tv Self Defense CNN July 4, 2013 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
>> new york. >> excellent, excellent word to describe that. >> that does it for me, i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. please have a happy and safe fourth of july celebration later tonight. the news continues next on cnn. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening. i'm randi kaye, coming up, a cnn special self-defense or murder, the george zimmerman trial. first, here's the news you need to know right now. president obama met today with his national security team in the white house situation room to discuss the ouster of egyptian president mohammed morsi. president obama urged egyptian officials to avoid arbitrary arrests of morsi and his supporters. he is detained at the ministry of defense. warrants have been issued for the muslim brotherhood. the south african government is denying reports that nelson man dale is in a vegetative
state. officials say the former president remains in critical, but stable condition. court documents show mandela's health declined so sharply last week that his family was advised by cross turn off his life support machine. mandela is 94 years old. paula deen is parting ways with the agent who helped make her a star. she thanked barry weiner for his dedication over the years. since deen admitted using the "n" word, a dozen companies stopped doing business with her. >> for the first time since she received new lung, the 10-year-old who sued to challenge national transplant rules is seen in the video mouthing hi and i love you. sarah received a second lung transplant after the first set of lungs failed. she still cannot breathe without the-a machine. now a cnn special, self-defense or murder, the george zimmerman trial.
the defense prepares to begin calling theirs. >> good evening. welcome to this ac 360 special report, the george zimmerman trial. the trial is heading into its final stretch. the prosecution calling the next to last witness sybrina fulton, trayvon martin's mother, expected to take the stand
before the prosecution rests. another big day in a trial that has had a big day. martin savidge starts us off. >> reporter: the symbol to many, the hooded sweatshirt trayvon martin wore is also a key piece of evidence. he found no trace of george zimmerman's dna on that sweatshirt, not even on the sleeves or cuffs nearest to the fifties the defendant says trayvon martin was hitting him with, and no zimmerman dna was found under martin's fingernails and what with about martin's dna? was it found on the gun which, by one zimmerman account, the teen actually reached for and
touched. >> swabbed or the dna that you developed from the pistol grip of the defendant's gun was positive for blood, correct? >> yes. >> and then there was a mixture. the major was matched the defendant george zimmerman. >> yes. >> and you were able to exclude trayvon martin as having dna on
the pistol grip, is that correct? >> yes. trayvon martin was excluded to being a possible contributor to this mix out grip. >> the hoodie was also tested by a firearms expert who said zimmerman's gun was actually touching the fabric when he fired the fatal shot. >> what did you find distance wise when you conducted the test with this particular sweatshirt? >> this as well was consistent with residues and physical effects of a contact shot. >> so again, evidencing that the end of the gun was against the material when it was fired? >> yes. >> the prosecution also pointed out the night he killed martin, zimmerman carried a fully loaded weapon with an additional round
chambered and ready to fire, but on cross-examination the defense got them to admit that was not out of the ordinary. >> you did not consider that to be an unusual occurrence, did you? >> no. >> earlier, the state wanted to put out that zimmerman not just wanted to be a cop, he was trying to become one, studying criminal justice in a local college. on the stand, a former professor described zimmerman as one of his best students and said he gave him an a. zimmerman said he knew nothing of florida's stand your ground law the night he killed martin, but the professor said the topic was a frequent source of discussion. >> i wanted to teach the class from a practical standpoint where these students could really relate anda, ply it to their own lives. with florida and other states, they have what's called the stand your ground law which evolved from the castle doctrine through case law. >> and did you cover that specifically? >> yes.
