tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 28, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm PST
placement. >> cats are smaerten than ipads too. >> cats are smarter than ipads, too. but the things they know how to do is different than an ipad. >> the most important question, cat versus dog? >> cat versus dog, that is a fight i would not want to get in the middle of. i would say a dog but 50% of the people in the world would say a cat. and i would say i'm agnostic. >> on that note, thanks so much. appreciate it. "ac 360" starts now. erin, thanks. good evening. we begin with breaking news. new explosive sexual allegations against gop presidential hopeful herman cain. these do not involve allegations of inappropriate contact or harassment. they're allegations of a consensual affair. an atlanta businesswoman claims she had an affair with cain that lasted 13 years, an affair that only ended some eight months ago when he began running for president. here's what ginger white told waga, an atlanta television station about the alleged
affair. >> it was pretty simple. it wasn't complicated. i was aware that he was married, and i was also aware that i was involved in a very inappropriate situation, relationship. >> ginger white on the affair she claims she had with herman cain. she also showed waga cell phone records showing 61 calls for tex messages she claimed were from cain's private cell phone. >> we've never worked together, and i can't imagine anyone phoning or texting me for the last 2 1/2 years just because. >> cain upstaged his accuser's announcement when he appeared on the cnn "situation room" before she spoke out. he said the accuser was just a friend whom he helped financially. >> tell bus the nature of your relationship with this woman. >> friend and trying to help a friend because not having a job, et cetera, and this sort of thing. that's all there is to the relationship. and here again, i don't know what's going to be claimed in
the story. it was someone who was supposed to be a friend, but obviously, they didn't see it as a friendship. >> when you say friend, i'm asking these awkward questions but i'll ask you the questions you're going to be asked. was this an affair. >> no, it was not. >> there was no sex. >> no. >> none. >> no. >> after appearing on cnn his campaign released a statement saying in part, and i quote, detractors are trying once again to derail the cain train with more accusations of past events that never happened. the cain campaign is not surprised that another female accuser has come forward due to the fact that earlier allegations were unable to force herman cain to drop his presidential bid to renew america. joining me now john king in washington, gloria borger along with joe johns. you heard him tell wolf ginger white's claims aren't true. here's a part of a statement from attorney lynn wood. this appears to be an accusation of private alleged consensual conduct between adults, a
subject matter which is not a proper subject of inquiry by the media or the public. no individual whether a private citizen, a candidate for office should be questioned about his or her private sexual life. the public's right to know and the media's right to report has boundaries and most certainly those boundaries end outside of one's bedroom door. >> is he right about this that this -- it's certainly different than the other allegations, but should this matter? is this something that is a story? >> well, that's up for the voters to decide, number one. but what you have in trying to deal with this issue now that it is front and center, now that this woman has come forward, the cain campaign has a problem with being consistent with how it deals with a crisis. you have the attorney giving what sounds like legal advice saying this is none of your business, we're not going to talk about it and our candidate won't talk about it at the same time mr. cain himself was on "the situation room" talking to wolf blitzer in a very public way about it. first rule of politics, get on
the same page, be consistent in how you handle this and try to put it behind you. we did not see that on day one from the cain campaign. >> gloria, i guess herman contain should have said to wolf, this is not anything that's anybody's business, this is a private matter and i'm not going to answer it. >> right. >> do you think this matters to people? >> well, it depends on the person. did people agree that bill clinton's private life was critical to him serving as president of the united states? you have people that disagree on that. it may matter more to the values voters in the iowa caucuses which is coming up in about five weeks. but the problem with what happened today for herman cain is yes, he tried to get out in front of this story, but the real problem was that he denied this relationship and his attorney sort of said, look, this isn't relevant to the voters. it shouldn't be relevant to the media. and kind of sidestepped that.
