tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 18, 2011 11:00pm-12:00am PST
it's also like slithery and. what's on that? >> it's actually not all bad news, this pizza is a vegetable thing. i'm thinking it will help a lot of people get to that five servings of fruits and vegetables a day thing, especially if you count wine as a fruit. suddenly certain "360" staff members are the healthiest people i know on the ridiculist. that's it for us.360 staff memb the healthiest people i know. that's it for us. thanks for watching. aaron burnett starts now. >> we're on the front line at penn state tonight. second mile, the charity jerry sandusky cofounded could be turning. joe paterno says he has long cancer. and then, the natalie wood case opened almost 30 years after the actress died. a man who was there that night, out front tonight. and the bottom line of the super committee. five days left until the deadline. it is time to rock and get a deal done. so let's go out front.
>> i'm erin burnett. outfront tonight, count down. >> nothing is all right until we decide it is. was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor? hell no. and it ain't over now. when the going gets tough, the tough get going. who's with me? let's go. >> we're with you. that was john belushi inspiring the troops in animal house. and that's the kind of inspirational message our super committee needs to get the job done. they have five days to make a deal. now, if you think that's not a lot of time, consider this. any proposal must be made public
48 hours before the deadline. so the pressure is on. now, there is still time. but, today, democratic panel member john kerry came out of a closed-door meeting sounding less than optimistic after his side balked at a gop offer that didn't have what he felt was enough taxes. >> we're still working. i hope we can get there, but i don't know. >> if the committee fails, $1.2 trillion of automatic cuts will kick in. half from republican sacred cows, like defense, and half from democratic sacred cows. none from social security. now, the threat of these cuts was supposed to force the panel to take action. but i can't decide what's more offensive. that the cuts don't take place until 2013, after the election, allowing both parties to run for reelection dishonestly because the americans haven't felt the pain of cuts yet. or, the republicans and democrats may only agree on one thing. that they may remove the
automatic cuts. so they'll get no automatic cuts and no negotiated cuts. all of this made me feel like howard biel on the american network. >> i need you to get up right now and go to the window. open it and stick your head out and yell i'm as mad as hell and i'm not going to take this anymore. >> i'm not going to take it anymore. >> i'm mad as hell and i'm not dwoing to take it anymore. >> i'm not going to take it anymore. >> the bottom line is america must reduce its borrowing that. is a fact. if we do not, companies won't hire, our economy won't grow and interest rates will one day go up a lot. on mortgages, on credit cards on any kind of loan. on everyone. at the same time, our economy will flat line. the 12 member super committee has a chance to change the path, to do a deal and to do a deal that is big. $4 trillion or more.
if they don't, those 12 people will confirm to the world that this country cannot govern itself and hand the future on a silver platter to china. jim bianco is president of bianco research. and john avenalon is a cnn contributor. you have looked at the numbers. you have done the math. how big of a deal do we need to do to really make a difference and tell the world and the markets that lend to america that we're serious? >> oh, i think the $4 trillion number that you cited is probably the range that we'd have to do. the minimum, of course, they'd have do is 1.4 trillion to raise the debt ceiling, which is going to hit again. but if you want to send a very broad message, i'd say $4 trillion, if not more. and the more you send, the more you would do, the stronger the message. >> and if they don't do a deal and then they get rid of these automatic cuts, as we have heard people say he wants to get rid of, that would be a debt ceiling
problem soon, right? >> it would be august of last summer all over again. remember we were talk about default and we were talking about not paying on our debt? and we were all worried about the doomsday scenario. if we call the whole thing up, in six weeks, we have the debt ceiling again. i suspect the tea party is not going to roll over again. they're going to call for a shutting down of the government, again, like they were last summer and we're going to be all over again. and the markets didn't like it at all. >> i want to ask you about that in a moment. that could be more downgrades. maybe not now, people, but, soon, much higher interest rates. john avalon, do you think they get it? >> they apparently don't. they're coming up to the cliff. and this is pathetic. this is a self-inflicted crisis. they have the mandate to do something and do it big. 150 of their colleagues in congress said go big, hit that 4 trillion. and here they are in the 11th hour and they seem to be struggling.