>> did you discuss specifically self-defense and stand your ground laws in the connection of violent crimes such as murder? >> yes. >> it was the testimony of another professor that provided one of the trial's few lighter moments, unable to testify in person, gordon pleasants appeared in court via skype. [ indiscernible ] >> first, there were sound problems and then came the digital demons. >> is that his phone? >> it's someone calling. >> his face and name were carried on national tv, people began purposely calling him, disrupting the testimony. the frustrated judge ordered the video call stopped with the defense finally catching on to what was happening. >> there's now a really good chance that we're being toyed with. >> in court the judge announced the state had planned to rest. that didn't happen and now won't happen until at least friday after the fourth of july
holiday. martin savidge, cnn, sanford, florida. >> as always, we put out the criminal team, along with legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, sunny hostin and los angeles county d.a. marcia clark and her latest "killer ambition," on the defense side, mark kneejam and mark geragos and an inside look at how the criminal justice system works and sometimes doesn't. dr. kobilinsky, i want to start with you. the firearms expert toughered that the gun was touching trayvon martin's sweatshirt when george zimmerman fired and that's not what the autopsy found. >> i find it mysteriously. she test fired with the same ammunition. she used the same garments to do her test fire, and she concluded that it was a contact shot. remember that there are two garment, the hoodie sweatshirt and an underlying sweatshirt and then the body.
she's looking at gunshot residue, burned and unburned particles, and the tearing and singeing of the fibers around the hall. the conclusion makes sense to me that it was a contact shot. what's mysterious is that the autopsy report indicate not that it was a close shot or contact shot, but rather it was an intermediate distance shot which tellses me it was probably between six and 18 inches. >> who is likely to be more accurate? >> i would tend to think that the ballistics expert is more accurate because that bullet had to penetrate both garments before it hit the body. you wouldn't necessarily see the stipelling which is the burning and the abrasions in the skin around the hole, the bullet hole and therefore, if you see those stipelling mark, sometimes called tattooing then you can conclude the distance. >> does it really matter, the distance in this? >> it doesn't because both would
indicate a close end shot and a struggle. >> it supports george zimmerman's story. >> sunny, the prosecution had dna found on the gun, and i want to play that for our viewers. >> the swab or the dna that you developed from the pistol grip of the defendant's gun is positive for blood, correct? >> yes. >> and then there was a mixture. the major matched the defendant george zimmerman? >> yes. >> you were able to exclude trayvon martin as having dna on the pistol grip. >> yes. trayvon martin was excluded to being a possible contributor to this mixture on the grip. >> yesterday he told him trayvon martin had grabbed the gun. is this a significant inconsistency at all? >> reporter: i do think it's a significant inconsistency for a couple of reasons. one, i was in the courtroom anderson, i cannot be ginn to tell you how into this witness
the jury was. they were leaning forward. they were taking notes and they even laughed with him. he was very engaging with some pretty dull information, dna information is not that captivating, but they loved him. i think it's a result of the csi effect that we talk about all of the time. people just like dna and they feel like it's definitive evidence and because of that i think that it may not show us what happened that night, but certainly it may tell the jury well, what zimmerman said happened couldn't have happened. trayvon martin couldn't have touched the gun because his dna was not on the holster and not on the gun as george zimmerman described it. so i think given that, my observations in the courtroom, i think it will be important. >> just because dna wasn't there it doesn't mean it wasn't washed away in the rain or that he didn't touch the gun. >> it's not just that. the kind of testing they do for dna is not high sensitivity testing and it's the ordinary dna testing.
so if you've got 15, 14, 13 cells you wouldn't ever see it. in other words, the limits of detection make it such that you cannot pick up small amounts of dna. also the rain could have washed away the dna. i'm not surprised by any of the findings by this expert. >> the dna expert also talked about swabs taken from under trayvon martin's fingernails. i want to play that part of the testimony. >> from the right, fingernail scrapings of trayvon martin. you did not find any of george zimmerman's dna there, is that correct? >> there was nothing for to trayvon marten. >> if you move to the fingernail scrapings, if you could tell us your finding as to that, sir. >> yes. the left hand was not tested for the possible presence of blood and did not have any staining on it whatsoever. i swabbed that for the testing and i did not get any dna results from that swab. >> marcia, why was that important for the prosecution?
