tv Your Money CNN November 13, 2011 12:00pm-1:00pm PST
uncertain. the crisis threatening it is on the other side of the world. welcome to "your money." i'm ali velshi. concerns over italy's soaring debt and borrowing costs this week are the latest chapter in the european crisis threatening the global economy and certainly the economic recovery in the united states. stephen moore, editorial writer "wall street journal," chrystia
freelander and assistant managing editor at "time." stephen, let's start with you. we know europe's debt crisis has a very direct impact on the u.s. economy. with europe's future still uncertain, how much influence do americans, does congress and president obama have on what's really happening around the world right now. >> not so much. look, a lot of people probably wondering how can a small country like greece and a bigger country like italy throw the entire globally economy into this turmoil. i think the answer to that is it's the first domino to fall. there's a real threat, you kind of get a contagion effect, if italy falls we're now seeing their interest rates rise on their bonds. this will affect other countries like portugal and spain and maybe france and germany. that's where the interconnection comes in. the united states, the banking system here is very interconnected with what's happening in europe.
>> let's explore the contagion for a minute with chrystia. if i get the flu shot and you get the flu i'm not getting it from you. the issue of contagion is based on the fact that other countries do not have the back stops or ability to prevent what's happening in greece or italy. is that what we're worried about, this could spread? >> yes, absolutely. it's worse than your flu shot analogy would suggest, ali. as it were, the european countries are all living in the same family and eating the same food from the same bowl. that is the euro. >> you're worried if it does get out of hand -- we don't know if we're there yet -- if it did get out of hand it would be greater on credit and capital flows than lehman brothers. >> absolutely. i interviewed george soros who knows about currencies and currency crises in europe right now, and he said this to me this could absolutely be worse than lehman. the truth is while we're still suffering the after affects of
lehman crisis, the rescue happened. the rescue worked. financial markets were restored. i think the nightmare scenario we're looking at in europe, what happens if there is a disorderly collapse of the euro, euro currency. the really scary thing is, that was a currency designed kind of like a roach motel. you can go in but never a system designed for countries to go out. that was on purpose. the architects of the euro wanted it to be the first step towards closer political union. so they didn't create an escape clause. there's no way to get divorced. yet right now, the members of the strong countries that stephen referred to, france and especially germany, they have to decide now, are they willing to pay up. >> they might be interested in a divorce. let's bring this into perspective. i still hear it after all the reporting all of us have done on this, i still hear people say how is greece, the 32nd largest economy in the world and not been central to these kind of
affairs in over 2,000 years, how is it that important and why is italy -- obviously we get why italy is more important. let's have the argument one more time. >> i think greece was important not economically in the absolute sense but because of underlying these incredible european problems in the european union. greece showed it was not a proper political union but a selfish economic union. when times got tough people weren't willing to come together to back each other up. you saw these differences between the rich countries and poor countries and hardworking germans and spend thrift greeks, generalizations but meaningful. italy is an entirely different story. italy is the third largest bond, i spoke to the head of pemco this week, the world's largest bond trader and agrees with george soros, italy can be worse than lehman. that's a big deal. >> you call it the most dangerous economy in the world. >> can i bring this back to the root cause. as i read so many stories about this, what's the big problem in europe. in my opinion they have built up
