tv CNN Newsroom CNN April 2, 2013 8:00am-9:00am PDT
they've got the skills, they've got the time, what they don't have are the jobs. so naturally, they are suing. all that is coming up in a moment. first, it's been almost four years since michael jackson died while under a doctor's care for insomnia. and that doctors is now in prison serving a four-year term for involuntary manslaughter. a brand new trial is about to get underway, next hour, in fact, in los angeles. it is a civil wrongful death trial that hinges on just who exactly employed dr. conrad murray. jackson's family says it was the promoters and producers of a big concert tour that was men to be jackson's triumph and comeback. the promoters and producers say wrong, it was michael jackson himself. cnn's miguel marquez is on the case filing this report. this is it, and see you in july. "this is it" meant to herald
michael jackson's comeback. ♪ >> reporter: like so many things in jackson's life and death, it's been a super-sized trial. reports the jackson family seeking from aeg as much as $40 billion for the wrongful death of the 50-year-old king of pop. reports that the jackson camp denies. >> the jury feels the family deserves $40 billion, that's what they're going to get. i can tell you no demand has been made by the jackson family for $40 billion from aeg. that is just not true. ♪ >> reporter: at the center of the trial, who hired dr. conrad murray, found guilty in 2011 of involuntary manslaughter for injecting the insomniac pop star with a lethal dose of the anesthetic propofol. >> what do you think as his mother caused his death? >> i don't know. all i know is they used propofol, and they shouldn't have used it.
>> reporter: the plaintiffs, jackson's mother catherine and his three kids, blame aeg. the lawyer says there was never a signed contract, and murray who was never paid anything served only at the pleasure of michael jackson. >> if you look at the draft explicitly, he was chosen there by michael jackson to be there at michael jackson's behest. michael jackson was the only one who could get rid of him at will. >> reporter: possibly testify, jackson's 16-year-old son prince michael and his daughter paris. also on the list but not expected to testify, the artist prince who had his own history with aeg. musician quincy jones could take the stand to testify how much jackson could have earned if he had lived. [ cheers ] >> miguel marquez joins me live. also we're joined by "in session" correspondent jean casarez. miguel, i want to begin with you. so often these cases can be won or lost in jury selection which gets underway today.
so with that as the backdrop, who are we expecting to show up in court today, and what are we expecting to actually see? >> yeah, we're not expecting the jackson family to show up, first off. the lawyers have started to come in already. and we're expecting a lot of jurors to come in to fill out paperwork to see who might be available in the county of los angeles to serve for the two or three months that this trial might take. it is a very long time to be in trial. they'll come in today, fill out paperwork, and then the -- the lawyers will question them, probably not today but sometime down the road. ashleigh? >> and i just want to get clear here, jean casarez. exactly what does there case hinge on? >> well, there are a number of allegations, negligence on the part of aeg, fraud, intentional and negligent emotional distress. but it comes down to the family of michael jackson is alleging that aeg which was responsible for this huge tour actually was
the one that employed and paid for conrad murray. and because of that, they were the employer so they should be responsible for his actions. that civilly they caused the death of michael jackson. that they knew or should have known or should have been foreseeable that conrad murray, being so much in debt, was so in need of $150,000 a month that he would do anything so that michael jackson could take the stage. there's a critical e-mail, ashleigh, that the plaintiffs are definitely going to rely upon which is from an aeg official to kenny ortega. and it was after conrad murray did not allow michael jackson to go to rehearsal 11 days before he died. and the e-mail states, "you tell mr. conrad murray that we, aeg, are the ones that pay him, not michael jackson." >> do you know what, i have that e-mail -- >> and he has responsibility, and he knows what that is. >> let me read it verbatim. "we want to remind murray that it is 'aeg, not m.j., who is
paying his salary. we want to remind him what is expected of him." and an e-mail on the day that jackson announced the tour is specific. "m.j. is locked in his room drunk and despondent. he is an emotionally paralyzed mess, riddled with self-loathing and doubt now that it is show time." miguel, with that, that sounds pretty pointed and pretty specific where evidence is concerned. but there has to be the counterargument where aeg is concerned. what is it? >> well, aeg is going to come back with everything. they're going to come back with everything from the mall -- molestation trial in 2005, they're going to try and prove that michael jackson is a guy who had a death wish essentially. that this guy hired dr. conrad murray himself. he had a history of drug addiction and abuse, and it was his own fault that he died. >> jean, just the fact that we
