tv CNN Newsroom CNN June 27, 2013 11:00am-1:01pm PDT
that correct? >> yes, sir. >> i've got one of those last names that most people can't pronounce, and so -- anyway. i'm curious, you grew up, i guess, in a haitian family? >> yes, sir. >> your mother speaks creole or haitian? >> creole. yes, sir. >> and the reason is i ask, i wonder in terms from a cultural or just from learning english, english was not my native tongue, and spoke spanish first, so in doing that, did you learn creole first or did you learn english first? i'm curious, sometimes there's a cultural thing. we say things, it isn't as clear to everybody. >> creole and spanish. >> okay. >> you also mentioned that you
were shown a letter, correct? i believe it's the defense exhibit -- madam clerk? may i approach? >> yes, you may. >> defense exhibit 17. you recognize this here? >> yes, sir. >> will you stand up and leave? you may proceed. >> defense exhibit 17 which is the letter you wrote to -- actually you didn't write -- you had somebody else write on behalf of you to sybrina fulton, the victim's mother. >> yes, sir. >> okay. and you -- it's confusing because there's two microphones here. you need to speak that that one. do you recognize the letter? >> yes, sir. >> okay. now, you had a friend of yours
write it, correct? >> yes, sir. >> because you can't write in cursive, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and you also can't read in cursive, correct? >> yes -- >> objection. this is redirect. >> i'll try to rephrase it. can you read in cursive? can you read cursive? >> no, sir. >> can you write in cursive? >> no, sir. >> you were asked about the friend that wrote that letter, correct? >> yes, sir. >> that's a friend that you asked to write it? >> yes, sir. >> okay.
you were also asked about numerous questions about the interview that you gave, the statement you gave me when i went down to, and in terms of with an investigator or two down in miami, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and mr. west asked you about the fact that the state attorney's office from jacksonville had been appointed by the governor, correct? >> yes, sir. >> okay. in terms of you found out that we were handling the case. >> yes, sir. >> okay. and you agreed to speak to me. is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> okay. in fact, as you stated, two cars went to a place where you were at, a friend's house, picked you up and took you down to take a statement, correct? >> yes, sir. >> okay. you were pretty emotional at that statement, weren't you?
>> yes, sir. >> was if hard for you to talk about this? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and in that statement, you as best you could attempted to tell what you remember? >> on objective now, this is the third of a series of leading questions. this is redirect. this is a direct question rather than leading. >> i'll rephrase, your honor. >> thank you. sustained. >> you recall in that statement stating that -- i'm sorry -- the april 2nd statement that mr. west asked you about that trayvon martin was running away from the person? >> yes, sir. >> and you also made reference that trayvon martin said the man described him as a creepy, white -- >> object. well, at this point, beyond the scope of the crime scene examination and not responsive
to one of the issues raised during the cross and it's also leading. >> overruled to the first two objections. as to the leading, i will give a little leeway to get a frame of reference and then make sure your questions aren't leading. >> yes, your honor. my question is, do you recall mr. west asking you that trayvon martin referred to the man who was following him as a creepy, white -- >> yes, sir. >> objection. >> i didn't say that. that's a mischaracterization of the testimony. >> sustained because i think the words were creepy ass cracker. >> i apologize. were the words creepy, pardon my language, creepy ass cracker? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and you recall mr. west asking you about that. >> yes, sir. >> okay. and also, and to you, is that a derogatory or is that the way
people speak in your culture, your age group? >> objection. leading. suggesting an answer. >> overruled. >> yes, sir. >> you also made reference some point that mr. trayvon martin also referred to the person also with the "n" word, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and when i say person, he's talking about the person that was following him. he referred to using the "n" word? >> yes, sir. >> by the way, in that letter, may i approach? >> yes. >> that letter, defense exhibit 17, you actually read it, trayvon martin's name is misspelled. were you aware of that? >> no, sir. >> it's spelled t-r-e-r -- >> i object. it's leading. >> overruled. >> it's spelled t-r-e-v-o-n.
were you aware of that? >> no, sir. >> you mentioned also when asked by mr. west about the statement that you gave to mr. crump by phone, correct? was that by phone, just to make sure of the record? you weren't there in person, or were you? >> by phone. >> okay. >> and mr. crump did not ask you specific questions about certain items for certain questions that i asked you specifically on april 2nd, is that correct? >> objection. leading. >> yes, sir. >> overruled. >> did mr. crump ask you specific questions like i did? >> no, sir.
>> you were asked by mr. west in terms of what happened and you recall in the sbrir that you gave me on april the 2nd, a statement you gave, you referred to the man approaching trayvon martin and sounded like a bump. do you recall using the word bump? >> yes, sir. >> objection. i guess i don't quite understand what's going on here. is that confronting the witness with her prior statement that he was present for? >> what is your objection? >> it's leading, and it is improper impeachment. if anything, it's bolstering by a supposed prior consistent statement of some sort. >> overruled on all three. >> do you recall using the word bump in describing what occurred to trayvon martin? >> yes, sir.
>> for the record, do you still live with -- mr. west asked you about meeting with two individuals from miami. you still live in miami, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> you were asked by mr. west about the phone calls that you had with mr. trayvon martin that day on february 26th. would you agree phone records are the best records in terms of the length of the calls, whatever the times are? >> yes, sir. >> let me have a moment, your honor. >> yes, you may.
>> as they're taking a quick pause here, we'll promise we'll get back to this in a moment. i have sunny hostin, cnn's legal analyst following this. quickly here, can we set the scene? here we have this young woman, 19 years of age going into her senior year of high school. friend of trayvon martin's. rachel jeantel. been on the stand for -- i take that back. let's listen. >> miami, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and you spoke english at home? >> what age are you talking about, sir? >> that's what i'm asking you. are you saying that english is your third language? that you spoke creole and spanish first? >> i spoke three language first. i learned how to speak -- creole
was the first one. >> does your mother speak english? >> not that well, sir. >> does she speak english? >> not that well, sir. >> i understand she may have an accent or some limitations, but do you speak to her in english? >> sometimes, sir. >> and if you're not speaking to her in english, you're speaking to her in creole? >> yes, sir. >> and your father, do you speak to him in english? >> yes, sir. >> and when you went to school as a child, kindergarten, did you speak english at school? >> yes, sir. >> and have you spoken english to your teachers and classmates in school up through today? >> yes, sir. >> are you claiming in any way that you don't understand english? >> i understand you. i understand you. i do understand english. >> my question is, when someone
speaks to you in english, do you believe that you have any difficulty understanding it because it wasn't your first language? >> i understand english really well. >> you've spoken it all your life? >> yes, sir. >> and there's nothing that i've said to you today in english that -- or yesterday -- that you haven't understood, correct? >> no, sir. >> the other thing i wanted to ask you about is mr. de la rionda said in reference to trayvon martin saying creepy ass cracker, and using the "n" word, that people like -- people speak like that in your culture. did you hear that? >> yes, sir. >> well, what culture is that where people describe other people as creepy ass crackers?
