tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN February 23, 2014 10:00am-11:01am PST
he spent more than two years in prison. president yanukovych apparently tried to leave last night. coming up we have the final medal count for the olympic games. can team usa overtake the russians on the last day of competition. fareed zakaria gps starts right now. this is "gps" welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we will start today extraordinary turn of events in ukraine. i will talk live with one of the men who brokered the peace deal,
polish foreign minister radoslaw sikorski. and we will talk about ukraine, venezuela, sochi and the iran talks. and manufacturing and trade skills more valuable than an art history degree? that is what president obama said. i will ask a best selling author with an art history degree. also from dining at midnight to siestas at mid day, why spain may want to turn back the clock about 70 years. i'll explain. first here is my take. 2013 seemed to be the year of vladimir putin. the russian president had consolidated power in his country, kept his ally in syria from being toppled and brokered a deal to remove syria's chemical weapons.
2014 was going well for putin. the soechchi olympics was thut disaster many expected that's what it had looked as until a few days ago. now on the central issue of ukraine russia does not look so triumphant. ukraine's president yanukovych who is now the former president overplayed his hand. western observers were despairing and assigning blame for all that had happened for washington to the european union. and then things started to change. president yanukovych and the opposition made a deal brokered by the europeans calling for national elections and a new
constitution. even that was not enough for the protesters who have managed to achieve change much faster ousting the prior president and beginning the process of transformation right away. in this long and complex situation it is the people on the street who have shown determination, courage and persistence. everything we know about these kinds of revolutions is that this the thrilling moment followed by turmoil, tension, violence and chaos, destroying the old order is a lot easier than building a new one. this will be particularly true in ukraine which is riddlealed with corruption and on the brink of economic collapse. russia will not allow ukraine to slip from the glassp. one of the main fleets based in
ukraine. russian pipe lines crisscrossed the country. russia will demand a say in what happens there as it has for 300 years. that is why the opposition needs to approach with caution and a sense of national unity. russia will have to be careful. as the last two weeks has shown it has craeated a deep sense -- let's just marvel at the spirit of the ukraine people. let's keep our fingers crossed for their future. let's note that 2014 is not looking quite as good for vladimir putin as it did a week ago. let's get started. ♪
now, let's go to cnn in the eastern russian dominated part of ukraine. this is where former president yanukovych is believed to be after fleeing the capitol in kiev. is yanukovych there? and what is the mood where you are? >> reporter: that is a very good question. no one knows where yanukovych is. there were rumors that he apparently came here after leaving kiev. and then others said he apparently tried to get on a flight from the eastern city and fly to russia. that was actually confirmed by customs officials. they say the plane wasn't allowed to take off because it didn't have the proper documentation. fl are rumors flying around as to where he might be. the new government in place says they simply have absolutely no idea where he is.
>> what is the mood there? what is the narrative of events? what is the crowd saying over there about what has happened in kiev? >> reporter: that's a very interesting question because it is so different than it is in kiev. you have many people who are of russian heritage here but a lot of pro-europeans. right behind me you have a demonstration. the russians are very fearful. they were surprised by how quick the events went. now they fear that their culture here is under threat. they fear their language may be under threat. they fear that the russians moig be marginalized. you can seet that on the street. they are demonstrating of a statue of lenin. they have erected a fence around it.
