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tv   Wolf  CNN  July 29, 2015 10:00am-11:01am PDT

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p.m. in only will don, 8:00 p.m. in jerusalem. wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks for joining us. we begin with an arrest announced today here in the united states connected to isis. a lackawanna new york man just outside of buffalo has been arrested and charged with attempting to provide material support to resources -- and resources to isis. the man is also accused of pledging the support to the isis leadership including abu bakr al baghdadi. let's get details on who this man is and what he's accused of doing. evan perez has been going through the documents and they've released a lot of documents in connection with this arrest. >> they've had an eye on arafat nagi, 44 years old, for some time. he travelled two separate times according to the fbi and the justice department two separate
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times to turkey in order, according to them, to join isis. now, the first visit was in october, 2012, he turned back because of illness. in july of 2014 last year he also went there and, again, he was planning according to the fbi to join isis but then turned back because he felt he was being followed by turkish intelligence. according to the fbi, he espoused violent jihad to people in the community there who alerted the fbi and he said he pledged allegiance to the head of isis abu bakr al baghdadi. we have a list of a few things he bought ahead of his trips to turkey on ebay. he bought body armor, night vision goggles, camouflage clothing and shahad da flag the black flag very common with jihadi followers, as you know. right now he's now facing 50 years in prison. >> 5-0. >> 50 if he is found guilty of
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this. the fbi says -- we often hear criticism that these cases seem to be people who are not all together there, that perhaps this is entrapment but this guy seemed according -- everything in this document is true you know he seemed very determined to try to reach syria to join isis. >> and they decided to move in and arrest him now because they think some sort of actual terrorist plot was about to take place. because they have been watching them as you point out for a few years. >> they had been watching him for at least a year but they decided finally today to go to arrest him because they felt they'd watched enough and had enough to bring charges and they just wanted to make sure that he didn't do something because he seemed to be getting more and more militant. >> sort of underscores what james comey, the fbi director told me last week. isis is a bigger terror threat
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to the u.s. homeland than al qaeda. >> we see that everyday. >> we see these arrests going on. thanks very much evan. a lot going on we'll continue to follow that story. there's also breaking news out of afghanistan right now. the government says the taliban leader mullah mohammed omar is dead and that he died more than two years ago. the reclusive leaders' death has been rumored but the taliban dismissed the rumors. our senior international correspondent nick paton walsh is joining with us developments. nick, what have you learned? >> for the first time, the afghan presidential palace is saying he died of 2013 of an unknown illness and officials saying it may have occurred in a hospital. importantly, they're saying this occurred in the southern city of karachi. let's pause and remember who mullah omar was. this is a new departure in what the afghan government is willing
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to say. this is man that let the insurgency in afghanistan, america's longest war when they were there. he's behind the insurgency that killed over 2,000 american soldiers. a real also the man i can figure. so his death a seismic moment in afghanistan itself. what we have been hearing all day have been confusing report initially emerging ahead of a press conference thought to be announced in the death that never happened, that afghan intelligence officials leaking more details and then finally the presidential palace confirming it. the real suspension here is that this announce system so close to a new round of peace talks the taliban are having with the afghan government perhaps somebody has been trying to rock the boat by making this announcement ahead of those talks to undermine the taliban, to make them have to answer the question well who's really in charge. wolf? >> and so the notion that it's taken more than two years to confirm his death, why did it
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take so long. what's the analysis? >> he's always been a reclusive figure but if he was in pakistan there will be many questions being asked about the parallels with bin laden, was he getting assistance from pakistani intelligence? i spoke to one member of the isi, pakistan intelligence sources and he laughed off the notion that that mullah omar was dead. so a confusing picture here but i think also, too, he'd become reclusive perhaps because of his state of health. 55 is the age he said to have died. he's close to 60. life expectancy for many afghan males. he was injured fighting the soviets two decades ago so his health frail. and i think the taliban, their leadership senior increasingly under pressure from isis who are moving into afghanistan challenging the taliban's writ of authority in certain areas. at some point they have been challenging plaul omar to prove he's alive. that may be much harder if the taliban confirm he is dead but
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the insurgencies change so much in afghanistan since mullah omar began fighting the americans in 2001 barely recognizable much younger, much more radical and potentially looking towards isis now to lead them forward. a very dangerous time indeed for this man to fall off a map if that is the case. particularly with these peace talks looming now. wolf? >> nick paton walsh reporting for us thank you. here in washington the secretary of state john kerry's back up on capitol hill today once again making his pitch to congress to support the iran nuclear deal. he's joined by the secretaries of defense and energy as well as the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. congress is in the midst of its 60-day review period where it could approve or kill the deal but the secretary john kerry is encountering some serious skepticism once again. is. >> do you want to go right back to where they were when they had 19,000 centrifuges, 12,000 kilograms of material? enough for 10 to 12 the bombs. they've already mastered the
