tv CNN Newsroom CNN July 3, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
and never think ahead. and she's going, oh, we can beat this team. we can beat that team. i'm like, karen, i don't want to talk about it. she's saying, i'll telling you. we can win this. you've been here one year so you're really a veteran. she said i know we can and she was right. karen was right. >> a real pleasure. lovely to meet you. >> billie jean king. what a legend she is. closing arguments are nearly done. hours from now, jurors could begin deliberating casey anthony's fate. she stands accused of killing her 2-year-old daughter caylee in 2008. for the past six weeks, much of the country has been fixated on every aspect of her trial. each day has brought strange twists and unexpected turns and today was no exception. even before the defense could finish its closing argument, the courtroom drama suddenly turned personal between rival lawyers. judge belvin perry yanked both member from the courtroom. he then issue ad stern warning
and any more inappropriate behavior, they will be thrown off the case. our panel, holly hughes. in orlando, jane velez-mitchell, host of hln's "issues." drew with wdbo radio and martin savidge. david mattingly is here as well. and we'll start with you. both sides want to win. each told jurors the other side's case was flawed, weak, and full of holes. they can't both be right. what happened today, david? >> reporter: about the only thing these two have in common, they both need an ending and we're very close to getting one right now. the prosecution in the closing arguments telling the jury that casey was a mother who was unhappy with her life. and that she wanted freedom. she wanted to have fun. and she was willing to sacrifice her daughter to get it. there were some very powerful moments as prosecutor jeff
ashton pushed that point home and here one of them. >> she took her child. she took her life. and she put her in the trunk and forgot about her. after a couple days she couldn't forget anymore. she disposed of her body in a swamp. these are the facts that you have heard. and these are the facts that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that casey anthony is guilty of murder in the first degree. now the defense also going before the jury with their closing arguments, pointing out this is a circumstantial case. no cause of death. no dna. no fingerprints. putting some holes in a lot of the expert testimony that we've heard over the past weeks. but the point they're trying to make here is that they don't
have to prove anything. they just to have make sure the jury knows that there is room here for reasonable doubt. listen. >> you see, the strategy behind that is, if you hate her, if you think she is a lying no good slut, then you'll start to look at this evidence in a different light. you'll start to, oh, wait a minute. maybe i'm seeing something that's not there. and start to actually discriminate against her, rather than give her the standard that is afforded to each and every citizen in our country. and that is the state, the government come in and proves their case beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt. you can get away with that if we can get a jury to hate her. >> reporter: defense attorney jose baez reminding the jury that they need to take emotion out of this, possibly easier
said than done in this very emotional case. >> i was watching earlier today, right after the lunch break. there was some very high tension in the courtroom. today it really turned personal. the judge was not amused by it. tell our viewers what happened. >> reporter: well, what happened, jose baez was in front of the jury and he was making a very strong point. getting very passionate about pointing out how it was casey's father who was in possession of the duct tape in this case. not casey. and as he was making that point, he he looked over and saw prosecutor jeff ashton smiling while this was going on. well, at that point he stopped, looked at him and called him "laughing man." the judge immediately called an end to things. here is how it played out. >> we're not talking about fantasy forensics anymore. we're talking about cold, hard evidence. evidence that points to one person. one person only. and he can get up here and lie ail wants and dance around the truth, but the truth is the truth and depending on who is
asking the questions, whether it is this laughing guy right here or whether -- >> objection. >> sustained. approach the bench. >> that was it. after the laughing guy comment, the judge called them both over and came out later and said, if anything like that happens again on either side, i'm going to throw the person out who does it. a very stern warning. very late here in the game. >> he was very serious. the jury was expected to have the case by now, david. so what's the time line for tomorrow? >> reporter: well, they're not done with the closing arguments yet. the prosecution could have a couple hours tomorrow morning to finish up what they need to do. then the judge has to read the jury the rules that they have to follow while they're considering the evidence and deciding what to do in this case. so it could be tomorrow afternoon, possibly. before the jury actually starts deliberating. but as we've seen, every single day something new comes up to delay that process. we'll just wait and see what happens tomorrow.