here's the emergency they need. the world's sole super power cannot be the world's largest debtor nation. if they fail, it would be a black mark on our nation and we will be back at this negotiation again. >> david, is this a moment where you have someone, like a john kerry on the democratic side, stand up and say, you know what, i don't care about getting reelected? i just don't care because i care about my country more? it seems like we need to hear more of that, don't we? >> it's been ais to be stonishing. it's the most irresponsible congress i can remember. it looks like they're heading toward another cliff. look, there are good individuals in this group. but the differences are obviously profound. and what's been stunning to me is that we have lost our capacity to find the middle, to find some way that each side can let go some of their principles in order for the greater good to prevail. and the -- if this fails, the markets are going to shut down
immediately. as mr. bianco said, if this fails and we void the sequester, audit these automatic cuts, then the markets are really going to take a blow and we're going to look at downgrades. >> what do you think about the scenario -- the downgrade scenario, jim bianco? >> it would be bad. the s&p downgraded last summer and the dow jones industrial fell 600 points. the second downgrade is the one that matters more because then that mean that is the majority rating is aa plus. right now, it's still triple a even though one of them has a aa plus. the next downgrade would be worse than the first downgrade. it would fundamentally change the way that we do business. we use treasuries as a cash proxy. if they're no longer triple a rated, they're not cash anymore cht and a lot of transactions cannot occur because there is no
cash proxy for them. >> and, as you know, the other part of this is, if this is occurring in the context of enormous anxiety in the markets about europe, and if you combine a lack of political leadership in europe and now with a -- yet another failure of a political leadership in america, it's that combination that casts us into an uncertain place. who can say with certainty how the markets will respond over the next two or three months. if they simply fail this time out. you know, they're just -- these members of congress are playing with fire. they are putting our economic well being, such as it is, at further risk. >> that's right. >> and that's what -- it's unbelievable to me. where are the people who want to be president? you know, the presidential candidates on the republican side? the president, yeah, he put a plan out, but they're all awol, basically. >> and, as david just said, you know, this summer, they were saying let's go over the cliff.
let's default. this is a fundamental cross section we are at right now. the s&p cited political brinksman ship. here we are out doing the same thing again and here's what's really sick. you've got political strategies in both parties saying we'll deal with it after the election. let's keep the election year alive. that is irresponsible. we cannot kick this down the road any longer. they need to deal. >> and it is. i'll give the final word to you, jim. once it happens and once you lost the faith of the markets, it's fine. no, that's what happened in europe. they borrowed too much money. they kicked the problem down the road until it was too late. and now they're dealing with 20% interest rates over there. and if we start doing that, we're going to get to the point where the markets are going to blow up and the markets are not going to write themselves. that's what happened in europe a year and a half ago and we're playing that same game. >> thanks very much to all three of you. sure hope those super committee
members are watching. 20% interest rating remaining the best economy in the world. it's a choice and they can make it. all right, outfront next, newt's pay out is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. and two deaths that might have been murder. a woman found hanging in her home and 30 years after police ruled natalie wood's death an accident, a case reopened. we talk to somebody who was with her the night she died. and wild fires rip through reno. we go there tonight. ♪ i'm burning out this useless telephone ♪ ♪ my hair is gone ♪ cheap cologne ♪ motor home ♪ i'm the rocket man! [ both ] ♪ rocket man ♪ burning out his fuse up here alone ♪ burning out his fuse up here alone? ahh. [ male announcer ] crystal clear fender premium audio.
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time for the political play of the day. this week, profiting from public office. we're talking about some people call capitalism. the resolving door between government and business. and it's a revolver going in crazy. like a mall at christmas time. john avalon is taking a look. >> that's right, erin. revolviing door has been workin
over time. he came under scrutiny from pams he took totaling $1.6 million. he says he was giving historical analysis. but, as a point of comparison, the average historian makes around $60 th,000 a year. this week, it took on new urgency. when it came out that he had made $37 million through the center for health transformation over 8 years working for the health care industry. now, it's the hi pock ra si that comes with that. take a look at this kind of quote that he was pe daling at the time. anyone who earns more than $50,000 must purchase health insurance or post a bond. now, if that sounds like the individual mandate, it's because it sounds like the individual mandate. this is the kind of situational ethics that drives people crazy about politics and our politician. but it's not just newt. it's a lot bigger than newt.
