them from using it to raise money. the democratic national committee raised $850,000 the first day of a shutdown at a fundraiser for charlie rangel of new york. but at least they get to work out. as democrat bruce greyly quoted out, there's hardly anybody working down there. no towel service. and we pay a fee to belong to the house gym. this is no different than if you're working for an employer that offers a wellness program. maybe he forgot the taxpayers paid for his extracurricular scrunches. thank you for joining me today. "legal view" with ashleigh banfield starts now. i want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. 12 hours, 59 minutes and counting to the default deadline

for the united states of america. both the house and the senate trying to work some last-minute magic. all of this, while the stock market here and around the world reacting. and in some cases in a very big way. strangely enough, the numbers on the dow up 193 points at this time. as we know, that can always change. hello, i'm ashleigh banfield. it is wednesday, october 16th. good to have you with us. it hasn't been announced, but from all indications we may actually have a deal, folks. at least, and i say at the very least, in the senate. a deal to re-open the government and to head off a first-of government default of the united states. i want to get straight to dana bash on capitol hill. you've been working your sources. what did you tell us? >> reporter: well, that the leaders in the senate, republican leader mitch

mcconnell and democratic leader have come to an agreement on how to re-open the government and how to lift the debt ceiling so the country doesn't default. at this moment they're meeting to get wreefed on the deal. and shortly after that, maybe within the next hour, we do expect to be formally announced. the senate comes in at noon. so within an hour it's possible they'll go to the senate floor and talk about it there. it's possible we'll get a statement prior to that. but i think from the perspective of members of congress who are worried about the markets, what it says at the bottom of our screen for them is key. it says that a deal is reached. they're hoping that that will calm the markets. there was certainly concern about that after the house, which was on even more of a roller coaster than usual ended up pulling their bill last night. and what are the contours of the deal?

let's put on the screen. open the government and keep the government running until january 15th. raise the debt ceiling and deep that up until february 7th. and appoint budget negotiators, people who are going to actually sit down and work out the budget for the year in the way that they're supposed to do it. and the hope among people on both parties is that they will actually work out something broad enough to incorporate some of the big challenges to this economy and the budget, entitlement reform, tax reform, things like that. and then lastly you might ask, what about obama care? the issue that started this whole crisis almost three weeks ago now. it looks like at the inld of the day, the only thing that conservatives are going to get with regard to changing obama care at all is an anti-fraud measure, which has bipartisan support. the idea being that people who are getting government subsidiaries because of low

income will have to have their income verified. those are the con fewers of the deal. now we expect as i said the senators to announce it. the next question is how is this going to get voted on? house republican leaders are meeting as we speak, ashleigh, to finalize what we believe is going to be the process that they're going to use, which is that the house will actually take up the senate bill first. because it's just procedurally, it will expedite the process. at this point, it does look like all of the road blocks with reregard to the vote counting are not there. the road block is now really the block and calendar. that is what we're going to see how it plays out and how quickly they can get this done. and there are hurdles for them to potentially cross. >> but at least when you say the road blocks that were there yesterday would not be there

today because of course there would be the democrats on board in the house for that kind of vote. i want to zip over to the white house. jim acosta. has been been any reaction at this point to this notion -- and my guess is, we're not the first ones to know that there's a deal in the works. but are they saying anything publicly? >> reporter: no public official grand statement out of the white house yet into what they're seeing. one thing we can point out and talk to, an official this morning said, we'll see. as to what will develop after the senate deal. they feel like they've seen this movie before. earlier this week there were times when it looked like they had deal up on capitol hill only for the deal to get blown up. they are proceeding with caution at this point and that is understandable. one thing went to point out, as dana was mentioning, there are the four items in the senate deal. and one of those items deals

