tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN February 10, 2014 10:00pm-11:01pm PST
we speak to one player who says it will not work and expresses fears over gays in the locker room. and what hillary clinton thought of monica lewinsky. the first lady and the other women, including the one she called a narcissistic looney tune. and kids love giraffes. the question is what on earth convinced this zoo to think kids would love to see this giraffe shot and cut up and fed to lions. we begin tonight with ten words that could change the face of pro football. >> i'm michael sam. i'm a football player. and i'm gay. >> that is missouri all american defensive end michael sam speaking to "the new york times" revealing what his teammates
knew and accepted and his parents knew and accepted. he spoke to the times and told them why he went public. >> i want to own my truth. i didn't want anyone to break a story without me telling it. i want to tell it the way i want to tell it. >> now that he has, the reaction in the nfl where he is expected to be a mid to low round draft pick appears to defend on whether that action is by name or not. yesterday the league tweet wed admire michael sam's honesty and courage. michael is a football player. any player with ability and determination can succeed in the nfl. we look forward to welcoming and supporting michael sam in 2014. but on the other hand when allowed to remain anonymous, nfl coaches and executives sold "sports illustrated" a different story. one said that the league isn't ready in the coming decade or two, one doubted the maturity of players in the locker room,
something that jonathan vilma echoed in a recent interview. >> i think he would not be accepted as -- as much as we think he would be accepted. i don't want people to assume we're all homophobic. that's not the case. i imagine if he is the guy next to me and i get dressed naked and take a shower and he looks at me. how do i respond? >> another executive said that the press of a gay player would imbalance an nfl locker room chemically to which frank bruni replied in so many words, get over it. it's a locker room, for heaven's sake, not last call at the raw hide. so joining us now only on "ac360" is jonathan vilma. he was talking about being
looked at in the shower. thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> so less than two weeks ago, this was before michael sam's announcement, you said that a gay player would not be accepted as much as we think he would be accepted. why not? >> right. well, i think that you have a gay player as michael sam who has come out. and he has done a tremendous job. it says a lot about his character and who he is as a person. it's a simple change. people are resistant to change at times. and it's not just as simple as coming into a locker room. so my words, it was a poor illustration of the example i was trying to give on the context. i do apologize for that. i was trying to explain that whenever you have change into something that has been set in stone for so long or something that has been going for so long that change always comes with a little resistant.
it was a poor choice of an example i used. i do apologize for that. i was trying to explain when you present someone like a michael sam who is extremely confident and a powerful man in himself within his own rights into an nfl culture that is used to one thing will is going to naturally be that first level or wave of resistance before you have the transition. >> what specifically about this change do you think will lead to the resistance? >> yes, because you have many different dynamics within the locker room. you have people that can be more outgoing, more open minded. some people grew up with or without the acceptance of gays within their families. you have a lot of different elements in the locker room that you just don't see right now. many being on the inside for ten years for locker room, i've been around that.
it's not to say that the locker rooms are bad. it's to say there will be people who accept it willing and welcome him with open arms and unfortunately there will be some -- i'm 99% sure the minority will say they are not comfortable with that and don't know how to respond to that. that's just what's going to happen within the first whatever, year, two years, you have more players like michael sam coming out and saying that they're gay, the transition will be smoother. >> you talked about the showers. and this is a subject that does come up quite a bit. if i'm named in the shower, what if he looks at me, how am i supposed to react? what is your concern there? >> there is no concern. again, the point i was trying to make or the context i was trying to take it in, i've never been put in that situation.
so it's not as simple as anyone saying, well there's nothing wrong with it. i don't see anything wrong with it. you have other players that may and other players that may not. i don't know and the players don't know. this is the first time you have a michael sam who will -- by all accounts be drafted, openly gay, coming to a locker room. knowing in the nfl for the past however many years has experienced this before. this is all new to everybody. >> let's just take you, too, you played ten years, there are 53 players on a team and showered with literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of men. >> yes. >> you think none of them have been gay? >> you know, that's a funny thing about it. i look back at my transcript when i was interviewed by andrea cramer and she said that, she said you don't think anyone is gay? of course, odds are 2% or 5% of the locker room is gay.
