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tv   John King USA  CNN  November 7, 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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if it's the right thing. who else is in town? prime minister berlusconi. so good luck getting a hooker. >> reporter: even when he gets tripped up -- he still manages to land on his feet. jeanne moos, cnn. >> that's it for me. thanks for watching. the news continues next on cnn. good evening. tonight michael jackson's personal physician faces prison time. guilty, a jury says, of contributing to the king of pop's 2009 death. >> we the jury in the above entitled action find the defendant conrad robert murray guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter. in violation of penal code section 192 subsection b. alleged victim, michael joseph jackson. >> as you can sigh, there he sat
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stoically as the verdict was refld he was then handcuffed. they denied his request for bail pending sentencing. >> dr. murray is remanded to the custody of the los angeles sheriff with no bail. and in the interim, he is to be kept in the care and custody of the sheriff. >> also tonight, a chicago woman accuses republican presidential candidate herman cain of an unwanted sexual advance. sharon said she came to washington to ask cain for help finding a job. she said he first shock her by upgrading her hotel room to a suite and then she says, he shocked her again. >> he suddenly reached over and he put his hand on my leg. under my skirt and reached for my genitals. he also grabbed my head and brought it toward his crotch. >> bialek said she wants just one thing from mr. cain. >> to come clean. just admit what you did. admit you were inappropriate to
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people. >> the cain campaign said it never happened but the statement tonight does not answer whether cain knows bialek or whether he was with her on the night in question. he remains the front-runner but tonight the new numbers stug mounting allegations are taking a toll. more on that breaking news in a moment. first the very latest on the day's other big crime and punish many drama. the verdict against dr. conrad murray. the jury of seven men and five women deliberated for nine hours, capping 23-day trial. murray now faces up to four years in prison and a loss of his medical license. now that he has been convicted of involuntary manslaughter. the prosecution case that murray caused jackson's death by recklessly and repeatedly giving the entertainter surgical anesthetic propofol for treating insomnia. there was a large crowd outside the courtroom. most of them jackson fans who greeted the verdict with cheers and applause. was justice served?
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ted rowlands was outside the courthouse. two days of deliberation, a pretty quick verdict. a surprise to anybody? >> reporter: well, no. because of the timing, john. the fact that this jury wasn't out three, four, five days and they came to a unanimous decision i think most people figured that there would be a guilty verdict. of course, you never know until you hear it. however, it seemed as though the defense team was ready for this. it seemed as though dr. conrad murray was ready for it. when they put him in handcuffs, he got out and was heading out. he turned and looked at his mother, he looked at his daughter who was crying on the second row on the defense side. and he sort of gave them a knowing nod as if to say, it will be okay. his girlfriend nicole valley res who testified in this trial and has a child with conrad murray said i love you. as for the jacksons, there was an audible reaction from la toya jackson and/or kathy hilton who were sitting together. but for the most part, the jacksons were somber.
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they did however exchange hugs after the jury left the room with david walgren, the lead prosecutor who did an outstanding job in this case. mrs. jackson stopped and hugged the prosecutor before she left the courtroom. murray now has been taken to the l.a. county jail. he will be there until he is sentenced. on the 29th of this month. >> and watching that at the very end as the judge was wrapping up the proceedings, it was interesting to watch the deputies handcuff dr. murray while he was still seated in the chair. normally they wait for him to stand up as the proceedings are ending. back on the 29th, sentencing then. that is the issue, right? he faces up to four years in prison. are there any other questions to be answered between now and that next court appearance? >> reporter: the big question is the state of southern california broke. a lot of nonviolent offenders are getting light sentences because of that. and or are not going to state
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penitentiaries. so will this judge give them maximum four years and will he end up serving his time in a county jail? or go to the state pen? >> questions raised by ted rowlands. great job covering the trial. now joining us to ago little deeper, legal contributor for "in session." and sunny hostin. i start to start with you. what sealed it for the prosecution? >> it had to have been the pharmacy records. four gallons of propofol delivered to conrad murray's, not his clinic or a hospital but to conrad murray's girlfriend's house. and then of course, transferred over to michael jackson. it was the trail. i wrote this on the daily beast today. it was the trail that conrad murray left for himself that really was his undoing. those pharmacy records. his phone and e-mail records. that show he couldn't possibly have been paying attention to
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michael jackson those final few hours of his life. he was on the phone and he was sending e-mails on his imphone. >> let's follow up. i want to you listen to the testimony of the cardiologist who was part of the prosecution's case, making the case that number one, dr. murray was negligent for giving michael jackson the drug in the first place. then he goes on. >> if the patient michael jackson was able to administer to himself either lorazepam and or propofol without conrad murray's knowledge, doesn't that by necessity mean conrad murray was neglecting or abandoning the patient for that to happen without dr. murray's knowledge? >> yes, sir. i want to -- again, i didn't think i said this, but when you monitor a patient, you never leave their side. especially after giving propofol. >> stacey, the expert witnesses for the prosecution painted a pretty damming picture of dr.
