tv Crimes of the Century CNN July 1, 2013 12:00am-1:01am PDT
>> we will not forget. we will never know your pain, and we only wish that we would have stopped this to reduce the have stopped this to reduce the number of victims. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com one was world renowned, among the most gifted musicians in history. >> and one was a kid from georgia with no real talents or direction in life. >> everyone said he was a nice person. >> he wanted to bring attention to himself. >> they were as different as night and day -- two men intent on personal journeys that converged in a single shocking act.
>> i took five steps and fired five shots. >> i literally held john lennon's heart in my hand. >> it was an unthinkable crime that left millions in mourning. the murder of john lennon, next. it's a chilly night at around 10:45 p.m. police respond to a report of a it's a chilly night at around 10:45 p.m. police respond to a report of a shooting at the dakota, an exclusive apartment building on manhattan's upper west side. >> when we drove up to the dakota, there was a man standing in the middle of the street pointing into the archway saying that is the man doing the
shooting. we get out of the car. we approached the archway. on each side of it, looked in and saw a man with his hands up. >> five shots have been fired. all but one have found their target. >> so i grabbed the guy around the neck, and the doorman, jose, said, he tease one, he tease only one, and he shot john lennon. i was totally shocked. i threw him up against the wall and i said, "you did what?" >> former beatle john lennon has been shot with four hollow point.38 caliber bullets at close range. police officers rush lennon to nearby roosevelt hospital, but it's too late. shortly after 11:00 p.m., the emergency room doctor pronounces john lennon dead. >> former beatle john lennon was gunned down in front of his exclusive -- >> and he was gunned down when he entered the gates --
>> and the news gripped the shock waves -- >> it was really shocking. 40 years old, john lennon of the beatles, how could he have been dead? how could this have happened? >> the city was in shock. not just people of my generation that grew up listening to their music in the '60s. >> but everybody felt on so many levels it with was wrong. >> and it was terrible. for so many people who didn't know john felt, and it hit so hit home so much more because he befriended me, and he didn't have to. >> and in new york, they have come up with new facts about the killer of john lennon. >> the killer is identified as mark david chapman, a 25-year-old drifter from hawaii. >> nothing in the background set
off or would have caused to set off any alarm bells whatsoever on chapman. >> chapman was apparently well liked by most of the people he knew, and the most common description was open, friendly, a hard worker with a ready smile. >> i couldn't believe anybody would be mad at him. >> i couldn't believe it was mark. >> he was a very normal person. >> very peaceful. >> fine. >> i couldn't have asked for anything better. >> most people can't believe he is the same person charged with killing john lennon. >> and everybody we interviewed and there were a lot, and every one said that he was a nice person and not capable of doing something like this. >> it was a tragic conclusion to an extraordinary life. john lennon, co-found over the legendary beatles was gone. during the 196. 0s, the beatles were the biggest rock group in the world. their influence and popularity were unparalleled.
>> i think that beatles spoke to young people in the '60s in a way that no other band did. they influenced people in so many different ways and not just musically, but politically and culturally and they were the touchstone for everything that was going on in the '60s. >> among the millions of american kids who revered the beatles was mark david chapman. he was a fan especially of john lennon. and during the heyday, the beatles were open with their experimenting with the psychedelic drugs. and so did chapman. >> there were times when he was described as the hippie nature and tried experimental drugs as many people in that time did. >> but in 1971, chapman becomes a born-again christian, and he quits drugs and rock and roll
and in particular john lennon. >> i became a christian, and that lasted about a year of genuine walking with him. through my life off and on, i have struggled with different things as we all do, and at those times, i would turn to the lord. >> chapman's newfound faith comes into conflict with his feelings about his former idol. according to friends, chapman was notably bothered by lennon's songs "god" in which he states that he does not believe in jesus, and the hit "imagine" and he said, "imagine there's no countries and religion, too" and chapman wrote the lyrics to the song altering "imagine john lennon dead." >> the defendant claimed that he was offended by the statement that john lennon had made that the beatles had become more
popular than jesus christ. >> it was an off of the cuff comment in an interview in 1966, but it caused a lasting furor. >> a lot of of people in the bible belt young and old took this comment to mean that you are bigger than jesus and bigger than god and this is blasphemy and he was totally misquoted. what he meant to say is that more people paid attention to the beatles than paid attention to jesus, and he was only making an observation about that, and not putting any context to it or not saying that it was a good thing or a bad thing. >> the beatles weather the storm. but in 1970, the band breaks up, and lennon embarks in a solo career with his new wife yoko ono, and a year later the lennons move to new york city and take up residence at the fabled dakota apartments. the dakota's gothic facade had been featured in the film "rosemary's baby" and revered by the most popular actors and
musicians. >> they viewed america as being a breath of fresh air for them at that time. little do they know what trouble awaits them. >> in new york, john and yoko adopt. and their attention drew the ire of the nixon administration. >> in the early 1970, there was a campaign against them to silence him. they were concerned that he would influence people who would be voting for the first time in the. 1972 election, and they didn't want that to happen. >> they were conducting surveillance operations. they were monitoring him. cars would follow him around. they did the whole intelligence enchilada.