these incredibly large overly generous entitlement programs they are incapable of reining back in. >> in a vacuum, that would be fine. let me just introduce this. i'm getting this from you. in a vacuum that would be fine. we don't live in a vacuum. we here in the united states think we're not competitive with asia. europe is less competitive. >> you know what, that's the big problem for europe right now. i'm going to get hate mail for saying this, europeans are lazy and asians are eating their lunch. >> i would like to push back against stephen's analysis. >> okay. >> actually, germany, which has very generous entitlement programs is incredibly productive, a much more successful exporter than the u.s. actually much more successful export economy than china. >> we'll see. >> sweden, another country which has very generous entitlements is not suffering a crisis. the countries in europe which have slashed their government spending, drastically, countries like ireland, actually have not
have the markets say hurrah -- the markets have said they're chilling your economy. hang on. the final point. the real crisis is not at moment a structural one. it is that countries are issuing debt in a currency they don't control. if you control the printing press -- >> i don't agree with that. >> you're never going to have a sovereign debt crisis. >> this is an interesting -- >> it's the fact that they can't control their spending and there's no hope of controlling their spending. >> i think there's a lot of similarity between the problems on both sides of the atlantic. you've got rich countries in debt and they still have to grow. that's pretty impossible. >> however, let's go back to the people coming out of the woodwork now saying ten years ago i warned you or five years ago i warned you about the euro. i probably -- i'm going to put it out here, i don't know that the euro was a problem, but they didn't create a super structure. you said the problem is there's no divorce mec sism. they never built a house. they created common currency, then didn't come up with a way -- you get pronouncements
from the eu but nobody has the power to do anything. >> no hank paulson of europe. >> no ben bernanke. right. in order to have a currency that works, you need to have a central bank which is the creditor of last resort. >> but also the problem -- >> what we are finding in europe is, the ecb is not allowed to do that. that's their big question. this crisis could end tomorrow if the germans and french agreed that the ecb could provide unlimited backstop. >> but they tonight want to do that. >> but they would have to get over -- >> of course. that's why i'm saying it's fundamentally a political crisis. >> rana after greece, italy, it can go back to portugal and spain, keep buzzing around. nobody wants to bail anybody else's bank's out. here in america we don't want to bail our own banks out. >> absolutely not. i think going back to the point why not let the ecb print money. well that goes to deep european fears about hyperinflation.
there's really deep sort of psychological stuff going on here that's hindering any kind of rescue efforts. >> introduce one other thing. if you are greek and you have been under this austerity program for sometime already, all these european countries have been cutting back, your economy is already recessionary, if not close to it in many places in europe. now you're asked to do more to save bankers in another country or investors in another country. this is unappealing for everybody involved. what they have to do is not appealing. >> you have the greeks running a primary -- greek actually now -- not today. greece today is on the verge of running a primary surplus. that is, if greece defaulted on its debts, were not going to pay, their current budget on the verge of surplus. that's why you're starting to hear some greeks say let's forget about europe, let's just -- >> italy is at the forefront of the problem with italy partly demographic, huge entitlement programs. you know what the birth rate is 1.2 per married couple. they have all these people retiring and no kids. >> nobody to pay taxes on them. >> rana, chrystia, stephen say
where you are. normally mild mannered tim geithner came out swinging at republicans this week in an exclusive interview with cnn. stephen moore will get his chance to swing back next on "your money." stay with us. personal service, personal service, 5-year price lock guarantees and consistently fast speeds. ♪
this was a week in the united states where a lot of the political discourse was focused on anything but economic issues, whether it was rick perry's memory lapse or continued accusations of sexual harassment against herman cain. chrystia, is there a chance, and i'm hoping not despite everything else, is there a chance this election could turn on things that are not economic, even though for three years now the voters of america have said the economy is their number one concern. we are spending a lot of time on things not about the economy. >> yeah, but it's 2011, not 2012. i think that when when push comes to shove, people are going to focus on what really matters. i have a lot of faith in american voters. look, i think these other issues, they are easier to think about.