they say they are going to stay there as long as it takes. it really is a charged up mood here in the east of ukraine. very, very different than the scenes of jubilationt that you see in kiev. >> let us go to phil black in the capitol kiev. it has been a wild turn of eevents since the peace deal on friday. is the opposition leader in charge? who is in charge? is everyone listening to the new government? >> reporter: well, i think at the moment it is the opposition together acting as one maintaining unity that are dr directing events. that is a positive step. speaking to the crowd. when i spoke to herwar afterwar she sounded like someone who
wanted to play a dominant role. today she says she is not interested in being the prime minister. the prime minister will be quite a powerful role but her daughter told me she wants to play a role in uniting the country which implies she has her eye on the presidency. and, of course, from the former heavyweight has become a dominant political figure. these are the people interested in the presidency. the challenge moving forward here is going to be maintaining unity. >> thank you, phil. we are now going to dwgo to radoslaw sikorski, the foreign
minister of poland. he was one of three who brokered peace deals. it is not entirely -- as the deal was wrapped up television cameras picked up exchange between sikorski and the leaders of the opposition leader. he said if you do not support this deal you will all be dead. were you surprised by the turn of events? clear ely your great fear when talking to opposition leaders was that yanukovych was going to bring out the army and start firing on the troops. >> hello. yes, that was a very tense moment. i think if the opposition hadn't supported the deal yanukovych's hand would have been strengthened and maybe his security operations would not
have disintegrated. and then what happened was something really strange. within minutes of us signing the agreement the protection, the security forces, started leaving the vicinity of the presidential palace which they didn't need to do. and the decompression of the regime started very quickly. >> you have seen this up close in poland. you have seen it in other places. do you think this is now a complete collapse of yanukovych and his regime? will they fight back? or do you think the opposition is firmly in control? >> we have a legitimate source of authority in kiev which is democratically elected parliament and the speaker of parliament who is acting
president. and that, i think, is the source of authority that needs to unite the country. they need to be inclusive. they need to represent the kind of spirit of compromise that the agreement envisioned. and they need to respect the regional and ethnic variety of ukraine. i think the friday agreement has been superseded by events apart from anything else president yanukovych was supposed to sign literally by now the change of constitution. and we have no news of him having done that. so you might say that the agreement is not being effected because events have not gone ahead. the spirit of it i hope lives on. and i hope ukraine creates the
kind of government which starts implementing difficult, necessary reforms that will prevent bankruptcy and hopefully put ukraine back on the european track. remember it didn't mention one thing, namely, how it all started. it all started with president yanukovych refusing to sign the association agreement with europe and the protests that against that decision. >> one thing i noticed was that there was a russian envoy at your negotiations. he did not sign the agreement. officials have said things that have not been complimentary about the turn of events. do you think russia will accept what is happening in ukraine right now?
>> ambassador played a constructive role in the negotiation and initialled the agreement that we reached. he was then under instructions from moscow not to sign it. but within 24 hours when president yanukovych's authority started unraveling the russians actually then began to like the agreement and wanted it respected. i think just like president yanukovych they also overplayed their hand. but the new ukraine government needs to be in touch, needs to have a conversation with russia which is an important neighbor just like poland because apart from anything else ukraine needs the lower gas price and doesn't want russia to play the separatest card. >> i think it was in george
bush's memoires i think he recounts a conversation where putin said to him, you know, ukraine is not a real country, a province of russia. that is the general attitude that people assume, that many in russia including those at the top feel about ukraine. do you think russia would allow ukraine to be a fully independent country with the association of the european union? >> ukraine is a fully independent country and her sovereignty and borders are actually guaranteed by the declaration of the united states, united kingdom and russia. gave up nuclear weapons and in return received guarantees. i think we should hold russia to those guarantees. and eastern ukraine, these are
large areas. ukraine is a country of over 40 million people. this is no georgia. playing with separatism would be a very dangerous game. >> do you think ukraine opposition will hold? one of your concerns was to get them to compromise. you have been in the room with these people. do they have the ability to stay together? >> ukraine missed her chances before after the orange revolution and some of the players are the same. my sense is that wants a new class of people, clean people. part of the movement -- there are people that i have talked to who are capable, who know what needs to be done and who would have the confidence both of the
west and of the ability to talk to russia. >> radoslaw sikorski, thank you very much. much more ahead. i have a great panel to talk about the situation in ukraine and outside. ♪ ♪ ♪ suddenly you're a mouthbreather. well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than cold medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. a steel cage: death match of midsize sedans. so you can breathe and sleep. the volkswagen passat against all comers.
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now i want to bring in a great panel of experts. david remnic reported from russia for many years and was in sochi. nicholas cristoph. welcome all. david, i have to start with you since you are just back from russia. what do you think is going on here? is this a game putin is playing? or is it fair to say that even
the liberal russian friends i have all sort of think ukraine is part of russia? >> in russia's eyes ukraine strategically, historically is one in the same linged by blood. if you look through putin's eyes this is his areas of interest. this is really complicated for us. >> he is not going to let it go quietly. >> absolutely not. >> do you think after sochi it frees him up? that he has been constrained? >> i think frees him up makes it sound nice. i think what might happen is some of the slight liberalizing yestures letting free pussy riott and other gestures are off the boards. i think putin is in a very tough
assertive mode and has nothing to do with snowboarding but has to do with his regional interests. it has to do with differentiating himself from the west morally as well as politicly. i think he is a very tough figure to deal with. >> your family comes from ukraine, your father grew up in ukraine. do you think that -- are we overplaying the ethnic difference. some people say to me this is all old fashioned thinking, the implication is this is a new generation of ukraineians. >> i think the divide goes very deep. it is regional, religious. it is a sense especially in the west that everybody knows people who have gone to poland and prosperred there. and then you seet at home the country is stagnating. it is not just resentment at the
political repression. it is also resentment in economic mismanagement in our village in southwestern ukraine. the words are worst now than when my dad lived there in the 1940s. and the resentment and corruption. all of that is much more felt in the west than the east. >> robin wright, i will ask you to start us off when we come back. we have lots more ahead. we will be right back. [ sneezes, coughs ] i've got a big date, but my sinuses are acting up. it's time for advil cold and sinus.
