tv Anderson Cooper Special Report CNN October 20, 2013 2:00am-3:01am PDT
>> in a way it's fair. >> it's fair? >> a good movie. >> coppola, he didn't [ muted ] it up? >> no. hello, everyone, tonight, a cnn special, "making the case." we break them down case by case. we start with breaking news tonight. we learned that two convicted murderers on the run have been captured. they were serving life sentences in florida but just walked out of prison. we will go to florida with breaking news on their capture. and a young woman's lifeless body is found in the bathroom. her husband is on trial accused of drugging and drowning her so he could be with his mistress.
he says he just couldn't save her. two young women say they were raped. a case that has torn their town apart. and some say the suspect won't be tried. heart break after a bullied young girl takes her own life. you won't believe what some kids were writing online even after her death. as i said we will begin with breaking news. the manhunt for two convicted killers mistakenly released from prison is over. they were captured together at a west florida motel. we are live from near the prison where they were released a few days ago. what can you tell us about their capture? >> reporter: their capture happened just a short time ago at 6:40 eastern just a few miles away from where we are in panama city beach, florida.
they were in a motel together. there was speculation they might have forged these documents together. we didn't know the extent of their relationship. the common denominator is they were both housed here. one of the suspects got out on september 27th. he was released using fraudulent documents. the other suspect, charles walker, released on october 8th. they have been on the run since. but for all intents and purposes they were living very normal lives after they got out. we heard a press conference from the families of both of those suspects pleading with joseph jenkins and charles walker to turn themselves in. hours later the arrests happened a short time after the press conference where the mother of charles walker begged her son to turn himself in. and we heard from the father figure of joseph jenkins who
made a plea to his son. but the irony in all of this is the finger pointing by the agencies that were involved in this mistake. the florida department of corrections pushed forward this order for their early release. they had forged documents. they pushed it back on the court. they didn't have any legal stature on this order. but no one wanted to take responsibility for the mistake. and there is still at this time no clear answers as to how this happened. but the arrest did happen a short time ago, involved the florida department of law enforcement as well as u.s. marshals and it is important to reiterate there was no incident during this arrest. >> nick, thank you very much for updating that breaking news. i want to bring in our legal panel here. they will be with us this entire hour.
former federal prosecutor sunny hostin and criminal defense turn danny cevallos and mark geragos joins us from vancouver. it's a reunion, so to speak. >> it is kind of a reunion turn. >> they were -- talking about how they did it, officials in florida were under tremendous pressure to capture these men, correct? >> they sure were. one was released september 27th and one was released october 8th. they weren't sure if this was done together or separately. this is bungling i haven't seen before. it is keystone cops bungling. the motion was filed by prosecutors to reduce sentences. that doesn't happen. >> let me explain what happened here.
get into the my -- minutia. there were bogus signatures of attorneys and had the seal of the orange county clerk of courts office. someone worked very hard to make these documents look real but no agency is taking responsibility. who should have caught this, danny? >> it's not a question of who should have caught this. the system itself is disorganized begin with. i have had clients released early. i'm sure mark has had similar things happen. the people calculating the time served are not paying as much attention as the inmates are to how long they've been there. it's a complex system. i was saying earlier that you can find these orders online, judges post their orders on the court's website. you can find -- that signature,
i found that on the ninth circuit's website two hours ago with four clicks. >> and belvin says his signature is easy to copy. >> i cropped it on a pdf and put it on a document. >> before someone gets released there is a series of checks and balances. the clerk's office has to check it -- >> florida is a strange place. >> the clerk's office has to check it and the judge's chambers are called. the u.s. attorney's office is called. >> that's a good point. mark, listen, someone in social media said, don, any time you get documents like this, it should be originals with a raised seal and original copies, original signatures. >> it shows you in this internet age how easy is it to forge documents.
the most stunning thing about all of this is these were guys who had life sentences. these were not someone who was sentenced to 180 days and released after ten days. these were people who not even eligible under a prima facie basis for parole. and you would think that someone at least would have been able to check and they would check and i love the fact that they are each pointing at each other and the court clerk is pointing their finger at them. wherever one of these things happens it's what i call the newspaper test. no one wants to be the one reading about in the paper that sees they were responsible for someone being released. >> mark o'mara, the famous defending -- for defending george zimmerman -- forgeries
like this could have been going on for years. ponder that. >> that's right. >> before we get to that, one young man watched his father die at the hands of one of those convicts. >> my life would have been different if i wouldn't have saw it but i saw it. >> we'll hear from the families of the men that these men killed next. kswagen "sign then drive" sales event is back. which means it's never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j.d. power's most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. and right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on any new 2014 volkswagen. hurry, this offer ends october 31st. for details, visit vwdealer.com today.