>> it is important, i can't say it's critical. what it proves is that if george zimmerman, if people understand that george zimmerman that trayvon martin grabbed him by the head in a manner that might have caused george zimmerman's dna to get under his nails and slammed his head into the sidewalk you might expect some amount of dna to be under his fingernails, but it also might not. so i have to say, it's helpful to the prosecution and it's not a slam dunk and not a big ticket item and it is something to add to the evidence flat prosecution has presented to show that the contact might not be as zimmerman described. >> mike geragos, do you think this was ultimately a wash? the defense was able to get the dna expert to basically say just the fact that he couldn't find dna didn't mean there wasn't trayvon martin's dna on the
holster and the gun? >> i do think it's a wash. i can't tell you, lawrence will tell you how many times you will see and especially with guns and depending on what with the kind of surface is of it . it's very difficult to know when someone handles that gun to pick up the dna off of it or the fingerprints off of it or any of the it willtale signs. you'd be surprised at how often these test comes back negative. so i don't think it's of any great shake one way or another. >> mark, the prosecution established that zimmerman's gun wasn't made with an external safety button and it was loaded with the bullet in the chamber and the defense tried to counter this. let's play that. >> you stated that in person mr. zimmerman, since we know it was his gun, right? >> yes. >> would have wrapped it to have made sure it was ready to fire and then put another bullet in the bullet in the magazine to reload it.
is that current in your experience with dealing with firearms? >> i typically see a wide variety of -- >> sorry. >> i interrupted you. >> that's all right. >> you did not consider that to be an unusual occurrence, did you? >> no. as a matter of fact, every law enforcement officer here had a chance to see that is normal, that it is one wrapped in the chamber and a full magazine, correct? >> yes. >> military do that, correct? >> not sure. >> so, mark, if -- if the prosecution was trying to paint george zimmerman as trigger happy wanna be cop with a bullet in the chamber and another in the magazine ready to go, do you think the defense did a good job of countering that? >> yeah. it was very effective. it showed that it was not out of the ordinary. when you heard the state's opening and you heard the way they tried to portray george zimmerman that he's got this -- that this is a depraved mind and he's got this evil motive.
this just shows it was one way of many that you would, in fact, have this gun and it was not out of the ordinary and it was much to do about nothing. i think it was a good job of neutralizing. remember, neutralizing always goes to the side of the defense because it sustains burdens. so when you level something out that always hurts the state. >> dr. kobilinsky, from a forensic standpoint, was there anything important you felt today? >> there were no bomb sheshlgs none at all. i have a carry license and i don't carry my gun because i think it's too dangerous, but the fact that the gun is fully loaded, again, is not a surprise. if you're going to carry a gun, you have to be prepared to fire it. i think the most safe way to handle a gun is don't carry it, but, you know, law enforcement will keep a fully loaded gun. i'm not shocked by anything here. no bombshells here. >> lawrence kobilinsky, i appreciate everyone else staying with us. we'll talk about laughter from george zimmerman. we'll tell you what led to it
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>> a rare show of emotion in george zimmerman and it came from a key witness to what was inside zimmerman's head. he reasonably feared for his life from serious injury and establishing that he wrongfully thought trayvon martin as another one of those in his word, f-ing punks that wouldn't go away and prosecutors have fought to show that zimmerman was well aware of florida's statutes on self-defense before he shot martin and not after, as he claimed. today they called a military lawyer who said florida's stand your ground law was indeed a
topic of discussion in the class and something the defense tried to blunt by turning the focus to the fear they said zimmerman felt that night. >> on the issue of injuries, though. when you talk about that with the class and your understanding of the law is that the focus is what's going on in the person's mind, not whether they have actually been injured. it's the fear of the injury, is it not? >> it's imminent injury. or -- excuse me, imminent fear. so the fact alone that there isn't an injury doesn't necessarily mean that the person did not have a reasonable apprehension of fear. the fact that there were injuries have a tendency to show or support that that person had a reasonable apprehension of fear, but the fact that there wasn't an injury at all doesn't necessarily mean there was a