>> i'm sorry? >> do you understand by the culture you were raised in, the -- >> the area i was raised in you're trying to say? >> right. i'll say it this way. do people that you live around and with call white people creepy ass crackers? >> not creepy, but cracker, yeah. >> so the creepy is the pervert part that you were talking about? >> yeah. >> so forget that for a second. you're saying that in the culture that you live in, in your community, people call -- people there call white people crackers? >> yes, sir. >> and do they use the "n" word regularly? >> yes, sir. >> and you're saying so did
trayvon martin? trayvon martin referred to white people as crackers, correct? >> i don't recall, sir. >> okay. thank you. nothing else. >> redirect? >> no, your honor. >> may miss jeantel be excused? >> yes, your honor. >> you may be excused. call your next witness. >> wow. there she goes. rachel jeantel. she has been on the stand all day ever since court began this morning at 9:00 a.m. eastern time. she was on the stand yesterday as well for just about an hour. we have sunny hostin, also have mel robbin strs standing by.
sunny hostin, let me go to you. let me add one layer to this. you're looking at a box on your screen. we are also watching this happening. this is the aaron hernandez case out of massachusetts. just to give you a heads-up on what that box is. as he is asking -- he has now been charged with murder, asking to get bail, to be freed. back to what's happening here in sanford, florida. ladies, sunny, first to you, what did we just witness? >> you know, i've got to tell you, i think that the state recognized that she had been on the witness stand for so very long that it was time for her to not be on the witness stand. and that's a courtroom sense kind of thing. i think we also witnessed the fact that he didn't ask her, bernie de la rionda didn't ask her that many questions on redirect because he didn't think she needed to be rehabilitated that much. i think he felt she did okay. from my perch, brooke, having been in the courtroom and chatting with people, people like rachel.
at least that's what i have been told, what i can tell you. and she was pretty consistent in that she feels that she heard george zimmerman following trayvon, pursuing trayvon, approaching trayvon, and that really is what the state needed her to say and to do for the state because this is, again, a self-defense case. so they need her to combat that version of events. >> i have to ask you, let me ask mel. mel, yesterday you were in the courtroom. i don't know if today you had an opportunity to sit in there as well. i have to say, she does appear to be changed. somehow. from yesterday. and i know don west said, hey, did someone talk to you yesterday? she said, no, i just got some sleep. all this yes, sir, yes, sir, no, sir. sunny, with all due respect, i know you say yesterday she seemed much more combative than today. for many perspectives from folks i've talked to, it seems the exact opposite. mel, how did you perceive her? >> well, it was the exact opposite, and like sunny, i
found her to be incredibly credible. i think a lot of the disconnect between her and don west was a generational issue. in terms of him not understanding the way that some teenagers behave and also not understanding her because she speaks so slowly and with such a low voice that sometimes she's incomprehensible. but, you know, here's the thing that i noticed the most. it was not what she was saying that was turning people off, particularly jurors. it was how she was behaving yesterday. and some of that was coming out. no, sir, no, sir, no, sir, no, sir. and there was completely attitude in there. there was one juror, by the way, b29, who's the hispanic juror, would not look at this witness for almost the entire 40 minutes i was in there. was staring straight ahead at the defense. so while i found her to be credible, even though some of the stories changed, i didn't buy the one line that nobody had talked to her, because i'm sure she got a talking to last night
act how she should behave in a murder 2 style. >> yeah, there's so much i want to talk about when it comes to this witness. we need to get a quick break in. standby. coming up now that rachel jeantel is finished, being questioned, we now know another witness will take to the stand. we'll take that live. also, again, we are watching what's happening in fall jirive massachusetts. superior court where former new england patriot tight end aaron hernandez is basically asking this judge to set him free, give him bail. we'll see if he's successful here in this criminal case. stay right with us. a lot happening on this thursday. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day. there was this and this. she got a parking ticket... ♪ and she forgot to pay her credit card bill on time.
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...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. breaking news in the aaron hernandez case. the former nfl star may be linked to two other murders. these are pictures from a while ago here as he walked into the superior courthouse in fall river, massachusetts. law enforcement source tells cnn that hearnandez is now being investigated in connection with the double murder that happened in boston south end. that was july of last year.
here now, live pictures as this is under way. right now hernandez, you can -- i don't know if you can see him in this picture. there he is in the back row. he is back in court one day after being charged with murdering 27-year-old odin lloyd last week. he is appealing the judge's decision to withhold bail. a second suspect, carlos ortiz, was arrested yesterday in connection with this hernandez murder case. and we have a picture of him. his mugshot. ortiz is due in court as early as today. this is hernandez there, obviously. we do not know what ortiz -- we don't know yet what ortiz may be charged with. we're standing by for that. also this. we're hearing reports today of these chilling text messages from the victim, from odin lloyd in the final moments. the final seconds of his life.
the "boston globe" is reporting that lloyd texted his sister after 3:00 in the morning while hernandez allegedly drove him down this dark dirt road toward this industrial complex. so he texted, to the sister, "did you see who i am with?" lloyd texted. minutes later he texted three little words, "nfl." his final text to his sister, just so you know. also, hernandez's tattoos are being scrutinized for possible gang symbols. a sheriff says some tattoos do raise suspicion and a police gang unit is also investigating. hernandez has pleaded not guilty on all charges. he faces murder charge on five weapons-related charges here. finally i want to show you one more picture, a shocking photo of who was once this nfl star. was once a new england patriot. aaron hernandez here, showing he was locked and loaded years
before this alleged murder took place. so you see this photo. hernandez is posing with a gun in his left hand and his blackberry or some sort of phone in his right. he was 19 years of age when he took this self-portrait. let me go back to sunny hostin who is also helping us, pulling double duty for us today, also talking about the aaron hernandez case. sunny hostin, first of all, let's just talk about this bail, specifically this bail review, because he was in this district court yesterday and he -- the judge said no to bail. and so now here he is at the superior court now asking this judge to hopefully, you know, have a change of mind and set him free. this is this bail review. it's pretty common in criminal cases, is it not? >> it is, but i've got to tell you, he doesn't have a chance at getting bail. i mean, the factors that a judge has to look at is, one, whether or not he is a risk of flight. and two, whether or not he is a
danger to himself or to the community. now, one, he got a $12 million signing bonus, right? that type of money gives you the means to be able to fly out of the united states or to get somewhere where law enforcement authorities are going to have difficulty retrieving you. and so that's the one thing. the other prong which is, you know, a danger to others in your community. i mean, if you have someone who has been charged with first-degree murder and is now being investigated for, in connection with yet double murder, i can't see any judge is going to find he can meet either prong. so i suspect this bail hearing is much adieu about nothing. i think he's going to be staying put. >> sunny hostin, standby. i want to bring in one more guest. this is rocheta, private investigator, former law enforcement official. his clients, the defense team for ray lewis, nfl player charged in connection with the
2000 slaying. he pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice. rasheed, welcome. nice to meet you. let's just talk sort of generically. you spend a fair amount of time around some of these pro ballplayers. >> yes. >> when you read about certain cases, i was even reading about now how hernandez is being suspected in this double murder in boston from last summer and that started a club. this most recent murder started a club. a lot of these, let's just say riffraff. clubs. guys around, sitting around drinking. someone mouths off. maybe something happened after that. but this according to the district attorney in massachusetts here, in attleboro, this case is so different, don't you think? >> it's different. >> why? >> it's very different. it seems like they're getting information from somebody that was involved in this as well. there's too much intimate information that they have about conversations that were in the c car. unlike the co-defendants in our
case, in the ray lewis case, no one was speaking. someone is speaking to the police and giving them intimate details or conversations. still the motive, no one knows what the motive is. >> right. >> this is the thing that is the head scratcher. what is the motive? >> who knows when we'll actually learn the motive, if we ever will. when it comes to this specific killing, when you hear and read what the prosecutors are saying in massachusetts, they're basically calling it execution style. according to the d.a.'s office, this guy is pulled out in the middle of the night, taken down this dirt road, taken to this industrial complex and shot multiple times. we were talking about the tattoos, and who knows, that could be nothing. but if a gang investigation unit is looking into this, i'm curious, big picture, how much of a gang culture really exists today among nflers? >> it's obviously there. how well those players are masking it, it's probably a case-by-case basis. but this is something that the
people who are recruiting or scouting these guys, when they're in college, they know. it takes time to spend that much time to thoroughly vet someone when you're looking to bring them into your organization. i don't think that maybe they have the time and resources really to put that type of effort into it, but there's a lot of connection on a lot of these campuses with these young men. got to keep in mind the element that these young men are come from as well. so it's something that really needs to -- you need to take a closer look at it. it's pretty interesting the parallels between what's going on with this young man and the situation, the circumstances that we faced in the ray lewis case. >> so on that, you know, when you go back initially to ray lewis case, initially he was charged with murder. initially he was denied bail. initially here we've seen aaron hernandez, he's now charged with murder. he has been denied bail, although he's fighting that right now in the superior court. but vastly different in terms of
how teams approached it. the ravens embraced him. they fought for him. and the pats, after he was arrested yesterday, done. >> it's very interesting because the facts that were brought out, ray initially, were much more gruesome than the facts that are brought up in this situation with this young man. and keep in mind, ray was charged with two counts of first-degree murder. not just one. >> yeah. >> and so art modell, the owner, was at ray lewis' bond hearing as well as other prominent nfl players that were sitting there in the courtroom -- >> do you think that played a major role in the end of sort of what sealed his fate? >> totally. there was an exchange between art modell and the prosecutor at that time in the courtroom that was very significant. but to show the support that the owner had for that young man, and then even the position that the nfl took, you know, it's under a different commissioner at that time. so nfl's a different nfl then
than it is now. >> okay. rashid abdul salaam. thank you so much. and you've been looking at live pictures inside this courthouse of massachusetts of what aaron hernandez is hoping to be able to be a free man, i want to take you back to another courtroom, back to sanford, florida, as this man, george zimmerman, is on trial for second-degree murder. another witness is about to take to the stand. we will take that live. we will also talk much more. the two day, it seems like, day and a half testimony, of rachel jean jeantel. back in a moment.