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fuel psych sol don't be looking 15 years down the road. right now they have this ability. and we're stopping that. we're taking that away from them and providing a lifetime -- >> the senator's time has expired. how'd that north korean deal work out for you. senator mccaskell? >> well senator i can give you the complete -- >> senator mccaskell is -- your time has expired. senator mccaskell. >> i didn't cut that deal. >> john kerry's telling john mccain, the chairman of the arms services committee didn't work out for me i didn't cut the deal. you heard senator mccain say "how did that north korea deal work out." tough exchange. barbara, we're hearing for the first time on this sensitive issue since the agreement was signed from the chairman the outgoing chairman of the joint chiefs general mar tip dempsey as well as ash carter the secretary of defense. what was their perspective on
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this agreement. >> well the sparks continue to fly through most of the hearing, wolf. i have to tell you is dempsey who is scheduled to leave office in the coming weeks, a regularly-scheduled retirement not taking his eye off of his usual candor. the chairman was asked very bluntly about his views, his military views about taking sanctions off even if the iranians comply with the agreement. i want you to listen to this exchange this is classic marty dempsey saying what he thinks. >> just to be clear, when you came before the committee then you said under no circumstances should we relieve pressure on iran on those issues. so was it your military recommendation that we not agree to lifting of those sanctions? >> yes. and i used the phrase "as long as possible."
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and then that was the point at which the negotiation continued. but, yes, that was my military advice. >> what you are hearing there in very measured tones is the chairman of the joint chiefs saying his military advice was overridden. now, this does happen there are political judgments that any administration makes after they ask for the best military advice from a chairman of the joint chiefs. but this is perhaps the most blunt military assessment we have seen to date on all of this and one of the points of contention in the hearing. still a lot of talk about what site agreement, what confidential agreement iran may have made with the international atomic energy agency about their potential military side of their program agreements that the u.s. may not get to see a full text, a full version of. wolf? >> and the secretary of defense, ash carter barbara, he didn't raise a lot of hope that this deem would moderate iran's
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position as a -- what the u.s. calls a state sponsor of terror. he wasn't very upbeat that iran's attitude in this area could change. >> that's right, the pentagon has said "malign activities of iran" basically an all-encompassing phrase its efforts to use proxy such as hamas and hezbollah and all of iran's activities that iran want to see them abandoned from the nuclear agreement. i think it is very fair to say that at the pentagon the top leadership watching very closely doesn't see a loatht of change in iran's behavior yet and it goes back to general dempsey. if you don't see a change in iran's behavior you just to watch them all the more carefully. he's talked about watching them more closely and very much the need to keep u.s. forces in the region to deal with all of it if it comes to that wolf. >> all right, thanks very much
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barbara starr watching this important story over at the pent gop. now we'll have much more ahead on the iran deal. i'll speak live with the chairman of the house foreign affairs committee, congressman ed royce. he's standing by as well as the ranking member of the house intelligence committee congressman adam schiff he's standing by as well. other news we're following, including a mystery. debris found off the coast of africa. authorities now saying it's way too soon to say whether it came from that missing malaysia airlines flight 370. we'll update you on what we do know. what do a nascar® driver... a comedian... and a professional golfer have in common? we talked to our doctors about treatment with xarelto®. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® has also been proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. i tried warfarin before, but the blood testing routine and dietary restrictions had me off my game. not this time. not with xarelto®.
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the indian ocean off the coast of reunion island east of madagascar is being examined at this hour. french investigators are trying to determine if it might be related to malaysia airlines flight 370. the airliner disappeared more than a year after after taking
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off from kuala lumpur malaysia airlines bound-- malaysia bound for beijing. david mckenzie is joining us from south africa as well as mary schiavo. first of all, david, what are french authorities, these aviation experts saying? do they suspect it is part of a wing from the aircraft? >> will they do suspect, of course, that it is part of a wing of an aircraft wolf and they say it's way too early to speculate whether this is part of mh-370. but it's certainly intriguing this part of an aircraft washed up on the shore in la reunion, a french territory. it's a sizable piece of an aircraft. it's somewhat weather beaten. it's been some time in the ocean and they are trying to figure out where it came from.