have a guilty verdict in a criminal trial already, you know, that's pretty powerful stuff going into a civil trial you would think. tell play in heavily? >> sure it is. sure. aeg is going to rely upon that. of course you're talking about the involuntary manslaughter conviction of conrad murray. they are going to see that breaks the link there. they have no civil responsibility at all for the death of michael jackson. they will blame conrad murray and the personal responsibility of michael jackson who they say will hire -- did hire conrad murray. >> all right. jean cassar as and miguel marquez -- jean casarez and miguel marquez, thanks for the insight as we wait for hearings to begin. by the way, dr. conrad murray will tell his side of the story in his first television interview live from jail. it's an "a.c. 360" exclusive beginning tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on cnn. fascinating that he would do that just as a civil trial is to get underway. you'll want to hear every word. good chance we may hear those
words played back in court. if you ever sit on a jury, remember this -- one major slipup could cost you and could cost the taxpayers millions. the defense in the jodi arias murder trial says that juror number five committed a major no-no. you just don't talk about the case, period. and if it's true, it could impact her and could impact the entire process. #%tia[ okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow.
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[ male announcer ] engine light on? come to meineke now for a free code scan read and you'll say...my money. my choice. my meineke. over a million dollars already spent on jodi arias' defense, not to mention 40 days since the trial began, and all of this could be for nothing because of one single juror. the defense in this case has now filed a motion for a mistrial saying that juror number five did something you just can't do as a juror, period. shealliedly talked about the -- she allegedly talked about the case in front of her fellow jurors. the court gets back underway in an hour and a half. i want to get straight to ted rowlands and "in session's" correspondents on the case, jean casarez and beth karas outside the courthouse in phoenix. jean, let me begin with u. do we have any idea what she is
alleged to have actually said in front of these jurors? like if it's damaging or if it's reversible? >> we do not know because it is sealed. but we have to look at the motion that they filed. and i think we can read between the lines. and it appears as though when the judge was questioning jurors on whether they had seen the prosecutor sign autographs, that another conversation evolved. and it appears as though maybe other jurors said that one of their fellow jurors had made some comments in front of them. that is what i read in this motion. we don't know what it is, but they quote the supreme court saying that you cannot conduct any misconduct with a juror, any tampering with a juror will not be allowed. that leads us to believe it is conversations. >> so beth, i mean, is this -- is it a case of it doesn't matter what you say, just the fact that you say anything at all shuts down the whole process? or is -- can this be repaired?
can we save this extraordinarily long ordeal that we've all engaged in up till now? >> it probably is a matter of what you say and how many of the jurors heard it. they've already done their fact-finding mission. that is the judge has already questioned all the jurors individually. i think that there's just a matter of her deciding it now because they probably know everything they need to know about whether or not other jurors have been affected by whatever this comment is that number five made. one of the seven women on the jury. i don't think there will be a mistrial. that is a drastic remedy. if there is a remedy that is short of dismissing the entire panel and starting this case all over again, as you say, it's caused well over -- cost well over $1 million at this point, then the judge will do that. and i not the remedy if -- and i think the remedy if there is one is to remove juror number five. remove anyone who heard it -- they're not affected, they can decide, they make up their own minds, number five isn't going to tell them what to do.
i think -- and because this is a death case, the judge -- not just this judge but all judges take things a little -- a step further in protecting the rights of the defendant not to create an appellate issue. i think there's a good chance she will be dismissed. she's a note-taker. she puts a lot of questions in the jury basket. she's a very active juror. >> let me throw up facts that we know on her. juror number five is a white female, she's in her 30s. she's married. i don't know that this is significant, but what we can tell about you since we know so little -- know about her is that she has her hair dyed in a unique way. platinum blonde on top with red on the sides and the back. maybe shows that she's perhaps a little more avant guard in her style. but you know, in the end, we just don't know anything about jurors and for good reason. ted rowlands, do we know anything about this process today? are we going to get back on track quickly? are they going to wrap this up quickly and deal with it, or have you sort of been put on standby indefinitely?
