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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  July 7, 2013 7:00am-8:01am PDT

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told me they will be reviewing data and interviewing pilots in the coming days. the death toll in the crash stands at 2 with 182 injured. we will continue to follow the story and bring you live news conferences as they happen. thank you for watching "state of the union." right now, it is time for right now, it is time for "fareed zakaria gps." -- captions by vitac -- this "gps," the "global public square." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i am fareed zakaria in new york. after a week of great turmoil, it's another day of tension in egypt today with two big competing rallies expected in cairo. we'll spend much of the hour looking at what the fragile future holds for egypt, the arab world's most populous nation, after president morsi was unceremoniously ousted earlier this week by the military. we'll start with the former national security adviser and richard haass and bret stephens on how to respond to a military coup against a dramatically
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elected government. then to cairo and the embattled political parties. i'll talk to a leader of president morsi's party and a leader of the opposition. we'll also check in on edward snowden. where will the nsa leaker go? venezuela? bolivia? nicaragua? and how in the world will he get there? all that and much more coming up. but first, here's my take. the events in egypt over the last week have been fascinating but also a bit bewildering. most of us don't quite know what to make of them. is what happened there a good thing or a bad thing? so, let's start with some basic facts. the government that was deposed in egypt was an elected government. mohamed morsi's freedom and justice party won the presidential elections, the parliamentary elections and a referendum to approve a new egyptian constitution. so, there's no getting around it, this was the party that represented the wishes of the egyptian people as expressed through the ballot box three
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times. on the other hand, the government ruled in an arbitrary and high-handed manner, and in many, many cases, violated human rights and outlawed its political opponents. president morsi announced that his decrees were above judicial scrutiny. he banned members of the previous ruling party from participating in politics for ten years. he did little about the attacks on egypt's christian minority. the muslim brotherhood of which morsi had been a lifelong member, had promised not even to seek the presidency or a parliamentary majority, and it reneged on both pledges, create this new freedom and justice party as a facade. in 1997, i wrote an essay describing the rise of what i called inliberal democracies, elected governments that were abusing individual rights and freedoms. the morsi government is a textbook example of such a regime. but it is important to note that the post-morsi regime in egypt, the current government does not look like one that is upholding
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liberty in any sense either. indeed, the more the arrests and the crackdowns continue, it looks like the old mubarak military complex crowned once more over the ashes of democracy. this has been egypt in the arab world's tragedy. these lands are caught between repressive dictatorships on the one hand and inliberal democracies on the other. and from this vicious cycle, there does not seem much space for genuine liberty to break out. so, what should the united states do to help the cause of freedom and stability in egypt? well, a suspension of u.s. aid right now would plunge an already bankrupt country into deeper chaos, but washington should announce that it will continue its aid for a limited period, say two months, while it determines whether the new government is, in fact, moving to restore genuine democracy in egypt. specifically, it should ask for three things -- the end to arbitrary arrests of the muslim brotherhood or any groups or people for political opposition.
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also, the end of the crackdown on the media in all forms. the writing of a new constitution through a process that includes all major voices in egyptian life. the scheduling of parliamentary and presidential elections in which everyone can participate, including and most especially the muslim brotherhood. if these conditions are not met, then washington will have no alternative than to recognize the reality that this is not the restoration of democracy nor a path to moderation and inclusion. this is a pretty old-fashioned military coup and it should be treated as such. if you'd like to look at the 1997 essay "the rise of ill liberal democracy," it's up on our website, still holds up pretty well. anyway, let's get started. joining me now is my panel for
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this hour. richard haass and bret stephens are here in new york. gentlemen, i'll get to you in a moment, but let's begin the latest in cairo. cnn's ben wedeman, who has covered the arab spring right from the start is overlooking tahrir square. ben, give us the latest. how dangerous do things look over there? >> reporter: certainly, egypt at the moment is on a nice edge. we have large demonstrations planned in support of the military, in support of the toppling of mohamed morsi. in this part of town. in other parts of town, supporters are gathering supporters of mohamed morsi. now, friday we saw clashes in cairo. there's much worry that we could have a repeat of what we saw friday, today as well, so nerves very much on edge here in cairo today. fareed? >> ben, we are all assuming that