so it raised another question, which is, okay, why then does lawyer come out and deny it when herman cain denied it and why weren't they on the same page here? >> joe, do you think this will have an impact? the allegation is a 13-year-long affair. there has got to be plenty of -- i mean, over the course of 13 years, there's got to be evidence built up that will come out if this does have legs. >> sure. and she already has phone records. you alluded to that. but he's got sort of a veracity problem here. and that veracity problem is with ginger white, the woman alleging this consensual relationship. she says it happened. he says it didn't. and when you look at the polls, they're pretty clear. cain's biggest problem is with women, and women just don't believe this guy or at least they're starting to not believe this guy. and until he deals with that,
until he deals with the issue of the social conservatives in places like awa and south carolina, he's going to continue to be in the middle of the pack. so yeah, it looks like a problem for him. and like john said at the top, he's got to get on the same page. and he's got to be talking with his lawyer, with his campaign, with his staff and saying the same thing. that would help. >> john, joe mentioned the polls, the latest cnn poll released a couple days ago had herman cain in the top tier just behind gingrich statistically tied with mitt romney. do you think this affects the race? >> anecdotally when you talk to people, anderson, even before this, set the specifics of this aside for a minute, they said that herman cain was a candidate heading down, in decline, in part because of the sexual harassment allegations that came up but when you talk to activists in some states some with his campaign, some affiliated with his campaign and some on the other side, of course, they're partisan, they say the debate performances, the inability to answer the libya question in the milwaukee
interview. he's still in the top tier in most state by state polling but his position is lower than two weeks or a month ago. in terms of enthusiasm, a month ago people were saying who is this guy? they were reaching out to find out more about him. you get the sense that that has stopped. i'm in south carolina. south carolina votes third, 54 days from now. a state where herman cain was on the rise. talking to people here today, you get a sense that that momentum at a minimum has halted and he has the challenge to try to re-energize. >> i think the republican voters that i talk to, they don't want a candidate they have to worry about. they want someone who can go up against barack obama and take him on. and they worry that if these kinds of stories keep surfacing, that herman cain's message, no matter what it is, whether it's 9-9-9 or whatever, saving the economy, just gets derailed totally, and they don't want that. so when you look at the question of electability or somebody who
could be a plausible president, this isn't the kind of baggage that republicans want to go up against an incumbent president with. >> the question for herman cain, what do you do tomorrow about this? do you from here on answer that saying i'm moving forward or do you try to pivot somehow? >> well, yeah, number one, it's about prove, it's about evidence. but also you have to realize that some of the voters have at least sent a signal that they're willing to give a candidate a break who's had -- you know, gone outside of his marriage or whatever. a good example of that is newt gingrich. i mean, he has a long history of issues, if you will. and he's doing very well. a month ago nobody would have imagine head was in the top tier. but that was after basically confessing that he'd had an adulterous relationship, converting to kathd ol civil and taking a whole bunch of other step to show he's changed. and those are the options for
herman cain, i would say, at this stage. >> joe johns, appreciate it, john king, gloria borger. let us know what you think. we're on twitte twitter @andersoncooper. does this matter to voters? follow us on google plus. up next also on facebook. the sexual abuse allegations rocking syracuse university. associate basketball coach bernie fine has been fired after espn reported in a phone conversation his wife laurie fine had with one of his accusers. we'll play you some of the call ahead. why didn't the school and the police know about it when it was reported nearly a decade ago? keeping them honest. egypt, anger in the streets and voters heading to the polls today. what can be done to fix this mess? we'll talk it over with thomas friedman of "the new york times." anderson, is there a culture of cover-up at florida a&m university? the parents of a drum major killed in an apparent hazing
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knew what and when about the scandal that's now engulfed syracuse university. coach bernie fine, associate men's basketball coach who has been accused of sexually abusing young boys. fine was fired last night after 35 years on the job. syracuse university cut ties with fine after espn and the post standard, a local newspaper, reported on a 2002 phone conversation one of his accusers had with his wife laurie fine. espn says audio experts confirmed her voice is on the taped phone call. this is undercover video of mrs. fine also obtained by espn. as for the accuser in question, that's bobby davis, a former su ball boy who is now 39 years old. back in 1985, according to the "post standard" when davis was 13 he attended bernie and laurie fine's wedding. but davis told espn the abuse started a year earlier and continued for a decade. he's one of three men who accuse bernie fine of molestation.