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murray's behavior and his demeanor. >> absolutely. when you had dr. steinberg take the stand and then dr. schafer, they basically laid out the case themselves did not just saw it was one issue that substantially caused the death. they gave a litany for a number reasons why there was gross negligence. it wasn't just giving propofol. it was leaving. it was not having the proper devices. not having staff. not calling. so all of these issues led to the guilty verdict in this case. >> and sunny hostin, i want to you will have to another one of the expert witnesses providing what the prosecution, this methodical case to say he was a bad doctor to begin with. at the very end, incredibly negligent. >> it's your opinion that conrad murray will still be a direct cause of michael jackson's death, correct? >> yes. >> why is that? >> that's because he is a physician who has brought propofol into the room, started an intravenous and provided
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access to propofol, to a patient who may in fact be developing a dependency on sedatives. and he has been entrusted by michael jackson to look after his safety every night. he has failed that responsibility while enabling the administration of intravenous propofol. he is responsible for every drop of propofol in that room. >> sunny, in this case, we watch in these high profile cases, in this case they kept a pretty fair sxoe damning focus. >> they really tried this very leanly. they did not overcharge it. many say there was enough evidence to charge second-degree murder. and i think that is action raxt b , i think that was accurate but they went with manslaughter them did not have a fall back charge. so this could have been an acquittal. the jury had no other choice. i think the prosecution did a
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superb job of leanly trying this case. not overcharging it. focusing on conrad murray and the deviations from the standard of care. this really sounded in medical malpractice, a lot of those cases are very complicated. they're not user friendly. not so in this case. the prosecution team did a wonderful job of making the evidence very, very simple for this jury. and eighth ten-hour deliberation in a case like this is actually quite good. >> and one of the questions the prosecution team faced after the trial, they went at the trial them did face questions. should they have charged it up higher? should they have pressed ahead? do you think they could have made that case? >> i'm still a prosecutor. i supervise the unit in the state attorney's office. quite often, people want us to take it to a higher level. even in the casey anthony case. people said they overcharged, they overcharged them didn't in this case themselves analyzed evidence the. it wasn't when they came in and
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decided to willy-nilly go through. they analyzed. they looked out to see which would be the best charge to go in front of a jury with. certainly they could have made a case. it is implied, malice second-degree. and his actions could have said there was implied malice. but this was the way to go for a jury to understand, it was gross negligence and to point out all the issues that he was negligent. >> this is the state of california versus dr. conrad murray. the defense tried to make it conrad murray versus michael jackson. trying to make the case that michael jackson did this. that it was his behavior. he was the one who was an addict. he was having not only the propofol. where did the defense in your view fail? >> i think they had a no win case, honestly. the state of california led by jerry brown, their attorney general, has let it be known now that these doctors to whom the celebrities go while they're doctor shopping are not going to be allowed to get away with it anymore. david walgren is a perfect example of the perfect golden boy prosecutor. he didn't overcharge.
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he said let's get him on what we can get him on. and i think when david walgren looked at the jury and said, you know what? nobody long exactly what happened in that room between conrad murray and michael jackson. but the very fact is, that conrad murray brought in the propofol. he brought in the lore as pam, it wouldn't have been there unless he did it. the defense didn't, how can you argue with that? you can't. >> stay with us. before we go to break, several members of the jackson family and some of his friends spoke to jane velez-mitchell of our sister network as they left the room. >> justice was served. yes. it wasn't enough time though. >> what would you say -- >> michael is with us. michael is with us. >> tell us what you would say to america. >> just thank you so much. i'm just happy it's over with. nothing will bring him back but i'm happy he was found guilty.