i'm brooke baldwin. bottom of the hour. you are watching cnn. as this last moments in trayvon mart martin's life here, the last words his friend heard him say over the phone, whether martin might have confronted george zimmerman, dominated testimony today in zimmerman's murder trial there in sanford, florida. these are live pictures. the last person to talk to trayvon martin on the phone returned to the witness stand this morning and just finished. just about five minutes ago. she is rachel jeantel. she is this young woman, 1 ye9 years aftyear s of age, going into her senior year of high school. she faced a full morning of grilling by zimmerman's attorney who tried to shake her testimony about her retelling of her phone conversation with martin in the days after she was killed.
jeantel toned down some of the attitude that she exhibited in court yesterday, until this. let me play this for you. this explain with zimmerman attorney, defense co-counsel, don west. >> so you made the decision, then, not to tell mr. crump that you'd actually heard trayvon martin say, get off, get off, because you were in a hurry? >> objection. asked and answered. >> the word, in a hurry, is an additional part to that question, so i will allow it in the answer. >> yes, sir. because crump is not a law enforcer. >> so you weren't worried about telling him, first of all, the truth, or the whole story? >> first of all, crump is not law enforcement. he's not an officer. i knew that he was not an officer. so like i told the mother, from the beginning, if officer wants to talk to me, know the exact
story, everything about what happened that night, they will reach me at my number. you got it? >> and for the first time, the defense asked jeantel whether martin confronted zimmerman. >> so he told you that he could see the man again. the man was behind him, correct? >> yes. close. >> sure. >> yes, sir. >> and if he were hiding somewhere and the man walked close to him, they would be close together, correct? >> objection, your honor. argumentative. >> sustained. >> nebraska in any event, yours sense is they got close together at that point? >> he got close to trayvon. yes, sir. >> you don't know whether the man was approaching trayvon at that point in getting closer, or whether trayvon was approaching the man and getting closer? >> trayvon would have told me
he'll call me back, sir, if he was going to approach him, sir. >> so you're assuming that trayvon didn't approach the man because he would have told you if he was going to confront the guy, he would call you back when it was over? >> yes, sir. >> okay. so that was just a sliver of what we've been watching the last couple of hours. couple of hours, vinnie poll tan. >> yes. >> we talked about this yesterday. first, were you surprised how long don west kept her on the stand today? >> i was. here's why i'm surprised. because for cross examining a witness, this isn't the most sophisticated witness in the world. i would think that a criminal defense attorney, as experienced as don west, could be laser focused, get in, get out, and do all his damage so much more quickly and efficiently, and he didn't do it that. and i think it hurt his case. >> you do? >> yeah. this should have been the
the's'siest cross-examination ever. >> it went on and on and on. >> it was painful at times. think at certain points don west made himself look bad and obviously this witness has a lot of issues with her demeanor on the stand. and then ultimately with the way she words things gets very confusing for everyone. including the prosecutor. including don west. including the court reporter. including the judge and including me. >> i want to get to some of the language he was using in just a moment. obviously he was trying to poke holes in some of the story. going by, talking about the min nu minutia, the time, the phone calls and words. whether or not trayvon martin was followed versus whether or not perhaps trayvon martin confronted george zimmerman is what he was trying to get out, correct? >> what don west is trying to do is get his defense in. he basically laid it out and said, he could have been hiding and approached him and attacked him. she said, i'm not saying that, not in those exact words.
but this is the defense trying to get george zimmerman's story in front of the jury through this witness which is kind of bizarre, but i don't think they want george zimmerman to testify. but the bottom line is is that this should have been a quick and easy cross-examination because, yes, the wording she's used in her statements has varied. >> it has varied. >> yes. >> want to get a quick break in, but we have to talk about those three little words she used. the crazy cracker. we're going to go there. do not miss this. i want your opinion. >> you want my opinion, but i'm not saying the words. >> i'm not saying the words, either. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.