with obama care. income verification requirements that republicans would like to see beefed up to make sure people who are getting subsidiaries deserve to get those subsidiaries as part of hemth care reform. and i talked to one official who said that is not a big deal to this white house. that is not viewed as a major concession given away by the president in exchange for raising the debt kreemg and getting the government re-opened. that is another sign that this deal could work out. but ashleigh, of course, all of this depends on what happens in the house of representatives. it looked like yesterday that john boehner could get together the votes that he needed. but that didn't work out. we're not there yet. not to the finish line. it autos not ev it's not even noon. if all of this works out, it will be interesting to see how the president responds to all of this. the president throughout all of this has said i'm not doing major concessions in exchange

for opening up the government. i'm not doing major concessions for raising the nation's debt ceiling. he would talk about how he's not going to pay a ransom. if all of this works out, president obama will largely be getting what he wants and that's not something going to go over well with a lot of republicans. but at this point, he's got the upper hand. >> if i could for a moment, jim stand by. dana, i've got to ask you about this notion that the budget deadline is set at mid-december. when you put the calendar up, there was no date circled or hard and fast guidelines on what that exactly means. and judging from the past, it seems that this government, democratic and republican can't seem to be do anything unless they have guns held to their heads. and that little calendar didn't look like there was anything on the line. >> reporter: we'll see. the going into this, our understanding was that there weren't going to be really specific parameters for what

they needed to get out of those budget deals expect a budget. but the calendar is december 13th, that is the date, if you look there, december 13th is the time that we are told that budget negotiators will have to use as their deadline to get this budget done. i think the good news is that there does seem to be genuine bipartisan desire from the budget chair in the senate and budget chair in the house, genuine desire to actually roll up their sleeves and start working on this in a bipartisan way. we have not seen that. you heard democrats say until they're blue in the face that they tried to get this conference going 19 or 20 times and republicans were blocking it. if this does go through, that will start a process, really basic process, that should have gone on -- that should have gone on for years and it should have

gone on for every year and hasn't. they'll restart it. >> i hear you. stand by if you will. for a moment i want to bring in wolf blitzer. forgive me if i am not popping a champagne cork at this point. i see february 7th and january 15th as potentially the days that we need to block off our vacations because we're going to be in the same boat. am i too cynical? >> reporter: no you have a right to be cynical about that kind of stuff. we've gone through this so many times in the past. let's see what happens come january and february. if on the other hand, house senate budget confer rees can work out some long-term grand bargain type issues, entitlement reform and tax reform, but that deadline, there's no hard and fast rules or enforcement mechanisms along that line, let's say they can, maybe they'll be encouraged to go

ahead and runs again raise the debt ceiling come february. once again make sure the government doesn't shut down come january. i'm an optimist by nature. let's hope that cooler heads and smarter people will prevail. >> good luck with that. wolf, thank you for that. stand by if you will. there are a couple of voices that can chime in on this to help navigate all of this. robert rice was the first term labor secretary for president clinton and he's now a author and commentator. and not to mention that he's at the center of a new film, "inequality for all." i've got to ask you, first of all for your initial comments knowing that we may actually finally be at the end of the stream before we go over the waterfall. i guess it's a big deal.

although it's frustrating to say that we're only in a can kicking mode. >> i don't believe anything until i actually see it these days. yes it looks like john boehner will take a bill to the full house. and he will not wait for the republicans to give him the green light to go ahead. that's a huge concession on his part. a lot of conservative republicans in the house are not going to be happy about it. it looks also as if in the senate there is some agreement or at least the beginnings of the agreement. we don't know what senator mike lee and senator ted cruz are going to do about this. they might try to run out the clock. that is a potential danger. the stock market looks optimist optimistic. a lot of investors look like we're on a way to a deal. the bond markets are not that optimistic. the interest raise continue to rise. those interest rates are some

indication that a lot of lenders to the united states think that things are still very, very risky. >> let me ask you this, while there maybe many who are watching this thinking, thank heavens, we've averted disaster. we've been at this point too often. and this time it's been awfully frightening. has any damage been done even if we get a deal? >> some damage has been done to the faith that the global lenders, including law enforcement of lenders in the united states have towards the united states. the ability of the united states government to actually do what it needs to do in a timely way. when the credit rating agency kind of issued a bright yellow warning sign yesterday -- >> we're putting it up on the screen. go ahead. >> investors are worried that the government of the united states -- it's not the united states can't pay its bills.