do you think they are look at you? i don't think i'm that good looking, so i don't think they are looking at me. but the facts are no player before michael sam has come out before getting drafted or during his career in the nfl and openly said i am gay. and i'm sticking strictly to that context. >> you say as far as you know -- >> no, as i said, that was a very poor example. that was a poor example on my part which i'm glad i'm able to clarify that. that's a poor example of me trying to show the bigger picture which is the dynamics of the locker room. we're there 12, 13 hours a day and we're around us, men, guys, straight, gay, religious or nonreligious, whatever is it. there is a culture that gets developed.
account be a winning culture or a losing culture. for me, as i told andrea cramer in that interview as long as he can play, i'm okay with it. >> what about the locker room culture might make it difficult for a gay athlete or a michael sam? >> well the culture in the locker room, i don't think would make it difficult for a guy like michael sam. again, michael sam, you can tell is comfortable and confident in himself and a very good football player. there is nothing for him to be worried about. he is going to step in and he's going to play football. he's going to be a football player. that's what he is. for other guys who are not as strong minded or strong willed as michael sam. they may be timid or there may be times how they don't know how to react or assert themselves. >> i know you went to miami. but missouri is a good school also. and his teammates and coaches,
michael sam's coaches knew all season. the s.e.c. is a good conference. it's almost like pro football. if he can succeed in a season playing in the s.e.c., why on earth couldn't he success playing in the nfl? >> i believe he will succeed playing in the nfl. i think that he's going to do very well. again, you have -- of course we look at the football player. but you look at him as a person and his character and for him to be as strong as he is and strong minded as he is, he is a leader. those are all pluses for him. you have gms and scouts looking a it him. and he can play football. >> i want to bring in a slightly different perspective here. former punter chris kluwe who is an ambassador for the lgbt group. you have been an outspoken
supporter of same-sex marriage. you have spoken out for gay rights in the nfl and also said it may have cost you your job in the nfl. so, i want to ask you to look at this from that perspective right. there you have been supportive of michael sam. if you think you were run out of the nfl because of your support of same-sex marriage, don't you think it will be tough for a gay football player. >> there will be people who don't get it and don't understand why you should not discriminate. but i think that is the minority. it may be a vocal minority. but everything i have seen in the last eight years i've been in the league it has been shifting to more tolerance and accepted. and i think the issue is with the coaches and the executives. you have the older guard, this
elder generation way of looking at things and don't understand that a football player goes out to play football and in the locker room we are around each other the entire day and see each other more than our own families. we'll be fine as players. it's not the players you have to worry about. it's the coaches and front office. >> that "sports illustrated" article quotes personnel managers who have concerns and don't think that michael sam will fit in. cbs their sports commentary online says his draft prospects have dropped 70 slots overnight because of this new information. do you think this hurts his prospects in the nfl? >> i think it does and i think it's unfortunate that's the case. it shouldn't hurt his prospects what he is. everyone has freedom to pursue
his own life. michael sam wants to be a football player. it shouldn't matter what his sexuality is. it's unfortunate that we are still in that transition process where it probably will hurt his draft status but he is making a key step forward so in the future it won't hurt other guys' draft status. they be able to be openly gay and it won't be a story. >> jonathan says things are changing over the last several years. your words seem to have changed over the last few weeks. as a captain, what would you say to your teammates were michael sam drafted by the saints? >> there is nothing to say. the first thing that matters is can he play football?
when he steps into the locker room and on the field, my concern is getting him lined up and making sure that he knows the call and can go out there and play football. and he can play to our ability or our expectations. so for me as a captain, it's really about holding everybody accountable to the level that we said. i think that the saints have done a good job holding players to a standard. we have had some good runs in the playoffs these last four, five years. and it's about keeping the culture where it is. it's worried about production on the field. the white noise, anything not concerned with football throughout the season. so we would take an easy backseat to worrying about is michael sam gay or not gay, whatever the situation is. we know he is gay, is he a good player? we will find out. >> thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> thank you. up next for us, what did
hillary clinton think of monica lewinsky, really? at the time? and her husband's motivation for having an affair with lewinsky. see what forgotten papers reveal. it's the circle of life. why did a zoo have to make it a show for the kiddies. and what made them sacrifice a healthy giraffe in the process? we'll be joined by jack hanna, who is furious. aflac. ♪ aflac, aflac, aflac! ♪ [ both sigh ] ♪ ugh! ♪ you told me he was good, dude. yeah he stinks at golf. but he was great at getting my claim paid fast. how fast? mine got paid in 4 days. wow. that's awesome.