>> no, i would assume that they're going to deal with this quickly because quite frankly they are behind schedule. this jury was told when they were empaneled that they should be ready to serve basically through next week. this is going to go o a lot past next week when you consider deliberations. i think they'll deal with this quickly. they've done the interviews, they know what they're dealing with here. i suspect they'll bounce juror number five. a disappointment for court watchers because there's always one juror that everybody watches. and she is it. because not only her hair, but these the one taking notes. -- she's the one taking notes. obviously this is a woman with personality that would have had an effect in the jury room during deliberations. but this is a death penalty case. i don't think the judge will take any chances. i would assume that the juror will be bounced. >> jean cassar as, final question, and i ask with trepidation, sequestering the jury, keeping them away from media, comments in a high-profile or public case, the reason i ask with trepidation is
because we've had experiences like this before. let me go with the o.j. simpson trial. that nine months long, and the jury deliberated in total for -- too it's considered under three hours in the case. nine months of testimony, less than three hours of talking about it. and in casey anthony's case, that was another sequestered jury. 11 hours worth of deliberations. that was more than six weeks of testimony and evidence that they had to boil down into just 11 hours. in both cases, obviously those were very high-profile acquittals. so there is the question -- why wasn't this jursequested -- sequestered, jean casarez? >> i don't know of a motion from either side requesting there be a sequestration of the jury. the judge can bring it up. i know of the judge not bringing it up. it has not been an issue. we'll see if that changes once they start deliberations. i've seen many cases where the sequestration order cancer come into place at that point of time. but you're right, this is very high profile.
this could be a concern and maybe with juror five, maybe everything will be changed from here on out. we'll see. >> all right. ted rowlands, beth care akaras, thank you. a massive amount of blood was spilled after jodi arias allegedly killed him. next, a blood spatter expert will walk us through the crime scene. it's critical to get to the details. he says jodi's story does not add up to the science that he knows, and he has a very different story to tell. stay with us. alright, bring the model in on the set!
at the very outset, jodi arias said she had nothing to do with the murder of her boyfriend, and then came the second account. the second account was that intruders actually killed travis alexander. then the third account was she came clean and said she did it, but she said she did it in self-defense. still, there's something that doesn't sit right with some of the experts that we have spoken with like crime scene investigator joe morgan. he takes hln's ryan smith on a walk-through of the stabbing like you have perhaps never seen before.
the thing that's so telling for me is there is one image that's taken off that camera that's very telling. and that's with travis turned in the shower, hands against the wall, and we see his pristine back. we know there's no injuries in there. this is a completely defenseless position. it's my thought that while he was in a position similar to this, that jodi advanced on him and struck. she stabbed him nine times, nine times between the shoulder blades which is very difficult to do because it's so highly concentrated. in addition to that, stabbed him twice in the neck, then twice in the top of the head. >> what's he doing at this point? >> at this point time he's probably beginning to slouch in the shower, to go to the floor. now, as she advances again, i think that she's still on top of him. she comes forward with the knife. he raises his hands because there are significant defensive injuries. he grabs hold of the blade several times. his hands are cut. and then finally, she stabs him right in the chest, and thissen
tree goes right -- this entry goes right into the venacavea which is, in fact, a legalal blow. >> he's still alive. >> he's still alive. it's going to take a while to bleed out from this. >> let's move to the sink. your thought is he's then moving to the sink. and tell me what happens then. >> this high concentration of blood that we see here on the sink, most of this is very, very passesive blood spatter. we have a grouping of blood here, but what's the most telling is this medium velocity blood spatter that we have that refer to as aspirate. this is consistent with someone coughing up blood and spewing it on to a surface. >> he's standing up, maybe holding on to it, coughing up the blood. >> coughing up the blood at this moment in time. yes. >> then what happens? >> at this moment in time, i believe that jodi has retreated from this point. i believe that maybe she's moved on down the hall because we know that travis makes his way down the hall somehow. keep in mind, he's slowly bleeding out, but he is not dead yet. >> so he is walking down the hall, let's go down here.