obviously it can. but the government is not capable of making a decision that allows it to pay its bills. that is going to trouble global investors for quite some time. >> should i about that concerned about fitch's warning light and today would that make any difference to might that warning light be extinguished after today if there is a deal? >> you might be a little concerned. this is really a warning about the government's capacity to do what they need to do with regard to global financial markets. this is not a warning light about the united states' ability to pay. it's a warning light about the government and the government of the united states. the good news here is that maybe -- and if you want to an onty mist -- maybe after going through what we are going through, the shutdown and the reaction of the bond markets and credit markets and the stock market and also the reaction of the business community, which is very important to the republican party, all of that may indicate

that next time we don't skate this close to the edge. but who knows. we've done it too many times before. >> secretary, thank you. i'm not sure how busy you are. but since we're in breaking news, i'm going to ask if you might be able to stand by and stick around for a little bit. i have a few other questions for you. take a look at the bottom of the screen. the dow is up 203. we're over 200 pointsed and it is climbing. this could be as a result of the news that there is a deal. there is a potential senate deal that has been struck. and now, of course, it has to be voted on. because once planned to stop a default government shutdown reaches the house of representatives, people have to say yes or no. we're going to talk to one democrat who is going to be in that predicament pretty soon. james cliburn coming up next. oh, that's helpful!

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just want to update you on the debt ceiling crisis. we have breaking news. look on the bottom much your screen. senate deal reached. that's always good news. but i've got to be honest, we've been here before. we've had deems in both houses somewhat agreed upon and then, of course, there's always something that scuttles it. at least now we can say this. there is a deal reached. there are parameters of the deal. they are surprising given where we were three weeks ago. however, now it has to be determined where's it going to be voted on first. will the house take up the bill first? will the senate take up the bill first? one process is a lot longer than others. and in the meantime, take a look at the dow. that started to skyrocket within the last 20 minutes. it's over 196 points right now. that's significant also. and as we've been reporting, the senate plan would keep the government open through january

15th. it would also extend the debt ceiling, that's the point at which the government runs out of bargaining power, that was about 12 hours away. instead we can go all the way to february 7th. it is possible, again, that this could come to a vote by noon today. but faxes within the gop has so far left the house with no plan of its own. james clyburn is an assistant leader in the house. he joins us live. can you tell me what you've heard about this and if you know whether or not this may end up being a deal on the house floor within hours? >> thank you so much for having me. yes, i have heard that we will do something today. i'm -- i'm not going to say whether it will be two hours, three hours, or four hours. but i'm making plans for it to happen today. >> and just given the fact that this would be something that has

been reached in a bipartisan way in the senate, that will effectively say that there would be enough votes in the house to pass this regardless of what a very conservative faction might think about it. democrats would vote on this if speaker boehner brought it to the floor? there would be enough votes to pass this? >> you're absolutely correct. if the speaker were to bring this deal to the floor, it will pass. it will pass overwhelming democratic vote. i have no idea what the vote count will be on the other side of the aisle. but i think i know enough people over there well enough to say a significant number of republicans will vote for it as well. we'll get far beyond the 217 votes that will be required. >> and can i ask you this, if if i may. i'm going to say the say thing i

just said to wolf blitzer, forgive me for not popping the champagne corks. while we're celebrating this, it's just a temporary deal. we're still nowhere near to a solution that the united states of mesh finds itself because of people like you and your other colleagues on the hill. can you promise me, sir, that we're not going to be in this same boat on february 7ed or january 15th if this deal with those dates passes? >> even if i were the speaker of the house or the democratic leader, that's not a promise that i would make. simply because it is not always in the hands of the speaker or the leader for these things to run smoothly. i think -- i know speaker boehner well enough to know that for a long time he wanted to be where we are today. but circumstances are of such within his conference that it's not solely his decision to make. and that's what a democracy is

