together. they say that tight family bond can be tough for investigators to break. >> if you have the small group among brothers cousins, very close friends, it makes it that more difficult tore a leak to get out or to penetrate that cell with an outsider. >> reporter: experts say the tightest bond of all may ultimately be beyond blood. it is the bond of extremist ideology the same one that drove the kouachi brothers the same that is likely to lead more to murder. jason carroll, cnn, miami. >> reporter: a crucial part of the investigation here not only for authorities, but in the world, getting inside the minds of these extremists and finding out how and why these brothers turned to terrorism. we talk a lot about influences when it comes to extremism. who influences recruits to radical lies. it stands to reason i suppose, that someone you know well someone you're related to can be sadly a likely candidate for

that. >> and someone you trust, you're right. jim sciutto, thanks so much. the next hour of cnn "newsroom" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good morning. i'm carol costello. thank you for joining me. we begin this hour with a failed 34r09 plot to attack the homeland and a would be terrorist in handcuffs. chris cornell, a 20-year-old man from the suburbs of cincinnati plachbd to travel to washington, d.c. then set off pipe bombs at the capitol and gun down lawmakers and stach as they tried to escape. this morning his father is blasting the fbi accusing the agency of setting up his son. i spoke with john cornell a short time ago and asked him how his family is doing. >> my wife is just totally heartbroken. i've gone from shock to

heartbroken to almost having feelings of anger, and i'll explain why. i know the fbi are saying they had an informant that christopher had supposedly made these statements on twitter. when you say informant, he's not an informant. what he was is a person that had criminal charges pending and is a snitch. he became a snitch for the fbi, and i'm telling you my son -- i'm not saying he's a saint. he's 20 years old, going on 16. he's a big kid. he's never been outside of cincinnati other than to wrestle at some wrestling tournaments when he was a kid. there's no way on the face of this earth that he plotted this by himself. there's no way he could have came up with this.

i know my son better than anyone. i believe that he met with this informant before the informant ever contacted the fbi. i believe this informant filled his head with a bunch of garbage. i believe he was tricked, tricked into correspondence afterwards. the informant supposedly came to my house and picked christopher up on a couple of occasions. he was probably wearing a wire. this guy, we never even really got a good look at him. like i said my son christopher is 20 years old going on 16. >> john cornell's son was arrested yesterday afternoon in the parking lot of a gun store near his home after he purchased semi automatic rifles and 600 rounds of ammunition. alexandra field joins us from outside of that gun shop with more. >> reporter: carol, after months of watching christopher cornell authorities made their arrest two miles from his home in the

parking lot of this gun shop. this is where they say he bought two weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. it was the final piece of evidence that they say led 24e78 to believe that his alleged talk about an attack wasn't just talk. an ohio man in custody for allegedly plotting an igs sis inspired attack. of fushls say christopher lee cornell was planning to detonate pipe bombs around the building and shooting people as they fled. the 20-year-old came to the fbi's attention several months ago for alarming social media posts talking about violent jihad. in an undercover operation cornell told an informant he had contacts overseas he had aligned himself with isis and believed lawmakers were his enemy. a criminal complaint says cornell did not think he would receive authorization to conduct a terrorist attack in the united states but wanted to wage jihad on his own writing i believe we should meet up and make our own group in alliance with the

islamic state here and plan operations ourselves. he researched the targeted government buildings and the construction of pipe bombs. wednesday cornell purchased two m-15s and 600 rounds of ammunition from this gun store in cincinnati before fbi agents arrested him in the parking lot. wkrc obtained this image of his arrest from a customer inside a nearby store. the gun store owner who had been cooperating with authorities described cornell's demeanor. >> there wasn't really anything about him that would have suggested he was involved in something like this. >> reporter: carol, law enforcement sources tell cnn because they were able to follow cornell for so many months as they did this investigation, lawmakers were never in any eminent danger. carol? >> alexandra field reporting. the fbi says christopher cornell under the name raheel ubaydah used social media to

