tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN November 1, 2013 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
top of the hour. it might be delayed by a few minutes. we want to you watch because we presumably will be getting a lot more information. thank you for joining us on this special edition of "crossfire." i'm wolf blitzer in washington. erin burnett "outfront" begins right now. we begin with the breaking news murder at l.a.x. we're expecting an update any minute now. we're watching the microphones. there are so many unanswered questions about the horrific act of violence today which certainly, safe to say, feels like an act of domestic terrorism. we have some dramatic new video that shows the chaos and pandemonium that happened during the shooting. this is video that was obtained by the webb tmz at l.a.x. right
after the first shots were fired. >> on the floor! on the floor! come on, you guys. [ bleep ] this is crazy, dog! >> stress, fear, but remarkably orderly for all of that. the deadly shooting took place in one of the busiest airports in the united states. one tsa officer shot to death. the first ever to be killed in the line of duty. three others wounded. hundreds of passengers were single running in a state of panic. >> there was a guy downstairs,
started shooting. one guy fell down. panic erupted and he was setting up through security shack. >> my husband just grab me and put me on the floor. i was really scared and crying. and i was panicked. >> the only thing could i do was keep my eyes down the hallway was just keep calm. everybody was just going crazy. >> here's how the scene unfolded this morning. >> 9:20 this morning. an individual came in to terminal three of this airport. pulled an assault rifle out of a bag and began to open fire in the terminal. he proceeded up into the screening area where tsa screeners are and continued shooting and went past the screeners, back into the airport itself. >> the gunman is identified as
23-year-old paul anthony ciancia. shot three time in the chest by police and in critical condition. these images were taken by passengers in the airport. right here you can see a gun at the foot of that law enforcement officer. that's where police confronted the shooter. you can see his weapon on the floor. an assault rifle. we'll have more on that in a moment of as this was unfolding, people wriding who everywhere. you can see this is a bathroom which was at that point jam packed. and the security check point became completely abandoned. people left everything. left their luggage and ran. we have the latest details from our reportes. experts covering this from all the angles. there are so many crucial questions. i want to begin with casey wian. casey, what are police telling you right now as we await this live press conference from the fbi in. >> reporter: the fbi has identified the shooter has paul
anthony ciancia. 23 years old. they are not speculating on any potential motive themselves do say that they believe he acted alone. they describe the situation inside l.a.x. right now as static, meaning no one inside the airport is in any kind of danger. law enforcement sources say witnesses describe him acting people if they were tsa. and if they answered no, he would move. on so okayly that's one area that law enforcement will be looking into and programs we may hear more about that from the fbi at a news conference when it begins in a moment. >> yes. and we do have that press conference, casey, starting right now. we'll go to that. as fbi officials are walking up to the cameras. the representative, special agent in charge is david bowdich. let's listen. >> a few minutes ago i got off the phone with the president of the united states, he called to press his sympathies for what
happened here in los angeles earlier today, to express his support, the family of the fallen, and to ensure that anything we need, we will get from the federal government. he also informed me that tsa administrator tom will be coming out here tomorrow to the scene. first our thoughts and prayers are 28 the families, loved ones, and the colleagues of the fallen. an attack like this tests our resolve. it asks who we are and how we respond to moments like this. we light a fire and in our recovery. it is a tremendous testament that today, a day that started with horrific attacks, is now ending with los angeles international airport beginning to reopen. this morning a gunman opened fire in l. xarks's terminal three, killing a tsa agent. the first to die in the line of duty. and shooting two other people at least one of which was a tsa
agent. additional individuals have had minor injuries and have been treated. the airport police officers engaged the suspect, opened fire, wounded him, and took him into custody. the suspect has been identified as paul anthony ciancia. 23, a resident of los angeles. right now l.a.x. terminals with the exception of number three are reopening fast fast as logistically possible. travelers should expect delays and should check with their airlines for flight information. our first priority is safety. there is tremendous pressure for the traveling public to get on their planes, to feel that they are secure. we want them to be safe first and foremost. so every part of this airport must be cleared before terminals can reopen. freeways and surface streets are now open. the area around l.a.x. should be avoided unless you have clear information on your flight and
need to be in the area. we have a hotline for travelers needing a hole near l.a.x. they should call 1-888-831-7176. one of the lessons of 9/11 was the need to work seamlessly across jurisdictions. ironically we had the fbi director here earlier today. one of the things he expressed was how well this region works together before we knew this incident was going on happen. i personally witnessed as mayor of the city is seamlessness between agencies, between different levels of government, and i want to thank each of the men and women across the federal, state and local agencies that today have done incredible work. i want to commend those departments for their coordinated response and here again from a number of speakers, one last thing i want to thank the volunteers, the staff, the los angeles airports, the red cross, our civilian teams that fanned out to get people into hotels or pass out water. to help feed some of the