and here we have -- let's assume this is travis here. tell us what happens next. >> right. as you can see, travis is laying in a large pool of blood. as a matter of fact, it's so thick that it saturated to to the carpet padding beneath. this blood does not come from the injury he sustained from the vena cava. it comes from the large gaping injury on the front of his neck or anterior aspect. this cut, this cut that has been inflicted upon him actually goes so deep that it cuts both the right carotid and right jugular vein. this causing him to bleed out in this large fashion. >> so put yourself in jodi's position. tell us how you think this might have happened. >> obviously, jodi is in a dominant position over this gentleman. she's either statled him, ma st. she's a tiny woman. the weight of the his body has to help with this deep cut that he has.
after she takes the knife, she place its around his neck and cuts upward like this. and steps back. now all he's got left to do is to bleed out and die. >> so based on what you see of the blood, based on what you see of the scene, her story makes no sense. >> absolutely no sense whatsoever. >> that's just unbelievable -- honestly, that is unbelievable stuff. the stuff you see in primetime television nightly. dramatized. as a reminder, you can watch the real thing, the jodi arias trial will get back underway this afternoon on hln. you can also watch it on cnn.com. shell casings all over the floor. that's what investigators found in the texas home of a murdered prosecutor. beyond that, they're not saying much else. we're going to take a closer look at the case and the possible link to white supremacists next. [ male announcer ] this is bob,
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county, texas, are keeping things close to their vest now in this investigation into the killing of the county district attorney, mike mclelland, and his wife. they were killed over the weekend -- actually gunned down in their very own home. we have been hearing that -- there are a couple of theories. they may have been in bed whether this happened. alternatively, they may have been running from the shooter or shooters involved. last hour, a county administrator stepped up to the microphone to talk briefly, albeit, about this investigation and about the safety of the new interim district attorney. >> i'm optimistic that with the -- there are literally hundreds of people working on this case. and i'm -- i feel like that, you know, i don't know what time frame we're on, but i'm confident that they will find whoever committed this crime. >> is there any concern about ms. fernandez's safety given her involvement in the prosecution of other aryan brotherhood cases? >> well, you know, that's something that really -- i don't
want to get into. i can promise you that all of the people in this courthouse, all of the elected officials, all of the other people that are involved in this investigation are being very well protected. i have no question about her safety. >> and you heard the reference to miss fernandez. it's actually brandi fender who is mike mclelland's first assistant district attorney who's going step in on-- step i on an interim basis. in the meantime, a memorial for mike mclelland and his wife is scheduled for thursday while the funerals are set for friday. investigators are looking into the possible involvement of a gang called the aryan brotherhood of texas. and like other well-known gangs, the crips, blood, ms13, they're known for brutality and violent crime. our deb feyerick has more on the brotherho brotherhood, its roots and violent way of life. >> reporter: they call themselves the aryan brotherhood
of texas, the abt. considered one of the most dangerous gangs in the state with roots inside the walls of the texas prison system. >> i think they are in brotherhood of texas today -- the aryan brotherhood of texas today is arguably the most violent white supremacist gang out there. >> reporter: the abt modeled itself after a california-based prison gang called the aryan brotherhood who were the subject of this "national geographic" documentary. >> while most gangs seek safety in numbers, the aryan brotherhood remains an exclusive crew. only the most cunning and ruthless convicts may enter the brand's privileged rank. >> reporter: inmates in texas asked the aryan brotherhood for permission to start a texas chapter. the southern poverty law center says they were denied membership. we don't know why, but it didn't seem to matter. authorities say the abt followed the california model. >> it is said to be one of the gangs that live by the blood in/blood out code meaning that you can only get into abt by
carrying out some kind of attack. and similarly or so it's said, you can only leave in a body bag. >> reporter: and like the larger aryan brotherhood movement, authorities say the abt's main purpose turned from protecting whites in prison to criminal activities like drugs, extortion, and murder. and its reach began to extend outside the prison walls as more members served out their sentences. abt members on parole are required not only to remain loyal to the gang but also to recruit new members. >> brutal beatings, firebombings, drug trafficking, and murder are all part of abt's alleged standard operating procedures. >> reporter: last november, 34 alleged members of the abt were indicted on federal racketeering charges. more than half of the alleged gang members were operating outside of prison. >> the aryan brotherhood of texas, as one can well imagine, from the name absolutely has a white supremacist ideology.