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welcome back, everyone, to our cnn special, "making the case" convicted killers joseph jenkins and charles walker have been captured. the families of the men they killed feared for their lives. >> reporter: joseph jenkins and charles walk are convicted killers. both walked out the front door of a prison in florida's franklin county. one victim's family is both angry and unnerved. >> now to know he's free on the streets is frightening. >> now, a convicted murderer is on the street again. for what? to get out and kill again? >> reporter: it set off a statewide manhunt. >> they are dangerous. they demonstrated the propensity for violence with firearms. we want them to be back in custody before there is harm to the community.
>> reporter: how could it happen? forged documents sent to the department of corrections ordered the releases and on them the signature of orange county judge belvin perry. perry sees how it is possible no one would question his signature and he is not entirely surprised. >> people, particularly people with criminal minds, come up with ingenious ways to beat the system. >> reporter: who filed the forged documents, we don't know. but what they did was this, they filed the fraudulent motion to correct what they called an illegal sentence. in the case of jenkins they signed that with the name of the assistant state attorney and filed a fake order with the forged signature from judge perry. >> they get my signature which is posted on every major website during this time period in the
case of the state of florida versus casey anthony. and voila. >> reporter: the order reads granting motion to correct illegal sentence. it reads in part, quote, the jury verdict found the defendant guilty of a lesser defense, third degree murder. there is an empty lot where in 1999 walker shot to death cedric slater a man he claimed was bullying and threatening him. in 1998, jenkins killed roscoe pugh in front of his family. his son saw it. >> his friend came in and he killed him in cold blood in front of his kids. >> reporter: so how did authorities find out the two men were on the loose?
from cedric slater's mother, the mother of one of the victims. she went to the state attorney's office wanting to know why her son's killer was free. the state attorney's office notified the florida department of law enforcement and the department of corrections. slater's mother showed cnn the letter she got from the department of corrections notifying her of the release of her son's killer. the assistant state's attorney said -- >> i did not sign that order of release and someone must be forging names. when he said that i almost went into shock. >> reporter: and both men within days of their release went to the orange county jail, filled out what is called a compliant registry form and were fingerprinted. two murders who scammed their way out of prison now following the letter of the law. >> we're going to get reaction
from the panel in a moment on that. let's get back to nick valencia on new details. what do you know, nick? >> reporter: i just got off the phone with the u.s. marshals service in washington. they gave us details surrounding the arrests of charles walker and joseph jenkins. we learned that the u.s. marshals were the main force making this arrest the arrest was made at 6:20 this evening in panama city at that motel room. they said they received critical information that put both charles walker and joseph jenkins in panama city beach yesterday. they worked in conjunction with the bay county sheriff's office and the panama city police department to make the arrest. >> nick, thank you very much. we're going to get back to our cnn legal panel. mark geragos and danny cevallos
and sunny hostin are here. >> do you think they planned this together? >> i think that clearly it suggests they were in cahoots. i love the added fact that was just reported that they went there and were fingerprinted and complying with their parole registration, which is amazing to me. and somebody just tweeted and i have to agree, it is really an ingenious prison break when you think about the idea that somebody just puts all this paperwork together, then they fax it over or do whatever to the department of corrections and the department of corrections lets them out and they go about their business in terms of registering. i echo judge perry when he says the criminal mind is very ingenious. >> danny is shaking his head hike i agree.
listen, the big question to danny and sunny, do these victims families have any legal recourse? >> i don't think so. i mean, what do you think? what are the damages? maybe intentional infliction of emotional distress because they were freaked out. >> but they will never make that. they can't make that. >> i agree. >> never going to make it. at best it's negligent. the government is only sued when it says you can sue me and that's it. >> stand by, guys, sex, lies and a mistress named gypsy. [ female announcer ] we take away your stuffy nose. you keep the peace. we calm your congestion and pain. [ man ] thank you. thank you. [ female announcer ] you rally the team.
