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tv   Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer  CNN  August 6, 2015 2:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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i will turn you over for brianna keilar. she is filling in for one mr. wolf blitzer. she's in a place we like to call "the situation room." it's right next door. brianna? sl \s sources say russia is likely behind a cyberassault on the e-mail system of the pentagon's joint staff. we are military secrets compromised? missing, a frantic search for rebel fighters trained by the u.s. where are they? is the u.s. strategy in syria falling apart? blow back. now he's taking heat for his harsh rhetoric. was he -- and pieces of the puzzle. malaysia says seat cushion and other items that washington up on the same island, but some investigators aren't so sure.
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as the search is stepped up, are they any closer? wolf blitzer is off. i'm brianna keilar, uin "the situation room." this is cnn breaks news. breaking news, russia is seen as the most likely suspect in a massive cyberattack, but officials are not ruling out china the attack was carried out in a manner not seen before. we do have full details on it isis claiming a takeover, where it once envisioned a force of thousands, the u.s. has managed to train and deploy only a few dozen. now those fighters have basically vanished.
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malaysian officials say seat cushions, windows, other plane pieces have washed up on a same -- but other countries are not so sure. we'll take you aboard a search plane over the indians ocean. i'll speak with congresswoman tulsi gabbard, and. with el begin with our breaking news, a likely suspect in that -- i want to go directly to barbara starr. >> tonight a lating they're that russia was behind this attack two weeks ago on an unclassified system. that system has been down for the last two weeks off-line while cyberexperts here at the pentagon try to rebuild it this is an unclassified, but very
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critical system, 4,000 users in an organization called the joint staff. those are the people that work for the chairman of the joint chiefs, general marty dempsey, top military adviser to the president. this was a very stealthy, very sophisticated spear-phishing attack, if you will into the unclassified system, and whoever did it did get inside. the reason tonight they say a leading theory is russia is the level of sophistication. it could really only have been accomplished by the chinese or the russians. it has led them to believe it's the russians? absolutely no, they are still looking and still trying to get that unclassified e-mail systems back up, back online. >> just because it's
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unclassified, barb bra, that doesn't mean it isn't sensitive information, right? >> well, it can be. that certainly the pentagon would not want the russians to have. they believed whoever did it, and if it was the russians, they specifically targeted this server and this e-mail system. they knew exactly what they are going after. you have to wonder what kind of message is moscow trying to send to the united states chairman of the joint chiefs. >> tell es about what you're hearing about trained rebels there. >> another very different -- this was the center of the u.s. strategy, to train rebels on the ground. tonight it may all be in at that timers. >> just weeks after u.s. troops finished training the first group of 54 moderate syrian
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rebels, the pentagon says it no longer knows where many of them even are. >> this whole situation look back across the board. >> the administration will not discuss their fate in detail. a u.s. officials tells cnn it's now believed that some got stuck in turkey and never crossed the border into syria. some haven't been seen since they finished training. they may have been deserted or even been killed. no one knows. >> after last week's attack, some ran away. the u.s. watching to see if they can manage to regroup. >> that attack by fighters affiliated by al qaeda, one rebel was killed, as many as five captured. many question why the u.s. put such a small group on the front
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line. >> they're certainly not going to attack anybody. >> this area in northern syria is now the focus of u.s. militariage. >> u.s. air strikes expected to increasely found isis targets. if the u.s. and turks can shut down this area, they hope to stop the flow of isis fighters into syria, and keep them off this route, straight into raqqa, the center of isis controls. >> i don't think it's possible to shut that border down by air strikes. you are not going to do permanent damage to groups like isis until you've got someone that can hold the territory that's an ally. donnell have that right now. >> that is the rebels that the u.s. is trying to train and get in there to conduct this battle again isis. the problem is the u.s. promised
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to protect the rebels. the u.s. is also saying tonight here at the pentagon that they do not have full command and control of the rebels. if they scatter, the u.s. may not be able to protect them. that's a message that the second class, the second group of rebels now undergoing training is certainly hearing. >> very good point. thank you. president obama is taking heat for his strident rhetoric in selling the deal. he even compared gop critics to iranian hard-liners. let's turn to jim acosta did he go overboard? >> reporter: they're also touting some good news, that president obama picked up a big
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backer when keers been jill brand announced her support putting pressure on another democrat, chuck schumer, but the white house is not backing away. the president's aides, in fact are doubling down on it. >> there are no apologies from the white house, tied mobs to gop op position to the iran nuclear deal. >> it's the hardliners chanting "death to america" who have been most opposed to the deal? >> crass political rhetoric. >> mitch mcconnell unloaded on the president's iran speech. >> the president strike mess at least so far as treating it like a demonize your opponents, get
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the democrats all angry. >> reporter: josh earnest insisted the death to america jab wasn't below the belt. >> was that a little over the top? >> i think it was a statement of fact. >> the fact is they have taken the same position. >> reporter: the president's remarks reflect his deep frustration with gop leaders, as he told a group -- if i presented a cure for cancer, getting legislation passed would be a nail-biter, but lawmakers on both sides say the president may have hurt his cause when he compared the vote on the deal to the iraq war. >> i do not seed a comparison. he's trying to shut down debate by saying those who have questions, legitimate questions, legitimate questions, are somehow unpatriotic. >> the white house had likened
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the -- calling for diplomacy but mr. obama's tone was combative. >> i got the sense that the president lectures during his. >> the point is we're creating a culture that is not conducive to good policy or good politics. the american people deserve better. josh earnest equipped, i doubt it, that is a sign the white house believes it has the votes, even though it might be not be pretty.