but the bottom line is that at the end of the day, these organizations are really fundamentally criminal enterprises. that means above all their interest is in green, in money. skin color comes long after that. >> reporter: prosecutors say there are more than 2,000 abt members in texas. 2,000 members who have pledged to unconditionally follow the orders of their gang leaders. orders that authorities say include violence and murder. deborah feyerick, cnn, new york. >> our thanks to deb for that story. by the way, that is just part of the story. up next, i'm going to talk with a former texas prison warden who has his own history with the aryan brotherhood. the battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment
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apparently by stealing the recreation yard -- scaling the recreation yard fence. one of the inmates was awaiting trial having been indicted on charges of capital murder. the sheriff's office in hopkins county, texas, says they're on the lookout for brian alan tucker and john marlon king. as a precaution, the schools in the area are on lockdown right now. officials there are saying they're not sure if these inmates are on foot or if they're in a car. they know one thing -- that they are considered extremely dangerous. we'll keep watching that story and let you know when we get an update. still in texas and back to the kaufman county investigations into the death of the district attorney and his wife there, officials are looking into the possible involvement of a violent gang, you heard about them, the aryan brotherhood of texas. after the arrest of 30 members in november they vowed retaliation against any justice officials who were involved. that happened to involve even in a small way kaufman county. joining me now the phone is terry peltz, former texas
warden, prison warden, and now a prison consultant. thank you very much for joining me on this very distressing topic. i wanted to get your background with the aryan brotherhood of texas. we heard the southern poverty law center saying they don't get any more dangerous than this. it's the most violent gang are. they as violent outside the prisons as they are inside, or do we even know that yet? >> well, having studied them for over 30 years, they are a violent prison gang. i would dispute that they're the most violent prison gang in the united states. there's a lot of research that shows that others are more violent, but in regard to the abt, they carry out their criminal enterprise in a violent way. >> the criminal enterprise, deb feyerick was reporting, has a lot to do with many. people think it might have to do with race, but it's with money. does that square with your experience with these members?
>> well, when gangs form in prisons, they form along ideological lines of racism. but they all evolve into the -- to the economy of the prison. and also when they hit the streets, they involve criminal enterprises. >> and i've heard that there has been a nationwide effort for quite some time to continue a process of segregating these prisoners. and not so much segregating them together in the prisons but segregating them apart, moving them around as much as possible so that a network is more difficult to establish. did you -- were you involved in that, as well? >> yes, we were. and that can be a double-edged sword sometimes. when you move people around, you can tend to strengthen them. that's how texas prisons operate. they do segregate the hard-core gang members. the more disruptive groups such as the texas seneca and mexican mafia, aryan circle and brotherhood of texas. >> what was your reaction when
you heard not only the first killing of the assistant d.a. but then the secondary followup to the d.a. himself and his wife? did you immediately think -- i think know who's behind this, or are you more suspect of the they're? >> i'm more suspect of the theory of the aryan brotherhood being involved directly or indirectly because that's not their style. they may threaten officials, that's part of their -- their dogma. they're more involved in the criminal enterprise than making money. this would be a giant leap for them to -- to kill public officials. in my study of them for 30 years, this is not what they do. there's some grumblings going on amongst the abt community saying we had nothing to do with this. and i tend to think that's probably true. i think the cartels were more involved to come in like thieves in the night and do their business. i think there may have been some disruption of a meth package or