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>> thank you, america. thank all the fans. thank the prosecuting team of i want to thank you. jane. i love you. >> what would you say to michael? >> i'm going to say something. michael loves everybody out here. we all love him. and guess what? he was in that courtroom and that's why victory was served. >> still to come, dr. sanjay gupta joins us. and here's quae. if michael jackson can pay $150,000 a month to get drugs whenever he wants, how many other doctors are there just like that in hollywood?
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fuggedaboud it. this is new york. hey little guy, wake up! aw, come off it mate! geico. saving people money on more than just car insurance. a los angeles jury convicts conrad murray of involuntary manslaughter. jackson died of an overdose of a powerful sedative called propofol which is used in operating rooms for anesthesia. witnesses claimed he obtained large quantities of drug. and they said even if jack injected himself know dr. murray should still be held responsible. >> he has been entrusted by michael jackson to look out for his safety every night. and he has failed that responsibility while enabling the administration of intravenous propofol.
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he is responsible for every droch propofol in that room. >> cnn medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta is with us now. also, the criminal defense attorney, and diane diamond, a special correspondent for "newsweek." she is the author of be careful hue love. i want to start with you. when you watched the prosecution lay out this methodical case saying number one, dr. murray is responsible. number two, even if michael jackson somehow injected himself, dr. murray is responsible. as a doctor, a member of the medical community, what went through your mind when you heard all the things dr. murray did. i would say crossing the line from caregiver definitively. the prosecution made its case to the jury, to killer. >> two years ago, this was so hard to hear for the members of the medical communicate. that propofol, a medication that most doctors who work in
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hospitals know and know quite well. that it could be thought to be used this way outside of a clinical setting inside someone's home. designed to give sleep. it was so strange. but very specifically, besides the fact they said this was something that most doctors would never do. they said here's why. because you need to have proper resuscitation on standby. you need proper monitoring equipment. you need to have someone always present. oxygen, all these thing there. thing that you find in a clinical setting in a hospital. they made the case and they explained why it was so problematic for propofol to be administered this way. >> and trent, you're a defense attorney. you've handled high profile cases. did the defense fail in some way or did this just, was this stack against them? >> stacked against them. from the very beginning, my suspicion was that the defense
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would probably at some point enter a plea. try to get a plea deal before this case found its sea legs. they really did not. going forward, i think what that for conrad murray really was arrogance got the best of him. i think arrogance got the best of him and his defense team at the very outset of the case. the bifggest part of the case ws the two-hour plus interview that he gave to law enforcement at the time he was arrested. he wasn't arrested. at the time that he was asked to give a statement and they nearly arrested him they didn't and he gave the statement and he went on and on. his lawyers allowed him to talk. endlessly over that period of time, he gave incriminating information that really ultimately led to the prosecution having some of their strongest pieces of evidence. >> those recordings were damning. that was evidence the if you will, laid out in a methodical way. then there was the emotion. all this happened. michael jackson's death when he was planning this big comeback
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show. the prosecution also entered this into evidence. >> the emotions there, the drugged out voice of michael
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jackson making the case that he wants this comeback show be the best in the world to prove he was the best in the world. from an emotional standpoint, i think it's pretty obvious. why was that important for the prosecution to get that in? >> the prosecution wanted the jurors to see that this is a doctor who said he wanted to try to help this person. he's in a drugged out state and he orders all that propofol. and look at the state of mind that this person is in. so this was very important for the prosecution. i think it was also very important for the prosecution to show consciousness of guilt in this case. without the outright confession, his omissions alone were as good as the confession was. the idea that he hid part of the drip. the idea that he never told anybody involved in this indication that might have been able to help that he gave michael jackson propofol. and i think that was huge for the jury to see and it showed consciousness of guilt on his part. but humanizing michael jackson,