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joins mess now is congresswoman from hawaii. congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us to talk about this. the u.s. believes russia was behind this hack. do you see this as a new cold war? >> brianna, first of all. aloha. thanks for having me on your show today. >> i think it further highlights and provides another example of how much more seriously we need to be taking these steps. and make sure our defenses are strong enough. >> what do you think is the
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appropriate proportional response to this? >> well, i mean i think first of all, we have to figure out exactly what happened, who instigated this attack, where it capes from, and then figure out first of all, how do we protect ourselves from these types of attacks and then figure out -- >> i do want to ask about the iran deal. you at this point, as far as i understand, are undecided on whether you will support this deal struck between the u.s. and iran and other nations. is that still the case? >> that's right, before we left washington, i spent many, many hours through briefing. really license to experts who have studied this issue extensively, both those advocating for the deal as well as those opposed to it i'm
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continuing to try to get more of my questions answered. there's more that i am still uncertain about, which is regard to the weaponization development, we talk about the regime on the fissile material and the iaea being able to pick up on many places along the supply chain, if iran is cheating in that area, but with regards to the development of a nuclear weapon itself, the weaponization, research and development, it's far easier for that to happened in a very covert way and in a way that can be picked up and cleaned up quickly and much harder to detect. so that's something i'm looking forward to getting more answers on. >> under this agreement, iran is not supposed to be able to develop weapons that can be used to deliver nuclear material you're making the point that may
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not be so simple. know that, has the administration contacted you to talk to you about this? >> i've got in touch with them. both in washington and since i've been back here in hawaii. >> i'm looking forward to get answers from both those who have a lot more experience in these types of inspections rejeeps so this doesn't remain a gaping hole. are they being effective in answers, if this is just one areas you need answers, are they being effective? >> they've been very responsive. they have made themselves available on a whole variety of different sections of this deal. >> i'm making sure my -- what are the alternatives? if those opposing this deal what
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are the scenarios? and really basing my final decision on what i believe will be the best option to keep the american people safe. >> and whether will you decide? >> i'm going to take as long as i need to be able to come to the right decision. this is a hugely impactful situation that we're dealing with, and a decision that will have great consequence. we have, i don't know exactly how many more days, but until the middle of september. before that 60-day deadline comes in. i'm going to best ute lies the time i have to make sure i cover all the bases and come to the best possible decision for my vote. stay with us, we have many more questions about the u.s. trained syrian rebels, where are they? are there any left to take the fight to isis? we'll be back with more on that
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congresswoman from holes, she served on the foreign affairs and armed services committee, and also a veteran of the iraq war. you heard this report that they have actually scattered since five rebels were captured. some of them never even made it to -- is it time to abandon this $500 million program? >> i was just shaking my head as i was hearing that report from barb b barbara. it's clear there's never been a clear and intelligent strategy. whatever limited strategy there was, i voted against it when it came in front of us, because i knew it wouldn't work. the mind-boggling thing not only
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have we spent $500 million to train around 60 or so of these rebels, who are now no one knows exactly where they are. we have folks here at home, veterans and service members whose benefits and pay are being threatened, saying there's not enough money, veterans not getting the care we need. meanwhile, we have spent officer $8 million on each one of the these so-called syrian modera s moderates. >> what's it? are they -- >> you can look at a numb number of things, a platoon-sized group, when right next to them, the irony is we have these kurdish fighters who have proven to be the most effective, to be the most courageous, to have
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taken back key territory from isis in northern iraq, and what's happening is u.s. and nato are standing by supporting turkey as turkey bombs these same kurdish fighters who have been that ground fighting force effective again isis now that i have turkey out of southern turkey, is there still a u.s. military force on the ground? >> a u.s. military force on the ground in syria? >> no, in -- in turkey, essentially you're seeing these sorties being flown over syria. are you seeing in a way -- is this sort of a drip drip drip on the way to having u.s. forces in a region that americans don't really want u.s. forces in? >> well, i think this is frankly an indication of the lack of a clear strategy to defeat isis.
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the fact that you've got this schizophrenic approach with u.s. air support providing some cover and some assistance to these kurdish fighters on the ground, but other than the you've got the u.s. and nato supporting turkey bombing these same fighters. it just makes absolutely no sense. you know, turkey is now touting the fact that they're in and out after isis has been at this over a year, and now they're stepping up allowing free passage over turkey doing nothing, as isis is continuing to conduct their activities. in a three-day period, they targeted over 400 tarts, kurdish targets, and three isis targets, within that same three-day period of time. so, you know, i see turkey using this as an excuse to go after the kurds, our ground fighters
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for their own political gain, rather than standing in solidarity with us against this enemy called isis. >> you say the administration is talking to you when it comes to iran. are they talking to you about your concerns when it comes to isis and syria? enchts you know, we have had and continue to have discussions. clearly there's some disagreements on the best approach to actually have a cleerp and winning strategy to defeat isis. whether you're talking about syria or talking about iraq. i'm going to continue to advocate for what i think will work and clearly what we have seen and what has come before us in congress has not. >> congresswoman tulsi gabbard, thanks very much. >> thanks, brianna. aloha. >> aloha to you as well. we're getting in new information. this includes reports of seat cushion and window pieces turning up on the same island
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where an airliner's wing flap washed up. later, nashville police tell their hairoing stories of the shootout with the man who attacked a movie theater. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. and eat like i skipped lunch. nobody's watching why? because red lobster's crabfest is back. and i'm diving into so much crab, so many ways. like crab lover's dream with luscious snow and king crab legs, and rich crab alfredo or this snow crab bake. who knew crab goes with everything? whoever put crab on this salmon, that's who.
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we're following new developments in the disappearance of malaysian airlines flight 370. today officials annoyed more plane parts have washed ashore, including pieces of windows and seat cushions.
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let's get the latest from sunlen serfaty. >> i have here with me, this is a plane cushion from a boeing 777. it's similar to mh370. as you can see here, each has a label with serial numbers, lists where it was made, when it was last inspected. we don't know the condition of these particular seat cushions that malaysians claim to have found, but if it is new debris and it is connected, it could help investigators with another piece to this puzzle. as investigators wrap up their second full day, today reports of chilling new discoveries. seat cushions, pieces of windows, and aluminum material, that the malaysian government says now washed up on the same shore on reunionite where that large win part was found. >> many items have been collected, and we'll send to the authority, but that i cannot
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confirm is 370. all these need to be very fine. >> the malaysian prime minister says it is from mh370. french investigators have yet to confirm with certainty it belongs to the missing plane. the mixed messages represent another public war between officials, which has set off the families of the missing victims, desperate for answers, today they stormed into the malaysia airlines office in beijing, demanding to know the truth. >> translator: we will go to the site to check it out by ourselves. we don't believe any of their words, which are all lies. >> right now we lack a lot of confidence in the malaysian government. whatever they say, we feel like they rushed it. in the lab french investigators continue to focus on the flaperon, using equipment like they high-powered microscopes to analyze, doing everything they can to find out
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for sure the piece is from flight 370, and maybe even learn what happened to the doomed plane in its final moment. the head of the australian safety board today questioned whether any additional debris was found at all. he says at this stage nothing has retrieved and nothing confirmed to be associated with the plane, let alone mh370. >> that is puzzling. thank you for that report. let's discusses it with our experts. we have david gallo, former ntsb managing director peter goelz, and former fbi assistant director tom fuentes. david, this debris -- windows, cushions, aluminum, and this has been collected. this is according to malaysian authorities. let's start with this question first. is this possible this stuff washed up on reunion island? >> sure, brianna, it's very possible it is, but what a
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nightmare in terms of public relations and organized way of getting the word out. this is not what the families need. they want some definitive answers, and that should should come from probably the french authorities at this point. >> why, tom, are they not on the same page? >> i think it sounds to me, brianna, like the malaysians feel like they have lost control and they're trying to hurry up and put information out there. maybe they're resentful they items washed up on french soil and have ended up in france for analysis, when you already shall so many other countries, particularly the australians involved in the investigation from the beginning. there might be some friction between malaysia and france. >> do you agree with that assessment? >> i think, yes, there is some friction. the malaysians have been stung by the public criticism in the way this investigation has been run. they have lost the confidence of
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the victims' families from almost day one. >> as we saw there, they're so upset, who can blame them, right? >> think just do not believe anything they say. this kind of offhand remark of the transportation minister saying, well, we've got this stuff, but it may not be from 370. then why announce it? >> why even say it? >> where else could this is debris show up? >> as david said and others who have studied this, it's long enough, so we're 2,000 miles, it could be further or another 3,000 files in mauritius or the seychelle seismt islands. is the currents in this area are fickle. >> some have said even tasmania?
