tv CNN Newsroom CNN July 15, 2013 8:00am-9:01am PDT
hello, everyone. i'm michaela pereira in for ashleigh banfield. there is a loud cry for justice coming from thousands of protesters in cities across the u.s. as they come to grips with the not guilty verdict in george zimmerman's murder trial. >> this is what democracy looks like! >> you can see here demonstrators in new york, from across the racial spectrum. they marched from union square up 6th avenue to times square. and protests like that, many peaceful, others not, are happening all across the nation. alina machado is live in sanford, florida this morning to
give us an idea of what's happening there. alina. >> reporter: well, michaela, protests here in sanford, florida have been very small and peaceful, unlike what we've seen in some other parts of the country. overnight in new york city, in times square, there were thousands of people marching. in harlem we heard of a scuffle between police and protesters, a scuffle that resulted in some arrests. and in los angeles we heard of a march that turned violent after protesters started throwing batteries and rocks and chunks of cement in one area and then they blocked traffic on a freeway. we're told the lapd responded by throwing bean bags at demonstrators. and michaela, this is exactly what leaders here in sanford, florida and around the country have said they did not want to see. >> sanford has been put in the spotlight for the past 17, 18 months. and we are in the process of now -- of opening up a new chapter, going in a new direction, learning from the things that have taken player, and seeing how we can improve on
being better to each other, how we can better communicate with one another, how we can make the community better. >> reporter: and that was sanford police chief cecil smith reacting to yesterday's protests here in sanford, florida. again, everybody calling for peace, everybody calling for calm after this verdict came down. michaela? >> alina, i'm curious, we see chief smith there talking about the need for the city and the community and the nation as a whole to go new directions. i'm curious what community leaders there are doing specifically, what tangible programs or messages they are putting out to keep the peace there in sanford. >> well, they were working on this well before the verdict. they had several pastors from churches actually sitting in in the courtroom actually listening to the trial so they can go back and educate their congregations. now that the verdict has come down, they've renewed their calls for peace and calm. and we also know that they're going to be -- there are several churches in town here in seminole county, florida that will be opening their doors
every monday afternoon starting today so people can come and pray for peace and unity. the first session will be taking place at this church we're at this afternoon. michaela? >> yeah, a lot of reaction on social media as well and a lot of people calling for peace -- peace for trayvon, et cetera. alina machado, thanks so much. she's in sanford, florida. we appreciate that. george zimmerman is a free man. he's free to leave florida. he's free to pursue his dreams. during the trial we heard the testimony that he wanted to be a law enforcement officer. one of his college professors also testified, however, he also wanted to become an attorney and eventually a prosecutor. in fact, reuters is reporting one of his friends, lee ann benjamin, who also testified, you see her there on screen in this trial, says she had dinner with him recently and he said he wants to go to law school and help other people accused of crimes just like him. but before he fights other people's legal battles, he could have some more of his own. the naacp calling on the justice department to file federal civil rights charges against him.