reasonable apprehension of fear. >> you don't have to wait until you're almost dead before you can defend yourself. >> no. i would advise you probably don't do that. >> back with the panelist, sonny hostin and mark geragos. >> this is essentially what you were talking about yesterday when you guys were arguing over the extent of his injuries and as long as george zimmerman was scared by the extent of his injury, whether or not those injuries really were something that were as serious as maybe he thought they were, that doesn't matter. what matters is what he felt about them, correct? >> that's exactly why i don't understand this witness either. if you're the prosecution why do you put this witness on? he, in that little exchange gave precisely what we discussed last night is going to be the defense's argument. my guess, you're going to see the jury talk about this precisely this when they go back there first thing in their
deliberations. this is one of the key issues for them to understand that and the prosecution, their own witness cuts them off at the knees. >> marcia clark, do you agree with that? >> a little bit, but i understand why they put him on. they wanted to show the jury that george zimmerman knew the kind of story he had to tell in order to concoct a story that showed justifiable homicide. to show that he understood the law and what he would have to say. the professor is, of course, correct. the actual extent of the injuries is not definitive answers to whether or not the person reasonably believed he was in imminent danger and imminent death, but the problem here is that the nature of the injuries conflicts with george zimmerman's account. that's what's significant about these injuries and not whether or not they were death defying and that in itself is a red herring. the issue is whether george zimmerman was truthful when he said he bashed my head into the pavement repeatedly and smacked me and rained blows on me, that kind of thing -- whether or not that was true or whether he was
exaggerating it. >> couldn't they have accomplished the same thing by just introducing the syllabus itself? why did they bring this guy in and allowed this guy to bring in defense-oriented testimony out? >> i know, mark. i -- i can't -- -- >> you have no answer. >> i have an answer for that. >> i actually thought that it was helpful to the prosecution because we've got to remember the jury saw the interview that he gave to sean hannity and when sean hannity asked him, what about stand your ground law did you know about it? he said i didn't know anything about it. you know, i found out about it after the shooting. well, this witness just contradicted that. not only did he say he taught it. he taught it practically and george zimmerman was one of his best students that he gave him an a in the class. i can't imagine that the jury is not going to remember that. >> why not introduce his report card and the syllabus?
>> why not play that interview for the viewers. >> a lot of this case legally has to do with stand your ground. you've heard a lot about it and i was just curious, prior to this night, this incident, had you even heard stand your ground? >> no, sir. >> i wanted to teach the class from a practical standpoint where the students could really relate and take something from it and apply it to their own lives. you know, with florida and other states they have what's called the stand your ground law which evolved from the castle doctrine through case law. >> and did you cover that specifically? >> yes. >> did you discuss, specifically, self-defense and stand your ground laws and the connection of violent crimes such as murder? >> yes. >> so what does that -- i mean, mark, to sunny's point, that would seem to indicate that he was incorrect or not telling the truth during that hannity
interview. >> or he wasn't paying attention in class. >> he's an a student. >> he got an a. >> he wouldn't be the first a student who passed or got it without paying attention. >> he got an a. >> oh, my goodness. >> and that was an important thing, though. >> that's fair. >> the state's whole case is going to attack the credibility of george zimmerman. they've all o pined that he's not taken the stand and they'll show every single discrepancy and contradiction that they can to lay one atop of the other because that will be their argument and they have no other argument other than george zimmerman has been lying and he created this and he overreacted and they have to prove the overreaction to get a lesser included on manslaughter and that's why you're also hearing other things about a depraved mind knowing that they have a very, very small chance, if any at all, on a second-degree homicide. do they have to go ahead and
attack his credibility and do that by taking every statement they can and showing every discrepancy they can. the defense was allowing the criminal justice professor to testify because they say brought in zim areman's past. mark o'meara said in our interview yesterday on this program that if this evidence was allowed in, which it was, it could open up the evidence for to trayvon martin's past into the courtroom. i want to play what america o'meara said to me yesterday. >> think they stop bringing in what was in george's background, in his past to the table and it brings what trayvon martin to the table and all of his violent acts and some of the fighting that will get involved in and if all of that is not going to be on the table then what george did shouldn't come on the table. >> what mart of trayvon martin's past could come out as evidence. >> if you're going to let in