all about. if we want things to be very efficient, you'll have one person rule. that's the most efficient way to do things. but when you have a democracy, you have to take into account everybody who is in the process, both the minority and the majority, and sometimes you have to look at the minority within the majority, and that's what's been going on with speaker boehner. so that's the way democracy works. it's not always real pretty. in fact, often it's not. but i believe it's the most effective and most productive way to get things done. so i'm pleased to see that we have gotten to the point where we are today. i'm not going to make any promises beyond the budget, that is beyond the 13th of december. no other -- thenor beyond the 1

of jab. i would hope that the debt ceiling business on february 7th, that we get that done long before the 7th of february. because that, to me, is what's critical to us maintaining consumer confidence and keeping the plan that is necessary for people to do business, and that is not ever allow the full faith and credit of the united states to be questioned at home or abroad. >> well, you know, if i could say one thing, it's probably a reason that you've done so well at your job. because you can't make a promise like that to me because i have videotape. and unfortunately, that would come back and bite you. >> that's right. >> good luck. i hope it works out today and i hope you and i aren't arguing tomorrow about why it didn't. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up we're going to be

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debt ceiling deadline. welcome back to our viewers in the united states and around the world. breaking news at this hour here in the united states of a senate agreement to avoid the debt default. and the dow couldn't be happier. jumping over 200 points. we're settling now at 177, but there is a lot of movement based on the news and the deal isn't even final yet.

and with the risk of default still with us, the fitch rating industry has put the united states on notice. it's threatening to downgrade the united states aaa credit rating. yes, i know, moody has done that but fitch didn't. what exactly is that going to mean? the last time it happened, the s&p removed that sterling aaa credit rating, stocked nose-dived. but not much really changed in the long-run. we're all worried about what's going to happen when the clock strikes midnight tonight. no worries, no pumpkins. here is what could transpire and it is serious. the global stock market could crash. there could be a dploebl recession. money market funded could collapse which would result in a run on banks. some financial institution could fail and that could result in

lending -- lending to seize up, drying up of money out there. what does it mean to you? you and your kitchen table economics? richard quest is here to cut through all the financial jargon. when it comes to the government, it's just like balancing your checkbook. >> yes. the treasury brings money in and sends it out. and if you look at the treasury website, you can see exactly how much money is coming in and out. and just as much as you may put money into the tea pot to pay the electricity and you may give your children pocket money, what the treasury can do is go and get that money back. that's what they've been doing for the last few weeks. >> and putting ious in the tea pot. >> yeah yes. and telling the children it will all be paid in the future and not to worry about it. what we are seeing at the moment, and this is fascinating, the dow jones. >> what is going on? not even a deal, no vote. >> but we saw this last week.

the market is so much of a pressure cooker at the moment and so concerned about this, that the mere suggestion of a deal as sent the dow up the best part of 150 points this morning and now over 200 points coming back off the top. but i caution. this is a bit like scotch mist. it could disappear very quickly. if a deal disappears, you will see it reverse. >> and it will be down just as much? >> not necessarily. the market still believes that a deal will be done in time before they have to stop putting money in the tea pot and robbing the children's pocket money. >> i want to play what one of our congressman said to kate bouldan. this is one of your leaders, it is steve change, the republican from iowa and refusing to the potential that we could default

on paying all of our tea pot economics. have a listen. >> i'm not worried about this thing that they term default. we are going to service our debt and pay the interest first and roll the principal over. i don't believe it's a hard break tomorrow. it's just a date they picked on the calendar. >> he's right. it autos not a hard date. this is not like the budgshow-d. what it is is a date upon which jack lew can no longer go to the tea pot and take any money out. that's true. eventually a financial bill will arrive that lew can't pay and -- >> and he'll have to prioritize. >> right. and i think the congressman is right. he will -- you know, the debt will be paid first. but that, in some view, could be a selective default. >> i'm terrible with chinese phonetics -- they released this