>> they will make a choice about whether or not they will pursue criminal civil rights charges. we are calling on them to do just that because when you look at his comments and when you look at comments made by young black men who lived in that neighborhood about how they felt especially targeted by him there is reason to be concerned that race was a factor. >> former prosecutor beth karas joins me live from new york. beth, thanks so much for joining me today. let's start by talking about possible federal charges against zimmerman. i want you to listen to some sound from attorney general eric holder on hate crimes. then i'm going to get your reaction on the other side. >> for a federal hate crime we have to prove the highest standard in the law. something that was reckless, that was negligent does not meet that standard. we have to show that there was specific intent to do the crime with the requisite state of mind. >> requisite state of mind. so what are the chances, beth, in your estimation that
zimmerman will be charged on the federal level? >> you know, i think the chances are remote. the investigation does continue. the justice department, i'm sure, is very well aware of all of the evidence that was -- that unfolded in the courtroom, and they're doing their own investigation to see what they can dig up in george zimmerman's background to establish that he is a racist. i don't -- i don't think the evidence is strong. this is very different from the types of cases which motivated that statute, the federal hate crimes statute. there are two sides to this story at least. the neighbors see things that are consistent with george zimmerman's version. trayvon martin is not here to explain his side. and just looking at the facts, although there is a dead unarmed teen, it's just blatantly obvious that he was motivated by racial animus. and as eric holder was saying, he's alluding to -- or actually not alluding. he was very directly saying this
is a hard and high standard. >> yeah. he made a point of making that point very clear. i want to speak to this idea of zimmerman having a future as an attorney. it's interesting. what kind of future does the man hold? obviously, the time going forward is going to be a very challenging time for he and his family. he had an interest in law enforcement, speaking to a family friend or a friend of his that he was interested in going to law school. what do you see? you as an attorney, what do you think when you hear that? >> you know, i suppose it's possible. but he needs the heat to die down. and he needs to lay low for a while. and we saw a lot of anger and hatred against causey anthony afew years ago. totally different case but it too was an acquittal and it didn't sit well with people and people thought the system failed, the jury failed. and she still isn't a very public person two years later. george zimmerman has supporters, and he has detractors. so i think that there's probably a little area where he can go
and be among some supporters and start a new life. but it's certainly not going to be in central florida. >> that's beth karas, cnn legal analyst and former prosecutor. we appreciate your time. thank you so much. more fireworks are likely this week at the trial of alleged boston mobster james "whitey"bulger. key prosecution witness steven the rifleman flemy is expected to implicate bulger in the murders of ten people ten years ago. flemy has already pleaded guilty to those killings. bulger is charged in the deaths of 19 people. he also is facing charges of extorti extortion, racketeering, and money laundering. he has pleaded not guilty. an autopsy is being performed today on actor cory monteith. it's unknown what killed the 31-year-old actor best known for his starring role on the tv show "glee." his body was found in a hotel room in vancouver, canada on saturday. police are only saying at this point that they have ruled out foul play.
monteith checked out of a rehab center in march. he's been very public about his ongoing struggle with addiction. former president george h.w. bush is coming back to the white house today for a very special event. want to show you a live picture here. there it is. the white house, beautiful day in washington. along with the former first lady barbara bush, the pair will be joining the current first family, paying tribute to volunteers. this will happen this afternoon. they'll honor an iowa couple as the 5,000th recipients of the daily points of light award for community service. congratulations to them. edward snoweden, the man behind one of the most notorious intelligence leaks in american history, now telling journalists he has even more documents to share. and the reporter who broke the story says it could be america's "worst nightmare." we'll have that story next. peace of mind is important when you're running a business. century link provides reliable it services like multi-layered security solution to keep your information safe & secure.
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see the difference all of us can make... together. more damaging information that could be a nightmare for the u.s. government. that's the latest word from nsa leaker edward snowden. glenn greenwald, who first broke the story in the "guardian" newspaper, says the information contains specific details on the operations and the structure of the nsa. this new development comes as snowden remains holed up in that
moscow airport. he's been there quite some time. phil black joins us live from moscow now. we say hello to you, phil. and i'm curious. snowden has said he's not wanting to hurt america with this new information. but if not what's his endgame here? >> well, it's an interesting question indeed. and glenn greenwald, the journalist you mentioned, doesn't go into that sort of detail necessarily except to say that when he fled the country, when he fled the united states, he took more information than he actually required. essentially to maintain credibility, if you like, in any discussions he needed to have with journalists such as himself. so as a result greenwald says snowden has taken thousands of documents, the sort of information that will allow him to do so much damage to the united states, more damage within one brief moment than greenwald says has ever been possible before by just one person. thousands of documents. he describes it as effectively an instruction manual for the way the nsa is built, how it does what it does, and the sort of information that will allow