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letting the jurors hear what he was really ball was huge for the prosecution. >> in one way it does humanize him but it is also pretty horrifying. in the idea that michael jackson is a grown man. a lot of this were his decisions. i'm not skewsing anything dr. murray did. when you hear what dr. murray did and then you their michael jackson. this is a bizarre world. >> it makes you wonder about that comeback tour. 50 concerts? it sounds like he could not even do one concert. i think the most important piece of evidence put in was that tape of michael jackson. because it was taken in may. early may. he didn't die until the end of june. this doctor, for some reason tape-recorded him and he knew what kind of shape he was in. he knew he was drug dependent or drug addicted. he knew his health was failing. and yet as walgren said, what did he do? he ordered more propofol and more benz over diazepine for michael jackson to die jefls i
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think trent is exactly right. that tape of murray plus this tape of michael jackson sealed the deal. conrad murray locked himself in early. i only gave him 25 milligrams of propofol and i was only gone for two minutes. the rest of the testimony proved that that just wasn't true. it just couldn't have been true. >> dr. gupta, is there a message to the medical community in this message? or is dr. murray so far out there, that there is nobody else throughout that needs to learn this lesson? >> a little of both. when i first heard this, i was talking to you. it was so bizarre that it was hard to fathom that someone would think of abusing propofol in this way outside a clinical setting. propofol isn't even considered a controlled substance. it is in hospitals and clinics will but the fact that people would take that medication and use it in the home. it seemed almost unimaginable to a lot of people not to say
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people haven't abused this drug in hospitals but not like this. there is also a message. it you've alluded to it already. about these doctors for hire. he's the hollywood doctors as they're being calledism interviewed some of them myself. they are plentiful in many cities across the country. what exactly is their obligation? what are they doing? and how do they not let things like this happen just because someone has resources or wealth will. >> thank you. he will stay with us and be with us in the next block. be sure to watch tonight at 11:00 eastern. for a special report, michael jackson, the final days. the postal service is critical to our economy--
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michael jackson's personal physician is in jail tonight and face up to four years in prison after facing involuntary manslaughter charges in the death of pop singer. the defense argued it was his own fault and contended dr. murray was trying to wean him away from it even though he helped jackson get that drug. for more on hollywood drug culture, we're joined by dr. drew pinsky. still with us, trent copeland. dr. drew, let me go to you first. how many dr. muirs are there out there? if dr. murray had said no, could
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michael jackson have found another? >> absolutely. not only could he have found another, he certainly could have found people as you hear with dr. klein giving him the demerol on a regular basis. found people to giving others. they get substandard care. those of us who provide care, it is the standard of careful every time somebody seeks anything special or out of standard, out of the ordinary, they're much more likely to get something substandard. the other issue is once say, dr. murray or any of the others in this town get ahold of somebody and realize they're in over their head with addiction issues, they need to assemble a team. that's where this went off the rail. these people were not consulting with the appropriate people that could have potentially saved michael jackson's life.
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>> you're an attorney in l.a. a defense attorney. your clients include some celebrities. here's ed chernoff trying to make his case. that essentially the wrong person was on trial. >> what they're really asking you to do is to convict dr. murray for the actions of michael jackson. >> of an, do you think that is a fair argument, and b, why blame dr. murray? this is available everywhere. >> i think that's right. the other part of that phrase in that closing statement was that conrad murray was just a small fish in a big dirty pond. and probably right. he probably was. and the truth is that there are a lot of doctor feelgoods in hollywood and a lot of doctors who will frankly give celebrities just about anything they want. the reality is we saw that in the anna nicole smith case. in that case the defendants, the doctors were found not guilty on all the most serious of charges.
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in this case it was the oms. i think that's where the prosecution learned its lesson. you go after these doctors and you go after them. not related to the issues associated with, their criminal it. you go after it associated with issues connected to the standard of care. that's where this doctor really, really found himself in hot water. the prosecution went after the standard of care. they found that there were 17 different egregious violations. and there was simply no way out. remember even their open defense witnesses. even their own expert witnesses came in and said, listen. no way that we can in any way account for this guy's conduct. bringing propofol in this setting, leaving the patient alone. not monitoring him. not having the appropriate rescue equipment. there's no way we can account for that. once that happened, the prosecution really had him in a corner and there wasn't anyway out for him. >> so doctor drew, how does the culture break down? these are trained medical professionals. is it greed?
