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tv   Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown  CNN  April 19, 2013 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT

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a police officer. sean collier was just 26 years old. and we also remember and should always remember the three people who were killed in monday's bombings. 29-year-old krystle campbell who went to cheer on runners at the marathon every single year. family says that krystle was sweet and kind, always smiling. martin richard, who john talked about, just 8 years old. a third grader, a kind-hearted boy who loved the bruins. and lingzi lu, a graduate student studying math and statistics. we remember them tonight and moving forward. we will remember them all. live coverage continues all night here on cnn starting with erin burnett "out front." and good evening, out erin burnett live tonight in watertown, massachusetts. behind me there was so much celebrating going on, there still are fire trucks that go by, police cars going by, and people coming out on the streets to celebrate them. that has been the mood here tonight. we also want to show you as we
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talk about -- we'll be joined by people who watched what happened today. people who saw the scene, people whose homes were searched, saw people go into handcuffs, saw the sharpshooters, what happened, that the world was watching happened here today. we'll talk to the people who saw it. i also want to show you the first images that we have in of dzhokhar tsarnaev being arrested and treated at the scene. this is the picture that we have. as we put it up, i want to tell you what we're looking at because it can take a second to orient yourself on the picture. he's lying on the ground. you see the line of his jeans, his underwear sticking out, his bare stomach. above where you see the policeman you see his bloodied face. that is the only pictured we have as he was getting ready to go to the hospital where he is right now being treated tonight. this is what happened today -- a watertown, massachusetts, resident out on a walk, out on a walk -- this all came because of a tip. he saw blood on a boat in a neighbor's back yard. then, in the words of this tipster, saw a man covered with
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blood under a tarp. that resident then called police. the police responded, and hundreds of shots were fired through -- immediately when they responded on this. police used a robot -- [ gunfire ] >> to pull the shrink wrap off the boat. from helicopter they used heat imaging technology to see that indeed there was a body in that boat. they did that actually from the heat monitoring imagery up on a helicopter. the suspect was alive. they realized that because of the thermal imaging. they captured him. he was taken to the hospital in serious condition. there's an image, you see, through the ambulance window this we have. when that happened, there was cheering by police, celebrations by the boston police on twitter and then immediately celebrations by people here in watertown and around boston. crowds cheering "u.s.a., u.s.a.," a moment of true elation and jubilation for so many people. [ cheers ] >> you can hear a little of it now. when anybody goes by that's
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affiliated with law enforcement, you're getting that celebration heaval heeven here at 11:00 eastern standard time. and we have susan candiotti and more on scene. susan is standing with me. tell me exactly how it happened. when i hear about that, that they had a hnelicopter and saw the thermal imaging, it is incredible how they did this. >> amazing. even the minutes leading up to, it standing right on this spot. when the first gunshots were heard and then all of a sudden, all of a sudden you saw building -- you saw police vans going by, and going -- they were going by so quickly that the back doors were flapping open, and it looked as though the s.w.a.t. team had to hold on for dear life. they went zipping over to the scene. then yes, it all happened because someone saw something and said something. noticed that tarp. it looked unusual. they were out for a walk, saw the blood. they used a robot, you know,
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using modern technology, to remove the tarp. imagine that. and then from up ahead, massachusetts state police used thermal imaging to determine that in fact there was someone in there. they brought in flash bangs at one point where you pop, you make a noise to see if there is movement that would cause them to move. eventually they moved in and made the arrest. they said he was bloodied, but they believe it was injuries from last night. >> right. that's important to emphasize. they say that's from injuries last night. drew weather and traffic can you tell us about the shots? i know that you -- there was a moment today when you and i were both on television, and you literally had to thrown your ifb where you can hear our control room out of the ear because the shots started happening behind you. >> reporter: it was right after the news conference that said basically he got away. the whole scene here was, you know, downsizing in size and in nervousness and excitement. [ gunfire ] >> reporter: we were all kind of disappointed. then all of a sudden shots,
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shots ringing out. and the whole scene changed on a dime. just hundreds of police cars, s.w.a.t., everything, ramped up again and tore down the roaded to where this event took place. it was an amazing switch of emotions here. >> brian, you heard the negotiations going down, and i know you literally at one point climbed up on to a roof nearby to see what was happening. >> reporter: that's right. before we got on the roof, we had actually snuck pretty close to the scene through back streets, alleys, parking lots. and at one point, we got to probably about 200 yards away from the boat where dzhokhar tsarnaev was holed up. we started filming that, we saw them flood light the boat. we heard police talking to him. we could clearly hear a couple of the phrases they were saying. they said, "we know you're in there," they said, "come up with your hands out." they said, come out on your own