stranded and to ensure traffic was flowing. this was a team effort. i would like to, for the update on the incident itself and some of the criminal aspect, ask again special agent in charge to come forward and say a few words. >> thank you, mr. mayor. thank you, chief beck, thank you, chief gannon. i would like to thank the media for your patience. this is a very large scale investigation. the crime scene is extensive. we are currently using different resources from lapd and los angeles airport, world airport police. today we are going to confirm the identity of the subject. it is paul anthony ciancia. c-i-a-n-c-i-a. he is 23 years old. he is a u.s. citizen. he is formerly a resident of new
jersey. we are currently investigating his background and more about him. i'm not going on provide too many updates on that at this point. the decedent's identity is not going to be confirmed out of respect for the families. the families are going through a very difficult time today but we are going to confirm that it was a tsa employee who was actually the decedent in this case. there is at least one other tsa employee who was wound by gunshot. there are additional injuries, some of which seem to be potential evasion injuries, where they may have injured themselves trying to get away. at this point, we have one terminal shut down and we will have it shut down for a while while we continue the investigation. forensics team are in there from the fbi as well as the lapd. their work is long and methodical and they will take their time on this to be
complete in their investigation. we do have a up the line. i would like to pass out. that an fbi tip line. the number is 1-888-226-8443. if you have, i would seek the public's assistance. if they have information which would be beneficial to this investigation and we ask that they please keep it to that. we would like to know about it'll we do have that line staffed right now. it is available and we are ready to run those leads. additional information, i can you want all the facts. we cannot provide those to you at this point. i see some of you smiling. we're not going to give -- >> we just lost the signal but you were listening to the fbi downer agent in charge at los angeles airport. david bowdich. >> the operations of this
airport. what is moving forward as we speak. and some of the great work they did today. >> thank you, mr. mayor. between 9:30 this morning and approximately 3:00 p.m. this afternoon, there were 746 flights that were affected. friction of those were diverted to other local airports. the rest were either held on the ground here at l.a.x. or at their originating airport. we are glad to report that terminals one and two are now in the process of being repopulated. employees first. tsa employees, airline, and concession area employees in place, and then passengers will be allowed back into those terminals. terminal three and parking structures three will remain closed for the time being. any folks who have flights tomorrow with the airlines that
typically operate out of terminal three should contact the airline for specific information. we expect to be operating those flights but probably through a busing procedure at the remote gates. we will also on the l.a.x. twitter feed be providing as much information as he we understand what the operational details will be. the faa national ground stop on arrivals for l.a.x. is scheduled to be lifted at 4:00 p.m. today. lastly, i just want to tell the public and the travelers and all of those who are intending to meet or bid those travelers that do, thank you for your patience. this has been a trying day for everyone i know. for those awaiting arrival passengers, we'll be busing those passengers to lot c at 98th and sepulveda. so within the next two hours,
the arriving passengers should be there for pick-up. i want to reiterate the hotel hot lane that is being provided by l.a. tourism and convention board. 1-888-831-7176. passengers stranded at l.a.x. certainly are encouraged to call that hotline for aaccommodations. thank you. thank you. >> we're going to keep monitoring this press conference as it continues on. we speck to hear from the lapd, from fire department officials. as we get more information, we'll bring that to you. the key headline, of course confirming the identity of the 23-year-old man, paul ciancia is his name. resident of the los angeles area who was responsible for shooting and killing the first tsa officer to ever be killed in the line of duty. and also as you heard the fbi counter terrorism agent in charge indicate, there was another tsa officer still
injured. i want to bring in todd freedman who is joining me on the phone from the airport. he was standing 25 feet away from the gunman. todd, thank you for taking the time i know you're still at the airport but let me start by asking you, just feet away this morning when this happened. what did you see? >> i'll try to be quick. we were literally walking in. i was handing my i.d. over. we heard five loud shots right behind us. we all dove behind the ticketing conveyor belts. we heard more shots. we all ran into a nearby office. we locked ourselves in. closed out the lights. watched, waited for about 20 minutes until the police came and told us it was safe to go outside. we had been in the international terminal and we got released. >> how many shots total did you hear? i know you mentioned at first you heard five or six. how many in total? >> maybe 12 to 20, maybe 15.