statement and this is a partial piece of the statement. perhaps it's a good time for the be if you hadaled world to start considering a de-americanized world. mr. secretary, when i read thing things like that it makes me wonder what it takes to lose your super power status when it comes to being the richest nation and being the guy who really calls the shots. what is the beginning of the end look like? >> well, the beginning of the end i don't think is happening, ashleigh. but it could happen in the sense that the dollar is now what's called the reserve currency around the world. most transactions, business transactions between companies and among nations are done in dollars. but if the world economy start losing its confidence in the dollar as a strong and stable currency because of all the

shenanigans in washington, then it is possible that more and more transactions will be done in other currencies, particularly the ejuan from china or a yen or any other combination of currency. and this is something that many people in the global economy are concerned about. we ought to be concerned about it too here in the united states. because we have been getting a big, free ride on the fact that the dollar is the international currency of choice. if it's not the international currency of choice, then the dollar starts dropping relative to other occurrence says. that means everything that we purchase from the rest of the world becomes that much more expensive. >> we've been good at paying our bills. and if we can go to free credit score.com, we would get a pretty good rating. i want to bring in dana bash. i want to know on the bottom of the screen below you is is the dow, it's up 181 points now. we've flirted with over 200.

and all of that based on the news that there is a deal in the works. not based on any kind of vote. do you have any further information on the deal? >> our understanding now is that the senate leaders are going to talk about it formally on the senate floor when it convenes at noon. we talked about at the top of the hour, there was some discussion about whether or not they should put out a paper statement. but frankly, my sense is that i don't think that it's for sure, but knowing how they operate, my sense is they are too watching the dow and seeing that they're fine. that they don't have the pressure to formally announce it before noon because the market is already reacting to the news reports about the fact that they have a deal. top of the hour, when the senate comes in, must-see tv. >> but any word about a potential meeting between the senate majority leader and the

speaker of house today? >> no word about a meeting. i think what we're looking for next and this is probably what you're referring to, is the question about whether the house is going to take the deal, take the legislation that they write-up in the senate and put it on the house floor first in order to ex-speak diet the process. that would expedite it in a big way. we're talking about potentially days. if ted cruz and other republicans decide that they want to use the too manies that they have at their disposal, any senator does, to slow this train down. so we're waiting to see if that is formal. you had at the poem of your screen they insist that no decision has been made. but multiple sources say no decision has been made. but certainly the indication that democrats are getting in the house and in the house and others are getting is that that is likely where john bain he is

going to go. but as you've within saying with other guests that we've had on, just when we think the house is going to go one way, they go another way. this is a process question. it's a question of how it's going to happen, not whether it's going to happen. how and when, not whether. >> and just again, the dow at 178, up. but the debt clock over on the far right, 12 hours, 23 minutes until this country is no longer to borrow money. congressional republicans say, listen, all we want is fiscal responsibility. but that clock doesn't care. default comes when that clock hits zero on something. representative jeff denham is on capitol hill. he's waiting for a break-through plan. we're going to talk to him next. is the vote on his part going to be up or down to any potential

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welcome back to our viewers in the united states and around the world. breaking news this hour of a dial in the united states senate to head off a default on this country's debt. now the pressure is building on the speaker of the house, john boehner. so far he has been unable to push through a plan that both tea party members and gop moderates can agree upon and

approve. and prospects of a house vote on the senate plan remain unclear as of now. a member of his own party likens his job to, quote, herding cats. and that can't be good. earlier we spoke with democratic james clyburn. and now jeff denham. thanks so much for being with us. first to the breaking news. has the speaker been reaching out to you? have you been hearing within your party whether or not that vote is going to actually hit the floor at some point today? >> ashleigh, thanks for having me back again. we hear that there is an agreement brewing right now, both in the senate as well as talks in the house. we need to do everything we can to avoid this debt ceiling. we understand, both republicans and democrats, understand how bad this can be for our nation as well as the world economy. >> so based on the contours that our dana bash has been outlining, a budget deadline set

