tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN December 4, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PST
the victim's families and hopes they'll find their answers. >> that's all they can do is keep hoping. there was a glimmer of hope when jimmy keene was involved here. hopefully something else will evolve out of this. maybe the things i am done and still am doing will shine a light and give them hope at some point. the nba is home for christmas. but are the fans getting stiffed? tonight i'll have two of the league's biggest superstars here to discuss, shaquille o'neal on the end of the lockout and his extraordinary 19-year career. >> 19 years, baby. >> and the player so good he could only be called magic. the one and only magic johnson on the game he still loves and on the cause that's closest to his heart. ♪ girls just want to have fun ♪ >> then where is she now, the one and only cyndi lauper.
she still wants to have fun. >> you have your good times, your bad times and the times you don't talk about. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." ♪ >> one of my favorite pop videos ever, cyndi lauper bursting on to the scene in the mid 80s with her wildly successful album "she's so unusual." had an amazing five top singles including "girls just want to have fun." welcome. >> thank you. >> you were part of my youth but we sort of grew up together. when you were having fun, i wanted to have fun with you. >> i had a great time. captain lou made it so much fun. he was very -- he was just a funny fellow. >> there was a time in the 80s
you really were at the van guard of pop video with mtv and everything else. what told you at the time this is going to be the way to go, this is the future? >> well, i think all of us at the time when video happened, you know, i view what i do as a performance art. i think the same for a lot of artists of my time. and when you saw a video, you knew we would never listen, just listen to music again, we would always see it. and for me as -- i spent my whole life one foot in art and one foot in music, so this was a great, you know, a great opportunity. >> were the 80s as good fun for you as i always imagined they had to be? >> when i went to london -- >> you were huge in london. >> it was so much fun.
i had never been to london. i didn't know anything. i turned on a tv and there was a program with two people walking cows. you know, and it seemed like they had back yards. and they were just walking the cows and i thought, oh, my god, these english people are so funny. it's just like monty python. you know what i mean? so i thought everything was hilarious. >> we are bit nutty like that. >> one of your good friends is sharon osbourne. she's told me a few stories about you. >> she's awesome. >> i'm glad all the rumors about you i thought were true were true. >> what do you mean? >> well, we had a couple of laughs. >> when you say "girls just want to have fun," what kind of fun did you have in mind and how much of it did you help yourself to?
>> when i sang that song, i saw it as an opportunity to reach out to all young women and girls of every color and make a song about entitlement for women. and in humor, with humor and capture the people's imagination and color, capture the people's imagination and present an image of women that wasn't what was out there but more like the people that i knew, the creative types, and offer young women of all races an opportunity to see themselves in a different light and have a song about entitlement, that everyone is entitled to have a joyful experience. and to me is this song, with all the humor, was one of the most revolutionary things that i could have done and i knew that when i asked my mother to be in
the video with me because it wasn't popular to be friendly with your mom. and the truth is if you don't know where you came, you don't know where you're going. that's how they conquer. you can never lose your history. >> your mother was an extraordinary woman. your parents divorced when you were 5. you grew up in queens, new york. not an exactly an easy play -- >> ozone park seems fitting. >> your mom brings you up and your two siblings, a working single parent. >> and -- >> recovering catholic. i was thrown out of two grade school catholic schools.
>> so was my grandmother. >> well, i'm not old enough to be your grandmother but, you know. no, i thought, you know, there was one time i was just praying to leave that place and then i got expelled and i thought there is a god. >> what did you do to get expelled? >> i don't know, i -- i decided i was talking to a nun and in those days the poor things, they, you know, the men had the breezy clothing and the women had the card board like this and, you know. that always struck me. i love the black and white because it's very french, very stylish but i thought, you know, the card board thing. so i asked her if she went to the beach ever and she said yeah. she said we have a private beach. and i said "and you go in the water"? and she said yes. and i said don't the card board get wet? and there was a two sisters.