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in one letter written in september 1998, blair writes about how her friend hillary viewed the infidelity. it was a lapse but says to his credit he tried to break it off and tried to pull away and tried to manage someone who was a narcissistic looney tune. and it semis from the personal toll the death of her mother, father and ben foster took on clinton among other things. first randy kaye on more of the history that is resurfacing today and will again if hillary clinton decides to run for president. >> them brace from 1996 may be our only glimpse inside the bizarre relationship between then-president bill clinton and
monica lewinsky. lewinsky had joined the white house as an intern the year before, she was 21. in january, 1998, various media outlets got wind of her affair with the president and the secretly recorded tapes detailing the encounters. first lady hillary clinton standing stone faced at his side. >> i want to say one thing to the american people. i want you to listen to me. i'm going to say this again. i did not have sexual relations with that woman, ms. lewinsky. >> by the next morning, hillary clinton's pr campaign was in full swing, smiling for the cameras and defending her husband. first on nbc's "today" show. blaming it on a vast right-wing conspiracy. >> i think the important thing
now is to stand as firmly as i can say that the president has denied these allegations on all counts unequivocally and we'll see how this plays out. >> then on abc's "good morning america" calling the allegations false saying that she is sure that her husband told her the whole story. >> i know the american people will eventually know the story. i really just want everybody to take a deep breath and relax and just, you know, sit back, because here they come again. >> mrs. clinton promised the truth would come out and it did. president clinton spoke to the american people from the white house in august of that year about seven months after his wife declared to the world he'd done nothing wrong. he admitted just the opposite. >> indeed i did have a relationship with miss lewinsky that was not appropriate.
in fact, it was wrong. >> in december that year, the house of representatives voted to impeach president clinton. the president was acquitted by the senate. four years later in 2003, the former first lady spoke to "20/20" sharing her feelings on television for the first time. >> i was furious. i was dumbfounded. i was -- you know, just beside myself with anger and disappointment. you know, i couldn't imagine how he could have done that to me or to anyone else. >> in 2008, the former first lady opened up to talk show host tyra banks. >> you're mad. you're upset and disappointed. all that goes through your mind. but i have found you really shouldn't make decisions in the
heat of those moments. >> decisions and declarations that are now making headlines again. randy kaye, cnn, washington. >> some additional context now. investigative reporter carl bernstein has written "a woman in charge." he is a cnn contributor. so, carl, you got to know diane blair for your book. you spoke to her and looked through a lot of her notes. a lot of the information is not new. but some of the words we are seeing for the first time are now. she called -- hillary did here, a narcissistic looney tune. that might not be a new sentiment but the words are. what was hillary clinton going through when she said that? >> let's back up a little and take a look at what these supposed revelations are.
because almost all of what i read so far is not very revealing in terms of new information. what we have here is a lack of context in the presentation of this material today, particularly by right wing websites, by clinton back -- acolytes. we have to put everything in that light and go on from there. looney tunes, if you read my book or read other accounts, hillary was quite voluble. she called her a stalker. that's what bill told her
originally, that she was stalking him. hillary clinton believed her husband. she believed that bill clinton had not had sex with that woman. and he continued to tell her that. >> so it's not just these documents, which are being dredged up again in some cases for the first time and other cases, there are people talking about both clintons, republicans like rand paul of kentucky, who is talking about the lewinsky affair again saying that hillary clinton shouldn't accept money from bill clinton, that what he did was tantamount to being a sexual predator in the white house. are you saying that will make the clintons wary about maybe another run? >> first of all, it's inevitable and very useful for republicans to be making that kind of talk.
and also, i believe and i've talked so some people about this one of senator paul's objectives is to try to keep hillary clinton from running. by getting this stuff out there now and make things uncomfortable for the clintons and confront the questions now with the hope that she wouldn't run because she is obviously in many ways the most formidable democratic candidate. >> carl bernstein thank you for being with us. a healthy giraffe is killed, cut up and fed to lions in front of children. dramatic testimony about the gunshot wounds that killed teenager jordan davis allegedly after an argument over loud music.