>> after nixon was driven from office by the watergate scandal, the pressure on lennon let up, and then by 1975, he had withdrawn from the public eye. >> he was not in hiding. he was not a recluse, but what he was doing was devoting full time to raising his son, shawn. that was hi priority. >> during those days, lennon and ono became familiar figures in their neighborhood. >> he liked the informality of new york, and he liked the architecture and he liked the ability to walk. >> you would hear stories about how john would be walking with his family down the street, and people could walk up to him, and if asked about manhattan he said it is cool, because people don't bug you. >> he loved new york, because people didn't bug you, and they respected his privacy and shook his hand or say, hey, john, i love your music or something like that, but they did not
pester him. >> in 1980, lennon emerged from the retirement with a release of "double fantasy" an album he released with ono, and he had just turned 40. to many, it seemed that john lennon had entered a promising new phase, but this image of a happy contented young husband and father only served to enrage one young fan mark david chapman. >> he was in the house sitting naked listening to the stereo, listening to really loud beatles music, and invoking satan to help him have the power to kill john lennon. shortly before 11:00 monday night -- >> john lennon was gunned down more sore. and by the time i get up in the morning, i feel great!
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>> it was nothing that we learned from the extensive interviews and the investigation of the defendant's background that suggested that he was much different than any other 25-year-old person. >> at least on the surface. chapman grew up in georgia, the older of two children in what seemed like a typical suburban family. >> the defendant claimed in in interviews with psychiatrists that he had a rough childhood and less than ideal relationship with his father, but there is nothing in the background of such an extreme or extraordinary nature to suggest some latent insanity or mental disease or defect caused by some childhood trauma. >> after high school, chapman begins to drift through a series of jobs and half-hearted attempts at college. in 1977, he flies to hawaii where he plans to kill himself, and he reportedly tries twice, but fails. chapman stays in hawaii. over the next three years, he is
hospitalized at least once, gets married, takes a job in a print shop, then quicks, and then goes to work as an unarmed security guard at a high-rise apartment as a security guard. chapman identifies closely with the books protagonist, and one who rails against the phonies he encounters. chapman claims that by the summer of 1980, he was coming unhinged. >> j.d. salinger who has been reclusive for years wrote "the catcher in the rye" and read by and admired by millions, and wonders what he must be thinking watching this? >> in 1992, larry king interviewed mark henry chapman via prison. >> mark, why are you blaming a book? >> i am blaming myself for calling inside of the book.
i want to say that j.d. salinger and "catcher in the rye" did not cause me tkieone. in fact, i wrote j.d. salinger to tell him he did not cause this. >> and then in an article when he reads about the upcoming release of lennon's new album. >> i saw him on the top of the dakota and you are familiar with the that building and it is sumptuous, and i find myself being angry seeing him on the dakota, and i say, that phony, that bastard and i got that mad, and i took the book home to my wife and i said, he is a phony. >> this is the calendar that leads you right through the manic months before lennon's death.
