tv CNN Newsroom With Fredricka Whitfield CNN November 7, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PST
hello, again, everyone. thanks so much for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield. we begin with breaking news in the deadly crash of that russian airliner in egypt. egyptian aviation officials are now revealing what they heard on those flight data recorders. >> a noise was heard in the last second of the cvr recording. a spectral analysis will be carried out by specialized labs in order to identify the nature of this noise. the committee noted media reports and analysis, some of which claim to be based on official intelligence, which favors a certain scenario, for the cause of the accident. the committee was not provided with any information or evidence in this regard.
the committee urged the sources of such reports to provide it with all information that could help us to undertake our mission. sixth, the committee is considering with a great attention all possible scenarios for the cause of the accident. >> so the media report that official referenced says the noise heard on that cockpit recording is the sound of an explosion and that explosion is not from an accident. the report also said the recordings reveal there was no sign of mechanical malfunction. this as isis is doubling down on its claims of responsibility in a new propaganda video. and egypt's foreign minister is saying the international community did not heed egypt's call to seriously deal with terrorism. so we're also learning that this is not the first time a passenger jet has been threatened in those skies. in august, a thompson airlines
plane narrowly avoided a missile when heading into sharm el sheikh. and today, the department of homeland security says it will tighten security for u.s.-bound flights in several international cities, including cairo, amman, and kuwait. let's get to our full coverage now of this story. nic robertson is in st. petersburg, russia. and nema is in sharm el sheikh, egypt. we just heard the head of the investigative team say, all scenarios are still on the table. we're talking a weak nek now, a really they said the same thing. so where does this investigation go? >> well, the new information that people will be jumping on is that sound that they say the recorder got in the last second. and that is something that they are unwilling, for obvious reasons, to speculate on. but it has been the focal point of a lot of speculation, including that france ii report. our cnn affiliates report this
was the sound of an explosion. that's what they're hearing from their sources. as you said, it doesn't feel like we've moved that much further along. and there's a reason for that. they say investigators haven't been able to access that site for the last three days, since wednesday, they say, bad weather has been hampering this investigation. what they're hoping to do is to get this plane to move all of the various parts to cairo, to a neutral and sterile environment, to be able to really try and take it apart there. i think what was really heartbreaking, when we were listening into that press conference is even though the lead investigator was trying very hard to use very, very measured language, for the families of the victims in this, to hear that the blasts or whatever this was, that broke this plane apart, was able to throw debris for 30 kilometers, that's going to be a very difficult image for them, fredricka. >> all right. thank you so much. so nic robertson in st.
petersburg. the russians have stopped all flights into egypt, similar to other country's airlines. so officially, the investigation is inconclusive, but we know the uk and u.s. have shared intelligence with the russians. but to what extent is russia assisting in this investigation or perhaps even, you know, deflecting some of the information coming out of it? >> the russians were promised by the egyptians that they would have a broad role in the investigation. 58 people, according to the egyptians, are involved in the investigation. seven of them, we're told, russians. the russian president, vladimir putin, talked again overnight last night with the egyptian president, president cici. they discussed the safety and security of all those russian, those russian holiday makers that are now sort of left stranded, if you will, in egypt. mostly, there's an estimated
78,000. now mostly in holiday destination sharm el sheikh. the russian president concerned for their safety, but also discussing with president cici that hopefully, they say, that they can get back to getting regular flights coming and going between the two countries. but it's far from regular right now. we're told that nine flights of russians came back from hugana and four from sharm el sheikh, but none were able to take their cargo luggage with them, their bags in the cargo hold. they were only allowed a few personal things, things like baby food or medication. 44 flights were scheduled today to go to egypt and bring back russians. it seems, so far, only a fraction of those flights have returned here. so it does seem that it will take quite a bit more time before all the russian tourists, at least, can get back home. fredricka? >> that's a huge number, 79,000
from your reporting on russians in egypt. that's pretty big. all right, nic robertson, thank you so much. so let's get more analysis now. joining us from new york, cnn contributor, michael weiss, the co-author of "isis: inside the army of terror." so, michael, good to see you,.egyptians didn't necessarily say it was a bomb this morning, but other investigators as well as the u.s. and uk believe that there has been some sort of explosion. so what does this tell you? if, indeed, isis, which insists some responsibility, what does it tell you about the seriousness of the isis threat or reach if, indeed, that group is responsible? >> well, i think the most alarming aspect so far, and again, this is assuming that this was, in fact, a bomb. i think it's quite right to stress that the investigation is still underway. the most alarming aspect to me is that it will have been done with an insider. somebody in the security services of sharm el sheikh airport or perhaps even within
the egyptian government. this could be somebody what was bribed by the isis affiliate in the peninsula or somebody who is ideologically on side with isis. and their grim apocalyptic vision. and this is deeply concerning, because egypt is in the midst of this national security crisis. i mean, in the peninsula, you've got this very sophisticated, i mean, i've been calling them it will farm team of isis, and i think i regret that now. it's a bit too flip. in july, these guys waged a pretty dramatic attack on 15 separate checkpoints, simultaneously. they killed about two dozen egyptian security services members or personnel. they were using anti-tank missiles, such as the russian-made anti-tank missile. and the egyptians said, we have to fight them like they're conventional military. this mirrors very closely the way isis in syria and iraq have comported themselves. fighting not so much as a guerilla insurgency, but almost as a quasi-military force.