they are more fun. they also are less scary, actually, they are about other people making mistakes. >> when i said to folks at g-20, i said herman cain, fascinating though he is and his story can't wreck the world, greece could. >> talking about euro bonds and how the ecb should average, esf. this is not that fun. >> you know, stephen, you conservatives take some of the credit or blame for making this such a big issue, making americans understand the economy and debt and things like that are serious. you conservatives are derailing the conversation with everything going on this week. >> we're not responsible. >> it's your presidential candidates who are diverting the conversation. i mean, as a conservative, who in the republican race is keeping this conversation as focused as they should be? whether you agree with them idea ideologically or not, i feel like it's huntsman or gingrich, romney we haven't heard a lot from. >> there's no question the last week or two have been bad for
republicans because all the talk has been about herman cain's sexual harassment allegations when they want to talk about the economy. tax reform and so on. look, this is a celebrity culture. it's amazing to me 90% people know who joe paterno is than ben bernanke. this is part the problem. you turn on tv, nobody is talking about the economy right now, they're talking about herman cain's sexual harassment allegations, joe paterno. it's too bad we should be focused like a laser beam. >> i'm hoping chrystia is right. it's 2011 we have some time to go. in an exclusive interview with cnn's white house correspondent jessica yellin, treasury secretary tim geithner came out swinging. against republicans. listen. >> unless congress and republicans are willing to do more things for the economy now, unemployment will stay too high, won't come down fast enough, growth will be weaker. that's not a political statement just basic reality. >> stephen, have republicans reached a point where they have
more it gain in november of 2011, by stalling, by not having this economy improve dramatically in the last year so they win the election. >> certainly. i mean a weak economy is going to help republicans win the white house. but i think that's an unfair allegation. what's the big thing going on in washington right now? it's the super committee. guess who is not represented at the table there, who wants the super committee to fail? that's barack obama. the reason he does, he wants this narrative for the election season that the republican congress is -- >> isn't that too dangerous? isn't that too dangerous? >> i think it's dangerous. >> you believe the president wants the risk of these automatic cuts that come in that will cripple this economy. >> look, the republicans i've talked to on the committee, and even some of the democrats, say obama has not been represented. he has no interest in seeing this succeed. >> chrystia, what do you think? >> i don't agree. i think it's very clear what's going on right now. stephen is right, the republicans don't have an interest in the economy getting better.
i don't think we -- >> i didn't say that. >> right now. right now. we shouldn't blame them for that. politics is an oppositional race. i think it's perfectly fair and justified to say we don't believe in your policies and we're not going to help you execute them. that's not their job. >> the danger is everybody gets sprayed by the same skunk. if this economy gets worse they're all going to smell exactly the same. >> i don't think everything happened in a super committee and i don't expect it to happen there. it's all about jobs, the economy. it will continue to be. that's why europe matters. if europe goes into recession, will that push u.s. into a recession. that's why occupy wall street matters. it's about jobs, it's about the american dream, feeling you can do better than your parents. that will be the focus. >> the gridlock is dangerous for both sides. what you could have in november 2012 is throw all the bums out. >> every bum out. >> except someone does have to win. ultimately there will be someone who is the president. >> that's true. >> it's not a case where everybody can lose, one person will be president, either barack obama
or i think -- >> i don't want a partisan judgment, i ask as financial journalist, both of you, because we know where he stands. is there someone that stands out as making sense to you in this race regardless of their politics or the likelihood they might win. >> i truly think it's impossible to give a purely technocratic answer to that. >> right. >> i think in the republican field tech know crates will say mitt romney and jon huntsman makes the most sense on the economy. i think barack obama and tim geithner are a strong economic team. >> right. >> i agree, romney is sounding better than four years ago. sounding less like a salesman. that's a good thing for him. i think we haven't seen a real coherent what are we going to do about jobs plan. from either candidate. obama is trying but keeps getting gridlocked. whoever can do that will win. >> stephen, if europe fails or gets worse than it is now, what are we going to do about jobs plan suffers greatly.
>> no, look, it affects the u.s. economy. we're in a global economy now. look, i do want the economy to get better, i think jobs are number one. i think there's a complete ideological difference. republicans say they don't want to raise tacks. taxes. i think they're right on that. i hope they get an agreement another super committee. if we can't cut the first trillion dollars, how are we going to get to the next 9 trillion. >> we'll talk later in the show about the super committee. there has been some movement. pat toomey, last guy i expected to do it, is responsible for some of it. let's see where we're going. europe's debt crisis is partially america's problem. what it means specifically for your investments and job search. coming up next, stay with us. state farm. this is jessica.