plot violence with a co-con spear tore who ended up being an fbi informant. suspects like cornell using twitter has angered british prime minister david cameron. he'll urge president obama to take tougher stands against it. michelle kosinski cnn security and intelligence analyst robert bear and cnn social media expert samuel burke. michelle mr. cameron will try to get the president to pressure thighs americans companies. that's a tall order, isn't it? >> it absolutely is. it's a tall order in america to get certain amounts of information from these companies. they protect privacy and make a big deal of doing so. in britain the government can simply ask certain telecoms to turn over information and records when needed. by law they have to do that. i'm sure britain would love american companies who do business in britain or have

clients in britain to do the same. if those american companies were to do that, they would be braking privacy laws in america. right off the bat, that's really not going to happen. it did emerge just in the past year though that american companies like google and like facebook do comply with nsa schemes that are private to turn over certain information when it's asked for. it's not as if the nsa has direct access to a giant pool of information from these companies, but they do comply with it. that's all kept very secret though. so it's not as if there's a lot of detail out there or that these companies themselves are even talking about it. the other issue is encryption. even with court orders when companies turn over information to law enforcement, often it's encrypted form and law enforcement has had off the time get together the bottom of that. the british would like that encryption to also be curtailed. again, it's going to be very

difficult to do this. it's this big battle between privacy and law enforcement needs, carol. >> and i want to pose the next question to samuel then. we hear all the time that extremists get ideas to become -- can be radicalized through social media. what does facebook and twitter do to prevent that? >> the problem is they have this huge pool to look at. it's becoming very difficult for them to look at that because they have so many use irs. literally over a billion users in some cases. the other thing we have to think about is because of what the nsa does a lot of technology companies are trying to make it so that even if the gofrlt comes to them and says we have a warrant, we can look at this they're making it so the information isn't there anymore, so it disappears after a certain amount of time or so it's there but only the user themselves can decrypt that information, not them.

>> i'll pose this question to robert bare. they slammed facebook for creating a safe haven for terrorists. is that fair? >> it's something of a safe haven. but look at it from the intelligence officer's perspective. if british intelligence gchq couldn't monitor facebook and twitter accounts a lot of these people would come under the radar. most cases in this country and britain are broken thanks to monitoring these social media sites. if you simply close these people down they're going to find other ways to communicate and you'd loose sight of them. if the cow of chi brothers had been up on twitter describing what they were going to do the french would have caught them. the fact s they went off social media. they were able to communicate and that's how the attack occurred without being stopped in advance. >> michelle the british prime minister is saying sometimes

facebook and twitter doesn't share information. you hear from samuel why. he's even talking about possibly banning facebook and twitter if they don't turn over pert meant information. >> there is that argument on the other side that there are certain restrictions in place that if pedophiles or child pornography, if that's flagged, that that can be stopped. it's not like there's something that similar that goes into an alert for terrorist activity. it's extremely difficult to monitor. it's free speech also. there was a case about that recently if someone is saying something that looks like it's leading to violence well that could be considered freedom of expression up and to a point. who is really to determine that? so when you start digging in a little bit more and encroaching more on privacy, you're opening up a whole other can of worms as to how someone is going to interpret what someone said. this is going to be an argument that goes on for a very long

time. it's hard to imagine that david cameron is going to get what he wants. it is possible that the u.s. will agree to work more closely with british law enforcement and ask these companies for information and maybe make a more clear case, put on a little bit more pressure that this information case by case is critical and important and could prevent violence on an imminent basis. >> i see samuel nodding his head. >> two different sides going on. on the one hand the governments want us to store more information, want the companies to store information. on the other hand people like me reporting on cyber security hear from the cyber experts, we go on cnn and tell people we should start moving to new forms of communication where everything is deleted, that way we don't see hacks like sony. imagine if those e-mails from sony had all been deleted once they were sent we had this erasable internet maybe one day and if somebody tried to hack you, there would be no information to be hacked.