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the ouster of morsi's government is now a settled fact, but there is this problem, which is that the muslim brotherhood is the single largest political force in egypt, as far as we can tell, and it has not reconciled itself to this reality. is it your sense that it is going to continue these marches, these demonstrations until it can get what? what is the game plan for the brotherhood? >> reporter: well, i think what the brotherhood is trying to do right now is to show that they have numbers as well, that they can mobilize tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people throughout the country and that their supporters are as convinced that they are right, as perhaps the other side is as well. but it's important to stress that at the moment, really, reg cairo is really pushing the brotherhood to the wall. we heard today that arrest warrants have been issued for two senior figures in the
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brotherhood, dr. isamin.medyan and another member of government, both very prominent figures within the brotherhood. those pro-brotherhood tv stations remain closed. and if you listen closely to the pro-government media at the moment, they're really stressing and stoking the anger of many ordinary egyptians at the brotherhood, and it does appear that the intention is to really crack down on them in the coming days. fareed? >> final thought from you, ben. on the rise of the extreme religious party that is, in a sense, to the right of the muslim brotherhood, and it is now in a strange alliance with the military. have they become more powerful? and what do the moderates and liberals think of that? >> reporter: well, they're very unhappy because it was the noor party that basically derailed
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the attempt to get mohammed elbaradei elected. and it was at the last moment when they were called for a press conference that el baradei was appointed, that he was actually not appointed. excuse me. a lot of dust in cairo these days. so, they really in a sense are the kingmakers. they are the islamists within the current regime. but without their approval, it appears that mohammed baradei cannot be appointed prime minister, and they are the ones who can decide. >> thank you, ben. yes, mohammed baradei was going to be on on program, contracted laryngitis. coming up, more from my panel in new york plus views from the main players in cairo. " "that starts with one of the world's most advanced
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has the united states responded properly in egypt? is there a correct response? my three guests will help answer that question. zbigniew brzezinski was president carter's national security adviser. richard haass was a top official in the national security council and at the state department under president bush. he is now president of the council on foreign relations. and bret stephens is the foreign affairs columnist for "wall street journal". zbigniew, we know that ann patterson, the u.s. ambassador, cautioned the military not to intervene in politics in the way that they did. are you surprised that they went ahead anyway, essentially defying the united states? >> i listened carefully to what you said, first of all, a few moments ago, and i agree with your analysis, but quite frankly, i don't agree with your prescriptions, and that's relevant to the question you have just posed. we have to face the fact that egypt is in the midst of a
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profound revolution that brings together three different historical experiences in egypt that are now coming to a head, a nationalist revolution against foreign domination, a social revolution against domestic inadequacies, a religious fanaticism that's on the rise, and all of this combined could put egypt into a state of total upheaval. we have to be extremely careful. and the last thing we need to do is to start giving ultimatum, in effect, with dates on them to whoever governs egypt, whether it is the military or whether it is, in fact, the muslim brotherhood. we are not the decisive factor anymore in internal egyptian politics, and that's related more generally to the decline of american position in the middle east, which may be tipping towards regionwide violence. so, we have to act with caution and discretion, and the last
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thing we ought to be doing is giving ultamata with dates on them, uth to the military if they remain in government or to the muslim brotherhood if it regains it somehow. >> richard haass, you wrote a piece in "financial times" in which you said this is not a coup. as the most outspoken defender of this position, i want to ask you first why you define, why you say that you can actually come up with a definition that this isn't a coup. and if you were in government right now, how would you get around the legislation, which, whatever your definition is, the legislation says if a government that is dramatically elected is ousted by the military or by military decree, aid should stop? how do you get around that? >> traditionally, fareed, coups have had two features. one is that the military essentially takes the initiative. and in this case, the military was not taking the initiative. if anything, they were responding to the fact that one out of every five or six egyptians was in the streets and was protesting against this
