tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN December 12, 2012 1:00am-2:00am PST
to trauma. additionally, i can confirm that the shooter is dead of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. by all accounts, there's no rounds fired by law enforcement in the mall today. >> no rounds -- >> no rounds fired. >> we'll take all questions at the end. >> no rounds fired by law enforcement today in the mall. again we're wrapping up our search of the mall and releasing everybody at the scene. we have a lot of work to do as far as gathering witness statements before everybody is released from the scene. i'm asking for family and friends to still be a little patient before we get everybody released from the mall. if you have questions contact the sheriff's office. i'd like to introduce the pio for the sheriff's office. >> i've been in contact with the mall management. they have said that they are going to be posting information
for businesses, employees and customers who were affected by this incident on their webpage. you can find it on the internet. the mall is going to remain closed for the rest of this evening and as long as the police investigation goes on, it will remain closed as well. we do not have a timeline for that. people who have stuff left inside the mall, check the clackamas town center webpage for information on how to get it back. your property is secure tonight. the process will be developed on how to get that back to you. >> a lot of people watched this unfold and in a moment you'll hear from a barack obama who was there with a baby who says a last minute decision to stop briefly some perfume may have joined her life. first i'm joined by another witness who was there along with his two daughters and grandson. what did you matter, what did you see? >> i heard the sgugunshot,
something that was falling i thought. we were in a clothing store and when i walked to the front to see what was going on, i seen a couple laying on the floor. and i went over to them to see if they were all right. that's when i heard somebody say there's somebody shooting. so i caulked over to those people and they were all right and he got up and he said he ran that way. and nefs black. and when he said that way, it was toward the food court area. and i seen a lady that was laying in front of best buy store that sells like cell phones and stuff and she had been shot in the chest. and i couldn't get her turned
over. >> you you went over to her. >> yes, to see if she was breathing, and she was not breathing. >> were there still shots going off at this point? >> no. no. there were people saying he's coming back. he's coming back. but no. i didn't hear any gunshots. i was out two seconds after i heard the last one go off, but by then he was clear at the other end of the mall. >> he was no longer shooting at this point? >> i didn't hear anymore gunshots while i was out there seeing if these people were okay. no. >> do you have any idea shots n total, you may have heard? >> i'm going to say like 12 -- 12 to 16. >> and the woman you saw with the apparent gunshot wound to her chest, was she the only injured person that you saw?
>> yes. >> at what point did police show up, or how did you get out of the mall? >> i stayed there until a showed up. a lady showed up saying she was a nurse and she knew what to do. her and another lady helped to get her turned over. we had to clean the glass out of the way, of course, and they started chest compressions immediately. and the nurse was cutting away her clothes and she seemed to have it from there. like i said, the lady was in grave danger. not good at all. >> it is an incredibly nice thing for you to do to go aid somebody rather than run away. i appreciate you being with us. thank you for taking the time to be with us. i'm glad you and your family are safe. >> you are welcome. >> i'm joined by lou palumbo, director of elite intelligence and protection group.
at this point, it seems clearly one shooter, multiple gunshots. the shooter killed by a self inflicted gunshot wound. sounds like the person he saw was one of the people who died. what do you make of what you heard? >> well, you know, an incident similar to one in aurora and virginia tech, similar to one in texas a&m and, you know, just mentally defective people who have the ability to obtain firearms they shouldn't be able to obtain and using them as a vehicle to express disdain. >> we don't know the motive or if there was a target this person had, if they were a disgruntled employee or what the motive may have been. we will have to wait and see on. that we are joined by two people who saw the kimmer just before he opened fire. thank you for joining us. megan, what did you see?
>> jenna and i walked to the restroom after we walk in to nordstroms. we had just gotten there and jenna pointed out there was a guy in a halloween mask and she was that weird but living in portland you see weird stuff like that all the time so i didn't think much of it. >> you say a halloween mask. what did it look like. >> like a freddy versus jason, hockey-type mask. he was scaring kids as we walked in to the bathroom. >> what do you mean, he was scaring kids? >> like he had his mask on and was lurking toward them going -- ah! and they looked like a group of middle schoolers. >> this is in the nordstroms. >> this is after we walked to the food cour, in the food court restroom area. >> what was he wearing, do you know? >> dark clothing, all black.