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they've alerted bea, the french very well respected officials in france to investigate it's unclear whether it will be staying in la reunion or stay for investigations in france. but they're saying it's too early to tell but they want to know where this piece of a plane came from and whether it has any link to mh-370. wolf? >> do we know david, if there were other aircraft that crashed or disappeared in that part of the ocean in recent years? it could be a piece of a plane from another disaster right? >> well, certainly with such a sizable piece of wing what seems to be a larger plane, if it is such and that's what they're speculating, it certainly would be something of a significant plane crash we would know about. it would be something that wasn't reported. now at least two crashes come to mind in that genre john to me
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one was some years ago in 2009 a large passenger jet kratchs s crashed off the comortars island west of la reunion island. then much earlier in '95, the famous hijacking of an ethiopian airlines plane which crashed just north of the grand co-mortars. they'll see whether they can receive serial numbers on this part of a wing or any other distinguishing markings. boeing we reached out to them, they're saying they're not commenting at this point. they will say their ultimate aim of mh-370 is to find out what happened to it. >> let me get analysis from mary schiavo. how long will it take experts to determine if this is part of the wing from mh-370.
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>> well boeing has three ways to do this. one, there will be part-specific numbers, like serial numbers on other things but they're part manufacturing numbers on the inside and will be on the inside of this piece of the plane. two, the 777 has unique flap assembly parts that will be unique in size and shape to the 777 and boeing will -- the boeing 777 engineers will know this right away because the size will be unique. the inboard flap is a two-part system. this looks like part of that inboard flap system, the outboard -- the closer to the tip of the wing is a one piece. to me looking at the pictures -- and this is a big leap -- but it looks like it looks like it might have had a repair. some kind of patch or repair. the rivets look slightly different but it could have been in the water far long time and the rivets look different from
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wear and tear. if it's had a repair, that repair will be in the maintenance records if it is 370, it would be in the maintenance records of that plane so they have three ways where they could look rather readily to determine if it could be from 370. >> and theoretically, the currents could have moved a wing like that from that wreckage all the way closer to africa away from closer towards australia. do the currents move that direction? >> yes, they do actually. and it depends. there are a couple different -- well they call them gyres but there are a couple different sort of circumstance lotion motion pattern waves and one of them just a little further west of australia. that particular current pattern would take it to where this is. i've worked on crashes where parts have moved hundreds if thousands of miles and remember the japan tsunami part and pieces of debris from the tsunami in japan made it to the
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western shores of the united states. it's possible but boeing is the key. boeing will be able to identify this readily. >> we should know fairly soon whether or not it's wreckage from mh-370. thanks to you and david mckenzie as well. we'll get back to the iran nuclear deal a highly contentious issue. we'll get both sides weighing in on what's going on and what's next. we'll be right back. listen up... i'm reworking the menu. mayo, corn dogs... you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein... and 26 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in.
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as we mentioned, the secretary of state john kerry is up on capitol hill once again today presenting his case for approving the iran nuclear deal. it's his second day of testifying before various committees in congress. democratic representative and ranking member of the house permanent select committee on intelligence adam schiff, is joung us right now.
