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tv   Piers Morgan Tonight  CNN  November 29, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PST

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quantities of stuff, pulverizing it. human beings go to the key data. we do it through intuition, through nimbleness, through our ability to learn, to draw information from multiple senses and get there the same -- in a much different way from the way the computer does with much smaller processing capacity. >> when you look at this over time and i know you've been looking at interesting studies "scientific american," is it going to continue to stay this way? because we're seeing this push towards smart cars that can park themselves, and ways to avoid getting in accidents. or robots that can really take over for human beings. >> in certain areas they're more efficient. but they're more efficient in the area of the jobs we don't necessarily want to do. think about a computer diagnostician versus a doctor, for example. if you give a computer a series of symptoms, the computer will go flew all the hundreds or thousands of diseases in a can be wrong with you and come up with these symptoms and come up with your diagnosis. a doctor will look at you, he or she will intuit things, a sense of how you look, how you're describing your symptoms. they can tell the difference between sharp pain or cutting pain. two very different things. >> which is very important and in most cases good, but in idire tn id.3hoto3c case the >> mpoquti, 3 %c vsudo pelen e rlwod y a tonight herman cain bombshell. a third woman speaks out. she says she had a 13-year affair with the candidate. cain says oh, no, she didn't. >> did you have a 13-year affair with this woman? >> no. i did not. >> did you know her for 13 years? >> yes. but i did not have an affair. >> i'll ask gloria allred, the attorney for the first accuser to speak out, what she makes of the claim. plus an administration under fire. conservatives outraged, the left turns against him. this is 2011 or 1963?
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i'll ask frank ridge why he says there's something prize sproo izing that barack obama and john f. kennedy have in common. the nba's come home for christmas. are the fans getting stiffed? shaquille o'neal on the end of the lockout and his extraordinary 19-year career. >> 19 years, baby. >> and the player so good he could only be called magic. the one and only magic johnson on the game he still loves and the causes closest to his heart. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. we'll get to my interviews with shaquille o'neal and magic johnson later in the show. i'll ask them what they think of the deal to end the nba lockout. were they as aggrieved as i was about this lengthy delay and the crisis in college sports in america. but first, another herman cain he said, she said story. a woman says she knew he was marry and she tells waga the relationship was, quote, a very inappropriate situation.
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>> it was pretty simple. it was uncomplicated. and i was aware that he was married. and i was also aware that i was involved in a very inappropriate situation, relationship. >> herman cain denies the accusation. listen to what he told cnn's wolf blitzer a little while ago. >> did you have a 13-year affair with this woman? >> no. i did not. >> did you know her for 13 years? >> yes. but i did not have an affair, okay? and until i see and hear exactly what's going to be -- what the accusations are going to be made, let's move on. >> wolf blitzer joins me now. wolf, an extraordinary twist today because you weren't expecting him to come out with that until halfway through your interview, is that right? >> right. i had known going into the interview earlier in the day,
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that waga, the atlanta tv station, said they were going to have some major news on the political campaign story. they didn't say what it was. when i heard that it was an atlanta station, i suspected maybe it had something to do with one of the two georgia politicians who are running, newt gingrich is from georgia, herman cain is from georgia. i didn't know what they were going to do. it wasn't until herman cain came to the cnn national bureau when we were doing a live interview. just before the interview, he told one of our producers, there is something i want to talk to wolf about. he wanted to get out in front of this store pep they told me what's going on. it's at this point i said to him what i knew at the time. and obviously, the rest is history. >> i mean, what is rather strange about this is that his lawyer went public pretty quickly and said this kind of allegation is a private matter, but there was no denial. and yet he, to you directly -- and we'll play the clip again here, is emphatic. let's hear this.