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there are lots of other stories to talk about this week, unrest in venezuela, unrest in iran. the sochi games. nicholas christophe, columnist for the "new york times." and robin wright, author. welcome. ron, i want to start with you. when you watch what is happening in ukraine this feels good and it feels teleogenic. it is happening in real time. what the experience of the arab world as been it is easy to get
rid of bad government. >> you have to get all these diverse forces together and come up with constitutional reforms and then address the very economic, social and political issues that drove people to turn out. what we have learned through kind of the last 60, 70 years in the dramatic transitions throughout the world is as your former colleague in harvard wrote it takes at least three waves. we had in 1990/'91 the anti soviet protests. and today a decade later you see the uprisings at independence square. it takes time as we look at what has happened elsewhere in the world in south africa. the reality is change takes
hellishly long. >> in venezuela student uprisings leading to anti-government protests. chavez was popular and charismatic. this guy isn't. >> chavez used violent rhetoric but didn't, for the most part, actually use violence for people. he had charisma. madeiro does not. >> you have been for a more assertive pro-democracy stand. in places like syria you wish the u.s. more involved. do you think the obama administration should be more ingai engaged actively? >> i don't think we have a lot of leverage in either place. i think we can marginally raise the cost of massacres. i think we have influence on the
opposition. i remember everybody hearing that i was an american wanting me to sign their orange ribbons. i think most part we are by standers. >> david, a lot of people think about putin and obama versus putin. andt that does seem to be the kind of -- there is a feelingt that there is something new about the way in which putin is whether on syria or on these issues, whether on gay rights, there is something going on, a kind of assertion of russia, of putin and authority. you have the big piece in the new yorker. kbhaut do you think? >> i think putin came to office when there were hundreds of thousands of people on the street asserting not just gay rights but human rights and democratic impulses and all the rest. this was not necessarily the majority of the country but extremely successful series of
demonstrations. putin came into office and his first order, priority, was to crush it. he sees what happened in tahrir square and the orange revolution. he will not allow that to happen in russia. he has what verges on a paranoia about it and thinks the united states is trying to ferment it in russia. t putin was very eager to publicize it. putin is trying to establish and re-establish russia as a source of power and greatness again after a generation of demoralization. and probably is popular in that sense. in some ways, yes. it is not just geopolitical. it is moral. you are starting to see the creation of a kind of putin-like
conservatism that was indoorsed online by one pat bucanen. that is what all of the speech is about the kind of -- in the west good and evil is the same and re-evaluation of history. it is a holistic look at the position of russia and the world. putin is wanting to be the peter the great of it. >> so conservative nationalism the new glue to hold the country together? >> he hopes so. >> iran talks are underway. you were in iran. you are going back there. do you think--the big question everyone has is, is the supreme leader behind the kind of painful concessions that it would take to make a deal here on the iranian side? >> i think the iranian
calculations involve more. they have gone through a strategic re-calculation that a decade ago when the united states moved in and eliminated rivals iran looked like it had muscle. today with u.s. draw down iran feels more vulnerable because it is seeing the rise of al qaeda franchises, the potential comeback. and it actually shares many common interests with the united states. it is also a point that it has enough technologically. if they wanted to turn around and make it, they could, the question is can they be stopped from wanting to do it? and i think they actually feel that they are at that turning point. i often say the iranians want to
get back into their traditional place in the world. if you want to understand persian nationalism think of your most chauvinistic texan. it is not just the regional player. they want to be in the great place it was before. all of this comes together and i think is one of the reasons we are likely to see them get a nuclear deal. >> and very optimistic. thank you for joining us robin wright, nicholas christophe. much more on the show including the story of one european nation that wants to turn its clocks back all to save the economy. r, the only rinse that helps prevent tartar build-up and cavities. a little swishing. less scraping. yes! [ male announcer ] new crest pro-health tartar protection rinse. it helps you escape the scrape.