>> all right. thank you very much. stick around. you'll be with us for the entire hour because we are just getting started here tonight with our cnn newsroom special report on the casey anthony trial. and coming up, we'll be joined by cnn's martin savidge in orlando. jane velez-mitchell from "issues" on hln. sue from orlando. and holly hughes, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor joins me here in atlanta. we'll go over today's closing arguments, plus more sound from the courtroom today. more dramatic moments if you want to weigh in on this story. check us out on twitter, facebook. cnn.com/don. a lot of the video is there and also on foursquare. if you want to see how we cover stories, check out transparent. available anywhere books are sold. our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans,
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my money. my choice. my meineke. the evidence in this case proves beyond any reasonable doubt that casey anthony decided on june 16th that something had to be sacrificed, that the conflict between the life that she wanted and the life that was thrust upon her was simply irreconcilable and something had to give. she chose to sacrifice her child. to live the life she wanted. she took her child. she took her life. and she put her in the trunk and
forgot about her. after a couple of days, she couldn't forget anymore. and she disposed of her body in a swamp. these are the facts that you have heard and these are the facts that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that casey anthony is guilty of murder in the first degree. and that that murder is premeditated. >> our panel tonight, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor holly hughes in atlanta. in orlando, jane velez-mitchell, host of hln's "issues." drew petrimoulx, cnn's martin savidge and david mattingly as well. jane, usually the antics are outside the courtroom with people fighting to get tickets and seats in the courtroom. that antics were there today. but barring that, the prosecution by most people's account did a masterful job despite the laughing and smiling and the judge having to stop for a while.
>> well, the prosecutor finally got, don, to motive after this whole trial that has gone on six weeks or so. we finally understood the deeper why of why prosecutors believe that casey murdered, planned and carried out the murder of her child. this was a first time we're really hearing this in depth. the prosecutor was really brilliant in how he outlined casey's mental state. and how her lies, her claims that she had a job and she had a nanny were wearing thin with her parents. her parents were becoming increasingly suspicious. she wanted to go out partying more but she had this child that she had to lug around 24/7. and the child is getting older. the child is about to turn 3. a time when she starts to get more verbal and she might be
able to reveal to grandma and grandpa. the road was getting narrower for casey, prosecutors very convincingly describe how she is left with a choice. her lifestyle, her partying, or her kid. >> former prosecutor holly hughes. did it work? >> it absolutely worked. very effective. jane is right. we don't have to prove motive as a prosecutor but the jury wants to know. they're people. it is common sense. we're going to sit up there and present all this evidence. we're going to make the argument that this is first-degree murder. and the jury is sitting there going, but why? why now? and jeff ashton is so good at what he does, don. he just went right to the heart of the matter. he said here's the evidence we have and here's why now. everybody kept saying, she was a loving mother and why would she do this? because now little caylee is starting to talk. she is going to say, no zanny no, zanny and all of a sudden casey's lies are going to explode in her face. >> david mattingly, the jury is getting restless. this is taking quite a long time.
>> they were told it would be six to eight weeks and here we are in the sixth week. this probably shouldn't be coming as a surprise to them. but yes, this is their second big holiday weekend that they're missing. they are not from here. they're from another county. they're being sequestered. they're living in a hotel. they're shuttled from the hotel to the courtroom every day so they want their lives back, i'm sure. and they have had to sit through a lot. 33 straight days of testimony. scores of witnesses. they've got to be ready to sit there and start to think about who is really responsible for caylee anthony's death. >> drew petrimoulx, let's talk closing arguments. to everyone's account, this is taking a long time. the jurors were fidgeting and many might be saying, let's move on with this so we can get in there and hash it out and figure out what's going on. >> the defense really taking its time this afternoon. they started about halfway through the morning and went the rest of the day.