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term." they would light that boat, they woulded inlig ed ied i ed ied i it. at that moment after we filmed that, we were rushed by police saying how did you get back here, you've got to get out of here, you're in the crossfire area. they shuttled us out and kept yelling to get out of thereof as we pushed further away. then we snuck up on a rooftop nearby and we didn't see quite as much as we had before. we saw some activity there, and at that point the scene had calmed down a little bit. it was -- we believe after the suspect was apprehended. there was police activity in the back yard. there were flashlights going on. going around checking. there was a police chopper hovering above the perimeter area there. later we then walked toward the front of the house, when the area had cleared, the perimeter had cleared. we got video from the front of the house from about 100 yards away or so. [ honking ] >> and i'm not sure which of you -- please jump in who knows the answer to this question. we were talking about hundreds
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of rounds of fire. obviously they were trying to take him alive. i know he was also shooting. how much do we know about how that went down? >> reporter: i only know from what i heard. and it i didn't hear hundreds of rounds of fire. i heard about two dozen shots from automatic rifles -- not automatic rifles, automatic weapons. they were that quickly burst together. those were the only shots i heard until the arrest came. but again, we're down the street here. it was pretty quiet when that happened. but that's all i heard. >> and through some of cnn's other reporting, we know that he engaged police even though he had been slightly wounded at the time. he was wounded at the time he engaged police with gunfire. he was doing something inside that boat to try to hold them off at some point. >> you know what's interesting, i'll add that final thing. from where the event took place last night to where he was eventually found, i would say a 19-year-old kid could run that in 10, 15 minutes tops.
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so literally while the police were searching all around here, all day today, all last night, it apparently he was here. >> he was there. and susan, that is what is incredible about this. last night, they said that he ran on foot. but it seemed like -- like drew said, it was right after the press conference, it seemed that they didn't have any lead. they were sort of saying people can go back about their business. the implication being we don't even know if he's in watertown. he may have left the dragnet. >> it's interesting to note. this is still playing out. we don't have all the details yet. they did indicate in a news conference and they did have lead, and certainly we were here through the day. they were looking around, all over the place. we're switching out microphones here. in any case, they spent hours and hours going from neighborhood to neighborhood, and they were looking to see whether he might be in this house or that neighborhood. and we would get as close as we could to see what they were doing and were shooed back each time. as it turn out, there he was.
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i know the woman who lives next door told our elizabeth cohen that in fact no one had checked around her house this day. but it turns out that one person going out for a walk spotted him in that boat. and really it was -- it was just after they had been made an announcement that it was okay for everyone to be out in the street. but still to be very, very cautious because it was still a very dangerous situation. and it was only after that that drew reported hearing those two dozen gunshots. and our producer, as well, david fit patrick, and everyone went sailing down the street quickly. and that's when the whole thing unraveled. >> unraveled. and what was amazing is some of the earlier reporting, brian, our deb feyerick, was saying they believed him to be in a structure. this is how they were saying it as the news was breaking. a structure that he could have had access to without having help from an aaccomplice or anyone else. i know that that's still an open question that they're trying to
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determine, if anyone else at any point was involved. but you have to think, brian, of how those moments went by last night in the middle of the night in the dark when he was fleeing and he jump into a boat. >> reporter: that's right. and you know, i was talking to my team as we were kind of making our way away from the scene. there's a very good chance that he could have been in that boat for much of the day because when they were going through the houses in that neighborhood, they were doing a thorough job. we interviewed a man whose house the s.w.a.t. team members combed through. when he showed what they were looking for, they -- they combed through just about every inch of every house in the neighborhood. so if they weren't finding him then, there's a good chance that he was holed up inside that boat for much of the day. >> all right. thank you very much. brian todd, susan candiotti, drew griffin, our reporter on the -- reporters on the scene. an incredible day to be a part of and witness and ending the way that it needed to end. >> never seen anything like it. and how this community has
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reacted, as well. and of course, we must never forget the victims. the victims. >> the victims tonight. three of whom are still in critical condition, 58 of whom are still in the hospital. as we know, four people were killed. i want to bring in jeff beatty now who joins me. jeff, former counterterrorism expert for the fbi and a consultant now for the army. joining me from the other side of boston. jeff, this went down, it would seem to be in a textbook fashion. the public rose to the occasion. the fbi put out exactly what they needed to put out. they captured the suspect. they captured the suspect alive. we don't know his condition tonight. but at this point we know that he is alive. this is how it should be done, isn't it? >> you're absolutely right. and when people do the look back, not to steal julie's word, but the after action report what we need toum pro improve upon a sustain, we'll look at the activity by the police