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government. secondly, the military was not grabbing power for itself. it's one thing if the military is setting itself up as the new authority. in this case, though, there seems to be -- and i put the emphasis on seems to be -- a political transition. now, it may turn out to be this is just a sham and the military was just using this as a pretext to gain political power for itself, in which case, in hindsight, we'll say, gee, it actually was something of a coup, and then we'll have to decide what it is we want to do. but right now, i think we've got to cut them some slack and we've got to work with them. so, that gets very quickly to this prescriptive thing, which you mentioned in your open remarks and zbig mentioned in his. and i would say, look, whether the parallel is turkey or whether egypt is somewhat unue, but the military now is in a position to have influence. we want to work with them. we want to see them influenced in the direction of a political process. the last thing we want to see, by the way, is the muslim brotherhood give up on conventional politics. we don't want them to feel that
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violence in the streets are their own options. so, we essentially want to encourage the military to open things up, to set some kind of a calendar. if anything, i would actually, rather than think about cutting aid, i would be willing to expand aid. i would be willing to say, look, we will work with you on some type of a roadmap, to use their word, a political openness of redrafting a constitution of political participation, of elections, of economic and political reforms, to tide you through, and we're willing to be your partner conditionally so long as you take certain steps. >> bret, in your column, you seem to suggest that if you're going to do a coup do it properly. if you're going to take vienna, as napoleon said, take vienna. does that mean you want the military to continue the crackdowns on the opposition, to continue jailing people, to continue shutting down media? >> well, not necessarily. i want this process to succeed. you know, let's face it, this is a coup, to adapt potter stewart's line about pornography. you know it when you see it. this is precisely what took
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place. we can't be ambivalent about what happened. ambivalence might be a posture for columnists to take, but it's not a good posture for policymakers to take. they are in the driver's seat. how do we help him succeed at what he's doing? a few things. first of all, we shouldn't put red lines, as mr. brzezinski just said, that we can'tor at a future date. secondly, you have a country in the midst of a profound economic crisis. it needs two things above all, wheat or flour and oil. and we should work with the saudis to provide both of those things. we shouldn't set a political timetable. what we should be doing is quietly cautioning the military behind the scenes, not with public pronouncements, but about taking an approach that is likely going to quiet the brotherhood, or at least make it postpone its political demands, because the brotherhood can take one of two lessons to what's happened. one is you enter democracy, you
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think you're playing by the rules, and guess what? they cut your legs out from under you anyway. or they can take the lesson that when you hold power, you need to be accountable, you need to be responsible and you need to take things slowly, taking into account the views of all the stakeholders. that's what morsi and the brotherhood failed to do, and that's the lesson we should be driving home with the brotherhood as well, that they can participate in a political process so long as they don't mean to use it as a vehicle for assuming dictatorial powers, which they seem to be doing and what precipitated the upheaval in the first place. >> egypt is now on its own track and working on a profound change. you wrote an essay a couple years ago that i was struck by about political upheavals taking place in the world which were a combination of economic assertiveness, political assertiveness, mobilization, suggesting that these countries are going to do what they're going to do and that the u.s. has limited influence. is that the new reality, you think?
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>> i think so very much. in fact, i think what we're dealing with is not even necessarily a coup, because a coup would be against a functioning government. this is a reaction to the dissolution of effective government in egypt. but we should be careful not to cast our lot with one side or another too early. we don't know what the outcome here will be. there might be massive violence, and perhaps the religious organizations parties will come to power. we'll have to deal with them, too. in other words, we ought to be cautious, restrained, willing to help whoever manages the situation in whatever fashion, and let the dust settle. and remember that egypt is one of the two most important countries to us in the middle east. that is to say, in addition to israel, of course, as a separate entity, turkey and egypt. and we mustn't get involved in becoming a protagonist in what
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may be a prolonged and terribly destructive conflict within egypt. web help settle it down, we can cautiously work with whoever's in power, but let us not prejudge the outcome, because we are in the first phase of what could be a prolonged and very bitter and very bloody struggle. >> thank you, folks. stay with us. the roundtable will be back. up next, we go back to cairo and we speak to the two main factions competing for power. what do they want? what happens next? stay with us. out there owning it. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?"
