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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  June 18, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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meanwhile, an offensive tackle against the washington redskins. the u.s. patent office cancels the team's trademarks saying they're offensive to native americans. the team has been under pressure to drop the redskins game, but far has resisted and vows to appeal. that's it for us tonight. i'm don lemon. thank you so much for watching. "ac 360" starts right now. it's 11:00 p.m. on the east coast of the united states, 6:00 a.m. here in baghdad going into what could be some of the most challenging days yet for this country and the united states. there is breaking news. we've learned that vice president joseph biden spoke by phone with prime minister nuri al maliki, iraq's speaker of parliament as well as the president of iraqi kurdistan. according to the white house, he underscores that the u.s. stands ready to enhance american support to all the iraqis in their fight against the sunni insurgent force, isis. the fighters now have a serious chokehold on the fuel supply in this country, even though the
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central government claims to be driving them back, the front line is as close as 37 miles from here. faith in the government remains low. trust in maliki to look out for all iraqis, shia, sunni, kurds, christians seemingly nonexistent. against that backdrop, the prime minister is requesting and the obama administration is considering whether to have air strikes and other assistance. this afternoon president obama met with congressional leaders but not running through a list of possible actions that he is planning to take. tonight we will run through a list of possible actions. but first, a wrap of the big developments here today. long live isis these sunni militants chant on the streets today. they now are in control of this city and at least part of its massive oil refinery. black smoke fills the air as militants are said to have set fires to at least five oil storage tanks. witnesses say clashes are still ongoing at this, iraq's largest
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refinery. the loss of the baiji refinery is going to be a big blow for the government here in baghdad. it's one of just three refineries in the country, and its entire output is used within iraq. it's used for domestic consumption. so that means there is going to be longer lines at gas stations in baghdad as people try to fill up their cars and there is just not as much gasoline to be had. already power, electricity is intermittent in the capital. you don't get it for 24 hours a day. you can hear the humming sound. those are generators used in businesses and private homes. most people can't afford to run a generator for several hours every day. so the loss will mean bigger blackout period for many families. it comes as nuri al maliki promised a counter-offensive saying they'll strike back at isis and promising to teach them a lesson after suffering humiliating defeats last week. iraqi military officials say they have retaken the border town of tall'afar.
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cnn has not independently verified the government's claim. tonight also announced investigations into some 59 high-level iraqi police and military officials for allegedly abandoning their posts. if found guilty that. >> could be executed. meanwhile, kurdish forces pushed back sunni militants from the outskirts of kirkuk today, further strengthening their hold on the city. they took control of kirkuk last week. [÷ the leader of the shia nation warning sunni extremists in iraq that his country is prepared to protect shia shrines in iraq at all costs. these terrorist groups and those supporting them whether in the region or across the world are nothing against the will of the great nation of iraq, he says, and the muslim nation of this land will put them back where they belong. the announcement comes after the
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head of the qods force met to help the government coordinate a response. saudi arabia's foreign minister in turn said his country opposed any foreign intervention and any interference in iraq, a statement widely believed to be directed at iran. the big question tonight, though, concerned how much and what kind of american military involvement, if any at all. the only thing the white house ruled out is sending combat forces back into iraq for a look at the other options, we're joined by jim sciutto, retired major general and cnn analyst james "spider" marks. jim, let me start off with you this. phone call we just learned between joseph biden and nuri al maliki, what do we know? >> he spoke with nuri al maliki, but he also spoke with the president of the kurdish region, the mossad barzani, as well as the speaker of the iraqi parliament. when you look at the read out of this call, you can see the consistent message coming from
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the administration that is him saying that they talk about potential military assistance for iraqi security forces, but always coupled with a political component. he says he was very direct with maliki, saying that this will have to be paired with maliki .+eb other minority, the sunnis and the kurds there so that he is acting on behalf of iraqis as a whole and not just the shiite majority of which maliki is a member as well. and it's interesting, because we also heard today from general david petraeus of course who is commander in iraq, the architect that rescued iraq from its last civil war. and he had a similar message in his comments in london saying warning against military involvement in iraq, unless it has a political component, unless it is in conjunction with an iraqi government that is acting on behalf of all of its people and not just one minority there. >> which exactly was the political component that was
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supposed to happen in the wake of the surge which nuri al maliki has not followed through on. jim, the pentagon has put together this draft list of isis targets. it has not finalized that. is that correct? >> it has not. what i'm told is they have a draft list, but this list is always being updated with new intelligence that they have so that it has the latest options for the president. bury, this list has been presented to the president so that he can consider it. and another thing i'll mention. for several days now, speaking to military officials, myself, and barbara starr, our pentagon correspondent, we have heard a consistent message about what those options are. yes, air strikes, though limited air strikes. in addition to that, the u.s. sending additional military advisers into iraq to help coordinate iraq's military response. now, to be clear, these advisers would not be on the front lines where they would be at risk, breaking the president's promise not to have boots on the ground. but they would be in the embassy compound where there were already 200 some odd military