and this week, a bomb shell new book brought light to an old practice. the title of the book, throw them all out by peter scweitzer. and it was detailed by members of congress who indulge in basically insider trading. it's a bipartisan epidemic. both parties. but here's the thing. it's entirely legal. that's right. and by the way, some of these folks denied doing this. but this is entirely legal. what sent martha stewart to the pokey, what would send you, a member of congress. it's called honest graph. back in 1905, george washington said say that they're going to lay out a new park. i go to that place and buy up all the land i can in the neighborhood. then it's all perfectly honest.
you charge a good price and make a good profit. that's honest graft. well tharks's our political play of the day. honest graft. it's perpetuation is still discussing folks all these years later. >> all right. so that whole insider trading thing is always -- it's about time. all right, thanks so much to john avalon. we've got a fresh investigation into the investigation of natalie wood. the los angeles county sheriff's department reopened the case today. wood was married to robert wagner and starred alongside the likes of james dean and warren beatty. she was found drowned off the coast of california. she was boating with her husband. her death was ruled an accident. it was written good-bye natalie, good-bye splendor who was on board the night wood died. they're both with us tonight. thanks so much to both of you.
let me start with you, you turned over information to the sheriff just a couple of months ago. was it new or was it information from the book, which i understand was published two years ago? >> it was information from the book. and information that i had le n learned along the course of writing the book. there was nothing, really, new with the information. but what i think made the difference was that because i had sent the department a book after the book was published. but i condensed it. i compressed it. i put it into bullet form with the crucial and critical information standing out. and i think reading it and the information in that format made a difference because they saw everything in outline form and there were a lot of things that needed attention that this case did not receive in 1981. >> so, dennis, let me ask you, you were there that night and you've said before that you had
lied to police back at the time when you told them your version of what happened. why didn't you tell the truth sooner? and what is the truth as you see it now? >> well, actually, i really didn't lie. i -- what it was, none of us really just told everything that happened that weekend. >> so what -- what did you leave out? >> i believe we left out the -- the -- the big fight that happened on saturday night that was just an enormous fight. the wine-smashing incident on the coffee table. >> and who was the fight between? natalie and whom? >> the fight was between the jealousy and the rage of robert wagner was between robert walk ner and christopher walken. robert wagner was so jealous of christopher. that's what the fight was all
about. >> oh and -- and so, what is the take away, marty? what do you think now is the version? or what are police looking into? have they told you based on your book and what dennis is saying, what they're now looking into? >> what they're doing is actually giving natalie, natalie's case the investigation that it deserved. back in 1981, a few questions were asked. robert wagner and christopher walken were whisked away in a helicopter to go home and grieve. there was barely any questions asked. there was no investigation on lots of the issues involved. and the case was closed within a few days, ruled accidental drowning. and it left many unanswered questions. >> well, one final question to you, then, dennis, do you now think that it was murder? >> no, i can't say it was really
murder. the only thing i'm really happy about is, to me, i think it's the -- the generation of detectives today that are taking the interest to do a proper investigation. and that will all be in their hands. >> thanks very much to both of you. a case many people remember and will be watching. we have a latest developments in the penn state rape scandal. sandusky second mile charity could be folding. and did the school do enough in its investigation? we're going to go there from michael. and, now, there are similar accusations of molestation coming out of syracuse university. a man who knows the accused and has known him for 25 years. all of this, "out front." next. and with it comes some aches and pains and one way to relieve them all is to go right to the advil®. i have become increasingly amazed at regis's endurance.