>> then what happened? >> then we went to a shop called tilly's and it is a zumi style store. we heard a sound like something metal hit the ground in the main area of the mall and we saw one of the shots fly by that was 25 to 30 feet away from where we were. >> did you hear shots? >> they echoed. tillys is diagonal from the clackamas mall. it didn't take us long in to walk in to tillys and then all of a sudden the shots started to just firing. we heard probably ten shots before we got to the back of the store. once we realized what was going on, the people from the store quickly grabbed every customer and were rushing them to the back in to their stockroom and having everybody sit there silent and making sure everyone was out of the store and safe. >> this may be a dumb question,
but when you saw him, you said scaring kids, was there a weapon visible? >> no. he was just like spooking them. like you go to a haunted house and they jump out at you and make silly noises or -- just kind of like get adrenaline going. we thought it might have been one of their weird friends who liked to wear costumes or something. >> you said he was wearing dark clothing. some early reports indicated he may have been wearing body armor. did you witness anything of that? >> no i really didn't. there were couches in front of him and people sitting on the couches. i didn't really -- i didn't get enough to identify who he was. i really didn't think twice of it because i just never thought i'd have to think about him again. >> there had been another eyewitness who talked to a local affiliate koin who said she witnessed the alleged shooter jogging through macy's with an assault rifle.
are we talking about the same store here? >> this is where it gets kind of crazy. this is megan, by the way. when we were in the back stockroom there was somebody on the phone and they said one of their friends was in the mall and there were supposedly a second shooter. so, we asked her to describe him and she said he was just in a hockey -- not a hockey mask but a ski mask and we said that is weird because we saw somebody in a hockey mask. we don't know if there was one or two shooters or what happened. they stopped filling us in once we were evacuated two hours later. so i don't know if another story you got is about a second shooter or not. >> the police are saying at this point they believe there was one shooter. are you sure the person you saw scaring kids is the alleged shooter? >> i mean it was the only person we saw in a hockey mask in all black clothing.
>> it is kind of fishy. they said he began in the food court. so it would just seem rather strange if it was somebody else in the same outfit and mask. >> right. is the macy's, is that the same as nordstroms? >> no, sir. >> it is a different department store. that's what i assumed. >> nordstroms is i believe -- >> nordstroms is like down -- macy's is on one end and clear on the other end is nordstroms. >> okay. do you know what time you saw the person scaring the kids. >> like 3:05. >> 3:05. do you know approximately what time the shooting began? >> i would say around 3:15, 3:20. >> so there was significant amount of time between the person scaring kids and when the shooting began.
>> 15 or 20 minutes in between. >> and when you are in the situation it is like time doesn't feel normal, i guess. it seemed like after we had seen him at one end it was a few seconds afterwards but there was a little bit of time. >> have you both talked to police yet? >> yes. >> clearly, police have knot put out saying anyone who witnessed anything to please talk to police. >> yes. >> jenna and megan, i appreciate you talking to us. we are trying to piece it together the best we can at this hour. appreciate you taking the time to do that. >> of course. >> with me is rick bella, staff reporter. i don't know if you heard what those two women were saying but they said in around 3:05 they saw someone with a friday the 13th jason mask scaring kids at nordstroms. and my understanding is the
shooting began at 3:29 or so. that's the report i had. what are you hearing? >> it is possible although those that's not what i heard. a witness told me that a man wearing one of those jason masks shoved right past them just before the shots rang out. that would have put it around 3:20. >> was that person in the food court or in the macy's. >> outside of macy's entering from the parking lot, pushing by a salvation army bell ringer with a gun in his hand and he was wearing a mask and then the shots were virtually right afterwards. so it's possible he was inside before and pulled those other shenanigans but it doesn't make sense. >> yeah. there had been another eyewitness who talked to koin that we aired earlier said she also witnessed a man in a white mask running or jogging, i believe she described it, through the macy's.