>> 12 to 15 or 20. >> and just how afraid were you and others? this is not a situation you would ever have anticipated happening. you don't know how you'll react until it happens to you. what was your reaction? >> we were freaked out. more like in shock and more in survival mode at that point in time. maybe when we had time to reflect we'll be a little more afraid. it was a pretty scary situation. kind of surreal. >> as you mentioned, you've been there forle hours. i know you were going away for the weekend. and we're looking now at a live picture -- i don't know. 50 people? you're looking at overpasses that would be full of cars with people walking. did you mention they're just now allowing you to leave the airport? >> caller: yeah. just now allowing us to leave. they're still interviewing people who were actual eyewitnesses to the incident. we're trying to get out of here and go home. >> i hope that you do and thank you for taking the time to be
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new details on the shooter who attacked l.a.x. airport today. why did he do this? deb has been working her sources and what do you know so far about the suspect? we know a name. we know an age but you know a lot more. >> what we know is that law enforcement looking at his facebook page to see if there is
any indication as to motive. law enforcement officials take very seriously comments that he apparently made to several people. several passengers who were on their way to their planes. as he was walking down the in terms natural, he allegedly asked them, hey returning tsa? when they responded to he kept on walking. also, we are learning through cnn's evan perez, that he had some sort of material or information on him that suggests he was specifically targeting both tsa but possibly also police officers. right now they're looking at the note that he was carrying. it is that bag that he had his concealed assault rifle in when he walked into the airport, went straight to the tsa security check point and then opened fire, killing one of the agents. from there we know he ran down the terminal to the gates and that is when he himself was shot three times, or multiple times in the chest by officers from lapd and l.a.x.
the airport police there. we tried to find out his condition but so far nobody is talking on what his status at all. though he was taken to a local hospital. >> and of course, we just had one eyewitness. that's one person's memory. saying 12 to 15 or 20 shots. we don't know how that broke down with the suspect versus law enforcement. to your point, as has been reported, he may have had documents on him. what do you know about his weapon? >> it was an assault rifle. we know he had three magazines. one magazine he had in the actual firearm. interestingly he also had two other magazines as well. this ham in a very short amount of time. so by the time he started running through the terminal down toward the gates, it does seem to suggest is that he was not able to reload. not sure how many bullets he himself fired but because there were two unused magazines, we know that it does not appear that he had time to reload before he himself was shot. >> thank you very much.
crucial questions and a lot of questions about, as we get more specifics, we'll share them with you about that weapon and what we know about it. whether it was legal. authorities believe the gunman was targeting perhaps police and certainly tsa officers. jim, we've been talking through the day, the tsa is the front line and they are not allowed to carry women's. it seems they were completely defenseless. were they prepared for anything like this? >> this is one of the most protected airports in the world. partly because it has been a target of terror threats before. there was a threat in 2002 at the el al desk. more than 1100 airport police. many of whom are armed. the tsa officers as you say are not armed. .to the head of the union today and he said that's by choice them prefer to leave the shooting to the office here's are trained for the shooting. that's the l.a. airport police.