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how to understand the tensions between president morsi's party and the opposition? let us hear from both sides. first, let's go to ambassador navil famni, a leader of the opposition party, former ambassador to the united states, now dean of the school of global affairs at the american university in cairo. then, i'll talk to amir deraug, founding member of president morsi's freedom and justice party, and the man who oversaw the drafting of egypt's new constitution under morsi. first, nabil. first, what do you say to members of the muslim brotherhood? they would argue, i think, that they took part in democratic politics, as they were asked to, they organized for the elections, they won a
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parliamentary majority in parliament and then a court dissolved the entire lower house. they won a presidential election and the president has now been ousted. they drafted a constitution which was approved by 64% of the egyptian people via referendum. and that constitution has now been suspended. three times they went participating in the democratic process to create democracy, and all three times they have been, all three things have now been dislodged by the military. isn't that a fair argument from their point of view? >> i think the issue here is not whether you had a democratic election but whether you had democratic governance, governance that is inclusive to all egyptians, be they islamist or nonislamist that is accountable, that is transparent. and that's why you have 20 million people signing a
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petition asking for new elections. that was the request that they made. we have no process of recall or impeachment, so they were asking for new elections. in the absence of that, that is why you had the demonstrations. what we need to find now is a political identity for egypt that includes islamists and nonislamists. and hopefully, the new government can be established in a few days will reach out to all egyptians. they are all egyptians, and they should be invited back into the process, a process of governance that is pluralistic, not only by way of our constitution, but by way of -- >> i think we lost nab ink lil . i'm going to go to the opposition leader, the former president of president morsi's party. amir, what do you say to that argument that nabil makes, that your party did not govern in a democratic fashion, egypt does
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not have a recall process, and 20 million people signed a petition asking for new elections? so, in effect, there was a kind of national vote of no confidence against the muslim brotherhood. >> well, fareed, i'm afraid that these aren't the arguments that are being to justify a coup. actually, no matter what the performance of the government was, whether we agreed or not about the performance of the government, the simple question is, does this justify a military coup? does this justify the chief leader of the army to come out and install the opposition to be the ruling party? that is the main question. number two, when we talk about undemocratic governance, what are the evidence on that? we had a government. as a matter of fact, only 25% of the government belonged to the freedom and justice party,
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although the freedom and justice party got the majority in the elections, the parliamentary elections. the parliament was there, the upper chamber of the parliament was there, it was functioning, and there was planning for elections coming in two or three months. so, how can you define this as undemocratic? as a matter of fact, as president morsi announced and as our prime minister announced many times, many times, invitation was provided to leaders and members of all parties of egypt to participate in the government, but they declined. and nevertheless, even if the whole government was formed of freedom and justice party, if you even assume that, which was not the case, still, that was the majority government. but however, what happened is that people started to oppose the government, which is all
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right. i mean, in any democratic society, you have opponents of the government, you have opposition. they were given absolute freedom to express their opinion, even in demonstrations. nobody stood in front of the demonstrations. and they were collecting signatures on a petition. i'm not sure whether they reached 20 million or 2 million or 1 million. nobody counted after that, and there is no way to verify that number anyway. but of course, i acknowledge that there were a lot of demonstrations against the ruling party. that was a reality. but again, here comes my question, does this justify a military coup? when it comes to demonstrations, what we saw friday, last friday, and what we are seeing, what we are going to see today and starting to happen, actually, is that we have massive demonstrations inquiring and requesting the reinstallment of president morsi, the legitimate president of the republic.
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now, is the military going to convene again and say based on the will of these millions of people, i'm going to reinstall the president again? this is not the way to run democracies. democracies are always run in a democratic way. the democratic way is to leave the government to perform, criticize as much as you want, gather opposition, go into elections and try to win elections. if the opposition had these 20 million supporters, they would have easily won the election, the coming parliamentary elections. they could have formed a government, they could have even ousted the president if they wanted. they could have changed the constitution. they could have done a lot of things. why do they have to do that via a military coup? this is the main question. >> nabil fanmy, i'm going to ask you one quick question before we have to leave. the effort to appoint mohammed el baradei prime minister faltered because you found that the ultra conservative el noor party would not allow it.