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and now a story we can't resist. last week, a woman in toronto, canada, went to pick up her child. now, while she was waiting in the schoolyard here, she was struck in the head by a soccer ball and suffered a minor concussion. as a result of the incident, the administration has decided to ban balls from the school. a letter, sent home with students, informed parents that students are not going to be allowed to bring or play with any kind of hardball, any balls brought will be confiscated. now, the letter indicates that
the school, located on woodington avenue, doesn't have a problem with students playing with soft or spongey balls. just the hardballs are banned. how about squash balls? those are in between. students are obviously disappointed. they're no longer allowed to play with their balls at the school. one parent likened it to the death of a pet. so far, there's no word if the school council agrees with the decision. but dalton, the premier of ontario, the canadian province where the school is located, discussed the ball controversy during a press conference. >> i don't think balls are registered weapons, last time i checked. and i'm sure that we're going to find a way for it and balls will soon be back in that school. >> well, we hope the school gets it balls back, too. in these days of rising obesity, kids need as much fresh air and exercise as possible. sorry, we just couldn't resist.
and, now, there's something you might be curious about. our number tonight. 15. that's how many times we just said the word ball in the last segment. because you know what? it takes a lot of those to do this story. still, "outfront," nevada on fire. >> we are throwing everything we have against this terrible fire. >> defending the accused. >> i know him well. he was a coach when i was at syracuse in 1983. he's always been a great man, as far as i know. >> a twist of fate. >> if you're going to commit naked suicide, one of the biggest causes is extreme guilt. >> all of this out front in our second half. in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs.
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the second half of our show. the story stories we care about, find the outfront five. number one, the clock keeps ticking for the super committee. five days left for the panel of 12 to find at least $1.2 trillion. if they don't, major economic trouble is heading our way. the bottom line, america must reduce its borrowing. we all have to cut spending on things we like. if we don't, hiring will stop and interest rates, one day, will rise on mortgages, credit cards and loans. number two, the wild fire
spreading through reno, nevada tonight. one person has been killed and the fire has spread to 2,000 acres. officials tell us they've stopped forward progress of the fire. but they express that the flames are not under control. we're told that an evacuation order will not be lifted any time soon. the fda revoked approval of avastin because the drug wasn't shown to be safe or effective. our medical reporter told us this is a very controversial decision. she talked to one who believed that the drug extended her life by more than a year. elizabeth added that insurance companies will stop covering the drug for breast cancer vick till tims that cost $90,000 a year. breaking down part one bringing in $33.3 million in its midnight screenings. tp movie is expected to rake in
$140 million. and if it meets estimates, it will have one of the top five best opening weekends. ever. i wonder if they adjust those things for inflation. it has been 105 days since america lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? super committee. five days to reach that deal. you can do it. an ncaa investigation in penn state. lung cancer for joe paterno. these are the three latest developments in the penn state scandal today. the ncaa will examine how officials handle the child sex abuse allegations against the formal assistant football coach. he's charged with abusing eight boys over 15 years, obviously over the past couple of days, as we have reported, more boys have come forward. the sex abuse scandal has cost ledge dare coach joe paterno his job and now the 84-year-old has lung cancer.
mike is at penn state tonight with the latest. what are your sources saying about ncaa? they're going to look at how the university has handled the scandal? what might the ramifications be? >> well, i'll start with the ramifications. i mean, when you're talking football is so big here, it could be a loss of scholarship. they may be banned from going to bowl games. erin, it's a media term. it's called the death penalty. basically, penn state could not play football for a year. that would be devastating. but let's backtrack. the university is in full cooperation. the ncaa sent a three-page letter to the university. and it's how did they handle the scandal? what can they learn so something like this does not happen again. key point ins there to catch your attention. one is -- >> looks like obviously we just lost mike's shot. so we'll see if we can get that back. do we have it? all right. all right. they're back. sorry, mike, lost you for a second. just as you were -- >> i'm back? >> yeah, you're back. take it away.