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outrage as escalated to death threats against some of the staff at the copenhagen zoo. you have heard about marius the giraffe. he was shot dead by a veterinarian. he was not sick or old. he was part of a surplus problem. the zoo had too many giraffes with the same geneses. he was avoid inbreeding. but it's what happened next that stoked outrage.
an autopsy was done in front of an audience that included children. and the body was cut up into pieces. marius was fed to the zoo's lions and the other big cats there. again, all this, in front of children. the zoo called it a learning opportunity. jack hanna is the director at the columbus zoo and joins me tonight. most of the times we speak to you and it's a feel-good story. i have never heard you so upset about anything. you say this is one of the most horrifying things you have heard about in your entire life. >> it is. and the words -- if you don't mind, grotesque, insensitive. i can go on with the words but let's let that alone right now. i heard an interview where the person said this is a cultural difference.
yes, when i go to africa they have the giraffe as a consumption food but that is out in the middle of nowhere. this is in a park where the animals are there to educate all of us about this beautiful anna or whatever animal it might be. there were hundreds of people who wanted to take this giraffe. what -- you tell me why they did this? i don't think anybody can tell you why. i can't. >> you said this kept you up at night. the zoo says it was to prevent inbreeding. they say they need to manage the population in the right way at this zoo and others in europe. >> that's exactly correct. if they have too many giraffes, why keep breeding the genetic line? why do they do that? number two, if they have a giraffe they don't want to breed, it is simple. there is castration and birth
control. i can tell you the columbus zoo does not do this, we could find a home for this giraffe easily. one man offered a half million dollars to save this giraffe and give it a home. what are they doing here? maybe i can't figure it out after all these years. it's hard to give you an answer. they say they shot it. that's great. and i think from what i see in the pictures, they did an autopsy and took it next door to feed it to the lions. >> the head of the zoo says this was meant to be educational. he spoke to brooke baldwin. >> this is a rare thing. and then when we feed it to the lions, either we feed them a horse or a cow. they have to get their meat, now we can feed them a giraffe. i don't see any problem with that. this happens in africa.
and the kids need to see what the real world is. >> they shot the giraffe in the head, cut it up and fed it to the lions and the leopards. in a way, isn't this just the circle or life and like the nature shows where the animals are getting killed and eaten by the lions and tigers? >> i can't say i argue that point. i think you have seen it on my show. but we are not going to be doing that. you will see clips down the line. but what he is saying is these are young people. yes, it is nature. don't you think we should educate people about why it is important the have the giraffe. a lot of people don't understand. a lot of the giraffe species are endangered. so, that's to me that's a weak, weak point of educating young people. if they have an animal that
might pass on they do feed to the cats, that's up to them. but i just disagree with the fact that is anything about education. >> you seem deeply and even personally offended by this. i'm wondering if you can explain why? >> i work so hard and so do zoos in this country to explain the zoo logical world when we spent millions of dollars on the habitats to. show the giraffe out there. we have a hand feeding place where the kids can hand feed the giraffe carrots and things like that. what a beautiful animal. that's how i want them to remember the giraffe. i want to love something and save something. we are trying to educate people to that. if you don't see something and love it, you can't save it. >> this kept you up last night? >> beyond. you know something, i've had things that bother me. when i was told my daughter had
brain tumors, the zanesville incident where we had to shoot 48 animals because they escaped. this is in the top thing -- i can't compare this to anything i have ever seen. in this country, we don't do that and we don't intend to do that. we're there to educate you and educate people about these beautiful creatures that god gave us. >> jack hanna, thank you for being with us. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> defense witnesses testify for michael dunn in his loud music murder trial but not before the parents of his young victim left the courtroom. drew griffin goes on the hunt for million of dollars of medicine donated. did it reach the people who needed it? we're keeping him honest. peace of mind is important when you're running a successful business. so we provide it services you can rely on. with centurylink as your trusted it partner,
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courtroom today. >> reporter: the details were so intense, his parents, for the first time, had to leave the courtroom. jurors were shown morgue photographs, x-rays and the clothes the teenager was wearing when he was killed. the final witness, the forensic medical examiner. >> right about here is where the bullet entered. and it entered at the actual border of the chest and abdomen. of here it perforated the right lung and in front of the spinal column to perforate the aorta. davis was leaning away from the door in the back of the vehicle and not trying to get out of the suv as the defense suggests. >> reporter: dunn's fiance took the stand emotional describing
the events. she says after attending a wedding and having a few drinks they pulled into the parking lot at a gas station. he was annoyed by the loud music coming from the suv that the victim was riding in with three friends. >> what did he say? >> i hate that thug music. >> reporter: she went into the gas station when all of a sudden. returning to the car she saw dunn put a gun in the glove box. they drove back to a hotel where they mixed drinks and ordered pizza. the next morning, the shooting was on the news. >> when you woke up was the television on? >> it was. >> did you see something on the news? >> yes, i did. >> at that point did you learn a teenager had been killed at the gas station? >> yes, i did.