>> writer jim gaines spent hundreds of hours between 19984 and 1995 interviewing mark chapman. >> you can see that it is crazier and crazier with the crossings outs, and the things to do. >> chapman told gaines for years that his mind had been like a war zone occupied by opposing forces that he described as the big people and the little people. >> he had a whole population of little people living in his head to whom he gave instructions, who had meetings about what his activities should be. i mean, it was extreme. >> seething with anger, chapman buys a five-shot.38 caliber charter arm special revolver. >> the gun used to kill john lennon was traced to j. and s enterprises a block away from the honolulu police department, and the records show that the gun was purchased by chapman this year, and it shows that he
paid $197 in cash for the gun. >> just before buying the gun, chapman had quit his job as a security guard. when he signed out for the last time he inscribed the name john lennon in the condominium logbook and then he crossed it out. six days later on october 29th, mark chapman flies to new york city, armed with the gun he bought in hawaii. he stakes out the dakota and waiting for his chance to take revenge on the hero he believes has betrayed him, but john lennon is not the only potential victim. chapman, it seems, has backups. >> so he brought the gun with him and came to new york, and he had planned at that point to kill someone who was a celebrity, and in order the bring attentn to himself. >> lennon wasn't his only target. he had a list of substitute targets if you will.
if he could not get to lennon, then he would have attempted to kill walter cronkite, johnny carson, george c. scott, jackie kennedy onassis or marlon brando. any of these people were his potential targets after lennon. lennon was his first choice. >> even so, chapman's agenda included a wild scheme to kill scott while the actor was on stage in a broadway show. >> the defendant said he had front row seats, and the plan was to stand up in the mid of the show, take his gun and fire into the body of george c. scott. it was not a particularly detroit plan, because when he went to the gun store in order to have bullets and have ammunition for his gun, he was told in new york you cannot buy ammunition for your gun. >> so after two weeks in new york, he flies back to hawaii,
and he reveals to his wife that he is obsessed with john lennon, and he plans to kill him. she convinces him to have a meeting with his psychologist, but he doesn't meet it. and then he buys five hollow point bullets. >> this is not someone who is wanting to assault somebody or cause injury. this is someone intent on committing murder. .
group of fans hovering near the entrance. chapman will spend the next two days waiting for john lennon. >> who was mark david chapman? >> on dedecember 8th, 1980, mark david chapman was a very confused person and literally living inside of a paperback novel, j.d. salinger's "the catcher and the rye" and between taking a taxi back and forth to hawaii and back and forth between killing an icon. >> and then on the morning of december 8th, he calls his wife. then he takes out the bible from his suitcase and takes out some paper and writes "the gospel according to john." and then at 8:00 a.m., he heads back to the dakota. >> i had a premonition that this
is the last time i would leave my hotel room. and i had not seen him up to that point and i was not even sure that he was in the building. i left the hotel room, and i bought ap copy of "the catcher and the rye" and i wrote underneath the holdman, this is my statement. >> paul gorish had come to know lennon personally. one of the photos was later used as the cover of lennon's posthumous single "archway." >> when he was there, he was holding a copy of "double fantasy" in his left arm, and he approached me and he said, are you waiting for lennon. i said yeah. he said, do you work for john? i said no. he said, oh, my name is mark. he said, i'm from hawaii.
what struck me strange is when he said that he had a southern accent. i said, well, if you are from hawaii, how come you have a southern accent, and he said, well, originally, i'm from georgia. i said, oh. so i said, where are you staying while you're in the city, and with that he turned to me and said, well, why do you want to know? >> sometime after 5:00 p.m., lennon and ono leave the apartment to go to his last recording session. and chapman silently hands lennon his copy of "silent fantasy." >> and john turned and said to him, "do you want me to sign that?" he nodded and john took the album, and john said, "do you have a pen?" he handed him a pen. john started to sign the album, and i had my camera on my neck,
and it looked like a good picture, so i looked through the view finder, and i took the photo. that is the photo of john signing the album for his killer. >> and he looked at me, and he said, is that all? do you want anything else? and i felt then and now that he knew something subconsciously that he was looking into the eyes of the person that was going to kill him. >> once lennon and ono leave for the recording studio, only chapman and gorish and the doorman remain. after 11:00 a.m., gorish calls it a night. the guy mark came over to me and said, are you leafing? and i said yes. and he said, well you better not, because you might not see him again, and he said, well he might go to spain or something, and you might not see him again. >> and i wanted to be out of
there. and there was a part of me that didn't want to kill him. >> and you would have come back the next day? >> yes. >> after gorish leaves chapman waits in front of the hotel, and he waits patiently for 2 1/2 hours. >> i was sitting inside of the arch of the dakota building, and it was dark and empty and jose, the doorman, was out along the sidewalk and i see the limousine pull up, and i said, this it is. i stood up, and yoko got out and john was far behind, say 20 feet, and he got out and i nodded to yoko when she walked by me, and john came out, and he looked at me and i think that he recognized that here's the fellow that i signed the album earlier. and he walked past me. i took five steps towards the street, turned, withdrew my
i didn't even know if the bullets were going to work. and when they worked, i remember thinking, they are working. they are working. >> five bullets. the first misses hitting the window of the dakota, and the next two strike lennon in the left side of his back, and two more hit his left shoulder, and mortally wounded lennon staggers up five steps to the reception area, and collapses. >> i stood there with the gun hanging limply down on my right side, and jose the doorman came over, and he's crying. and he is grabbing my arm and shaking my arm, and he shook the gun right out of my hand and he kicked the gun across the pavement and had somebody take it away. i didn't know what to do, i was stunned. i took the "catcher in the rye" out of my pocket and i paced and i tried to read it, and i could not wait for the police to get there, because i was devastated.