people to evade and possibly replicate that sort of surveillance. but he insists that snowden does not want that information to be made public, michaela. >> this as we still await word on where he's actually going to get asylum if he gets it at all. phil black, thank you very much. let's move to cairo now. pro and anti-government protesters continue to pack the streets. this as the number two diplomat in the u.s. state department meets with interim government o'officials. deputy secretary of state william burns is the first high-level u.s. official to visit cairo since the military ouster of president mohamed morsi. nick patton walsh joins us live from cairo. we say hi to you. tell us what is the scene in the streets there today in cairo? >> reporter: well, behind me the anti-morsi protests for so many days fill tahrir square. they're really ebbing at this point. their supporters say pretty much they've won, they're able to go home. but across town what's key is the pro-morsi crowds seem to be
digging in in their thousands, even in the basking heat of the ramadan religious fast here. we were there a few days ago. there were even key leaders within that crowd who were sought by prosecutors. but they seem to be saying they'll stay until the end and they see no real sign of reconciliation between the interim government and the former government, led by many muslim brotherhood key figures. many cabinet appointments over the weekend to try and push through this interim government road map toward new presidential elections. but the outstanding question really, michaela, is how do they get the political reconciliation together to bring the brotherhood off the streets and back into the political process, michaela? >> i'm curious, is there any word on who deputy secretary of state burns is planning on meeting with while he's there and what his goal is? >> as far as he's aware, he's already had two key meetings, has the interim prime minister and general al sissi, the minister of defense, the head of the army here. al sisi the real kind of figurehead between the
military's intervention here. that's surely about shoring up the vital washington-cairo relationship. there's been a thorn in that, though. washington on friday did explicitly call for the release of mohamed morsi, the former president and key muslim brotherhood figure. that simply hasn't happened. and until that's really addressed washington and cairo are going to have a bit of a rocky time talking. michaela? >> to be sure. big thank you to nick peyton walsh there in cairo. we pressure that. still ahead, prosecutors under fire after the george zimmerman verdict. today opening up about their case. >> we're left with a defendant's story, and what we attempted to do as best we could is to prove that his story was false. >> we'll have more from the prosecutors, including their views on the case and the witnesses coming up next.
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back now to the fallout from the verdict in the george zimmerman trial. as with any high-profile acquittal like this one, the prosecution has come under fire for the loss. the loudest criticism has come under the decision to file murder charges. earlier this morning prosecutors sat down with vinnie politan
from our sister station hln. i want you to take a listen. >> you know, we're stuck with the evidence we have. we would -- >> are you being nice right now? >> well, no. this is the truth. you know, we don't get to pick our witnesses. we've got to deal with what we've got and we've got to do the best we can. >> there was a wealth of hard, cold physical evidence, dna and everything else, that showed that george zimmerman lied in his statements to the police. >> there was no sort of narrative that this jury could follow, that america could follow. in the trial is you can't say t jury don't speculate and then ask them to speculate. and so we're left with the defendant's story, and what we attempted to do as best we could is to prove that his story was false. therefore, why would he be lying about something? something minor like trying to get an address. i mean, i thought that was blatantly obviously a lie. and when i was talking to the jury, when i was arguing to the jury, i saw them nodding their heads. >> so what was the deciding factor -- >> the problem -- >> -- and was it a group decision?
>> yes. >> and the problem you have is there was enough evidence, even though i would argue it was insignificant or very little, that there was self-defense. you had john good. you had other people. so they were going to be able to get an instruction as to self-defense. and once we knew that was coming on, we felt we needed to put his statement on and just disprove it. >> and we had the injuries. and the injuries indicate there was some sort of a struggle. our position all along, we never said that trayvon didn't do something to george zimmerman. what we said is you can't take a concealed weapon and encourage or incite a fistfight, which is what he did by stalking a teenager who didn't know who he was, and then whip your gun out and shoot. and that's what he said. "i just got my gun out and shot him." never explaining the details of how he was able to pull his gun if he was being beaten as brutally as he claimed. and so we had to put all of that in. and then we clearly refuted it with the physical evidence. no dna on trayvon martin's hands, who supposedly were
covering his bloody nose. you know, so many other things. and those lives were put in frot of the jury one after the other after the other. >> you can hear more of vinnie's interview tonight at 10:00 p.m. that will be on our sister station, the sister network, rather, hln. probably the loudest critic of the prosecution was don west, one of george zimmerman's defense attorneys. among other things, he accused them of playing dirty tricks during the trial. joining me now is defense attorney danny sevalos and faith jenkins, former prosecutor. thank you both for coming on and talk about it. i know you've been talking about it a lot this week and the last few months for sure. so much emotion, so much riding on this. let's assess the prosecution here for a moment, the job they did. danny, do you think they missed a slam dunk here? >> a slam dunk? i'm not much for sports analogies. it would be more like missing a half-court shot. this was a hard, hard case for the prosecution to win. and you heard them say it