the prosecution initially only went about 77 minutes but they'll pick back up in the morning so they'll have more time to go as well. then we have to go through the jury instructions which could take a while as the judge explains how they consider the law and assess the seven charges casey faces. >> i'm going to let you in on this, mr. savidge. because listen. you've been covering this trial. you've been going in and out of it. you've had a chance to watch it like our viewers watch it and you've had a chance to be there, marty, as a reporter. and listen, this is taking a long time. the entire country is fixated on this story. do you think the jurors have an idea of what's going on and how much interest there is in this case? >> well, of course they see, or at least have some idea because of the tremendous amount of security that they see within the courtroom. they see the news media gathered. the seats are always filled every single day. that they see. are they watching it?
certainly they are not and they are in no way being expose the to the massive amount of reporting the rest of america is seeing. in a lot of ways, it is very clear cut that many people who watch this case at home may say, look, i know how it will go. you have to remember, the jury has not seen a fraction of everything that has been discussed, everything that the experts talk about, everything that we all sit and go over with the minutest of detail. the jury has not seen it that way. so too often we can read too much into what the jury knows and what we think they know or what they will render a verdict about. they have a lot of material they have to review. and quite frankly, i have to say that jose baez did a pretty good job today of raising and saying to this jury, look, there was this evidence, there was this evidence, there was this evidence. it is not as clear cut as many of us might think. >> and we always hear it in these cases, reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt and that's what it will hinge on. up next, more --
about to tell you isn't just that casey anthony lies. it is the pattern and the reason that she lies. that is important in this case. because what you'll see and what i'm going to tell you and what you've heard in this case is that when casey is faced with a problem, her solution is to change her lie. to modify it. casey is smart. casey is quick. it is absolutely amazing how nimble casey anthony's mind is and the ability to come up with an appropriate and believable lie in an instant. she is impressive. >> welcome back. that was prosecutor jeff ashton trying to convince jurors that casey anthony is a liar and a good one at that. my panel is back. i'll start with holly hughes. they're honing in, zeroing in on the lies. not only from casey anthony but also from her mother and her father and her brother and
because i would think, as an observer, there is not a smoking gun here so to speak. so they'll hone in on the lies and the distortions. >> right. this trial reminds me of the coffee. chock full of nuts. every single person who has gotten on the stand has lied about one thing or another. so both sides, the state and the defense to have address this issue. you can't hide from it. so what jeff ashton, the prosecutor is saying, she's crazy like a fox. there is a method to her madness. in fact, he went on to say in that little clip, every time she gets caught in a lie and it's not working, she change it up. he calls it casey 3.0. this is the latest version of the story. while the defense wants to say, oh, she's so crazy she's cuckoo for cocoa puffs, jeff ashton is saying, no, no no. there is a method. it is deliberate. it is intentional.
and just because you come from a dysfunctional family, it does not turn you into a murderer. there are tons of people from dysfunctional families who don't kill their children. >> jane velez-mitchell, what played higher? the duct tape? the smell in the car? what played higher for the prosecution today? >> they went through it all. first they did a psychological profile of casey anthony as this consummate liar complimenting her. how clever she is. then they ended with the forensics with all the thing that were found at the scene of the remain that they can connect to casey anthony or the anthony home. like the bedding, the duct tape, the hamper bag. the defense then spins that all and says guess what. who else had access to all those items? george, her dad, and essentially tried to put george on trial. and i do have do compliment the defense here.
there is a built in bias toward the proscoug. prosecution. you have to stay defense did a good job. it was at least four hours and they're not even done. and they basically wrote like a revisionist history book with charts and graph that's laid out all the evidence and 99% of the witnesses, including photographs, giving their version of events with calendars and everything. so i'm not saying anybody will believe the pool drowning, the accidental pool drowning, but they may have done enough to create reasonable doubt and puncture holes in premeditated murder. >> it was supposed to be a witness for the defense. the prosecution even said that george anthony lied. he lied about an affair. he lied about burying the dog and the plastic and the tape. and he said the wife lied. she lied about the chloroform, she lied about the search. sometime you're wondering, whose side is fighting for what? the prosecution or the defense? sometimes it seems like they're arguing the same thing. they're on the same side. >> it was very interesting to see what the defense did with
that whole chloroform issue today. finally admitting that it was casey that in fact did those searches, according to the defense, after she saw a posting on her boyfriend's myspace then using the fact that cindy anthony lied about it against the prosecution's case saying you can't trust anything that cindy anthony says. but she'll to go such extremes, even when they know that they can go back and get the work records, lying on the stand in this trial. basically using that against the state's case. i don't know if that was planned or if they just fell into that. it definitely worked out for the defense. >> stick around. he have one on the panel will be heard from. next we look at the defense. what jose baez is trying to give the jurors reasonable doubt. >> these are a significant amount of people from various backgrounds who have no interest in helping casey anthony. and that's why you need to consider this. and that's why you may have a reasonable doubt as to who smelled what.