you have these two conflicting interests going on in cyber security experts really pushing for that so-called irascible internet. >> i hear what you say, bob,. at what point does it become dangerous? >> i don't think it's dangerous. isis has moved to mobile wi-fi. they simply drive along the road, take a shot satellite shot download their message on the internet. 40 minutes later they took it off. there's nothing that national security agency or gchg can do about it. we can talk about going after these big sites, it's a drop in the bucket and these people are very sophisticated and they can manipulate the airwaves and get around our surveillance. there are black holes that we just can't see into. >> all right. i have to leave it there. thanks to all of you, michelle kosinski samuel burke, bob

baer. still to come french investigators say they have new leads emerging from the days before the deadly siege on that kosher grocery store. cnn's jim sciutto is in paris. >> reporter: carol, the more investigators look the more the leads take them outside of france to other countries in europe the middle east syria, yemen. we'll have more after this break. if you don't think beat con men at their own game when you think aarp, you don't know "aarp." the aarp fraud watch network helps everyone protect themselves and their families against scams and identity theft. find more real possibilities at aarp.org/possibilities. when the flu hits, it's a really big deal. the aches. the chills. the fever. an even bigger deal? everything you miss out on... family pizza night. the big game.

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in france police are gaining new insights into the final days of one of the terrorists. jim sciutto is in paris this morning. this investigation is huge. >> reporter: no question carol. the more they look the probe keeps expanding, not just beyond paris but into europe, into the middle east. today add belgium to the list of countries under the microscope. federal prosecutors tell us a man is under arrest in connection with arms trafficking and he could have ties to the killer inside that kosher grocery store. he recently bought a car from that terrorist's girlfriend. secretary of state john kerry will arrive in paris later today and will meet with the french president. tomorrow kerry, the highest ranking u.s. official to visit france since the attacks. there are funerals for two more victims today, both killed here at the "charlie hebdo" offices, one a cartoonist the second a police officer who was providing security for the staff of the

magazine. we want to focus more on the investigation and we have cnn's international correspondent frederik pleitgen. the more investigators look at this you hear this and watch this web expanding beyond france belgium today and others. how far have raters traced this so far? >> reporter: they seem to be trying to follow the trace of the money and the weapons as well. if we go and try to create a timeline of what seems to have happened it seems amedy coulibaly seems to have gone to the border between france and belgium, taken out a loan for $7,000 and gone across the order to charleroi. on tuesday he acquired at least two weapons there. then he seems to have gone back to paris. sometime before the attack

apparently on new year's day, he went down with hyatt boumediene down to mad drin. there was a third person she took the flight to istanbul he went back to paris and perpetrated those attacks. we do not know whether the third person that they had with them in madrid might be the man that we saw on that surveillance video at istanbul airport when she arrived there or whether or not it might be this fourth suspect that investigators are looking for, some believe that a man linked to some scooter keys that were found in coulibaly's apartment might be a man who might have driven him to the kosher supermarket when he perpetrated the attacks. this is spanning more and more countries and getion more and more complicated, this web of jihadists that perpetrated these attacks. >> reporter: it's interesting, fred the accused arms seller there turned himself in gives the impression that he did not know what the attackers were

going to do with those weapons, turning himself after the "charlie hebdo" attacks. >> reporter: that's certainly possible. but from some media reports that i'm reading, it appears that this man is a known arms dealer. he seems to sell arms on the black market possibly to mafia organizations. belgium has a big black market forearms. he apparently and this is according to media reports again, got quite afraid when he found out that couple bali was a jihadist and fearing for his own life as well but also learned of the attacks and turned himself in right afterward. did he know who he was selling the arms to did he know what cowell bali had planned? we certainly don't know. he certainly went to the authorities himself, obviously at some point realizing that he was part of a very very large investigation into arguably the worst terror attack in france's modern day history. >> reporter: selling arms

regardless for the reason bad enough. thanks very much, frederik pleitgen. carol, as you look at, this you had a lot of travel going on in the lead-up to this attack. it seems people involved in this plat were making preparations to get out of dodge, get out of the country before the attack was under way so they could make it away from france possibly into syria and elsewhere before authorities could track them down. >> jim sciutto, we'll check back with you in minutes. i'll be right back.being my hero and my dad. military families are thankful for many things. the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. our world-class service earned usaa the top spot in a study of the most recommended large companies in america. if you're current or former military, or their family, see if you're eligible to get an auto insurance quote. ♪♪ thanks. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] fedex® has solutions to enable global commerce that can help your company grow steadily and quickly. great job. (mandarin)