themselves. they do not get to choose their witnesses. and to me they're essentially conceding that some of their witnesses weren't so great. and again, they don't get to choose them. the other thing that's astounding is that they concede that there was some kind of altercation. just now in that sound we just heard. which is astounding considering the narrative that's going on, that a child can't go to 7-eleven and buy skittles. the prosecution is conceding more than that happened. >> fade, in an interview with chris cuomo on "new gaye day," which you'll see a little later coming up, in fact defense attorney mark o'mara said the prosecution should never have brought the case in the first place. he said the state should have waited for a grand jury to decide instead of appointing a special prosecutor. is he right? >> michaela, as a prosecutor your job is always to do justice. and they thought clearly here that there was a murder and it wasn't justified. so they decided to move forward with the case without the grand jury. the problem with the case is trayvon martin was dead. so his side of the story, his
testimony, his version died with him. so of course they had an uphill battle. there was no real true eyewitness. but based on what we heard in the interview, the inconsistencies they believed in george zimmerman's story, they believed he lied, they went ahead and went forward with the case. we get cases all the time. they are hard to prove. they are tough. it's going to be an uphill battle. but when you think a murder has been committed, when you think justice needs to be served, you go forward anyway and risk the chance of an acquittal, risk the chance of losing. but you take the chance anyway. >> we're polling all of our legal panels today. i want to ask you both, danny and faith. do you think the verdict was accurate? danny? >> yes. it was not guilty from the beginning. it was not guilty throughout the trial. and i am not surprised by the verdict. although i admit the last few minutes before the verdict comes out everyone always has their doubts. me included. >> you too. you say you always do that. how about you, faith? do you think they got it right? >> no. i don't think justice was served
in this case. i really don't. when you look at the facts that never change, that this 17-year-old was walking home. and so what if there was a struggle? so what if he fought back if someone was following him with a gun? george zimmerman made the ultimate decision to take his life. and i just don't think that it was an accurate verdict here and there was not justice. >> well, and i'll add to this, two families forever changed. danny cevallos and faith jenkins, i want to thank you both for joining us today. we appreciate it. the american soldier who first turned over secrets to wikileaks is being court-martialed. bradley manning charged with agd t aiding the an mi. up next find out just how much time he could spend in prison. if you're serious about taking your trading to a higher level, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550
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afghanistan. cnn pentagon correspondent barbara starr is here with the very latest. barbara, both prosecution and defense have presented their cases. what is next in the court-martial of bradley manning? >> reporter: well, good morning, michaela. bradley manning back in court later today. and the judge will start hearing the argument from the prosecution as the defense over this whole issue of dropping some of the most contentious charges. the one of course the defense wants to see either dropped or get a summary judgment on, in other words, the judge simply says you're not guilty, is the charge of aiding the enemy because that could put bradley manning in a military jail for the rest of his life. he's already pled guilty to some lesser charges that could get him the maximum of 20 years in prison. so this will be very key. both sides have rested their initial cases. the judge, there is no jury in this matter, will hear the motions today for dismissal of some charges, summary judgment,
a finding of not guilty on other charges, and then we could see the prosecution come back one more time for rebuttal. the big issue on the table, the defense says at least, is did the prosecution prove that national security was truly harmed in this case. michaela? >> you know, barbara, earlier in the hour we talked about the latest with nsa leaker edward snowden. i'm curious if there's any implications for him in this court-martial case. >> reporter: well, you know, i think it's exactly what a lot of people are watching. in both cases you have people who had access to massive amounts of classified information by all accounts illegally, took charge of it and then distributed it to unauthorized persons, essentially the public. and so the government is trying to bring a case in snowden, brought the case in manning. but the burden is on the government to prove perhaps that national security is harmed. and in the wikileaks case with
manning many people will tell you that the government hasn't shown that national security has been harmed. embarrassment, yes. many of the cables leaked to the wikileaks organization are hugely embarrassing to the united states, about government diplomacy, that sort of thing. but harm to national security. so i think it's fair to say a lot of people watching the manning case to see if that's a case that can be made or not made in edward snowden's matter. >> you can't try someone on the basis of embarrassment. thank goodness for both you and i. i'm sure we've had instances ourselves. barbara starr, pentagon correspondent. appreciate it. great chatting with you today. still ahead, the jury found george zimmerman not guilty, but could the justice department turn things around? we're going to ask our expert legal panel coming up next. i turned 65 last week. the math of retirement is different today. money has to last longer. i don't want to pour over pie charts all day.