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>> it was someone who was supposed to be a friend, but obviously they didn't see it as a friendship. >> when you say friend, was it a -- i'm asking these awkward questions but i'll ask you the questions you are going to be asked. was this an affair? >> no, it was not. >> there was no sex. >> no. >> none? >> no. >> and this woman says there was, she's lying? >> wolf, let's see what the story is going to be. >> there we have it. the woman says 13-year affair which we assume would include a lot of sex. he says emphatically no affair, no sex. but his lawyer makes no attempt to deny the allegations and says, this kind of allegation is a private matter. what do you make of all this, wolf? >> it was very strange because lynn wood who is a prominent lawyer in atlanta, he's well known to a lot of tv viewers out there. he's had some very high profile cases. he said in the last sentence of this statement that they knew that by his refusing to comment on a personal relationship, it could cause consternation or
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concerns in the media or whatever -- i'm paraphrasing what he said. but he didn't deny the affair at all. he said whatever happened was private between these two individuals, but as you heard, herman cain had no such inhibitions. he flatly denied any of these accusations. he said absolutely no affair at all, no sexual relationship. it was simply friendship, if you will. >> he did seem to get reasonably emotional when he discussed his wife. let's listen to this. >> i'm more worried that this is going to hurt my wife and my family because it's going to be proved that it was probably something else that was baseless. and the court of public opinion does not consider that when they want to pass that judgment. i can take the lumps. i expected this kind of stuff when i made the decision to run for president of the united states of america. but the thing that i'm worried about is the impact it's going
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to have on my wife and my family because they should not be subjected to false accusations that cannot be proved. >> this is very high stakes, isn't it, wolf? because he's already been hit with a number of other allegations of harassment. he's denied them all. now a 13-year affair. this is a completely different category of allegation. this involves deceit against his wife going over a decade, and he is saying absolutely no truth. she has come out with text messages. she apparently provided the station with his cell phone number. they texted him on that number. he replied immediately. you know, clearly, they have a relationship. the question is, i guess, can she prove it was inappropriate? >> we're going to find out a lot more about this woman, ginger
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white, in the next few days, i'm sure. everyone will be looking at her credibility. would she make up a story like this? would she have any incentive to do so? i'm sure herman cain will be asked a lot of questions about this. you want to be president of the united states, you're bound to get these kinds of questions. when these women start coming forward, two women publicly accusing him of sexual harassment, now this third woman saying they had a 13-year affair, it's going to continue to plague him. he says he'll fight on, run for the republican nomination. but i did press him and he did say at one point -- i said would you ever drop out? he left open the possibility that if this was having a really, really awful impact on his family, on his wife, he would consider that, although he seemed to insist that he would fight at least for now. we'll see what happens. >> let's take a quick look at what ginger white, who is the woman making these allegations, what she said to waga earlier today. >> he made it very intriguing. it was fun. it was something that took me away from my sort of hum drum life at the time.
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and it was exciting. very much the same. very much confident. and very much sure of himself. very arrogant in a playful sometimes way. very herman cain loves herman cain. >> herman cain's made a statement tonight, wolf, saying that detractors are trying once again to derail the cain train with more accusations of past events that never happened. the cain campaign is not prized another female accuser has come forward due to the fact that earlier allegations were unable to force herman cain to drop his presidential bid to renew america. so staking basically i would say his entire reputation now on the veracity of this woman's story. because if it turns out that he is lying about this affair, you would have to imagine that would
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be the end of his campaign, wouldn't it? >> well, you know, you remember the anthony weiner case. >> i do. >> the congressman from new york. he was on television. i interviewed him a couple days before he acknowledged that all the allegations were basically true. but he looked into that camera and he lied directly. now, herman cain comes out in the next few days and says yes, he did have an affair, that would have a huge impact on his efforts to become the republican presidential nominee, especially given the conserative base of the republican party out there. they probably would turn against him. i suspect it won't take very long for the truth to emerge. >> i think you're right, wolf. thanks very much indeed. >> thanks, piers. i want to bring in gloria allred. she represents sharon byal ek who accused herman cain of sexually harassing her back in the 1990s. what do you make of today's new revelations involving herman cain? >> if these allegations by ms. white are try, then it goes to the issue of the character and the honesty of herman cain. i have to ask how many more skeletons are there in his closet? and what happens if more come out? when is herman cain going to come clean with the american public?