>> if you talk about these 15 checkpoints, that's pretty significant, but probably most outside egypt of that region didn't know anything about that. so is there a feeling that the incidentsy rate involving isis in egypt has been underreported or perhaps even underestimated? >> well, i mean, look, egypt has suffered from, you know, islamist terrorism for the last several decades. this is not terribly new. there have been cases, in fact, of egyptian army soldiers or officers defecting, and essentially going over to the other side, either al qaeda or some offshoot. but i think what worries me the most, apart from, as i mentioned before, that there's people on the inside of the government who might be working with isis is that this is really a new debut for isis. this is exactly what they wanted to perpetrate, right? it's not just about emigration to the kacaliphate and expandin
it's about these spectacular attacks. >> -- the symbolism that comes with egypt. >> the most populous countries -- absolutely, one of the hashinger states of the middle east. so they're all over the place now. they've got branches or franchises in yemen, in libya, and i think now this is going to put the focus back on egypt. and it's making will ed sinai to come into its own. this prior branch has been loyal to al qaeda. and there is a cold and a hot war taking place within the ranks of international jihadism. isis is competing with its former patron, al qaeda. and it's competing exactly in this manner. how many crusaders infidels can we kill? and what kind of an impact can we have on the west and its government security forces. >> very complex. and until talking to you, i think very few of us realized how complex, indeed, it is. michael weiss, thank you so much for breaking it down for us.
see you again soon. appreciate it. when we come back, we'll have more on the crash investigation, plus how it can affect the u.s.-led coalition fight against isis. we'll ask former u.s. assistant secretary of state, jamie ruben, next. little did we know, but life was inviting us all this time. to step into the great unknown. in a place where riches... were measured in footsteps... flavors and friends. we tasted cuisine we'd only heard about and for the first time...
russian, egyptian, and u.s. vergs are all working furiously to determine what caused that deadly crash of that russian metrojet in sinai, egypt. today the officials said the flight data recorder revealed a noise in the seconds before the crash. they're looking at a potential scenarios, including the possibility that an isis bomb exploded on the plane. president obama says that could very well be the case and a u.s. official tells cnn the signs are increasingly pointing to isis as the culprit. joining us now from london, former assistant secretary of state, jamie ruben.
