doing all this outreach. >> when people look and see that they can get high-quality, affordable health care for less than their cell phone bill, they're going to sign up. >> you know, first of all, i don't know how big his cell phone bill is, it's a very strange analogy. but doesn't that strike you -- the president's had four years, personally, to sell this. the government's been trying to sell it for three years. the democrats in congress have been trying to sell it. here we are a couple days before it goes into effect and he has to run to new york to have the former president, the potential future president prop up the current president. it just struck me as strange. >> i thought it was great. first of all, when you have a bill this awesome doing this much good stuff, telling these insurance companies they can't be denying people and dumping people. sometimes you need global
icons -- >> how big is your cell phone bill? >> we can talk about that after the show. we have people to debate this here tonight. bernie sanders supports obamacare and lindsey graham who is so opposed to obamacare he said in ain't view yesterday that the whole bill sucks. so welcome to you both. let me start with you, senator graham. in your home state of south carolina. we're both southerners. we have the 430,000 people right now in south carolina, don't have insurance a week from today. they're going to be able to sign up and get insurance. do you think they think this sucks? >> i think the people who had a full time john and who are now working 29 hours think it sucks. i think the employers who say i can't get there from here really believes it's bad for business.
at the end of the day -- >> there's some mother in your state, maybe she's got cancer, been turned down for insurance, a week from today she can go onto a website. health care.org. can you tell her that sucks? >> i think that's a good -- i think there are several things in the bill i would adopt, one, you cannot be denied insurance because you've been sick before. children can stay ton their parents' plan. these things make sense. the structure of the bill is so expensive to comply with that people in business where that mother may be working, you know, in the service industry, she could very well go from 40 to 29 hours because her employer can't afford it. you don't have to pick and choose between her being a full-time employee and being protected for not being denied for pre-existing illnesses. >> i want to talk to you about those numbers later, but let me understand this -- >> this is a bill that never
once has had a majority of americans favor it. it's a bill in which the democrats lost teddy kennedy's seat over it. it lost the house democrats 63 seats. and in the most recent polls you had about 45 to 27, people saying it's going to make it worse. >> i would look at it another way, newt. the way i look at it is the republicans have now tried 42 times to defund it without success. they went to the supreme court. the supreme court ruled it constitutional. they ran a presidential election on this issue, and they lost. but let me be very clear. i voted for obamacare. but to be very honest with you, i'm not going to argue with anybody who says it is too complicated. i am an advocate for a medicaid for all single payer program.
i think obamacare is a good rom any type program, it address some needs. the united states of america is the only nation in the entire industrialized world that does not guarantee health care to all people as a right. second of all, we end up spending almost twice as much per capita on health care as do the people on any other country. our outcomes and life expectancy falls behind a lot of country whose spend a lot less. so my view is we should learn from the rest of the industrialized world, say that every man, woman, child is guaranteed health care, expand medicare to all people. >> let me ask you this. you're in vermont. right on the edge of canada. canada is obviously a model. the system is going up in cost. 43,000 americans last year came to the united states for various things they couldn't get in
canada. now my question tor you would be if we went to national health care, where would the americans go who needed to get things they couldn't? the canadians come here because this is still a relatively open system. >> let me respond in this way. i was the first, actually, when you were speaker, i took vermonters over the canadian border because women with breast cancer were paying more for drugs than they were in canada. some of those are paid by their government. third point is that certainly the canadian system is not perfect. there is no health care system in the world that's perfect. but they have had as you know a very conservative prime minister in canada for many, many years. if you had a conservative prime minister who thought their system was so terrible, i would imagine he would have repealed it years ago. but he knew it would be
political suicide because it is so popular in canada. >> there are now 600 private clinics in quebec. and it is starting to go back to what we have. >> it is not anywhere close -- they will deal with their problems. they do have their problems, but i will tell you that the canadian system is a lot more popular in canada than our non-system. >> you cherry picked some things you liked about the bill and i like those things as well. one of the things i think a lot of people have been concerned about. you talk about these job numbers and people doing the fear mongering and saying the job number is bad. job growth is continuing. 91% of all the jobs that are being created are full-time jobs. if you're concerned about jobs in your own state, the hospital association got together and said in a report that if you fully implemented obamacare in your state you'd get 44,000 jobs. why don't you want 44,000 jobs?