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he's now accused a total of five women of being liars. and ms. white is just the latest that he's accused of lying. i think that the american people are going to be able to make a judgment if they have not already done so. >> there are some details about ginger white that have emerged tonight. she filed a sexual harassment claim against an employer in 2001 that was settled. she has a history of financial problems. she's been evicted from apartments and filed for bankruptcy. does any of this matter, gloria? i mean, is it really credible that a woman would make a charge of a 13-year affair if there was simply no truth at all to it? >> apparently she has quite a bit of corroboration in the form of at least numerous texts, perhaps e-mails, perhaps other evidence from herman cain. and does the fact that she's had financial troubles matter? zero, zip, nada. there are millions of women in this country and millions of men as well having financial problems. the fact that she's had them in the past does not bear on whether or not she's credible on
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this issue. as i understand it, she was concerned that people were getting in touch with her, finding out. she also didn't like herman cain's attacks on the women who have come forward. and she decided that it was time to just come forward and tell the truth, as she knows it, as she's lived it. i'm very proud of her, just in the same way i'm proud of my client sharon bialek that she stepped up and provided what she had to say to the american people. and i think herman cain has still a lot of questions to answer. he can't put this genie back in the bottle. he can't put the women back in there, piers. they're not going to be silent any more. if he's upset, he thinks other people are trying to derail him, he's the one that started
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driving this train down the track. if anybody is taking it off the track, it's him and his past. >> i mean, herman cain has dnd all these allegation. he has survived the harassment charges and there is an argument, as it's been put forward by his own legal team that this is consensual, this affair, if it's true, and if it is a consensual affair, then it's a private matter. >> so in other words, he's saying or is his team saying it's okay to be an adulterer and that doesn't matter to the american people? i'd like to hear him answer the question of whether it should matter to the american people when president clinton had a relationship outside of his marriage apparently with monica lewinsky? i'm waiting for the answer to
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that question from herman cain. >> in light of what's come out today, gloria, are you planning any further action with your client? >> not with my client, but i do feel that she is extremely credible and her corroborating witness, one of them, dr. zuckerman, pediatrician, came forward. and we had a news conference with him. and he said that in fact he was the one who suggested that she contact herman cain to help her with employment. in fact, he was there with her when they had numerous conversations with herman cain at the national restaurant association, and that she told him -- that is dr. zuckerman -- about the inappropriate sexual advances that mr. cain made to her not long after those advances were made. so dr. zuckerman has backed her up. and the fact that he said cain that he never even met my client, didn't know her, was shown to be patently false. >> gloria allred, thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. coming up next barack obama and john f. kennedy. the surprising thing these two leaders have in common. i'll ask frank rich about it.
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tonight herman cain on the day barack obama took office the comparisons to john f. kennedy began immediately. both young, both groundbreaking in their own way, both with attractive families. something else, something surprising the two leaders may have in common. frank rich who compared the presidencies in an article in "new york magazine" joins me to explain what it is. a fascinating piece. >> thank you. >> the parallels are pretty obvious. 1963 seems a long way away, but actually in terms of racial tension of economic inequality, a lot of parallels there. >> there are a lot of parallels there. and also in the early '60s during the kennedy administration was really the birth of the radical right, as we know it today. the john birch society, what would become the goldwater movement and, famously, of course, kennedy went to dallas against the advice of people
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close to him right into that nutty atmosphere where people were accusing him of treason. sort of like the birther craziness today that people thought he was an illegitimate president. a communist possibly. catholic, there was a lot of discrimination then in the united states. so it was a sort of savage atmosphere that obama has inherited today. >> in your experience, is obama faying anything new here in terms of the level of viciousness and the level of partisan disapproval, partisan fury, if you like? is this new or does it just seem new? >> it seems new. first of all, there's been partisan fury in this country since the hallowed founding
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fathers. that's always been the case. people like thomas jefferson were despised and ridiculed, in some quarters lincoln later on. but this particular flavor, it's not new, but the genesis of it was about 50 years ago coming out of the eisenhower years when this new radical movement that really was so unalterably opposed to government took charge and started to organize and the centerpieces of it back then were orange county, california and texas. now it's a much bigger movement. in 1963, the year that kennedy died, there was polling that showed 5% of americans supported the extreme right wing views of the john birch society. now we have a major political party, the republicans, where that's the base. there's much more than 5% subscribing to these extreme there's much more than 5% subscribing to these extreme views and reflecting it in ways like shouting out "you lie" when obama speaks before congress. >> i mean, it seems to me, who obviously i'm not an american, i've come into this from britain, where we have a lot of nonsense between politicians.