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he's been listening to kerry's arguments, the other arguments pro and con over several days joining us from capitol hill once again. congressman, thanks very much are you yet on board. do you support this nuclear deal with iran? >> wolf i still haven't made a decision yet. there's still some more documents in the intelligence committee i want to go through and a few more conversations that i want to have. but i'm getting fairly close. as i work my way through the issues it comes down to a couple things. i think the snapback sanctions are actually a pretty effective mechanism. i think the inspections are fairly robust although there is a problem with gaining access to military sites that still troubles me. but the biggest concern i have over the agreement is over its duration. what happens after eight to ten years when they have a fairly robust enrichment capability? and what i'm weighing that against, wolf which is the other challenge here for the other side of this argument what is the alternative and how will
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that be better than the agreement. that's how i come down with wrestling with those two questions, the short duration of the agreement weighed against the alternative agreement and what it looks like. >> so it sounds to me, correct me if i'm wrong, congressman, you're leaning towards supporting this deal? >> well i don't want to express a lean to at this point. i still want to go through my final due diligence on it but i want to let this drag out. i know i'm going to have excess to what will change the calculus but what are the practical realities of a congressional vote against this deal. what would then take shape? what would iran do what would russia and china do. is it plausible to envision something that comes out better than the agreement? i haven't reached a final conclusion but that's what i'm trying to weigh. >> are you convinced as
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officials in the administration appear to me that the tens of billions of dollars in iran will get in lifted sanctions, they'll have access to more money than that they're going to primarily use this money to help develop iran's economy back home instead of supporting international terrorism. that's the argument you hear privately from administration officials. >> wolf i would say they'll use the majority of money for the civilian domestic con summingssumption and the commitments rohanwhani has made to the public but there's more harm that iran can and probably will do in support of hamas and hezbollah. probably of particular consequence of the civil war in syria where, frankly, iran is hemorrhaging resources and starring to hemorrhage people. it will also impact the situation in yemen. so even though it may not be the bulk of resources, iran unfortunately has proved cost
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effective in the use of its terrorism dollars and its defense dollars, it's stretched a lot, a long way to being incredibly destructive throughout the region and we can expect that to continue and we can expect it to continue with additional resources. >> so you're worried about that. let me quickly get your thought. yet another arrest outside of buffalo, new york an individual arrested for allegedly getting involved in w isis seems to be happening almost everyday key west florida yesterday. we heard james comey, the fbi director say isis represents the biggest terror threat to the homeland, the bigger threat than al qaeda. you're on the intelligence committee. what's going on. >> well, the volume of threats from isis has multiplied. their use of social media has meant people are being radicalized in their own homes and unless they get on social media and call attention to
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themselves or unless their family or community is very vigilant it's tough for law enforcement to detect these things. law enforcement is working very aggressively. they're often intervening earlier than they might have otherwise to make sure they act before anyone acts out in a violent way. certainly the volume of this problem is going up. at the same time even though i think the volume of the al qaeda threats has come down with our success in taking out leadership i still am concerned about al qaeda's desire to go after our aircraft and go after the big high profile attack. >> and one final question before i let you go. the afghan intelligence service apparently confirming that mullah mohammed omar died two years ago. the former leader of the taliban. has just intelligence also confirmed that? >> we have not confirmed that. it's something that i certainly
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have been talking with the intelligence agencies to get a sense of what our best estimate is is. there have been reports of his dying many times over and it's possible this could be accurate. but i don't have the information at this time and, of course, the big question wolf is if this does turn out to be true or if he is so incapacitated or isolated that he can't effectively deny the rumor, what's the impact on the nascent negotiation with the afghan government as well as this risk that taliban people leave and join isis. if he is dead or otherwise incapacitated, that may cause these taliban to join isis. >> adam schiff, the congressman from california, the ranking member of the intelligence committee. thanks very much. we'll get a different perspective, the republican view of the iran deal, the chairman of the house foreign affairs committee ed royce is standing by. we'll discuss with him after the break.
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secretary of state john kerry is being closely scrutinized on capitol hill. listen to this exchange between the secretary of state and the chairman of the committee. >> we're presuming iran is going to change its behavior. >> no we're not. >> that behavior did not change last weekend when they were chanting again "death to america." >> mr. chairman please with all due respect. we're not presuming any such thing. there's no presumption about what iran will or won't do. there's one objective -- make sure they can't get a nuclear weapon. >> joining us now is the house foreign affairs committee ed royce of california. mr. chairman thanks very much for joining us a testy exchange there. i take it you're adamantly opposed to this nuclear deal. the secretary didn't convince you to vote from favor of it?