something for zimmerman then you should let something out for martin. the only way i can see and maybe jane can correct me under florida law. the only way i see that they're going to get him -- either get into trayvon martin stuff is if zimmerman comes up and testifies and kind of pushes this story a little bit farther because i don't think based on the kraent tape that they have introduced to this jury that this judge is going to let them go down. >> mark and jamie, do you agree with that? >> they didn't open the door. the judge was astute the way she ruled. she said this was the theer of prosecution and that they were attempting to establish and as always, it's valid in my opinion as far as cross-examination and impeachment. they came in through another angle and they didn't open the door as to character. they had the theory of prosecution and they used it under that and did not open up the door. i agree if zimmerman takes the stand and opens it up in another
area and it will be a back and forth and not going to happen and not with this judge and not with the defense and even thinking, in my opinion about putting him on the stand. >> he's never going take the stand. >> marcia and sunny, you agree with that? >> oh, god yes. there is no reason for him to do it. i can't see him doing any better on the witness stand than he's done through the statements that have been introduced. >> for more on the story go to cnn.com. sabrina fulton trayvon martin's mom is expected to be the last witness on friday and many believe it will be emotional tomorrow and we'll talk to the attorney of the martin family and more from our panel. the great outdoors...
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>> as we said, s&p sybrina fult on know is expected to take the stand before the prosecution rests. today they brought george zimmerman's past. darryl parks is an attorney for trayvon martin's family and he joins us now. mr. park, thanks for being on the show. earlier today there were thoughts that the prosecution would call sybrina fulton to testify. do you expect she will take the stand when the court resumes on friday? >> anderson, there is a strong possibility that she will take the stand. >> what about trayvon martin's brother. there are some who expect maybe he would be asked to testify as well. >> there is a very strong possibility he will testify. >> how important to the prosecution's case do you think their testimony is in terms of identifying whose voice it is on that 911 call? >> well, if they called him to the stand i would assume that it is very important to their case, however, i'm not the lawyer
trying the case so i would have to defer to their case, so they expect to get very strong testimony from them in this case. >> the state presented evidence about zimmerman's past and about his education and course work. when i spoke to mark o'meara yesterday he said he believes that opens the door for more discussion of trayvon martin's history. do you think that should be admissible, that one opens up the door to the other? >> not at all, and i think we have to remember here, in this particular case we know clearly that trayvon martin was trying to get away from george zimmerman and when he approached george zimmerman he asked him why are you following me? trayvon's past has nothing to do with that interaction which was the initial interaction. we really know that from what happened in this case, he was following trayvon and at least three different times came close to him and had an opportunity to say who he was and failed to do
so. you heard from the detectives quite possibly had he done that this situation would have never happened. so we think that his background and also you have to take into perspective that his interaction with the detectives where mark o'meara has come forth with the theory that trayvon martin -- excuse me, george zimmerman was participating with the officers. he was acting in good faith and all of the things he's done to bolster george zimmerman's testimony goes into the knowledge that he had and his experience in dealing with these type of self-defense situations and knowing that if he showed the parents are cooperating with the law enforcement that they would go to his benefit. he learned all of these things at his college that he attended. >> how concern ared you about the prosecution's case at this point? they are basically one day away from resting their case. there's a lot of analysts and former prosecutors and defense attorneys who are looking at this case and saying they don't see that the state has done a successful job of proving second-degree murder, perhaps
the jury would come back with the manslaughter charge. are you confident in the way the prosecution's case has unfolded and the testimony given to a lot of the prosecution's witnesses which they say has worked to the benefit of the defense. >> well, i have to tell you, anderson. i'm sitting in that courtroom every day and sort of like these other analysts who do not have the opportunity to witness the jury, do not have the opportunity to see all of the evidence and see the interaction and see the jurors and how they're responding to the evidence. i don't think -- i don't think they get the full body of it. >> so you think you're seeing something that the tv isn't showing? >> right. they can't see the jurors. i can see the jurors. i mean, i see when, for example, today when the expert was showing the contact of the gun, i saw every one of them except for one was engaged in writing. it was very powerful. someone sitting in l.a., he would never get that, but i saw