>> did you then tell the defendant you wanted to go home? >> yes, i did. >> and why did you decide you all needed to go home? >> because i thought i was going to be arrested too. >> but instead of contacting police, the couple drove back to their home in satellite beach, 130 miles away where dunn was later arrested. several character witnesses were called including a flight instructor. >> i always thought he was a gentle man. >> a sentiment shared by his wife. martin savidge, jacksonville. >> so let's talk more about this case with sunny hostin. she is in jacksonville. she has been in the courtroom monitoring this trial. so thanks for being with us. dunn of course claims he acted in self-defense. but his fiance gave that testimony where she details even
after seeing the report on the news that neither she nor dunn reported the shooting to the police. that doesn't bode well for the defense. >> it doesn't. this is a huge problem for the defense in this case they have been dancing around. let's face it. it is clear from the prosecution's case that michael dunn shot the car ten times and after that got into the car and drove away. after driving away, what did he do? he had pizza, watched a movie, had a drink and went to sleep. that will be difficult for the jury to overcome. tomorrow they will call an acute stress reaction expert. i have never heard of that kind of expert. they are going to try to explain away that behavior as part of his reaction to the stressfulness of the shooting. >> and one of the other things they are doing is giving defense
witness testimony he is a nice guy. a flight instructor of michael dunn who said he was a peaceful man. how is that playing in court? >> it wasn't playing very well. it fell flat. that is usually the case with character witnesses unless you have someone that is a really strong character witness, let's say the childhood friend who has become the president of the united states to talk about what a wonderful person this is, it just doesn't bode well. i was looking at the jury, john, and i think they found them to be pretty incredible especially after cross-examination. while they knew him they really knew his parents and they weren't there the night this happened. >> given the character witness testimony is not going well at least by your eyes and there is discrepancies in the time line of the story there, do you think there is a chance that dunn will have to testify in his own defense?
>> that is the million-dollar question. that's the question that we've all been talking about today after court. i think he has to testify. let me tell you why. bottom line, he has alleged and his lawyer talked about this in opening statement that this is a self-defense case. he may have seen a gun or a pipe. but no one has testified to that. the only person that can testify to that is michael dunn. i think the prosecution in this case learned from the zimmerman case. no video interrogation of michael dunn telling his story is in evidence. the only way to prove self-defense at this point is to have michael dunn testify. when i was in court right before the end of the day, the defense indicated they had one or maybe two witnesses pending. when going over the jury instructions, the defense wanted to go over the self-defense instruction, she made it clear it would be inappropriate to go over that instruction unless there was evidence of
self-defense. i suspect we will hear from michael dunn tomorrow. > thank you so much. appreciate it. up next we're back on the charity money trail keeping them honest. frequent heartburn? the choice is yours. chalky... not chalky. temporary... 24 hour. lots of tablets... one pill. you decide. prevent acid with prevacid 24hr. you decide. life's an adventure and it always has been.