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welcome back, everyone, to our cnn special "making the case" it's not often you see a bathtub in a courtroom. but prosecutors wheeled one in to salt lake city into a court to prove a point. martin macneill is accused of killing his wife michelle, a mother of eight, to be with his mistress, gypsy. >> the court will call the matter -- >> the sensational murder trial of doctor and lawyer martin macneill began thursday in a provo, utah courtroom. >> he explained to a final witness that he can get away with things and stated that one
of the things he had gotten away with was killing his wife. that he was glad the bitch was dead. >> reporter: investigators cherry picked certain parts of martin's life that they perceived to be indicative of guilt. and as a result in their zeal to try to prove their perceptions, the investigators engaged in practices that were not aimed at finding the truth. >> reporter: macneill is accused of killing his wife michelle, a former putty pageant contestant. they lived what seemed to be a charmed life. yet their almost 30 year major came to a tragic end one evening in 2007.
>> michelle was found dead in their bathtub by their youngest daughter, aida who was six years old at the time. macneill is accused of killing may wife michelle to be with his mistress, gypsy. she had a facelift that prosecutors say he forced her to have. medical examiners found a powerful mix of drugs including valium, percocet and ambien in her system. >> we are aware of the challenges that we face in this case but we make no excuses. >> reporter: since her mysterious death, michelle's two oldest daughters have been showing support for their mother and accusing their father of the unthinkable. >> my mother is a just wonderful human being.
she deserves justice. she should never -- have trusted my father. >> reporter: among the state's star witnesses will be at least one of his daughters, part of the effort to send him away for life. prosecutors say macneill was carrying on an affair with gypsy willis who moved into the macneill home as a nanny after michelle's death. >> my mom deserves justice. m father orchestrated this whole plan on how to murder my mother. >> reporter: in a pre-trial ruling, the judge determined the jurors will not be allowed to hear what michelle allegedly told to one of her daughters that, quote, if anything happens to me, make sure it wasn't your dad. macneill his pleaded not guilty. he insists that his wife's death was an accident and that he was at work the morning she died.
>> the prosecution has continued to cling to its faulty belief, despite evidence in the case, which shows that michelle macneill died of natural causes. >> this case is a puzzle with many pieces. pieces that are required to show you a complete picture of what happened to michelle macneill on april 11 of 2007. >> reporter: jean casarez, cnn. >> dennis, this is for you, we could hear martin macneill just losing it and screaming and then hanging up. let's play it again.
>> there was no water in the bathtub and michelle's hair is not wet. >> dr. drew pointed out that medical professionals are trained not to hit the panic button. they don't have a panic button the way the rest of us do. i think that is interesting. at the same time we get in dangerous ground when we talk about how i would act during a 911 call. everybody reacts differently in times of emergency and god willing you don't have to go through it to know how you would behave on a 911 call. but this case is heavy on suspicious behavior by this doctor but light on the science. that's the prosecution's biggest problem. >> you're right about that. and the way that news people handle it as well.
my friend is an e.r. doctor and once he actually had a reaction and he was like i want you to go do this and i would be like what do i do? you're right about that. mark geragos, macneill's two oldest doctor say that he insisted that his mom get the facelift. but when she was found dead, neighbors say he was saying, well, why would you do this because of all your stupid surgery? isn't he trying to cover his own tracks? >> well, look, danny is so right. in cases like this, one of the reasons they gain the traction they gain in the media is because, i mean here you have a mistress named gypsy and the daughters turning on the father. it's the stuff of greek tragedies. and you have little evidence but character assassination and that
appeals to people. and whether someone acted right on the 911 call. can you imagine if he had a flat affect people would be second guessing him and saying he doesn't sound emotional or concerned. so i mean, those kinds of things to me are sensational. they aren't really evidence. i think the devastating thing for the defense they really have to kind of handle and somehow mute is the fact that the daughters are there in court thinking that their father is a murderer. that is -- if you're the defense lawyer, to me that is the single worst fact i have to deal with. that's the perception that those jurors are going to have. those jurors are going to be very swayed by that even if they are not supposed to be. >> someone's over here being animated. >> i never agree with these guys, but i agree with them this time. and i think it's perhaps because i'm married to a doctor.