the others are davis' stepbrother mike lange on the left and a 23-year-old man named zachary tomacelli. his father says he doesn't believe his own son's story. bernie fine hasn't been charged with any crimes and he denies the accusations. a syracuse spokesman said the penn state story caused them to reopen the investigation. earlier this month police told davis back then they would not pursue the case because the statute of limitations had expired. the questions tonight, however, why didn't the police, the d.a. or syracuse university know of this taped phone conversation between fine's wife and one of his accusers back in 2005 since it was recorded three years earlier? could the tape have changed the way the case was handled? and did it take the penn state scandal for syracuse to take the allegations seriously? in a moment we'll talk with our gary tuchman who is in syracuse
trying to get answers. we'll talk with mark sh wart, the espn reporter who broke this story. but first we want to play portions of the espn tape for you. if you have young children in the room, you may want them to leave. some of the talk is graphic. keeping them honest, when it comes to the question who knew what and when, it does seem that mrs. fine did know and didn't tell police. or at least had some suspicions. listen. >> i know everything that went on, you know. i know everything that went on about him. bernie has issues. maybe that he's not aware of, but he has issues. and you trusted somebody you shouldn't have trusted. >> yeah. >> bernie's also in denial. i think that he did the things he did, but somehow through his own mental telepathy has 'raced them from his mind. >> dave us is not her husband's only victim. >> do you think i'm the only one that he's ever done that to?
>> no. i think there might have been others, but it was geared to -- there was something about you. >> yeah, that's what i'm wondering is why was i the worst one? >> davis and fine also discuss a $5,000 loan davis received from coach fine in the late 1990s when davis was about 27 years old. >> when he gave you the money, what does he want for that? he wants you to grab him. >> he wanted to do me. he wanted me to touch him too. he tried to make me touch him a couple of times and he'd grab my hand and then i'd go away. and then he'd -- >> right, right. he just has a nasty attitude. because he didn't get his money nor did he get what he wanted. he didn't get -- >> it's not about the money. >> it's about the [ bleep ]
you're better off staying away from him. you know what? go to a place where there's gay boys, find yourself a gay boy. you know, get your rocks off, have it be over with. >> yeah, but -- >> you know. he needs a -- that male companionship that i can't give him nor is he interested in me and vice versa. >> laurie fine on the troubles with her marriage. another twist to the story. bobby davis said he and laurie fine had a sexual relationship that she initiated when he says he was 18 and a senior in high school. as for the sexual abuse allegations at one point she says on the tape, that she did confront her husband. here's that. >> i said to him, you know, bobby and i talked, and i know some things about you that if you keep pushing are going to be let out. >> yeah. >> he didn't even flinch. >> i know. that's what i'm saying.