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advisers who act in a similar capacity, bolstering that existing capacity there. and the other component to military options, reconnaissance flights. and in fact we're told those reconnaissance flights have already begun. so flying over the isis positions, getting intelligence that the u.s. can share with the iraqi side. but also possibly use if the president decides to launch missiles or bombing missions over those sites as well. >> general marks, the knack this target list is being put together and refined as events change on the ground, the fact that there are over reconnaissance flights, that might sound like air strikes are eminent. that's not necessarily the case? this is something that would be done just as planning purpose? >> well, it is. beyond the planning, what it really gets to is the effort that the united states is now taking on with the advisory element of the forces that are on the ground. i mean, the 300 some odd forces that were put on the ground just a couple of days ago really have
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a couple of missions. one of them is the noncombatant evacuation possibility, and also the advisory role, which has everything to do with targeting. and so the united states in concert with the iraqis in the sanctuary of either the iraqi joint chiefs staff command center or there in the embassy where we have a very large down link capability, where all the intelligence capabilities can come into an intelligence center, where all of that can be fused so that we can hand off targeting data to the iraqis so that they can use both on the ground. and that's being updated and refreshed by these flights. and i would hazard to guess that most of these flights are probably by uavs or drones at this point. >> general marks, though, if they do send in special operations forces, special operators, is it likely, though, that they would really just stay at the embassy? is that -- if you really want to get an influence on the iraqi
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military and have them influence the fighting capabilities of a lot of these battalions out in the field, don't these special units have to be the special forces have to be out with those units in bases in the field? >> anderson, that's a great question. yes. it's the difference between what they can do, what the doctrine that they've been taught, their tactics, techniques and procedures, and what their@ president. so if there are going to be special operations forces involved and advisers at that level, i can guarantee at this point they're not moving forward to help direct fire or to help maneuver elements or to help use -- to help indirect fire from ground units that the isf, the iraqi security forces are engaging right now with isis. i think at this point they're providing a top level command and control element into the very highest levels at the iraqi
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joint chiefs of staff. >> hmm. general marks, appreciate you being on. jim shooto as well. i want to bring in our nic robertson now and arwa damon. nic, i want to start with you, that vice president biden had a phone call information with nuri al maliki. you've been talking to a lot of sources here on the ground. what are you hearing about the confidence people within the government and elsewhere have in nuri al maliki? >> confidence is low. there are politicians here really don't believe in his own party we're told by people or in conversation with them, they don't think that nuri al maliki is the man to make the compromises. he hasn't shown that so far. the decisions he has taken some people consider will have further alienated sunni politicians here. there are politicians that just don't feel that they can work with him. therefore, how can he really be the man to make concessions and move the country forward. a new prime minister is needed. now the election results from the last couple of months should have been ratified, and
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therefore that should begin a process towards the end of this month that would determine a new prime minister being announced. there is the constitutional scope for that change to happen. but lot of that is going to defend on nuri al maliki himself. is he prepared to make the ultimate concession for himself and give up power. >> arwa, in the north, you've been talking to christiqycmìc% areas. a, do they have any confidence that nuri al maliki is the man to continue leading this country? and also, how concern ready they about life under isis? >> they very much feel, anderson, as if they are the victim of politics. and they believe that the country's leaders lacked the political maturity that is necessary at this stage to actually move the nation out of this current crisis and horrific bloodshed. the christian community here, remember, during the years of iraq's sectarian warfare and even afterwards was consistently
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targeted by insurgent groups on all sides. and that fear is returning to them once again. this town that we went to go visit is only ten minutes away from isis' positions in mosul. mosul being the first city that fell as the terrorist organization was advancing. they have begun to, the christians in this town have begun to arm themselves. they're setting up civilian defense units. a lot of shops are closed either because the owners have fled or because they're not bothering to open. they've been cut off for the last four days from electricity, from water. and they are absolutely terrified that no one is going to come to their assistance. and it's absolutely heartbreaking to speak to them, anderson, because so many of them will say to you, you know, in the last ten years since saddam hussein was taken from power, if we ever had a chance, if there ever was a glimmer of hope, something would always happen to take that away. and that is happening most certainly across the country at this stage.