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real implications for your job and investments in the united states. our good friend cnn.com poppy harlow joins us with jim a managing director at zephyr. all eyes on italy this week, what does that mean to us? >> we started the week looking at greece, now it's all about italy. jim, we're going to break down for people why they should care so much about italy. i'm going to pull away countries in europe, all the highlighted countries on the periphery where we're concerned about a debt crisis. take a look at italy. you've got $2.2 trillion economy, seven times bigger than greece. the fear is the lack of confidence in the ability for that country to pull back from a debt to gdp ratio of 120%, which is clearly unsustainable. first scenario if we have italy implement austerity measures and the market believes it, then what happens to jobs in the united states? what does that money? >> that's good news. that means europe will not pull us down, continue to grow in the
united states, not as fast as we want but continue to grow, employers will add jobs and you will have a gradual decline in the unemployment rate from 9% now to 8.5% in a year. >> not enough in terms of creating jobs in the country. but investments, people that have exposure through their 401(k) through europe, what should they b doing in terms of the equity market right now, in terms of their bonds? what should they be doing to protect themselves. >> europe is going to have a recession. many would say they are in it. you want to invest where the growth is. the growth is in the united states and select emerging mashlts markets, china, asia, you want to own the biggest, most conservative u.s. corporation with a global footprint, lever to the emerging markets, united states with dividends and select high-quality companies in the emerging markets. >> be very conservative. corporations, they have been able to weather this recession better than consumers. you've got record corporate profits for a number of companies. the question is, what would this
situation in italy mean for corporate profits? >> corporate profits would grow. the decline in europe would be offset by the growth in emerging markets in the united states states and see corporate profits grow 5 maybe 10% next year. >> when we look at this scenario, we think this is more likely than the other scenario, that italy does not implement the necessary austerity measures or they do and the market doesn't believe that. in that case, what does it mean for jobs in this country? obviously a worse situation? >> it would be a problem. what would happen financial markets and economy in europe would freeze up. it would blow back to the united states. corporations would have fear, would not add jobs and you would not see an improvement in the unemployment rate. >> what do you do with your investments? how much more conservative should you be if this is the case with italy. >> you would probably want to have more bonds in that case, more fixed income, u.s. government debt, corporate debt in the united states. to the extent you had equities, again, you'd want to lever where the growth is, which are the emerging markets.
to the extent there is growth the united states would participate. again, you'd want to own big conservative stocks. >> for corporations, obviously the situation gets more perilous for corporations. what do we have flat earnings for corporations or see a decline. >> you can have a decline in corporate profits under that scenario. europe could pull the whole world down and you could have a 4 or 5% decline. >> the reason why we care about corporations, obviously, ali, is we're exposed to them in terms of our long-term investments. >> they are in 401 (k)s, they are employers. jim, great description of the various scenarios. i want to take your temperature on this. you keep your eye on this closely. what's the scenario you think is most likely. does it get worse in europe or level out or start to get better? >> i think it will level out. i think you have technocrat governments coming in now. they are going to build a bridge for the next year or two. we will not collapse in the next year or two, europe is long-term no growth modestly growth
situation. so we've got no growth in europe, slow growth in the united states and some growth in the emerging markets. >> one important point, jim reiterated, the united states tipped europe into this position, really led europe on its knees to get to this point because of our housing crisis. >> the housing tripped up the whole financial markets worldwide which exposed the problems in europe. ultimately the problems in europe would have been exposed anyway but would have happened more gradually over time so it could have been handled. >> what an excellent explanation. thanks so much for the two of you. we really appreciate that, jim and poppy. now to our debt issues here in the united states. yes, we have some. less than two weeks until a critical deadline for a plan to lower the u.s. debt over time. have u.s. lawmakers learned something from greece and italy? we'll check that out next on "your money." today, investors want retirement planning on their terms.