one of them, carmen, she had like curly -- she curled her bangs and everything was perfect and she had the peter pan collar and the or one, rosetta, she had her hair wild, her cheeks were rosie, she rolled up her skirt a little and she tied her shirt. to me she looked like an italian beauty. and i always admired her. she came up to me after i said that and said now ask her about menstruating. and i did. and they got so mad that they expelled me. i felt bad but in a way, i loved this girl -- >> why did you get expelled
again? >> no, no, the first time -- >> so this was number two? >> this was number two. >> what was number one? >> nothing really -- my mom had gotten a divorce and we were still in catholic school and there was this priest father cunningham and i really liked him and he would walk up and down by my third grade class. and i would always try and catch up to him. i would say good morning father cunningham. he would say good morning sylvia. i said cynthia. and he would say sylvia. after a while i was like, fine, sylvia. and after a while i went to confession to him because he was my friend. and he started yelling saying my mother was going to go to hell because i didn't go to mass. i said to him in the confessional, what do you know about my mom? you doesn't know anything about my mother. she's a good woman, she works hard and she loves us and don't
tell me she's going to hell. after that the church contacted my mother and they said listen, i think maybe this kind of relationship is not happening. >> i admire the first one. the second one was a bit naughty. >> they were nasty sometimes. they'd hit us and the parents would come and then the parent would come and they would lie. they brought you to the convent school so you would go to heaven because obviously she was going to hell. >> what did your mother make of your career as it began to unfold. >> the first time she said, you know, cindy, i didn't know. as a kid the nuns told her i should have sung opera. we didn't have money so she was ready to look for better parents. i said, look, ma, i don't think we should go that route. i think we should stick together. i said, hey, it's not important
to me. i'm going to be who i'm going to be anyway. i thought i was -- i was different. sharon told you. everything i said and did and i tried so hard to fit in. i think it's not worth trying to fit in. i think you're different from the inside out or the outside in. >> let's take a little break and talk about other people who are like that. the lady gaga brigade, who i think got their inspiration you. hold that thought. coming back after break and tell me about big mama thornton. ♪ girls just want to have fun ♪ daddy, come in the water!
i will catch you i'll be waiting time after time ♪ ♪ if you're lost and you look you will find it time after time ♪ another absolute classic. these are like part of my life. you had an effect on me, cyndi lauper. but you like that. you like the fact that a lot of people through the 80s and 90s, sort of in their teens or whatever, they just loved the kind of spirit that came with your -- the music, the videos, the whole thing. we all wanted to be in cyndi lauper's gang.
some people want to go the lady gaga route. >> what do you mean? i think she's fantastic. >> there's nothing she does really you haven't already done. from the fashion to the videos. you were there first. >> look, deborah harry there was first and big mama thornton. big mama thornton and ma rainy was known and the gold chained woman. she was doing that in 1904. >> are you a gaga fan? >> there's some stuff i really like and i saw her do this thing when we were doing the viva glam campaign where she did like a george segal sculpture, where she looked like a george segal sculpture. i really love the bus driver. i really thought she looked like the bus driver. but she didn't. she had a motorcycle cap but it
was painted. and that part of it i just love because i always view what we do as performance art. whether it's gaga or nicki minaj or katy perry or me or madonna or annie lennox or deborah harry, it's performance art. >> is part of it the ability to take risks and occasionally fail? i watch gaga and times i absolutely love what she does. other times i think this is completely crackers. but i like the fact that she's constantly trying new things. >> you got to try. what are you going to do, never grow? you know, the younger artists look to the older artists just like i do but you also look to the younger artist. there's new music happening all the time. there's old music to still discover. there's older artists making new music.
music is a great medium. and the great thing about the fact that video happened and the visual happened and there's tv is that we now hear and see it. it is a moving art form. and i think -- i think that's fantastic because i feel like i was born in the right time for it because i love art and i love music and i research everything i do. i don't just show up. you know, maybe i'm not like as a gifted singer as most because i don't -- i can't like just walk in and sing on top of a band. because if i hear something that disturbs me, i can't think. >> but you have got one of the most distinctive voices that modern music has ever heard. you could not be anywhere in the world and when one of your records comes on not instinctively know it's you. and there aren't many singers like that.