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>> and arwa, you talk about mosul, a city of some two million people, the first to fall to isis forces. you know, they have a very draconian vision of what life should be like. they apparently posted, you know, new rules for the town. women should stay indoors. no smoking, no drinking, no music, things like that. do we know what life has become like in mosul? have they started to institute their rule of law there? >> they have but perhaps in a more subtle way than we've seen them try to their rule of law in syria. they're encouraging people to abide by the rules at this stage. let's also remember that they're trying to keep this relationship that they have going on currently with the sunni tribes and the various other sunni insurgent groups, the former baathists as a fairly solid one and one that loose arrangement
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was made to bring all the sunni groups together to launch this current offensive, isis was supposed to abide by certain rules. and that was not to impose their own interpretation of sharia on the islamic population and certainly not to carry out the mass executions. we're hearing from sources they've been told to sort of hold back on trying to impose their ideals on the population. but that being said, they are continuously issuing orders. most recently, they told all journalists that they are not allowed to film anything unless they have specific permission from members of isis. anderson? >> of course, nic, how long does that kind of liberal rule, if you can even call it that, how
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isis has put out. you've heard the claims of mass killings by their fighters. tonight what almost no one knew about the shadowy organization. how it runs its campaign of terror. thanks to a remarkable intelligence coup. we'll learn a whole lot more ahead. and more details about the raid that captured one of the benghazi ring leaders and there is a big fight going on now about where he should be held, tried for murder. i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you get there.
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welcome back. we're live in baghdad tonight. they are less than an hour's drive from here. they control iraq's second biggest -- part of the biggest oil refinery in baiji in territory larger than the state of israel right now. they have rounded up officials, people they consider nonbelievers and apostate. if it is true, it would be one of the worst atrocities in recent memories. when you consider isis is estimated to number only a few thousand in all, you can see why the sunni militants known as isis have inspired such terror. they are the group after all that al qaeda famously considered too extreme in some ways for them. and america's security officials worry that like al qaeda, they could eventually target the united states. all of that makes a recent discovery in mosul such a coup. this is before they took over mosul, a window directly inside the organization isis. it was wrote about for the
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guardian. i spoke about it earlier today. i was fascinated by this article you wrote. and you're the only person i read who found out this information. talk about the intelligence that was discovered about isis before mosul happened. >> two or three days before that dramatic storming into mosul took place, the iraqi forces had gone to the house of someone they had been told was the head of the military council of the isis organization that had been led to him by a courier who had finally broken after two weeks of interrogations, gone to the house, shot him dead and found 162 memory sticks. and on those sticks were an absolute treasure trove of information. >> these were computer sticks that belonged to isis? >> absolutely. >> they had all the information, all the intelligence about isis. >> everything. financial accounts, strategic leadership, the second tier of leaders as well which is really important to them. while they broadly knew who the
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senior leaders were, they didn't know much about the second tier. they were the guys who were feeding in the new recruits, the foreigners who with coming in from all around the world, from europe, arab, the u.s. and elsewhere. they had at least a thousand informants, i should say, infiltrators into the iraqi institutions. >> so isis has -- people have infiltrated the stufgs iraqi government. >> that had been known for a long time. but not to this scale. it had been known they had more or less got into the security establishment. but we're talking about the finance ministry, the foreign ministry, every ministry in the country. and that is something that was totally startling, even to the iraqis. >> so isis has a very well-organized structure? >> absolutely. not only that, they're strategically capable. very, very capable. there had been a sense of an understanding of that, but not the extent that was revealed. these accounts would have passed