you're a champion for jobs? why are you flushing 44,000 jobs down the toilet in south carolina? >> listen to the unions. all i can tell you is that this thing is stinking up the place in terms of what people thought they were getting. at the end of the day, by 2042, these two government programs we're talking about are going to take more money to run than we collect in taxes today. >> are you saying that the system we have right now -- >> i'm going to challenge bernie. if you makeover $250,000 a year in retirement. you get $108 a month subsidy from the federal government, i'm willing to tell people who make $250,000 a year you shouldn't get a penny from the federal government. >> unbelievable. once you start coming up with a
number. you may start at 250. some of your colleagues will bring it down to 150. then the next year it's welfare. i am more in favor. universal system which says if you are very, very wealthy, guess what, you are going to be paying more in taxes -- >> bernie is a man of his convictions. when you look at the world, most people are coming our way. we're not going their -- most people with socialized medicine are trying to find ways to lessen the cost because it's taken their economy down. competition is a good thing. >> let me just -- let me just respond. that's not quite accurate. somebody correct me if i'm wrong. i think about 17% of our gdp on health care. in scandinavia, they're spending 8, 9% of their gdp. they are spending less per
capita than we are. >> and they have two tanks and one airplane. >> let me ask you about this. in the two largest provinces in canada, quebec and ontario, they now spend 50% of their government funding on health care. half of it on health care. the problem is, and i think it's a universal problem across the planet, nobody has figured out a model which drives down cost. and the result is, if you assume everybody gets everything they want, you end up in a system which is ultimately going to bank rurupt the country. >> i don't think that's a fair statement. i think there are many countries around the world that are providing health care that is cost-effective. countries like denmark and sweden, people have decided they think it is in their best interest to have free education
in this country we don't do that. it costs 50, $60,000 for your kid does s to go to college. they think you get a better deal. >> the european model is not going to go well here when it comes to tax structure, education, health care. we're not europe. and the more you try to make us like europe the more rebellion you're going to get. we're not a perfect party, but one thing i think republicans deserve is a vote. i don't like the idea of defunding the government because we can't get a -- defund obamacare. i think the government shuts down, it willborough back on us. that's not a smart tactic. but why can't we have a vote on suspending the individual mandate for a year? we haven't had any opportunity really to vote on repealing the medical device tax. let us vote. sflo i have no problem with
that. we can talk about quebec. in this country you have ten republican governors who are opposite of you who are involved in expanding med kait kicaimedi. i'm talking about ohio where republican governors are doing right by their citizens and getting more people in the citizens. >> we're talking about america where this bill is stinking up the place. right now you have senator ted cruz who is about to start the fifth hour of his talkathon.
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welcome back to crossfire. we are one day closer to the senate regenting this crazy house bill that would defund obamacare, and i'm grad about that. but using these crazy senate rule does do that. now here is senator ted cruz. he is on the floor talkingen a talking and talking. it's not going to make any difference at all. now newt, you were the speaker
of the house. for people watching this, it seems like a zoo, a total circus. and we thought it was going to go from the house where it's nutty to the senate where it's going to be better, and it's even worse. it looks like total crazy town no washington, d.c. >> i have to confess i served in the house with both these guys and they went on to the senate. so i have some bias in what i'm about to say to you, but i think it's a disservice to the country what's happened over the last five or so years. for a very long time, if you were elected you had enormous power. but people like jessy helms, bob bird were geniuses at figuring out maneuvers that nobody else could figure out. forcing votes that made everybody else mad. they've coerced it down so it's
a dick torrial system. harry reid has the ability to stop anything from coming up. i think in theca case of ted cr, they do this because they can't get a vote. people would have said okay. but they can't even get a vote on something where they haven't, they probably have a majority of the senate to repeal the tax on medical technology and they can't get a majority to be allowed to joet. >> is that your explanation? >> way wrong. >> way wrong. >> not even close. lindsey will remember this, because we just did this -- >> i'm sure this is going to be right. >> we had a modest stance on
energy . chamber of kprs commerce supported this vil. since obama has been president, i'm not saying in the past. democrats, since baum has been president, the number of filibuster efforts have been unprecedented. >> i think they got it backwards. reid is the dictator ship of the minority. >> why is it impossible. they can't, places where it would have popular support. individuals should have the same break the president's giving his cronies in the terms of waivers. there's a big majority for repealing the tax. >> if you're still awake, i may put you to sleep explaining the
senate rules. there's a thing called filling up the tree. we're going to take the house bill which you think is crazy. i can't imagine filibustering the bill i'm actually for. but under the procedure, there will not be any amendments to the bill. we can't bring up the amendment saying weigh should get no better deal than the people -- >> let me ask you this. now you're, here's what i, you're calling senator reid a dictator. >> he's a majority leader. >> i say he's a leader. as much as i don't like what ted cruz is doing, he's showing leadership himself. you're supposed to be our great statesman from the republican party. where's your leadership. if you hate obamacare this much, why don't you go and support ted cruz? this is an honest question. i tried to figure out, since you
hate obamacare so much, what is your plan to stop it? your plan to stop it is apparently to let it pass. that confuses people more than what's doing. >> i'm trying to get votes on a bill that i think can be dramatically changed if people had what ted is doing is saying, i don't like obamacare. well, i don't like it either. i'm not willing to shut the government down next monday. i don't think the president at the end of the day is going to give up on his signature issue. do you? >> i don't. don't you think ted cruz, isn't he the leader in the senate? >> he is showing passion. what i'm trying to do is build a party that has a bright future if we want one. and i can tell you this. that the best thing the republican party can do is have a debate on obamacare. it is now hilarhilarycare.