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the not guilty verdict in the george zimmerman trial was greeted with shock and dismay by many but not by zimmerman's defense team. they were confident in their case, or in the lack of the prosecution's case. chris cuomo, anchor of cnn's "new day," my colleague, spoke with lead defense attorney mark o'mara to get more on his reaction to the case and the anger in the aftermath. >> the reaction. a lot of it outrage to the not guilty verdict. are you surprised by that part of the reaction? >> i'm a bit surprised that there's outrage because we had hoped that everybody would look at this case as being a very fair trial where both parties were represented well, where i think most if not all of the evidence came out and the jury took their time deliberating and came one a fair and just verdict. and we've all agreed that we should listen to a fair and just verdict. so i hope those people, even though they're frustrated, will
accept the verdict. >> just because the prosecutors didn't meet the burden according to the jury, that doesn't necessarily mean that george zimmerman did nothing wrong that night, right? is he able to distinguish between what he did that was illegal and criminally responsible versus just morally wrong, profiling the kid, taking an interest in someone who was doing nothing, having a weapon with a bullet already chambered in a situation that was unknown? does he feel any sense of moral wrong? >> i think he regrets having to take a life. he was put in a position where he had an untenable choice -- continue to get beat, maybe killed, or kill. and he made that decision. to look at things like why did he have a chamber -- a round chambered, chris, i think you would agree every person who has a gun for self-defense, if you don't have a round in the chamber it's a paperweight. if you're going to have a gun available to you, it has to be ready to use. it's a very safe weapon.
it was holstered properly. he waited a long time to use it. and it was done properly. does he regret taking a life? of course he does. absolutely. but he was put in the untenable -- >> does he -- >> go ahead. >> i'm sorry. the follow-up question is does he regret, though, picking out trayvon martin? he was wrong, right? this kid was not doing anything wrong. he belonged there. he had a right to the place and space where he was also. does he regret even singling him out that night? >> well, let's look at the circumstances as he was viewing them. he saw somebody who happened to be in the area where another person had just burglarized a home. yes, and it was a young black male. was that a focusing, a profiling? it was a suspicion. let's not also forget that trayvon martin was under the influence of some marijuana. it didn't come into trial, but we're not bound by those facts now. we can't ignore the fact that he had prior history of burglaries because he was found with the fruit of a burglary back several
months before. so you know, if we're going to look at the suspicions and the way he was acting, he was seemingly wandering around having spent 45 or 50 minutes traveling less than a mile. so if you're going to look at what george zimmerman saw that night, it's all got to be taken in context. >> i'm sure you share the hopes of all that we find a way to move forward after this verdict and that any wounds can be healed in time. do you have an ending thought about that? >> a lot of conversations. i have. and we have a lot of conversations to have. i've been an advocate for the fact that black youth, black youths in america are not treated well by the criminal justice system and we need to have that conversation. my fear is that we polarize the conversation because we attach it to a self-defense verdict that they have nothing to do with. >> so what is the next step? is george zimmerman free to go? is the case over? maybe not. some, including the naacp, are demanding that the department of justice step in with civil
rights charges against zimmerman. here's part of the statement from the d.o.j. "we have an open investigation into the death of trayvon martin. we will continue to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal investigation as well as the evidence and testimony from the state trial. experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes within our jurisdiction." joining me now is cnn legal analyst paul cowan and attorney midwin charles. welcome to both of you. paul, let's start right off the bat. the key word from the d.o.j. may be limited as in limited criminal civil rights statutes. what are their options here? >> well, they're in sort of a tough spot. you know, most of the time when they bring civil rights cases, they're usually bringing them against police officers who have used undue force on members of minority groups or other governmental agents, that they tend to be those kinds of cases. we haven't seen many where it's just one individual alleged of racial bias and then being violent to another individual.