meth shipments being interrupted going to mexico. this doesn't pan out to be the type of activity the aryan brotherhood does. >> i do appreciate your expertise on this topic. and perhaps we'll have a chance to talk at length as the investigation continues. terry pelz, thank you very much for that. i want to go back to the story on the inmates that escaped from a texas jail. one awaiting trial on charges of capital murder. these are live pictures. i'm going to see presumably of the rec yard. the concern was that they had escaped from the rec yard, scaling one of the walls. you see the larger area. obviously officials are going to be trying to cover this at this point with a rail line nearby. always a concern, as well. and a major artery of traffic, as well. you see from the helicopter shot courtesy of ktvt, one of the areas of hopkins county where sheriff's deputies and presumably now a wider array of
officials are going to have to work pretty darn hard to try to find these. i cannot tell you what this concentration of vehicles is right now. we can tell you obviously from uniforms that it's law enforcement. but those are the two gentlemen on the right side of the screen whom are the targets of a search underway now with the hopkins county sheriff's office. brian alan tucker and john marlon king. and as we mentioned before, because of the concern about the danger of these inmates, they are considered to be very dangerous. schools in nine areas, nine different schools are now uno lockdown. and there's no knowledge about how they got away. whether it was on foot, which means they may not be far, or by car or rail, which may mean they are quite a long way away. we'll continue to watch that story. again, live pictures for you in hopkins county as law enforcement continues to patrol and scour for those two escaped inmates. there's been so much talk about lately regarding banning guns that a town in georgia,
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atlanta, gave final approval to an ordinance that's modelled on a 30-year-old law in another georgia town. and it reads as follows, i'll quote -- "every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm together with ammunition therefore." there are exceptions to the rule in case you're wondering. for felons, probably a good exception. the mentally ill are exempted, the physically infirm. and then of course the exception for people who just don't want to comply. that's fascinating. police say they aren't intending to go door to door for gun checks either. so what do you suppose the point of all of this would be? city council says deterrence. >> light when you have -- like when you have security, the adt in front of your homes, we're protected by an alarm or whatever. >> victor blackwell doing that interview. and it is time now to bring in my attorneys, both of whom happen to be georgians, carrie
hackett, criminal defense attorney on the left between me and judge glenda. judge glenda hatch set a former juvenile court judge and emmy-nominated tv judge. carrie, i'd like to begin with you. this sounds toothless with all the exemptions added to the final exemption, if you don't want to do it, you don't have to. honestly, what would that point be? even when you say deterrence? >> i think that this is -- you're right. it is absolutely toothless. nobody needs to comply with this law. and i think on a grander scheme, on a grander scale, there's going to be a problem with enforceability of any law mandating gun ownership because we all have an expectation and a constitutional right to privacy in our own homes. how are they going to enforce this? >> how would they? they say they don't even plan to really go door to door. judge hatchet, what about the other town that's been doing this for a long time? did it have an effect, the desired effect, crime's down? like having the adt sign in your window? >> i think it's all political posturing. i think it's craziness.
how can -- i read the ordinance this morning actually. i figure thursday must be some fine print -- figured there must be some fine print i'm missing. there is nothing this allows them enforcement, and in fact the city council people are saying we don't even plan to enforce it. i think it's posturing. i don't see any value of this law at all. you can exempt out and all exceptions you talked about, and there are no penalties, very importantly in the ordinance. it doesn't say what happens if you break the law. >> it's odd. here we are talking about it. that's one thing. okay. carrie, judge, hold those thoughts. i've got more tapping of your brains in a minute. people in charge of kids turning themselves in to police. and the charges are corruption and racketeering. these are our teachers and administrators. it is the latest in a cheating scandal that's rocking the public school system in atlanta. and atlanta is not necessarily where this problem ends. [ male announcer ] if she keeps serving up sneezes...