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any forensic auditor. they showed before mosul took place, $875 million in cash alone. >> that's a huge amount for any kind of terror group. >> and 36 million has been from looting antiquities from archaeological digs around the country. the rest had come from commandeering the oil fields of eastern syria and selling the oil out the back to the regime across the border into iraq or turkey. >> and now that they controlled mosul, they were able to loot the banks there as well. so they have even more stockpiles of gold and cash. >> straight-up cash and gold. conservatively, 500 million. military equipment, including 200 sort of armored troop carriers. 50 humvees, five tanks, ammunition rockets, whatever. conservatively around a billion dollars. you do the sums, they're up around 2 billion, 3 billion at the momentum. >> do you see a rise in sectarian violence or the potential for rise in sectarian violence as volunteers now, tens
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of thousands have said they'll take up arms, largely shia joining these militias? >> well, you and have i been coming here for many years now. and we both know when the street is turning. not quite there yet, but it has the real potential to do. so the issue with these sectarian militias is they are signing up on sectarian lines. they're not doing so as nationalists. their sense of sectarian identity has primacy over any allegiance to the state do. >> you see any examples to reach out to sunni groups, to reach out to kurds, something he has not been able to do in the last few years? >> i think he has burned his bridges with the kurds and i strongly suspect he has burned his bridges with the sunnis. i can't see how he can bring this up. his military, three divisions walking away. he was commander in chief of the country. how is he going to assemble a coalition to take more than half the seat parliament which he
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needs to be prime minister for third term with that sort of a backdrop. >> you've been report hearing since 2005. you know this place probably better than nearly anyone. were you surprised by the speed of isis forces and how important is this moment right now in iraq? >> absolutely was surprised, and so were they. they weren'tpaying being in the center of mosul on the afternoon they attacked. they didn't think the iraqi military would abandon the post and give them open to loot the country. 0t issue was in mosul. it wasn't even so much being defeated on the battlefield. >> it was not fighting. >> it was not fighting. it was fleeing before they there. suddenly isis moved in and they were gone. >> this is a threat to the country. not only this threat, but potentially the region as well. i mean, the borders between iraq and syria are already increasingly irrelevant when isis can drive over to and from like a highway. that's where they took the weapons they took from mosul. they have from syria to mosul
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and down to baghdad. they control that strategically. if their insurgency continues to take hold, that is undoubtedly going to unstabilize the region. we've already seen kirkuk change hands. this is history writ large at the moment. >> thank you so much for talking to us. >> you're welcome. >> martin schulhof with the guardian. for more and other stories, new tonight new details about the dangerous operation that captured one of the masterminds of the deadly attack in benghazi and why it took nearly two years to get ahmed abu khatallah, next. and 9 grams of protein. [ bottle ] ensure®. nutrition in charge™.
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that's why i always choose the fastest intern.r slow. the fastest printer. the fastest lunch. turkey club. the fastest pencil sharpener. the fastest elevator. the fastest speed dial. the fastest office plant. so why wouldn't i choose the fastest wifi? i would. switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. one of the alleged masterminds behind the deadly attack in the benghazi, libya is on board a navy ship at this
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hour being questioned by the high value detainment group. ahmed abu khatallah is his name. he is likely going to face a federal trial in the united states. it's been nearly two years since that attack in benghazi that left four americans dead, set off a political firestorm. khatallah was captured over the weekend. new details of the operation are coming to light. barbara starr tonight report. >> reporter: ahmed abu khatallah was lured south of benghazi. army delta force commandos, the fbi, and intelligence agencies had been watching him for days. they swooped in sunday night. the chairman of the joint chiefs hinting at how dangerous it all was. >> the abu khatallah operation though it may have looked rather routine, it took us months of preparation and intelligence. >> reporter: khatallah, a key operator in ansar al sharia, the group the u.s. blames for the compound in benghazi. intelligence gleaned from local libyans helped draw khatallah to the location.
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they captured him with no shots fired, no one getting hurt. then u.s. commandos whisked him to the uss new york in the mediterranean. he is now undergoing questioning. delta force commandos had been in libya before. in october, they captured alleged operative anas al libi in tripoli in a raid that took less than 30 seconds. some wonder why it took so long to get to khatallah when journalists like cnn's arwa damon found and talked to him more than a year ago. >> we met with ahmed abu khatallah in public at the coffee shop of a well-known hotel here in benghazi for around two hours. he seemed to be confident, his demeanor most certainly not that of a man who believes that he was going to be detained or targeted any time soon. >> reporter: so how could cnn find khatallah and it took u.s. commandos over a year to get him? khatallah had gone into hiding.