now, there are federal statutes that do apply. there are hate crimes in which this kind of a prosecution can be brought. but i have to say, it's very, very rare, and i think in this case it's going to be very hard to prove. they couldn't prove it in the case before this jury. so i don't know how the feds think they might have a shot at it. but they're looking. >> they are certainly looking. midwin, what do you think about other civil suits like wrongful death? would you consider those on the table now? >> are you talking to me? >> yes. i'm sorry. i wasn't sure you were able to hear mep. >> i'm sorry. i thought you were still talking to paul. yes, it's entirely possible. the trayvon martin family could always potentially sue george zimmerman on wrongful death. as you know, wrongful death is a civil suit, not a criminal suit, and therefore the standard of proof is less. no one is going to disagree that we would not be here today if george zimmerman did not get out of his car that night. so there are certainly facts here that lead us to believe that george zimmerman caused the death of trayvon martin.
obviously, of course, apart from the fact that he put the bullet in his body. but a wrongful death suit i do think is appropriate, particularly since the family is trying to get justice. and one of the things too that i have to say here, michaela, is that while this decision i believe was legally correct, at least with respect to the second degree charge, i do not think it was morally correct only because it just sends a horrific message with respect to what a person can do with a gun. you can follow someone, you can single them out, you can pretty much be the aggressor, but yet if you happen to be the weaker person after you have started an altercation, you can just turn out and pull out your gun and kill the person. it just sends a horrific message. >> we're going to talk a little bit more a little bit later. paul, i want to ask you, was it the evidence or the attorneys that lost this case? >> it was clearly the evidence that lost the case. there were great attorneys on both sides. and frankly, the prosecutors had a tough, tough set of facts to deal with. you know, only -- they really only had george zimmerman's
version of what happened. and frankly, the jury obviously looked at this and came to the conclusion that trayvon martin threw the first punch, broke his nose, broke zimmerman's nose, and put zimmerman in fear of his life. i mean, that's the essence of a self-defense claim. i think there's a huge controversy about it around the country because in a lot of places like new york and chicago and l.a., where we have a certain hostility toward gun possession you bring a gun to a fistfight and you're going to get convicted of manslaughter or negligent homicide in most big cities. but down south i think there's a different attitude that people have about guns. >> all right. so we're putting this question to both -- to all of our legal panels today. and midwin, we heard you say what you think, was this verdict accurate. i don't want to take words from your own mouth, but you say it again for you. you see this as being an accurate verdict or no? >> i think it was accurate with respect to the second degree charge. i think they had enough evidence to find for manslaughter. but overall, i think it was
morally wrong. >> paul? >> well, they're not asked to make moral verdicts. >> i know. >> they're asked to judge the evidence -- midwin, you know that. >> legally correct. >> all right. it was a legally correct verdict and i think it adequately reflected the evidence at trial. i can't second-guess this jury. >> paul callan, and mid-winn charles, we appreciate both of you joining us today. thank you so much. >> okay. in the united kingdom anticipation is growing. in fact, anticipation is growing around the world. we're waiting. the new prince or princess to arrive. as the duchess of cambridge is now past her due date. we'll go live to london after this quick break. at university of phoenix we kis where it can take you.cation (now arriving: city hospital) which is why we're proud to help connect our students with leading employers across the nation. (next stop: financial center)
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that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. i feel i must sit up taller and be more proper as i tell you this story. it is the mother of all baby watches. all of great britain, the rest of the world, and of course we the media have our eyes on london's st. mary's hospital. that is where the duchess of cambridge could give birth at any moment to the future queen or king. our royal correspondent max foster is boiling water as we speak and he joins us live from london. how are you holding up? you're on baby watch and you have been for some time. >> reporter: what can i say? i mean, we're not used to sun in the uk. so i think it's all going to our heads a bit. if we spin the camera around, you can see the sort of waiting game as it unfolds. being called the great kate wait. as we sit around in the sun