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i have an update now on this morning's protest that snarled the morning commute in boston. two stretches of i-93 which go

through the heart of the hub is back open but it was closed for hours this morning because dozens of people chanting "black lives matter" were in the middle of the roadway. the protesters many chained to barrels filled with concrete are part of the movement calling attention to recent police killings of unarmed african-american suspects. i spoke with detective daniel richard of the massachusetts state police this last hour about the mess this created during rush hour. >> the individuals that we dealt with this morning unloaded heavy barrels into the roadway attach attached themselves to the barrels and also attached themselves to each other across the highway, bringing traffic to a standstill. >> did they chain themselves together? >> i'm not exactly sure how they -- what they attached themselves with. i believe it may have been zip ties. however, the investigation will prove out exactly how they

attached themselves. it was quite an effort to get them separated and get them off the highway. as a matter of fact we just got word that the last protesters was taken from the northbound side in milton. >> can you tell me a little bit about the efforts to remove them? >> the efforts to remove them was a coordinated effort between the massachusetts state police our local partners in law enforcement and the fire departments, special equipment had to be brought in in order to get the protesters out safely from the barrels they had attached themselves to and the different attachment devices that they were utilizing out in the roadway. it took quite some time to get through there and get a safe resolution to this incident where nobody no rescuers or protesters were injured. >> were there arrests, sir? >> there were arrests. currently yes have 17 arrests

out of the medford scene and between six and eight out of milton. the numbers are not totally confirmed yet, but those people have been arrested and will be arraigned later today. >> it's one thing to peacefully protest, but this is another thing, isn't it? >> it certainly is. it is a protest that endangers not only the protesters it endangers the thousands of people that use that roadway to come to work or to enter into the city of boston major thoroughfare. public safety is our major concern, and we were able to alleviate this particular problem in a safe manner where there were no injuries. >> lieutenant daniel richard, thanks. still to come pundits say it could be the democrat's next big issue. expanding paid leave to millions who do not have it. president obama expected to ask

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good morning, i'm carol costello. thank you so much for joining me. a worker's right, not a privilege? that's the idea behind president

obama's renewed push to expand paid sick days and family leave to u.s. employees who don't have it. the healthy families act would apply to about 40% of the private sector workforce. that's more than 40 million people. it would require companies to offer seven paid sick days and it offers $2.2 billion to help states and cities develop paid family leave programs. the president is also expected to sign a memorandum granting six weeks of paid leave to federal employees to care for a new child or sick family members. in an interview with cnn, president obama senior adviser valerie jarrett talked about a potential showdown with congress over the issue. >> do you anticipate any pushback from congress on the president signing the presidential memorandum on this initiative? >> i think clearly it's well within his authority to sign the presidential memorandum. i think what we would really call on them is to recognize the fact that with these changing demographics in the workplace, if our u.s. employers want to be

globally competitive they're going to have to offer the kind of benefits that will allow them to compete for, to attract and retain the best talent. >> so let's talk about this idea. cnn political commentator and republican strategist tara set meyer is with me and cnn political commentator and democratic strategist donna brazile is here as well. welcome to both of you. >> happy new year. >> tara is paid sick leave a right or a privilege? >> this is not a right. it's a privilege. when we start calling everything a right, it diminishes what are god given rights like right to religion and things like that. this is another political ploy. who doesn't want paid sick leave? everybody wants it. that sounds great. the practicality of applying it in real life has real life consequences for small businesses and employers. who is going to pay for this? most employers, major companies anyway they have some type of