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department and all those involved. will be talked about as an excellent example of how to get this done. they were deliberate. and yet when they needed to move with speed and dispatch, they moved with speed and dispatch. when they finally had the individual kind of in a known location, they decided to hold up, no rush. he wasn't going anywhere. and they let the proper specialized unit and equipment get in place so they could have their choice of whether are we going to finish this in dark not and make everything dark, we going to use lights, and they did the smart thing. they talked him out. now we have an opportunity to learn more and help prevent the next incident. very well done. >> and i can confirm now we have just learned that the suspect, dzhokr, is in serious condition. short of critical condition, in serious condition now. across boston, also, there is a memorial going on tonight. and these are the -- near the finish line, a few blocks from the finish line of the boston marathon where three people lost
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their lives, three people who were there that day are still right now in critical condition. 58 people that day of the nearly 200 injured tonight still in the hospital. there's an impromptu memorial happening a few blocks from the finish line. that is what we've seen around broader boston. here in watertown, celebration, people -- people feeling euphoric. there's no other word for it. and it feels like a sense of camaraderie and togetherness. something i've really never experienced before and was honored to be part of when i came out here. mike sullivan joins us, former acting director of the atf. mike beatty was talking about the operation, that is seems as if it was -- it was executed perfectly, even down to the point that they were able to apprehend the suspect almost -- a little after, but really in one day. >> sure. obviously you have to give them a great deal of credit for the tremendous work that they did in a short period of time. i know everybody was anxious about it, everybody was nervous about the fact that he was out
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and not apprehended. but law enforcement did exactly what they were supposed to do. and that's obviously to capture him. and they captured him a live. >> what about the technology? susan candiotti reported that they had a helicopter with thermal imaging ability. that's the most important thing. a regular person made it happen. then they had the helicopter that was able to determine that there was someone in there. >> right. and they've trained for this. they've trained in terms of search, they've trained in terms of rescue, they've trained it in terms of going after a fugitive. i'm sure law enforcement realized that he was likely injured during the shoot-out the night before. and that there might be evidence out there that actually could help lead them to him. and obviously blood evidence appeared to be one of the tips that, you know, one of the civilian witnesses saw. >> that's right. they said our understanding is that the injuries that you saw were inflicted last evening. that's our latest understanding. again, we have a lot of questions still tonight.
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i want to add fran townsend to the conversation with jeff and mike. fran, what is your feel being how this happened? with the world watching and the united states facing something that it has not -- something like it that's been successful, as you look at since 9/11, and everything came together the way it needed to. >> you know, erin, i think i can summarize it best by saying i was in the studio when the capture happened. and i got a text message from a friend and former colleague in saudi arabia saying, "congratulations, our hearts are with you." the whole world watched us and watched how we reacted. this of the law enforcement at its finest. it was the teamwork -- mayor menino tweeted "teamwork" when he shook hands with governor duval patrick. and that's what the world saw. we were not cowed. we were not crumbled by it. there was a sadness and a memorial as you mentioned and
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shown the pictures and names of the victims. but they only inspired us. >> yes. >> it's the best of what really is the united states. >> it seems that way. mike, one other thing to emphasize here. you know, there's been talk even from the father of the suspects who, you know, didn't believe in their guilt. was not confident, didn't believe in the u.s. justice system, that they managed to take the suspect alive. and that means they're going to get incalcuably needed information. are you innocent until proven guilty and that's important. >> capture him alive will help from the law enforcement perspective, you know, to determine whether or not there -- anybody sells like-minded that could pose great risk or harm. if he died in terms of the capture, they would still find out a lot of information, as well. having him alive becomes very important.
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>> yeah. i want to go chris lawrence now. as you all know, just a moment ago i mentioned that we learned about the suspect's condition. he's at beth israel hospital in boston. chris, what do you know? >> reporter: that's right. we're standing right outside beth israel hospital. he was brought here a short time ago. when we first got on the scene, we saw an ambulance pulling up near beth israel flanked by ten motorcycle officers. almost a caravan escort bringing that ambulance in here. if you remember, this is the same hospital basically where his older brother was brought earlier on friday morning. and he died. when he came here and when -- we try to think of injuries he may have sustained, we're hearing that his injuries were probably sustained in that gunfight. in that altercation that happened very early on friday morning. if that's the case, you can look at some of the injuries that his brother had received when he was brought here. he was in cardiac arrest.