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that's why you have more questions than answers. that's why. situations like fantasy searches, fantasy forensics, phantom stickers, phantom stains. all of this nonsense. and no real hard evidence. no dna. no fingerprints. nothing. but she is a liar and a slut. convict her on that. she lied. she didn't act the way she needs to. she made some stupid decisions. let's make her pay with her life.
that's what this case is about. an accident that snow balled out of control and it is out of control. it is out of control right now and it has been out of control since the moment this trial began. since the moment this case began. it is out of control. >> it sounds like casey anthony's lawyer is turning on her but jose baez used sarcasm to make his point. his client may not be likable but she is also not guilty. see how our panel views this. straight to david mattingly. he does have a point. this will hinge on evidence and probably it may come into play that she lied. here's what he said. he said lies are what lives within this family. baez that, according to someone who is in the courtroom. casey anthony was raised that casey anthony was raised that
way. raised to lie. is it a surprise that she lived in a fantasy world? so is this reverse psychology? >> the defense really set out a tough road for themselves when in the opening remarks, when he laid out the idea that casey had been the victim of sexual abuse at the hands of her father and her brother while they were growing up. that she learned to lie and learned how to pretend nothing was wrong. that's what contributed to her strange behavior when her daughter apparently was missing. when we're finding out in the closing arguments, he is using that to show that they really don't have to prove any of that was going on. but they are showing that the prosecution and the investigation in this case was focusing completely on her and not looking at any of these other possible scenarios that they've brought up throughout this trial. he is trying to show that they were going into this with tunnel vision. going after her and doing everything they could to get her and find something that would show that she was guilty instead of what he describes as finding the truth.
now again, the defense doesn't to have prove anything here. all they have to do is convince the jury that there are big enough holes here for them to see reasonable doubt. >> reasonable doubt. >> in their conclusions. >> i want to bring in cnn's martin savidge. baez also said reasonable doubt lives here. it is throughout the case. he is bringing his point home, isn't he? >> he is. and all he has to do is get one juror to go along with that and buy the reasonable doubt. i think the case is much more difficult for the prosecution here if they want to show premeditation and they want to go for murder in the first degree. i'm not sure that all of those jurors are going to go along with that. there could be. of them but they need all of them to go along with it. you can have one holdout and that changes the perspective of getting a capital murder conviction.
i think jose baez of course, knows this. so over and over and over. the biggest thing he pointed out, no one will ever be able to tell you how caylee died. that's very true. that can stick in the minds of at least one or two jurors here. if that is the case, then i think that it is easier for him to get some to think about doubt than it for the prosecution to get them all to agree with the idea of say, capital murder. >> okay. first-degree murder. did you say capital murder. might this be reduced? if there is not enough hard evidence and the jurors can't really agree on first-degree murder, can it be reduced to aggravated manslaughter? >> absolutely. they're what we call lesser includeds. if you don't buy the top count of the indictment, you can look of the indictment, you can look say there wasn't premeditation. there wasn't intent. she did not set out to deliberately murder her child but she did something that was so egregious, it ended in death and she should have known that. so therefore you can get a
lesser included. and it could be a compromised verdict at this point. it could be six of them get in there and say, absolutely first degree. the other six say we don't think she did it. we think maybe it was an accident. she overchloroformed the baby by mistake and you could get a compromised verdict. jane, we'll get to you. you've been covering this, these story long enough to say, to know not to predict what a jury is going to do. quickly here, do you see that happening when there is so much passion from both sides in this case? >> well, i do see, if you talk to a lot of people on the street they say i think it was an accident. not a pool drowning. that she accidentally overdosed her on chloroform because she wanted to party. that would be a dangerous act by a depraved mind with no regard for human life and that is definition of second degree murder which would get her up to 30 years. an average of 22 years in the state of florida. so that i think that is something that could come down. that would be perceived of perhaps as a victory for the defense. anything that doesn't result in the death penalty. there are a lot of nuances here. not just guilty or innocence.