for around december 13th, raising the debt ceiling through february 7th and funding the government through january 15th, and the only little concession at this point looks like income verification for the citizens plying for the subsidiaries in obama care, it's a far cry from what house republicans were asking for two and a half weeks ago. defuncting of obama care. could you vote for this? >> i'm waiting to see what the details of the agreement are. but certainly i've got big concerns. neither party has made big concessions on this issue. and we've failed over the last couple of years to have a debt comission that provides real results to the american people. the biggest issue for me is if we're going to set up a separate committee or take this into conference, i want some guarantees for the american public that congress and the president is going to get its job done this time. >> based on the contours again,

the parameters that i just laid out, because that seems to be the working position of what this bill would outline, again, could you vote yes based on what i just explained to you? >> not without the understanding of the guarantee of what this conference committee is going to come up with. it's been done in the past. we had simpson and bowls. that was the president's own comission that had bipartisan results. yet those results were never implemented. this is an ongoing problem. the president himself said it was unpie tree yotic to have $9 trillion worth of debt. now we're double that. so $60,000 for every man, woman, and child. that's something that downgrades with each of the financial institutions just as much as the financial crisis that we're about ready to hit. >> i want to keep pressing you on this. i understand what you're saying. you want to know about the

budget negotiations and what kind of pressures you can hold over them. but short of a gun being held to both of these parties, y'all can't seem to come to any agreement. and i highly doubt that in this bill is there could be any language that would conote a gun to your heads. could you not at least move forward to open the government after 16 days and avert catastrophe, but effectively really destroy our national credit rating? could you not at least move forward with these parameters? >> i believe that we've got to do something. i think we've all wanted to avert this fiscal cliff, huge debt ceiling that's hanging over our head right now. and i also agree that these guarantees, while we've had so many different committees and debt commissions, that there is no certainty on what will actually come out, that it will actually get implemented. one guarantee we could have,

certainly the president could come out and show leadership and say, we're putting this committee together. whatever they come up with, bipartisan coming out of that committee, i will implement. that is something i think the american people would like to see. >> speaking of bipartisan politics, it's been eating away at me. why is it if many in your party have felt that as though you've been held hostage by a very intransient wing of your party, many say the tea parties have been dictating the politics for the rest of your party, why haven't the rest of them gotten together and cut the tea party out of the negotiating process and be able to move forward instead of sticking around and being stymied? >> we can continue to pass bills into the house. but it comes down to the leadership of the president. is he going to implement what comes out of this committee.

i don't think that there's anybody in my party that's holding the conference up any more than the challenges that i've seen on the democratic side. what we need to do is come together for an american solution. >> congressman denham, thank you for your time. we'll watch you on the floor today. if in fact you end up there. and we'll see how things go. and the best of the luck to ending this disaster. so i want to get a quick final comment. we're at 200 on the dow. we've been flirting around 200 points since the word of the deal became public a little over an hour and a half or so ago. and again, we could get that formally announced very shortly. i want to bring in the former labor secretary. when you hear those two different sides answering these questions about will you or won't you, it seems like everybody is still stuck on the notion but how am i going to have leverage later, certainly

from the republican side. how am i going to have leverage later if i go ahead and give this, what they call, blank check now? isn't that fair? >> i think the real sad commentary on our democracy right now is that financial markets are pushing our representatives to do the right thing. it's not as much average citizens are having that much impact. although the polls are showing a tremendous pressure on the republican party right now, greater pressure arguably than on the democratic party in terms of loss of favor abilities, but it's the financial markets that are calling the shots. and the expectation is that when we get to the next deadline in january and february, those financial markets will already have internalized an assumption about the future, about whether in fact our government is working or not work pg. and that pressure is also going to be greater than it is now. in other words, it wall street

essentially that is determining the outcome of what happens in washington. >> what's your outlook for today, mr. secretary? >> well, i think that the stock market is going to do relatively well in terms of short-term speculators. i think the bond market in terms of interest being paid and demanded to lend money to the treasury, is still going to be riled and we're still going to be seeing interest rates on short-term treasuries that are far too high relative to what you and i would like to see as the real risk. >> another quick look at the dow. we're up 201 points. again on the news that the senate deal has been reached. thanks so much for being us with. >> thanks ashleigh. >> we're going to shift our coverage down to washington, d.c. live. wolf blitzer is going to take over the coverage affair the short break. thanks for watching. we'll see you again tomorrow. it's time for advil cold and sinus. [ male announcer ] truth is that won't relieve all your symptoms.