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>> well as i've said wolf the issue i raise is that in 10 plus years this deal expires. so we'd give permanent sanctions relief for a temporary setback in their program. that doesn't sound like a good negotiation strategy from my standpoint. >> earlier today, the secretary was back this time testifying before the senate arms services committee chairman jim. he had this exchange with the defense secretary ash carter. listen to this. >> do you, secretary carter believe iran will change its behavior as a result if this agreement is finalized? and have you seen any indication of that? >> i have not, mr. chairman and speaking just for my own judgment i don't foresee that or have any reason to foresee that. that is why it's important that
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the agreement be verifiable. >> do you stlens's any daylight between that answer from the defense secretary as opposed to what you've been hearing from secretary of state john kerry who apparently is a little bit more upbeat that maybe this deal will in fact more moderate iran's policies in the region? >> well one of the things you heard ash carter, our secretary of defense, say two weeks ago was as he explained why he was concerned about this late addition into the agreement on lifting the arms embargo an icbm, he says "thethe "i" stands for intercontinental launched from iran to the united states. so he's made it very clear that he is somewhat concerned about the fact that at the 11th hour somehow into this agreement come wolf, something none of us expected which is the ability
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now if for iran in eight years time to be able to have the arms embargo on their ballistic missile program lifted so rush can shah can help them. that's a concern, and another aspect that i think is concerning to him and to all of us is that the 12 questions that the iaea asked because they had a thousand pages that showed the bomb weerk iran had already done those were supposed to be answered. those are still not answered. that's why this site agreement is important to us. we're still in the process of sort of going through the information and trying to get to the bottom of just what iran has actually committed to do that is verifiable. >> you have a lot going on up there on capitol hill mr. chairman thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you. there's a breaking story out of ohio we're following right
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now. a university of cincinnati campus police officer has been indicted in the fatal shooting during a traffic stop. the hamilton county prosecutor said moments ago the grand jury returned a murder indictment. he called the shooting "horrible." >> this is the most asinine act i've ever seen a police officer make is totally unwarrant eded. it was -- it's an absolute tragedy in the year 2015 that anyone would behave in this manner. it was senseless and i met with the family just moments ago. it's just horrible. >> our national correspondent jason carroll is joining with us more. jason, we just got the video to
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warn our viewers throughout that what they're about to see is disturbing. we'll let it roll in its entirety and then you and i will talk about what we just saw. watch this. >> how's it going, man? >> all right, how's it going? >> do you have your license on you. >> yeah what happened. what is the problem? >> is this your car? >> yeah. >> you're coming back from the casino. >> it's my car, why? you >> you don't have a license plate on your car. >> it's in my glove box. >> it's right here. >> okay. that's not where the front plate is supposed to go. >> i don't know that. >> you don't have to reach for it. it's okay. do you have a license on you. >> yes. what's that bottle on the floor there there
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[ inaudible ] >> bottle of what? >> aspirin. >> do you have a license on you? >> yes. >> okay i'm going to ask you again, do you have your license? >> i have a license, you can take my name. >> you don't have your license on you? i'm asking a direct question. do you have your license? >> i thought i did. what did you pull me over for? >> again, the front tag. >> but it's not illegal to not have a front tag. >> actually it is. i'm going ask you again do you have a license on you. >> i have a license, you can run my name. >> okay it's not on you, though? >> i don't think i have it on me. >> be straight up with me. are you suspended? >> no i'm not suspended. >> why don't you have your license on you. >> i just don't no. i'm sorry. >> where do you stay at?
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>> right around the corner. >> well as far as figuring out if you can have a license, take your seat belt off. >> i didn't do nothing. >> go ahead and take your seat belt off. stop! stop! >> shots fired! shots fired! >> did you get him. >> i don't know! >> all right, jason. obviously very disturbing in this particular case once again a white police officer a black driver. walk us through what we saw. it's obviously very, very disturbing and causing huge ramifications right now, especially after this murder indictment of the police officer. >> extremely difficult to watch. just to recap what has happened
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here. what our viewers saw was the body cam video from university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing. he had just pulled over samuel dubose on july 29 pulled him over because he was missing a front license plate. shortly thereafter you can see him questioned him several times about providing some information about his license. at one point when he was moving for his seat belt the officer opened fire. that's the long and the short of it. but that's not what the officer told investigators. the officer told investigators he fired after he was dubose in his car. but it doesn't show him being dragged in any way, shape of form. dubose's family didn't believe the police officer's account of what happened and really pressured local authorities there, including the hamilton county prosecutor's office to