>> thank you very much. we'll talk to all. our panel about what their predictions are if they care to share them when it come to the casey anthony trial. more on the defense's closing arguments just ahead. plus some fireworks in the courtroom. but first, the reason we're trying to get through this so quickly, we have breaking news to tell but a shooting in downtown memphis in a very crowded tourist area. a police officer has been shot and killed and we're monitoring our affiliate there and we'll take through live next. ay that ? [ female announcer ] feel fresh up to 5 times longer with scope outlast. still feeling fresh? oh, yeah. [ female announcer ] what will you outlast? we believe doing the right thing never goes unnoticed. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?
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this is the breaking news we were talking about. it is from memphis, tennessee. it is from our affiliate wmc. you see the police officers and flashing lights on the scene. we're being told a tennessee police officer has been shot tonight. really in the heart of downtown memphis. our affiliate wmc tv reports the officer has died. and police are telling cnn shots were fired after officers responded to a shooting call at the double tree hotel. a shooting call at the double tree hotel. this hotel if you know the area, it is in a very crowded minor league baseball stadium where the fourth of july fireworks show was planned after tonight's game. the double tree is across the street from the famous peabody hotel.
police say a suspect is in custody. these are live pictures? are these live picture? this is our affiliate wmc is reporting this tonight. this is at the double tree hotel. it is across the street. everyone knows the famous peabody hotel. it did not happen there but in that area. we'll continue to follow this breaking news for you cnn and bring you the very latest. here is what we know. a police officer shot tonight in downtown memphis, and according to you are a affiliate, the officer has died. details coming up. also tonight, up next, more of our coverage of the casey anthony trial. now we focus on the case presented by the defense. >> we're not talking about fantasy forensics anymore. we're talking about cold, hard evidence. followed by 1 of 7 delicious entrees
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things are not adding up thing just don't make sense. it is so difficult for to you find the truth if it is difficult for to you find the truth, then this case is not proven. there is reasonable doubt. and remember when i told you about this case in the very beginning. reasonable doubt lives here. it is throughout the case. it is right here. it is with these individuals.
it is with those individuals. it is everywhere. you can't trust this evidence. you can't. >> that's casey anthony's defense attorney, jose baez, trying to raise questions and reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors. i want to welcome you back to the special report on the casey anthony murder trial. our panel is still with us. holly hughes is with us in atlanta. drew, to you. reasonable doubt lives here. that's what resonated when you think about jose baez and his arguments today. i want to know, what happened to chloroform? all of a sudden chloroform gave way to duct tape now. >> throughout this case the prosecution has been inferring both of them could have been the murder weapon, saying it could have been the duct tape. talking a lot about the searches and the high levels of chloroform were high in that car
but today they honed in on the duct tape as the murder weapon. the first piece over the how that, the third piece over the nose. the third piece to plug it up so there was no possibility of caylee breathing. chloroform was only mentioned once by the prosecutor saying one could only hope that chloroform was administered before the duct tape so she didn't suffer. >> but let's stick with the defense. because you would think the defense would not bring up the duct tape but he is. baez is doing it and using george anthony as the scape goat. her own father. >> they have no problem throwing any and everybody under the bus. it is a sherman tank. anybody but casey, anybody but casey, anybody but casey. that's what we've seen consistently in this defense case. and that's what they're there for. the they are there to raise that reasonable doubt. >> george anthony is the only one who had access to the duct tape. >> that's what he's claiming.