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u.s. intelligence had to track him down and then get ready to move. >> you have to know where he lives, where he frequents, when he goes where, does he go with his family, does he have a security detail. all of these questions have to be factored in. and once you know the answer to that, then you develop your plan on how you're going to take him. >> reporter: the delta force commandos who got khatallah belonged to the joint special operations command, one of the most secretive organizations in the u.s. military. the same military command that got bowe bergdahl back a few weeks ago and also went after osama bin laden. barbara starr, cnn, the pentagon. >> joining me now are cnn national security analyst fran townsend and former ncis special agent in charge robert mcfadden, the senior vice president of the supon group. robert, khatallah is now aboard the uss new york being questioned, being interrogated. i know you have interrogated a lot of terror suspects. can you take us inside?
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how does it work? >> well, the way it will be working right now, you of course have the a level interrogation team that is out there. of course, first things first with the subject with abu khatallah, the medical clearance. i'm sure that was taken care of. everything we heard about was that it was a very clean pickup. so once the medical is over, then the team, the interrogation team makes an engagement with the subject and starts on what we refer to usually as an operational cord, trying to get to the matters at hand. >> and when you say the matters at hand, are you -- are investigators more interested at this point in actionable intelligence and current information he may know about events that may still take place rather than what happened at the consulate? >> absolutely. think of it in exactly those terms, anderson. it's about national level security requirements in intelligence requirements at the national and dod level. and that would have to do with
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things like disrupting plots. what plots might be under way. who is involved, what is the command and control structure, all the present actionable intelligence that would disrupt threats and save lives and protect u.s. interests. now, of course, what happened in benghazi was of critical importance. but you figure in terms of essentially setting aside the a level interview team will certainly get to those requirements. but right now it's all about intelligence and security. >> and, fran, in terms of options that interrogators have, there is a lot more options they have now before the suspect gets to the united states and starts to be processed in the judicial system. correct? >> that's right, anderson. they're not constrained by miranda or those sorts of things. they'll ask him, of course, khatallah does not have to answer them. but they will establish a relationship, and they'll work through the requirements as have been discussed. yes, first are there current threats. of course, the next sort of
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level of things that they'll want to know are were there co-conspirators and can he identify them and lead investigators, give them intelligence leads to where they may find other individuals who may have been involved in benghazi. >> i'm always interested why people actually talk. and robert, you have been in there. why does a suspect start to talk and reveal information that may not be in their best interests to do so? >> there is just really a spectrum of different reasons. i know is less than satisfactory, really, it just depends. to give you examples. in the post- 9/11 interview vacation, i and my partner had access to very notable al qaeda members. a few examples. some were motived by the uncertainty of the situations. others were motivated as they called it fatigue with the jihad life. but every human being is motivated by one or two main things that if tapped into effectively, can modify behavior.
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>> and fran, it's no accident that they have is the suspect on a ship. they very easily could have flown him to the united states. but they want that time, time to talk to him before they get to the u.s., correct? >> that's right, anderson. part of it is the interrogators will establish a relationship, a rapport so they can kind of establish a relationship of trust and get more information. but frankly, there is a legal reason, right. on a ship in the middle of the mediterranean, he doesn't have access to the u.s. legal system. he doesn't have access to a lawyer. and so they -- a lawyer can't on his behalf file for example a habeas claim to get him released or brought before a court. so they will keep him outside the jurisdiction of the united states as long as interrogators believe that they are getting valuable intelligence information. and they'll keep him there until they're satisfied with the attorney general's permission that they're getting valuable information. >> robert, what can you do on a
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ship before you bring somebody to the united states where miranda rights have to be involved that you can't do, you know, in a holding facility in the united states? i mean, it certainly raises lots of questions about what kind of techniques are they actually using on this person. are they using what in the bush administration are called enhanced administration which a lot of people refer to as torture, frequently. what can they do on board a ship that they can't do in the united states? >> the main thing is to get the subject, the detainee to a safe environment with a minimum of distractions. in this case, in likely international waters. the short answer to your question, there really isn't any difference technically or physically, but for from what i understand from colleagues who have been involved with some of these, it really is quite conducive to good interviews. >> it's fascinating. fran townsend, thank you. roberts mcfadden, great to have you on the program. interesting to hear what it's like inside that interrogation room. just ahead, more than 4400 troops died in iraq.