good to you see >> this to be with you. >> given your experience in the state department, take us into the white house. the meetings between the president, secretary kerry, members of national security. their discussions now about, wait a minute. if, indeed, we're going to commit our 50 special ops forces to syria and stir the nest there, so to speak, the beehive, so to speak, will what has just happened to this russian jetliner potentially happen to a u.s. interest? because isis is blaming russian's participation in syria as to why they would take down this plane? what's that conversation like now in the white house as to how the u.s. moves forward in its potential assault against isis? >> well, i think you're asking exactly the right question, because i think there are going to be two views. remember, we are now conducting an air campaign, a significant
bamming of almost dozens and dozens of countries, every day are launching air strikes against isis. we are effectively at war this organization and have been for over a year. and the reason we are is not just because they've taken over a portion of syria and iraq and we have interests in the middle east, the reason is because they're a terrorist organization. and up until now, we've been in a sense, fortunate, that isis has not had the intent to launch attacks against the west. because their capability is far, far greater than any terrorist organization we've faced before. remember, even al qaeda didn't have tens of thousands of brutal fighters willing to do things like burn jordanian soldiers alive, rape women, cut off people's heads. and they have an actual location, almost a country in which terrorist acts can be
planned, can be organized, terrorists can be trained. after 9/11, when al qaeda did that from afghanistan, our country, the united states, and our friends in europe, they said we'd never let that happen again, never let a global terrorist organization have the freedom to do that. well, so far, we thought, or it looks like the government thought that isis was focused on syria in iraq, on building this caliphate and protecting it. but if this signals a change in isis' intent, than this is a big wake-up call for the white house, for all the investigative agencies, and frankly, for all the governments in the west, because now we have people who have passports. remember, al qaeda had to come in with visas and student visas and hide their presence. but tens of thousands of these people have passports to europe and the united states. so if their goals have changed, this is going to be a very, very dangerous development, indeed.
>> so you said a couple of things there, a lot of things of interest, but one in particular, where you talk about isis taking over a country. you're talking about syria. you just heard from author michael weiss, who was just with us, who talked about an isis branch that was once loyal to al qaeda, who has now essentially taken over that entire territory in egypt, where this claim of responsibility may be originating. so now, what is your worry about egypt? because egypt has been that stabilizing force. and if now egypt is being taken over a territory, being taken over by this terrorist group, or being targeted in a very large way, how influential is that now? what kind of tone is that setting for the entire middle east? >> well, remember, hosni mubarak, the previous leader of egypt that we worked closely, was one of the strongest
counterterrorism fighters we had. he kept track of islamic extremists, put many of them in jail. he was always focusing his security services on that risk. when egypt had its democratic change, had the tahrir square demonstrations, the focus of egypt's leaders changed. and they didn't have the wherewithal and the extreme focus on fighting terrorist organizations. that's how this organization in the sinai grew, because nobody was minding the store. if that's changed now -- >> -- be made of saddam hussein and moammar gadhafi, that they, too, were able to keep counterterrorism groups at bay or at least strangulate them to a certain degree. they're no longer there, and now look at what has happened. do you see a correlation there, directly? >> well, there's no question that our invasion of iraq let loose some terrible, terrible
consequences. and one of them is that unlike the claims of vice president cheney all those years ago that iraq was a terrorist nation, now it really is. now there really is an isis located in a third of iraq and some third of syria and they have tens of thousands of dedicated fighters, willing to kill and die for their cause. so terrorism has been let loose in iraq and syria, in egypt assias well. the question has always been, what's their target? are they focused on their local problems? are they focused on building the caliphate, protecting its borders, collecting money, dealing with all these slaves we've heard about, where women are brought in, or are they fighting the west? are they going to launch jihad against us? and if that's what's happening now, that's a major worry. >> right. and when you talk about the mobility, the passports, the
influence now, is it even possible that the u.s. can make a dent? can help contain what is a growing problem? is the u.s. involvement the answer? >> well, somebody's going to have to do something here. if, indeed, we're seeing what it looks like we're seeing, namely a change of goals of isis and these tens of thousands of extremists are now going to be looking towards targets in the west, we're all going to have to get together and come up with a much, much better plan, having a few special forces and a few bombing raids is not going to protect us. remember, after 9/11, we said we'd never let this happen again. we'd never let a place be used to train and plan for global terrorism. and that now looks like it's going on, in egypt, in iraq, in syria, and it's much, much more dangerous than people are letting on. >> all right. jamie ruben, always good to see you. thank you so much for joining us. >> you're welcome.