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release that body cam videoment they did that today and joe dieters, the hamilton county prosecutor i have to say, after listening to prosecutor for a number of years, i have never heard a prosecutor that angry and using that much emotion in describing what happened here. he all but called it a flat out murder. he said it was senseless, he said that mr. dubose was subdued, he was not violent in any way, shape, or form. he said this was "completely unnecessary for something like this to occur." he called it asinine. he went on to say he feels sorry for the family and what they have lost. he feels sorry for the community simply because they had done so much to build good will between themselves and the community i want to make this clear, this is not cincinnati p.d. we're talking about, this is an officer from the university of cincinnati which is a different arm of law enforcement in the cincinnati area. but once again, wolf, the
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prosecutor calling it a chicken crap stop" saying there was no need for this officer to resort to violence. that officer he said would be treated like a murder suspect. a warrant for his arrest is already out. i've also had an opportunity to speak to the families' attorney mark o'mara about all this. even before this press conference was held he had already started to get word about what would be shown on that body cam video but even after seeing it you can tell that -- even the prosecutor saying he was shocked by what he saw. basically saying officer ray tensing had "no business" being a police officer. wolf? >> you said mark o'mara, a lot of our viewers know him. he's been a cnn analyst, obviously a well-known attorney. which family is he representing? >> he is representing member of sam dubose's family. and he is going to -- and we are also being told that members of
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the sam dubose family that was the man who was shot and killed by officer ray tensing, we are hearing they're expected to speak probably in about the next 20 minutes or so so we should be hearing from them as well. but once again, wolf i can't really impress how much i've heard prosecutors in the past i've never heard a prosecutor speak with this type of language before in terms of dealing and referring to an officer of the law. >> let's listen to a little bit there are the prosecutor. watch this. >> we don't -- this doesn't happen in the united states okay? this might happen in afghanistan or somewhere. this just does not happen in the united states. people don't get shot for a traffic stop. unless they're violent towards the police officer. and he wasn't. he was simply slowly -- you're going to see it. he was simply slowly rolling away. that's all he did. >> it is pretty shocking when
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you hear what's going on and unfortunately there have been several incidents as all of our viewers know in the united states in recent months and years involving these kinds of incidents. you say there's a warrant out for this police officer's arrest right now, he's not under arrest yet, is that right? ? warrant out for his arrest. >> hold on jason, mark o'mara, the attorney for the family of the driver is now speaking out. let's listen. >> we'll be working with them up here. a couple things to start with. first of all, not just because we got the result that we wanted was to vindicate sam's reputation and who he is and who he was. i do really want to thank you mr. dieter's office and the law enforcement who did the investigation on this case in a number of ways. in a case like this where
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there's evidence that mr. dieter's office could not disclose because of the ongoing investigation that still leaves the pain unattended and, of course when there's a vacuum of information, that's where all the speculation comes from. that's where the anger comes from so to thank mr. dieter's law enforcement for having done a quick and thorough job in talking care of this. two, and the family will echo this this is a very trying time for the family, that's obvious. it's also a trying time for the community, for since gnatty and because this is now getting the attention it's getting and it's a next chapter in events that have happened similar to this where cop and citizen or cop and black interactions lead to tragedy we want to make sure and the family is firmly behind that though we understand the concerns in the community, we want those reactions to be
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completely peaceful. sam was a peaceful person. there have been some questions about how peaceful sam was and i think those questions have now been put to rest when you look at that video. there was a suggestion of whatever dragging the officer, the arrogance towards the officer, failure to comply or whatever. i this i anyone who's looked at that video understands that sam was who sam always has been. that was paceful and non-aggressive. we want his memory to remain intact as a peaceful person and we do not want any violence any anger to come out in a way that denigrates who he was and who we want him to be remembered as. we understand the emotions tied with this the family feels more than most the emotions of this loss but we want any reaction to
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be one maintaining the integrity of who sam was and the peacefulness. that not only the family deserves as they continue their mourning but this is an opportunity now that cincinnati has to do this in a proper way? we've made a huge first step because sometimes officers believe people are not held accountable for actions in more this case one is being held accountable. so cincinnati is showing the rest of us how to do this right. i'm not a since gnattian but i know the country is looking at cincinnati as to how you're going to react to( this and we're asking it be done in a way that moves us forward and that fellow people from cincinnati and law enforcement officers can be proud of.
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>> reporter: are you surprised? >> i am a bit surprised to be honest with you. since i didn't see the video, and nobody saw the video, it's easy to sit back and say, you know you look at that three page police report and, quite honestly as mr. dieter said that was self-serving wasn't it? now that we know -- you can't look at that video and say that police report follows the video. it doesn't. it contra indicates -- contradicts it. my concern is just that that you look at police reports and they can on occasion be self-serving. if there wasn't a video available i do not believe he would have had an indictment. i believe one officer would have said what he said in that report and fol lode up with it.