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>> we show, when you look at the graphics, a nice simple line for these currents, but in actuality they're very turbulent and sometimes reverse direction, so it could be the whole indian ocean, honestly. gentlemen, stay with me. i need to get a quick break in. more on mh370 after this.
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will be deployed off the coast of reunion island, where this wing part was found. the search has expanded to other islands. erin mcloughlin rode along with a reconnaissance. >> reporter: hi, brianna. they have been conducting searching, and today they took us up in one of their planes and showed us firsthand the challenges of searching for signs of mh370. these coast guards men know the odds are against them. after all, they don't even quite know what they're looking for. their mission -- find anything that resembles plane debris. >> it's very difficult to conduct a search for a small object from the air. >> reporter: up here you get the idea there's a lot to search. the water is vast and the coast
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expansive. we're really hugging the coast did not line, flying very slowly to help with that visual search. the team scans the crystal blue waters just over 100 miles where they found the flaperon. >> there has been reports of reunion has been quite promising. >> reporter: they're on the lookout for anything white or shiny, the size that a ray door might miss. >> -- >> reporter: did you spot something? the captain just toll me they've seen a white object on the waters, but they can't find it again. they called it into the operations group to investigate. another look around, still no signs of the object. the captain veers the plane back to base with a glimmer of hope there's something out there, more clues to solving this mystery. we checked in with them on the status of that elusive white
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object. they say they did send out a ship to take a look. they couldn't find it. just another lead turned to disappointment. brianna? >> very familiar with that. erin mcloughlin, thank you so much. tom fuentes, peter goelz and david gallo, our experts are with us. peter, you see france putting more boats, more planes towards this? how big does this search need to become? >> they need to put the resource out to work, you have to put the resources into it. this mystery demands it. >> but it's not even a guarantee, tom, that they'll find something? >> not at all. there was nothing found the first go-around 16 months ago, as others have mentioned, those curtis are very unpredictable and twist and turn all over that ocean. debris could be anywhere. >> david, now that you do have
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debris that's been found, certainly we know this flabberen, we'll see about the others, how did modeling be used to determine where more of the debris might show up? >> well, i think for short bits of type, they may be able to backtrack a bit, but we have no idea how long ago that piece arrived on reunion island. it would be tough. they'll have to be lucky. i agree they have to get the resources out there and have a look. >> how do they gauge how many resources? >> i think just by -- it depends on what they have there. i don't know if they'll move anything else into the area. by now this debris field has gone from a condensed area of thousands of items to, you know, scattered items here and there. it's just not clear to me what they have on the islands. helicopters, planes, local people walking the beaches. i really do think they'll have
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to be lucky from here on in to find more debris. but you have to try. >> is it just luck? >> i think at this point it is just luck, but you have to put the resources out there. the mystery demands it. i think the most effective things is people walking the beaches, every day. >> and tom, back to the coordination here, how important is it that malaysia is on the same page as french authorities? >> from a pr standpoint it's very important, from a practical standpoint in a way it doesn't matter. the search is going on about the australians at the believed crash site closer to australia, as parts are picked up, being appearsed in france, despite of the fact they're not communicating, you have one of the very best group of experts in the b.e.a. in france studying the issue. whether they talk to each other or whether they agree, they may look foolish, but the actual end
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results of examining the pieces in france will be top notch. >> what do you think, peter? >> it's unfortunate they're not on the same page, but 28 not set back the investigation any. the french are taking the appropriate steps guided by the treaty to identify the piece and complete their part of the process. >> peter golds, tom fuentes, david gallo, thanks so much. coming up, new details about the shootout about the man who attacked people inside a nashville movie theater. later, disturbing video of the moments before a north carolina policeman shot and killed a disoriented unarmed man, who was looking for help after surviving a car wreck. will a jury call it manslaughter? ♪"once there was a hushpuppy" by dan romis man kind?eitlin ♪ are we good? go see. go look through their windows
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a couple of hours ago, nashville police officers recounted the harrowing story of their shoot-out with a man who attacked people inside a movie theater. the attacker described as a transient was killed but police figure -- police are trying to figure out why he did this. nick valencia, what's the latest there? >> reporter: brianna, at a press conference we heard from the officer who first confronted the suspect who's being hailed as a hero. jonathan thrift is a former servicem
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serviceman, he was deployed overseas, he says he's been in these scenarios before. also in that press conference we learned accordingly to police the suspect had several chances to surrender but continued to engage with officers. >> immediately upon entering the theater, i was engaged with what i perceived to be small-arms fire from a small-caliber handgun. >> reporter: the policeman, six-year veteran jonathan thrift, ran inside the theater yesterday afternoon after 29-year-old vin sen day burst into a movie theater and doused movie is goers with pepper spray. >> i could see the silhouette of a figure. i engaged that figure with one shot. >> reporter: police say montana was carrying a propane tank. >> he also had lighter fluid and a lighter. there is a great possibility that he intended on using this propane canister as some type of
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an explosive. >> reporter: call it luck, serendipity, or a blessing. two police officers were working a car crash right in front of the theater and were able to race to the scene. >> the officers immediately ran to the theater. our response to the theater after this gunman or active shooter situation began was probably 60 to 90 seconds. >> all cars be advised we have shots fired, officer involved -- >> reporter: minutes later, the s.w.a.t. team converged into the theater don ising gas masks when the suspect tried to escape. >> the gunman tried to go out through a rear door of this particular theater. when he did, there were other officers waiting. >> reporter: montana was killed when police opened fire. no one else was shot. >> this shady-looking guy stood up, looks like two bags, walked
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toward the back of the theater -- >> reporter: the chaos inside the nashville theater. >> he put out like a hatchet and started attacking this family. he pulled out a gun and we all ran out of the theater. >> we did nothing to bring this upon ourselves. i am very, very grateful that no one else got injured here today other than the person who perpetrated this. >> reporter: montana was believed to have been homeless just a short time ago. we spoke to the nashville rescue mission who told us that montana had checked in there monday but didn't stay the night. also on that same day his mother filed a missing persons report telling authorities her son was diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. authorities here in nashville believe it's that long history of mental health issues that played a major role in what happened here yesterday. >> nick valencia in nashville, thank you so much. coming up, trump time. the gop front-runner is front and center in the republican debate. will hi top rivals try to tear