she said she clearly saw the weapon and it was out once he got outside of the macy's he began to open fire. i'm not sure how what we just heard from these other two, how it fits in. again, i guess there must be security cameras all over this mall. the police will be able to figure out how this person got in, how long he was on the scene for and if, in fact, he was in the nordstroms earlier at 3:05, as these two are saying they witnessed somebody and somehow went and got a rifled and ended up going in macy's. have you heard any eyewitnesses who saw him take his own life at this point? >> no. we haven't heard that. in fact, police at first told us he had been neutralized. when we asked if what that meant, they later said he died
of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot. >> in terms of the injuries, what are you hearing the early report is two are dead and third person is the alleged shooter that is dead and one traumatic injury and a number of lighter injuries. >> yes. that was it. one person is listed in serious condition at ohsu hospital which is a trauma center and maybe a half dozen others with lesser injuries. >> rick bella, appreciate your reporting. you have been following it all evening long. we continue who to bring you the breaking developments we will talk to a man who was close enough to the gunman to hear what he was talking about. >> hi. >> hi. you know, i can save you 15% today if you open up a charge card account with us. >> you just read my mind. >> announcer: just one little piece of information and they can open bogus accounts, stealing your credit, your money and ruining your reputation. that's why you need lifelock to relentlessly protect what matters most... [beeping...]
helping stop crooks before your identity is attacked. and now you can have the most comprehensive identity theft protection available today... lifelock ultimate. so for protection you just can't get anywhere else, get lifelock ultimate. >> i didn't know how serious identity theft was until i lost my credit and eventually i lost my home. >> announcer: credit monitoring is not enough, because it tells you after the fact, sometimes as much as 30 days later. with lifelock, as soon as our network spots a threat to your identity, you'll get a proactive risk alert, protecting you before you become a victim. >> identity theft was a huge, huge problem for me and it's gone away because of lifelock. >> announcer: while no one can stop all identity theft, if criminals do steal your information, lifelock will help fix it, with our $1 million service guarantee. don't wait until you become the next victim. you have so much to protect and nothing to lose when you call lifelock now to get two full months of identity theft protection risk free. that's right, 60 days risk-free.
use promo code: gethelp. if you're not completely satisfied, notify lifelock and you won't pay a cent. order now and also get this shredder to keep your documents out of the wrong hands-- a $29 dollar value, free. get protected now. call the number on your screen or go to lifelock.com to try lifelock protection risk free for a full 60 days. use promo code: gethelp. plus get this document shredder free-- but only if you act right now. call the number on your screen now!
i was on the elevator and we didn't know what was going on and we started crying on the elevator and tried to escape and it was scary. it was shocking experience. >> probably an understatement. as horrible as the scene was, things could have been worse. there are reports, as you heard earlier, the killer's weapon may have jammed. a full clip was found at the scene. austin patty works at macy's and says he saw the killer up close and heard him speak and heard him say as if he was introducing himself, i am the shooter. thank you for joining us. when did you first see this person? >> say that one more time, anderson.
>> when did you first see the alleged shooter? >> after the salvation army man, he actually came in. the reports were correct earlier about that. he came in and the salvation army is like he has a gun and i turned around and look and i see him, the white mask, hockey mask and a big assault rifle. i'm like oh, my gosh. >> this is in the macy's store. >> it was at the south entrance. there's a chipotle outside and the salvation army ringing the bell. it was a normal day. >> so someone from the salvation army -- one of the salvation army guys came in and said this was a gun. >> it was an older man that i rode the bus with and met him last week. we had a connection. he said the man has a gun and i turned around and there you see it a man running with a ski mask and bulletproof vest and gun. >> you are saying he had a
bulletproof vest. what kind of vest. >> like teflon, like -- like the sheriff would wear, you know. >> was he wearing -- what kind of pants? what color pants, do you remember? >> like black. like black levis. he blended in besides the hockey mask and gun. >> i have heard the people describe the mock hockey mask as well. >> like jason, the old-school hockey mask, the two eyes and mouthpiece. almost like it shows, it forms the lips but it doesn't really. >> at what point had the shooting already begun when you first saw him? >> no. he was running. i was close to the door. i was right by the exit, near the exit. as he was running. he was sprinting in as if he was doing a 100-meter dash or something. >> at what point did you hear him say something?