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breaking news. we'll take you back to george zb zimmerman in a moment. this man, aaron hernandez, was denied bail. denied bail yesterday. denied bail again as he was clearly pleading to go free. that is not happening. that is news into us at cnn out of massachusetts. let me hop back, though, to the news, the george zimmerman trial under way in sanford, florida. i want to bring vinnie back in, vinnie politan, anchor of hln's "after dark." let's talk about this colorful language. >> yes. >> that was used today. multiple words. we're going to play the first phrase. she initially used it yesterday. it was brought back up today. you made a great point during commercial, the fact the defense team didn't use the word racial,
as in racial profiling in this case. you say this possibly re-opened the door to this whole conversation about race because of this conversation. watch. >> you may not consider it a racial comment, but it's certainly offensive, isn't it? >> no. >> you don't think calling someone a creepy ass cracker is offensive? >> no. >> so -- but you specifically chose not to tell ms. fulton that's what trayvon martin said? >> no. >> because you thought it would hurt her feelings, didn't you? >> no. >> you didn't think that would bother her if you said that her son described the man that was following him in a car on the phone -- >> i didn't think that was important. >> -- was a creepy ass cracker? >> i did not think that was important. >> not important enough to put in the letter and not important enough to tell her -- >> objection. >> okay. so we back up. so initially he was asking her because when we were talking yesterday, she used this phrase
and as she was describing, again. she's on the phone with trayvon martin the night he's shot and killed. she's describing what trayvon martin told her on the phone. >> right. trayvon's words. >> she's simply relaying trayvon's words to the jurors. so she said, describing this man who we now know was george zimmerman, as a crazy bleep cracker. >> creepy. >> well, yesterday it was crazy. today it was creepy. >> creepy. here's the thing. from my perspective, it helps her credibility to a certain extent because everyone knows she's trayvon's friend, so she has a side in all this. right? she wants george zimmerman convicted. she won't say -- i don't know, she's not going to be asked that. but we know which side she comes down. she's trayvon's friend. >> right. >> yet she is saying something that makes trayvon not look that great. so if i'm the prosecution, i can argue she's truthful, ladies and gentlemen. she's not hiding anything from you. she's not making things up. she even volunteered that statement that trayvon martin
said. and that doesn't make trayvon martin look great. so the defense while they'll use it against trayvon, the prosecution can use it to bolster her credibility and say, the reason she said it is because it was true. >> okay. hang on. hang on. sunny hostin, i want to come to you, because you've been down there. you've been sitting inside this courtroom. here's my question to you also on this phrase she was using today because it was a part of the conversation where don west is saying, what made you think this was racial? this was part of the conversation. why was this a racial, why do you think trayvon thought he was being followed because of the color of his skin? that's when the phrase comes into play. when she was asked later, do you think the word cracker is offensive, she said no. i'm confused. >> yeah. i was confused as well, but, you know what, i grew up in the northeast, right. i grew up in the bronx. and so that's not a term that i, quite frankly, had ever even heard of, so that goes to show you that, perhaps, a lot of this is regional. perhaps that is part of the vernacular that she uses with
her friends. but i tend to agree with vinnie you know, that the prosecution is going to say, yeah, it's a hateful word and it's terrible and she said it, and that means that she's credible because she's not trying to make trayvon look any better or worse. she's just authentically -- she's just authentic. she's going to tell the truth. i think the defense is definitely going to hone in on the fact that she said that trayvon martin said some terrible things, some dismarriaging remarks and it shows that he was hateful and he was angry. it cold possibly neutralize you know, the argument that george zimmerman was saying, you know, these fing punks. i mean, perhaps, perhaps you see that contrast. and i suspect we're going to tha hear a lot about that in closing arguments. >> mel robbins, criminal done. you're in there as well. do you agree with the sense of authenticity she's bringing? >> i don't think the question is going to be whether or not she's being authentic or, quote,
credible. >> what's the question? >> the question is, does she remember this correctly? i mean, this comes down to what was said right before the phone went down. and she said two different things. one of them is, what are you doing around here? and the other statement that she made was that trayvon actually said first, why are you following me? and he said, why are you asking me that? so that's two very different things that she said and i think in the end the jury is basically going to say to nethemselves, i think she's basically telling the truth but i'm not quite sure if she remembers what happened that doesn't necessarily mean she's lying. >> if i was sitting in the courtroom, i'd be staring at the jury. i'd be watching these six women, five of whom are white, one of whom is african-american, hispanic. how are they -- are you watching their faces? >> yes. >> how are they ingesting what's being said? >> well, i'm going to go out on a limb here, but b29 does not like rachel. she's not -- i think she was really turned off by the
rudeness yesterday and rachel's frustration and how that came through very in a disrespectful manner. she will not look at this witness, you guys. she stares straight ahead right at the attorneys and as rachel is saying, no sir, no, sir, no, sir, some of the other jurors are like a ping-pong match back and forth watching it go down and she stares straight ahead. there are two other jurors who are very interesting. there's a juror in her mid 30s with blond hair sitting in the back row. she looks down almost the entire time. she is writing down every single word. >> wow. >> also the woman from iowa with the short curly white hair and the glasses who's married to the engineer, she also looking down writing almost every single word. so i would say five out of the six are completely engaged and one of them is either totally checked out or very turned off on that witness. >> interesting. mel, vinnie, sunny, stand by for me. have to get a quick break in. we're watching here, we're
continuing to watch this second-degree murder trial of george zimmerman. fascina fascinating. absolutely fascinating testimony. on the other side of the break, we're going to play you more sound of moments that might give you pause. mom, dad told me that cheerios is good for your heart, is that true? says here that cheerios has whole grain oats that can help remove some cholesterol, and that's heart healthy. ♪ [ dad ] jan?
hi. here we go. live pictures in sanford, florida, as we continue to cover the george zimmerman trial. one of the riveting parts is watching the tension. imagine being in the courtroom. watching on television, the tension playing back and forth between trayvon martin's friend, rachel jeantel, this 19-year-old woman and defense attorney don
west. i'll share these moments that certainly caught our attention a short time ago. >> you don't have any information from the news that this was a racially charged event? >> no. i told you i don't watch the news. >> okay. are you okay this morning? >> yeah. >> you seem so different than yesterday. just checking. did someone talk -- >> is that a question? >> yes. did someone talk with you last night about your demeanor in court yesterday? >> no. i went to sleep. >> could you tell me how wet grass sounds? >> wet. rolling all over. >> when you describe the sound as you could hear wet grass, what is it that you actually
heard that led you to make that opinion? >> somebody rolling all -- rolling on top of the grass. >> and it goes on and he actually asks what does wet grass sound like? hln's vinnie politan with me, also darren. let's start with you since you're new to the party today. as we keep watching all this, let's go back to the initial question here about, because it was very clear her, rachel jeantel's demeanor was different. the yes, sir, yes, sir, no, sir, today. very different than yesterday. the question, do you think it was a legitimate question from don west to stay, hey, did you talk to someone last night? >> yeah, it's absolutely a fair question. when it comes to this witness, she definitely gets points for being authentic, but authentic is not the same thing as credible. and when she's on cross-examination, her demeanor is certainly relevant. whether she's under the influence of any medication is
relevant. there was a court order from the judge that she not talk to anybody. that's where don west was going here i'm assuming. >> no one is supposed to be talking to ther between yesterday and today. >> that's right. absolutely. you want to maintain the integrity of the proceedings even overnight and not have the witness' testimony be influenced by any outside source. and she was totally and completely different today. so it makes you wonder what might have been going on here. >> sarcastic, though. it wasn't like she was saying it in a respectful manner. >> there were two different times where she said, you got it? remember that. she used a word i'm not going to use when she said, are you -- >> there was definitely some smoldering emotion there. you could see that bubble up to the surface from time to time. and ultimately when the lawyers are talking about witnesses, their credibility, their biases, you can expect we're going to hear that come up in closing argument. it certainly -- we're not done with her. as a matter of fact, we know we're not done, because she's subject to recall. i think we're going to see her again on the stand.
>> maybe. >> and one thing that lawyers do in trial is they try and use the testimony of one witness to impeach testimony from another witness. so we may see somebody else coming up that they'll want to bring her back for to try and use her to then discredit somebody else. >> but her big thing is language and her use of language. she dropped the "b" bomb today in describing the prosecutor. bald. she did. she did. she knows his name but she said the bald guy over there. >> how is that sitting with the jurors? again, i go back to these -- >> she's searching for words. she's searching for words. one thing that did come out this afternoon was that english, you know, she's been, yes, she's been in this country and speaking, but at home her parents -- >> creole. >> they speak spanish. and at times i saw her searching for words. you can see that the wheels are turning, she's got an idea in her head and she's searching for the word. >> you could almost smell the smoke at one point, though, because it was on cross-examination when west was asking about the use of certain slang. >> yep.