and the science doesn't make sense. if my husband wants to take me out he could do it in a surreptitious way. why would he do it this way. >> and he would never force you to have a facelift. >> no, he would not. >> and i mean why is he going to go through all this extra effort? it is ludicrous when you think about it. i'm going to give her drugs and have her drown in the bathtub. >> stand by. when "making the case" returns, a 12-year-old girl jumps to her death saying she can't take it any more. and we have a third arrest to tell you about. male announcer ]r favorite food starts a fight, fight back fast with tums. heartburn relief that neutralizes acid on contact and goes to work in seconds. ♪ tum, tum tum tum tums!
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just days after two young girls were arrested for bullying a 12-year-old girl who took her own life now the mother of one of the suspect under arrest for child abuse. >> reporter: a month after 12-year-old rebecca sedwick jumped to her death, police have arrested two juveniles who they say bullied her online.
one is accused of bragging about it. >> guadalupe shaw had no emotion at all upon her arrest. >> reporter: 14-year-old guadalupe shaw and 12-year-old caitlin roman have been arrested and charged with aggravated stalking. caitlin's father said there are two sides to every story. the family hasn't responded to cnn's requests for comment. guadalupe's parents spoke with chris cuomo on cnn "news day". >> do you think she bullied this girl, rebecca? >> no. she didn't. >> my daughter's not that type of girl to do something like that. >> they're just in denial. this bullying has gone on since last november both in person at school and over the cyberworld. we have legions of evidence and witnesses.
>> reporter: evidence police say that came from the laptops and cell phones of a total of 15 girls at crystal lake middle school who wrote messages like, nobody cares about you. i hate you. you seriously deserve to die. >> justice is finally being served. >> reporter: police arrested guadalupe and caitlin after rebecca's mother saw this message on guadalupe's facebook page. yes, i know i bullied rebecca and she killed he's. but i don't care. >> i took her to my room. that's what we have been doing. we take the computer to the room. the only time she could have used to send this message is my cell phone. and my cell phone is always with me. >> reporter: rebecca's family said that the bullying happened on several sites. >> you don't know about what your daughter's activity was on these sites.
>> i never come across those websites that they're say might daughter was on because the only one that she had was facebook. >> to our knowledge. >> this is our family occasion. >> rebecca's mother tried to stop the bullying but deactivating her facebook account and moving her to another school. >> she stopped telling me about it in june. >> reporter: police say the night before rebecca killed herself she messaged a boy she met online. i'm jumping. i can't take it any more. the trigger that led to the suicide? >> it was over a boy that she was dating as only 11-years-old can date. one of her friends were sending her inappropriate messages and said she didn't want to be friends with her any more and they started calling her a goody two shoes because she didn't
agree with what was being said. >> reporter: this is the former boyfriend. he is 14. >> it shocked me. it made me mad. >> my little girl lost her life because she felt she was worthless. >> she was beautiful, smart, funny. >> she wanted to go into the air force and she wanted to be an astronaut. >> reporter: instead she has a facebook memorial page that reads stop bullying, no one deserves to feel worthless. rosa flores, cnn, reporting. >> i want to bring back our panel, sunny hostin, danny cevallos, and mark geragos joins us live from vancouver. he's so fancy. these two girls are charged with aggravated stalking. is that the strongest charge for a case like this? >> when it comes to enter bullying, the law cannot keep
pace with technology. when you think of stalking or harassment you think of the guy in the hedges waiting with binoculars. but the law never envisioned cyberstalking or cyberbullying. the law cannot keep up with the technologies. >> it needs to be brought into the present. >> there's the other part too. at what point -- if you are going to judge this as speech you have to judge it by its content objectively. you cannot judge it by the affect on the hearer. you can't say this is a crime because someone was upset. we have to be careful we don't criminalize. and if you apply these laws broadly you will be locking up a lot of kids in the juvenile system. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. i hear this all the time about language on the internet. if we can on the internet, on
facebook and twitter if you can stop certain types of photographs and pictures and content from being put on it because it is offensive then why can't you do the same with language? >> i think you can. i think you can. we have come a long way. >> there is this thing called the first amendment. >> yeah, but, mark, we have come a long way. there are a lot of cyberbullying statutes in a bunch of states. but what would stop this is prosecute the parents. we prosecute parents all the time. if kids are drinking in their homes and they provided alcohol. we prosecute the parents. if you are providing your kids with a phone -- >> look at the language. >> or providing a computer and not monitoring on my watch you are being prosecuted and that's where the law needs to go. >> you're going to tell me i mean -- look, i've been through raising teenaged girls. nothing is more vicious, frankly, than teenaged girls. they are mean, mean, in certain areas.