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but the level of intransigence in washington right now seems so contrary to the national need in the sense that nothing seems to be getting done. >> it's this complete disconnect between washington and the rest of the country. and i think if there's anything that has polarized america that the political parties and the voters of both parties agree about is that washington is a cesspool. congress has a 9% approal rating in a recent poll. that was before the breakdown of this so-called supercommittee that was anything but super. and not really a committee actually anyway. so you have a country that's in enormous economic distress that's still fighting a major war, arguably several, which is heating up. and you have a dysfunctional --
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dysfunctional is too weak a word -- you have a nonfunctional government in washington that now has essentially adjourned until election day 2012 because certainly nothing positive is going to happen during this campaign season. >> let's turn to the gop, frank. there's been a lot of shuffling of the pack here. the constant is that mitt romney is the most popular but can't seem to raise the bar of his popularity above a certain level, about 25% of the votes that are coming in. in terms of newt gingrich, he's billing himself now as the conservative candidate, clearly playing on this sense that mitt romney isn't a proper conservative. who do you think right now barack obama would least want to face? >> i think, frankly, that obama's biggest opponent is the economy. i think he's blessed in all these potential opponents. we all know about gingrich's deficiencies, his going off on halfcocked theories. his temper, his ego, his snide demeanor which has been evident in these debates not to mention the hypocrisies of fannie mae and all the money he's collected, all that.
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but who is the prize here? the problem with romney, he would seem to be the ideal republican candidate. he looks like a republican candidate for president. he's a moderate conservative, i guess, to the extent that we know what he really stands for, but the problem with romney for the republican party is less his ideology and the fact that people just don't like him. i think that's really the problem. and your own party doesn't like you either because they think you're a flip flopper, they think you're not conserative enough or something people don't want to say out loud, they don't like your religion, unfair as that prejudice is, you've got a problem. so all of these other candidates are more conservative than him, but they're also flakier.
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so they don't really have a great choice there. and the chris christie boomlet that lasted ten minutes was an example of their desperation for a miracle that someone, paul ryan, jeb bush, some deux ex machina will appear and recuse them, but i don't think that's going to happen. >> herman cain has been hit by a further allegation of sexual impropriety with another woman. is he terminally shot below the bows now in terms of this ongoing series of scandals about his private life? >> you'd think so. this year is so crazy, this cycle is so crazy in that party, who knows? but i would say, yes.
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i mean, his numbers have been falling and even in his own party and among conservatives, particularly among republican women and women in general, his numbers have been falling. was he ever a serious contender to begin with? i don't even know the answer to that. the guy is a motivational speaker who ran a business, has never held serious office. to me it's as ridiculous as the donald trump boomlet. and who is going to come up next? chuckles the clown? it's absurd, really. >> one who has always impressed me but doesn't get much traction is jon huntsman. why does he not get more attention? >> i think most people don't know who he is. he's someone with actually a distinguished record of public service, moderately conservative but quite conservative views, you could argue more conservative than romney if you look at his whole career, but he doesn't really have a constituency within that party. his main constituency is within the press. everyone who has interviewed him and who likes him finds him smart, i may not agree with all his views. he's running as man of sanity in a crazy situation with this
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perpetual sort of "american idol" version of american politics that is the republican sweepstakes this year. >> frank rich, thank you very much. >> thank you. when we come back, the nba deal, is it a good thing for the fans? or should we all be furious at the naked greed of everyone concerned? i'll ask shaquille o'neal and magic johnson abjohnson. you did it. so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol. [ man 2 ] yummy. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste and whole grain oats that can help lower cholesterol?
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you did it. 19 years, baby. i want to thank you very much. that's why i'm telling you first i'm about to retire.