>> well, i arrange the music around my voice. >> it's a great voice. it's like a straight dark side of the queen's voice, isn't it? >> i don't know. where is that? >> i don't know. some dark street in queens. >> really? >> because we grew up, mother, daughter, sister, brother house that had shingles the color of good & plenty candy. i always wanted to eat it but now i know what made that color was asbestos. >> when you go back to queens, you must like a heroine. >> i always felt embarrassed. i always tried to learn how to talk and everybody's tried to help me. >> why would you want to change it? >> because sometimes i feel like i could hear the sheets being pulled from the clotheslines.
that's what it sounds like to me. but i don't know. i've tried, though. i have tried. they say you need to relax your mouth and speak softly. >> nobody wants to hear you talk in any other way but this. >> i don't talk like that. >> yes, you do. let's throw politics around because you're little fire brand about everything else and i bet you are about politics. the current big debate is president obama, should he get another go or has he basically blown it? has always the hope that he came into power with evaporated? >> all right. may i show them what i googled? >> this is fascinating. it like, listen, i sell music, right? but i try and make it real so that i can actually really help people and make them feel better. but, you know, you watch the advertisement and you listen to
a speech with the way they talk. here's some fact. when clinton left, we were $127 billion surplus, okay? when bush left we were $1.2 trillion in debt, okay? now that's -- that's a lot of money that got spent and we -- and the republicans, pardon me, were in charge. so now i'm supposed to think -- and of course it's typical, blame the black guy. get the black guy in the worst condition ever and blame him. >> you think it's as simple as that? >> hon, i'm a woman. i know from day one it doesn't matter what color you are, they blame the woman all the time, it's her fault. it's just the way society is. yeah, that i think so. i think he's trying really hard. what is important what i see in
all the political nonsense is on? nonsense. it's all who's vying. it's like why don't you just grow up. it's our country. >> you're sitting in going look at all the wall street protesters. it's people, it americans who want to go back to america. they don't want to be hoodwinked anymore. you know, i'm supposed to believe in your religion? no thank you. you don't want to believe in mine, i don't want to believe in yours. that's no why we live in this country. separation of church and state, you know? i don't want to know anything else. i'm not going to tell you what to believe, dent you dare tell me what to believe. >> you've done an amazing thing for almost every minority group in this country. >> do you know this guy i'm
working with did a give a damn campaign and doing the true colors campaign, we did research and what came back was disturbing, that most of the homeless are kids and a third of them lbgt kids, which means their parents, kicking them out of the house. when does it come to life that your dog -- you can't throw people away, not the little ones. the kid are our future. >> tell me quickly about your own son. he's 14. >> but he doesn't like me talking about him. >> despite your reputation, you've been a very domesticated loyal, loving ways for 24. >> look how cute he is. he's a cutie, my husband.
>> he is. what's been your secret to a lasting marriage and given you're a huge star and that means you've had about 13 marriages in this country. >> i got married late. you see a lot of people, there's a lot people and you know, you have your rocky times and your good times. i have a friend who said you have i don't good times, your bad times and your times can don't know about it. you know, at one point we were coming to bouts and as i said, well, i'm going to, you know, live here and i'm trying to figure out my schedule and i realized that i was looking at my schedule really trying to schedule most of my time with them.
and i love them. and i don't think anything else is better than that. nothing's better than family. and i always wanted a real life. i don't want a fake life. i want a real life. i want to write about real things and i want to live. i sound that like susan hayward movie "i want to live"! >> i want to live and i want to live the cyndi lauper way. it's an absolute pleasure. you have this new dvd coming out. >> you should look up susan hayward. the masters still play. >> it's been a real pleasure. de. i can enter trades on the run.
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you did it. 19 years, baby. i want to thank you very much. that's why i'm telling you first i'm about to retire. love you. talk to you soon. >> that was shaquille o'neal's retirement announcement. pretty hard to imagine he won't be playing this year at all. now he's an author. the new book "shaq uncut." he joins me now.