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did they get caught up in celebrity? is it a zbhincombination? they would do things that they know are dangerous for the patient and b, a violation of the oath. >> before i answer your question, i want to say one thing about the defense's strategy of making it michael jackson's problem. i find it egregious of the defense to blame the patient. to blame the patient for the outcome. that is a very cautionary, i would caution anyone against that. when somebody has an addiction, the nonsense that they get into is part of their disease. it is incumbent upon to us bring them to proper recovery. in terms of -- >> but drew, does the patient have any responsibility? >> the patient has some responsibility. but i wouldn't expect the doctors to be leaving the medications that the patient is addicted to around the individual and leaving the room. i mean, it's a collaborative effort, to be sure. to be blaming the patient as the reason. i think that's a major, major problem. it really is.
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special when i the patient had not been given any of the thing he needed to get better. that's the other issue. one thing if the patient had been getting everything reasonable at the standard of care and then the patient misbehaved, okay. to blame the patient outright i think is a big mistake. >> i agree with you. but playing dell's advocate. here's where the defense might have made a mistake. that is, i think most people look at michael jackson. certainly a pop icon, his death was a tragic loss for everyone involved. no question about that. most people say, look. michael jackson had by all accounts a relatively odd life. and i think that the fact that he died in this way is not entirely, not entirely surprising. but i think some people would say, hey, look, this doctor was simfully last man standing. this doctor it was guy who was just there at the wrong time. michael jack had a series of doctors and series of people who were giving him the medication. >> i think you're right. so does this stop it in any way?
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>> is dr. murray going to jail, will the others doing this get the message? >> i think it serves notice. >> i didn't get a chance to answer. >> i think it will. in fact, it may go overboard. we play young people out there contemplating going into medicine who let's twice about it if they think, a misadventure will end me up in prison. not just a malpractice case. that's the unintended effect. the sbent intended effect will be people let's twice about going i know what a celebrity and not building team and consulting. >> thank you both very much for your insight. a fascinating case and i hope there's a lesson learned. next, hear what pennsylvania officials are saying about the sexual abuse scandal shocking penn state university's football program. plus, today's dramatic and explosive new developments in the presidential race. a fourth woman comes forward accusing herald cain of unwanted sexual advances. home menu orange chickenans women
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important developments today in the unfolding child abuse sex scandal of penn state university. two former officials were in court today. they face charge of perjury, covering up the alleged sexual abuse of young boys by a one-time assistant coach. that so much jerry sandusky was arrested saturday. he was the offensive coordinator for 23 years. now stands accused of assaulting
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eight boys. today pennsylvania's attorney general called on any other unidentified victims to step forward. she also was asked about the legendary penn state coach, joe paterno. >> he's been cooperative with the investigators in this case. he is not regarded as a target at this point. >> in other news, stocks closed higher even though investors remained jittery. up next, today's bombshell news. another woman accuses herman cain of unwanted sexual advances. and she is not anonymous. [ male announcer ] do you know how you will react
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>> erin burnett is coming up at the top of the hour. you're following the conrad murray verdict. >> that's right. we'll have joe jackson's lawyer who has been a friend of the flame for 25 years. i talked to the children of michael jackson today. we're going to hear from him. we're also going to talk about herman cain. of course, the press conference today was ritting. one thing that i was curious about, when the woman said that the night happened and she chose to not tell her boyfriend or her mentor ever, the exact details. is that something that helps or hurts her case. something that stood out to me. we'll be following that. tackling that angle of the story. did you know that 120 million americans live within 50 miles of a nauclear power plant?