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love you. talk to you soon. shaquille o'neal's retirement announcement via video. an nba legend, a star for 19 years. hard to believe he won't be playing this year at all. he's an author. "shaq uncut." the inside fly leaf with all the names that you've attracted over the years. superman, diesel, the big aristotle, shaq-fu, the big daddy, the bic shaqtus, wilt chamber-neezy, the real deal, the big shamrock and shaq. i like the big shaqtus. what name do you particularly like? >> the new one that you just gave me. the big duke. >> in england, you would be the
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big duke. >> that's right. >> or the very big duke. >> that's right. >> how does it feel? you're not playing basketball. >> it feels good. i've been playing 19 years, accomplished a lot. would have loved to accomplish more. but there comes a time in life whether you have to do something else. >> did it feel right, the moment to leave? i know it wasn't the perfect scripted ending, but did you feel it was the time to go on? >> it felt right. i left on sort of a sour note. i tore my achilles in half basically, and rehab for that would have been a year and a half. so you know, at the age of 40, trying to come back and play at a high level probably would have been, you know -- i would have had very, very low chances of doing that. i just decided to give it up after 19 great years. >> taking up golf yet? >> no, not at all. >> that's the natural thing i would have thought for you, shaq. >> i live on a golf course, too, but i haven't played in a while. >> i should imagine you could hit it a long way. get a big bertha out and boom. tell me about the nba strike because for somebody who is not an american watching this great american sport on strike because a bunch of multimillionaires
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were having an argument with another bunch of multimillionaires over the odd million here or there, it seemed pretty selfish in the middle of a financial crisis. with 10% of people in this country unemployed, i was like, what are they up to, these guys? >> you used the wrong choice of words. the strike is when the workers say we're not being treated fairly and we want to do something else. the lockout is when the owners say we don't like our deal. in this case, it was a lockout. and both sides made interesting points, but president obama said it the best that if millionaires and billionaires can't come to some sort of a deal and regular people lose their jobs, it will be very, very unfortunate. but they finally got it done. derrick fisher did a great job, david stern did a good job. the first game will be on christmas day. >> it will be fun. >> yes, it will be fun. >> what do you think of obama? >> he's the president, and i
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come from a military background. i'm all about respect. he does a hard job. i wouldn't want that job personally. but you know, i have to show the man a lot of respect because he's the president of the united states. >> i've asked a few guests this. and i'm intrigued by your answer. do you think that having the first african-american president has made america more or less racist? >> i would say less. i mean, dr. martin luther king had this dream and this dream has finally come true. it's a hard job. there's a lot of people in the world, you can't please everybody. but i think he's doing a fabulous job. the world is in a little bit of turmoil right now. the economy's down. but he's going to pick it back up. he is going to pick it back up. and he's going to win this election. i believe. >> do you? >> i do. >> you're a great entrepreneur, you've made hundreds of millions of dollars. what's gone wrong with the american business model. you work yard way up from nothing to be what you are. what has happened to stop that kind of thing happening? >> i'm not sure. you know, for me there's really
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two type of business models. people like steve jobs and guys who build their company up from scratch. to me, they are the real businessmen. i came into the business. and your next guy that's coming out here, magic johnson, was the one who taught me how to be a businessman. he was the one -- >> how to expand beyond the sport? >> yes, yes. he told me it's okay to be famous and okay to be the man and all that. but you want to start owning things. so my view of how to be a businessman is very different because i really consider myself a lucky businessman. >> let's take a little break and come back and talk about your early days. because a fascinating story of how you ever got to be a basketball star and also whether you're going to be sending kobe a christmas card now that it's all over. >> yes. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.
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back with my special guest shaquille o'neal. shaq, it's a fascinating book in many ways. one thing that's interesting to me is the upbringing you had, pretty tough. you know, your father wasn't around. you had this tough step-father who i think you have great respect for. but your mother was really the driving force, wasn't she, for allowing you to live the dream
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that you have lived. >> my mother was the driving force. she taught me how to believe and how to dream. something i call dream for attraction, sort of like the loss of attraction. whatever you think about will come true. my father was very hard. he was an army guy, career army guy. and you know, every spanking i got was deserved. you know, i was a high level juvenile delinquent. if it wasn't for him and his tough love, i could have either went left or either went right. so i owe everything that i am today because of my parents. >> what do you make of these scandals at first penn state, now syracuse with these young kids -- you had been in that position. you had been a young college basketball player and stuff. it's pretty awful, isn't it, what's going on? >> it's very awful. my heart goes out to the victims' families. something that was, you know, very, very awful and shouldn't have happened.
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>> let's turn to your mate, kobe bryant. i used to love the feud because, a, it made your team almost unbeatable when you were together. and b, you sort of need someone like that to get up in the morning. you want to be better than that. unless i'm mistaken, it wasn't that you hated him, you both wanted to be top dog. >> i'm glad you understood that. but hersey and blanchard said that styles vary when you're dealing with task or relationships. as a leader i was focused on the task. like you said, we did certain thins, we said certain things that made everything excited. like you said, also made us unbeatable. i respect the guy, you know. he's the top laker now. and you know, he's a great player. but when ways in charge, when i was leading, i was always worried about the task and the task was completed 3 out of 4 championships, that's it. >> who was the best player you've ever seen?