at certain times they gang up on each other. that's part of what goes through girls getting raised and raising girls. but the language here was i hate you you seriously deserve to die. >> why don't you kill yourself. >> but why don't you go kill yourself? i'm not saying that's good. would i want that to happen to my kids? absolutely not. but this is what kids do. >> no, they don't do that. >> no, no, no! >> it's unacceptable. you can't criminalize everything. >> i can't agree with that. >> there is a different -- >> that's hate speech. >> i hate you, you should kill yourself that is hate speech. >> i hate you, you should go kill yourself is not a crime. >> we are going to try to -- it should be. >> meanness unfortunately is part of the human concern. it is arrogant of us to think we can outlaw the cruelty that is
part of the human condition. >> stand by. we have a lot more time to talk about it but not right now. i promise you. when "making the case" returns a young man is accused of race. some believe is it a case that will never go to court. which means it's never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j.d. power's most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. and right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on any new 2014 volkswagen. hurry, this offer ends october 31st. for details, visit vwdealer.com today. it's not a candy bar. 130 calories 7 grams of protein the fiber one caramel nut protein bar.
two teenaged girls have a sleepover. they have a couple of drinks and call some boys and decide to sneak out. according to the girls they were later sexually assaulted. one of the suspects a former high school football star. the case would divide a town and even sent one teen's family packing after numerous threats. >> reporter: behind the small town veneer of maryville, missouri you find a community struggling with a big problem, a chasm caused by allegations of sexual assault that date back nearly two years the word of two teenaged girls against three boys, one of them a high school football player from a prominent political family. daisy coleman was just 14 years old when she believes she was raped. >> i did blame myself and felt guilty for what happened to my
friend also. i felt like she was my little sister at the time and i blamed myself for everything that happened that night. >> reporter: daisy was at home with her 13-year-old friend paige for a sleepover to watch scary movies. but she admits. >> that night we started drinking some and i started texting a boy on the football team, matt and he agreed to pick me up at my house. so me and paige snuck out of my window around 1:00 a.m. >> it didn't seem like a situation where kids drank too much and got carried away. they came with a plan. they picked the girls up from the house and drove them three miles to their house. they accomplished a lot of damage in less than an hour and had them back in my yard in 55 minutes. >> reporter: the sheriff department records show that matthew barnett, who was 17 at the time, and his 15-year-old
friend admitted to having sex with the girls but both claim it was consensual. a third boy captured it on video. robin says that her daughter is still recovering. paige told gary tuchman she has flashbacks. >> i had started having a lot of night terrors, nightmares. >> reporter: melinda found daisy unconscious in the front yard. she saw signs of sexual abuse on her daughter's body. she says that paige was back in the bedroom asleep but seemed confused and out of it. melinda called police. >> from the beginning of this case, even the suspects in this case were forthright and forth coming with their involvement and participation in everything that went on, which is why that we were within four hours of receiving the call, able to have people in jail with arrest
warrants issued and meaning that the charges had been filed. >> reporter: the sheriff darren white has no doubt that both girl were sexually assaulted but in the weeks to come this case took turns that left law enforcement confused. >> the only stories that have been consistent are the victims in this case. >> reporter: melinda coleman says that times became more challenging after the incident. she and her daughter moved away from maryville after it happened. but before they could sell their home they returned here to find it burned to the ground. to this day, fire officials are unsure of the cause. both families say their girls were taunted and ridiculed at school, daisy admitting she attempted suicide. >> there is one charge remaining, that is the misdemeanor child endangerment charge. they dropped everything else in two weeks and never told us anything.