>> when we ran down the hall. it felt like in the moment a lot was going on. but time slowed down for me because i had to process the fact there is a guy running in clackamas macy's with a gun. i felt all of my senses were aware. i heard "i am the shooter" and five or six rounds echoing. i could tell it was outside in the actual mall. it probably would have broke glass. it was a rifle. like "call of duty" gun. >> you believe he said i'm the shooter. >> i believe so, yeah. another person heard it around me. i am the shooter. >> have you talked to authorities yet? have you talked to the police?
>> i have not talked to the police. when i tried to see if i could get my stuff in the mall downstairs, they said i couldn't go back. they are busy trying to lock down the fort. it was overwhelming. >> yeah, of course. now that i think about it. i'm home. i can't believe this happened. i moved to portland to be safer. >> so you know you should talk to the clackamas sheriffs department. they very much want to talk to you because they put out an appeal who anyone who saw or heard anything to call them. it may be hard to get ahold of them by would urge you to do that because you may have some information they want to know and they said all the belongings are secure for the evening and calling the clackamas sheriffs department you can get your items back. you heard him say this and how quickly did the shooting begin. >> so fast. he said i am the shooter and all you heard is boom, boom, boom. like bombs.
like little md 80 sounds. shooting slugs. >> did you see him shoot? >> i didn't. i could tell by the noise. he was far away. >> and then what happened? >> at that point, i ran. i ran down to target. i was out of that -- my co-workers and salvation army there was a u.p.s. guy coming in. there's just been a shooting. i am like let's run. i jumped up and down, we got to go. i didn't know if he was going to turn around and shoot at us, you know. i didn't know what he was going to do. he came in to clackamas mall with a big rifle. he could have done anything. >> do you have any sense of how many shots you heard? >> oh, yeah, i sat there and as i was running i stopped. i heard at least five, at least five at that moment of time before i made it out the door. >> were you able to get out quickly?
>> oh, yeah. i was gone. i was running like adrien peterson from the vikings. >> austin, i appreciate you talking to us. i urge you to call the clackamas county sheriffs department because they would very much want to talk to you. appreciate you taking the time and glad you were able to get out of there okay. thank you, austin. >> thank you so much. >> joining us is a former police officer and security consultant lou palumbo. again, in a case like this, oftentimes eyewitness testimony can be wrong, it can be mistaken. we are trying to talk to as many people and piece this together. but it is interesting the number of people we have heard who saw this man going through the macy's clearly with a rifle and this mask. >> yeah. not uncommon. one of the unfortunate things with these investigations you line up ten people and get ten
stories. in this instance there is a common denominator. the mask and the fact he was armed and his demeanor in the store. it is another pattern of what we have in society today. i hate to say this because i'm a proponent of the second amendment but not the indiscreet manner we are able to obtain weapons of this type and no little or nothing about the people that acquire them. part of the investigation is where the weapon came from, how he acquired that weapon. oregon is a fairly liberal state with firearms. i'm not sure it is class three state where you can have full automatic rifles but i don't believe there is an assault rifle ban in that state. number two, this configuration of rifle doesn't have to comply with an assault rifle. if you remove a muzzle breaker, bayonette lug some are obtainable in certain states. they are reclassified. still have the same capability of firing 30 shots and to tell
you something interesting there are magazines made for these that will fire 100 shots. they are called beta mags. >> we have one report and it is unconfirmed the gun may have jammed. a deputy told the oregonen they have they found full magazine on the ground. this was an earlier report from an eyewitness who said as many as 60 shots. most of the witnesses put the number in the 10 to 20 range. >> it poses an interesting question. if the weapon did malfunction, if it fired, failed to feed or extract, how did he self-inflict the gunshot wound? they are going to find out if he had other weapons on his body, handguns. >> that's the other question. police are saying he did kill himself and that's how he ended up dying. what is not known, people want to know is motive. whether or not this was, you know, whether there was some sort of statement he was trying to make.