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and erin brockovich will join us to talk about what's happening in the nuclear power plant zones. not something good. >> i bet it's not but i'm looking forward to it. we'll see you in a few minutes. as she noted, an important new chapter in the sexual misconduct question surrounding herman cain. a fourth woman claims inappropriate behavior by cain when he was head of the national restaurant association. the first three made their okayizations anonymously. but today sharon bialek became the first to step forward and speak publicly. >> at that time i had on a black meeted skirt, a suit jacket and a blouse. he had on a suit with his shirt open. instead of going into the offices, he suddenly reached over and he put his hand on my leg, under my skirt and reached for my genitals. he also grabbed my head and
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brought it toward his crotch. >> bialek said she had met cain previously twice at national restaurant association events back when he was the ceo and she had a job. she said she called mr. cain after losing that job to see if he might be able to help her feigned a new one. according to bialek, cain somehow envisioned a quid pro quo. >> mr. cain said, you want a job, right? i asked him to stop and he did. i asked him to take me back to my hotel which he did. right away. >> the cain campaign denies the unwanted sexual advance ever happened. in a statement, it ignores bialek in her very specific allegations. instead, the cain staxt questioned the motives of her attorney. quote. just as the country finally begins to refocus on our crippling $15 trillion national debt and the unacceptably high unemployment rate, now gloria allred is bringing forth more false accusations against the character of republican front runner herman cain. the statement goes on to say all allegations of harass many
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against mr. cain are completely false mr. cain has never harassed anyone. the political fallout for cain in a moment. first the legal issues at play and how bialek's account changes a drama that up to now was anchored on anonymous allegations. jeffrey tubin is with us tonight. as is joel bennett who says one of the people said cain harassed her when she worked with the restaurant association in the late 1990s. let me start with you. when you had read the statement last week about your client who says she was sexually harassed. you also made a reference to getting a phone call from somebody. do you believe it was this sharon bialek? >> it seems likely. the woman who called me a name was sharon. she lives in the chicago area and it seem unlikely there are two women in chicago who were had a hassed by herman cain. >> when you listened to her account today. you have been careful about it today. you say your client wants it kept that way, plus she signed a confidentiality agreement of
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sorts. what sharon describes is an unwanted sexual advance. is that what happened to your client or is what happened to your client in your view more of a repeated pattern of sexual harassment? >> my client alleged a repeated pattern. there were multiple incidents over multiple days. but my client has decided not to specify the incidents, although she did so in writing to the national restaurant association in july of 1999. >> when you watch this play out today, both the specificity of the allegation, the fact that she came forward and took the risk, if you will, of going forward with it. what went through your mind? >> it sound awfully believable to me. plus remember gloria allred the attorney brought forth two afts from krob rating witnesses who had spoken to miss bialek testimony incident. i don't know what happened, obviously. certainly that was a very credible presentation from someone who had no obvious axe to grind. she did not have a political motive. she is a republican.
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she is not out for money. why is she lying? if she is, it is very hard to fathom why. >> i want to you listen to gloria allred. you heard the cain campaign statement. neth perhaps politically it benefits to them to take shots at her celebrity attorney status. i want you to listen to one of the things she said before she introduced her client. >> at the suggestion of her boyfriend, a pediatrician, whom she had dated for four years, she reached out to mr. cain for help in finding another job. instead of receiving the help that she had hoped for, mr. cain instead decided to provide her with his idea of a stimulus package. which she will describe. >> a little bit of laughter in the room there. but i would call that a public relations miss tea gloria allred's part. if you're trying to make a case glens cain, why try to be cute?
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>> yes, gloria allred has been on tv a lot and i don't think it does anything to damage the credibility of the accusation that she has made. in fact, herman cain's people talking about gloria allred as if she's the story. she's been the story here. the story is this woman who has made this accusation and seemed to do so pretty creditably to me. >> and you spoke to your client today. she has decided not to come forward publicly. does this woman's decision, some would say courageous decision, the campaign campaign would disagree, of course. but does this affect your clinlt's calculation? >> my client has not advised me of any change in her opinion to date. >> not to date. what the she tell but what she saw? >> my client and i corresponded by e-mail before the conference but we haven't spoken since the conference. as far as i know, it does not change my client's position. >> do you have any