another story that we are following right here in the u.s., a 6-year-old child killed, shot several times by police during a car chase with his father behind the wheel. now the two officers are under arrest and facing serious charges. that is next. when it comes to helping you reach your financial goals,t taking small, manageable steps can be an effective... and enjoyable approach... compared to the alternatives. push! i am pushing! sfx: pants ripping how you doing eddie? almost there. small steps. at axa, we'll help you take the next steps, with more confidence. for advice, retirement and insurance, talk to axa today. spending the day with my niece. that make me smile. i don't use super poligrip for hold, because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well fitting dentures let in food particles. just a few dabs of super poligrip free
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murder in the shooting death of a 6-year-old boy after a police chase. cnn's nick valencia has more. >> late last night, two police officers taken into custody, charged with killing a 6-year-old boy in marsdale, louisiana. >> and tonight, that badge has been tarnished by the following two individuals. >> reporter: city police officers norris greenhouse jr. and derrick stafford are facing second-degree murder charges in the death of jeremy mardis tuesday night. they're also facing attempted murder charges. both were working secondary jobs as marshals. investigators say the two men were pursuing a vehicle driven by the boy's father, chris few, when the chase stopped on a dead end street. police say that's where the officers opened fire. the 6-year-old was apparently buckled in the front seat. >> jeremy mardis, 6 years old. he didn't deserve to die like that. and that's what's important. >> cnn affiliate wafb says
mardis was hit five times in the head and chest. his father was critically injured. state police say no gun was found in few's car. circumstances surrounding the chase are unclear. >> i don't know what he was thinking. i don't know why he wouldn't just stop. he didn't do nothing wrong. >> the incident was captured on police body cameras. footage, which has not been released, left state investigators shocked. >> i'm not going to talk about it, but i'm going to tell you this, it is the most disturbing thing i've seen. and i will leave it at that. >> nick valencia, cnn, atlanta. >> and the funeral service for that little boy, jeremy mardis, is set for monday. we'll be right back. ♪ it's the final countdown! ♪
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witch hunt. the media has been asking questions about childhood stories that he tells in his autobiography and references repeatedly on the campaign trail. the stories include an incident in which he tried to stab a friend and another where he tried to attack his own mother with a hammer. well, during a q&a with reporters last night, carson slammed the press for digging into his past. >> i think what it shows, and these kinds of things show, is that there is a desperation on behalf of some to try to find a way to tarnish me, because they have been looking through everything. they have been talking to everybody i've ever known, everybody i've ever seen. there's got to be scandal. there's got to be some nurse he's having an affair with. there's got to be something. they are getting desperate. so next week it will be my kindergarten teacher who said i need in my pants. it's just ridiculous. but it's okay, because i totally expect it. >> okay. our political panel is here to weigh in with me right now in
atlanta. jackie gingrich cushman, who was an adviser to her father, newt gingrich's, campaign. and in dallas, katrina pearson, a leader in the national tea party movement, who also ran as a republican for congress in texas. ladies, good to see both of you. >> thank you. >> jackie, you first. so is this fair game to talk about his past, to talk about his childhood, especially when he's written about it, went on the campaign trail, went in a host of interviews, he's brought it up and talked about it. is it fair game to ask more about it? >> absolutely. i think what's interesting, if you watched how the last 24 hours have unfolded, you saw politico having to change their lead and change their headlines. yes, you can talk about it and ask questions, but i think you need to be very careful and make sure that all the facts are straight before anything is published. so i think that's kind of the tension. >> that is a principle of journalism. >> absolutely. >> and we still have yet to hear from politico as to what happened in their reporting. >> absolutely. and i think that's the thing to
remember. he wrote his autobiography and wrote about growing up. i don't know about you, but i probably remember things differently than people that were around me. i think you have to give a little bit of that sense. and additionally, if you hold him to his word, you have to think about, hillary clinton, who talked about being under this microphone in bosnia, he said he misremembered that, and kind of given, oh, that's okay. this is about his childhood and how he has created himself. i think you need to take it with a grain of salt. >> so essentially, there has to be a little wiggle room for everybody's life story or account of events, and that should be excused, or do you see it will potentially impact the narrative, you know, of their life, their campaign, their story, and what voters should be interpreting from that? >> absolutely, it does inform the voters. let me give you a for instance. for instance, hillary clinton, the bosnia, coming out and saying she was dead broke after she left the white house. hillary clinton and the e-mails. if you look at her numbers, 61% of the voters view her as
