1:30. we will follow closely. thanks. there's a warrant out for the arrest of libyan leader moammar gadhafi. some of the international community want to add rape to the charges against him. john voss will join us to discuss the criminal case being built against gadhafi.
there's already a warrant out for the arrest of libyan leader moammar gadhafi but now the international criminal court wants to add rape to the list of those charges. john vause is here to go beyond the headlines with the criminal case that is being built against gadhafi. tell us what this is about, john. >> the icc issued a warrant for gadhafi, his son and also his son-in-law, essentially for crimes against humanity. the indiscriminate use of anti-personnel mines for cluster bombs as well as firing missiles into tripoli and benghazi. now they want to add the charge of rape but this is harder to prove. you have to go out for the prosecutors and show there is evidence, there is a direct link between gadhafi and systematic rape carried out by his men in the field. this is really hard to prove. amnesty international was in libya for a couple months, came
up with no proof. human rights watch has been there for some time and reportedly came up with nothing. that isn't to say it hasn't happened. we heard about the man who burst the into the tripoli hotel where all the international reporters were staying, saying she had been pack raped by gadhafi's men. since then, it has been shown that women have been raped by gadhafi's soldiers. there has been a lot of talk that gadhafi's soldiers have been issued viagra and condoms and were told by senior officers to go out and rape. the open question in all this is how far up the command chain did that go. that's what prosecutors need to prove. it's very difficult. >> some are saying that because of this, this would really discourage gadhafi from stepping down because essentially, he's in a corner and once he leaves the country, that's it, they can get him. >> this is the argument. the international arrest warrant has an upside and downside.
the downside is it now means gadhafi is more likely to dig in. he's not going to have a negotiated settlement where he goes into exile because only 43 countries around the world are not a signatory to the rome statute, the icc. those countries are places like china, saudi arabia, sudan, pakistan. they're not the kind of places that a former dictator wants to live out the rest of his days. he's more likely to dig in and not have a negotiated settlement. the upside of the arrest warrant is it puts pressure on all those around gadhafi and already, we've heard from the icc prosecutor telling the aides to gadhafi you got a choice here. you can be part of the solution, you can turn on your boss, you can arrest him, or you can face prosecution when the regime finally falls and in the short term, what it could also do is encourage some more high-ranking defections. if you know there are repercussions at the end of all this, those who are very senior within the libyan government may
think it's time to get out. >> libya never signed on to icc authority in the first place to bring him to trial. how does this work? >> the libyans say you can issue an arrest warrant for whatever you want but there's no jurisdiction here. and that's true. the icc doesn't have a police force. it's dependent upon law enforcement agencies with those countries that are a signatory to it, and this was a very similar argument which was had a couple years ago, when an arrest warrant was issued for sudan's president first for crimes against humanity and then genocide. bashir is still president in sudan, just arrived in china on a state visit. suffice to say right now gadhafi has bigger problems than this arrest warrant. >> john vause, thank you very much. a type of crib considered a death trap for children. as of today, it is illegal to sell or even donate them. we will tell you what to look out for. the bundler. let's say you need home and auto insurance. you give us your information once, online... [ whirring and beeping ]
there's a new camera on the way that could change the way you take and experience pictures. this is so cool. it is not how you set up the shot. it is what you can do with the picture after it's taken. silicon valley correspondent dan simon tells us all about it. >> reporter: the point and shoot camera as we know it is becoming less important. many of us now are content with the pictures we take from our cell phones. but a new silicon valley startup
called lightro is poised to shake things up with what it says is a revolutionary new camera. right now, it's just a tease. all you can do is check out some pictures on the company's website. not impressed yet? well, watch this. you can change the focus of the picture after it's taken. see this mom in the background? baby is slightly out of focus. click on him and he becomes crystal-clear. check out this cafe. sandwich looks very good but you want to see the man in the window? just click on him and he becomes sharp. the break-through, says the developer, is the camera is able to capture more light than others. >> the key to this at its core is such a powerful technology break-through that this will forever change how we all take and experience pictures. >> reporter: just how much of a game changer is it? we spoke with richard hernandez, a professional photographer now
teaching at uc berkeley. lytro gave him a camera to test but because the company is still in stealth mode, it put the device in a protective case so hernandez hasn't actually seen it. >> it's masked. it's like a brick of plastic. i don't know what it is. i really can't tell you what is inside there. >> reporter: but hernandez says he was instantly sold after taking his first picture. >> you know, my job pretty much dropped on the floor. there's no question about that. i knew immediately when i saw what it could do, it was just going to be a whole new ball game for photography. to be able to now shoot a picture and be able to refocus it later and not have to worry about that i think is a big deal. >> reporter: lytro has set up shop in this nondescript office building near google. it's so secretive, it wouldn't let us shoot inside.