>> the first police are on the scene within two minutes and take control of chapman. just after two more officers arrive, and immediately rush to aid lennon. >> officer frommeburger and palmer called him out to the radio car to take him to the hospital. first, there was no ambulance on the way at the time. my partner and i took chapman and put him in the radio car to take him to the station and that is where we read him his rights. >> dr. steven lin is on call at roosevelt hospital. >> two police officers came rush ing through the front door of the emergency department and literally carrying over their shoulders a limp body and they said, doctor, we can't get any vital signs. >> and with them was a abc producer from new york who had been in a motorcycle accident. >> and so i heard somebody saying, it is a gunshot, and we have him coming in. i remember asking when is it coming in, and they said right now. i remember seeing them trotting. >> we could not get any pulse,
no blood pressure and we had an unresponsive patient. >> they literally brought him into the room i am lying outside of, and some people, and other medical people ran into, and closed the curtain. >> we didn't know who the patient was at the moment of time, and the nurses took the wallet out, and one of the nurses said, this is john lennon. >> and one of the people next to the police officer said, it is john lennon. >> we looked at the body in front of us, and all of us said, this is cannot possibly be john lennon. but it was. >> i heard the sobbing bepind me, and i can see this woman brought in by a police officer. i asked the police officer who is that and they said it is yoko ono. >> the only option, and the only way of possibly making him survive is to make an incision
into the chest and see if there is some way to see if we could stop the bleeding. >> the only vivid memory is just john's chest open, and it is just blood. literally saw the doctor's hands inside of his chest. >> we opened the chest, and we found a chest full of blood, and all of the blood vessels leaving the heart were completely destroyed. we pumped fluid into the heart, and i literally held john lennon's heart in my hand and we massaged the heart and tried to restore flow, but there was absolutely nothing that we could do. we pronounced john lennon dead on arrival at the roosevelt hospital that evening. silence fell over the emergency department. staff began to cry. we didn't quite know how the respond or how to react. it became my job to walk down to the end of the hall to talk to yoko ono. i walked into the room, and i
think that she knew as soon as i entered the door what i was going to say. >> there is muzak playing and about 10 to 11:00 the song "all my loving" starts to play and the song ends and two minutes later, there is a scream, and shrill woman's voice screaming "no, no, no oh, no." it went on for a minute and a half and constantly repeating, and it was silence. >> and finally the head nurse brought in her husband's ring and gave it to her and she understood the finality of the act that had occurred. she asked me, please, delay making the announcement, because my son sean is at home sitting in front of the tv and i don't want him to find out about his father's son while watching a tv program. >> i don't think that it really hit me until i heard that muzak playing "all my loving" and i called the newsroom and told them that john lennon had been
shot, and they passed it on to abc network and they made the decision to pass it on the howard cosell and frank gifford, and howard cosell broke it on monday night football. >> by 11:35 p.m., the word was out and almost immediately, mourners were gathering outside of the dakota for a candlelight vigil and they sang beatles' songs and sang "give peace a chance." >> i felt like an incredible weight was pressing down on me, and it was extraordinarily sad. extraordinarily sad. >> it impacted all of us so severely, and it was as if a friend and family member had passed away. >> i think that one of the reasons that we felt that way about him is that because we had
embraced him as our own. >> on december 10th, john lennon was cremated in a private ceremony. four days later, on december 14th, millions of people around the world responded to yoko ono's request to pause for five minutes of silence to remember john lennon. over 225,000 people converged on new york central park. for those ten minutes every radio station in new york city went off of the air.