he is saying somehow george was the only one because when the police executed a search warrant at the anthony house, that duct tape was not there. how, later on, george is seen in a video taping up missing posters with that roll of duct tape. they're saying it was in his custody and control. and like jose baez said in his opening, follow the duct tape. what he is saying is that will lead you to the conclusion that george anthony disposed of this body and my client didn't know anything about it. >> baez also returned to this accidental drowning defense as well. he said it was a reasonable hypothesis of innocence here. duct tape and it is the accidental drowning that baez is trying to use. in doing this, is he throwing george anthony under the bus as well? >> he certainly is. is he is blaming everybody he can blame. it sounds to me like he is taking a page from johnnie cochran in the o.j. simpson closing arguments where johnny
went into this montra remarks if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. and jose baez's mantra is something is wrong here, something is wrong here. which by the way was borrowed from cindy anthony's 911 call when she says, something is wrong. it smells like a dead body in the damn car. he took that and turned it into this mantra. he has used words like a fraud. the state's case is a fraud. he has used words like shady. so he is pointing the finger of blame just like johnnie cochran did, the garbage in, garbage out saying this is shoddy police work. and he does have a point. according to the prosecution, there were 84 chloroform searches and they very convincingly argued, there was only one chloroform search. and there is also the question about why the residue of the heart shaped sticker, the outline disappeared from the duct tape when the prosecution was processing it. there are a number of thing that went wrong. he really went quite a distance and even accusing the police of lying. it is very much like that johnnie cochran closing.
>> lie all he wants and dance around the truth. the truth is the truth. depending on who is asking the question. whether it is this laughing guy right here or whether it is myself. >> up front. i am beginning to see that orders or anything else may not be -- it happens again, the remedy will be exclusion of that attorney from further participation in these proceeding. >> what you saw was an angry judge issues a stern judge issues a warning to the defense
attorney and the prosecutor. i want to welcome back my panel now. and go straight to martin savidge and drew petrimoulx. you're both there for this moment. tell us about it, starting with you, marty. >> it was a very powerful moment. jose baez was really on a roll. he had built up to this crescendo. and he was delivering a powerful point about george anthony. then, of course, you see what looks like very clearly the smirking case of the prosecution. and remember, he is right in front of jose baez. you may not see him in the shot but he is right in his face. and jose simply had enough and he blew up. the problem with it is, not only the anger of the judge severely, and they both could get into real trouble, but the problem is that he also threw off the momentum of his own delivery. everything ground to a halt immediately after that. >> and these guys have been at each other's -- they've been at each other's throats for three years now. it seems like they have been going at it since the case started.
the judge issued an order saying they have to cut the side talk. not only have we seen it in the past in the pretrial hearing but even in this trial. even when they're not, when the actual court is in session they're bickering over signs and trying to get things set up. i think they genuinely don't like each other. >> hadn't they been warned before? hadn't they been warned before? to jane velez-mitchell. let's talk about the elephant in the room. casey didn't testify. how will that weigh in on the minds of the jury? >> it is not supposed to weigh at all. they're supposed to ignore it. that is not supposed to influence their decision. obviously her standing there, sitting there, crying there, walking in and out, and the fact that she is not opening her mouth to explain all these allegations, throwing her own dad under the bus, her own brother under the bus, and of course, they were not allowed to talk about molestation. the defense. so that was sort of another elephant in the room today. where the jurors are aware that
she is accused her father of this heinous act and accused her brother of this heinous act, and they're not hearing anything about it in closing arguments because the judge said, to jose baez, you have not offered a scintilla of proof that these acts occurred. therefore you won't be able to bring it into your closing argument. so there was a lot in the room that was lurking there. big issues that everybody had to dance around. it is true. >> another issue, david mattingly. cheney mason, a defense attorney there said in his closing arguments, he reminded the jury that they took an oath to rise above discrimination against the defendants. regardless of what they feel about her personally, they can't be swayed by personal feelings and it is evidence, evidence. even though she didn't take the stand as jane just talked about. >> that's right. the point he was trying to make
there also was that when they go into that room to deliberate, there is more involved here than just casey anthony. they have to uphold our system of justice. and there are rules about what they can consider and cannot consider. and what should weigh one way and what should weigh a different way. they are going to have to pay very close attention to the judge when he spells out the rules for what they're supposed to do and how they're supposed to go about reaching a decision. so that was the point he was trying to make. that this is about evidence. this is about the justice system. and it is not just about this one young woman that has been sitting there in front of them for the past 33 plus days. >> did he do a good job of making his point? >> no. i thought it was a little late in the day for a civics lesson and i think the jury was probably asleep by the time he got up there and started talking constitution. >> when we come back, our panel's final thought on the trial and how they think it will end up.