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six dems, six republicans, one super committee charged with cutting america's debt. since nothing gets done in washington until the last minute, no one should be surprised we don't have a deal yet. >> even though time continues to run off the clock, we are not giving up hope reaching an agreement with the democrats until the stroke of midnight on the 23rd. >> until the stroke of midnight on the 23rd of november. the goal is to reduce our nation's deficit by at least $1.2 trillion over the next 10 years. jeanne is a senior writer at cnn money. she knows more about this story than pretty much anyone else i know there was once hope, however faint, that something monumental might be done by the thanksgiving deadline. they have to have a deal by then and has to be voted on and passed without change by christmas or something bad happens. i'm not even sure we should hold out hope for anything monumental.
do we need to lower our expectations or change them? >> the hope was faint it would be monumental, it was always a possibility. what we're hearing the plans they seem to be trading back and forth on are closer to minimum target of $1.2 trillion. people will be happy enough if they get to $1.2 trillion. they have proposed more but there's still a lot of disagreement between democrats and republicans on the revenue side of the equation in terms of the magnitude. >> in your opinion, have the two sides, which seems to be in tractably opposed made any measures toward coming together? >> pat toomey, a conservative republican put out a tax plan this week that sort of was against orthodoxy in that increase tax revenue, didn't increase the tax but would reduce tax breaks that would raise more tax revenue. democrats rejected it out of hand, countered with another proposal that raised more revenue. republicans didn't like that. but the fact that republicans put revenue on the table even if
you don't like how they did it or how much they did it, it's a step forward. it's a step forward. >> let's hope they get how serious it is. bob bixby, executive director of the concord coalition, despite the s&p downgrade following debt ceiling debacle back in august, the u.s. remarkably is still able to borrow money at remarkably low rates. something you say is part of the problem here because it doesn't get us to underscore the urgency of the situation. do the events of the last few weeks in greece and italy, will they scare this super committee into serious action or can they continue to ignore this problem? >> well, i certainly hope they take a look at what's going on over there and see our potential future here if we don't get the act together. there seems to be a great amount of hubris that people can look what's going on in italy and greece and say it could never happen here, we're the united states. there's no particular reason why it couldn't happen here. i mean, it's good that we can borrow money cheaply right now.
but the fact of the matter is, it is allowing us to take on a huge amount of debt at a low interest cost. when that debt has to be rolled over at a higher interest cost later on when the economy picks up, it will leave us with an incredible interest burden. >> very much like exactly what happened in the mortgage crisis. low interest mortgages. low rate mortgages. when it came time to refinance, rates had gone up. bob, what is your solution to this? you have interesting ideas. you don't think the process of these closed door meetings and back room meetings of the super committee is the right way to do this? >> i think the committee made a mistake retreating into the dungeons of the capital and closing the doors. you know, how we solve this unsustainable fiscal problem we have, a matter of great urgency, is something the american people have a great interest in. it's going to affect the basic entitlement programs, revenues, that sort of thing. the american people need to be involved in the decisions.