>> reporter: the sheriff's department says that the 15-year-old accused of sexually assaulting paige was dealt with by juvenile authorities but 17-year-old barnett and the teen who took video saw their charges dropped. daisy's mother believes that matthew got special treatment because of his last name. his grandfather, a former state respective. >> i knew because as long as i have been in politics and law enforcement i knew if it was drug in very long i would be pulled into it. so i made it a point not to talk to the prosecuting attorney or the sheriff or any of the witnesses directly or indirectly. and i stuck to that. >> the only reason the prosecutor didn't move forward with this case is because he didn't have any victims. the victims chose not to be involved in this case. >> reporter: prosecutor robert rice tells me it wasn't until he saw the girls interviewed on cnn he realized they wanted to pursue the case. >> the witnesses never told me
or contacted me to tell me they changed their mind after the moment they invoked their fifth amendment right in a deposition under oath. >> you know, they say that they didn't do that, though. >> i understand what they say. and we have a deposition under oath. >> reporter: following the interview, rice announced he would ask for a special prosecutor to come in and review the case and determine whether charges should be refiled. >> i was more than excited. i felt i would be able to work with someone who was excited about this case and willing to put forth a real effort. >> reporter: so now this family has new hope that the special prosecutor will review the facts and determine whether what happened here will finally put this case in court. george howell, cnn, maryville, missouri. >> our cnn legal panel will weigh in on the nightmare in maryville when "making the case" returns. that's just ahead.
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do you think that the special prosecutor will bring charges? >> they have a futural problem here. the girls now deny that they testified under oath invoking the fifth amendment. we have been talking about phony documents. even it's a phony deposition or they committed perjury. if they aren't cooperating how is somebody supposed to prosecute this case? >> danny is like bingo. do you agree? >> when you look at the facts the sheriff's department made an arrest within nine hours. they were serious about the case when they arrested the suspect and the case only fell apart once it got the prosecutor and the sheriff agrees that the case shouldn't have been prosecuted. if they took the fifth amendment and are not going to testify then the prosecution is going to have a huge problem.
>> the prosecutor said daisy and her mom were uncooperative. they said they were all willing to testify. >> i have to tell you, first of all -- i used to try child sex crimes. bottom line, victims don't want to cooperate for many different reasons. >> it's common. >> they are terrified and traumatized. they allegedly said they wanted to plead the fifth was during a defense deposition. defense council was cross examining this young girl. you know rape victims have a lot of difficulty talking about what happened to them. >> sunny, don't mislead people. a defense deposition -- >> i'm not. >> a defense deposition does not have a separate oath. it's an oath where you can commit perjury. it doesn't matter if it was the prosecute or the defense. >> however, this was during the defense deposition. defense deposition.
they didn't necessarily say to the prosecution i don't want to cooperate. >> here's -- sunny is making my point for me. she prosecuted juvenile sex crimes. the reality is these people who do that work it is the most emotionally draining work. they are not in the business of bringing a case and then dropping it because of a subtle conspiracy because the kid is on a football team. >> i disagree with that. this would be small town -- >> they are not going to -- >> it has been reported that -- >> the way it's been portrayed i don't buy that for a second. >> daisy coleman had been drinking the night of the alleged rape and snuck out of the house. she texted she had been drinking and arrived and drank more but doesn't remember anything after that was her testimony. how difficult will it be to prosecute this case?
>> there are other facts. there were allegedly videos taken and other witnesses there. >> a rape kit. >> sunny brought this up -- >> that proves sex. missouri's law is a little bit unusual. this will not be a statutory rape case only a forcible rape case. there is evidence of sex but they have to prove lack of consent. >> sunny? >> i don't know if a girl is inebriated i don't think it's that difficult to prove lack of consent. i can tell you, don, i don't think this is the last we have heard about this case. what i like about this case is that social media has put this town on full blast. and the message is you can't hide any more. these sex crimes have to be prosecuted. >> wow. >> criminal defense attorney, danny cevallos, sunny hostin, mark geragos thank you for your incite.
ted cruz and john mccain are interviewed in state of the union on sunday morning. i'm don lemon, thanks for watching. good night, everybody. i told them, they got them. >> these two convicted killers are back behind bars. the question this morning, how did they manage to pull off their escape, and could it happen again? his critics call him a laughingstock and supporters call him a trail blazer. >> i don't work for the party bosses in wash and i work for the people of texas and fight for them. >> ted cruz talks about his fights and his