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i'm wolf blitzer in washington. we're following breaking news, really important breaking news here in the nation's capital. there may be a deal to end the government shutdown and raise the nation's debt ceiling. we have our reporters standing by to follow what's going on. we're anticipating a formal statement from the senate leadership at the top of the hour. dana bash joins us from capitol hill, jim acosta at the white house, gloria borger is here with me in our d.c. studio. dana, first of all, what exactly

do we think will happen within the next ten minutes or so the? >> we expect the senate to formally convene and senate leaders, democratic leader harry reid, republican leader mitch mcconnell to, once all of the pomp and circumstance is done, the prayer and the pledge and things like that, that they will come and formally discuss what we have been reporting and what mitch mcconnell has been telling his republican rank and file behind closed doors about for the last hour, which is a deal that they have reached. the deal is very similar to what we have been talking about for two days. with regard to what senate leaders are talking about. open the government immediately, keep the government running until january 15th. raise the debt ceiling immediately and do that till february 7th, and make sure that budget conferrees negotiators, people who are supposed to actually do the work of congress put a budget together that they have a deadline to do that by

december 13th. then of course, there is the whole question of obama care. after all of this, wolf, the obvious question is, well, did republicans get any changes to obama care? very, very small. very minor. a provision to basically an anti-fraud provision to verify people's incomes if they're getting subsidies for obama care. i was just told this morning that is actually something democrats wrote. i think it's important to take a step back and sort of look where we are and also know that is why in the halls here right now, you're hearing so much frustration not just from democrats but from republicans about this from their perspective, this wrong-headed strategy from the get-go to the try to attach defunding obama care to funding the government. they knew many republicans say it was never going to work. the numbers just aren't there in terms of the votes in the senate. there's still a democratic president. it was never going to work and there's a lot of frustration

that after all of this, there's barely any change to obama care. i mean to say it is minuscule is probably giving it too much credit. >> income verification, everybody wants income verification. they don't want any fraud as far as that is concerned. that is a very, very modest adjustment, tweak, if you will, to obama care. i want to make sure we welcome our viewers not only here in the united states but around the world. there are enormous international ramifications to what is about to happen here in washington, d.c. ramifications for america, for the united states, also for countries around the world. dana, a quick question before i bring jim acosta into this conversation. it's a little unusual, people probably will be a little confused wondering if this deal is worked out in the u.s. senate, why is it going to come up for a vote in the house of representatives first? >> reporter: i should say we don't have firm confirmation that that is going to happen. it looks like the most likely route right now. but if it it is in fact a senate

deal but is brought up first in the house, the reason is because procedurally, it would be the fastest way to get this deal out of congress, to get it passed through the house, through the senate, to the president's desk. but again, i was just e-mailing and. >>ing with house republican leadership sources. they insist that john boehner has not made a final decision, that that is the route he's going to take. and as you know, things have changed moment to moment within the walls of john boehner's office over the past few days and weeks. so i think we should certainly we're hearing optimism in the democrats that it's going to happen, probability from republican sources but it's not a done deal. if it were to happen, that would be the reason just to expedite it. there is still senator ted cruz, mike lee, the republicans who helped devise this strategy which most of the republican colleagues think was wrong-headed to device the strategy to do whatever it takes to stop the trains because of

their opposition to obama care. they still have tools at their disposal as any senator does to slow down this train. ted cruz and his aides they are being very cagey whether they will use those tools. if he does, you can be sure, according to several senate democratic sources i've talked to that senate democratic leader harry reid will force him to do so to on the to this in the view of all public to have him come to the senate floor and i say i object because of x, y and z effectively trying to make him a pariah when it comes to wall street and the economy. >> it if it does pass the house of representatives before it comes to the senate, there are less roadblocks that could delay passage. 60 senators will support harry reid and mitch mcconnell but the delay process could be a few more days. no one wants that. >> that is an important point and a good point to button on, wolf. by all accounts, this is just a