it. >> were you surprised by the testimony, for instance, the lead investigator in the case because a number of people who were observing it again watching them on television said that they had never heard of a police officer called by the prosecution give testimony that was so favorable to the defense? >> i think also we have to remember how this case unfolded in terms of the investigation interacting with the police department, the case being taken over by the florida department of law enforcement, somewhat evolving from the fbi. no one likes to come in and take over their case, but i think at the end of the day, though. you have to remember one thing that came out of his testimony is that he thought that george zimmerman was exaggerating his injuries and so you have to take -- it's an up and down thing. >> so you think there may be ill will on the part of the lead investigator to the way he was taken off the case or the way this case was handled? >> no, i wouldn't say that. i wouldn't say there's ill will
and because he had mixed emotions and at the end of the day he wanted them to be charged at least with manslaughter and i would rest my pon that. >> darryl parks, i appreciate you being with us. >> thank you. >> back to our panel, sunny hostin, marcia clark, and mark nejame and mark geragos. in interviewing the attorney for the family there's only so much i guess he would say. i'm not sure how much he wants to be forthcoming and he did seem to indicate that there may be or he perceives perhaps some satisfaction on the part of the lead investigator toward how the case was handled. >> he did seem to hint at that. he didn't want to come right out and say it, and i'm not sure what the truth of that is. the jury is not going to know, i'm sure. i think that he made very important points. number one, that -- that he fement even at the time that george zimmerman exaggerated trayvon martin's aggression,
conduct and injuries and he also, he also made it clear he would not have stopped trayvon martin or thought anything suspicious in his behavior as described by zimmerman. he made very strong points for the prosecution. he made some other points that the defense has been able to parlay, but let me point out one more thing that he said that i thought was extremely important to remember. he said we can't see the jury's reaction to what's going on in court and that is a very important point. we can't and sunny can, and that's a good thing. >> sunny -- >> the problem is interpreting what they're doing, taking note, but what are they writing? but still, that's an important thing to remember and i remember feeling that way myself, you can't see what i can see. i see when they sit forward and i see when they sit back and that matters. >> sunny, you're sitting in the courtroom and you see that as well. >> absolutely. that's why my perspective is so different than everyone else. i am sitting in the courtroom
with the jury and they've been very engaged and a lot of times when the prosecution is asking questions, they are looking at the prosecutor when the defense attorneys are asking questions, they're not really looking at the defense attorneys and a lot of times they're looking at the witness. i feel that i have a different perspective because i'm in the jury room. the state has put on a pretty compelling case to those jurors. >> you're the only one sitting there in l.a., but he did say l.a. >> i was going say i'm in berkeley today, so it was a reference. >> do you think that's a valid point that the tv doesn't show the jurors and therefore were not in the room and the perception may be different? >> i absolutely think that your perception of what the jurors are doing is better if you're looking at the jurors. i absolutely disagree that you can read the jurors with any kind of specificity. i can't tell you how many times
i thought somebody was with me who wasn't or that somebody was against me who wasn't. we often joke in the office it's like reading tea leaves to try and figure out what it means when a juror is writing or what they're not writing or anything else. they can be totally engaged and they can be totally against you. so i just don't buy into that. i think it is important to be able to watch the testimony as it comes in, but anybody who claims that they can figure out what the jurors are thinking and the evidence comes in and they've got better psychic powers than i do. >> i think i do, mark. >> i've been in the courtroom, and what i observed is very simple. you've got one of the jurors who takes notes for every single thing that comes out. you have one juror who outwardly appears to be disinterested and the other three or four that takes notes at certain times enter mittently. it's like geragos was saying,
unless you're a master poker player, do they have a good hand or bad hand? you can't read those things and you don't know how to interpret it and i will tell you this is an engaged jury, by and large at least the five of them that i can see they seem to be following us and if that's true both sides will play to that. >> george zimmerman's family has stood with him throughout this case and maintaining that he's acted in self-defense and we'll take a look at the zimmerman clan and ask our panel whether any of them will be called to the witness stand. hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery.