>> okay. false start there. i was mentioning the key to this, erin, forgive me if i backtrack again, but the key to this is how did it happen. make sure it doesn't happen again. the coach has to monitor assistant coaches and a administrators in and around the program. there's another line in that letter that says you have to do more than just avoid questionable conduct and improper actions, meaning you have to take action in a case like this. there's four questions that the ncaa wants the university to answer by the middle of december. and the university put out a statement basically saying we're in full cooperation. we know this is the first step. how did this happen and, again, make sure it doesn't happen again. >> and, mike, before you go, joe paterno announcing the lung cancer today. what do you know about that? >> i mean, just what a day of news. and we're finding out. let me read the statement. this is from his son, scott. and this is basically what we know, erin.
scott paterno saying last weekend my father was diagnosed with treatable lung cancer. his doctors are optimistic. this is a deeply personal matter for my parents and we simply ask that his privacy be respected as he proceeds with with the treatment. so, again, last weekend, first time he hasn't been head coach since 1966 and finds out he has lung cancer. but they're saying it's a treatable form. he's 84. he had an intestinal issue within the past year. but they say he's a strong man. >> well, mike, thank you very much. we appreciate your reporting. and, of course, this has been a story that all of us now have been living and breathing. it's been just under two weeks since the scandal rocked penn state and the nation. our legal contributor has been following these outfront tonight. paul, let me start with this. the ncaa bylaws, they say that coaches and athletic staffers
must do more than avoid improper conducts. their own moral values must be so certain and positive. so what do you -- what do you -- what do you make of that? does that mean that they could lose the program? the football program? >> well, this morals clause gives the ncaa a handle to institute an investigation of penn state. and bear in mind that penn state derives $75 million a year in revenues from ncaa sports, like football. so this is literally a death penalty if the ncaa suspends or revokes accreditation of the school. so they're walking a real tight rope here because they're looking at ncaa investigation, civil investigation, criminal investigation and different sets of lawyers are giving different sets of advice as to how to walk this terrible tight rope that the university is on. >> and, in terms of financial liability to the university, i would imagine -- and you've been
looking into this -- that that could be quite significant. jerry sandusky, the money he has, would be used up. >> civil lawyers look for the big pocket. penn state is the big pocket here. they're going to be looking to show the university aided and abetted by bproviding this trap to bring these young children. so they're really worried about this case because of the liability. >> thank you very much, paul. appreciate your time. well, allegations of sex abuse, now, beyond penn state. syracuse the second division i school to face accusations that one of its coaches may have sexually abused a young boy. he was the assistant basketball coach for 35 years. he's been accused of abusing two boys between the '70s and the '90s. he's been placed on administrative leave. the reason for that is that a second boy came forward who it's important to note is related to the first boy and who had come
forward in 2005. tom mcphearson has known bernie for 30 years. i spoke to him shortly before the show. he talked to him about his relationship with berni fein. >> i know him well. he was a coach when i was at syracuse, my freshman year there. i've known him as an honorary fraternity on campus and he's always been a great man. >> so you never -- >> no. >> heard, saw, nothing? >> no, and i think that's the thing that surprises a lot of people about this with bern bernie fein. he's always been an upstanding man. >> i know some people said it was a similar situation with jerry sandusky, except there were various incidents that certain individuals observed. >> so let me ask you what you think is really happening here? and put this in context. you're someone who is an advocate in these sorts of situations. you've testified in front of congress. this is a cause that you've
taken on. so what do you read into this situation? >> well, i think, for the first thing, you have to make sure that you take these kinds of accusations very, very serious. and i think that's what the university has done by putting him on leave and going through what is another investigation. i think the troublesome part of this is that it comes on the heels of a very explosive case at penn state that involve the grand injury investigation. in this case, we don't have that proof. we have a story that did -- what was revealed several years ago, investigated and found to be nothing. and now we have -- we have this second kind of claim -- >> a relative of the first person. >> exactly, a relative of the first person. where this concerns me most is that it clouds the issue of child sexual abuse as something that happens in these big-time sports environments and not something that happens on an everyday basis. and i think stories like this tend to cloud the overall issue. >> why is this something thoo you care so much about? what made you become an advocate? >> i was a student athlete at syracuse and started doing