and there are other armed officers patrolling airports. air marshals that as we know, often are on flights but also in the airports. the department of homeland security has armed agents in the airport. so up to this point, the tsa hasn't seen the need and hasn't even requested to arm its own agents. i was watching twitter earlier and i was starting to get twitter messages back from some tsa agents out there who disagree with the position saying they feel like, quote, one of them quoted and said they feel like unarticle sitting ducks and they would like to be armed. there is some disagreement there. as you mentioned, they are the front line. it is a fair question as to whether some of them at least might need arms going forward. >> thank you very much. i want to bring in lou. he provides security for major events including the academy awards and the golden globes and also a former law enforcement officer. jim is talking about this crucial issue now front and center as we talk about this horrible tragedy today. this act of domestic terrorism. it seems very fair to
characterize it the that way. this tsa officers have guns? >> absolutely. they're at a very vital point of airport security. they should be properly trained and be armed at that point so they're not somewhat sitting ducks there. the whole notion or concept that you're screening for weapons and you can encounter one by someone of ill intent and not be able to respond is ludicrous. it is unfortunately the climate that prevails. >> the other thing that is interesting. as jim is reporting, this is one of the most fortified and defended airports in the united states because it is so big and has been the focus of terrorism before. when you think about it, you walk into the airport. l.a.x. or anything else. until you hit security, you can do anything. no one will do anything. you're halfway through the airport before you even hit that security point. so is security in the right place? should we move it to the front door? >> that's correct. there is an inherent flaw. .to this ten years ago. what i said is that you kiss
your loved ones goodbye at the sidewalk. buff enter the terminal they should be screening you for women's. why allow someone to traverse hundreds of feat of an air terminal that is densely populated with a target. the whole notion of the way we do this. unfortunately week a reactive culture. sometime you need an incident like this to revisit the proper way to secure a terminal. whenever you do it, it is in the outer most perimeter. why allow a problem in your house when you can prevent it from coming into your house? they're just not of that mindset yet. >> maybe this will change it. the true tragedy that would require how they do things. lou palumbo, thank you very much. still to come, more coverage of the shooting. how passengers at l.a.x. are coping with the deadly assault. i gotta go deposit a check, transfer some money. so it's your uncle's turn. what? wait, wait, wait...
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a massive ripple effect on air travolacross the country. you just heard the person in charge of the airport saying almost 800 flights delayed or canceled. that is just an i credible ripple effect. how do things look now? >> it is a real ripple effect. it will last for days. what we can tell but l.a.x. we're told that terminals one and two are reopening. terminal three may be closed indefinitely. right there you have a possible ripple effect with delays and cancellations and other sorts of disruptions.
probably the next couple of days. this is flight explorer.com's of all the flights going over the united states at any given moment. it is updated every few seconds. thousands of flights. what we're told by airfare watch dog.com themselves monitor all the cancellations, everything. with all the cancellations, hundreds just out of l.a.x., the delays and cancellations, you have the ripple effect. what they said is that other people flying from places like new york to l.a.x., boston to l.a.x., everywhere. those flights, he says, a lot of them will be diverted to major hubs like chicago, denver coming in here, dallas. they'll to have divert down here. a lot of those passengers will be stuck overnight. they have to book hotels. they may or may not be able to rebook their flights. a lot of these he says are coming from hong kong, asia, japan, the eastern asia and across the pacific and a lot of
them are going to have to divert as well so that will cause a disruption. a lot of the flights canceled were fulfill very hard to rebook on those flights. so again, just all the confusion with the cancellations, the diversions to these hubs. people staying in hotels, having to rebook flights. that's the ripple effect. when you get a look at all the air traffic that is affected throughout the united states, just by this one event. in these few seconds at l.a.x. it is a pretty massive effect. a huge disruption across the country. >> and brian just laying that out, when you think about it that way. you realize no matter where you were, this affected you. more than 60 million people go through l.a. every year. kyung lah is there with the latest will we've been talking to passengers through the day, hearing these individual stories. but it is incredible how big this is. >> reporter: certainly. and we actually just saw a small slice of it.