sick leave policy already. you don't need the government coming in and micromanaging what our businesses do particularly small businesses who are already drowning under almost $2 trillion worth of federal regulations already, not counting obamacare and what that's doing to small businesses. it's choking the lifeblood out of small businesses every time the government puts on another regulation like this. this is not the way to do it. let the free market decide. >> donna, would it choke the lifeblood out of small business owners? they would have a problem paying sick leave. >> we're talking about employers that hire 11 or more people. look this is a moral, this is a moral issue. earned paid sick leave is the right thing to do. we live in a competitive global society, and the united states is the only nation in the world that does not offer this to their employees. i think it's a more imperative that we do it. look just this past week my

oldest sister had to take time out of her day because her employer offers earned paid sick leave to take care of her grandchild because her daughter didn't have paid sick leave. this is important, and i don't see why we're focused on who it will hurt rather than the millions of americans who will benefit when someone is sick or when someone is taking time out to give birth to their child. >> it is difficult, tara for who have to take care of sick children to take off days and know they're not going to be paid. usually what moms do they take off when they're healthy and go to work sick. >> again, this is an example where a well-intentioned policy prescription the results don't bear out the well intentions. what happens here is that businesses have to either cut them if it's two employees, it has to be paid for. these things will just come out of thin air. in supply and demand economics and businesses you have to pay

for the increased cost. if you're paying for workers who are not putting out, that's at a cost to the business. >> tara you're earning this. noble is giving this to you. you're earning this as part of working, and this is something that employees -- employers are offering to their employees as an incentive to work at their companies. i think -- >> but many employers already do this. >> of course. >> many employers already do this. it's up to what's the health of their business and business owners should be able to decide what's best for their workers, not the government forcing them. in states like new jersey, massachusetts, california that have already instituted this they are the least friendly business states. >> that is not true. you have not -- >> that is absolutely true. >> not true tara. >> yes, it is. >> there's no evidence that businesses are going to shut their doors -- every time the republicans and some people who oppose progress whether it's paid sick leave, family medical leave, you constantly say, oh

the jobs are going to depart just like with the health care initiative. the jobs that's not true. we're just trying to have programs in the 21st century that enable workers to be able to earn a living take care of their families. if something, god for bit, something happens, they won't lose their job because they're taking care of their families. there's nothing immoral or wrong about that. >> donna, most employers -- again, most employers. >> reporter: do this. to say we're the only country in the civilized world that don't do this -- >> paid maternity leave? paid maternity leave? come on. >> there are by products of that that make it more difficult for women because then employers don't want to hire women because they'll be forced to brings on this mandate. >> that's a form of discrimination as you well know. >> how about you give employers incentives to expand the businesses give them tax breaks to make it better instead of a

regulatory burden, up to $2 trillion. >> we're going to have to leave it there. we'll watch and see what happens. >> if you want to be competitive in the 21st century, you better start looking like the 21st century. >> tara and donna, thanks so much. i appreciate it. still to come in the "newsroom," pope francis weighs in on the paris terror attack also getting a rousing welcome from cheering crowds in the philippines. we'll take you to manila next. huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know you that former pro football player ickey woods will celebrate almost anything? unh-uh.

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what else did the pope say, john? >> reporter: the pope had a lot to say actually. this was a 50-minute inflight press conference. this is one of the unique features of this papacy. we didn't use to get this kind of access to a pontiff. these used to be carefully choreographed and very carefully scripted affairs. france is a more let it all hang out pope. he came back and spent almost an hour with us. we heard from him in the "charlie hebdo" attacks in paris where he said nothing can justify violence. at the same time he said there are limits to free speech and if you deliberately insult the religious convictions of somebody else you shouldn't necessarily be surprised if they lash out. he used this home-spun analogy, carol. he said i don't care if the guy is my best friend if he insults my mom, i'm going to punch him in the nose. that was his analogy. we also heard from him on climate change saying that he believes that the major part of