>> dan simon joins us live from san francisco to put everything into focus. you like that line? focus? all right. how quickly, how fast can we get one of these guys? >> reporter: that's a great question. of course, i asked the ceo that. he's just saying sometime later this year and they're not saying anything about price. of course, that's what it's going to come down to in terms of whether or not you have widespread adoption is what is this going to be priced at. they say it will be competitive. it's also worth noting he could have sold this technology to one of the big-time camera makers like nikon or canon but decided to keep it for himself. he thinks he's on to something and he will build what he says is a revolutionary product. >> pretty cool stuff. dan, thank you. type of crib considered a death trap for children. as of today, it is illegal to even sell or donate them. we will tell you what you need to look out for. so i took my heartburn pill and some antacids. we're having mexican tonight, so another pill then?
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unlike fish oil, megared softgels are small and easy to swallow with no fishy smell or aftertaste. try megared today. starting today, it's illegal to sell or even donate these so-called drop-side baby cribs. new federal rules were passed after dozens of children died and our cnn medical producer mary ann falco joins us to explain when a drop-side crib is, how does it work and how dangerous is this? >> this is an example of a
drop-side crib. it can be really, really dangerous. so far, at least 32 children have died since 2000 and 11 million cribs have been recalled, mostly because they were drop-side. this is only since 2007. so this is the concern that babies can get stuck. let me show you. you see this side is down already. the benefit of this is you can move the slides up and down, which is really, really convenient. i had a baby two and a half years ago, almost two and a half years ago, and i wanted one of these because i'm short and it's easier to put the baby in. >> sure. >> but right after i registered, i unregistered because i had heard the first warnings about these beds because these things can break. they can break in a couple of different ways. these parts that are so movable can break away, a gap can create, be created between the mattress and then let's pretend this is the baby. it can get stuck. it's not able to pull over right
now but it could get stuck between the mattress -- >> and the slats. >> and the slats. and the baby could suffocate or get strangled. another thing is they could fall through and all the way on the ground and injure themselves, too. they're saying don't use these at all. >> how do you know the crib you have is safe? >> well, if you buy it starting today at any store, they should not be selling anything that's not safe. that is the rule as of today. the only cribs that are going to be sold will be these ones that are supposed to meet the new standards. these new standards, not only are they not supposed to be drop-side, but the bolts all over the place should be stronger, the screws should be stronger, they also are concerned about the mattress. the supports for the mattress. because even they can break, a gap can be created, a baby can slide through or the mattress can slide through and the baby falls down. >> what if you can't afford a new crib and you've got something like this? is it good enough? >> well, there are a couple
things you can do. there's one thing you can do. we have a v.o. of this. you can get a piece that will keep these drop-sides from going down. you secure it here or on either side, you can see it in the video right there. it will prevent the side from going down. it should make the crib sturdier. but really, the recommendation is if you have one, get rid of it, get a new one. >> if you buy a new crib, can you assume that that crib is safe for your baby? >> well, you should ask. you should ask for proof that these new cribs are meeting the new standards. they should all, every crib in the store now should be safe and then in addition to that, there's a couple other things you can do to make your crib safe. if everything is sturdy, it stays up, you want to make sure that the crib is as empty as this one right here. no pillows, no blankets, no plush bumpers. you might think i'm trying to prevent my baby from getting dinged here. well, the baby could suffocate.