and if you had joined me about an hour ago, this would have been a very, very different tale that i was telling you. this area that i'm standing in, this looks fairly normal now, right? this was completely pakds with passengers. it was yellow tape. they were not being allowed in. just a short time ago, they dropped the tape. the police were allowing passengers to go into the airport and what we were hearing from, who i found quite interesting to talk to, are the passengers who were stuck on the tarmac in planes that were allowed to land after the shooting. they were stuck there five, six hours. they were incredibly frustrated. but they were also quite frightened. they were not getting a lot of information because it was still a developing investigation. so a lot of concern for passengers as they were leaving. they were also quite frustrated. but what's happening inside the airport, it is a mess. we saw a huge stream of people flood into the airport. they're all going to now try on work out their travel to try to
get to their destinations. certainly it will be a very long night out here. >> kyung lah, thank you very much. i want to bring in actor tim daly now. he was on the sitcom "wings. he was in the afrlt i have a picture that you took following the shooting that you put on twitter. so where were you and what exactly did you hear? >> i was in the first class lounge at virgin america. probably about 20 yards from where the shooting took place. one floor up. i had just come up from downstairs by the news stand, maybe 30 feet from where the shooter was killed, i guess. and i was standing, talking to people at the desk. there were these loud sounds. our reaction was, is that gun fire? about another 10 to 15 rounds later, it was obviously gunfire. so we stayed in there and the
police started banging on the door but we did not know it was the police. there were a few minutes of confusion and fear not knowing who was banging on the door. they were very smart asking the police to show their i.d.s. they came in. they were amped up, fully ready to find somebody in there but they were very professional and quickly realized that there was no criminal element in the lounge. so we were locked if there for about an hour. then finally led down right next to where the law enforcement people killed the shooter. by gate 35 in terminal three. >> all right. and i'm only going on correct knew case any viewers are joining us. the shooter is actually, our understanding is alive at this time. >> i'm not saying that to correct you. >> only for the viewers joining now, tim. let me ask you a question. when you say you heard shots, we're trying to understand how
many shots. we know tsa agents aren't allowed to carry guns but the shooter had an assault weapon and there were law enforcement who came in and shot him. do you have any recollection of how many shots you although i d count. there were quite a few shots. >> that sounds like -- sorry. go ahead. >> and they moved. because the lounge, as i said, on the second floor. and the first two or three shots were kind of like they were coming down the hallway into the wide open place where the waiting area is for the boarding gates. then there was a flurry of shots that took place where the boarding area is. that's where the majority of the shots that i heard were fired. >> all right. tim, thank you very much. we appreciate you taking the time. i know it has been an incredibly long and stressful day. thank you for talking to us. >> i want to bring in jeff beaty now.
former counter terrorism officer. he designed the guns used at the afrlt i believe you've dealt with go l.a.x. personally. let me ask you this question. we were talking about this earlier. when you look at where the line is, where you go through security. before that point there is no security at all, right? you can bring anything you want in. anybody can carry anything. and then theoretically you don't have anything. is that a problem in the set-up of the airports? >> you know, you're absolutely right. if you're worried about a threat getting into the airport, you said earlier, the security is halfway through the system. and so you've got the same people in front of the security check points as do you behind it. the only thing is behind it you have airplanes. so we're set up to protect airplanes, not people, for the whole time they're in the airport. so what we need to consider, when the administrator goes out, i'm sure he will be considering it. moving the security points as far forward as you can. to the curb or in some cases,
spot checks. then once you do that, three or four other quick things. you said something earlier about, right after the shooting started interesting security check got vacated. and al qaeda, sophisticated terrorists constantly pews tactic where the first person come in and destroys the wall or the entry point. then other people flow through and exploit the access they have to the protected space. we've got to do something about that. some of the things do you know is provide hard cover. there you have people that are out there behind plywood podiums. and not every case are there armed officers overwatching them. you need armed officers watching each check point. people need hard cover to get behind to save their own lives. >> what about what happened today? in this particular case, the shooter got through check point before being stopped by police. he was stopped at a gate, obviously so many they were affected. did the system work? because he was able to get to the gate or not? >> no, it didn't work.