so i think the committee should have been much more public, had public hearings, maybe gone around the country, do some things, involve the public more in their deliberations. >> which by the way is what your group has been doing for years trying to draw attention to it. clearly it's been difficult to convince people. jeanne, just remind us, what happens in the worse case scenario they do not come to a deal by thanksgiving? >> i was talking to market strategists, the response isn't going to be that dire. stocks may become volatile in the near term because they're going to be disappointed. generally traders are like, yeah, they are going to fail. that's the expectation. in terms of a downgrade -- >> that's where we've gotten in politics. the expectation is they will fail, and if they don't we'll be a little relieved. >> bonds probably won't get hurt mostly because europe is such a problem now that we look better in relation to europe. in addition people are thinking, so super committee fails, in law that means a trigger of spending
cuts will go off equal to the amount of super committee was supposed to come up. congress may cancel that trigger but they have to deal with bush tax cuts in 2012, that cost $4 trillion. over ten years. this issue is not going to go away in 2012. places like moody's rating agency are looking to see what congress will do before they throw the hammer down and downgrade us again. >> when we look at greece and italy, they know what they have to do, why don't they just do it? i'm sure people say that about the united states as far as this debt ceiling. they know what to do, just do it. answer this for me, bob. do we know what we have to do? there have been choices. in my views, many, many studies, we've studied this thing, it's just a matter of making political decisions. >> i think they know they do know what they have to do. they know they have to put revenues and health care on the table. those are the two big issues of the reason we haven't come to an agreement democrats and republicans have fundamentally different views on how to reform health care and reform the tax
code. i think that until we make a big deal grand bargain you might say compromise there, we're not going to be able to really solve this problem. >> let me ask you this, bob, we've followed you, you have gone -- you're a trooper for this, gone around and held public meetings you would like congress to be holding. it's been difficult to get this issue to catch fire with average americans, is it not? >> well, i think americans are not as much recently as it has been, three straight years of trillion dollar deficits has caught people's attention in the last four years. i think what the problem is americans are quite willing to face these hard choices. the problem is you've got political imperatives work against substantive accomplishments. it's quite easy to go on the campaign trail and say no, no, no taxes won't go up. no. no. no, we can't gut medicare and accuse the other side of wanting to do those things.
i find when you talk to people they are actually quite rational just inflamed by these political ads. yeah, i think this is why it requires political leadership by the committee, by the president, to go out, make hard choices in cooperation with the public and sell it. saw say this is what we have to do. i think bowles and simpson did a great job, they are the model. >> i think people while aware of the issue, are like i need a job first, need to be helped first, my house value needs to go up. they are looking for nearer term solutions. they are frustrated, this 20, 30 year outlook, what about next week, next month. there is expectation perhaps if the super committee comes out with a deal. they'll have some stimulus like measures. >> sweeter in for the short term. good discussion, let's hope the one in washington is as productive as this one. political imperatives work against substantive accomplish mns. bob the executive director of
the concord coalition, jeanne sahadi, senior writer. cnn money. you want to read jeanne's stuff to stay on top of the situation as it unfolds over a week and a half. for some it's a pipeline that will create 20,000 jobs and bring much needed oil for canada. others consider it a pipe dream, environmentally dangerous plan that should be scrapped. will cain and pete dominick go head to head next on "your money." no pie today, ted? no, no, i just paid my car insurance bill -- ouch. [ man whistles ] sounds like somebody paid too much. excuse me? i use progressive's "name your price" tool.
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i'm going to talk to you about keystone xl, not a new beer from coors but the most important pipeline project in decade. transcanada's $7 billion project would pipe around 700,000 barrels of oil a day from canada's oil sands to refineries on the gulf coast. now, let me just tell you why this is an issue. the united states uses $18.8 million barrels of oil a day. 18.8 million barrels of oil per day, but it produces only 9.1 million barrels of oil per day. bit of a shortfall as you can see. canada is already the largest source of non-u.s. oil into the united states. it accounts for a quarter of total imports. not saudi arabia, but saudi
arabia, nigeria, venezuela, then mexico are after them. they are all after canada in terms of the amount of oil the united states gets from other countries. the obama administration faces a political problem whether it approves keystone xl or rules against it. business groups and trade unions support the keystone project which is estimated to create 20,000 construction jobs and bring in $5 billion in tax revenue. but environmentalists oppose the pipeline. it's a route they have a problem with because it goes over a major source of freshwater through nebraska sandhills. now, this past thursday the obama administration said it would delay the decision on the pipeline until 2013 after the elections. the state department will use the extra time to study an alternate route through nebraska that avoids the environmentally sensitive regions. the yellow line is the existing pipeline. the dotted orange line is the
proposed extension. it's a lot shorter. it goes through aquifer. that's where the issue is. now environmental groups also contend that oil produced in canada's oil sands is dirty, producing oil from the oil sands generates between 5 and 30% more greenhouse gas than conventional production. but stopping the pipeline won't put a dent in global warming, canada will simply export its crude to energy hungry asian markets and will not have an effect on the oil prices in the united states. 700,000 barrels a day may sound like a lot but it's a drop in the bucket of u.s. consumption. there's my argument. if that pipeline doesn't get built that oil will come out of the ground in canada and someone is going to buy it. that pipeline needs to get built, pete. >> it's good to know, ali velshi, the coke brothers finally got to you. i know we disagree on you this. can we put this map back up so will and i can look at this.