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>> i have to go with michael jordan. but sometimes that's an unfair question. because the next guy coming in here, magic johnson, he was a great one, too. so was larry bird, kareem, bill russell, wilt chamberlain. >> very important people that said you were the most dominant player. the key thing, physically imposing, dominant. there's never been a player like you. lebron james, the most dominating force to ever play the game. >> my parents always taught me to make people remember your name and be different. i'm not the most skilled guy, i'm not the best shooter, but i wanted people to remember me. so i just used to impose my will, impose my force and that camera guy right there used to be under the basket. >> really? >> yeah, that man right there. >> we have all the best quality people here, shaq. >> that's right. >> what i wonder about you is do you ever go out and people pick a fight with you? >> no. >> i couldn't imagine it ever happening although some kind of weird suicide mission. >> that's because people know that i'm very likable and i'm a funny guy. i can take a joke. >> more to do with the fact that you're seven foot tall and could
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pummel them to pieces? >> a little bit. people seeing me on tv and from seeing me on tout, they know i'm a funny, likable guy. you say a crazy joke with me, i'm going to say something back both laugh and take a picture and move on. >> a fascinating book, amazing story with the exception of your births and kids and marriage and so on, what is the one moment you'd relive again t greatest moment? >> all of it. >> give me one. i've got five minutes i can replay. >> i'm very blessed to have two loving, caring parents. i always tell people if i had it to do over again, i would do it exactly the same way. because my father gave me the ability to learn how to think, to learn how to program, to learn how to navigate. so i would do it all the same way. i had a great childhood. i was able to just sit back and
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dream and i met great people like magic johnson and bill russell or played in the best cities and led parades and get to meet a lot of people. i watch you all the time. so because of how my parents raised me, i'm up here now to be able to talk to a legend such as yourself. >> i couldn't have put it better myself, shaq. >> that's right. >> thank you very much. you're slightly higher up the legend ladder than me. but it's been a real pleasure. a great book. you have to read this. it's a really inspiring tale. >> all right. it's getting better, my accent. >> it is better. you're getting to be like a cockney, a cockney duke. another legend after the break. imagine can jake sun. a moment 20 years ago when he shocked the world. new perspective on a dreaded disease.
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because of the hiv virus
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that i have attained, i will have to retire from the lakers
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because of the hiv virus that i have attained, i will have to retire from the lakers today. i just want to say that i'm going to miss playing, and i will now become a spokesman for the hiv virus. >> that was the moment in 1991 that magic johnson the spotlight on the scourge of this era, hiv and aids. since then he's become the poster boy on how to live with
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that disease and how to thrive. joining me is magic earvin johnson. >> thank you for having me. >> 20 years ago you made that incredible press conference. i remember watching it live like many millions around the country being completely shocked because at the time there was this great stigma about hiv and aids. there was this kind of terrible fatalistic sense that you only had a few months or even a year to live. here you are, you're 20 years later. you look supremely fit and healthy. how do you feel about still being around? >> well, first of all, i've been blessed. god blessed me. the medicine's done its part. my support system, my wife, my kids, they've all helped me to be here 20 years later. but when you think about 20 years ago, people thought it was a death sentence. and i've done everything i was supposed to do to be here 20 years later. then i think early detection saved my life as well. we found out early. i got on the meds right away.
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i had great doctors in dr. hull. so it all just came together for me. that's why we urge people all the time to get out and get tested because early detection -- back 20 years ago there was only one drug. now there's over 30 drugs that can take care of you and prolong your drug. >> what's the reality of living with hiv. aside from the medications you have to take. how do you keep as healthy as you appear to be? >> you take the drugs twice a day, but i work out every day, foop besides working out, taking your drugs, i really believe is your frame of mind. how you deal with it, how you accept it now you have to live with hiv. and a lot of people don't accept it well. so they don't do well. but i think that -- from day one i accepted my new status. i just said, you know what? i can live a long time. dr. hull kept telling me if i do all the right thing i can do, taking my meds.