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wonderful, crazy mornings. we figure you probably don't have time to wait on hold. that's why at xfinity we're hard at work, building new apps like this one that lets you choose a time for us to call you. so instead of waiting on hold, we'll call you when things are just as wonderful... [phone rings] but a little less crazy. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. happening now. trump's big test. the republican front-runner lands in cleveland for his presidential debate debut. some of his rivals already have taken the stage and they're taking aim at the billionaire
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candidate. will trump lash out tonight? pentagon attack. u.s. officials have a new theory about who was behind the cyber strike on a military computer system. they're pointing fingers tonight at russia. fresh blood. isis is switching up its strategy to attract new kinds of recruits. will they make the terror group even more brutal and dangerous? and cop on trial. we're getting the first look at dash cam video in the deadly shooting of an unarmed african-american man. what the video doesn't show could be critical. we welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. wolf blitzer is off today, i'm brianna keilar. you're in "the situation room." >> this is cnn breaking news. >> breaking news tonight. round one of the first republican presidential debate is wrapping up right now and donald trump was the elephant in the room even though he wasn't
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actually there. the second-tier candidates aiming some of their sharpest jabs at trump as well as at president obama and hillary clinton. transfer is gearing up for his turn on the debate stage in cleveland, ohio. the top ten republican contenders face off in just a few hours. and trump is likely to be a leading target, given his front-runner status, and the controversial comments that tend to roll off of his tongue. we have correspondents, analysts and newsmakers standing by as we cover all of the news that is breaking now. let's go first to cnn chief congressional correspondent dana bash. she is at the debate site in cleveland, dana? >> brianna, the first round just wrapped up. this is the debate with the seven candidates who don't poll high enough to meet the standards by fox news to be on the ten-person stage in primetime. some of the candidates, at least their campaigns, were calling this the kids' table. there definitely was not a food fight, there was god forbid substance. take a look.
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it may have been billed as the undercard. but that didn't stop it from feeling like a main event. seven candidates with poll numbers too low to make it onstage with the top ten trying to get buzz from this so-called happy hour debate. >> i think our country is tired of politicians who simply read the polls and fail to lead. >> reporter: using their moment in the spotlight to go after hillary clinton. >> to all americans who want a better life, don't vote for hillary clinton. you're not going to get it. >> reporter: donald trump -- >> i didn't get a phone call from bill clinton before i jumped in the race. did any of you get a phone call from bill clinton? i didn't. maybe because i hadn't given money to the foundation or donated to his wife's senate campaign. >> reporter: lindsey graham laying down a hawkish challenge for other candidates to get on a war footing. >> if you're running for president of the united states and you don't understand that we need more american ground forces in iraq and that america has to be part of a regional ground
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force that will go into syria and destroy isil in syria, then you're not ready to be commander in chief. >> reporter: after his 2012 oops moment, rick perry spent two and a half years in debate prep hoping to i redeemed. he took center stage. >> i stood on the ramp in dallas, texas, and looked the president of the united states in the eye and said, mr. president, if you wantborder, t >> reporter: attention shifts to tonight's main attraction where trump, who made a grans sbrand arriving on his personal jet, will be front and center. >> are we going to hear more about your immigration plans tonight? >> i think so. >> reporter: to show how much attention the billionaire has stolen social media sites released data showing americans are searching for and talking about trump at rates exponentially higher than everyone else. >> i take my new phone thanks to the donald -- >> reporter: maybe why so many attention-starved candidates were willing to take part in this parody video, showing how
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they are preparing for tonight. >> i normally call my mom to get advice. mom, i can't say that on television! >> reporter: in all seriousness, these candidates have been preparing in various ways. we know scott walker, for example, has had mock debates for probably a couple of months and more intensely the last couple of weeks. i learned today that jeb bush, he's doing this kind of sports-style, locker room-style in that his campaign gave him some clips of his opponents basically talking trash about him so that he could be prepared to hear what they have to say about him just in case it comes up tonight. brianna? >> reviewing the tape. really interesting, dana bash. stand by for us. donald trump, he claims he doesn't plan to attack his opponents on the debate stage tonight. will he be able to restrain himself if others come out swinging? let's look ahead to the main event in just a few hours. cnn senior washington correspondent jeff zeleny with that. >> donald trump was the last
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republican candidate to arrive in cleveland today. that was by design. he was the talk of the town all day long. he's gone to great lengths to show he doesn't need to cram for the debate. he said when he landed, i've been preparing all my life. but trump has been in this presidential race for only 52 days. he's already upended the entire republican primary fight and he'll be at center stage tonight where he'll almost certainly be asked whether he will pledge loyalty to the republican party and vow to support the party's nominee and not run as a third-party candidate. so far, much of this campaign has been conducted long distance. it's a different dynamic when the candidates stand side by side. the question is, what will they say to trump's face? will they say the same thing they've been saying on the campaign trail? don't count on it. a republican strad gist i talked to said they believe that's a losing proposition. simply to pick a fight with trump. there are five current or former governors onstage. jeb bush intends to focus on his conservative record as the
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governor of florida. but his aides pointed out the last time he debated was october 2002. nearly 13 years ago. perhaps an attempt to lower expectations. beyond trurch, republicans are watching jeb bush and scott walker, the governor of wisconsin, the closest. in addition to these governs there are three senators and one neurosurgeon looking to break out and the billionaire businessman. the reason the debate has taken on outsized importance is there are half as many debates as there were four years ago and twice as many candidates. the person not on the stage referenced again and again is hillary clinton. that's how many of these republicans believe they can break out, by presenting a contrast to her. >> it's almost like she's at the debate. very good point, jeff zeleny. dana bash from cleveland, she's going to join us along with cnn chief political analyst gloria borger and cnn senior political analyst ron brawnstein,