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as a liberal and a moderate, i am struck by your position where you have the two most illiberal forces in egyptian life, which is the military, which has been running the country for six decades as a dictatorship, and these ultra conservative islamic fundamentalists have allied to squeeze out moderates like mohamed elbaradei. that doesn't sound like a good future for egypt. >> as i said, we are trying to find and define our political identity in the 21st century. that's the task. i just wanted to go back for a second, fareed, on this issue of democratic governance. i think it is incorrect to argue that we had democratic governance or that the constitution was passed dramatically. the committee on the constitution only included the islamists. all of the nonislamists had withdrawn from the constitution. it ultimately only got 22% of the voting public. 66%, that was of the number of people who voted, very low
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participation. anyway, the public spoke to the president, asked him to call for elections. in the absence of recall or appeal. it was a peaceful appeal to the president. had he responded, we would not have faced the situation we are facing today. the military, which is never the best recourse, was forced to intervene. they had to either intervene or allow for chaos. but again, we are reaching out to all islamists, all egyptians. we want to move egypt forward together. it will neither be an islamist state nor a nonislamist state. we are egyptians. let's find a way to move together. >> nabid fahmy, thanks. and next, we'll hear more on egypt from tarek masoud and mona eltahawy. stay with us. hi, buddy! that's why the free wifi and hot breakfast are something to smile about. book a great getaway now and feel the hamptonality
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all week we saw the split-screens, the anti-morsi protests in cairo's tahrir square on the one side, on the other side, the pro-morsi rallies in nearby nasa city. it was quite a representation of what is believed to be a deep split in egyptian society. how to understand this dichotomy in egypt and what does it mean for the future of the country? i want to bring in mona eltahawy here in new york and tarek masoud in boston. mona is a cairo-based writer and commentator, and tarek is a professor at harvard's kennedy school of government. mona, you're a fiery, fierce egyptian liberal. how do you feel about the fact
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that you have had your wishes delivered to you, in a sense, but on the backs of a military takeover? >> i see it more as our wishes were delivered through the millions of people who hit the streets. we had a coup in egypt in 1952 led by six army officers and then the people joined them. this was the reverse. we had millions of people on the street, effectively impeaching a president who was getting in the way of our democratic process, not helping it. but i want to make very clear that just as those millions made it very clear to morsi that we can impeach you, we must make it very clear to the general that we also do not want you to rule, because our revolution was never about keeping military rule. we want to end 60 years of military rule. so i am not happy to see the military involved in politics in egypt in any way, but morsi left us no institution quote/unquote, other than the street to impeach him. i want a very quick transition to civilian, clearly, civilian rule, without any interference from c.c., without cc appointing or installing anyone. and as an egyptian liberal, i also want to involve everyone.
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i don't want to marginalize anyone in the way that morsi marginalized many of us in egypt. >> tarek masoud, you are a great student of the muslim brotherhood. you have spent months and months following these guys. you knew president morsi very well. what do you think they're going to do? at the end of the day, again, i come back to the fact, we're just assuming that this is going to work out, and i just wonder. the muslim brotherhood is the most powerful organized force in egypt. what do you think they're going to do next? >> i think that it's unrealistic to assume that the muslim brotherhood is going to lie down. obviously, we've seen these massive protests. and when i talk to members of the muslim brotherhood now, they tell me that this will not stand, that they will absolutely reverse this military coup and put mohamed morsi back in the presidency. now, i don't see how that's realistic at all, given, as mona said, the millions of people who clearly demonstrated that they did not want mohamed morsi.
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but this is what t muslim brotherhood thinks. and i think the main challenge now for the egyptian political establishment is trying to figure out a way to do what mona asked for and incorporate the muslim brotherhood in the new transition, and yet, i think that will take such a degree of political creativity and genius to bring this movement that has now just suffered one of the greatest blows in its history to get them to forget this and to come back to the negotiating table is going to be a -- it's going to require some kind of magic that i'm not sure anybody in egypt can pull off. >> tarek, you're a student of political islam. so, if you were, you know, a political islamist or a fundamentalist, here's what you look at. they won the elections in algeria in 1992, the government annulled the elections. hamas won in gaza, they were boycotted and banned. the party wins in turkey and the turkey military institutes a
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coup. as i say, three times the muslim brotherhood won on the polls here. is there a danger that this movement says, you know what, this democracy idea just doesn't work for us, we're going to do something else? >> well, look, there's certainly a danger that some elements in the muslim brotherhood and in the islamic movement more broadly will absolutely take that lesson from this process. but when i go back and i studied the muslim brotherhood's early history, one thing that is really remarkable about this movement is that participation in electoral poll tikdz is encoded in its dna, going all the way back to the founder. and this is not the first time that the muslim brotherhood has experienced the will of the people, in its view, being thwarted by the military or by the government. they suffered rigged elections under mubarak. so, if i were to bet, i would say that there is still some possibility, considerable possibility, that this movement could come back to the
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democratic process. the question is, you know, how long is it going to take for that to happen and what can egypt's current leaders do? and i just don't know. it seems that they're trying to move rapidly to forget about the morsi era and appoint new government and move forward, and it sounds like nobody is really comprehending just the magnitude of what has been pulled off here, and particularly from the standpoint of the muslim brotherhood, how traumatic this is and how they have a desire for vengeance. >> if there are new elections and if there are new presidential elections, should mohamed morsi be allowed to run for president? >> that's a difficult question. i think anybody should be allowed to run for president as long as we have a constitution that allows us to remove whoever becomes our president in a way that the constitution that morsi rushed into effect basically barred us from doing. and i think it's also very important to get beyond this sensationalization of a ballot box.