>> he said, beautiful, let him go ahead. >> he doesn't think he can be touched. >> he thinks he's above the law. >> according to bernie fine's wife, he thins he's above the law. his attorneys released this statement last night. mr. fine will not comment on newspaper stories beyond his initial statement. any comment from him would only invite and perpetuate ancient and suspect claims. mr. fine remains hopeful of a credible and expeditious review of the relevant issues by law enforcement authorities. now to what gary tuchman uncovered in syracuse, gary, i understood you spoke briefly with gary fine's wife today. >> that's right. we went on a search for bernie fine and laurie fine. we did not find bernie, but we did find laurie. we thought that was very important because of her alleged role in this disturbing affair. why did she say things on the tape or would she deny she said them or say it was creative editing? we heard from a nephew saying she would come out with a statement saying it was
misinterpreted. it was supposed to be on paper. we wanted to see her in person. so we walked up her driveway here in suburban syracuse, upper class neighborhood. i knocked on the door of the house, and to my surprise, she came to the door and had a short conversation with me. i'm gary tuchman with cnn. i'm sorry to bother you. >> you're not bothering me. >> i was hoping i can ask you your nephew was saying that you might have a statement. >> we have no statement. >> you're not going to make a statement. >> not today. >> is that tape misinterpreted though? >> i have no comment. >> how come you can't comment? >> i cannot comment. >> she did ultimately slam the door, but i was surprised at her disposition. she didn't look angry to see me, she had a slight smile when i came to the door. but we still don't know what her statement will be and if she will come out with a statement. we can tell you something very interesting, you've heard throughout the time that her husband bernie fine and jim
boeheim have known each other for years. believe it or not, right across the street from where the fines live is another house and that's where jim boeheim live. they live across the street from each other. they each have basketball hoops on their driveways. jim boeheim was coming out of his house when we were on the street. we wanted to talk to him, but he got in his car and drove off very quickly. >> what do local police have to say about the investigation, gary? >> we went to the syracuse city police office today hoping to get them on camera. they did not want to talk on camera. they say they had never conducted an investigation into the allegations by bobby davis. they say in 2002 that alleged victim came forward and asked what the statute of limitations was. the meese told him five years and that was the extent of their investigation. they say they've never heard this audio tape until the other day. the same thing with syracuse
university. it did conduct a four-month investigation in 2005. it's not clear why their investigation was in 2005, but they say they didn't hear the audio tape until our viewers heard the tame. >> the alleged victim who supplied the tape to the newspaper or espn, he didn't give it to the university or to police? >> no, he did not give to it the university. he didn't give it to the police. according to the university and police. he gave it to espn. he gave it to the newspaper, the syracuse post standard. why didn't they do a story on it back in 2002? the fact is that courts have statute of limitations, journalists don't. we do stories when they're good, when they're important and when we have the facts. both of those news organizations felt like they didn't have the facts. but it's fair to ask them are there other reasons you didn't do the story back then. we went to the post standard, they said they'd have a statement in 24 hours but we
really wanted it earlier since we're on the air at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. they made the decision not to talk to us on camera. we took pictures of the newspaper building and a guard from the newspaper kicked us off of the property. so maybe tomorrow night we'll have a statement from that newspaper. >> is mr. fine still married to his wife? >> that's a very valid and good question. and we just don't know the answer if the fines are still together. we can tell you that mr. fine did not appear to be in that house today. mrs. fine did. >> it does seem that when that tape was made, though, if in fact that tape is accurate and was made when it's reportedly been made, that they were married at that time? >> it appears they were married at that time. there's no records of them getting divorced, but we just don't know if they live together today. >> let's get more insight on the scandal that's rocked the university and frankly still has
a lot of questions outstanding. jim boeheim, the head coach, as gary mentioned, of the men's basketball team is expected to talk to reporters tomorrow. joining me is mark schwartz of espn who broke this story. laurie fine's nephew alleges that portions of that tape were tampered with. they say they may have a press conference tomorrow. you heard the tape. what's your reaction to the idea that it may have been tampered? >> i did speak with bobby davis about exactly that earlier this afternoon. i said that maybe fine was going to allege that the tape was tampered with. he seemed stunned by that concept. what do you mean? i'm not sure because i haven't spoken with her. bobby davis said, i'm not real good with technology, if there was equipment in front of me, i wouldn't know what to do with it. i only recorded one time a phone call with her and, you know, if laurie want to put her foot in
her mouth, that's okay with him. >> why did bobby davis give you the tape? >> well, at the time, anderson, back in 2003, when he contacted "outside the lines" he made allegations against a very popular and established figure here in syracuse, bernie fine, associate basketball coach. and he told us the story at first on the phone. i came out to meet with him out in utah where he lived at the time. he also mentioned that he had in his possession a tape that was recorded before we had ever met with him a year earlier in 2002. we don't know exactly how he recorded the tape. the tape was purportedly a conversation between laurie fine, bernie fine's wife, and bobby davis. he supplied us with this tape which we listened to, but at the time we have no way of verifying that it was indeed laurie fine. we spent some time with bobby davis in utah. we also came back to syracuse with him.