whether it was a deranged person, whether this was somebody targeting somebody at the mall. a disgruntled worker we simply don't know. >> they will key in is there any relationship between the shooter and the victims. this may have been a depraved act of someone making a statement in a rather altered mental and emotional state. >> lou palumbo appreciate your expertise. later in the program, other breaking news to talk about. north korea says it launched a missile hours ago. they say it was successful. we know they launched it. they are saying it was successful. we can't confirm it. it flew over japan. how will the international community respond? the latest fallout just ahead.
north korea says the long range missile launch was successful. they said they picked up the launch immediately and are analyzing all of the related data. north korean says the goal was to put a scientific satellite in to orbit. united states and south korea say it is a cover for tests ballistic technology. monday, north korea said a technical glitch would delay the launch until this month. the international community got an unwelcome surprise. north korea says the launch was to put a satellite in orbit. they say it was successful. the international community believes it is a cover story for ballistic missile test. what's the latest you are hearing from seoul?
>> a half hour ago, north korean television held a special broadcast. it is unusual for them to do this and we had a news reader from north korea who was jubilant and excited in announcing this rocket launch was a success. and also announcing the satellite had entered pre-set orbit. of course north korea has claimed success in the face of failure before. we need to wait for official confirmation. we understand that the united states and south korean officials are working closely to try to figure out whether it is a success. as far as the north koreans are concerned, they say it was. obviously often they do announce things for domestic audience. we have had confirmation here from the south korean side the blue house which is the equivalent of the white house, presidential compound saying they condemn this launch saying it is a clear violation of u.n. sanctions.
it's a challenge and threat to peace and stability not only of northeast asia but of the world. the blue house has also pointed out the money spent on the rocket launch would be better looking after the people of north korea. a few days ago we had a figure given from with one of the ministry who said the rocket launch, building the space station could have cost $1.3 billion and apparently according to the unification ministry that could affect the people of north korea for four to five years. what the blue house is doing is to spend the money on the people not the rocket launch. >> amazing it cost that much. >> i saw one report that the u.s. was surprised of the launch came tonight. what are you hearing from the pentagon? >> they had eyes on in the whole time, u.s. satellites, u.s. ship radars were in the area. but, in fact, this is becoming in the last couple of hours a little more complex than first anticipated.
u.s. intelligence official tells cnn now it does appear that north korea completed all the launch stages. so this official is not elaborating yet on whether that meant the rocket went in to orbit. we have talked to other officials who have confirmed to us at this hour they are still scouring u.s. military, u.s. intelligence through all of the data, all the u.s. satellites data trying to get confirmation, if you will. in other words, u.s. satellites and u.s. intelligence to be able to confirm whether north korea did launch a satellite, a third stage of the rocket in to orbit. that's the key right now. that's what they are trying to figure out. i'm told this is becoming a tougher problem than they originally anticipated because part of the trajectory flown by the north koreans didn't exactly go where the u.s. anticipated it
would and they had to go back and look at some other data. it just tells you how complex it is before they can actually come out and confirm it. we expect to hear more throughout the night. right now i think it is fair to say the u.s. is trying to figure out what has transpired here. >> obviously this is a hugely important region for the united states, not just japan and south korea allies, thousands of troops along the border of north and south korea, with that in mind, explain the significance of the launch. why should people care about this? >> why should we care about this? it is a long ways away for home for so many americans, but the north koreans are very determined to send money, as paula said, to develop a long-range missile program. they want that program, those missiles someday to be able to carry a nuclear warhead and they want to demonstrate they have the capability to reach out thousands of miles, potentially japan, philippines, hawaii,
alaska. they have the stated goal of wanting that intercontinental ballistic missile range. when you marry that up with a nuclear weapon with, even the threat of this destabilizes the region which of course is a real economic powerhouse nowadays, isn't it? china, the rise of asia in the world economy. this is not a place that anybody wants to see this kind of security destabilization, if you will, and the u.s. has spent many years trying to work through the chinese to get to the north koreans to try to convince them to back off of this effort, but it looks like they have no intention of doing so. >> barbara starr appreciate your reporting tonight and paul hancock as well. and two new offers on the table. w?