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the chief of emergency medicine here said his brother had suffered multiple gunshot wound, as well as what appeared to be an -- injuries from an explosion or a blast. we don't know if the younger brother has suffered those same injuries, but his condition is being described as serious. not critical but serious. and we're also hearing that any updates on his medical condition will come from the fbi, not from the hospital itself. that is a break from normal protocol. normally it would be the hospital that would be updating patient's medical condition. erin? >> all right. and chris, please don't go away. let me go back to jeff beatty and say what do you think the significance is of that, the fbi giving updates. our understanding is at this moment they're treating him as the high-value detainee group, questioning him in the hospital. they're using the public safety exception to question him without giving him miranda
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rights. >> well, i think that the fbi taking this position -- certainly it is unusual. however, i wouldn't be surprised if after a day or so that it slacked off. i think that for the moment the fbi's probably taking that lead role because they want to be able to sensitized -- sensiti ze the public and make sure something is not accidently said. i don't see it as a role that the fbi intends to play out for very long. >> all right. we're going to -- thank you very much to all of you, we appreciate it, fran, chris, mike, we'll be checking in and following up talking about the fbi. the fact that they had questioned the older suspect two years ago. what happened? why didn't they pick up anything then? should they have, and then what happens here legally for suspect number two, who is in the hospital in serious condition
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tonight. all of that, plus the president of the united states speaks tonight after the suspect is apprehended. we'll be back with that. switch your car insurance to geico and we could help you save on boat and motorcycle insurance too. other insurance companies are green with envy. oh, no, no, no...i'm sorry, but this is all wrong? i would never say that. writer: well what would you say? gecko: well i'd probably emphasize the savings. ya know...lose that green with envy bit. rubbish. it's just a reference about my complexion. writer: but the focus groups thought that the... gecko: focus groups. geico doesn't use focus groups. uhh...excuse me. no one told me we were using focus groups.
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the eyes of the world were watching the united states, watching boston, watching watertown, where u.s. law enforcement officials took suspect number two into custody tonight. he is in the hospital in serious condition. the president of the united states weighed in about an hour ago in a speech to the country. i want you to hear what he said. here's president obama. >> good evening, everybody. tonight our nation is in debt to the people of boston and the people of massachusetts. after a vicious attack on their city, bostonians responded with resolve and determination. they did their part as citizens and partners in this investigation. boston police and state police
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and local police across the commonwealth of massachusetts responded with professionalism and bravery over five long days. and tonight because of their determined effort, we've closed an important chapter in this tragedy. i've been briefed earlier this evening by fbi director muller. after the attacks on monday, districted the full resources of the federal government to be made available to help state and local authorities in the investigation. and to increase security as needed. over the past week, close coordination among federal, state, and local officials sharing information, moving swiftly to track down leads has been critical to this effort. they all worked as they should, as a team. and we are extremely grateful for that. we owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to all our outstanding law enforcement professionals. these men and women get up every day, they put on that uniform, they risk their lives to keep us
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safe, and as this week showed, they don't always know what to expect. so our thoughts are with those who were wounded in pursuit of the suspects. and we pray for their full recovery. we also send our prayers to the collier family who grieved the loss of their son and brother, sean. he was born to be a police officer, said his chief at m.i.t. he was just 26 years old. as his family has said, he died bravely, in the line of duty, doing what he committed his life to doing, serving and protecting others. so we're grateful to him. obviously tonight there are still many unanswered questions. among them, why did young men who grew up and studied here as part of our community and our country resort to such violence. how did they plan and carry out these attacks, and did they receive any help.
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the families of those killed so senselessly deserve answers. the wounded, some of whom now have to learn how to stand and walk and live again, deserve answers. i've instructed the fbi and department of homeland security and our intelligence community to continue to deploy all the necessary resources to support the investigation, to collect intelligence, and to protect our citizens. we will determine what happened, we will investigate any associations that these terrorists may have had, and we'll continue to do whatever we have to do to keep our people safe. one thing we do know, whatever heavy agenda drove these phone commit such heinous acts will not, cannot prevail. whatever they thought they could ultimately achieve, they've already failed. they failed because the people of boston refuse to be intimidated. they failed because as americans we refuse to be terrorized.
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they failed because we will not waiver from the character and the compassion and the values that define us as a country. nor will we break the bonds that hold us together as americans. that american spirit includes staying true to the unity and diversity that makes us strong. like no other nation in the world. in this age of instant reporting, tweets, and blog, there's a temptation to latch on to any bit of information, sometimes to jump to conclusions. but when a tragedy like this happens with public safety at risk and the stakes so high, it's important that we do this righ right. that's why we have investigations. that's why we relentlessly gather the facts.