listen, here is the problem with this pipeline. okay? the pipeline is going right down there in the gulf of mexico to a port. why is it going to that po rts? so all of that oil, most of it, can go to the economic biggest competitor, china. why not build the pipeline that way right to china, because that's whose going to benefit from the oil. you know who is not going to benefit from the oil, maybe over, the north pole. consumers are not going to win. the oil industry and oil companies will win from this. that's why we shouldn't be paying attention to their figures for jobs, 20,000 jobs. cornell did an independent study that said only -- fewer than 5,000 jobs created. who wins? people who invest in and make money off the oil industry. who loses, consumer? >> 401(k) invest in the oil industry. the oil industry wins either way. >> gas will go up and jobs temporary. >> speaker john boehner, put out a statement after this delay was announced by the president. here's what he said. quote more than 20,000 new american jobs have been
sacrificed in the name of political expediency by punting on this project, the president made clear campaign politics are driving u.s. policy decisions at the expense of american jobs. will cain? >> pete just illustrated the reason being given for delaying this pipeline approval is a complete farce. the reason being given it's environmental damage to the aquifer, which we just saw on the map is massive. right. it's going to have horrible environmental impact on it. i'll use visible aids, too. right now something like 8,000 wells being drilled through the aquifer. surely laying a pipeline over the aquifer won't have the environmental impact of drilling through it. the point is that argument makes no sense. it's not true. the truth is, this is an argument for climate change zell lots worried this new pipeline is game over for climate change. >> we did draw a sign on the side of environment always, draw a line in the sand, tar sand on
this issue. it is a huge win for environmentalists that pick this issue that will have momentum. but forget about the environmental impact. environmentalists have overexaggerated just like petroleum institute overexaggerated. >> john boehner used the number 20,000, it's nowhere near that number. we in the media shouldn't quote that number. >> why oppose it? >> because of its negligible impact on the economy. >> two issues of environmental impact. the first one, as you said, it's going through an aquifer and fear pipelines leak, because actually pipelines do leak. i think that is a valid concern. there may be ways around it but that's a valid concern. the second and probably bigger environmental concern is what happens in the oil sands in canada. you know you can see it from space because it's denuded the forests, uses hot water, energy intensive way of producing energy. again, a very valid argument. i'm not arguing somebody should like or shouldn't like the way oil is produced in canada. all i'm saying, that oil, every drop of it will still get produced and bought by someone
else if the u.s. doesn't buy it. we -- >> the oil goes on the market. why do we think we're getting this oil? >> we are we building a pipeline to our ports. it's not going to us, it's going to china, why they are buying up the seven biggest canadian oil companies. we're shipping oil across america to send it to china. >> the pipeline will be built directly west straight to china. wouldn't it be the nice to have the option go through our manufacturing jobs and our markets. it's an option. why not. >> i'm canadian. when this doesn't work out you can live with me when i move back to canada when we don't have any oil shortages there. >> it's a valid and interesting is it discussion. the keystone pipeline. you will hear more about it. the keystone xl. seems everyone is angry at big banks and wall street. one woman decided to do something about it. how her fight may have saved you
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as you know by now, bank of america will not be charging customers a $5 a month debit card fee. what you might not know is the woman behind the influential campaign against the fee is a 22-year-old recent college graduate who you have maybe seen on tv before. molly, good to see you. thank you for being with us. >> thank you so much for having me. >> you closed your accounts because of the fee, a lot of people did that. that is not where you stopped. you started an online petition that went viral. you got more than 300,000 signatures, i don't know what the final figure was. do you believe you're the reason bank of america agreed to repeal this wildly unpopular fee? >> no, i don't believe i'm the only reason. you know there are people closing their bank accounts, bank of america lost thousands of customers. there are protests and actions across the country, they were getting bad press and i think the 300,000 signature petition had some impact certainly. >> nobody ever before this
changed their bank. nobody closed -- i really think the number of people who ever did anything like that was very, very small. were you doing it because you didn't want to pay the $5 fee or were you doing it in protest? >> i was doing it both. you know, i really obviously am against paying the $5 fee. and i believe that there were thousands of other people who were also against it. and, you know, i figured if i made a change in a petition and thousands signed on there would be a chance of them repealing the fee. >> tell me the mechanics of this. i work in tv. i tweet. i use social media. i don't think i've ever done anything remotely as effective as you, who has none of that background. what are the mechanics of that? what went through your mind? you closed your account and said i want to see if other people are mad about this and what they'll do. what do you even do? >> change.org is a plat fform f petitions online. i knew that it had the potential to be really effective. so i created the petition. i wrote it up. and i sent it out on twitter a little bit and also on facebook and it just went viral. over 300,000 people signed it.