babies should sleep with nothing, just keep the temperature in the room warm or dress the baby warm and your baby should be safe. >> great advice. thank you. stay away from these. >> yes. >> thanks. appreciate it. so do you start the day off tired or refreshed? kind of all depends on how much sleep you're getting, right? how much sleep do you think the average american gets? is it a, 5 1/2 hours? b, 7 hours? c, 8 1/2 hours or d, 10 hours? the answer coming up. first, free money advice from the cnn help desk. >> time for the help desk, where we get answers to your financial questions. joining me this hour, greg mcbride, senior financial analyst at bank rate.com. lynnette cox, founder of the financial advice blog, ask the money coach.com. holly in chesterfield, missouri says my husband and i max out our 401(k) each year. we cannot contribute to a roth ira due to income limitations. if we invest in an i.r.a. we're
not eligible for the tax deduction for the same reason. should we invest in an i.r.a. or perhaps just a mutual fund. great question. >> well, you can't invest directly in a roth i.r.a. because of your income limit but there is an end-around. what you can do is you can invest directly in a traditional i.r.a. you won't get a tax deduction, and then immediately convert that to a roth i.r.a. you will have a minimal tax obligation as a result of the conversion and future growth will be on a tax-free basis. where it does get more complicated, however, is if you have other assets that are already on a traditional i.r.a. basis and you are only converting a portion of that. >> okay. gino in alabama says i'm 70 years old and retired. what's the best way to invest my i.r.a. with minimum withdrawals each year? i do not need the money to make my budget. >> one thing i think people need to think about when they talk about withdrawal strategies is think about a percentage of money you are going to withdraw on an annual basis. a lot of financial planners say a 3% to 4% withdrawal rate is about right. just as a guideline, they should look within that range.
the other thing is to think about how much money you will actually need. this person probably is in a pretty good position, said i don't need the money in order to make my budget. that means they've got some other cash put aside. that really opens up a wealth of possibilities to you. maybe you can be a little more aggressive with this money and not be so conservative as folks would typically be when they're 70 plus. >> okay. have a question you want answered? send an e-mail to cnn help desk at cnn.com. impressive resume. thank you. you know what, tell me, what makes peter peter ? well, i'm an avid catamaran sailor. i can my own homemade jam, apricot. and i really love my bank's raise your rate cd. i'm sorry, did you say you'd love a pay raise asap ? uh, actually, i said i love my bank's raise your rate cd.
before the break we asked you how much sleep you think the average american gets. is it a, 5 1/2 hours. b, 7 hours. c, 8 1/2 hours. or d, 10 hours. believe it or not, a study by the labor department found it was c, 8 1/2 hours. we suspect it's the teenagers. a major league ball player is blaming his hitting slump on his baby blues. that's right. texas rangers slugger josh hamilton claims his blue eyes can't filter glare like people with brown eyes. in fact, his stats actually bear it out. he hits much better at night
than during the day. doctors say hamilton may be on to something. he's going to wear red contact lenses for now just to see if his numbers improve. well, at the mercy of customs and immigration agents. married same sex couples find no protection in the federal law. ♪ [ male announcer ] and just like that, it's here. a new chance for all of us: people, companies, communities to face the challenges yesterday left behind and the ones tomorrow will bring. prudential. bring your challenges.
green card but if you're a same sex couple, that's not the case. one couple found that out the hard way. one of them is getting deported in a week. soledad o'brien has the story. >> reporter: nestled deep in the scenic hills of vermont, takako and frances herbert appear to be living the life of a newly married couple. time is running out on their happiness. >> so it's been like a ticking clock, yes. anticipatory grief. >> reporter: takako, born in japan, is days away from being deported even though she is legally the spouse of a u.s. citizen. >> this is my family. because i have established for 11 years with frances and our little dogs and cat and home and beautiful nature. >> reporter: they were married on april 26th. vermont is one of the few states where same sex marriage is
legal. with deportation looming, the couple got a lawyer. so explain to me why, if a couple's legally married, as frances and takako are, it doesn't count for the federal government when it comes to immigration. >> she should be able to sponsor the person that she is married to and the person that she loves for a green card, but because the defense of marriage act bars the federal government from giving them any federal benefits on the basis of their marriage in vermont, and so because immigration law is entirely federal, that means there's no way that frances as an american can sponsor takako as her spouse. >> reporter: when is takako due to be removed from the country? >> her visa runs out on july 5th. >> reporter: the obama administration announced it would stop defending the defense of marriage act in court, calling it discriminatory. some recent deportation cases have already been suspended. conservatives like congressman james lankford say that's not
right. >> you can't just as an executive branch reach back to a previous law that is on the books and say we're not going to enforce that. that is the job of the president of the united states. it's a pretty frightening precedent. >> reporter: is refusing federal benefits like immigration rights to married same sex couples unconstitutional? attorney general eric holder says maybe. still, the administration has not yet stopped all deportations. >> if she had to leave -- it's still really hard for me to think of that, even though the whole past year, every season was oh, god, this is the last season, oh, this is our last thanksgiving, oh, this is the last birthday. >> reporter: with time running out, takako is packing for