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that's why we have courts. that's why we take care not to rush to judgment. not about the motivations of these individuals. certainly been entire groups of people. -- certainly not about entire groups of people. one of the things that makes america the greatest nation on earth but also one of the things that makes boston such a great city is that we welcome people from all around the world. people from every faith, every ethnicity, people from around the globe. as we continue to learn more about why and how it trage-- an how this tragedy happened, let's sustain that spirit want tonight we think of all the wounded still struggling to recover. certainly we think of krystle campbell, we think of lingzi li, we think of little martin richard. their lives reflected all the diversity and beauty of our country. and they were sharing a great
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american experience together. >> and the president remembering the victims which was something the governor of massachusetts, deval patrick, also did, remembering the victims and thanking law enforcement. want to play you a brief clip of what the governor said. >> on behalf of krystle and martin and lingzi, on behalf of the m.i.t. officer who was lost last night and the transit police officer who was injured, on behalf of the hundreds of people who were hurt by the explosions at the marathon, i want to say how grateful i am to the colonel, to the special agent in charge, rick, to all of law enforcement who worked so well and so hard together, together to bring us to tonight's conclusion. it was a very, very complicated case, a very challenging case. and there are still some questions remaining to be
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answered. as the colonel said, because of that extraordinary collaboration and cooperation by all of the law enforcement resources and assets and, more to the point, people, professionals, who brought their a-game, we have a suspect in custody tonight. i want to thank all the members of the public for their extraordinary patience. their participation in this investigation by reviewing photographs of their own and others that were up through the media, and we thank you for that. and helping us narrow in on these -- on these suspects. they were helpful and patient, and we are grateful for that, as well. it's a night where i think we're all going to rest easy. >> a lot of people are resting easy. and people -- people feeling a sense of relief and celebration, but of course with that horrible sorrow of all the people who are injured and who lost their lives
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with this terrible tragedy this week. john long, state representative in watertown. when i was learning about watertown today, i thought it was amazing that the motto is in the foundation of peace. i thought it was so appropriate given how this has now ended. you know a lot of the law enforcement, a lot of the police here who were involved in today's ending. >> i do, and we're very grateful for the watertown police department and all the officers who were engaged in this fire-fight last night with these criminals. and last night, two of our officers, i think jeff pugolis, timmy menten, joe reynolds, couple guys who were on their way home and heard the call come in on their radios and showed up in their personal cars -- >> this is when the first shoot-out happened last night when they went by the convenience store. >> the first shoot-out. and officer john mcclellan's --e our community, we're proud of
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for all their service and who risked their own lives last night for all of us. we're very proud of them. and it's certainly -- the community at large, today i spent the day at the incident command center. and you know, the governor, mayor menino, ed davis, all there. it was an amazing -- from all of new england, law enforcement showed up all day from all over new england to lend a hand to capture these criminals. and we're just very proud of all of them. >> and you also know the person who lives next door, the person who actually is -- had the boat with -- >> both. >> both. what do you know about this? did they have any idea -- we know a tip came from someone who was walking by. >> sure. and -- what we heard is after the press conference that the governor gave around 6:00, 6:30 when they called things off, a friend -- a member of a yacht club went out to his yacht, saw blood coming from a boat that's still in his yard. and he did call, and that's when
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we ended up finding the criminal. >> from that call? >> from that call. so the citizens of watertown, the whole greater area of be belmo belmont, wall them, came poplar street bridge -- waltham, cambridge, people listened and stayed off the streets. a all deserve an enormous amount of credit. >> the world was watching. there are so many people who want and need and deserve justice who are going to have it thanks to how law enforcement handled this. they were able to take the suspect and take him alive. >> right. you know, i was at the marathon on monday. my sister-in-law ran it. we were all there. it was an emotional day for everybody who ran. the people who went to the marathon. and it's so nice for the families that have been affected that the services that will go on without this black cloud hovering over, that these people have been caught and they've
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been apprehended. so i think it's a big relief to everybody, not only here in watertown, massachusetts, but across the country and across the world. >> all right. john, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we're very, very happy for you. all right. what happens next? that is the big question. what happens here? suspect number two, dzhokhar tsarnaev, in the hospital being questioned now. what happens? is he going to have mir andy right? that's a crucial question what the fbi will chaz to do. i want to bring in paul callen, jeff toobin, and i want to bring mike sullivan back, acting director of the atf. thanks to all of you. can you explain, jeff, what's happening? i want to get the exact phrasing right of my understanding. that the high value designation group is the group that is now going to be able to question the suspect under the public safety exception to the miranda rights. they don't have to read the miranda rights. can you just explain that to me, what that means? >> okay. let's just start by addressing
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the question of is he in any physical condition to answer questions under any circumstances? his health is obviously in grave peril. so this all may be moot because he may not be capable of answering any questions with or without miranda. but assuming he is in don answer questions, the federal government has established a policy that says in certain very limited circumstances, for certain brief periods of time, there is a public safety exception to the usual requirement that suspects have to get miranda warnings. this arises in the so-called ticking bomb circumstance, when there is such an important public safety reason to protect the public that we don't give a miranda warning before we start questioning. now, that apparently is what the -- has been invoked in the circumstance. even in those circumstances doesn't mean he has to answer