we interviewed him extensively. he actually told us at the time that he was not the only one who was sexually abused by bernie fine. he told us that he can produce others. he knew that there were others or at least strongly suspected that there were others, and he led us to three or four individuals who we did contact, and all of those people at that moment in 2003 either would not speak with us or would not corroborate bobby davis' story. >> that's what the university has also said. they said, look, we conducted an outside investigation for several months, and all the people who mr. davis said for us to talk to did not corroborate the story. >> well, i have a source that is familiar with that report, and i think what really happened, anderson, is not that bobby davis supplied people to the university that would corroborate his story. i think it's more accurate to say that bobby davis made a list of several names of people who
might be familiar with the allegations that he was making against bernie fine. >> okay. now, you waited eight years to make this reporting public. the police didn't even know about the tape until very recently. was there -- i mean, obviously, they're very serious accusatio accusations. there is the possibility that other boys were being victimized. was there a discussion at espn about releasing this tape at the time or about even telling the authorities about the tape at the time? >> well, journalists are not necessarily required or expected to hand over evidence that they did not obtain or create themselves to the police, anderson. i'm sure you know that. but i think at the very highest levels of our network, the best and brightest talked about this story, and it was worthy of some serious debate.
we talked about it. we had bobby davis who made very serious allegations, who made them consistently over the course of many different interviews. his story never varied. if he didn't have an answer, he would not supply one. he would say he did not know. however, we did not have a second corroborating witness. we did have that audio tape which we did not produce. but until we have a second corroborating witness, and that turned out to be his step-brother who we did speak to briefly in 2003, we would not go forward with the story. that was our decision as a company. it did not meet our standard of reporting. >> in 2003 did the step-brother have a different story or not want to talk or what did he say back then? >> i remember speaking with him briefly on the phone. bobby davis put us in touch with mike lange. i asked him what his experience has been with bernie fine. he said, well, bernie used to grab my leg. i said did he do anything more than that? and he said, not really, i don't want to talk about this any
more. that was our experience with a lot of the young men that bobby davis introduced us to eight years ago. >> how much did the penn state scandal, that story breaking, affect or impact your decision to go forward with this story now or revisit this story? >> well, it didn't affect our decision to go forward with the story at all, but what it did do, when that scandal broke, bobby davis texted his step-brother, mike lang and said, here it goes all again. this sounds just like what happened to me with bernie fine. mike lang remembered talking to me in 2003, he called his brother, who he says he's only spoken to three times in the last eight years, and he said, bobby, this penn state thing makes me sick. this bernie fine thing makes me sick. we've got to do something about this. i want to talk about what happened with me, bobby. what do i do? bobby said, what i would do is
possibly call mark schwarz, who was fair with me the first time. i got a tearful call. i was sitting in a satellite truck covering the scandal at penn state. i got a call from a man who said, i'm mike lang. do you remember me? i do, mike. bernie fine abused me, too. we've got to do something to stop this. that is the first time that mike lang came forward and corroborated what his brother said years ago. >> have you looked into this new accuser that's come forward? >> i have spoken with him. zachary tomacelli from lewiston, maine. i have spoken to him. and the police have spoken to him. he's told me his story in depth. >> appreciate your time. thank you. >> absolutely. >> we'll have more on this syracuse sex abuse scandal. where do the developments in the story leave bernie fine? he hasn't been charged with any crime so far. mark geragos, sunny hostin, jeff
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abuse investigation. the university has fired associate basketball coach bernie fine after espn and a local newspaper reported on this 2002 phone conversation with -- between one of his accusers and the wife of bernie fine, laurie fine. that's her. espn says audio experts confirm it is her voice on the tape during the phone call. she tells accuser bobby davis, a former ball boy for the team, that she knew everything that went on with her husband. she also said that bernie fine