untrustworthy. so as people hear things, that makes a difference. as for ben carson, i think because he's a political outsider, and i think because he's really built his story on who he is, i think people may view him differently. and you also have to think about his supporters and how they'll respond, because a lot of this race has been media versus the candidates. and so you have a different narrative, different from his, going on as well. >> katrina, i wonder. because these polls are showing that ben carson is the most trustworthy. he is the most honest, according to these numbers. 62% saying it's ben carson who's honest and trustworthy. so you just heard jackie say, you know, in the case of hillary clinton, not necessarily or getting some of the facts wrong, talking about the bosnia case, that leads to the fact that she's not as trustworthy. is there going to be an erosion of ben carson's trustworthiness, because there are people who say, i grew up with him, i was a
neighbor of ben and i don't necessarily remember it that way. >> well, we'll have see, fredricka, because this is just the beginning. but he is running for president and the questions that are being asked are very normal questions. i don't think this is a witch hunt just yet. however, jackie is right, you know, hillary clinton is not going to be treated the same way as any republican. but this is also not breaking news, fredricka. ben carson is a republican. he is a black republican, at least this year, running for president. he's been campaigning, saying he knows the media is going to come after him and come after him hard, and he says, i'm ready. but apparently, he's not ready. what is going to happen when ben carson has to face the clinton machine? because they're not going to just stop at digging for neighbors. they're going to go out and find people. they'll dig up people that can contradict his story one way or the other. >> you just brought up something very interesting, he is a black man running for president. and it's interesting whether it be last night or prior to that
in the interview with allison cameron, you know, here on cnn "new day," he talked about, you know, president obama didn't receive the same kind of scrutiny that he is enduring. >> that's right. >> and he made that comparison. and it's an interesting comparison, in which to make, because there was a lot of scrutiny of then senator obama before he was elected. but ben carson didn't talk about any other candidate. what does that mean? how do you interpret that, that he is drawing comparisons between his campaign and that of then senator barack obama? >> well, i think it's a way to detract from the perceived attacks that he's getting. we didn't see classmates of barack obama. he didn't see ex-girlfriends or neighbors of barack obama during this time. and he's absolutely right. this is why it's going to help him with his base. only if it stops here. if things begin to unravel further, that's when ben carson will start to unravel. >> hmm. jackie? >> i think you'll have to wait
and see. every time you have a front-runner that goes in the top of the field and he and donald trump were obviously in the front, this is what happens. and if you watch down the polling, i mean, rubio is now getting a lot of focus, because he's rising in the polls. this is what happens in every race. the higher you go, the more scrutiny you're under. >> and you also said a moment ago, it has been more contentious between the media and the contenders. however, donald trump, you brought him up. bru donald trump is teething on this moment with ben carson. and he has said it out loud, he counterpunches, he doesn't go after his fellow contenders. he did seize on the moment with marco rubio as well. we are seeing that it's contentious among candidates and isn't that what happens during a race for the white house? >> it does, some, but what's interesting if you look at the debates, it's much more, there's some policy differences and some contention between the candidates, but a huge difference between the candidates and the news media
themselves. i think it would be. these candidates are bringing up these issues. there is a lot of criticism about each other, the personas, the biographies of, was is it up to these candidates to try to drive home the issues? >> well, this is a competition, and so, yes, it is up to the candidates to sort of lead on those issues and draw the distinctions between each other. and that's where we are today. this race is closing in on the first polling in iowa. so they have to go out there, and they have to fight for themselves, because what we're facing moving forward is a very different world and a very different time and we don't have time to take chances on candidates we think might or might not be a good president. >> interesting, katrina pierson and jackie gingrich cushman, thank you so much. those last names always get me. i've got one too.
it trips me up all the time. we'll get much more on politics straight ahead. first, we want to introduce you to another one of our top ten cnn heroes, dr. daniel evan kovich. watched low-income patients in chicago suffer and get sicker because they couldn't afford medical care. >> there's over a million people in chicago that are essentially invisible to the system. they're either uninsured or they're underinsured, but they're very important to me and that's what i've dedicated my career to. my focus is to improve their lives, to break down the barrier, and help them reach their potential with regard to their injuries. >> all right. you can vote for your choice for cnn hero of the year at cnnheroes.com. i have type 2 diabetes.