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>> there's a strong possibility that we'll never know who screamed for help as captured during a neighbor's phone call the night george zimmerman and trayvon martin encountered each other. zimmerman's father testified at a pretrial hearing last year. >> were you able to identify whose voice it was screaming for help? >> yes, sir. >> and whose was it? >> it was absolutely george's. >> zimmerman's family has stood by him from day one, maintaining he acted in self-defense, insisting he's not the man prosecutors made him out to be. randi kaye reports. make no mistake, his family says he's no monster. his older brother said george zimmerman would never chase
anyone down. >> he's the neighbor that everybody would want to have. he's the kind of guy that sees somebody struggling with changing a tire and stops to help them or helps -- helps older people with their groceries. he goes out of his way to help people. he always has. >> reporter: at this bail hearing george zimmerman's mother testifying over the phone talked of him helping the homeless and mentoring african-american students. >> he's very protective of people. very protective of homeless people and very protective also of children. no matter the race. >> his father has tried to dispel rumors that george zimmerman is a racist who racially profiled trayvon martin the night he shot him. in a book he wrote about the case robert zimmerman senior wrote many of george's closest and most trusted friends are african-american, adding there is a tremendous amount evidence that george is absolutely not a racist in any sense of the word. in an effort to prove that
zimmerman himself has african-american root, the family released this photo exclusively to a cnn legal analyst, showing zimmerman's grandmother who is half black and his grandfather. that little girl on his lap is george zimmerman's mother, still, none of that squares with what zimmerman's cousin told police in this audio recording. >> i was afraid that he had done something because the kid was black because growing up, they've always made -- him and his family have always made statements that they don't like black people if they don't act like white people. >> his immediate family has always stayed on message. when this is all over they hope people will conclude that george zimmerman is a nice guy. his father likes to point out george grew up in a close family with one brother and one sister raised in a religious catholic home. he was an altar boy for seven or eight years. the priests thought so much of him, his father says he gave him
his first job in the rectory. that's the george zimmerman his family wants the world to know. in terms of his son's injuries, george zimmerman's father describes them for the court. >> his face was swollen quite a bit. he had a protective cover over his nose. his lip was swollen and cut, and there were two vertical gashes on the back of his head. >> robert zimmerman senior spoke to wofl in shadow for his safety early on and painted a picture that supported his son's claim of self-defense. >> trayvon martin said something to the effect of you're going to die now or you're going die tonight, something to that effect. and he continued to beat george and at some point george pulled his pistol. >> if any of the zimmermans are called to testify, a letter written by his mother might provide a preview of what they might say on the witness stand.