damage to the environment the dramatic change to the environment is because of human activities. he says human beings have the tendency to slap nature around and it needs to stop. we heard from him on his own personal safety. he said he knows there are threats out there but he has a healthy obliviousness to it all. finally, he revealed when he comes to united states in september, he plans to declare a new american saint. un para sera an 18th century helped build up the faith. a potpourri of insight and commentary from pope francis today. >> there was a touching -- a charming moment. didn't the pope's hat blow off at one point in the philippines. >> when he arrived in manila it was a somewhat blustery

afternoon when the papal plane touched down from sri lanka. you see the video there. as we all know about pope francis by now, he's not the kind of guy to let things like that get in his way. you see he just sort of shrugged it off and continued down the staircase. of course, his humanity and ability to react in situations like that like an ordinary person would, is obviously part of this pope's charm. that charm, carol, is going to be on display in a phenomenal fashion this week in the philippines. this is one of the most intensely catholic cultures on earth. when pope francis celebrates the final mass on sunday some predictions say he could surpass pope john paul ii's all-time record for attendance set here in the philippines, 5 million people for john paul in 1995. some people think we can see more than 6 million for pope francis this time around carol. >> i wouldn't be surprised. john allen, thanks for your insight. i appreciate it.

french officials are on the hunt for a new suspect in the paris terror al attacks. what does he know and was he involved in the brutal massacre. plus new information about whether the kouachi brothers may have been secretly communicating with terrorists before the attack.s not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. shrimp? who are you calling a shrimp? that, my friend, is a big shrimp. it's red lobster's big shrimp festival. i get to pick my perfect pair from six creations for just $15.99. so open wide for crispy jumbo tempura shrimp with soy ginger sauce, and make room for creamy shrimp scampi linguini. yeah, we're gonna need a bigger fork. unless i eat those spicy sriracha grilled shrimp right off the skewer. don't judge me. join me. but hurry, because the big shrimp festival ends soon. sensitive bladder? try new always discreet up to 40% thinner, for superior comfort. absorbs 2x more than you may need.

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at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. welcome back. i'm jim sciutto in paris. right now intelligence officials

are trying to track down a new suspect in the brutal "charlie hebdo" massacre which took place just behind me. according to a new report the man is suspected of driving amedy coulibaly to the kosher supermarket where he e gunned down four people. meanwhile, as al qaeda in the arabian peninsula claims responsibility for last week's rampage here many people are asking whether officials may have missed critical red flags. i want to bring in cnn's pentagon correspondent barbara starr. the question seems to be how big were those missed red flags, if there were any missed by authorities in the runup to this. >> reporter: i think that's exactly right. intelligence services around the world, especially the french and the united states are trying to do just that figure out what they missed. al qaeda in yemen's video claim responsibility for the attack in paris raises significant concern far beyond france cnn has learned. u.s. and french intelligence

services are urgently working to determine if al qaeda in yemen, aqap secretly communicated with the co-after chi brothers after one or both of them returned from yemen in 2011. if that communication happened, it was so secret it wasn't detected despite the vast eavesdropping capabilities of the u.s. and that means the number one al qaeda terrorist organization targeting the u.s. and threatening to bomb aircraft can plot and plan without the u.s. knowing about it. >> aqap is the most dangerous affiliate associated with aq corps in terms of external plotting outside of their region where they're located. >> reporter: it remains possible the paris attackers had no direct orders from aqap. but the u.s. believes al qaeda in yemen is now using advanced encryption technology as just

one method to keep their operations secret from u.s. spying. that alone gives aqap huge room to maneuver. >> it could have receiveded parts of europe and other parts of the world who have been trained and instructed to attack when they feel appropriate or they could have an ongoing cadre of individuals that come in and out of yemen and set them off at a time of aqap's choosing. >> reporter: the u.s. calculates aqap was already on the upswing in power for many reasons. senior leaders like nasr wall hair shea and al asiri are all still very much in charge. its safe haven areas are large and secure. it's continuing to recruit foreign fighters all of this raising questions about whether u.s. drone attacks in recent years have even made a dent in the group. >> no one expect pd drones to