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night tv. but there is one country that loves it even more, spain. an estimated 25% of spaniards are watching tv at midnight to a great piece in the "new york times." staying up late is part of the culture. restaurants serve dinner until well after 10 p.m. spaniards sleep 53 minutes less. spaniards are known for taking long breaks and siestas. a number of economists are saying this needs to stop. by some accounts spain loses 8% gdp. swujz is spain turn clocks back. you have countries like the uk.
spain falls in pretty much the same range but spain is actually an hour ahead of england along with france, germany, poland and many other central european countries. it wasn't always so before world war ii spain kept the same time as britain. but during the war when hitler sought to gain support the spanish dictator moved to align the clocks with those of germany's. seven decades later that remains the case despite spain's location. it is an interesting thesis and i don't know if it would work. the good news is that spaniards are thinking hard about improving the economy. we tend to think of spain as a european basket case. every second person between the
age of 18 and 25 is out of a job. spain has been in a recession for several years. the eurozone has had to bail it out so that it could avoid defaulting. beyond the head lines there is now some good news. after years of recession gdp has begun to grow by 0.3% in the last quarter. eeconomists predict double that rate in 2014. exports grew nearly 6% last year and will grow by that amount once again this year. spain's main stock market is up by a third since june. bill gates poured $150 million stake in a spanish construction fund. what has changed? spain has been willing to take its medicine and put in place tough economic reforms but the ubplic and private sectors have become leaner and more efficient in the face of stiff opposition madrid has raised the retirement
age and tweaked rules to make jobs more flexible. companies can hire and fire more easily. spain's relative labor costs have declined steadily. all of these measures have made spain more competitive boosting exports. growth is bringing in tax revenues and stabilizing the country's finances. but madrid can and should do more. spain's revenue remains among the lowest in all of europe. and the greatest challenge remains unemployment, especially youth unemployment. if spain can't create jobs an entire generation of spaniards will be lost. european countries have accepted painful measures but what they needed was structural reforms. i don't know if turning the clocks back will make much of a dent. if it sparks a conversation about productivity in general it is high time. up next a different economic
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president obama made amends this week, not with the republican caucus but with an art history professor in texas. what was the issue? take a listen to what the president said at a speech at a ge plant last month. >> folks can make a lot more potentially with skill manufacturing or the trades than they might with an art history degree. >> those words upset ann collins so much she wrote an e-mail to the president. she was shocked when she got a hand written apology back. should we be pushing towards trade skills he mentioned? what is the value of art history? let's ask an art history major. adam has been writing for "the new yorker" for almost 20 years and has written a slew of wonderful books including "paris to the moon" and "the steps
across the water". adam, what was your reaction as an art history major when you first heard what the president said. >> you have to say if the apology came to art history majors. i thought he spoke well for the president. he is a man who knows when to apologi apologize. i thought what he was saying was alarming a little bit. what it implies is that there is a kind of consensus that the arts or history and english are secondary to our lives. i have been trying to think of ways in which you can counterer that. it seems to be the wrong way to counter it is art history majors end up working for google and end up being software entrepreneurs. that sometimes is true. steve jobs cared much more about
the courses he took in calligraphy and graphic arts than anything else because that was the basis in which he made apple the company it became. >> that can sometimes distinguish you. what distinguishes is creative sensibility. >> i also think it is true that we don't have to apologize for the humanities and the arts in that way. the truth is in every civilization that we know of there is an on going conversation about books and pictures. when i went out to the google campus those guys didn't want to talk about google translate. they wanted to talk about "breaking bad." it is conversation about books and pictures. that is an on going conversation. what universities do, what humanities programs do is that they do two things. they take the conversation back into history so we know the
conversation we are having about homeland is also a conversation we can have about george elliot or dickens. and they do something my father's father, my grandfather, was a little grocer, a butcher, no knowledge of the arts at all. wonderful man but a simple immigrant. my father became a professor of 18th century english literature. why did he do that? because you could go to school and walk into an english department. so when people say, well, the humanities are elitist, it's just the opposite. it's when we don't have humanities departments that that conversation about civilization is elitist. when we have them at universities it means anybody can take part. >> wasn't what the president was saying true in this sense, that not everyone should aspire to a kind of four-year liberal arts degree, that there are some people for whom a two-year course in mechanics or some trade like that is going to be a much more productive path because that person's talents or