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questions. he can simply say with or without miranda, i'm not answering the questions. so we don't know whether he will answer questions. if he does answer questions, it is not clear whether those statements can be used against him. they can be used for leads to identify other threats to public safety. there's no question about that. the legally ambiguous situation is whether any statements he makes without miranda could be used against him if and when he goes to trial. >> and paul, i guess the question off of what jeff is saying seems to be that right now that they are not sure. they had other people they were questioning today. they're not sure if there was anyone else who possibly could have been involved directly. therefore, that's why they would use the public safety exception. and once they could ascertain that that was not the case, then they would go ahead and do this through miranda right, right? >> yeah. i also wanted to touch on what i think is the biggest public misconception about the miranda
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case that's caused by television. when i counsel my own clients -- as a matter of fact, one was asking me the same question they always ask. do you know what it is? hey, they didn't give me my miranda rights, is the charge going to be dismissed? people think you don't give miranda right, you have to dismiss the charges. that is not at all true. all the miranda decision says is that you have to be advised of your right to have a lawyer, and if you confess after that, that confession cannot be used if they didn't advise of your rights but you can be convicted on other evidence. there's a ton of other evidence in this case. i don't think the miranda argument is particularly important in the end. they'll convict him if he lives. and if they don't give him miranda warnings, maybe they'll get more information about if there are other individual involved in this conspiracy. >> do you think that's part of it? other individuals involved? as someone who's been in the situations before, how big a
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concern is that, of the decisions tonight? >> sure. it's not about getting additional evidence against him. the public safety exception is to find out whether or not there is explosive devices out there that would cause some harm to the public -- >> which they're worried about. they don't know where all the pipe bomb went. >> sure. it's an absolute right to use the public safety exception in these circumstances. or is there an act of conspiracy beyond him and his brother. that's important for law enforcement to get to the heart of that as quickly as possible. >> that's an important point. we've been talking about, you know, they thought during the day that he could have some of those pipe bombs with him. that he and his brother were using last night to throw out the car window. they weren't on him. i don't know if they have found all of them. they were doing controlled detonations this afternoon. but it's unclear -- what sentence, if convicted, what's the sentence? when you look at the state versus the federal, what would -- would this be life, death, what would it be? >> this is a very interesting legal issue that has not been settled. one is the federal government can clearly prosecute him for
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this acted of terrorism which can -- this act of terrorism which can carry the death penalty in federal court. the massachusetts law, massachusetts does not have the death penalty. an issue that has never been settled is can the federal government obtain a death penalty and enforce the death penalty in a state that doesn't have the death penalty. that's -- that's a legal issue that may be -- may be raised by this case if federal government decides to proceed with a capital case. >> you know, erin, there's a certain irony in this case on the death penalty also. and that is the last imposition of the death penalty by the federal government in the united states was to timothy mcveigh in the oklahoma city bombing. >> yes. >> so the last really major american terrorist who was tried in an american court and convicted, timothy mcveigh, got the death penalty. so it's very rarely given in the united states. even by the feds. >> final word, mike, you would say --
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>> the federal government can clearly pursue the death penalty. they pursued the death penalty in massachusetts when i was serving as united states attorney. they secured a death penalty sentence. so they can, and they should be pursuing the death penalty against him. >> mike, jeff, paul. appreciate you taking the time. we're live here in watertown tonight. yes, it has calmed down. there are a couple of people here who are just blocks away from what happened today who were searched, who were with the police. they're going to tell you what happened in those crucial hours before suspect number two was taken into custody. we'll take a brief break and be back live. combwith state farm,to saved 760 bucks. love this guy. okay, does it bother anybody else that the mime is talking? frrreeeeaky! [ male announcer ] bundle home and auto, and you could save 760 bucks. alright, mama, let's get going. [ yawns ] nap time is calling my name. [ male announcer ] get to a better state. state farm.
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all right, i am back live from watertown, massachusetts, where suspect number two is apprehended right now at beth israel hospital in serious condition. our chris lawrence is there and has some new video and understanding of what's happening. chris? >> reporter: yeah, when we got here a good while ago, this is what we saw -- you can take a look at this video. basically it was an ambulance streaming down the street right in front of beth israel. we saw it turn into the hospital. it was basically being led down the street by about ten motorcycles. now we cannot say with certainty that the suspect was inside that ambulance. but we do know that he was taken here to beth israel as his brother was earlier after the shoot-out. when we think about his injuries, we think about what the boston police chief said earlier tonight when he said that the injuries were likely received during that initial gunfight on early friday morning
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wh . when they found him he was covered in blood. if you think about how his brother was injured, when his brother was brought here, he was in cardiac arrest. he had multiple gunshot wound, probably injuries from a blast or explosion. seems that his younger brother's injuries may not be quite obviously as severe as that. but again, if he was injured in that gunfight, that means he had about it 4 hours of being on -- 24 hours of being on the run with those injuries before being brought to the hospital. >> that's right. very unclear what will happen. as chris says, a big difference between being in serious and being in critical condition. and the suspect number two is in serious condition. i'm joined now by two people who were here today in watertown. the scene that the world was watching. you were eyewitnesses to much of what happened last night and today. cass and sean, thanks to both of you. i know it has been a long day. and it began, cass, last night.