that you'll be presented with, how did she die? what happened to her? >> did the defense do its job? cast enough reasonable doubt? that jurors cannot convict casey anthony of murdering her 2-year-old daughter caylee? in these final minutes, let's get our panelists and their verdicts. let's start with holly hughes, the former prosecutor. they do their job. and we'll hear from the prosecution again. >> we are. absolutely. that's the beauty of being a prosecutor. a lot people said they didn't go on very long today. that's a strategic move. as a lawyer, save your very best stuff for last. you get to go first, defense has to go in the middle and then you get to tie it up last, don. what you get to do is you don't put all your good stuff out there and let the defense knock it down. you save it for when they get up afterwards. guilty, no death penalty. >> let's to go jane velez-mitchell. what do you have for your closing thoughts? >> i thinks it bizarre that
they'll start their deliberations on the fourth of july. i think expect fireworks inside that jury room. and i'm not making predictions. you cannot predict what will happen in this trial from one minute to the next. how the heck will we predict how 12 people will decide? >> david mattingly? >> jane is right. no two juries are alike. the last time i covered a high circumstantial case like this was the scott peterson trial. what caused problems for him was the lies that he told and the strange behavior when his wife was missing. that opened the door for him to the death penalty. we'll to have wait and see what this jury finds important and what they're going to do with it. >> talk to me about a rebuttal. i know you want to that he about it, drew petrimoulx. >> i was watching prosecutors prepare today. look for them to go back to those jail house videos where casey anthony is telling her father that he is a great dad. she dismisses the pool drowning theory.
and one more thing, food for thought. three years ago tomorrow, casey anthony was at a fire work show right over our shoulder. >> and martin savidge who is right there with you. martin, you've covered these cases. just as drew has and also david mattingly. david said the last time he david said the last time he saw anything like this was scott peterson. what is your assessment? >> i agree with what has been said. you can't predict what the jury will do. i will say this has been a very attentive jury. both the prosecution and the he was the went out of their way to say how remarkable this jury has been. always attentive, always taking notes, very much focused on what is being said in the courtroom. i don't think they'll rush just because it is the fourth of july and they have away from their families a long time them take their job seriously. >> i want to bring this home for the two ladies here. not that guys can't answer this. but there is a little girl who
died in all of this. or who was murdered. and then jane, i'm going to talk to you about it as well. >> i think what we'll see is linda drane burdick. she stood up in the beginning of this trial. it seem like 100 years ago. it was six weeks ago. what she said is this is not about casey anthony. now is the time to tell the story of caylee marie anthony. and i think that is what we're going to see tomorrow. we're going to see her circling all the way back around. coming home and saying, this is about the baby and justice for her. >> and jane velez-mitchell. i am hearing that women, mostly women. the men are interested as well. they are dvr'ing this. they are watching it when they get home because of the mother instinct. most people cannot fathom a mother killing her own child. >> let's hope it is a cautionary story about the dangers of getting pregnant when you're a teenager. you don't have the maturity and the finances to properly care for a child and this is happening all over america. teenagers having children.
under the wrong circumstances. and we as a society really need to address it. >> jane velez-mitchell. drew petrimoulx, prosecutor holly hughes here in atlanta, martin savidge and david mattingly. thank you for joining us. a fascinating hour. i'm sure everyone will be glued to the television tomorrow and i want you to remember to watch our sister network hln for the coverage of the casey anthony trial. and you can watch jane, "issues" every night. and a quick update on some breaking news we reported to you earlier. reports coming out of memphis, tennessee. where a police officer has been shot and right in the heart of downtown. our affiliate wmc tv reports that the officer has died. police tell us that shots were fired after officers responded to reports of shooting, of a shooting at the doubletree hotel. the doubletree is across the street from the world famous peabody hotel. it happened across the street.
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