>> and you could see the lengthy pause and literally see the cogs turning and some people might say, well, she's just searching her mind in order to be accurate in her reply. somebody else, somebody more cynical, perhaps, might say, no, she's searching her mind to try to come up with an answer that's going to be helpful, not make her look bad or further her interes interests. >> let me jump in. on the other side we're going to dip in. on the next side, on the stand, jenna lowrer, lived in this neighborhood where all of this happened. back in a moment. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day. there was this and this. she got a parking ticket... ♪ and she forgot to pay her credit card bill on time. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate. ever. as in never ever.
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here we go. welcome back top of the hour. i'm brooke baldwin. you're looking at live pictures in boston. we're about to get huge news, indictments coming down. this is the day bostonians have been waiting for. dzhokhar zotsarnaev is official indicted. shall we dip in? let's listen in. >> defendant's alleged conduct forever changed lives. the victims, their families and the community have shown extraordinary strength and resilience in the face of this senseless violence, and it is with the hundreds of injured as well as the victims in this case in mind that we proceed to seek
and make sure that justice is served. before i get into more of the specifics in the indictment, i would like to thank the hundreds of men and women in law enforcement whose hard work, dedication and sheer perseverance brought us to this day. there are too many individuals to name and agencies to name. some of the leaders of those agencies whom i have worked with closely since the day of the bombing stand here with me today. i also want to thank middlesex county defense attorney for their continued cooperation and assistance in this investigation. and district attorney ryan will be also announcing charges against this defendant and you will hear from her shortly. the indictment that the grand jury returned today charges the defendant with numerous counts. among them, conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction
resulting in deaths and using a weapon of mass destruction resulting in death. conspiracy to bomb a place of public use, as well as bombing a place of public use. conspiracy to maliciously destroy property resulting in personal injury and death, as well as maliciously destroying property resulting in personal injury and causing death. and use of a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence, including using a firearm to cause death. carjacking resulting in serious bodily injury, and interfering with commerce by threat and violence. the indictment contains detailed factual allocations about the defendant's alleged conduct and roles in the crimes that have been charged. according to the indictment, dzhokhar tsarnaev and his brother, tamerlan, took steps before april 15th to prepare for
their actions that day. among them, on or about march 20th, the defendant and his brother traveled to a firing range in manchester, new hampshire, where dzhokhar tsarnaev rented two .9 millimeter handguns, purchased 200 rounds of ammunition, and engaged in target practice. on or about april 15th, tamerlan tsarnaev ordered electronic components on the internet that could be adapted to use in ieds and had them shipped to a camden residence he shared with his brother, dzhokhar. the defendant downloaded a publication that provided instructions on how to build the bomb. and the day before the bombing, the defendant opened prepaid cell phone account number in the name of dzhokhar tsarnaev. according to the indictment on april 15th at approximately 2:40 p.m., tamerlan tsarnaev placed
the backpack in front of 621 boylston street where marathon is located among a dense crowd of marathon spectators. the backpack contained an ied constructed from a low explosive powder, shrapnel, adhesive, electronic components and other items. at the same time, dzhokhar tsarnaev walked to 755 boylston street in front of the restaurant where he also placed a backpack containing a similar kind of ied. among another crowd of marathon spectators, including dozens of men, women, and children. according to the indictment at approximately 2:48 p.m., dzhokhar tsarnaev called his brother using his prepaid cell phone and spoke to him for several seconds. seconds after the call, tamerlan tsarnaev detonated the bomb that he had placed in front of marathon sports. after that bomb exploded, among
many things, it killed crystal marie campbell and it also maimed and seriously injured many others. seconds later, after the first explosion, dzhokhar tsarnaev detonated the bomb that he had placed in front of the restaurant. and when that bomb exploded, it killed lu and martin richard and also maimed and seriously injured many others that were in that area. the indictment further alleges that on april 18th, a few hours after the media began disseminating photographs of the tsarnaev brothers, identifying them as potential suspects in the marathon bombing, dzhokhar and tamerlan armed themselves with five ieds, a ruger .9 millimeter semiautomatic handgun, ammunition, a machete, and a hunting knife and drove their honda civic to m.i.t. in
cambridge. when they arrived at the school, the defendant and his brother murdered m.i.t. police officer sean, shooting him in the head at close range with a . mi9 millimeter semiautomatic handgun and attempted to steal his weapon. dzhokhar and tamerlan tsarnaev carjacked an individual who is referred to in the document at d.m. and who was in a mercedes and they carjacked him by pointing a gun and threatening to kill him. they indicated to the victim that they intended to drive his vehicle to manhattan. dzhokhar and tamerlan forced d.m. to drive to watertown where they retrieved a portable gps device and other items from their honda civic then forced d.m. to drive to a service station to get gas. while they were searching to a gas station, they drove d.m. to
a bank of america atm in watertown square and forced him to hand over his debit card and personal identification number. dzhokhar tsarnaev then used his debit card and withdrew $800 from the victim's bank account. at around 12:15 a.m. on april 19th, while the defendant and his brother stopped for gas, the victim escaped from the mercedes and called 911. after the victim escaped, dzhokhar and tamerlan tsarnaev drove to laurel street in watertown where police located them and tried to apprehend them. it was at this time that the tsarnaev brothers began firing at the officers. the tsarnaev brothers used four ieds against them, one of which was made from pressure cooker. low explosive powder, shrapnel, and other items. after attempting to shoot, bomb, and kill or disable the officers
who were trying to apprehend him, dzhokhar tsarnaev drove directly at watertown officers jeff puglesi, john mcclellan and john reynolds. when dzhokhar tsarnaev drove at the officers, he barely missed sergeant jeffrey puglesi who was attempting to track tamerlan tsarnaev to safety. he drove over his brother, tamerlan, seriously injuring him and contributing to his death. in the course of making his escape, dzhokhar tsarnaev also caused massachusetts donahue, a massachusetts bay transportation authority officer, to sustain serious bodily injury. tsarnaev later abandoned the car on spruce street in watertown, smashing both of his cell phones and hid in a dry dock in boat in the watertown backyard until he was captured by the police.
as a result of the charges that have been filed today, the defendant faces up to life and possibly death if convicted. i do want to say that i have met several of those that were injured on april 15th as well as members of the deceased families. i was able to hear their thoughts, discuss the process moving forward, and learn a bit about them personally. their strength is extraordinary, and we will do everything that we can to pursue justice not only on their behalf, but on behalf of all of us. i would now like to introduce my colleague, district attorney of middlesex county. >> okay. so, many people in boston, this is the day you have been waiting for. this is finally the day in which the federal grand jury has returned this indictment. 30 counts, 30 counts that this 19-year-old suspect is now facing here.