and the element of the system that did not work was the concept of operation, the design. any time someone can shoot their way through a check point and get 100 feat down a concourse, i know tsa will tell you that's not the system working. so we've got some work to do. sadly that we lost somebody here. but let us learn from this and look at how we can improve the situation. how can we make sure this doesn't happen again and perhaps this will be the cause to make some necessary changes. >> it is amazing how you don't realize some things until something hams. then you rethink everything altogether. thank you very much. still to come. we're watching shocking revelations about the 2012 presidential election. we're going to be talking about, let's just say we'll talk about the relationship between these two and why barack obama and bill clinton just don't seem to like each other. and martin macneill. former doctor on trial for the
because she was so popular in the polls. this is a soon to be released book. that isn't the only clinton drama. it also talks about the long strained relationship between barack obama and bill clinton. the new york time obtained a copy and summarized it this way. when the two golfed together in september 2011, an effort aides hoped would bring them closer, they didn't even finish 18 holes. obama grimaced and applied, i like him in dose. the author's write. things clintons very well. and counsellor to president clinton when he was in the white house. and for the romney campaign in 2012, she was interviewed in the book. okay. great to have both of you with us. i have to say, in the age of twitter, i'm impressed these guys could have all this stuff and have it be new and hold it. so kudos.
the book also says, bill clinton referred to barack obama as luckier -- luckier than a dog with two of something i'm not going to say on national television. how strained is this relationship? >> i was wondering how you were going to do that. it is a family program. >> i speak southern. let me trans laxt president obama is indeed fortunate to have a comparatively hapless opponent, mr. romney. that's all that quote says. it is a compliment. i have to say -- >> that's impressive you public is that to a compliment. >> it says you're really lucky. any way. i'm a dog lover, a southerner, believe me that's a compliment. like the comment i like him in doses. as a former aide, these people, especially presidents, they ought to have at least a way to blow off some steam without leaking to it a book. i don't fault the reporters and i'm quite sure it is accurate.
these the best in the business. i'm not going to preten it didn't happen. i do trust them. they're good journalists. as an airkd bet alice agrees. we owe our client a higher standard of discussion than blabbing every frustrated or tired or angry or emotional remark that we hear when we work for them. don't you think? >> i agree completely. and loyalty goes a long way when you're in this business. it is a very small world. and you're going on continue to work for people. if you're going around telling deep dark secrets for your boss, an elected official, it will get around. i agree with you 100%. mark and john are tremendous journalists. they did good work finding this information and holding these deep zeerksecrets as long thaes. and he said pay attention to the nondenial denials. he's saying all this is true. if someone denies it, they're not really buying it.