programs around different social issues. and i always felt like it was about you had the personal control to do something. but when it comes to abuse, sexual assault, it's really the pain at the hands of someone else. >> were you abused yourself? >> i was not. no, i came to this work because i was an athlete and i was asked to go out and speak on pornt issues and felt if i was going to be a part, i had to identify what were the most important issues and, b torks be truly educated about them. >> and you're going to have some situations, potentially right now, in light of penn state that come forward. but it might also shed a light on other situations that are very true and have been hidden because people have been afraid? >> these are all issues that we've all been raised not to talk about. we don't talk about the abuse in your family. we don't talk about the violence in your family. you don't talk about the alcoholism in your family, the drug use. that silence allows these things to continue. that's what we saw at penn state. it was the family that was being protected, the family of penn state. that's wie i'm proud of syracuse
in this case, to be forthright. but the reality is these are issues that we've been raised not to talk about. >> are you going to reach out to coach fein? >> i won't. i will let the machine of justice to work its path and hopefully he will be exonerated. >> all right, don, thanks again. really appreciate you being here. >> all right, paul is with me. i wanted to follow up with you, paul, on this issue of false accusations. obviously, we have no idea what will happen in syracuse. but do you think that we will see more false accusations? >> i think we have to be careful of a lynch mob mentality which is developing around these cases. when you hear about ped feel ya, it's such a horrible thing. but you know something, there are false places and there are accurate and true cases. and we have a court system to separate it out and find out the truth here. so let's not assume everybody charged is guilty. some of these people are innocent. and we've got to look at it carefully as time goes on. >> all right, paul, thank you very much. 32-year-old's body was found
hanging in a california mansion. police ruled it suicide. the new evidence working for the dr. phil show says it looks like homicide. the and the woman that introduced dr. phil to the world launched her show 25 years ago. we go inside. complex options, done. [ cellphone rings ] thank you. live streaming audio. advanced charts. look at that. all right here. wherever "here" happens to be. mobile trading from td ameritrade. number one in online equity trades. plus get up to $600 when you open an account. ♪ my hair is gone ♪ cheap cologne ♪ motor home ♪ i'm the rocket man! [ both ] ♪ rocket man ♪ burning out his fuse up here alone ♪ burning out his fuse up here alone? ahh. [ male announcer ] crystal clear fender premium audio.
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egypt where 10s of thousands of protesters flooded the square. ben, what was the reason for this protest? >> erin, what brought out so many people into the square today is the growing fear among many egypts that the military, the people who took over want to stay in power indefinitely. the military is pushing what are known as supra constitutional principles that would essentially make the military a state within a state. it would ensure that their budget cannot be reviewed by civilians. so many egyptians said enough is enough. some are even calling for its second revolution. erin. >> wow. well, back in mid july, 32-year-old rebecca was found naked and hanging in a california mansion. she lived there with her long time boyfriend. now, just days earlier, his young son died and that death
was the result of an accident which happened while the boy was in rebecca's care. the sheriff's department eventually ruled the death a suicide. but her family didn't believe it. a lawyer for the family tells police out front there's information that the police need to look at. and the lawyer says con existing evidence is consistent with murder. so they had the body exhumed. the results were released earlier this week on the dr. phil show. and i talked with san diego county sheriff, bill gore, who investigated her death and asked him if he seen the new autopsy results and if he will reopen the case. >> at this point in time, the case is still closed. should any new information be brought to our attention, we will be happy to examine it. so far, the family or the lawyers from the family have brought nothing new to our attention. >> the family attorney and dr.
wect, the man who conducted another autopsy, have questioned this whole idea of the fact that she was -- rebecca was naked when she died. they say that they usually aren't naked when people commit suicide. that would be highly unusual. how did you become comfortable with this important aspect of the case. >> this is definitely an unusual suicide. in fact, we approached it from the beginning looking at possible homicide. it was only until we got the results of all of the forensic evidence, the dna, the fingerprints. and i still wasn't convinced until we got the last piece of forensic information, which was the toxicology report. she had not been drugged. and then, the only logical explanation was suicide. so it's not unprecedented. yes, it is unusual. >> dr. stuart did the second autopsy, and he says the first one, which was done by your team, he has no issue with it. but listen to what he did say on the dr. phil show. >> i believe that if the body
had just plum mitted down, then the cervical vertebrae would have been fractured or dislocated, separated, one from the other or from the base of the skull. and that was not present as found in the original autopsy, nor by me. >> how do you explain that lack of injury to her neck? >> the medical examiner here in san diego that actually did the autopsy, dr. john lucas, said, as a matter of fact, the research shows that only a minority of hangings have the vertical -- the vertebrae fractured in the manner which dr. wecht described. so i think he was misinformed on his science. >> and what about in terms of the injuries to her scalp that dr. wecht said could be from blunt force trauma. >> sure. he talked about the minor nature of those wounds. we don't know exactly how they got there.