waiting for something to happen. prince william was playing polo yesterday, looking really relaxed. we didn't feel yesterday as if the due date was imminent. but the palace has always indicated mid july. so today, tomorrow, possibly. we don't know. william has taken the next few days off work. so that's the one bit of information we've managed to get today. but they're not going to tell us officially anything until she's inside and in labor. so i'm sure she's more focused on that rather than us. but we're very much focused on her. >> i was going to say something about this business of playing polo yesterday. shouldn't he be sitting on pins and needles, worrying, knitting, picking a name, any of those things, max? >> reporter: well, yeah. the nam issue is obviously up there. they say they don't know if it's a boy or a girl. so they've got a list of names apparently that they may go for either way. i think that's probably true because the easiest way of dealing with the question is it
a boy or is it a girl is not knowing the answer, of course. so yeah, there is some debate. she actually went home to her mum's at the weekend. and from what we can tell she's either with her mum or with william at any one particular time. so depending on when she goes into labor she'll be coming up here with her mum or with william. but if he's off you can assume they'd both come up to london and are near the hospital. but i have to say, michaela, there's another rumor that the due date is the 23rd of july. and when you consider often the first baby's overdue, we could be here for another two weeks. so if you've got any ideas on keeping the troops entertained, send them to me. >> well, we have been giving you a hard time about enjoying the one day of sun in london. so we could just suggest you work on your suntan but put on sunscreen. max foster. good to see you. thanks for joining us. and we'll check back in with you. be sure to alert us as soon as you know anything. all right. we want to get to this. some new developments nujust inn egypt. cnn has learned that arrest
warrants have been issued for at least seven leaders of the muslim brotherhood. the group had backed ousted president mohamed morsi since he was deposed two weeks ago, the muslim brotherhood has been the target of a government crackdown resulting in scores of arrests. again, that information just in to our newsroom. still ahead, outrage across the country to the not guilty verdict of george zimmerman. some believe race was a deciding factor, and they are demanding justice. we're going to discuss what's behind the racially charged fallout next. hey, buddy? oh, hey, flo. you want to see something cool? snapshot, from progressive. my insurance company told me not to talk to people like you. you always do what they tell you? no... try it, and see what your good driving can save you. you don't even have to switch. unless you're scared. i'm not scared, it's... you know we can still see you. no, you can't. pretty sure we can... try snapshot today -- no pressure.
george zimmerman's acquittal in the shooting death of trayvon martin has certainly struck a raw nerve. both prosecutors and defense attorneys said the murder trial was not about race. yet thousands of protesters see it differently. now that zimmerman has been found not guilty. let's bring in our panel. we have political science and law professor carol swain of vanderbilt university and attorney cari lazere founder of a group that provides service for underprivileged youth. this is not an easy discussion to have. and i want to talk to you both frankly about the fact that we're seeing quite a disconnect between what we saw in the courtroom and what we're seeing on the streets and what we're
hearing in social media. there's an absolute disconnect. were people watching and experiencing two different things? >> i don't think it's so much that people were experiencing two different things as that there's one lens of what happens in the courtroom and another lens of what people see in terms of morality and ethics and what should happen in regard to a black boy walking down the street on his way home. he was killed for doing nothing but walking down the street on his way home. and that very simple reality is something that strikes so many people and produces rage and anger. if i can finish the point, as we look at that issue, it's also very hard to look at this case not within the context of a long history of black boys and young men who have died in this country and been killed and the legal system has not provided any type of recourse for our community. >> carol, your reaction? >> what i find is that in america, blacks and whites perceive two different realities. and it's very unfortunate with this administration, it seems that people do want to fan the
flames of racism. had race not been a major factor, i don't believe charges would have been brought. of those people marching and screaming in the streets, i seriously doubt if very few of them actually watched the hearings. and i mean if very many of them watched the hearings. >> so carol, to that point, what do you say to those that are angry with the verdict? >> i think that this is a teachable moment to explain how the criminal justice system works. if anything, trayvon -- this particular case had a jury that would have been sympathetic towards the prosecution. at times the judge seemed sympathetic towards the prosecution. and george zimmerman had a tough road to climb and i think the fact that they were able to reach a not guilty verdict given all the pressure that the jury should be commended and that the rest of us should turn our focus