so it was kind of, i think a combination of the fact that people are so upset now with banks to begin with, you know, and just the fact that they really like the petition. >> you're a little bit of an activist, though, to start with. it is not like this is the first time you've done anything that is described as activist. >> right. i mean, i never created a petition before. but sicertainly do consider mysf an activist. >> what was the interaction between you and the bank of america once you decided to start this activity? >> i launched the petition. after a week and a half, bank of america executive called me up to acknowledge the petition. he said he knew about it, bank of america knew about the petition, that they were following it, that they were aware of all of the press, and he called me basically to tell me that and also to explain the fee to me. and i haven't heard from bank of america since. >> very interesting. you're not going back to them. >> no. >> i want to ask you this, are you still -- you earn very little money and you -- this has got to -- this made you one of
the most effective campaigners in the country. i got to imagine somebody wants to hire you at this point? >> yeah, i have gotten a couple of people who are interested in talking to me, so that's exciting. >> you are a very effective, molly. we wonder how people can affect change and you've done a great job of it. we salute you, molly katchpole, an activist who actually made things change in this country. stick around. [ male announcer ] does your prescription medication give you the burden of constipation?
if you watched me on tv at all this week, you'll know that christina and i have written a must book together. it was published on tuesday. christina and i worked together for a decade as financial reporters and anchors. we covered the same stories but delivered them differently for slightly different audiences on
different shows and at different parts of the day. but we are both committed to our audiences understanding money. by money, i don't just mean markets. i mean jobs and global economic trends and effective schooling for your kids and retraining and budgeting. the decision about whether to buy or rent, how to budget or if you're more than a financial novice and you might be, how to fine tune your investments so you get the most out of them in volatile times like these. we wrote the book based on the conversations we had with you over the last few years. your e-mails, your calls, your facebook posts and your tweets, working hard to answer the questions you have. but more than that, we answered some questions in the book that you haven't asked. like how your small business here in the united states can profit from the growth in china. how your kid can best position themselves for a knowledge-based economy and how you can completely reinvent and reposition yourself out of a dying industry into a burgeoning one. i spent almost my entire working life reporting on the economy
for you. doing so is a privilege and a responsibility that i take seriously and i know that you have other things you could be doing right now than listening to me. so whether you're a doctor, a trucker, a lawyer, a stay at home parent, or a construction worker or a teacher, christine and i have written a book that will help you get fluent in the language of money and be better able to discuss money with your loved ones or your co-workers or other important people in your life. we live complicated economic times now and you can't control the stock market. you can't control what the elected officials do in washington. but you can control how you invest your money. you can control how much money you put away for retirement. you can control how you and your family handle daily finances. i can't promise many things, but i can promise you if you invest a couple of hours into reading the book, you will be equipped to make better financial decisions and as always we welcome your comments about the book and your criticisms, how we can do it better next time and how we can do it better every week on our shows. than
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