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recommendation to her based on what you saw today? or do you think it is best to stay out of the spotlight? or do you think if the cain campaign will continue to say, none of this ever happened, that a second woman in the public domain would help you make your case. >> first, we don't have a case to make. may client settled the matter with the restaurant association in 1999 shelf never brought a public complaint in 1999, although she could have. she chose to resolve it privately and confidentially. it is only because mr. cain responded once the matter was leaked by others that my client felt it was necessary to respond. she has no case to make and she froefrs maintain her private life and not back public figure. >> i just want to close with this. i want to get the sense that you agree with me since i'm not a legal expert. mr. bennett's client says repeated sexual harassment. when you heard sharon bialek, that's an unwanted sexual
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advance. that legally be sexual harassment? >> it is hard to know. there is the issue of mr. miss bialek as i understand it, was not still an employee of the restaurant association when it happened. so there are all sorts of legal issues that if this were to be a case, which it is clearly not. she has no interest in filing limitation has long run, i think you are talking semantics here. the issue is did herman cain do something that's really appalling. i think if you believe her, if you believe ms. bialek, the answer is yes. if you believe herman cain, the answer is no. >> appreciate your insight tonight. when we come back, jeff noted that the political arena, the political impact on the man who is the surprise of the gop race including some brand new poll numbers just outside suggesting these allegations are beginning to take a toll. [ indistinct talking on radio ]
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by a chicago woman named sharon bialek. once this kind of nonsense starts, mr. cain kept on saying, the media rules say you have to act in a certain way. i am well aware of these rules and i refuse to play by them. can he survive politically without answering any and all questions about his conduct while leading the national restaurant association? joining me now is eric erickson and dana lash. that's the question. i want to show you first nbc/"wall street journal" poll numbers out tonight that suggests it's beginning to have a harmful effect. here's the favorable results. 24%. he says media rules. he says media rules that we want him to speak out.
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it's not just we in the media. bill bennett, former education secretary and drug czar just posted this on if herman cain cannot stand up to these charges, if he refuses to, then he should step out of the race. a man big enough to run for president should be big enough to have a full and candid press conference on all of this. wants us to elect him president after all. he's asking us to trust our lives and the country's life to him. is bill bennett right? >> i think in this instance he is. that's been one of my criticisms of some conservative candidates. whenever you were charges like this regardless of whether it's legitimate and you have charges brought against you, you have to fight back. newt gingrich didn't do that. it had a hugely negative effect on his popularity. same thing with george w. bush. they didn't fight back against certain if they could call them smears. it would do a disservice to cain to run away from the issue and
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ignore it. regardless of whether the merits are legitimate, people are tired of the circus. that's what i heard all day from people who normally had favored cain and now they're just tire of the hoopla and they want it to end. >> they want it to end. i want to make this point. as a reporter and journalists and someone covering his seventh presidential campaign and asked questions of bill clinton during jennifer flowers saga, if you want the nuclear football, you have to answer questions about your behavior even if they're not true. he says it's the media. bill bennett is a cnn contributor. here's the governor of iowa. listen to what he says. >> i think it's important for him to directly and forthrightly address the issues that have been raised there. i think if he does that, he can put that behind him. i do think it's important -- i don't think you can just ignore it. >> tonight it seems like the cain campaign thinks it can push
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us away still. >> you know, i think the only one who really wants the story to be kept alive right now is justin bieber so we're not on the baby daddy controversy. reporters are tired of this. the cain campaign keeps digging the hole. why not go on "60 minutes" like bill clinton did after the jennifer flowers accusations. there's only one poll number that matters right now and that's women voters who will turn out huge in the republican caucuses in iowa and elsewhere and now at a ten-point disadvantage with women and that gap is going to grow unless he sits down and has some explanations for this. talking to my wife about this, we love herman but my wife is saying you can dismiss one or two but when you have four come forward, you got to answer some questions. >> dana, how much of a difference did it make that when the fourth came forward it was not unanimous and a woman on camera who came out with quite specific detail to describe what she says happened to her. >> i think it made a huge
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difference and whenever you have a face, a face, a voice, a real person behind the accusations, it makes a huge difference. and added to that, she says she's a republican. and to go even further, she's not just a republican, she's a tea party republican. at least what she says. now, that gives it a little bit -- it gives it a little bit more legitimacy her claim. it becomes a bigger problem because now you have someone that can get public sympathy so i think it does matter. >> do they listen to anybody outside of their tight inner circle? >> i'm not sure that they are listening. i get the sense that they are strongly in bunker mode right now. they were caught off guard. they say they had ten days. they expected more people to rally. then they through the accusation against perry which hurt them. i'm not sure the cain campaign really has firm grasp right now. i get the sense they are in denial. today in his point on press conference today, i was struck by a lot of e-mails that started floating and i was doing a radio


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