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you and your wife were dead asleep. right before 1:00 in the morning, you hear the shots? >> yes, ma'am, 12:50, we heard five very loud noises, rapid successions, followed by "come out or" and then five more rapid succession shots. we figured at that point it was automatic handgun fire. >> and did you think at this point this is related to the boston marathon, or were you not sure to make the connection? >> it was absolutely in the back of our mind. we got on the floor in the bedroom and tried to strategize what to do next. >> i want to talk about what happened. sean, first, you were just two blocks away, right, from everything that happened. >> yes. i was. and so basically i heard three loud explosions basically and then gunshots after that. it was obvious from the police presence that it was more than just, you know, something of -- something routine. so it was obviously, it was related to the boston marathon, i think. and they were everywhere. >> today, talk about what happened. you saw the tactical teams, your house was searched. >> yes.
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my house was searched twice. once in the morning, once in the afternoon. >> how did they search it? sorry to interrupt you, i'm curious, what did they do when they came in? >> when they came in, it was a whole tactical team. they came in together. they ask you to stand somewhere, and basically they just go through the whole thing. they're very methodical. they went through my house room by room, they went through the basement, they went through everything. so they're very professional about it. and i was glad that they were as good as they were. >> and they came twice? >> they came twice. >> all right. and then what happened? there were people you knew who were in handcuffs at one point? >> basically two houses down from me, you know, when the tactical team went there, they ended up handcuffing everybody in the house. that was kind of scary because we thought they found something. they took three men and two women basically out handcuffed. and they questioned them outside and let them go after that. so that was a tense moment. and, you know, they handled it well, i think. >> extremely tense, i can imagine. cass, what was it like today as you were not alloweded -- you're
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not allowed to leave your house, they're going door to door. >> the best way i can characterize it, it was very long periods of silence followed by sudden periods of, you know, many cops, all different stripes, all different -- you know, badges coming through the neighborhood and then leaving and another period of silence. was strange, eerie. we're thankful it turned out the right way. >> yes. and hisham, what were the tactical teams like? how many people were in them? when they came in -- everyone want to have an understanding of this. you know, how were they armed, how organized were they, how many people in each group? >> they were very well organized. so the number of people who came in to my house, six people. >> six people. >> they were very well organized. there were multiple tactically teams outside. they were in their special vehicles. they were very professional, very methodical. they were not taking any chances. the house across the street from me is a house where a watertown police officer lives. they went through the that house the same way they went through
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every other house. they were very professional, methodical. they were not taking any chances. it gave me a whole new appreciation of what being a police officer means. >> right. yes, a whole new appreciation. were they also questioning people and asking questions, too? >> yes. they were asking questions and making sure people were okay. making sure that no one was being held hostage. you know, they did a great job. >> and cass, you were saying how it feels tonight. you both are out here. it's a little quieter now although there are still people, as viewers see, going by, beeping, hollering. people were out dancing. and they were actually -- with the cordoned off area tape, waving it around and celebrating. is this the first time you've ever felt this tightness as a community? that you're all out here sharing this thing that will be an unforgettable part of your lives? >> absolutely. everyone can say it is a tight community. it's a sleepy community, quiet community. it's funny to see it here. yes, it's a tremendous sense of euphoria and relief new it's over. and again, i think at the begin,
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there was serious gun itfight happ-- gunfight happening and braver oh the part of the officers. we were thank in this community. >> you must have so shocked when you heard the shots. when you realized, confirmed that this is your town and they believe this guy is here, what went through your head at that time? >> what went through my head actually was, you know, does he have acompliaccomplices or is h himself, i was afraid. there were officers with fla flashlights and guns drawn. i felt better today because i saul of the tactical teams, i saw how professional they were. i felt like it was under controlling. they were just -- they were amazing. i'm very impressed. >> yes. thank you very much for taking the time, staying up late, and for sharing your story and your town with the world tonight.