dzhokhar tsarnaev, the younger of the two brothers involved in this murder of four americans. three of whom were killed at the finish line at the boston marathon. and as she just mentioned, the m.i.t. police officer, sean collier. sunny hostin, let me bring you in here. as wie were listening to this list, i was scribbling down notes. conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction. conspiracy to bomb a public place. the actual bombing of a public place. the list goes on and on and on. having been there three weeks kufring this thing. initially when you heard the charges, it was a handful of years and now we hear if convicted, we're talking possibly life. >> oh, no question about it. i mean, i have a copy of the indictment. i was trying to review it on my iphone. it's a 74-page indictment, brooke. >> wow. >> he's going to be arraigned on july 10th, 2013. you're right, it's a 30-count indictment. what's so interesting is 17, brooke, 17 of those charges are death penalty eligible charges. we know in the state of
massachusetts there is no state death penalty, but there is the death penalty under federal law, and so he is, you know, there is that exposure. the remainder authorize a max penalty of life in prison. so any way you slice this, if this -- if he gets only convicted of one of the lesser charges, it's still an exposure of life in prison. i will tell you this, no decision, it appears, has been made as to whether or not it is going -- the government is going to seek the death penalty, but there is a process that one has to go through in the federal government to determine whether or not they will seek the death penalty and there's a death penalty review committee, and so that determination hasn't been made yet, but, of course, as i just mentioned, 17 of these counts are death penalty eligible. so this is a significant, significant case. >> it's incredible. 17. sunny hostin, thank you so much. we'll come back to you. also we're going to take you back to what is happening there in boston. specifically our correspondent, deborah feyerick, is sitting in
and listening to this news conference. we'll go back to her and get a little bit more from what the u.s. attorney has been saying. also now live pictures from the george zimmerman trial. as you know, he faces second-degree murder. a new witness on the stand. she's a real estate agent who lives in the neighborhood where this killing took place. we will listen to this on the other side of the break. [ larry ] you know throughout history,
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all right. breaking news here on cnn, we have now learned from the u.s. attorney out of boston, massachusetts, that 19-year-old dzhokhar tsarnaev now faces 30 counts here, 17 of which include the possibility, eligibility, i should say, of the dweath penaly with regard to what happened that horrible day in april at that boston marathon at the finish line. i want to go to deborah feyerick who is on the phone, sitting in on the news conference with the u.s. attorney, listening to all the myriad charges being read. d you and i were in boston during
this happened. one thing that happened during the tick tock, the timeline, the kronology, that was the first time i heard which brother called to detonate the bomb. >> it was new. he wasn't charged just federally with those 30 counts including using a weapon of mass destruction. he was also charged by the state, 15 counts by the state, one of which is murder. that's murder of the m.i.t. officer sean collier. the indictment laid out a number of steps we haven't heard before. for example, the brothers bought 48 mortars in new hampshire. eight pounds of low explosive powder they used in the devices. also they went to a firing range about a month earlier. they rented two .9 millimeter handguns and did target practice for an hour shooting off 200 rounds of ammunition. the electronic components which were used to build those devices, brooke, those were actually bought online and sent in the mail.
>> wow. >> also dzhokhar tsarnaev bought a prepaid telephone and that's the telephone he used to call his brother. when both of them detonated their device within a minute of each other. we want to give additional information about the evening, brooke. you were up here in boston. we know how it played out. we're learning now, according to the indictment, tsarnaev shot the m.i.t. officer in order to steal his gun. they carjacked a man and then returned to their own car in order to get a gps. instead on their way, they picked up gas, they picked up cash, and then when they returned to their own car, after the carjack victim escaped, a fire fight broke out. the brothers were shooting at the officers, and this is new. we're learning that three officers tackled tamerlan tsarnaev, got him to the ground, and that's when his brother, dzhokhar, allegedly jumped in the car and began driving it toward the police officers. one of the officers actually tried to drag tamerlan out of the range of the vehicle, but
wasn't able to do that. dzhokhar side swept one of the officers, almost hit him, actually, and that's when he dumped the car and went on the run. so these are the new details that are coming out of this press conference. you've got the u.s. attorney, carmen ortiz, you have district attorneys from various counties who are in the room. the police officers. ats. u.s. marshals. a lot of people who were involved in this massive man hundredth, broo hunt, brooke. >> incredible, all the new details pouring out today because of this. incredible investigation work there from everyone in boston. and, of course, federal level as well. deborah feyerick, thank you so much. 30 counts. 17 of which would make him death penalty eligible. forgive me, eric, let me talk to the control room again. okay. we're going to take you back to the george zimmerman trial momentarily. they're playing some 911 calls in the courtroom right now. quick break. back to sanford, florida, after this. anyone have occasional constipation,
let's all watch. >> february of last year. >> right. >> okay. and your backyard would be right here, is that correct? >> yes. >> and is this what's referred to as a dog walk or walkway or something? >> yes. >> and would this be referred to as a "t" maybe? >> yes. >> okay. sorry. i need some assistance. what i want to also go back to state's exhibit 1 and blow it up a little bit this time because i want to take in -- in terms of back in february of 2012, when this was your residence, would this be the front right here of the residence? >> yes. >> okay. and is this the walkway that i'm pointing to right here with the arrow with the cursor that leads all the way and then comes down this way? >> yes. >> okay.
so your house is right here at the corner? >> yes. >> okay. ma'am, i'm going to show you now another photograph. thank you. state's exhibit number 3. can you tell from that photograph your residence back in -- >> as you can see, some photos are being shown of the neighborhood where this entire altercation happened. again, this is this woman by the name of jenna lauer. she's being questioned right now. she's on the stand following many, many hours of testimony by this friend of trayvon martin, rachel jeantel. it's been a grueling cross-examination today in this murder trial in sanford, florida, of george zimmerman. on the stand most of the day today was this young woman, here she was, who was the one on the phone with teenager trayvon martin just before george zimmerman shot him. and zimmerman's lawyer challenged her testimony about
what she heard on the phone the night martin was killed. and for the first time, the defense asked jeantel whether martin confronted zimmerman. >> told you that he could see the man again, the man was behind him, correct? >> yes. close. >> sure. >> yes, sir. >> and if he were hiding somewhere and the man walked close to him, they would be close together, correct? >> objection, your honor. argumentive. >> sustained. >> in any event, your sense of it was that they got close together at that point? >> he got close to trayvon, yes, sir. >> and you don't know whether the man was approaching trayvon at that point in getting closer, or whether trayvon was approaching the man and getting closer? >> trayvon would have told me, he'll call me back, sir, if he was going to approach him, sir.
>> so you're assuming that trayvon didn't approach the man because he would have told you if he was going to confront the guy, he would call you back when it was over? >> yes, sir. >> jeantel was also questioned about the last thing she heard before that phone call stopped. stopped. >> so the last thing you heard was some kind of noise like something hitting somebody. >> trayvon got hit -- trayvon got hit. >> you don't know that, do you? >> no, sir. >> you don't know that trayvon got hit. >> he could -- >> you don't know that trayvon didn't at that moment take his fist and drive it into george zimmerman's face. >> please lower your voice. >> do you? >> no, sir. >> i want to bring in criminal defense attorney holly hughes here in atlanta to walk through all of this testimony here.
let's just begin with what is don west trying to do there? >> what he's trying to do is get the jury to think about this. she's an ear witness, not an eyewitness. so she's very strong today, and we see a much different rachel jeantel today than we saw yesterday. >> yeah. >> yesterday she was very combative and it was seen as disrespectful by a lot of people. and today someone has obviously just given her a little bit of tip on courtroom demeanor. >> even though when don west asked, did someone talk to you? >> right. >> because no one is supposed to. >> right. >> between these two different days of testimony. she said, no, i just got some sleep. >> but here's the thing, too, bear in mind the prosecutor is absolutely allowed to talk to her. he can't say to her, change your testimony or by the way, i think you made a mistake, but he can certainly talk to her about her demeanor. that's perfectly acceptable, and quite frankly, should have been done before she took the stand in the first place. >> okay. >> because that disrespect was a little distracting for some people.