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answers on tests and falsifying the results all to make it look like their schools were actually improving and doing better than they actually were. listen to the story of one mother whose daughter failed one reading test only to pass a second and more important test with flying colors. >> she said to mrs. hall that she needed help for her daughter because she was having problems reading. again, she was presented with the same response that her daughter was simply someone who tested well. her child is now in the ninth grade and that child is reading at a fifth grade level. >> that is so distressing. now there's concerns that this is not just in atlanta. it's happening all across the country. already the evidence is starting to pile up, too. want to bring in former juvenile court judge, glenda hackett and
attorney carrey hackett. when i read the charges i thought i mixed up the stories conflating something the mob was doing with something these people are accused of doing. racketeering, theft, making false statements, these are extraordinarily serious. and at least the former school superintendent could face up to 45 years. this doesn't sound like the mafia kind of crime, yet it looks like it on paper. what am i missing? >> that's right. these racketeering laws were designed to cut down on people ordering other people to do things that are illegal and then circumvent the responsibility or consequence for doing those acts. this is a case where beverly hall, the superintendent here in atlanta, did seemingly order or encourage teachers and other administrators to do things that have created yes far-reaching and long lasting consequences for children that now have
trouble reading, writing, doing basic mant. these are children that cannot be product everybody citizens without those skills. it's a big deal. >> judge hamp etchett one of th pieces of evidence that will make it into a krcourtroom in o of the dozens of cases presented the district hired a private detective and that p.i. was part of the staff witnessing, writing notes, turning things over to investigators. is that what you call in the business a slam dunk or can you defend against something like that? >> i think it's going to be very hard to defend against this. i have to tell you, i'm a for of the atlanta public school system, this is very painful. i've been watching this. i know this case inside and out. i will tell you that these are -- i looked at the indictment neeps are se indictment. these are serious allegations. when you have a private investigator hired by the school district filed a written report, written report, and no actions
were taken allege le, that's part of the whole conspiracy piece and racketeering and to carrie's point i agree. it does read like a major drug deal. but you have to remember there are large bonuses. the school, the former school superintendent got $225,000 extra because of the improvement of these false test scores. this is very, very serious. >> you know what? i want to add, when i say atlanta ain't the end of this thing, arizona is looking into problems, detroit, baltimore, ohio, arizona, california, colorado, florida, many seeing there are a lot of erased marks corrected into the right answer as opposed to made into the wrong answer which is a real red flag. i i think it's the tip of the iceberg. a lot of school districts will be watching these cases. >> undereducation, the justice department has studies on
this -- >> whole other day. whole other conversation and a good one to have. thank you to both of you. those ladies went to law school and passed with flying colors. others go to law school dreaming of high profile jobs and big fat salaries the jobs they get, folding shirts at macy's, testing software, not paid much. now they're mad and suing.
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thinking about going to law school, you might want to consider this -- if you struggled to pay back over $100,000 on average in loans, your first job after graduating may just be waiting tables, or something that has nothing to do with the degree you just got. now some graduates are mad. and they're fighting. according to "the los angeles times," dozens of law grads across the country have banded together and joined class-action lawsuits against 18 schools. there are allegations these law schools are hyping the success rate of their grads in fining a full-time job as lawyers after graduation. all of this, of course, coming at a grim time for job prospects for lawyers. our recession and the resulting drying up of the jobs caused law school politics to plunge. a study found that only 55% had law related jobs and that's nine months after they graduated. joined again by former juvenile court judge and tv judge, glenda
hatchett who found wonderful work since graduating and defense attorney carrie hackett, alive and well in the job market. here's my question, carrie, first to you. i know you can sue for anything in the united states. merit is a whole other kettle of fish. do you see these students have merit going after their colleges for making false promises? >> they have to prove that the colleges actually intentionally misled them, that there were acts or omissions taken by the colleges to mislead those prospective students to cause those prospective students to decide to go to law school and that was a good idea for them. i think that the issue with the prospective student and the statistics is really that in the past the law schools have shown statistics that show the students if somebody is employed in any capacity, whether a law-related job or nonlaw related job they show that as a
full-time employed graduate. and that is just not the case. those students are under employed the law school graduates are employed in other positions nonlaw related and that's a big, big problem. >> judge hatchett, anything different if i'm going to choose a university to say choosing a gym, if a gym tells me i'm going to get skinny, if i go there, don't i have to do my own research? isn't it caveat emptor across the board? >> they can reasonably rely on statistics but what's happens is the american bar association has changed its standards of how law schools have to report it. so it can include part time, it can't include full time jobs now that don't require a law degree. you're seeing now a change in these numbers. i think that it's reasonable if you get a catalog or go online you ought to rely on those numbers. but you