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editorial director of "the national journal." trump did factor into the undercard, the happy hour debate. >> the kids' table. he did because the moderators asked about donald trump. and it's very clear from the folk hot answered, rick perry and carly fiorina, that the tack they were taking is the issues. okay? rick perry saying -- >> actually, i think we have this sound bite. let's roll this sound bite. >> i've had my issues with donald trump. i talked about donald trump from the standpoint of being an individual who was using his celebrity rather than his conservatism. how can you run for the republican nomination and be for single-pair health care? >> right, and carly fiorina pointed out he changed his mind on health care, amnesty and abortion. so they were taking the tack that says, look, on the issues this guy has been all over the
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place. he is not a true conservative. that could happen this evening. but the thing you have to remember is that the normal rules don't apply to donald trump. so if you attack him, he's going to attack you back and the audience could side with him. >> there are two vectors from which to attack donald trump. the most controversial things he has said leave him to attack really center from the center or the left. as gloria points out his biggest vulnerability in the republican primary are attacks from the right. while democrats would love to see jeb bush say, get up and say what you said about mexico is inflammatory, racist. in fact, what might be more effective in a republican context is to say, are you really a conservative? why is bill clinton calling you? why have you taken these positions in the past? given he is so dependent on conservative tea party-type voters i'm betting few know those aspects of his history. >> they'll learn. >> i think that's one reason
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rarnd paul said, i'm going to mix it up. maybe this what he's talking about. hitting him from the right is a much more effective tack than the left. >> dana, i want to -- go on. >> i was going to say, i think that last point jeff made is one that we should keep in mind. obviously we are focused on those who are closest to the top of the polls, that will be kind of in the center of the stage around donald trump, jeb bush, and scott walker. but it might kind of those on the outside flanks who might shoot at trump, rhetorically, the most because they are the ones who have the most to lose because trump is taking the kind of tea party voters away from them. senator rubio, senator cruz, rand paul. they're the ones who are the most frustrated because they're saying, wait a minute, we were supposed to be the outsiders. who is this guy to say he's an outsider? they're the ones who are going to hit him most. >> you heard carly fiorina go after donald trump when asked
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about the issues, but she also brought that up phone call. oh, i didn't get a phone call from bill clinton when i was running. do you think that she's going to get some blowback from the donald on that? >> she might, she might. but you know what? just big picture, carly fiorina was one of the winners in this debate, if there was one. she was kind of pitch perfect when talking about all of the issues. both in her performance and her style and substance. on this particular issue, clearly she was ready for that. she had that line ready to go. and you know, certainly anybody who goes after donald trump should be prepared for blowback. i think lindsey graham and rick perry learned that the hard way. you know what? the more she's hit by donald trump, the more attention she gets. what does she care? >> that's true. we've seen other candidates do that. speaking of lindsay gram, take a listen to what he said about the clintons. >> when i get on the stage with
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hillary clinton, we won't be debating about the science. we'll be debating about the solutions. in her world, cap and trade would dominate. that we'll destroy the economy in the name of helping the environment. in my world, we'll focus on energy independence. >> what do you think about that, gloria? >> and he continued to take on the clintons. he threw out toughout the debate point he said, when hillary clinton tells you i've given you all the e-mails you need, she hasn't. so he's ready to take on the clintons. somebody else who's ready to take on the clintons to uses it as part of his campaign rhetoric we ought to watch is mike huckabee. let's not forget he was a great debater in 2007-2008. he's the only one of those ten people who's actually been on a presidential debate stage before. he knows how to take on the clintonth. he's from arkansas. you're going to hear that same kind of rhetoric from mike
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huckabee. he can really rattle a debate. the clinton campaign, they say that hillary clinton is not watching this debate. you better believe they are, all of those close to her are. if she really is not. what are they looking for as she is hit over and over again? >> the same with donald trump. in the undercard you saw arguments that may emerge against donald trump and the republicans i think are rehearsing arguments they'll make against hillary clinton. i thought climate change was an odd place for lindsey graham to start. he extensively negotiated with democrats on a cap and trade bill he ultimately never signed on but came pretty close. i think also it's an opportunity because to the extent republicans get pulled to the right, particularly on immigrati immigration, there is that centrifugal pull on the party trump is secretary of stating that could be a problem in the general election on the other side. >> take a look at a picture from the "new york times." it shows what's really nearly an empty arena. dana, i mean, this is like no one went to see the movie.
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what is going on here? >> i mean, i know, it makes you a little sad, right? >> dana's cringing. >> yeah, it makes you sad. because these are the people who wanted to be with the big boys. they wanted to be at the main event. where the republican national committee, all the committee men are invited, and other people from in and around the country, so forth. and apparently were told they weren't allowed in the room, meaning the men's of the republican national committee, they were co-hosts of this debate, they weren't allowed in the room. it was just a couple of people from the spin room. imagine being on that stage and looking out for your first debate and seeing empty chairs. >> let's hope the lights were really, really bright. >> changed dynamic when there's no applause, changes what it feels like. i'm told by a republican who has a ticket for the 9:00 event, he said he was going to go but he
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was not allowed because the tickets were kept separate for security reasons, for security sweeps. i think the empty room is not a sign these people have no support -- >> not a lack of enthusiasm. >> but it changes the dynamic for have nothing applause in there at all. >> they could have allowed the 9,000 reporters who were there into the room. they would have been happy to be there. >> exactly. and you know what, i just want to add to that. i actually tried to get in, just even to eyeball the stage before it started. and they wouldn't let me in even past the spin room. so yes, there are 9,000 reporters here and we all would have been happy, although there wouldn't have been applause so that wouldn't change that dynamic. >> donald trump saying one of the big issues in this debate is going to be immigration. we are waiting to see what he says about that. this is what rick perry said about it just a short time ago. >> i stood on the ramp in dallas, texas, and looked the president of the united states in the eye and said, mr. president, if you won't secure the border, texas will.