matter of time. it's not as we have seen the roller coaster of the past few weeks where are they going to have the votes, aren't they going to have the votes. the votes appear to be there in both chambers for this deal. it's just a question of what that can happen. that would depend how the process o process, would out. >> the market up nearly 200 points so far. dana, stand by. what are they saying at the white house? we should be getting a formal white house press briefing at the bottom of the hour when it's scheduled. jay carney, the white house press secretary, jim acosta standing by at the white house. are they thrilled, smiling, happy? what's the mood over there, jim? >> they don't have the champagne bottles out of the fridge just yet. i think that the collective sense over here at the white house is we'll see. mainly because thieve seen this movie before, they've seen hopeful signs come out of the capitol and then seen those

deals blow up. that happened yesterday when we saw house speaker john boehner try to corral tea party republicans behind some kind of deal. he couldn't even do that. there is real curiosity at the white house what can be accomplished over on capitol hill. they are hopeful. having said all of that, dana was talking about income verification, that one bullet point in this senate plan taking shape. i have talked to some officials at the white house this they do believe that is really no big deal. that is not a major concession from the president. essentially this is going to be okay with president obama if and when this lands on his desk. and that is very interesting, wolf, because keep in mind throughout this entire ordeal, the president has said over and over again, we've heard jay carney say it over and over again in the briefing room, the president is not going to trade concessions for reopening the government or trade concessions on obama care, importantly, for a raise in the nation's debt ceiling. and basically, wolf, if everything that dan nan bash is

talking about comes to fruition and this is passed out of the congress and brought over to the white house later today for the president's signature, he will have accomplished something that he set out at the very beginning of all of this. why did the president set out on this mission from the get-go? a lot of this goes back to 2011 during that debt ceiling fight, the white house gave up a lot. they gave up sequestration in the form of that budget control act. this white house has never liked sequestration. from that point forward, you get the sense from this white house that the president hated that deal. he did not want to go through that again. they say historically speaking, they want to the set a precedent. they don't think future presidents should have to deal with this when the debt ceiling comes up, the nation has to be on the verge of default. it would be very interesting, i think, in the coming days if and when the president has a news conference to ask him if he thinks that the law should be changed governing the debt ceiling. my sense is that they would like to see that changed because they don't want to come -- they don't want to be at this point on

february 7th. they don't want to be at this point again. at this stage, there's really nothing preventing that from happening. they may get out of this jam this time around but there's nothing preventing this from happening next time around, wolf. >> it seems to me the only real concessions, jim, that the president made in this entire negotiating process over the past 15, 16 days of this government shutdown and earlier leading up to the shutdown, he would have wanted clean bills to extend the nation's -- the debt ceiling for at least a year, if not longer the end of 2014. >> that's right. >> also he wanted the government shutdown, he wanted a one-year fiscal funding bill to keep the government open at least for a year. now that he's had to accept a much shorter time line in both of these areas, he's going to get, for all practical purposes, clean bills but only to keep the government funded what, until january 15th and keep the nation's fiscal situation clean, if you will, the debt ceiling until february 7th.

so these are concessions on the president's part. >> that's absolutely right, wolf i think the strategic minds inside the white house would have loved a debt ceiling increase for another year. that would have brought us to october, mid-october of 2014. why? because the midterm elections would only be two weeks away. they sort of were wondering here at the white house why republicans did not take a debt ceiling increase that took them past the midterms. so they didn't wind up in the situation all over again right before the midterm elections because theoretically speaking and you've heard this from some house republicans they have said well, this is happening now in 2013. it's not really happening in 2014. and the election is next year. the thinking being that well, people will have forgotten about all of this by the time next year comes around. having said all of that, if and when we get out of this mess today, there's nothing -- there's nothing that guarantees that this doesn't happen all over again in january or february. the pde