more on the shooting outside of portland coming up. first raw politics. late new developments tonight. two new offers on the table, one from the white house, a counteroffer from house republicans and the details are sketchy. the white house offer includes $1.4 trillion in new tax revenues. democratic source says the tax hikes are paired with a serious spending cut number with real entitlement reform. we are hearing negative reaction from one gop aide saying 1.4 isn't progress in this late game. less is known about the gop counteroffer at this hour. we know president obama and house speaker boehner sat down for a no cameras meeting over the weekend. the competing offers come after
both sides aired sharp differences on the house floor. watch. >> where are the president's spending cuts? the longer the white house slow walks this process the closer the economy gets to the fiscal cliff. >> where are the revenues? where are the revenues? regardless of the cuts or changes of entitlements more is demanded in terms of what seniors would have to pay in to a medicare and what age that would happen. while the republicans refuse to touch one hair on the head of a the wealthiest people in our country. >> when it comes to taxes the top senate republicans said it was time for his party to give in and move on. >> what the president is trying to the achieve on the top two tax rates, you know, he can get by doing nothing. the law is certainly stacked in his favor.
>> sharing the view a tax increase is all but inevitable. senator coburn is joining us now. you have said the tax rates are going up on the wealthiest 2% of americans. it sounds like more republicans are coming around to your way of thinking. i understand you have been talking to republican colleagues about supporting this and insisting spending cuts. what level of support is there among your colleagues for a deal like that? >> actually what you heard isn't accurate. i haven't been pushing this at all with my colleagues. my colleagues will be making a decision based on what they want. i'm not trying to lead on the effort. mine is a realistic assessment. the law is such that it is that rates will go up. the question is will we keep them from going up on everybody or will we keep them from going up on everybody except those above $250,000. that's the law. >> so for accuracy sake you are
not going around trying to rally supporters. >> not at all. >> you are not having conversations with your colleagues about that? >> no. >> you said you prefer rate hikes to capping deductions why is that. >> because you can lower them again in the future. there isn't an economist in the country that thinks that raising taxes will help our economy grow. you have a quote that we will get somewhere around $70 billion a year out of this. but we're not going to get 70 billion because people will change their behaviors. we will get much less than that. that change in behavior will be less capital flow in to job creation. it is a negative thing to do. i understand the politics of it but it is a negative thing to do. >> for you, does any deal have to include cuts to medicare, medicaid and social security? >> well, why wouldn't we want to fix the real problems in front of our country?
there's no deal. the fiscal cliff is a misnomer. we went off the fiscal cliff a long time ago when we doubled the size of the government in the last 11 years and when we gave increased benefits in medicare without creating tax revenue source to pay for it. the question is not medicare, social security, why would you not just address the issues facing our country and the very things that are going to cripple us if we don't address them? ann and saving medicare, guaranteeing that benefit to people in the future out to be important. we have 3 million people this year that are going to go in to medicare and three million the next and the next. >> what leverage do you think republicans have to force and get a deal? >> i don't know. i think, again, that's washington speak for politics, rather than policy. again, i think we ought to raise it another notch up. shouldn't we be having the president of the united states with the leaders of both houses of congress come together and say what are the real problems in the short term and long term
facing our country. should we not be about addressing those and about decreasing the massive growth of the federal government in areas that aren't making any difference and the gao has $200 billion a year of that. >> why isn't that happening? that is rational and reasonable. >> there is no leadership at the presidential level or in congress. >> simple as that? >> i don't know of another explanation than people to stand up and say i think our country is worth saving and playing politics for the short-term political gain may help in the short run but in the long run does tremendous damage to the country and to the confidence of government in our country and tremendous damage to those that we want to have confidence in, who's going to loan us the next trillion dollars this year.