with all the names you have attracted over the years, super man, diesel, the big daddy, the real deal, the big shamrock and shaq. i like the shaqtus but which one do you like? >> i have a new name that you just gave me. >> which one? >> the big duke. >> in england you would be the big duke or the very big duke. >> that's right. >> how does it feel? you're not playing basketball. >> it feels good. i've been playing 19 years, accomplished a lot. would have loved to accomplish more. but there comes a time in life where you have to do something else. >> did it feel right, the moment to leave? i know it wasn't the perfect scripted ending, but did you feel it was the time to go on? >> it felt right. i left on sort of a sour note. i tore my achilles in half basically, and rehab for that
would have been a year and a half. so you know, at the age of 40, trying to come back and play at a high level probably would have been, you know -- i would have had very, very low chances of doing that. i just decided to give it up after 19 great years. >> taking up golf yet? >> no, not at all. >> that's the natural thing i would have thought for you, shaq. >> i live on a golf course, too, but i haven't played in a while. >> i should imagine you could hit it a long way. get a big bertha out and boom. tell me about the nba strike because for somebody who is not an american watching this great american sport on strike because a bunch of multimillionaires were having an argument with another bunch of multimillionaires over the odd million here or there, it seemed pretty selfish in the middle of a financial crisis. with 10% of people in this country unemployed, i was like, what are they up to, these guys? >> you used the wrong choice of words. the strike is when the workers say we're not being treated fairly and we want to do
something else. the lockout is when the owners say we don't like our deal. in this case, it was a lockout. and both sides made interesting points, but president obama said it the best that if millionaires and billionaires can't come to some sort of a deal and regular people lose their jobs, it will be very, very unfortunate. but they finally got it done. derek fisher did a great job, david stern did a great job. the first game will be on christmas day. >> it will be fun. >> yes, it will be fun. >> what do you think of obama? >> he's the president, and i come from a military background. i'm all about respect. he does a hard job. i wouldn't want that job personally. but you know, i have to show the man a lot of respect because he's the president of the united states. >> i've asked a few guests this. and i'm intrigued by your answer. do you think that having the first african-american president has made america more or less racist? >> i would say less. i mean, dr. martin luther king
had this dream and this dream has finally come true. it's a hard job. there's a lot of people in the world, you can't please everybody. but i think he's doing a fabulous job. the world is in a little bit of turmoil right now. the economy's down. but he's going to pick it back up. he is going to pick it back up. and he's going to win this election. i believe. >> do you? >> i do. >> you're a great entrepreneur, you've made hundreds of millions of dollars. what's gone wrong with the american business model? you worked your way up from nothing to be what you are. what has happened to stop that kind of thing happening? >> i'm not sure. you know, for me there's really two type of business models. people like steve jobs and guys who build their company up from scratch. to me, they are the real businessmen. i came into the business. and your next guy that's coming out here, magic johnson, was the one who taught me how to be a businessman. he was the one -- >> how to expand beyond the sport? >> yes, yes.
he told me it's okay to be famous and okay to be the man and all that. but you want to start owning things. so my view of how to be a businessman is very different because i really consider myself a lucky businessman. >> let's take a little break and come back and talk about your early days. because a fascinating story of how you ever got to be a basketball star and also whether you're going to be sending kobe a christmas card now that it's all over. >> yes. usa prime credit... this peggy... hi, i'm cashing in my points... peggy? no more points - coupons now. coupons? coupons. coupons? next, you convert coupons to tokens. tokens? then you trade tokens for credits. and then i get the cash? then you call back. bye bye.
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back with my special guest shaquille o'neal. shaq, it's a fascinating book in many ways. one thing that's interesting to me is the upbringing you had, pretty tough. you know, your father wasn't around. you had this tough step-father who i think you have great respect for. but your mother was really the driving force, wasn't she, for allowing you to live the dream that you have lived. >> my mother was the driving force.
she taught me how to believe and how to dream. something i call dream for attraction, sort of like the loss of attraction. whatever you think about will come true. my father was very hard. he was an army guy, career army guy. and you know, every spanking i got was deserved. you know, i was a high level juvenile delinquent. if it wasn't for him and his tough love, i could have either went left or either went right. so i owe everything that i am today because of my parents. >> what do you make of these scandals at first penn state, now syracuse with these young kids -- you had been in that position. you had been a young college basketball player and stuff. it's pretty awful, isn't it, what's going on? >> it's very awful. my heart goes out to the victims' families. something that was, you know, very, very awful and shouldn't have happened. >> let's turn to your mate, kobe bryant. i used to love the feud because, a, it made your team almost unbeatable when you were together. and b, you sort of need someone like that to get up in the morning. you want to be better than that.