they were turned off by it. today, miss jeantel did a wonderful job. she was strong. she stood by her convictions. no, sir, he would not have punched him. >> i have to stop you because others i've talked to and other people we've had on the show listening to her yes, sir, yes, sir, no, sir, no, sir. disrespectful was a word that was used. got it? she said. you got it? >> very different from what we saw yesterday. take her testimony as a whole because yesterday she was extremely combative and yelling after him as he's walking, are you listening to me, don't you watch the first 48? and that's not what we expect to see in a court of law. that's okay if you're having a discussion over the dinner table, if you're hanging out with your friends. when you're in a court of law, someone should prepare you how to do that. it doesn't seem like that was done yesterday. that's what people were focused on. today i'm hearing her answer. is she a little snippy? absolutely. think about this. this is the defense attorney who is trying to get the man off who
shot her friend. so she's not going to be his best friend. she's not going to like him. but what we see here today from rachel is she's very clear in her answers. she's saying, no, it didn't happen that way. don west is trying to get the jury to think, well, she doesn't really know what happened, but when she explains herself, she's very clear. she says, no, because if he was going to go confront somebody, he would have hung up the phone with me. that just makes good common sense, doesn't it? >> stay right here. >> i'm not going everywhere. >> we're bringing in a couple more voices. we'll get a break in. when we come back, i want to talk about some of the language shell used, some of the colorful language that was used and some of it perhaps is a generational divide. you look at the defense attorney and look at a younger generation. it is acceptable? how would that sit with the jury? we'll talk about that next. [ panting ] we're headed the same way, right? yeah. ♪ [ panting ]
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and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? let's add ryan smith to the panel here. ryan smith joining us today alongside holly hughes. good to see you. as we continue this conversation, continue watching what's happening playing out in sanford, florida. i want to talk about a couple things that this key witness, rachel jeantel had mentioned. she was basically describing, this was yesterday, it started yesterday and came back today during cross-examination. she was, as you pointed out, she was an ear witness. she was relaying to the courtroom what trayvon martin had said to her in describing who we now know was george zimmerman because he believed he
was being followed and so he called him a crazy, well today it was a crazy, creepy cracker. >> uh-huh. >> something to that effect. the issue is the word cracker. >> right. >> she said that this was -- that he was being targeted because it was a race thing, but then she said the word cracker, itself, wasn't racial. did you hear that. >> yeah. it made total sense to me. you know why? a lot of black folks all over the country, a lot of southern folks, nothing wrong with that statement. there is a cultural divide that is going on in this trial that played out between rachel jeantel and don west. he's an older white guy, she's a teenage -- >> could not be further difference. >> she's explaining, this is what he said to me. that's how kids talk to each other. that's what they say when somebody is coming after them and look creepy. is she trying to say something about george zimmerman and his race? we think about it too deeply. kids are saying this guy's this, that guy's that. that's what she was trying to relay. when i keep hearing that comment come up, i think the problem
with this trial right now is that people, you wonder if that jury is going to get caught up in those words. five of those six jurors are white. are they going to take offense to that? really that was trayvon describing a situation. >> interesting you bring that up. i grew up in the south. hearing the word -- i would never -- that is absolutely an offensive term if i were to hear that. >> but he's not saying it to be offensive to george zimmerman. >> he's not being -- >> he's being distributive of what he sees. >> and also uses the "n" word in describing. he uses cracker and the "n" word to describe this. >> that's another cultural divide. in the black community, that word is going to be used from time to time to describe somebody who's coming at you, to describe a bunch of different things but it's not meant to be offensive to somebody else. in other words, but yourself in trayvon martin's shoes. he feels like somebody is following him. he doesn't know why. it's late. this is a person of another race. for a lot of black folks, that makes him uncomfortable. we're not going to stay, this wonderful gentleman seems to be following me and i don't know
why. nobody talks like that. >> one of the big distinctions, ryan snuck if in there, i want to make sure people catch it, he was not saying it to george zimmerman. he wasn't saying, hey, cracker, are you following me? he's talking to his friend. it was like we were saying earlier, the language you might use with your friends at the dinner table is not how you're going to address another person. and what strikes me, and i said this last night and got tons of hate tweets. you know, i said, cracker doesn't concern me as much as the word creepy concerns me because what it gives us, brooke, is a glimpse into the mind of trayvon martin when this is all happening. for a young teenage boy to say someone is creepy, and he's talking to a woman who he probably wants to impress, he's not saying, oh, some punk cracker is following me. i'm going to find out what his problem is. he's like, hey, this creepy guy is following me. you can tell his mindset is one of fear. one of, is this guy stalking me? and let's all be real frank about this. he's not a cracker.
he's a hispanic fellow. okay? so, i mean, we completely missed the mark here. and i'm not excusing what language young people say. of course we want to raise our young people to be respectful. >> it's spur of the moment. the guy's coming after him. he's concerned. he uses this language. >> he wasn't saying it to zimmerman. >> let me hit pause on this conversation quickly and just veer back to the trial. and what's happening right this moment. again, this woman is on the stand. she is testifying. she was an eyewitness that night. she's a real estate agent who lives in the neighborhood. they're playing a 911 call. after she heard something happen, she picked up the phone. here's the call. >> you're in sanford? >> yes. >> is it a male or female? >> it sounds like a male. >> you don't know why? >> i don't know why. i think they're yelling help, but i don't know. just send someone quick. >> okay. does he look hurt to you? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on.
>> you think he's yelling help? >> yes. >> all right. what is your -- [ gunshot ] >> just, there's gunshots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> how many? >> just one. come here. >> is he no longer yelling? >> i don't know. jeremy, get in here now. jeremy, get up here. >> all right. is he right outside 1211 twin tree lane? >> yeah, pretty much out the back, yeah. >> is he in front of it or behind that address? >> he's behind my house. >> okay. stay away from the windows. >> i don't hear him yelling anymore. do you hear anything? >> no, i don't because i'm hiding upstairs. there was a gunshot right outside our house.
you obviously sent somebody, right? >> yes, it's in dispatch. what's your name and phone number? >> my name is jenna. >> all right. you've been listening to this 911 call which they played not too long ago in court. she's still on the stand. this is jenna lauer. you're hearing the screams. >> right. >> what are you -- are you hearing help? >> yes. in those screams, you hear somebody yelling if help repeatedly. then you hear the altercation going on in the background. so this is the actual moment, this is what the jury now is listening to and trying to figure out who is screaming for help. this goes all the way back to the evidence that's not going to be allowed in. nobody is going to testify about who was screaming for help. the jury is going to have to hear this, hear each witness, and make that choice for themselves. >> is it for the juror? >> no expert is going to testify. >> right. no expert. >> because what happened was, they had all these what we call fry hearings in the law which is basically the judge is going to decide, is this scientifically reliable evidence? she said, no, the test that the experts used to say, it's
trayvon or it's george, aren't scientifically reliable. however, we will see lay witnesses take the stand. you know, i expect trayvon martin's parents to take the stand. and they will say, i believe that's my son. and then, of course, we may see the defense put somebody up to say -- >> i'm curious if that would be beneficial to put george zimmerman on the stand so the jurors could hear his state to be able to deduce, themselves. >> would it be the same? that's a heightened state. there he's talking. this is where the rubber meets the road. >> will the defense have him scream in court, do a re-enactment? i want you to scream at the top of your lungs, george. that way it comes down to the jury says it is, it isn't, it sounds like, it's not. >> a lot happening in a courtroom in sanford, florida. a lot happening in a courtroom in massachusetts today. a lot of development in the shocking case of this former nfl star who was dropped by the patriots just yesterday. he was arrest eed now. he faces murder charges. we're getting word of text messages sent by the man you're looking at there, sent by aaron
hernandez's alleged victims moments before he was shot and killed. plus cnn learned police are investigating hernandez's potential involvement with a double murder that happened in boston last year. lots to catch you up on today. we're going to be talking to "boston globe's" nfl writer, next. ng, you're yellowing. crest whitestrips whiten as well as $500 professional treatments. guaranteed. crest 3d white whitestrips.