thinks he's above the law. fine denies the allegations. he's never been charged. the wife will hold some sort of press conference or statement tomorrow maybe saying the tape has been doctored in some way according to a nephew of hers. here is mark geragos, jeffrey toobin and former federal prosecutor sunny hostin, a legal contributor for trutv. jeff, what do you make of this? it is bizarre all the way around. >> but the thing that's so peculiar about it is every person who heard about this, or every organization, espn, syracuse, seemed to act rationally with the information available to it. different pieces were available to different parties. frankly, i can understand why no criminal case was brought, i can understand why espn didn't go with it in 2003. i can understand why espn didn't report it. >> i don't understand that. >> we disagree about that. but also, it's just a shame that this has gone on for so long when based on this evidence he
could have been abusing more people. >> you believe that espn should have reported the tape to authorities? >> i think so. maybe a journalist doesn't have the legal reporting requirement, but what about doing the right thing? i mean, you have someone in a position of pow are around young boys who has been accused of being a pedophile. who has been accused of molesting. i think as a human being certainly you have to do something about that. if you see something, if you hear something, you have to say something. why not just report it to the police? why not say we've heard about this and there are tapes. and i believe those tapes corroborated in large part that something happened here. >> she never said that she had an actual eyewitness on anything happening. >> but she did imply that she had some sort of relationship with him. and she implied that she knew what was going on between bernie fine and these young boys. >> mark, what do you make of this from a defense attorney's standpoint? >> i do agree with jeff, and
we've seen a sea change in what happens in the media in terms of reporting and a lack of sources. we've evolved to the point now where if this tape had been presented now to some outlet without penn state being in the background, i don't think that there's any way that this thing would have just been shelved. i think it would have been reported immediately, number one. number two, and this is nonlegal comment. i think you're going to see a "saturday night live" skit that imitates this tape because i don't know why they had to hire audio experts. that is a rather unique voice on her part. and there's going to be a lot of chatter about this tape. >> mark, if she's making an allegation that this tape has been doctored which is what her nephew says she may say tomorrow in a statement, you probably looked into this kind of thing, can you tell in a tape has been edited? >> absolutely you can tell if a tape has been edited. wouldn't be the first time that we've had a scandal du jour where we've had an edited tape. same thing came out with the mel
gibson tapes. i assume if somebody's going to say it, there's a very easy way to test it. you take the tape. audio experts can tell you immediately by playing it back and doing the things that they do so well whether or not somebody spliced and diced it. the fact of her voice and what they -- remember, what's been done so far is espn says they've got somebody who says that's her voice, that doesn't tell you if somebody spliced or diced the tape. >> i think she admitted it was her voice. >> i don't see any way that davis can be criminally prosecuted at this point -- >> you mean davis the accuser. >> i'm sorry. fine. because you can play with statute of limitations in various ways, but i don't see any way you can stretch it back to the 1980s. he can lose his job. i suppose there could be some civil lawsuit although the statute of limitations might bar that. >> the question is if this is, in fact, true, then this isn't generally the kind of behavior that just stops all of a sudden,
so there may be more people out there and the statute of limitations for them might be -- >> you can't talk about prosecutions where you don't even have an allegation of a crime. >> so legally -- >> legally there's really nothing that can be done except that he could lose his job, which is very important since it's a job that's being around kids and it's a good thing that he lost his job. no proof beyond a reasonable doubt standard for losing your job. >> sunny, another man came forward who says at age 13 he had an interaction with fine. >> that's right. >> but his own father is saying he's completely -- this is not true. and he himself, this man who is now 23, this is him being interviewed by the local affiliate. he himself is facing accusations of inappropriate conduct with a child. >> some people are calling into question his account. but the bottom line is unfortunately some that are abused become abusers. so that is not unusual, i think. and he's estranged from his father. and his father, he has alleged that his father abused him as
well. so this whole thing is in the very infancy of this investigation. we see these kinds of things in sex crimes. we see that they're shrouded in secrecy. >> you agree that legally there's really nothing that can be done to mr. fine? >> right. in terms of these allegations right now, it's a complete dry hole. they won't get anywhere with this. i can't emphasize that enough. you've got something that was in 2002. you're now talking about 2011. the 2002 references something that was a decade, at least before that, it's just -- they're not going to get anywhere with it. >> mark geragos, jeff toobin, sunny hostin as well. will the military keep its promise to hand over power to a new government? we'll talk to "the new york times's" tom friedman. you name it. i've tried it.