>> my question is, why aren't you trying to convince your colleagues to come around to see it the way you do? you said there is no leadership on capitol hill. >> it doesn't matter what i think about the details. what does matter is about the process and the policy. what i would tell you is people are playing to the media rather than to the future of the country. the thing that is unique about our country is we have cheated history several times. we have been at very low points. i'm not sure we are going to cheat history this time. because the short-term political gain is more important than the long-term future of the country and to me that is very disturbing and i smell a hint or odor of us ultimately failing because we don't have quality leadership. >> senator coburn, appreciate you being on. >> you bet, anderson. more on the latest in the oregon small shooting. the latest developments ahead. we'll be right back.
i work in a kiosk in the mall. and people scattered like crazy. we waited for a second and people at the stores were opening doors for us to get in. ushering everyone in there. >> shaken eyewitness describing the scene hours ago at an oregon shopping mall. as we have been reporting the gunman killed two people before shooting himself. there's a lot we don't know. but one thing, a woman says she was at the mall with her 6-month-old son and i spoke to her a short time ago. when did you realize something wrong was going on?
>> after two shots were fired and everybody started to hit the ground is when i knew something was very wrong. >> did you see the shooter at any point? >> no, i did not see the shooter. after the shots were fired, i have a baby, i have a 6-month-old baby and he was in my arms when i was looking at the perfume and two shots were fired and everybody looked around and was confused. and then more shots were fired, about five, six, seven and everyone started to hit the ground and i started to get on the ground but there were more shots then. so i threw my baby in to the stroller and just started running because everybody was screaming and everybody started to run and then i finally got out of the mall and i had forgotten where i parked.
so i was just standing there, oblivious and somebody said i needed to run because the guy is still at large and he could be any one of us. so some lady picked me up and took me across the street. i came home and i turned on the news and i find out that the gunman was right outside of macy's and headed toward me and my baby basically. after his rifle had jammed, he came right in to macy's and i think if i hadn't stopped to sit and, if i hadn't stopped to smell that perfume that maybe me and my baby wouldn't be here today. >> kyra, i understand you are incredibly upset. you said his gun jammed. where did you get that information? >> that was on the news. >> okay. >> he had pointed at a woman and then his gun jammed.
>> we should point out that is an unconfirmed report. there had been some reports about that. how are you holding up, kira? >> i'm okay. every time i talk about it, i relive it again. it is very terrifying and i just am just thinking in hindsight how lucky i am and i know we have an angel with us today because i was so close. we were so close. >> do you have any idea how many shots you heard in total? you talked about two shots and then five to seven. >> 20 to 25. >> 20 to 25. listen, i can't imagine what this is like for you and i wish you the best and so glad you got out safe with your baby. thank you so much. >> thank you so much.
>> we will continue to learn more information throughout the evening no doubt, about this shooting. we are following other important stories. isha is here with a 360. the united states officially recognizes the syrian opposition coalition. he was asked in an interview with barbara walters. >> do you plan to recognize the opposition and give them some legitimacy? >> we made a decision that the syrian opposition coalition is now inclusive enough, is reflective and representative enough of the syrian population that we consider them the legitimate representative of the syrian people in opposition to the assad regime. >> the obama administration also said today it is formally designated the al nusra rebel group. a major gas line exploded in west virginia. there are reports of multiple fires.
a portion of interstate 77 had to be shut down. no word on any injuries or the cause of the blast. anderson, it's a good week if meteors are your thing. this one fell over edmondton alberta in 2008. the comet could produce a meteor shower anytime between now and friday. this is the first year the earth's orbit will pass the comet's debris field. you can get a glimpse of the meteor shower expected to peak on thursday night. that's my gift to you. >> thank you very much. we'll be right back.