unless i'm mistaken, it wasn't that you hated him, you both wanted to be top dog. >> i'm glad you understood that. but hersey and blanchard said that styles vary when you're dealing with task or relationships. as a leader i was focused on the task. like you said, we did certain things, we said certain things that made everything excited. like you said, also made us unbeatable. i respect the guy, you know. he's the top laker now. and you know, he's a great player. but when ways in charge, when i was leading, i was always worried about the task and the task was completed three out of four championships, that's it. >> who was the best player you've ever seen? >> i have to go with michael jordan. but sometimes that's an unfair question. because the next guy coming in here, magic johnson, he was a great one, too. so was larry bird, kareem, bill russell, wilt chamberlain. >> very important people that said you were the most dominant player. the key thing, physically imposing, dominant. there's never been a player like you. lebron james, the most
dominating force to ever play the game. >> my parents always taught me to make people remember your name and be different. i'm not the most skilled guy, i'm not the best shooter, but i wanted people to remember me. so i just used to impose my will, impose my force and that camera guy right there used to be under the basket. >> really? >> yeah, that man right there. >> we have all the best quality people here, shaq. >> that's right. >> what i wonder about you is do you ever go out and people pick a fight with you? >> no. >> i couldn't imagine it ever happening although some kind of weird suicide mission. >> that's because people know that i'm very likable and i'm a funny guy. i can take a joke. >> more to do with the fact that you're seven foot tall and could pummel them to pieces? >> a little bit. people seeing me on tv and from seeing me on tout, they know i'm a funny, likable guy.
you say a crazy joke with me, i'm going to say something back both laugh and take a picture and move on. >> a fascinating book, amazing story with the exception of your births and kids and marriage and so on, what is the one moment you'd relive again, the greatest moment? >> all of it. >> give me one. i've got five minutes i can replay. >> i'm very blessed to have two loving, caring parents. i always tell people if i had it to do over again, i would do it exactly the same way. because my father gave me the ability to learn how to think, to learn how to program, to learn how to navigate. so i would do it all the same way. i had a great childhood. i was able to just sit back and dream and i met great people like magic johnson and bill russell or played in the best cities and led parades and get to meet a lot of people. i watch you all the time. so because of how my parents raised me, i'm up here now to be able to talk to a legend such as yourself. >> i couldn't have put it better myself, shaq. >> that's right. >> thank you very much.
you're slightly higher up the legend ladder than me. but it's been a real pleasure. a great book. you have to read this. it's a really inspiring tale. >> all right. it's getting better, my accent. >> it is better. you're getting to be like a cockney, a cockney duke. another legend after the break. magic johnson. a moment 20 years ago when he shocked the world. new perspective on a dreaded disease. ♪ [ electronic beeping ] [ male announcer ] still getting dandruff? neutrogena® t/gel shampoo defeats dandruff after just one use. t/gel shampoo. it works. neutrogena®.
on the scourge of this era, hiv and aids. since then he's become the poster boy on how to live with that disease and how to thrive. joining me is magic earvin johnson. >> thank you for having me. >> 20 years ago you made that incredible press conference. i remember watching it live like many millions around the country being completely shocked because at the time there was this great stigma about hiv and aids. there was this kind of terrible fatalistic sense that you only had a few months or even a year to live. here you are, you're 20 years later. you look supremely fit and healthy. how do you feel about still being around? >> well, first of all, i've been blessed. god blessed me. the medicine's done its part.