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on egyptians who are demanding the military regime runninging the country step aside, demanding the democracy they fought for last january be put in place. today was a step towards that democracy with regular egyptians voting for a new parliament. the first voting since the demonstrations brought down hosni mubarak. they sealed boxes with candle wax. some voters said they were willing to wait as long as it took. they believe for the first time ever their votes would actually count. so there are fears the military won't make good on its promise to turn power over to the new government. i spoke about it with thomas friedman of "the new york times." he's co-author of the book "that used to be us: how america fell behind in the world we invented and how we can get it back." what's your assessment of the voting today and the importance of it? >> it's very exciting. it shows you how much pent-up
demand there was in egypt for people to be able to vote in a legitimate election. by all reports they waited in long lines to be able to cast their ballot. this is the beginning of the process. it will take a long time. we've seen these scenes going back to iraq. it's a good beginning. we should hail it. >> there are a lot of folks on this side of the world who say -- who look to what's happening in egypt and see large groups of islamists, hear about the power now with the muslim brotherhood, they're working with the egyptian military and say, well, look, we're going to see, you know, a hardline islamic government in egypt? >> it's interesting, again, i go back to iraq because iraq, you know, is an interesting example of what happened. you recall the first elections there, people really voted almost straight sectarian lines. second election, you saw mixed parties. then suddenly you saw mixed coalitions of even islamists and secular people. and i think that's the process we're going to see in egypt and these other countries. one thing we've learned,
anderson, from all these events is that you don't go from saddam hussein to thomas jefferson without going through khomeini. you don't go from an autocratic regime to some kind of democracy without going through some religious phase. these regimes when they cracked at the top, the elevator went straight to the mosque. there was nothing in between because they never allowed anything in between. >> we've been covering syria a lot on this program and trying to keep focus on it as much as we can. obviously, arab league has now imposed sanctions over the weekend. a pretty remarkable move given where they were even a short time ago. one of the things you wrote this weekend was that there there's a particular danger in syria, that in ooe libya, in egypt, those revolutions imploded, but that if syria goes into revolution, it will explode. what's the difference? >> well, the reason is, you know, syria is so much more a
patchwork of ethnic groups, first of all, you've got aloit, the ruling assad family, the big sunni majority, you've got christians there. you then have many parties who have a huge stake in syria. you have hamas has its external headquarters there, hezbollah with a huge stake in the stability of the regime. syria is the launching pad for iran into the rest of the world. turkey has a huge stake because of the kurdish population and a history of syria harboring anti-turkish kurds, if the lid blows off, all the different factions will reach outside to get external support inside. and these all have an interest and they'll reach inside. it will look -- i would suggest -- a lot like lebanon only much bigger. just kind of a big regional brawl. and that would be very dangerous. >> is it -- we're now seeing and
hearing reports about the opposition in syria starting to arm themselves. is that a mistake or is that just inevitable given that there's not some group like the egyptian military which -- they didn't side with the demonstrators, they at least kind of stayed on the fence? >> i think it's inevitable because you have a regime that's really offering no kind of legitimate transition to a more open politics. and is basically killing people right and left. now in the thousands. and so it was inevitable that the resistance movements would begin to arm themselves, but again this is the beginning of potentially a civil war which makes it so dangerous, which is why you hope assad would leave, turn it over to a kind of transition authority that can hopefully create a peaceful transition, but the odds of that are -- one has to be realistic -- diminishing every