if you gave me a motor about it hurting business, it would pass. if you gave me a vote to the individual mandate like we did, it would pass. >> let me jump in. i happen to think and by the way, newt, you ran a pretty tough ship there as well when you were speaker. i happen to think the rules in the senate are pretty crazy. you and i could go down there and stop the entire united states government. is that what democracy is about? i don't think so. here's the point. lindsay correctly says there are some bills not getting to the floor that might pass. fair enough. let me tell you something else. i happen to believe the reason that congress is now held in such contempt is the american people are hurting very badly. middle class in my view is collapsing. poverty numbers are at an all time high. it got between the very, very rich and everybody else. >> they blame obama forefor that. do you in. >> no.
it is a long term trend will. >> the bottom line is, what do the american people want? they want us to create jobs. they want us to rebuild a crumbling infrastructure and create millions of jobs them want us in my view, you quoted polls. the raise the minimum wage. they want us to observe these loopholes. one out of four corporations doesn't pay a nickel in taxes. and americans are saying we have to cut 4 million people from food stamps. >> if i was willing to flatten the tax code and take deductions away from the wealthy to pay down debt, would you extend the age based on the fact we're all living likestrom thurmond? >> absolutely not. >> a moment of bipartisanship that quickly passed. >> at a time when the top 1% own 38% of the wealth of america and
the bottom 60% own all of 2.3%, will you work with me to ask the wealthy to stop paying their fair share of taxes? >> here's what i will do. i will create a tax code that creates jobs for more americans. i would tell the wealth people, you won't get any more six dis. you will have to take less because we can't afford to give everybody what we promised. if you will help me reform the tax code. we're becoming greece if we don't do this. >> over 30 years. i want to harmonize it, 67, i want testing for my income level. newt's income level. pay the actual costs. >> you support the chain cpi. we cut $650 from social security
benefits between the ages of 65 and 70. and make massive cuts for disabled vets. >> i'm trying to save the country from bankruptcy. when the president of the united states who i usually don't agree with, put cpi on the table, i thought it was a courageous thing to do. i am willing to flatten that. at a code out and go to the people of manager. and we'll take deductions off, take it back for the many, not just the few. if you don't help with entitlements. >> when lindsey talks about reforming entitlements, he means cutting social security and medi-cal. i think that's a bad idea. >> and i would say, we're about to run out of time. >> what you're talking about is going bankrupt. we want to invite you to come back. we'll have you back on access for health care. the of two you. and we ought to come back and talk more about, how do we solve this? >> 80 million babyboomers will
retire in the next 40 years. how do we replace them? >> the first maybe stop -- >> 80 million people coming into the system. >> what about first of all, you supported $4 billion subsidies to oil company that don't need them. we have a lot of companies. >> you almost agreed with him for a second. i was sit go back. >> i want to thank senator sanders and senator graham. next, we cease fire. is there anything that the two of us can agree on?
tonight we've been debating obamacare. let's call a cease fire. is there anything we can agree on? i think clearly, obamacare after four years of effort has not been very well explained and most americans, whether you like it or dislike it don't fully understand. >> i agree there's so much good stuff in there. i wish more people knew about it. i wish bill clinton had come in earlier. >> we may see him soon in a long infomercial. >> if you want to keep this conversation going, you can do that. go to facebook or twitter. should obamacare implementation be delayed to make changes on the law? 39% of you say yes. 61% say no. that is the right answer, by the
way. from the left i'm dan jones. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow from another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >> "outfront," president obama gets snubbed. and the biggest news from the u.n. was not what happened but what didn't happen. a female body has been found among the attackers in kenya. was the woman known as the white widow involved in the massacre? and ted cruz is in the middle of a marathon speech over defunding obamacare. is he tilting at windmills? good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett outfront. president obama snubbee