there's truth to it. >> there is. when you talk about what president clinton said about president obama during the 2008 campaign, he will a radio show, so this was not even secret, right? i think they played the race card on me. and there was the time he was talking about president obama's fans in the iraq war. and he said give me a break. this is biggest fairytale i've ever seen. and then he turned he will became an advocate of president obama's policies. no question he help him during the 2012 election. then there were moments like this press conference. >> here's what i'll say. i've been keeping the first lady waiting for about a half an hour. i'm going to take off. >> i don't want to make her mad. >> you're in good hands. gibbs will call the last question. >> thank you. >> is this just a case of, you know, everybody, every president is used to being the top dog. it has to be for bill clinton to be there and, in that room and president obama wants to prove
i'm the top guy. it is not you anymore even though everybody really loves you. maybe over snowe that was a classic news conference. where the, president clinton came in and dominated the room and president obama was standing back saying i'm the president now. remembering from the democratic convention when bill clinton didn't understand what the red light blinking was. that's how it goes. i'm sure if you ask bill clinton how much he can take barack obama, he would probably say in doses as well. >> i'm sure he would. what about the romney campaign? the book obviously focuses on the romney campaign which as you just heard your colleague call hapless. the "washington post" scribble the hunt for him, goldfish. the names were offensive to some. the new jersey governor was called puffer fish. that he is pescado which i thought was dicey and
fishconsin. romney was bothered, according to the book about, i christie showing up late to things and also, to just his physical fitness. and they quote in the book, romn romney. watching a video of him without his suit jacket on. romney kakled to his aides, look at that. >> as we said, i think there is a lot in this book. here's the thing with the vp selection. this is something there is always talk about how the process goes through. one of the best kept secrets in presidential politics of who is being attacked by the other side. it is no secret mitt romney is very organized, very fit, very on time. but at the end of the day when it comes to chris christie, he is getting ready to be reelected by a land slide next tuesday. so there is something to be that for being fat and tardy. >> what about what chris
christie said about this in the book? i love it. >> anybody who wants to sell a book puts my name in it. that's fine. i have a great relationship with the romneys and the campaign. it's all just, you know, trying to make sure they sell as many books as possible. >> 200 love it. you have to love it. >> first off, if you want to sell books, put christie in there. he has an inflated evening officially put kardashian in there if you want to sell books. that's the example, alice talked about these nondenial denials. usually a straight talker saying the stuff in this is true. they're trying to sell books. well, duh! it sounds lick a confirmation to me if you decode the language. >> i give him credit for saying spell my name right. call me puffer fish if you want to. martin macneill is on trial
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drugs and drowning, that's how they say martin macneill's wife died and heart problems led to the death but witnesses put that theory to question. jean casarez is out front tonight. >> reporter: prosecutors say there is no question how michelle macneill died and it was at the hands of her husband martin. >> the result of drowning. >> it's your opinion beyond a reasonable doubt of drowning. >> it's my opinion within reasonable certainty and beyond. >> reporter: on the day of her death, dr. macneill called 911 after his young daughter ada found michelle in the tub. >> witness for the state. >> the state calls dr. herper. >> reporter: they say it's likely michelle suffered as she slowly drawn in a bathtub. >> the person both after a
period when dropped in the water, initially he doesn't want to enhail water, but then because he feels the need to breathe, eventually he's both inhaling water and swallowing water. >> reporter: prosecutors say martin macneill forced his wife to have cosmetic surgery using his medical expertise to play him with a mix on post surgery medication to drawn her. the defense says she had a long-term heart condition and that was the cause of her death. >> i didn't find any evidence. >> reporter: cardiologist said from his analysis she was in relatively good health and there was no natural reason she should have been found unconscious in her bathtub in april of 2007. >> in chest pain. she had no symptoms that suggest that she had a significant problem. >> are doctors unique in their ability to commit homicide?
>> objection. >> reporter: prosecutors dropped that bombshell but prevented from questioning dr. joshua perper about his book "when doctors kill, who, why and how" but that did not prevent him from giving his medical opinion. >> so your examination of the lungs and the microscope pick slides of the lungs. >> yes. >> support a finding of drowning? >> yes. >> reporter: and on cross examination they got the doctor to admit possibly michelle macneill died of naturally occurring heart disease. now, erin, next week closing arguments, dell rations maybe even a verdict. >> wow, obviously going to be eyes on that, thank you. we'll see you monday and thank you for joining us. anderson joins us now. so it's your uncle's turn. what? wait, wait, wait... no, no, no, wait, wait.
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good evening everyone. we begin with breaking news as details of the lax shooting are coming in. we're learning more about the killer, paul anthony. this is picture of him according to sources chl we obtained a copy of that picture. you're seeing it for the first time here on 360. there are reports at this hour he side a suicidal