on the morning of december 9th, mark chapman, the man who killed john lennon was put in a bulletproof vest and taken by van to the new york city criminal courts building. while chapman was awaiting arraignment, police were searching his hotel room looking for clues that might reveal his motive. >> in the hotel room, we found kind of a display of all of his stuff, and we had a bible, a passport, photos, and a tape by todd rundgren and a receipt of the "wizard of oz" and the ymca
there. >> the stuff was laying there, and laid out in such a way that he had intended for somebody to find it. exactly the way it was laid out. >> how do you feel about taking this case? >> i feel good about it. >> jonathan marks a former u.s. assistant attorney is appointed to defend chapman. >> jonathan marks is asked about whether or not he might ask for a change of venue for the trial, and his response was certainly not at this point, and he said even if we held the trial in paris, people would know about it. the fact that people are angry with mr. chapman and the fact that you are going to represent him, what do you feel about this? >> i'm a lawyer representing a client. >> this is not a whodunit. there were witnesses who saw him commit the crime, and it was
clear from the beginning that the defendant would lodge an insanity defense. >> and the first order of business was to have an insanity examination. >> is the front entrance of the bellevue hospital where the killer of john lennon is being held by extraordinary precautions. >> i was asked if i could help the attorney on the chapman case. i agreed. >> forensic psychiatrist dr. daniel schwartz interviewed mark david chapman on eight different cases for the defense. clearly, he knew what he was doing, using the gun in an all too accurate way. he knew it was a gun. he knew it could kill. and he pointed it at the intended victim, and unfortunately, it work. the question in the case is whether the mental illness
impaired his ability to appreciate that what he was doing was wrong. simply being somebody mentally ill does not acquit somebody, but it is only if the mental illness impairs his ability to know and appreciate the nature and the consequence of the conduct or that it is wrong. >> dr. schwartz believes that chapman's mental illness began in childhood. >> mr. chapman became seriously withdrawn at about the age of 9 or 10. it was about that age that he began imagining a whole world of people, little people. in the living room n the walls of his living room, and he was their emperor, their commander, and it was my clinical assessment that he was both a paranoid schizophrenic as we
understood the definition in those days, and suffering from bipolar disorder. i truly believe that when he went after john lennon, he was suicidal. john lennon was himself had become himself. he believed that if he would kill himself that he would be reborn, and in killing lennon, he was killing himself. >> mark david chapman at that point was a walking shell who didn't ever learn how to let out his feelings of anger, of rage, or disappointment. mark david chapman was a failure in his own mind. he wanted to become somebody important, larry. he didn't know how to handle being a nobody. mark david chapman struck out at something he perceived to be phony, and angry at to become something that he wasn't to become somebody. >> former assistant district attorney kim horgrefe did not buy it for a minute. >> he was narcissistic, and grandiose and he wanted to bring
attention to himself. the fact that john lennon was the victim here is simply because john lennon was publicly available, and others were not. he was not crazed. he was not obsessed and he was not entitled to the insanity defense, and we felt that he was criminally responsible, and he did not have a mental disease or defect, and whatever the mental state was, it did not prevent him from knowing the nature of the conduct and that it was wrong. >> with the evidence at hand, a grand jury indictment is expected. >> on june 22nd, 1981, just six months after the murder and the day that the trial is set to begin, chapman changes the plea to guilty against the advice of his defense team. >> when the defendant entered the guilty plea, i was disappointed by that fact, because i was looking forward to the opportunity to prove the facts that we had assembled in a
public trial. >> mark david chapman was sentenced 20 years to life, and sent to the new york state penitentiary in attica. in his interview with larry king, chapman claimed to have recovered from the mental illness that had led to his crime. >> it was me, larry. i accept full responsibility for what i did. i have seen places where i am blaming the devil, and i hope that isn't kept going after this interview. i'm not blaming the devil, am blaming myself. in the major sense, it wasn't me, because i'm better now. i'm sorry for what i did. i realize now that i really ended a man's life. i just saw him as a two-dimensional celebrity with no real feelings. he was an album cover to me.