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the crisis is now threatening iraq is depressingly familiar. as dictator after dictator has fallen across the middle east, the countries they once ruled have descended into chaos. it's a pattern some experts predicted based on an uncomfortable fact. dictators by virtue of their sheer brutality tend to keep a tight lid on disorder. images might not be suitable for young viewers. >> reporter: you're looking at moammar gadhafi's final moments, taunted by rebel fighters after they had found him hiding near his hometown of sirt. soon after this video, libya's ruler of 42 years is dead, a gunshot to the head. october 20th, 2011. libya was in the midst of a civil war. but is libya any better off today than during this strong man's rule? >> these things never work. you can't decapitate one of
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these regimes and expect order to follow. %qaoshe.6ç;ú happened. >> reporter: gadhafi's death gave rise to even more sectarian violence. tens of thousands are now dead. cities like benghazi, where four americans were killed in 2012 during an attack on the u.s. diplomatic compound are caught in the chaos. without any organized opposition, nobody is in charge. >> libya broken up into tribal groups, islamic groups, sectarian groups. and we have what is open ended wound, a civil war that is going to continue for a very, very long time. >> reporter: nearly 30 years after he was elected president of egypt, hosni mubarak announced in february 2011 he would not seek reelection. driven away by arab spring protesters who thought egypt would be better off. but even after the muslim brotherhood's mohamed morsi became president, the secular violence continued. coptic christian churches were burned. the military took control and
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imposed what is still today an authoritarian government. the new government designated the muslim brotherhood a terrorist organization, sentencing hundreds of supporters to death. and it's only gotten worse in iraq since this moment in 2003. >> ladies and gentlemen, we got 'em. >> saddam hussein captured by the united states from a spider hole in tikrit. in facted head to toe, he is later sentenced to death. but the infighting among the sunnis and shiites didn't die with saddam hussein. a sectarian civil war soon followed, leaving nearly half a million people dead. with saddam hussein long gone, the shiites are still desperately trying to hold on to power and hold back sunni militants. as isis rolls towards baghdad, we're left wondering what really is best for these countries?
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randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> a lot to talk about with our friend fareed zakaria. dictators, people who have been dictators for decades in some cases overthrown, leaving power. and kind of an attempt at democracy that stumbles as it is right now here in iraq. >> anderson, if you look 15 years ago, the entire middle east from libya to tunisia to iraq to syria, you had secular dictatorships under this order, often supported by the super powers or foreign powers that whole structure of authority has collapsed. and what is interesting is into the vacuum have risen all these islamist groups. what that tells you is when order is threatened, when order breaks down, what people grasp is their oldest identities, she
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yar shia, sunni, arab, kurd. this is a tidal wave that is coming and will have this tumultuous period of transition for this region. >> it's so frustrating, especially for people who serve heard, who sacrificed body parts here and friends here and family members here. there was such opportunity in this country. this is a country with huge oil reserves, with the vast potential for wealth. it makes a lot of money. and yet we've seen this really through a failure of leadership by the prime minister, this failure to reach out in very basic ways and kind of share the wealth. >> absolutely true. and we made our share of mistakes, anderson. we reinforced sectarian identities. we disembowled the sunnis. we empowered the shia hard liners. but then maliki is principally to bear blame. people say we could have done more. we left too soon. but remember, anderson, if it
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took almost 200,000 foreign troops, mostly american, if it took general petraeus, if it took billions of dollars to get maliki to temporarily be nice to the sunnis, how long was that going to last anyway? what we're seeing is maliki's true colors. and he has revealed himself to be a sectarian thug, sad to say. it's tough to imagine how he can put humpty-dumpty back together again. >> so you don't see a scenario in which he maintains power and the country stays together? >> the only hope here is a new government, a government of national unity. and if it doesn't happen, there won't be an outright partition, partly because the sunnis end up with the part with no oil. so everyone will fight for the central government. but it will be a very unstable, long period, sort of like syria, with a lot of badlands and no-go zones in the middle where some very nasty people will take root. >> but at this point, does the u.s. really have that much influence over the events here? iran obviously is the major partner for the shia government.
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don't they have more control over what happens here, at least in terms of the government? >> iran has a lot of influence. that's part of what has been motivating maliki. and one of the reasons maliki didn't want to sign the status of forces agreement with america, which would have kept american troops in iraq in small numbers was the iranians told them they didn't want it. i heard that from several shia politicians in iraq who said this deal is never going to happen because iran doesn't want it. so the iranians do have influence. we could have some influence, particularly now. this is washington's moment of maximum leverage. because maliki needs the united states. he needs american military help. so this would be the moment for president obama and his team to try to extract the maximum they can. and what i would urge is that that maximum be maliki resign. a new government be shaped. perhaps maliki's party. look, there are ambitious politicians in iraq there is
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allawi. there is all kinds of people that could be reached out. to you try to come up with a new governing coalition. because this one has lost credibility. >> fareed zakaria, thanks very much for joining us. >> pleasure, anderson. i want to talk about what vets feel what is happening here. soldiers from fort hood particularly. they paid a big price here in iraq. more than 500 from fort hood died. tonight some of their fellow soldiers speak out about what they feel is going on here. jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america.