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keeping them honest tonight. we're trying to track down $40 million worth of medicine that was supposed to have been sent to guatemala. remember the coconut m & ms. >> they sent us 11,000 bags of coconut m & ms. we didn't have a lot of use for those. >> or how about that one fingered salute that the president of an arizona breast cancer charity gave us when we wanted to ask a question. we have new questions for them and 15 other charities. our partners at the tampa bay times have helped to prepare this report. here is drew griffin. >> if you believe their paperwork, 15 little known u.s. charities who have little if anything to do with
international aide sent $40 million of medicine to guatemala in 2010. which charities? you have seen them before. the breast cancer society in arizona with its finger-waving president who earns $261,000 a year. and his stepmother who runs a cancer charity for children in knoxville, tennessee. she is rose perkins and she earns $227,000 a year but declined to tell us where the millions in her donations to go. these two charities and 13 others have claimed to sent massive quantities of medicines to guatemala. despite the size of the donations, they are not required to disclose details about the shipments. and no one, including the
charities and the biggest recipient in guatemala was going to give us the details. we tried to do something that the irs is rarely able to do, go to guatemala, find evidence of even one shipment of medicine. and local guatemala relief agencies say would have made a huge difference. >> have you seen a million dollars worth of stuff? >> not in our world. >> the organization that accepted the medical shipments in guatemala wouldn't talk to us. but for a sign in an office building it was hard to find evidence that the group existed. >> the order of malta is not based here but in a home? >> yes. the secretary is not working here. >> you can see how confusing this is. this is order of malta office.
but it is actually a business office. the ambassador is not here. we have been trying to reach him. he's in country and out of country and yet this organization has somehow distributed tens and tens of millions of dollars in goods throughout the countryside of guatemala just nobody knows where. >> when we tried to reach the headquarters for the order of malta in rome. our e-mails went unanswered. but it's not the order of malta who is claiming to have distributed $40 million in aid to this country. it's our charities in the united states. >> this comes from st. cloud, minnesota. >> and groups who actually operate in guatemala tell us if $40 million worth of medicine would have shown up here there is in way it could not be noticed. >> so is he working with you? >> this is a house -- one of the houses we helped out with the
home transformation. >> richard with helps international has been working in guatemala for 13 years and never heard of the order of malta here. >> this is black corn. >> in addition to helping the villager build new smoke-free wood stoves they organize medical teams from the u.s. who conduct clinics in the countryside, $40 million worth of medicine in his world is unheard of. >> in a year we will carry out about 15,000 clinics and 1,300 surgical operations. >> and through that process you are talking about $300,000? >> yeah. $350,000. so it's -- you know, it has to be a huge organization operation that can handle that volume of medicines. definitely. >> in a last effort to try to verify any of the alleged huge
donations from the american charities we travelled to the countryside and to the address of a warehouse where the medicines were stored. the guard would not allow us in without permission and he was given the order to keep us out. why? the man on the other end of the phone wouldn't tell us. >> i'm telling you we cannot find it anywhere. we can't find any stamp of your work and we're just trying to get to the bottom of it. we are standing at a warehouse gate and no one would let us in. >> we never got it or got an explanation where the $40 million in medicines went. so what's this all about? the investigation shows how easily charities can take credit for good deeds abroad but how difficult it can be to track their impact on the ground. so were the $40 million in donated medicines made up? if anyone knows it is these two men, it's roy tidwell, and this
man, cliff feldman, who comes up with the paperwork that claims the donates goods are worth millions. according to sources, cnn has learned that both men are under investigation by regulators from two states who are asking the same questions that cnn has been asking. if $40 million in donations is being reported to the irs, where are they? >> it's a great question. drew joins us now. and it just does seem inconceivable that $40 million worth of donation and medicine can go unnoticed. i mean, is this something that happens in the world of charity? >> well, the accounting happens all the time. we see charities that have virtually nothing to do with foreign aid. they have to do with veteran
services, dogs in the u.s., cancer societies in the u.s., veterans and on their tax form shows up these million dollar donations to far-flung places that you can't track down whether it exists or not. >> it's a terrific report. thank you for being on this for us. we'll be right back. what you wear to bed is your business. so, if you're sleeping in your contact lenses, ask about the air optix® contacts so breathable they're approved for up to 30 nights of continuous wear. ask your doctor about safety information as serious eye problems may occur. visit airoptix.com for a free one-month trial. never taken the time to just...watch. but something about spending this time together,