day. that makes it very, very scary. syria is the centerpiece of the whole region. if that collapses that will be a an extremely dangerous situation. >> is this something that the u.s. really can't impact or is this something that the u.s. just basically and has to stand by and watch it play out. these are things that are happening internally. >> we learned how to impact it. we learned that in iraq. it takes a trillion dollars, seven years, 4,000 casualties, 20,000 wounded, a civil war and a conflict that kind of tests the other, what you got, baby, what you got? and then we help them with a social contract. we did it in iraq. we're not doing it anywhere else. all these arab revolutions -- and god bless them, you hope they're going to end positively, but you have to be very sober about the prospect. they're all going to have to do it without a midwife, without any e ternal, impartial arbiter. the only question now is the instability we're having. will that lead to an indonesia, south africa transition to
democracy? let's hope so. or will it be a downward instability that leads to a pakistan, somalia kind of military or failed state? you hope it's not the latter, but stability has left the building. >> tom friedman, thanks. >> pleasure. still ahead on the program, fallout from the doeft a drum major. officials have called robert champion's death hazing related. now the family wants to expose what they call the school's culture of cover-up. plus standing up for freedom of speech when it comes to twitter. the story of a high school senior called on the carpet for dissing the governor of her state in a tweet. we're sure j. lo meant no disrespect to new york city. tonight why the controversy about a commercial he made ends up on the ridiculist. ple gesture can spark romance anytime. and when it does, men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day
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suspected hazing at florida a&m university, plans to sue the school. they say they want answers about hazing and an alleged culture of cover-up at the school. at least 30 band members were let go this semester because of alleged hazing. the band's director has been fired. kansas governor sam brownback apologized for what he called his staff overreaction to a tweet. during a field trip to the state capitol last week, emma sullivan wrote to her 65 followers just made mean comments at governor brownback and told him he sucked in person. he notified emma's principal who asked her to apologize. emma refused. it became a national story. emma now has 4,000 twitter followers. stocks surged on reports of strong black friday sales. the dow added 291. the nasdaq and the s&p 500 both rose about 3%. tobey maguire has agreed to pay $80,000 to settle a lawsuit over hundreds of thousands of
dollars he won in secret highstakes poker games. the winnings were paid out by a convicted ponzi scheme operator. others are seeking money for the con man's victims. the suit saying they were exclusive by invitation only. >> la-di-da. >> how was thanksgiving? >> i was actually working down in cuba. >> i ate enough for you, me and the entire 360 team. >> good. coming up, jennifer lopez, commercial she made causing controversy. [ male announcer ] sometimes a hint
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it features a dramatic voice-over and more pauses as she sh extols the virtues of her beloved bronx. >> this smi world. they may be just streets to you, but to me, they're a playground. >> well, j. lo, turns out that jennifer lopez did not actually drive through the bronx for that commercial. a body double shot the bronx scenes while she shot her scenes on some block in los angeles. some people seem shocked. her reps issued a statement saying the commercial was, quote, indeed filmed in the bronx as well as outside locations. the statement went on to stay, as you may know in today's world people are increasingly mobile and their work takes them to many locations. we took the opportunity to film wherever ms. lopez was working to meet the obligation. it has some people's world
turned upside down. i don't know what to believe. what about j. lo's razor commercial. >> your smooth, sexy venus leg. >> now, i can't be sure was there even a blade in the razor that jennifer lopez ran over her smooth sexy venus leg. what about her koouls's ad? >> can i see your i.d., please? >> i know it's in here. it's lopez, jennifer, 23rd floor? >> still need to see your i.d. >> what are we supposed to think? does jennifer really get carded at kohl's or not? does she even work on the 23rd floor? america needs answers. she re-created her commercial at the amas so her affection for fiat is genuine, i'm sure her affection for the blongs is as well. but we can't rely on the sanctity of television commercials. if you can't trust advertising to give it to you straight, who can you trust? we