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democracy isn't just about a piece of paper in a box. democracy is about allowing institutions to flourish alongside the ballot box so that we have a mechanism by which we say we, the people who brought you in, can now bring you out. and as a woman, i want to make it very clear as well that it bothers me deeply that we're still stuck between the islamists and the military, because the people who suffer the most are women. if you look at what's been happening, as happy as i am that we got rid of mohamed morsi, there were more than 100 secular sorts in tahrir square over the past few days, which is horrendous. as an egyptian woman, i say we have to address this. we need a national campaign against sexual violence. and having these two polar opposites, the islamists and the military, neither of which support gender equality or women's rights, for me anz as an egyptian woman, this must be a priority of whoever takes over government of egypt. >> mona eltahawy, tarek masoud, thank you very much. after the break, an update on the san francisco plane crash. then, edward snowden with our great panel, zbigniew brzezinski, richard haass and
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you are looking at live pictures of cnn affiliate kgo of the crash of asiana airlines flight 214 and our continuing coverage. "fareed zakaria gps" will continue in a moment. i want to update you on a few
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things happening here at san francisco airport. officials are now meeting the expected press conference now from officials, states, local and federal. once they come out of that big meeting they are having this morning, a couple of other things to update you on. the flight data recorders, as we know, have been recovered from that airplane. they were taken overnight to washington, d.c. officials say they are in good shape and they are getting a download from them at this hour. a big thing that investigators will be focused on is the flight path. why did that plane come down too low and hit that embankment before skidding to a stop on the airport tarmac here? engine power will be an issue. the ceo of asiana airlines saying at this point he knows of no problem with those engines. passengers on that plane say that the engines powered up just before that plane made contact with that embankment wall. the asiana ceo also saying that there was no announcement to
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passengers prior to that plane crashing. we also know that the instrument landing system, the ils system here at san francisco airport, was not functional at the airport at that time, that runway. it is not clear that that contributed to this problem. the boeing 777 does have a backup. we will be looking at all that coming up. let's go now to the other big international story of the day, the hunt for edward snowden. at this hour, he is believed to be still hold up in the transit area of moscow's airport, but in recent days, no fewer than three latin american countries -- venezuela, bolivia and nicaragua -- have indicated a willingness to give the nsa leaker a new home. can the u.s. stop him? let's bring back my panel of experts, zbigniew brzezinski, richard haass and bret stephens. zbig, i want to start with you.
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what do you make of this story, because you had to deal with these kinds of things during the cold war when you were national security adviser, but this guy is not working for another government. it's a kind of vague, nilistic an yarkism. i presume the message here is he doesn't want the governments to do any espionage? what do you make of it? >> well, think of daniel ellsberg. he was against our policy in vietnam. he revealed classified documents. he did it in the united states and was prepared to face the music. he may have been misguided, but he certainly was patriotic. what did this guy do? he goes to china and then he goes to russia. both countries that would like to replace us on top of the global totem pole. and russia certainly under putin is far from being friendly to the united states. so, what are his motives? who's he trying to appeal to? who are his allies that he made his choice? in other words, i am very
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skeptical about his motivations. maybe he's psychologically mixed up, but he's certainly no friends of the united states objectively and maybe even subjectively. >> richard haass, we do seem to be having some, you know, influence in getting these governments to not be very responsive, other than, you know, these three latin american governments. putin gave this remarkable statement where he said this guy needs to get out because it's upsetting the work of our friends, the americans. >> machiavelli once said you could tell the kind of person he is by the people around him. well, the countries looking to take him are outliers. to the extent there is an international community, they're not part of it. this has turned into a farce. but we should not forget, wrapped around this farce is a tragedy. this guy is not a whistleblower. he is a felon. he committed treason. and what he did will make americans and others around the world less safe. so, it might be fun at times to talk about him the way the media
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is, but this is serious stuff. people will be vulnerable because of the way that he has tipped off groups and individuals who want to do us severe harm. so, wherever he ends up, in an airport lounge or in venezuela or wherever, his legacy will be truly destructive. >> but the "journal," always a zealous protector of freedom, writes, and is there a part of you that looks at this mega data collection and worries what it means? >> no, government spy, and we're realists also, and all governments have intelligence agencies and they have legal controls which operate and which operated at the nsa under multiple administrations. so, i agree with both of these comments. you know, martin luther king wrote "letter from a birmingham jail." what is snowden going to write, letter from a moscow transit lounge? letter from a venezuelan four-star hotel? this is not a guy who is willing to pay the price for the civil disobedience he thought he was
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committing. he's also not a whistleblower. he went into the nsa with the intention to reveal secrets. it's not like he got there and said, oh, geez, terrible things are happening, i need to reveal this to the public at large. one comment, though, which is, we're holding snowden -- we want to hold snowden morally accountable. somebody needs to ask, how is it that after the bradley manning incident, you can still have a 29-year-old contractor, not even working for the government itself, essentially walking into the sanctum sank torm of our american intelligence establishment and putting so much information on a zip drive? or i assume this is a large quantity of information. someone within the intelligence establishment has to say why do we let this happen again and again. >> it's funny, because people used to always say we need to share more intelligence, government is too siloed, you know. and now when you share intelligence, it turns out the bradley mannings and the edward snowdens of the world end up with too much intelligence. there's probably some happy medium. we've got to go. thank you, everyone.