my support system, my wife, my kids, they've all helped me to be here 20 years later. but when you think about 20 years ago, people thought it was a death sentence. and i've done everything i was supposed to do to be here 20 years later. then i think early detection saved my life as well. we found out early. i got on the meds right away. i had great doctors in dr. hull. so it all just came together for me. that's why we urge people all the time to get out and get tested because early detection -- back 20 years ago there was only one drug. now there's over 30 drugs that can take care of you and prolong your life. >> what's the reality of living with hiv. aside from the medications you have to take. how do you keep as healthy as you appear to be? >> you take the drugs twice a day, but i work out every day, besides working out, taking your drugs, i really believe is your frame of mind. how you deal with it, how you accept it now you have to live with hiv. and a lot of people don't accept it well. so they don't do well. but i think that -- from day one
i accepted my new status. i just said, you know what? i can live a long time. dr. hull kept telling me if i do all the right thing i can do, taking my meds. so it definitely changed my mind-set and attitude, but at the same time it didn't change who i was. i love life and i love living. i'm going to keep my smile on my face and that's what carried me through. >> to world aids day. on decembers 1st. what was the overriding message you'd like to communicate on this particular anniversary. >> i think to continue to help people understand this disease hasn't gone anywhere. then the disease is really affecting those people of color, especially in the african-american community. so it's really affected our community in a big way. and 20 years ago when i announced everybody ran out and got tested. now i think they're sort of asleep on hiv and aids again,
and we got to wake them back up to know that this disease is still deadly. there's no cure out there. so we must get out and get tested, go back for our results and continue to fight discrimination as well because some people who announce they have hiv get discriminated against, and we got to stop that. the main thing is get the meds to the people's hands who need those meds and if we can keep it affordable it's really going to be important. the government must continue to do their part, too. funding of different hiv/aids organizations. >> when i look at you and hear you talk and you seem so vibrant and full of energy and when you see shaq who just retired after playing for the entire period since you retired the 20-year period, do you wish, knowing what you had now, do you wish you had carried on. >> shaq is so amazing. he's probably -- i think he's
been the most entertaining dominant player we have ever had and great for the game. if i knew what i know today i probably wouldn't have never retired. but at the same time, i was uneducated. i didn't know. so i made the right move because i wanted to be here a long time for my wife and kids, as well as just making sure that the virus didn't attack my immune system. because if i played that 82-game schedule, the doctors felt it would attack my immune system. >> were you more shocked by the people who supported you at the time who you didn't expect to, or were you more disappointed by those who you thought would that didn't. >> i think i was more shocked at the people who did support me because i think that at the end of the day, even when i wanted to come back to the nba a couple of players came out against me
that they didn't want to play against me. that was the most shocking thing. people in the streets on around the country and the world i was shocked they supported me as much as they did and i was happy. i think it was just the players who said they didn't want to play against me. >> you mentioned shaq has been one of the great entertainers, but i want to talk about who's been the greatest basketball player . he says michael jordan. let's hear what you think. including you. haven't seen me.
that was with you with larry bird. he beat you out for rookie of the year. that must have annoyed you, didn't it? >> i am still mad today. i will be mad at anything that larry has over me. we have that rivalry. i love larry, though. he's my guy, but we play today i'm going to try to beat him today. 20 years i will try to beat him
and he will try to beat me. >> it was interesting to talk to shaq. clearly the rivalry with kobe, i understand that. if you are a professional sportsman you want to be number one and if you are in a team, a small team of people and talented by different sets of fans to be number one in the game there's going to be rivalry, isn't there. >> no question. when you think of it i had a rivalry with michael jordan and larry bird, doctor j, all the guys that played when i played shaq on from kobe to win a championship and kobe went on to win a championship. >> who was the best, he says michael jordan. who is the best you have ever seen? >> michael jordan was the best hands down. at the same time bill russell was the greatest winner. shaq is probably the most dominant. >> is shaq the one you want to least play against i imagine you have shaq bearing down on you
and can't be many worse moments in sport. >> he's the one i would love to play with. i would have a lot of assists playing with the big diesel. but shaq, you don't want to play against shaq. not only was he big but he was light on his feet. and he was probably the best passing big man, him and kareem were the two best passing big men that ever played in the game. >> let's talk about this, i call it a strike. he called ate lockout. whatever it was it was a squabble with a lot of rich people at a time when fans were losing their homes and jobs and so on in the economic crisis. what was your overview of the whole thing. do you think it was inadvised it happened at all in the current client. >> when we look back at it we wish it didn't happen from the owners and players side. it was a strike that we wish could have been avoided.
but let's look at it like, this we have happy basketball is back on christmas day. we are happy now those that serve the soft drinks and the parking lot attendants and the mom and pop businesses that are ai around the arenas they are happy because the strike hurt their business and the people that hurt in the arenas. >> it was a bit selfish it seemed to me. >> you are fighting over money. you are fighting over the best deal. and it was but at the same time i am happy it don't the whole year. i am happy it is moving past us and getting on the basketball and nba basketball. >> what's the one basket that you scored that if i can give you a minute of your life back you would do again. >> 1987 the hook shot versus the celtics. >> even i know that and i'm a -- fan. >> that one shot will be the best shot ever. >> how often do you think of it? >> all the time. >> every day. >> not every day but all the time. once a month or every two weeks you think about it. re