skills might be better suited to that? or is that fundamentally kind of class divide? much of europe works that way, where there's streaming where people are moved into. that's why the german economy has not had some of the employment problems we've had. >> true in canada too, the country i come from. you have a lot of two-year programs right out of college. those things are fine. if we start amputating the life of hands and eyes from the life of the mind we're going to regret it partly for the reason of the steve jobs principle, a lot of real innovation comes out of the arts, but also because finally it's a question of values. why do we want to be prosperous? it's not just because we want to put things in our pockets and in our stomachs. it's also because we want to put things in our heads, we want to put things in our children's heads. we want them to feel that they're part of a conversation that extends back beyond them and will extend in front of them. the humanities are uniquely good at doing that. we need the humanities because we're human and the crucial thing about being a human being
is we know we're at one place in an arc of time and that there's a future in front of us and a past that stretches behind us. >> so why did you become an art history major? >> oh, because for all of those reasons. because the prettiest girl i had ever seen was studying renaissance art every morning at mcgill university. if i'm sitting near her in the dark i'm going to be able to insinuate myself into her good graces and 30 some years later we are still married. >> always. adam gopnik, thank you so much. up next, why fashion designers around the world should knock off this african church attire. ...and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve... ...for all day relief. "start your engines"
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72 years ago last week president franklin d. roosevelt signed executive order 9066 authorizing the secretary of war to create military areas in the united states from which anyone could be excluded. although japanese-americans were not specifically mentioned in the order, it was clearly meant for them. roughly 120,000 were forced from their homes and exiled to camps
in remote areas where they remained surrounded by barbed wire and armed guard for much of the war. it brings me to my question of the week. which u.s. president officially rescinded president roosevelt's executive order. a, harry truman, b, dwight eisenhower, c, garld fojarlds f ronald reagan. stay tuned, we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's book of the week is "the steps across the water" by adam gopnik whom you just heard from. this is a children's book written with style. it's a fantasy set in new york with central park, skyscrapers, zeppelins and the chrysler building and much more. buy it for a young relative. and now for the last look. after the kind of winter we've had here in new york, upgrades on winter coats have been the style of the season. at the city's recent fashion week, one of the must-have items was a fabulous fur. halfway across the world these south african men are sporting fur of their own during a religious ritual.
carrying warrior shields the men are wearing the traditional ceremonial attire of the shemby religion, a monkey tail loin cloth, ostrich feathers on their head, a leopard skin belt and a leopard skin cape and perhaps fashion designers should copy this african custom. you see, for some of the members, the fur is fake. in fact, it's made in china. the international trade of leopard parts is illegal and the skins used in the ceremonial attire usually come from poachers. thanks to a project by the wild cat conservation group, a fake fur material is now being made in china and shipped to south africa. 10% of members are estimated to have made the switch to synthetic fur and thousands of these fabulous faux shoulder capes have been shipped to the region. it's a strange day when african animal skins are manufactured in
china and shipped via dhl, but it is certainly the bright side of globalization. the correct answer to our "gps" challenge question is c, while most of the camps holding japanese-americans were emptied by the end of world war ii executive order 9066 was not officially rescinded until 1976 when president ford issued a proclamation declaring that the evacuation had been wrong. in 1988, president reagan signed the civil liberties act which awarded $20,000 to each of the survivors of the camp for their hardship and loss of property. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hello, everyone. i'm fredricka whitfield. these store es are topping our news this hour. it was a huge reveal on the cover of "sports illustrated." basketball player jason collins announcing he is gay. we have breaking news about his
career next. and a country mourning. a week of deadly violence now wonders what comes next. the president is nowhere to be found. what happens now in the ukraine? plus, after two weeks, the olympic games is over with no major attacks or incidents. we'll look at how the security plans worked. nothing will ever be the same in pro sports after today. it looks like the nba's brooklyn nets are about to sign the nba's first openly gay player, jason collins came out last april but hasn't played in the league since. now he's about to become a pioneer as the first gay player in one of the major sports leagues. cnn's layera baldocera joins me with more. what do we know about this