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>> jeff, this is about -- what is the debate about? about seizing that moment to look strong, right? okay. so is this what we're talking about? >> i think so. i think that isn improved rick perry over three years ago. he had an unfortunate immigration moment during his first campaign about the dream act and other things. one of his many unfortunate moments. not the oops moment. on immigration it's been a flash point with donald trump and rick perry and that is why it's slightly unfortunate that he was not on the same stage. immigration is going to come up, no question about it. what i'm looking for tonight is are we going to hear more of the trump agenda? is he going to flesh out his immigration plan? as dana and others have interviewed him he has left -- he said mexico will pay for that wall, i know it, they will do it. how will that happen? we'll see if he puts meat on those bones tonight. >> the rick perry moment is indicative of a larger change. 2012 he got in trouble because he had an inclusive approach to immigration that included in-state tuition for
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undocumented students. did time he's emphasizing security first. the party said we have to reach out to hispanics. there was some movement in that direction, they have snapped back with a hard line on immigration. keeping the long view in sight, whatever happens tonight can reverberate through november. self-deportation was uttered first at a republican presidential debate. >> except for lindsey graham, who was in a bipartisan bill on immigration. >> and jeb bush is in a different place too. >> and jeb is different. >> ron, gore yeah jeff, dana, thank you. . the first democratic presidential debate is set. it's going to be hosted by cnn. hillary clinton and the other democratic candidates will square off on tuesday, october 13th, in nevada. you will see itlive right here on cnn. just ahead, is russia to blame for a cyber attack on the pentagon? will the culprit pay a price? we're getting new information from u.s. officials. will just-released dash cam video help or hurt a police officer on trial in a racially
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charged shooting case? stand by to see the graphic evidence for yourself.
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new word on who was likely behind a sophisticated cyber
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attack on the pentagon. cnn pentagon correspondent barbara starr has more. who is responsible here? >> good evening, brianna. tonight at the pentagon, a leading theory is it was the russians. a very sophisticated attack two weeks ago into an unclassified pentagon e mile system. why are we talking about it now? that system taken offline and the pentagon still two weeks later struggling to rebuild the whole thing. a very sophisticated, stealthy spear fishing attack, we are told, inserting malware into the system. they got inside. even though it's an unclassified e-mail server. very serious. this is 4,000 people that work for the joint chiefs of staff, the chairman of the joint chiefs general marty dempsey, the senior military advisor to the president. it was the type of attack that had more of a profile of the russians than the chinese, officials say. they're trying to sort it out.
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but it was so sophisticated they believe it could only have been essentially a so-called state actor, someone definitely targeting the joint staff, the chairman. was this a message from moss co? hard to tell but it is something that has got them very concerned. brianna? >> barbara, i know you've been talking to your sources about u.s.-trained syrian rebels who are supposed to be taking on isis. what are you hearing? >> you know, this is a situation also unfolding. 54 rebels trained by the u.s., syrian rebels, inserted or tried to be inserted back into northern syria. this is the centerpiece of the u.s. effort to get a ground force fighting isis inside syria. not going to be u.s. boots on the ground, it was supposed to be these rebels. the first group now essentially in tatters. some of them we have learned never made it across the border into turkey to where the fight was happening.
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some haven't been seen since they finished training. no one know is what happened to them. did they dessert? were they somehow killed? they came under attack at this compound in northern syria last week. some have been taken captive. some have basically scattered to the wind. the problem is there are so few syrian rebels being trained. they are being told that the u.s. is there to protect them with air strikes if they come under attack. but u.s. officials are also saying, look, we're not responsible for them. if they scatter, if they can't make it to where they need to be, there's not much we can do about it. it's hard to see right now where the confidence level will be for these syrian rebels to sign up to work with the u.s. brianna? >> barbara starr at the pentagon, thank you. i want to talk about all of this with the chairman of the house foreign affairs committee, republican congressman ed royce of california. congressman, thank you so much for joining us. and i want to ask you about the first item we saw barbara reporting on which was this hack
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of the pentagon joint staffs' e-mail system. they believe by russia. what do you know about it? and what should the response be to it? >> well what we do know is both china and russia, they have stood up basically in beijing, for example, it's the equivalent of the air force or their navy or their army, a separate branch of government dedicated to this and carrying out offensive capabilities against the united states. they've accessed some 20 million accounts here. in terms of russia, these are several thousands accounts that moscow have accessed. but clearly we in the united states have not stood up this kind of an operational capability. and we should be doing that. and we should be doing more as a consequence of putting this as a first priority to defending our
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infrastructure. you can see if you go to a major corporation, they often have taken steps and put them in place that the bureaucracy is not putting in place. so this has to become a much higher priority. we have legislation we put into the senate to try to counter some of this hacking. we understand now the president has indicated he might sign the bill if it comes out of the senate. that's a good step. >> okay. i want to ask about these u.s.-trained syrian rebels. about 60 of them we know five were captured, one killed. the rest seem to have scattered. do you know of any u.s.-trained syrian rebel that is ready to fight, that is fully trained and ready to fight? >> well, part of the problem with the way in which we've handled isis from the beginning was that we did not -- the administration did not take the advice of those who said, use air power early. to stop isis just as it was
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leaving its encampments in syria. it took 14 separate cities, each time without any air power used as isis was out on the open road, to degrade or destroy those isis troops. now they're embedded. now we're in the process, having watched for years this training process, of finally seeing some syrian -- free syrian army forces that we've trained fighting alongside the free syrian army that's holding out in aleppo and elsewhere. they need air support. without close air support i'm afraid they will be overrun by al qaeda and isis units. so i think we also have an opportunity here with the turks for the first time, turkey saying we would give air support if you're talking about a no-fly zone so protect aleppo and other areas, if you can -- if you'll work with us, we'll put -- we'll dispatch units, we'll dispatch
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air power -- >> what about concerns we've heard for instance from congresswoman gabbert that they're targeting kurds over isis? >> we've got to keep the pressure on the turkish government not to get off the theme of going after isis and carrying out their tit for tat with the kurdish syrian forces -- >> how do you do that? >> you're going to have to put a lot of diplomatic power. you're going to have to explain to the turks, they have 2 million syrians living inside their country right now. it's frankly helping to bankrupt local economies up there. if they want to get this thing solved, they've got to assist with air power along with the united states and they've got to cut off the isis fight there's come through the airport up there in istanbul. they're starting to help on that. we've got to keep the pressure on them. they're part of the solution here if we can leverage our considerable pressure through nato. they're nato partners.
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it does not make sense for us not to be putting more pressure on turkey to help solve this problem. >> i have many more questions for you. stay with me. we'll have more on isis with chairman ed royce after a quick break. no student's ever photographed mean ms. colegrove. but your dell 2-in-1 laptop gives you the spunk for an unsanctioned selfie. that's that new gear feeling. get this high performance laptop bundle for only $399. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. having a perfectly nice day, when out of nowhere a pick-up truck slams into your brand new car. one second it wasn't there and the next second...boom, you had your first accident. now you have to make your first claim. so you talk to your insurance company and...boom, you're blindsided for a second time. they won't give you enough money to replace your brand new car. don't those people know you're already shaken up? liberty mutual's new car replacement will pay for the entire value of your car, plus depreciation.