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up next, the latest edition of "superman" is japanese. he's a well-known political figure. i will explain when we come back. we're at walmart with mikel-claire. so you check all the weekly ads to get the best sale prices? i do! do you think you can get the same great prices all in one place with walmart's low price guarantee? let's see. ok. every bbq's got to have... chips! walmart's always working to lower costs so you get more savings. hot dogs! you're going to knock it out of the park. you found a lower advertised price but walmart will match that right at the register. that's cool! you don't even need the ad with you! ready? wow! that's the walmart low price guarantee backed by ad match. save time and money this july 4th, bring in ads from your local stores and see for yourself. plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. the people who came before us.
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thursday was independence day here in the united states, but let's not forget that monday was canada day for our neighbors
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to the north. that day celebrates not independence but a union of sorts, when the british parliament joined together news brunswick, nova scotia and the province of canada into the dominion of canada in 1867. it brings me to my question of the week from "the gps challenge" -- when did canada gain independence from britain? canadian viewers, you have it easy this week. "a," 1882. "b," 1898. "c," 1982. or "d," 1992. stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. go to for more of "the gps challenge." you can also follow us on twitter and facebook. also remember, you can go to if you ever miss a show or a special. this week's book of the week is related to july 4th. around this time of the year, i often pick up something about american history, and i would recommend to you gordon woods' "the idea of america." wood is quite simply the
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greatest living historian of the american revolution, and this is a collection of his essays about the founding, about american exceptionalism, about religion and much more. it is a treasure chest and you will dip into it repeatedly. now for "the last look." japan's politicians aren't known for their pizzazz, their charisma, and prime minister shinzo abe is no exception. you don't see him playing saxophone on late-night tv. you don't see him giving out high fives. you don't see him relaxing, enjoying a ball game. so, his party wondered, how do you get young people excited about abe and his party? hmm. in this video game and gadget-obsessed nation, what in the world could they do? the answer? ♪ abe-piong, which translates to abe hops in english, like hops like a bunny.
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it's an app for your android or smartphone and your mission is to make abe hop higher and higher until he reaches the pinnacle, prime minister. and when he becomes pm, he gets a superhero's cape. i think he should only get the cape when he truly revives japan's economy. i can't resist showing you another video, this one real, not animated, of another asian politician trying to look cool. here's ban ki-moon, the u.n. secretary-general, dancing "gangnam style" with who else? ♪ the correct answer to our "gps challenge" question was "c." canada didn't become fully independent from the british crown until 31 years ago but remains to this day a member of the commonwealth. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. part of my program this week. i will see you next week. -- captions by vitac -- i'm candy crowley in
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washington. you are looking at live pictures provided to us by kgo. that is the san francisco airport. and i believe you are looking at members of the national transportation safety board. we call it the ntsb, walking across that runway where that plane crashed so spectacularly. two people dead in that. all in all, 307 people on board. we are awaiting a news conference by the national transportation safety board. so far as we know, they have begun some preliminary looks at the data recorder, for instance, those black boxes, as we call them, have already been shipped to washington. they are already downloading some of the data so they can know a little bit at this point. but what we also know is that the ntsb doesn't dribble out information it gets bit by bit. it tends to collect it and look at all