in the years since john lennon's death, many people have tried to make sense of his murder. in the early 1990s, journalist and author jack jones interviewed chapman at length for his book "let me take you down: inside the mind of mark david chapman." >> mark is an unusual individual. he's a sociopath, but he is much more intelligent than i think
most of these people. i think that his mind is capable of almost infinite self-deception. i believe that unlike a lot of people, he tries very hard to empathize with other people. he tries to sense that other people have pain also, but it's mostly intellectual sort of knowledge. he doesn't really feel it. he wanted to hurt the world. chapman told me at one point that he fantasized about getting his hands on nuclear devices and maybe blowing up a small city, injuring or killing thousands if not millions of people. >> chapman shot john lennon because he wanted his moment of glory in the sun. that's it. that's the conclusion that we came to. and i stand by it to this day. >> we're back with jack jones. how do you react to those who say we shouldn't interview the mark david chapmans? there shouldn't be television shows or books, that we focus attention on the wrong area. >> probably these are the same kind of people who say we shouldn't be writing about or studying aids because it's a
very unpleasant, deadly topic. we have an opportunity, particularly with a guy like mark chapman who has agreed to open himself up for exploration and study in hopes of preventing other mark david chapmans from coming along. and people who criticize journalists for exploring people like that i think miss the point. >> it gives him publicity for this horrendous act he committed. the killer has become as famous as the people they killed. and it's really unfortunate. >> as with almost any famous tragic event, conspiracy theories have sprouted up regarding the shooting of john lennon. the prevailing scenario has mark david chapman as a patsy, programmed by mysterious government operatives to kill lennon. >> there was absolutely no evidence suggesting that he was assisted or aided by any other person. he was simply someone that acted alone and without assistance of other people.
>> i've been through every fbi document in john's file. there is not one shred of evidence to suggest that the u.s. government had the least interest in john after 1972. >> what do you make of all the con spears theories that have come up in the last 12 years -- cia, mind control, et cetera? >> against the death of john lennon? >> yeah. >> hogwash. >> no one asked you to do it? no one prompted you to do it, no cabal, nobody? >> no, this was me doing it. >> more than 30 years after killing john lennon, mark chapman remains in prison. he first became eligible for parole in the year 2000. he has been denied at least seven times since then. >> i think it's best for mark chapman to stay in psychiatric care as he is. he committed a heinous act. whether or not he has been treated or cured, i can't tell you. i don't know.
he did something that was horribly wrong. he changed the track and the life of the world in my opinion. i think he needs to stay where he is. >> this guy murdered him. he shot him in the back, which is what people don't realize. he shot him in the back. he is a coward. >> i don't think the killer of john lennon should ever be paroled. the damage that he wreaked on a wife, two sons, beatles fans around the world, i can't imagine there is anything that he could do or say that would warrant parole. >> john lennon's widow, yoko ono, has repeatedly opposed chapman's release from prison. >> my husband john lennon was a very special man. a man of humble origin. he brought light and hope to the whole world with his words and music. he tried to be a good power for the world and he was. he gave encouragement, inspiration, and dreams to people regardless of their race, creed, and gender. for me, he the other half of the sky.
we were in love with each other like the most vehement of lovers to the last moment. for my son, he was the world. that subject shattered when the subject pulled the trigger. for julian, was losing his father twice. for people of the world, it was as though the light went out for a moment and darkness prevailed. with his one act of violence in those few seconds, the subject managed to change my whole life, devastate his sons, and bring
deep sorrow to the world. >> in 1985, new york city dedicated an area of central park directly across from the dakota as strawberry fields for one of lennon's most famous songs. countries from around the world donated trees, and the imagine mosaic centerpiece was a gift from the city of naples. tangible proof that the legacy of john lennon transcends borders and generations. >> i was walking down the street the other day, and i saw a kid probably no older than 16 or 17 wearing a t-shirt with john lennon's face on it. and i thought this is really interesting. here it is, he died more than 30 years ago. and for this young person, he still had resonance. >> the best way to remember john lennon is to be inspired by his optimism, his integrity, his clarity, and his love for his
family. he was the real deal. if you listen to the news these days, you might think america is a pretty divided if you listen to the news these days, you might think america is a pretty divided nation. you're either for gay marriage or against it. you're either pro-life or pro-choice. you're a republican or a democrat. but when it comes to guns, things get a little trickier, because no matter which side of the line you stand on, you can't ignore the news about gun violence. >> another deadly shooting. >> the gunfire erupted at this birthday party. >> two people are dead. >> shot a 35-year-old -- >> 7-year-old boy. >> opened fire on the street with tons of people around. >> more than 11,000 homicides were committed with firearms in 2011 alone. mass shootings and gun suicides are on the rise in the united states.
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