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we are back with the chairman of the house foreign affairs committee, republican congress man ed royce of california. we are going to talk with him in
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just a moment about significant changes involving isis recruits. cnn chief national security correspondent jim sciutto has details on this. what you've learned is the profile of an isis recruiter is really different today than when this war with isis began? >> it's evolving and security services have to keep up with. the recruits are getting younger. we're talking about kids in their teens. we're talking about foreign fighters. also more girls, more young women. you might remember in february, the three british girl hot left east london without telling their parents and went there, and we've learned two of them have been married. what's interesting is that many of them they're seeing are going for nation-building, for lack of a better phrase, not so much for terrorism. but they see themselves as taking part in this great cause of building an islamic state. and that's a problem because it shows how enduring the appeal is of isis. as you know that appeal is extending to the u.s. homeland. >> is europe doing a better job of stemming these recruits? >> the general feeling is, yes.
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you hear from european officials and american officials as well, turkey in particularly, turkey on the border, they are doing a better job of interdiction. turkey is saying, it can't be all on our shoulders, europeans, stop them before they leave your airports, we can't be catching them right across the border. officials in the the u.k. are doing things like confiscating the passports of suspects who they think are going to travel there so that they can travel there. a difficult thing to do because you're kind nerve a pre-crime era. before they do something, you're trying to stop them. >> i do want to talk about this. thank you, jim sciutto, for your report. republican congressman ed royce, chairman of the foreign achairs committee. give us that perspective, congressman, of this strategy that isis is employing with recruits. >> isis right now has about 21,000 english language followers, for example. and they're recruiting all over the world but with social media. and a big part of this also is
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selling the idea that when these young men come, remember, one of the big human trafficking problems right now is that isis controls a population of 5 million people, primarily in syria and part of iraq, and they're taking young girls and basically offering them as concubines to these young men. and so that, the nation-building, the idea that they can't be defeated -- that's why it was important to use air power early on and really show that they could be turned back. so think that they're on a roll. and they've got 31,000 fighters on the front lines right now as well. it's a big problem. >> while i have you here i want to ask you about this face-off between congressional republicans and the state department over some of hillary clinton's e-mails. senator chuck grassley is holding up 20 state department nominees over what he says are
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unacceptable delays in getting pdo you worry that republicans could be overreaching here? >> well, let's -- let me give you an example. there's certain oversight responsibilities that the senate and the house have. now, we went through a period of five years without this administration appointing an inspector general at the state department. why did they not appoint one? it now looks as though they didn't want the oversight, right? and so when you're -- >> t there was an interim one, just to put that in there. i believe there was an interim one at some point. but you're right. >> at one point there was an interim one without the authority and the full responsibility. and once we got an actual inspector general, now we're finding out a lot of information we didn't know. so what tools does the senate have at its disposal? and this is one of the tools is to say, there's information we've asked you for and so
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here's something you want, in terms of these political appointees or whatever, and before we move forward let's get the answer to our questions. if we hadn't gone through the experience that we did on the house side trying to get an inspector general appointed and watching that take five years, as democrats and republicans in the house tried to get this administration to do that, i wouldn't be as sympathetic as i am right now to senator chuck grassley. because he's got questions that are not being answered and he needs to find some leverage to get those answers. >> congressman ed royce, thanks so much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you, brianna. just ahead, dramatic and disturbing police dash cam video. how will it impact the case of a white police officer on trial for killing an unarmed african-american man? but your dell 2-in-1 laptop gives you the spunk for an unsanctioned selfie. that's that new gear feeling. get this high performance laptop bundle for only $399. office depot officemax.
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dramatic new video has emerged in the case of a white police officer charged with voluntary manslaughter for the shooting death of an unarmed african-american man. cnn's brian todd is here with these disturbing images. give us the latest on this case. >> tonight this racially charged case is at its most critical phase. with this police officer fighting for his life in court. now, this dash cam video, so critical in this case, does not actually show the unarmed man being shot. but a warning. what you hear is disturbing. you see him walking. suddenly taser lights flash on his chest and he runs past the police car's dash camera. out of frame the officer yells. >> get on the ground, get on the
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ground! >> reporter: at least 12 shots later, jonathan farrell is dead and the police officer is on trial in charlotte, north carolina, where this have you had i don't is a crucial piece of evidence. officer randall kerik charge the with voluntary man slaughter in the shooting dead of farrell, unarmed black man. the case has drain attention because officer kerik is white, also for the starkly different accounts of what happened. prosecutors and attorneys for jonathan farrell's family say it was the middle of the night and farrell was confused, knocking on a door, looking for help after wrecking his car. >> oh my god, please. >> reporter: police responded to this 911 call, thinking farrell was breaking into a home. farrell's side says when police approached he raised his hands as if to signal the officers to wait and he ran out of fear for his life after the taser was pointed at him. the video never shows farrell's hands up and another responding officer testified farrell and officer kerik were on the ground in a ditch engaged in a
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struggle. >> like in a crawling motion, you know, trying to -- pulling up on officer kerik. >> reporter: officer kerik's lawyers say farrell was aggressive that he pounded his thighs and yelled "shoot me." former fbi assistant director ron hosco officer kerik may have thought farrell was armed and threatening. >> the question is, what's kerik see? what does he perceive? what does he perceive in those milliseconds from somebody walking at me to somebody reaching for their waist and then coming into a full run? >> reporter: farrell's side says of the 12 shots fired, eight were while farrell was on the ground and there was a critical pause between the first four shots and the rest. >> i think that's significant. because i think the officer, it could be argued, realized that he just shot an unarmed man, thought about it, and figured, well, i better keep shooting.