to educating people about how the criminal justice system works. and also not using political correctness to prevent us from actually discussing all the factors involveding trayvon martin. he was not some innocent child. there was every evidence that he was a young man, like many of our young black men headed in the wrong direction. so we need to focus on -- >> i want to ask khari something. you talk about the teachable end. you work with underprivileged youth. i'm curious what the kids are coming to you and saying that you work with and what you are telling them. you want to be careful, as carol is mentioning, to not mix emotion with the courtroom verdict. do you see what i mean? >> i think that emotion is intertwined with the courtroom verdict. >> true. >> so i think that to the previous points, i couldn't disagree more. i think that race clearly runs through this case. and that when we're talking to young people, their fear is that they see in trayvon martin their own reality and their own experience. and the fact that trayvon martin
was on the wrong path, according to the other panelist, i think is a very, very dangerous statement to make. the path he was on -- >> there's every evidence that he was. there's every evidence he was. >> he was walking down the street and on his way to see his family and he was killed for that reason. >> that's ridiculous. >> look at the legal reality around the situation. at the end of the day, this is a black boy, a black child on his way home and he's now dead. and i think we have to use that as a teachable moment. we have to look at the criminal justice system and also look at the reality that race and racism in america is a reality that's been in this country since its founding. we've come to terms with it in some ways. we also have a very long path to walk. >> why do you think it's ridiculous? >> everything is not about race. and if you look at all the facts in this case, everything, you know, it's been very sympathetic towards trayvon martin. i commend his parents because they really have been exemplaries of how we would want parents to respond in this type of situation. this is not the 1950s. blacks do get justice in
america. despite the justice department now seemingly, at least contemplating intervening in this case, where the state courts have rendered a decision. this justice department of the u.s. should not be intervening in cases just because they don't get the politically correct decision that they want. they should be teaching the american people about the jury system, about the criminal justice system and about things that work well. and we should -- >> so, carol, you don't believe that they should pursue a civil suit or a civil rights case here? >> i don't -- i'm not discussing the civil -- no, i don't believe they should pursue a civil rights case. i think that what they should be doing is staying out of this case and what the rest of us should be doing is focusing on the high black on black crimes, the young black men that are just murdered every day in chicago and cities around the nation. we need to find out why black lives are devalued by black
people. we don't need to focus on one case and make it be about black and white when it's not about black and white. >> okay. >> it's a case about two minorities. one got killed and -- >> they are pushing us out the door. we have to go. i want to say thank you both to both of you. this is obviously a conversation that continues -- could continue for some time and should continue, to be honest. carol swain and khari lazar white. very passionate comments. we appreciate it. that's it for us here. thank you so much for watching. "newsroom" continues with wolf blitzer after this quick break. we're revving people up to take a lap around the legendary nascar race track with drivers from the coca-cola racing family. coca-coca family track walks give thousands of race fans the chance to get out, get moving, and have fun... all along the way. it's part of our goal to inspire more than three million people to rediscover the joy of being active this summer. see the difference all of us can make... together.
welcome to "cnn newsroom." i'm wolf blitzer in washington. the george zimmerman verdict is in but the whole saga is far from closed. in fact, we expect the attorney general of the united states, eric holder, to talk about the verdict and the investigation in a major speech. he's getting ready to deliver this hour. we expect it to begin in about 30 minutes. we'll have live coverage. also outside the justice department right now an organization representing some 34,000 black churches is planning on having a rally. the national black church initiative, as it's called, is pushing the government to prosecute george zimmerman under federal civil rights laws. in sanford, florida, right now, people are prepared to gather for a prayer event.