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thank you very much to both of you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> get some rest. you deserve it. real, uninterrupted rest. >> thank you. one of the big questions out there is -- is what the fbi knew and when they knew it. and i want to bring colonel leighton in to discuss this and seth jones, a terror expert and author of a book on al qaeda o hunting al qaeda. thank you very much to both of you. colonel, what is your take on that? the fbi said, look, we did question the older brother, tamerlan, the other night. we questioned him two years ago at the request of a foreign government who thought he had links to extremism and determined at the time that there was nothing derogatory, their word, but him. therefore, they moved on. when you hear that and you think about what happened now, we've also of course reported that that young man went to russia, spent six months there, came back after that time and was -- was spending more time on extremist web sites, are you concerned? is this something that we should have picked up before or not? >> i do think it is something that we should have picked up
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before because it's always a missed opportunity when you get something like this, you have an opportunity to question somebody of this type and you don't follow up on it. now, it is possible that he didn't have these ideological views or at least they weren't as fully developed at the thyme he was questioned. and if that's the case, then you're not going to find anything. but that -- that is the big question, you know, why wasn't it picked up by the fbi. and perhaps they didn't take the foreign government's request as seriously as they should have. that's something we'll have to figure out and find out from further investigations. >> seth, what's your understanding -- i know you've been looking into what happened in between the time the fbi first questioned atamerlan and there was a shift in his interests or that he expressed in jihadist-type activity. >> yeah. he certainly started listening to a range of radical preachers including shaikh fais muhammad,
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an australian of lebanese descent, whopproaches solophism. so increasingly on internet site, we know that he was monitoring some of these individuals who were supporting the use of violence overseas for jihad. this is stuff that i think if his web sites were monitored should have caused some concern. >> right. and of course at this point we don't know what the motivation was to this. and we can only hope that we're going to get more information from his younger brother who -- appears to have been motivated by, inspired by acting at the behest of his brother. but seth, this issue of the fbi, i mean, when you look at how many people that they're questioning and watching, is it impossible to expect them to identify a person who's actually going do this? >> it's very difficult. the fbi's arrested a lot of people the last several years that have links to groups like al shabab, al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, and a be of
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other organizations. this does some similarities with the london bombings where muhammad sadiki khan had been identified by british intelligence beforehand. they had not gone back and rescrubbed data a year or two before the london attacks. when the attacks occurred, they went and looked and had him on the radar screen. they just hadn't continued to look at him as a potential suspect. i wonder whether that was the case here because clearly they -- they had looked at him at one point, they may just not have look theed at him again. >> colonel, a final word to you. that is your belief on how this has changed the game. >> has this changed the game now that something like this has happened? >> well, i think it's awakened us to the need to be ever vigilant. we've preached this since 9/11 obviously. but now it's gotten home. it's -- you know, outside of the washington/new york area, it's
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another major city, another major event. but it really shows this we have to be very vigilant with people that have basically grown up in this country, at least part of the time. but there is always that question, what is the guy next door going do, and how do we understand what that person is doing. these people acted very normally in many respects, and that really make it very difficult because they're hiding in plain sight. and that's difficult for anybody let alone a private citizen to actually figure out what people really are thinking in this case. >> and i know i'm asking you to speculate here, but i am curious as to your view on how it came together. suspect number two in the hospital came to this country when he was a few days or i believe days or weeks shy of his 9th birthday. suspect number one who was killed last night, his older brother, seven years older, came when he was 20 years old. so when you -- the president of the united states talks about how they were educated here and lived here, which they did. one of them grew up here, and one of them didn't. is that significant?
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>> not necessarily. i mean, it is possible that either or -- actually neither of them had gone overseas at one point even while they were here for training. we you is that with faisal shahzad and arazi. they had gone for training. when they came here is less the issue than did they go back at some point, did they keep in contact with anybody in any other locations. >> all right. seth jones and colonel cedric leighton, we very much appreciate you taking the time to be with us tonight. we're just starting to ask some questions that are going to become so crucial and important in the coming hours, days, weeks, and month as this continues, this case continues. i want to share with you a statement that we just have from the amendment of martin richard, the 8-year-old boy who passed away this week. i want to read it in its entirety. we'll take a break, and i'll do
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and we are back. i wanted to share the statement from the family of martin richard, the youngest victim this week. the 8-year-old little boy who lost his life on monday. his mother and his sister were in the hospital, his sister had lost a leg, and she wanted to be a dancer. a family hit by unspeakable tragedy. they have put out a statement in response to tonight's events, thanking law enforcement agencies. i wanted to read it in full. "it worked. tonight our community is once again safe from these two men. none of this will bring our beloved martin becomor reverse the injuries these men inflicted on our family and nearly 200 others. we continue to pray for healing and for comfort on the long road that lies ahead for every victim and their loved ones. tonight, our ofamily applauds te entire law enforcement community for a job well done and trust that our justice system will now do its job."
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a statement that is incredible to hear from a family that has suffered through so much and that is suffering through so much and that always will be suffering through so much. a statement there at the end that we all can applaud which is that the american just system will now do its part. thank you very much for watching our live coverage from watertown, massachusetts. our live coverage from boston continues with "piers morgan live" after this break. look at them kids. [ sigh ]
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