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breaking news today in the aaron hernandez case. the ex-nfl star will remain in jail until he is tried for murder. a judge today, the superior court judge, afrgreed with the district court judge yesterday. he was denied bail just a short time ago. he is accused of murdering this 27-year-old man by the name of odin lloyd. also a source close to this investigation tells cnn today that hernandez now is also being investigated in connection with a 2012 double murder in boston last july. plus, this. we are hearing reports of these chilling text messages from the victim, himself, from odin lloyd in the final moments of his life. "boston globe" is reporting lloyd texted his sister after 3:00 in the morning while hernandez allegedly drove him down this dark dirt road. let me just read you some of these texts. he texts this to his sister "did you see who i'm with?"
minutes later he texts three letters "nfl." his final text, "just so you know." i want to bring back in "boston globe" nfl reporter ben valin who's been all over this. ben, you cover boston sports. you covered him down when you were working in palm beach as he was at florida. but the big news today, the fact he was denied bail, no real surprise? >> no. really not a surprise. when you factor in the seriousness of the charges, murder 1 is as serious as it gets and factor in hernandez is a millionaire nfl player, has the means to travel, get out of the country. he's clearly a threat to flee at this point. not surprised at all to see the judge denied his request for bail. he's going to be in jail throughout this trial process now. just, you know, not a good day for hernandez. now, as you said, he's being investigated for another double murder, you know, and his nfl career is pretty much over at this point. not a good day for aaron
hernandez. >> i was following very closely the "boston globe" and the "boston globe" tweeting today. you've been all over this story. a couple of your colleagues have as well. when i was reading more about this double murder he's being investigated for, part of this article described that this now, this victim, odin lloyd, might have had some information according to you guys at the "boston globe," might have some information on hernandez as far as his involvement in that double murder in 2012. that was news to me. >> yeah. and that could tie into the motive a little bit more because right now there are a couple weaknesses in the investigators' case. one is they don't have the murder weapon yet, and two, the mote ive is a little weak right now. they say the victim, he was associating with people in a nightclub that hernandez already had a disagreement with and that led to a murder. so that's a little bit of a fly filmsy motive right now. however, we're reporting today investigators believe odin lloyd
might have some information pertaining to the double slaying from last year that they're now investigating hernandez about. so possibly there's a connection there. certainly that's very interesting. aaron hernandez said you can't trust anyone anymore. that's what he allegedly said right before the events of two weeks ago unfolded. so this is just a long, twisted case and i think we're kind of finding out now that aaron hernandez has had a lot of trouble with getting in fights with people at clubs and then being reckless with guns. he's had a lawsuit now where he's being sued for firing a gun. he had an incident in college where he was questioned. so clearly he's had a problem with some guns dating back several years. >> wow. ben volin with the "boston globe." we'll follow it along with you here as he's denied bail yet again. facing as you point out this murder one charge. thank you. we're going to take you back to sanford, florida, here in just a moment. as this george zimmerman trial is under way. he is faced with second-degree murder. you are looking at 19-year-old rachel jeantel. she was on the stand for the
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okay. let's take you back to sanford, florida. we've been following this trial. pretty stunning testimony the last couple of days specifically from this 19-year-old rachel jeantel. she was on the stand the majority of the day today and asked many, many questions by this defense co-counsel by the name of don west. let me play you one snippet of what they discussed of the racial nature of the case. here you go. >> you don't have any information from the news that this was a racially charged event? >> no. i told you i don't watch the news. >> okay. are you okay this morning? >> yeah. >> you seem so different than yesterday. i'm just checking.
did someone talk -- >> is that a question? >> yes. did someone talk with you last night about your demeanor in court yesterday? >> no. i went to sleep. >> could you tell me how wet grass sounds? >> wet. rolling all over it. >> when you describe the sound as you could hear wet grass, what is it that you actually heard that led you to make that opinion? >> somebody rolling all -- rolling on top of the grass. >> asked what wet grass sounds like. that was don west asking this question of this young woman today. holly hughes, ryan smith and
mark nejame joining me from florida. mark, let me begin with you here. we're going to continue to play more. we've asked so many people. let's start clearly her demeanor is different from what it was yesterday. the question was "what was does wet grass sound like?" is that fair? >> yes, it's cross-examination. you have a young man who lost his life and you have a young man who may send the rest of his life in prison. this is exactly what cross-examination is supposed to be about. she said she heard wet grass. that's not believable. she also said nobody coached or talked to her about her testimony yesterday. i'm sorry, what she's saying today is exactly the way you train or teach or get witnesses ready for trial, you tell them
you don't answer anything other than is asked of you. yesterday she went into a long dissertation and today she's doing exactly what she was supposed to do. >> what is the role of race if this trial? sunny hostin said it was the elephant in the room and it was the defense team who fought and fought to have the word racial removed from racial profiling. this whole discussion opened the door into this trial, the three words she said that trayvon martin used to describe george zimmerman. what was your -- how did you perceive that? >> i think there's two areas there. the first is is that the state has been -- i think it's a great state prosecution team. they're excellent lawyers. with that said, they've been very artful in their approach on the race issue. remember the judge's pretrial
ruling. she said they can use the word profile but they can't just talk about race but race is one part of the overall profiling. so we know now that the five other calls that zimmerman made are coming into evidence from the judge's ruling and four of those specifically identify a black male as the people that he was calling in. so the state's been very artful to really raise the issue of race but to do it through the back door. so i think then the second part of that is is that i think that the defense is in fact starting a bit of a character assassination on trayvon martin. they're trying to portray him not as the, you know, sweet, boy scout that many have picked up the idea from the media over the last year but, in fact, that he was something different than that and by his colorful language and the people he was associating with and the way he was talking is something the defense hopes will not endear him stronger to the hearts of
the jurors. i think it's a twofold process the defense is attempting to do there. >> there was another word, she used the "r" word when she was speaking to don west saying "are you retarded?" how did that sit with the six female jurors? that's next. [ chirp ] getty up. seriously, this is really happening! [ cellphone rings ] hello? it's a giant helicopter ma'am. [ male announcer ] get it done [ chirp ] with the ultra-rugged kyocera torque, only from sprint direct connect. buy one get four free for your business.
maybe if he decided to assault george zimmerman, he didn't want you to know about it. >> that's real retarded, sir. >> i'm sorry? >> that's real retarded to do that, sir, when you don't know the person. >> mark nejame, the "r" word used here, another offensive term. your thoughts? >> what else do you say about that? she used a slew of offensive terms. either the jury is going to forgive her realizing it's her or they're going to say it's unacceptable and she doesn't have the credibility to prove somebody guilty beyond a reasonable doubt with her testimony. two jurors or in their 30s, two in their 40s, two in their 60s. i can't believe they'll found this acceptable and give her any credibility. >> you talked credibility earlier. does this hurt her?
>> just because she's not likable done mean they can't found her credible. these are mothers. they understand you try and teach your children manners, we would like them to always be polite and say the right things, just because they don't say it properly doesn't mean they're not telling a true story. >> quick break. more live coverage of the george zimmerman trial out of sanford, florida after this. th as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi. an eye vitamin and multivitamin in one.
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. i'm brooke baldwin. thank you so much for being with me today. "the lead" with jake tapper starts right now. >> have you ever seen a witness make "yes, sir" sound so much like go to hell? she was the last person to talk to trayvon martin. and 30 counts, including 17 that could result in the death penalty. the surviving suspect in the boston bombing indicted today by a federal jury. and the senate is on the verge of finally passing a bill to overhaul