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so it definitely changed my mind-set and attitude, but at the same time it didn't change who i was. i love life and i love living. i'm going to keep my smile on my face and that's what carried me through. >> to world aids day. what was the overriding message you'd like to communicate on this particular anniversary. >> i think to continue to help people understand this disease hasn't gone anywhere. then the disease is really affecting those people of color, especially in the african-american community. so it's really affected our community in a big way. and 20 years ago when i announced everybody ran out and
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got tested. now i think they're sort of asleep on hiv and aids again, and we got to wake them back up to know that this disease is still deadly. there's no cure out there. so we must get out and get tested, go back for our results and continue to fight discrimination as well because some people who announce they have hiv get discriminated against, and we got to stop that. but the main thing is get the meds in to the people's hands who need those meds. and if we can keep it affordable, it's really going to be important. then the government must continue to do their part, too. funding of different hiv and aids organizations. >> when i look at you and hear you talk and you seem so vibrant and full of energy, when you see shaq who just retired after playing for the entire period since you retired, the 20-year period, do you wish, knowing what you know now, you hadn't retired when you did?
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do you wish you had carried on? >> dealing with shaq, he's the most entertaining, dominant player we've had and great for the game. if i knew what i know today, i probably would have never retired. but at the same time, i was uneducated, i didn't know. i made the right move because i wanted to be here a long time for my wife, my kids as well as just making sure that the virus didn't attack my immune system. if i played that 82-game schedule, the doctors felt it would attack my immune system. were you more shocked by the people who supported you? >> well, i think i was more shocked that the people who did support me. i think that at the end of the day, even when i wanted to come back to the nba, a couple players came out against me, that they didn't want to play against me. that was the most shocking thing. people on the streets or people around the country or around the world, i was really shocked that they supported me as much as they did, i was happy. it was just the players who said they didn't want to play against me. >> he has one of the great entertainers that sports have
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ever seen. let's talk about who's been the greatest basketball player. he says michael jordan. tell me what you think. it can include you. that was you with larry bird daddy, come in the water! somebody didn't book with travelocity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. from the price to the room to the trip you'll never roam alone.
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that was you with larry bird in 1979. you both made it to the nba that year, he beat you out for rookie of the year. that must have really annoyed you? >> i'm still mad today. i'm always going to be mad at anything what ary wins over me. we just have that rivalry. so, i love larry, though, he's my guy. if we played today, i'm going to try to beat him today. if we played 20 years from now, he's going to try to beat me.
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>> clearly the whole rivalry with kobe -- i totally understood that. you know, if you're a professional sports man, you want to be number one, if you're playing in a team, a small team of people and you're both tauted by different sets of fans to be number one in the game, there's going to be a rivalry, isn't there? >> no question about it. i had a rivalry with michael jordan, larry bird, you want to beat them. they want to beat you. shaq went on from kobe to win a championship. just like kobe went on to win a championship. >> who's the best -- he says michael jordan. >> michael jordan was the best, hands down. at the same time, bill russell was the greatest winner, shaq, probably the most dominant player.
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>> is shaq the one you would least want to play against? i imagine you walk out and you have shaquille o'neal bearing down on you, i couldn't imagine a worse moment in sports. >> he's the one i would like to play with. not only was he big, he was light on his feet, and probably the best passing big man -- him and kareem were the two best passing big men that's ever played in the game. >> let's talk about this -- i call it a strike, he called it a lockout. it was a squabble between a lot of rich people at a time when the fans had been losing their jobs, their homes and so on. economic crisis. what was your overview of the whole thing. do you think it was ill-advised? did it happen at all in the current climate? >> when we look back at it, we wish it didn't happen. it was a strike that we always could have been avoided. let's look at it like this,
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we're happy basketball is back on christmas day. we're happy that now those who serve the soft drinks and the parking lot attendants, and the mom-and-pop businesses that surround all the arenas, they're happy because this strike really hurt their business and hurt all those people who work in those arenas. >> i mean, it was a bit selfish it seemed to me. i love basketball. >> yeah, you're fighting over money, you're fighting over the best deal, and it was, but at the same time, i'm just happy it didn't go the whole year. i'm happy that we got it moved past us now, let's move it past us, get on to basketball age nba basketball. >> what is the one basket you scored that if i could give you a minute of your life back, you'd do it again? >> 1987, the hook shot versus the celtics. no question. >> even i know that. >> oh, yeah! you know, that one shot will always be the best shot ever. >> how often do you think about it? >> all the time. >> every day? >> not every day, but also time.