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>> reporter: this controversial case continues to play out with forensics and crime scene experts testifying today. now, officer kerik's department, the charlotte mecklenburg police, did its own investigation immediately after this confrontation and it ruled that the shooting of jonathan farrell was excessive and unlawful. criminal defense attorney keith waters says it's unlikely that's going to be admitted in trial because the standard for proving excessive force in those administrative procedures is much looser. >> and it's interesting, brian. while the other responding officer seemed to help this accused officer in his testimony, he also may have hurt the officer's defense. >> absolutely. he could have, brianna. officer neil, when asked to describe this confrontation, said that he never pulled his firearm and didn't even think of pulling it. neil cyst guide when he saw jonathan farrell running toward the officers, he was only thinking about possibly putting some kind of a sleep hold on him, a head lock. >> unbelievable. brian todd, thanks so much. let's get more with cnn anchor don lemon, former federal prosecutor and cnn legal analyst
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sunny hostin, former fbi assistant director and cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes. sunny, give us your thoughts on what's really a complicated case. >> it is a complicated case. you have two different narratives. the defense narrative, which is this officer feared for his life, and then you have the prosecution's narrative which is, no, this was an unarmed man who was seeking help after a car crash and this officer overreacted and used excessive force, deadly force, when he should not have. i think this dash cam video is going to be absolutely critical. and that is because the supreme court's made it very clear that the standard is, what would a reasonable officer in that position, that evening, what would that officer have done? you've got three other officers that were with him that night and they didn't pull their gun. you have the officer testify today saying, well, i didn't even think about pulling my gun. i think that is very, very strong, strong evidence for this prosecution. and very much so probably why
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we're even talking about it. why the government decided to bring this case. >> what do you think, don, as you saw that? >> i think it is terribly complicated. but when you look at the video you see that he is not armed. at least he's not holding anything in his hands. i don't know if the video will be as clear as sunny thinks it will be. she would know better, she's a former federal prosecutor. you don't actually see what happened. but you certainly do, as brian said, it was rough hearing that. you hear what happens. but you don't know what happened in those moments. if they're going to use what happened in the moments where you don't see it as defense to get the officer off, i don't know. clearly he was unarmed. if the other officers said they didn't think about pulling their guns, and this guy shot him, and he was shot 10, 12 times, that's going to be tough for the officer to get off. and the department already saying that he was not justified in pulling his weapon and shooting using deadly force. >> take a look at that video. i do want to warn that it is disturbing. so give you that heads-up. tom, what we're going to be
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looking for, and you can analyze this afterwards, is when the man starts to run after he sees these -- >> get on the ground, get on the ground, get on the ground! >> it's horrific to listen to. it's horrific to listen to even though you don't see it on tape. but you are seeing here, tom, the lights from the taser. walk us through from a law enforcement perspective what you see here. >> first of all, from a law enforcement is you have a woman home alone with a 1-year-old screaming to 911 that somebody is trying to break into her home. they admit later that the damage he did kicking and pounding on her front door at the time she calls, house alarms going off. she's frantic thinking someone is trying to break in.
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when he is taking that stroll down the street that you first see in the dash cam, the officers have already been told that he may have been trying to do a home invasion. they don't know his mental situation. they don't know whether he's intoxicated or mentally ill or any of that. but they know -- they are responding to a violent crime in their mind. when you see him walking there, if he was going to surrender, all he had to do was stop and surrender and he's alive today. but, no, at the last second, you see him charge at that officer. you hear the officers yelling, get down, get down, get down, which he doesn't. >> sunny, your response in. >> i think what's important -- we want to talk about the victim. we always want to talk about had the victim not done something that victim would still be alive today. that's not the standard here. the officer in this case is the professional. it's something that i say day in and day out. the officer is the one with the training that is supposed to respond appropriately.
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the question is, did this officer respond appropriately to an unarmed man walking towards him and what we see, we don't know if he's charging at the officer. perhaps he is charging away from the officer. we don't know that. we know that three other officers determined that they should not use deadly force, that they did not need to use deadly force. and i think -- i'm just really uncomfortable with people constantly saying, had this civilian with no training simply done something else, that person would be alive. >> we are going to -- >> let's put the focus on the defendant for a change. >> we will pick this up after a quick break that i have to get in more on this shooting of an unarmed african-american man after a break. (vo) after 50 years of designing
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more now on the trial of a white police officer charged with volume with voluntary manslaughter of an unarmed african-american man. this is disturbing. it shows jonathan farrell, who had been in a car accident, walking towards officers and then he appears to be running towards him. the defense says that farrell was approaching aggressively. prosecutors say he was raising his hands in the air,
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non-threateningly when he was shot. none of this was caught on camera. we're back with don lemon and sonny hostin. the police received a call saying a man was trying to break into his home. it appears this man may have been trying to get assistance. there could have been this misunderstanding. although, don, there appears to have been this report that he had caused some sort of dent in the door. there's that as well. when you look at this case, do you see race playing a factor? >> as much as race plays a factor in anything. just from the evidence that we have at the surface, i don't see it. i don't see it. i do know that interactions between police officers and people of color are different when it is between police officers and people who are not of color. as much as that is a factor, yes. but i'm going to shock everyone here today and say -- >> that's a big factor.
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>> i'm about to agree with you, sonny. hold your horses. a degree with sunny, this is about training. this is about police ratcheting down the situation or deescalating the situation. if there were three officers there and they did not pull their guns and this one officer did, what is the disconnect between that officer and the other offices when it comes to training? tom is right, there was something that happened at the home. the 911 tape is very disturbing. you hear the alarm and the woman screaming. i'm not near my baby. this guy is trying to get in the home. it's unclear if he said that he was in a car wreck and that he needed help. but once he got to the scene, once he got to the scene, that situation should be judged on its own merit. >> tom, you say actually the officers -- both of them were following training. >> i think they would be. you could make a reasonable argument. that's the problem. to try to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt i think there's going to be doubt that what was in the mind of the officer when
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this gentleman at the last minute charges him. the fact that the other two officers or three oefrfficers didn't draw their guns -- by the time that happens and they are wrestling with each other, how are they going to shoot at that moment? you had the second cop testify today that he would have tried to choke him. he would have put him in a chokehold. the fact that they didn't draw their guns in that situation could only mean that they were worried about friendly fire. not only, but it's one possibility that they were worried about shooting their own officer. it was too late. i think that you see him walking toward the police officers. the police officers are probably ready to have a discussion. but he charges at them. you can't say that he is unarmed. in the officer's mind they don't know that. co-have he could have a gun under his shirt or in his waistband. that happens. all of these decisions in the cold light of day today are not the same as what an officer
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faced at 2:30 in the morning that night. >> tom fuentes, sunny, don, thank you. that is it for me. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" tonight, breaking news. donald trump says he has a bull's eye on his back as his fellow republicans attack him in the first debate of the 2016 race. my guest tonight, carly fioriona who took trump on directly. all eyes on jeb bush. he can recover from his stumbles? more airplane wreckage found off the coast of africa, if it's from mh370, what could it tell investigators about how the plane went down. let's go "outfront." good


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