we speculate that when she went over head first over the balcony, that her head could have hit the -- the bottom of the balcony. dr. lucas pointed out that the -- the very minor nature of these wounds, it wouldn't cause unconsciousness. and he doubted if it would cause a headache. >> was there, in your mind, a link between her death and the death just a few days earlier, of her boyfriend of three years son who died while she was home taking care of him? >> if we were responsible for watching over a 6-year-old and he had a tragic accident, which is what happened and which led to his death, how could you help but feeling guilty about that? we think that was the case. and, as you pointed out, one of the main -- well, if you're going to commit naked suicide, one of the biggest causes is extreme guilt. so we think that played a role in it. there was also a journal kept on her cell phone that talks about concerns about her relationship with jonah and how she was treated by the rest of the family. it was clear that she loved max.
and i think she saw that as her strongest link to jonah. and when he died, i think she had real concern about what was going to happen with that relationship. what was her life going to be like. now, again, we're speculating. nobody's going to know what was going through her mind. and, again, we go back to, yes, this is an unusual suicide. but this would be an incredible homicide. why would somebody try to kill somebody but make it look like a suicide but maybe make it look like a homicide? it's just completely illogical. >> all right, sheriff, gore, thank you very much for tabking the time to be with us. thanks. 25 years ago, oprah winefrey launched an empire that changed thousands, millions of lives. we take a look back next. i find investments with e-trade's top 5 lists. quickly. easily.
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25 years ago, oprah winfrey became a worldwide sensation. and a new book, reflections on american legacy looks back. cheri solato was there the whole time. she's now co-president of oprah's own network. >> it's just like you would think it would be. she is the same, herself, that she was on the air. and every day, nobody knows how funny she is, though, hysterically funny. she is an excellent mimic. >> oh.
>> really, really witty. and, you know, i think most days we spent laughing at my antics. or she would point something out or is that really the show that you want to do, cheri? and i think this is about my 50,000th makeover show. it was a personal challenge to move the bar up, to do something the audience hadn't seen before. and, really, by the end, it was i don't know how much higher. we're going to have to put her in a rocket and send her to the moon. i don't know what else we can do now. >> we're now in the world where the media's changed. there's just so many sources. it used to be the oprah book club, the oprah magazine, and she could dominate the media world. is that done? i'm not saying for her, i'm saying for the future? >> well, there is no question that things have changed. there's too many choices on television probably for somebody to go out and dominate for 25 years like she did. even if they were, you know, as
gifted. but hard to do. >> and how does that play into the new network now? the oprah winfrey network? that's been sort of the one of the first things, at least in recent years, where she hit a little bit of a hiccup. and now she's getting really involved? >> well, i know we finished the show may 25th, took a little nap and then, all of the sudden, we're diving into a 24 hour cable network. >> um-hmm. >> would i -- what i can see -- >> welcome to our world. >> yes, exactly. you guys work really hard. what i can see is that there's going to be more freedom to do more things. that we can widen and expand our vision for the kinds of things we want to do on television. we can take more risks, we can try more things. so, in the end, it's going to be tons of fun. but it is a lot of work getting one going, i'll tell you that. >> so what, when you look at running this network, so far, what are the things you're most proud of? that you actually think are really working right now?
>> well, we just wrapped up the season one of oprah's life class, which was a bold move to go on the air every night to teach using some of the best clips of the oprah show and then going on line for web casts and talking to people around the world on facebook. so that was bold. and a lot of people would say risky. and u you know, the people came. >> so let me ask you, do you think you have enough for the 24-hour channel of programming? >>. >> um, no. we've had a really good couple months. we have some things that are break out hit that is we're reknew newing for second seasons. lisa is just doing a fantastic job. and then oprah is coming back in january with another show, next chapter, which are going to be all the fantastic travel adventures and interviews that people really love to see her on. she's out of the chair. it's cool to