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the other officer who seem to say maybe he saw the dragging maybe he was just told about the dragging suddenly becomes a corroborating witness. but now that we have a video we don't have that problem. so if you had asked me before seeing the video, i would have said without question the indictment. i think he did what he did because of the video and other information. >> i truly believe that we are seeing the crisis in a long time. you don't have anyone in the black community -- and they know that what's existed in the criminal justice system has been biased for decades. i've done this for 30 years and my -- my practice is skewed in favor of young black males in the system. why?
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because they're brought into the system more. so yes, we're seeing a crisis. if there's a silver lining to what's been happening for the past few years beginning with all the cases three four years ago that have started this conversation or maintained this conversation it's that we are finally talking about it and i do think that body cameras should be mandatory with law enforcement because unfortunately is when you have cops who may not be well enough trained, may not be well enough paid and you put a gun on their hip and they go do one of the most difficult jobs that we asked ask them to do police ourselves from each other, and do it for a year or two or decade you're going to get insensitive. the problem is that then this can happen. so i think we have a crisis but we also have a great opportunity. yeah. >> reporter: i think there was a second officer semicorroborating the story. do you think there was an intentional coverup or just "you're my fellow officer, you say so fine" or something else?
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>> i look forward to mr. dieter's office and whoever else looking into why that officer seemed to have said what he said. i've never seen a sworn statement by officer number two that said "i saw dragging" but you read the report and i read the report and when i read that report it said to he was put to task in his sworn testimony, did he change or modify that story once he realized there was a video that was going to couldn't indicate what he said i don't know but we have to having officers cover another officer than it is telling the truth. >> when you looked at the video i'm look at it at what point does he possibly --
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[ inaudible ] ? i don't know. i've probably seen hundreds of video of events and i've reviewed police it's what i do. when i look at that video the first time, i knew what i expected to happen. i expected that there to be a tussle. i expected an escalation of the event, right. i expected that there was going to be some explanation for why somebody took out a gun and shot and i'm watching it waiting, and the shot happened and the car took off, and i actually for a slight second thought, okay the shot's coming. the car is going to stop he's going to catch up to the car. that's where the tussle and then i realized the shot had already happened. i'm not trying to dramatize it. when that shot happened for absolutely no reason under the law as i know it it. i know when you're supposed to use deadly force. you're supposed to use it when you have reasonable fear of great bodily injury. there was none of that. there wasn't an aggravation.
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there wasn't an increase in the situation certainly not by sound. it was horrific to see that anyone could think now i can use a gun. >> [inaudible question ]. >> and i know the mom wants to come up maybe for a moment and -- >> yes, sure. >> what do you know about officer tensing at this point, anything more than we've already heard? >> not very much except i know he's going to tell us that something was going on in his head unrelated to sam and that helped inform why he did what he did. >> insanity? >> i believe that he's going to have to come up with some explanation for how he thought it was appropriate to do what he did by taking out a gun to begin with instead of leaving that car and then firing.
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if he has any training and we have to presume he has some he's trained on how not to use a gun before using a gun. that's what cops are trained to do when to not use your gun and only to use it under the most necessary circumstances. >> do you think it was racially motivated, or what is your read about that? >> i don't think officer tensing got up that morning and decided that he was going to kill a black guy, but we know that the reason why young black males or blacks are in the criminal justice system more than they should be because there's almost unsubtle spoken biasses that exist between all of us. we all make instantaneous decisions about each other. unfortunately it seems to be we're still making negative instantaneous decisions about blacks, and that seems to be one of the explanations for why it shows up in more arrests. so active no.
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passive probably. >> when i heard that my son was killed and i came forth and so many people -- there was a gentleman speaking of my son, and i knew that gentleman knew my son the way he spoke of him. i knew he knew him, and i -- i felt the need to go up there and to hug him, and when i came forth i brought the lord with
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me. he goes with me wherever i go and i say it the lord bringeth. he is clothed with majesty. he is clothed with strength. the world also established that it cannot be moved. thou from that everlasting. the fluids have lifted up oh, lord the fluids have lifted up their voice. the lord on high is mightier than the noise of many. ye there are mighty ways of the sea, but testimonies are very sure. holiness be coming. oh lord forever. bless