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american troops sacrificed so much for so long here in iraq are now like everybody else watching this country unravel. we wouldn't presume to speak for them what that feels like. the rest of us can't know because we weren't on the ground risking our lives day in and day out, watching friends die for the mission. more than 4400 americans died here. no u.s. military base lost more troops than fort hood in texas. that's where gary tuchman went to talk to iraq veterans. >> reporter: at vfw post 3892, just a short drive from the front gates of the u.s. army's fort hood, we meet van gilbreath, one of the people who helps run this post. over a game of pool, we start learning more about what changed his life forever. when did you serve in iraq?
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>> in '04 to '04. >> reporter: specialist gilbreath was in kuwait as the war began. he was about a abrams tank system mechanic and was part of the invasion of saddam hussein's iraq. he joined the army in 1999 and still serves in the national guard. >> seemed like it was all going to smooth out and iraq could continue on a nice path. >> reporter: it was of course anything but a nice path. more than 500 soldiers from fort hood, texas, were killed serving in iraq. ♪ more than any other u.s. military installation. about one out of every nine americans who died in iraq were deployed from this base. here at fort hood, feelings about what happened in iraq in the past vary. so do feelings about what should be done in the future. but in this community, the sacrificed so much, there is a common sentiment about the present, and that is profound disappointment. >> it's almost as if we wasted a lot of time. >> reporter: first sergeant richard phillips was a senior medic in baghdad in 2004 and
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2005. he served in the army for 24 years. >> giving it a good hard thought. did we accomplish anything? well, let's look at the situation right now. i don't think we did. >> reporter: specialist gilbreath, though, believes the situation is not a lost cause. that the iraqi government can still make a positive difference. >> and i think if they organize their troops correctly with the training that we have provided them, that they could overtake this situation without u.s. troops involved. >> reporter: but many soldiers at fort hood don't have that same level of faith. staff sergeant marshall burton is still active duty. he received a combat action badge after serving in iraq in 2005 and 2006. >> you know, we're the baddest force in the world so, of course we'll be able to make a difference. but that thing is deeper than u.s. army being there. it goes back to the bible, you know. >> reporter: he is not alone in thinking the u.s. military can't solve religious disputes that go back many centuries.
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>> before we went, i didn't think we should go, because not being a prognosticator, i probably could have said look, they've been living this way for 5,000 years. or however long it's been. how are we going to change it? >> reporter: specialist gilbreath says he would also like all u.s. troops sty out of iraq, but -- >> the iraqi can't control the situation, u.s. troops play have to go back in, i guess. i would hate to see that. >> reporter: at fort hood there is a strong and enduring sense of mission, even when there is disagreement about what the mission should be. gary tuchman, cnn, fort hood, texas. ♪ >> up next tonight, emotional testimony on capitol hill. a member of sergeant bowe bergdahl's platoon says he committed the ultimate betrayal and should face charges. to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor
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checking with susan hendricks. susan? >> anderson, an army specialist who served with sergeant bowe bergdahl said at a house hearing today that bergdahl committed the ultimate betrayal and should be charged with desertion. for his part, congressman gerry connolly says bergdahl deserves the benefit of the doubt, and judgment should be withheld until the facts are known. the california teen who stowed away in a plane's wheel well and survived the five and a half hour flight to hawaii is
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speaking out. in his first interview he said he was trying to see his mother in ethiopia and chose a plane that was heading west. world cup fans were detained after trying to get in without tickets, breaching fences, ♪ one of our roles here has always been to take away excess money from people who don't know what to do with it, who can't think of a better idea about how to spend their money. in the old days the mechanism for doing that was you'd throw it on a table. put that into the context of throwing away a bottle of seven-up in a club. we're slightly more honest about it. >> you're talking crass commercialism in the very best sense of the word. this is it. is it the cultural center of the country? we may not want to think it is, but is it? >> what is the rest of the