have suffocated aqap and put it out of business. >> reporter: the bottom line intelligence sources are most worried, they need to get an answer to this question because they need to figure out if al qaeda in yemen has maybe even more attacks planned. jim? >> reporter: barbara, aqap considered the most or one of the most severe threats to the u.s. homeland as well. carol, we think of the nsa as all seeing. this is an alarming possible that one of those most threatening groups to the u.s. would have a way around that surveillance. >> jim, thank you so much. i want to focus now more on the missed opportunities to prevent the attacks on the offices of "charlie hebdo." back in 2005 cherif kouachi was arrested as he prepared to commit violent jihad. he was then convicted and given a sentence of ten years in prison but he only served three years before he was released. kouachi seemingly fell off the

radar for french intelligence only to be seen again when he and his brother said committed one of the worst terror attacks france has ever experienced. let's talk about this. i'm joined by mark houser a university editor at robert morris university. he med cherif kouachi's lawyer while report on counterterrorism in europe back in 2005. welcome. >> thanks form having me on the show carol. >> thanks for being here. we appreciate it. at the time you wrote you were surprised that kouachi was let out of prison for only three years. why did french authorities decide to do that? >> well when i visited france and talked to authorities there in 2005 kuch chi had just been arrested and was going to be charged. i talked to france's one of its two top terrorism judges. judge riccard told me he didn't believe france had severe criminal sentences for terrorists. he was aware of this and so were

the french at the time. many of the terrorists i wrote about them were also out. not just cherif kouachi, but also begal that we heard about, also the imam that radicalized kouachi. he was a nursing student at the hospital where the victims of the "charlie hebdo" were brought. >> you also route that kouachi's lawyer convinced authorities, the judge, that kouachi had changed his mind about becoming a jihadist. is that true? >> i don't know that he convinced them of that. he argued that certainly. they convicted kouachi, though. it's simply as i said, the sentences in europe once the investigators have broken up a ring this pattern seems to continue to this day sadly. the sentences are not very long and prisoners are eligible for early release or house arrest. i just read about another algerian convicted terrorist in

france said harif who stole a car and fled and they know he's in syria now. members of the hoff stad group in the netherlands that were linked to the murder of theo van go, the ville filmmaker, i wrote about those two. they're released other than van gogh's killer. he has a life sentence. even in spain a man known as ab duda da convicted for helping our 9/11 plotters and also the madrid bombing plotters he's been released, too. i think it was 2013. i'm not sure where he is now. >> why the light sentences? did they not take these convictions seriously? >> it's hard to say. they certainly do take the threat of terrorism seriously. i've been told that -- i was told that when i was there many years ago, and i'm sure that's still the case. when i talked to a spanish prosecutor who was working on the 3/11 case he pointed out to me that the first person ever arrested and convicted of islamic terrorism in spain, he

got an appeal -- got out on appeal that is and the next thing we know the police had his apartment surrounded. he was one of the plotters of the madrid bombings. they only identified him by his dna because they blew themselves up. the focus in europe seems to be on investigating and less on strict or long sentences that we're more accustomed to here. >> that's a shame. mark houser thanks for your insight. appreciate it. thank you for joining me today. i'm carol cos stellatell low. "@this hour" with burma and michaela after a blake. with t-mobile and iphone 6 you can make wi-fi calls beyond the reach of cellular networks.tell low. "@this hour" with burma and michaela after a blake. don what's up? low. "@this hour" with burma and michaela after a blake. low. "@this hour" with burma and michaela after a blake. ow. "@this hour" with burma and michaela after a blake. . "@this hour" with burma and michaela after a blake. lo. "@this hour" with burma and michaela after a blake. a photo? you can even make calls, way over here. talk and text over wi-fi, with wi-fi calling on iphone 6. only from t-mobile.

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old arrested after allegedly wanting to set up an isis-like cell and attack the u.s. capitol? who is he and how was he caught? following the tangled trail after the paris terror attack. we'll take a look at who police are looking for now and what clues they have uncovered. a whole lot of preparations go into a papal visit, but caging of children like animals? reports that little ones were rounded up in an effort to clean up the streets. we'll speak to a missionary who is there trying to help.