written earlier this year on the anniversary of her son's arrest, zimmerman's mother wrote, april 11, 2012, will be forever remembered by the zimmerman family as the day the justice system failed us as americans, and as a consequence as innocent man was arrested for a crime he did not commit solely to placate the masses. randi kaye, cnn, atlanta. joining us again, sin hostin, marcia clark, mark nejame and mark geragos. mark, i mean, you think it's likely that it would be wise for the defense to call members of george zimmerman's family, specifically to talk about their claims that it is george zimmerman's claims calling for 911. >> i couldn't understand why they wouldn't and i might even book end it. if they put her on friday and i know that as mark says they don't want to start until monday
and they may go into the four corners stall, the old dean smith stall, if they do that then i would put him on on monday, but i don't think there's any down side to putting him on right after the prosecution rests with her. >> sunny, do you think having trayvon martin's mother and then maybe the father of george zimmerman, does that negate each other or because trayvon martin's parents have been in that courtroom every day and the jury has come to see them and at times they've gotten up when the testimony is too emotional and too difficult or too graphic, do you think one is a more powerful witness than another? >> you know, i do. i think that we have to remember that there are six women on the jury and we have to remember that five of them are mothers. they are going relate to another mother telling them a mother knows her child's voice especially in distress. it's something that as a mother
myself i understand. i also want to say that i wouldn't be surprised if they called trayvon martin's brother, javaris fulton. i trayvon martin. he's very well spoken. i think he would actually be a wonderful witness for the state and so i wouldn't be surprised if he would be called -- >> and you think -- >> to identify his brother's voice. >> that's what i was going to ask. you think he would be called to identify his brother's voice? >> absolutely because he talked about how close they were and grew up together. they even share add room. if anyone understands and recalls his voice, it would be his brother. if you have both his mother and brother saying the same thing, you have the benefit of having the mother and brother who looks like trayvon martin, who goes to college, looks like your everyday daguy. that would carry a lot with the
jury. what the prosecution needs to do before resting it's case and the breaking news in egypt. the u.s. embassy ordered non-u.s. personnel to evacuate. that ahead. we know it's your videoconference of the day. hi! hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality
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joining us again, sunny hosten, mark geragos. how long do you see this going? who do you see them calling, mark? >> i think -- my guess is it will be very short. i would think they will put on the father to testify exactly to what you just played and have been playing, basically identifying his voice on the scream. i think they may put on their own pathologist, although i don't really know at this point why they would do that and other
back field, but i dodn't think t would be a long defense case, i would imagine less than two days would be my guess. >> really? so they don't need a robust defense? >> i don't think so, this is a case that they have tried within the prosecution's case through cross-examination and turning the prosecution witnesses into their own and i just don't think mark will go there in terms of putting on a robust or lengthy defense. >> do you agree with that? >> that's exactly what will happen. they will close up holes, address inconsistency but the overall statements from zimmerman are correct. you will see a filibuster, you saw one today, they just don't happen in the legislature. they want to start the case on monday and take the deposition of daryl parks before they provide. so you'll see things dragged out a bit tomorrow and go into judgment of acquittal arguments and even though the judge wanted
them to end today and start tomorrow, i think in great likelihood they will drag out the day and more than likely you'll have them really commence the case on monday. >> and sunny, it's entirely possible for the jury, if they don't believe that the state has proved second-degree murder, that the jury themselves could convict on manslaughter, correct? >> well, if they are charged, yeah. if they are instructed that they can consider lesser included like manslaughter, i think that that's very possible. >> marsha, is that likely that they would be instructed? >> oh, yes. i mean, i can't imagine they wouldn't be. there are times when the defense wants to play on all or nothing game with the jury and say no, second degree, no manslaughter, second degree or nothing. it's a dicey questionable move on their part. i don't think they will do it. if they do, the judge can over rule and say i'm giving the instruction, there is substantial evidence to support and it give the lesser included
instruction. i fully expect expect to see it. >> that does it for this edition of "360." of "360." thanks for watching -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com fort benning,a in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. we know it's your videoconference of the day. hi! hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art.
good evening. i'm randi kaye, coming up an ac 360 special. the jodi arias trial. a deeply concerned president barack obama met with the national security team for a second day to discuss the oust of egyptian president mohamed morsy. they are urging officials to avoid any arbitrariry arrests of morsi or supporters. he's at the ministry of defense. the south african government is denying nelson mandela is in a veg staytive state. they say he's in critical but stable condition. it al