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all right. the revelations are nothing short of shocking. a man known to many as a model cop turns out to be very crooked. one that led to faking his own suicide. an audit was ready to reveal lieutenant joe gliniewicz as embezzling funds and recovering texting alleged that he ryed to hire a hit man to kill the woman auditing department accounts. now his widow and son are said to be targets of investigators who want to find out how much they knew about these startling revelations. all of this painting an entirely different and shameful picture of the police officer. cnn's rosa flores has details from fox lake, illinois. >> reporter: sex, lies, and
drugs. new revelations downgrading a man hailed a hero to a new low. lieutenant joe gliniewicz's personnel file exposing serious character flaws that documents show led to at least five suspensions, for things like being involved in the incorrect release of information, for not reporting to duty, and for negligence that resulted in damage to village property. >> the file also explains in detail how a eputy found lieutenant gliniewicz completely passed out inside his truck on the side of the road, the engine still running, his foot on the gas, full throttle. it would take two deputies to wake him up. lieutenant gliniewicz would later tell his superiors he had been awake all day long, had played volleyball, consumed six beers and several shots. . but perhaps the most shocking revelation, this lawsuit filed by a subordinate police officer in 2003.
alleging gliniewicz asked her to meet him in a hotel to give her her son's police explorer uniform. but once inside, the mood changed. according to the filing, he gave her a box of chocolates for valentine's day, rubbed her shoulders, and pressured her to perform oral sex. it didn't stop there. according to court documents, the subordinate claimed she performed oral sex on gliniewicz five times in total, between february 2000 and october of the same year. with gliniewicz indicating to her that the sexual favors were strongly encouraged and all required to protect her job. the suit was eventually dismissed. but not erased from his personnel file, where it's noted along with a slew of other complaints about him. drugs were not referenced. authorities say they found those in an unmarked evidence bag in
his desk. like everything else surrounding gliniewicz's death, it's raising more questions about his life. >> all right. rosa flores now joining us from fox lake. so rosa, what more do we know about these drugs? >> reporter: authorities say, fred, that there was cocaine. cocaine inside an unmarked evidence bag in his desk. now, authorities started searching, trying to figure out if he was working on any sort of cases that involved controlled substances and he was not, they say. they didn't find that at all. but they did find deleted text messages that alluded to the fact that he wanted to plant evidence on the village administrator. that same village administrator that you mentioned before this piece, that he was exploring, thinking about, according to authorities, asking a gang member to kill her, so a lot of
unnerving revelations here, fred. and the more that we dig for information, the more we find. fred? >> wow, an extraordinary set of events. that's for sure. thanks so muff, rosa flores, appreciate that. all right. one organization donated thousands of dollars to lieutenant gliniewicz's family, and now they want their money back. we're talking to our legal guys about that, next. for adults with an advanced lung cancer called "squamous non-small cell", previously treated with platinum-based chemotherapy, it's not every day something this big comes along. a chance to live longer... with opdivo, nivolumab. opdivo is the first and only immunotherapy fda approved based on a clinical trial demonstrating longer life for these patients. in fact, opdivo significantly increased the chance of living longer versus chemotherapy. opdivo is different.
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an organization that assists the families of police officers killed in the line of duty are now demanding the family of that illinois police officer who staged his suicide to return the donated funds. the 100 club of chicago gave lieutenant charles gliniewicz's family $15,000. let's dig in deeper with our legal guys, avery friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor in cleveland. good to see you. >> hi, fredricka. >> and richard herman in new york, criminal law professor and attorney joining us from las vegas. good to see you as well. >> hi, fred. >> avery, it's unclear whether the family has given the money back or even wants to, but the charity says it's demanding that money back. what can happen if the family doesn't willingly return it? >> well, the family is going to argue, look, this was a voluntary gift and there was no consideration, no quid pro quo, and therefore, whether he died doing something legitimate or he committed inside, the family is
going to argue, well, that's our gift. they cared about us and we're not going to give it back. i think, morally, they should, but legally, i understand what their argument could be. and it may actually work. i think the likelihood of the foundation getting the money back, for better or worse, is very, very unlikely. >> so richard, even if the widow and the son may also be centerpieces of an investigation now, would that be, you know, grounds for the charity to say, you know, we deserve our money back? >> yeah, you hit it on the head, fred. if the family was involved here in this, and they were participating and co-conspirators and participated with knowledge and created this whole fraud, then i think there will be a court order for them to return the money. but absent that, fred, it's very, very difficult to get a gift returned. the very nature of the transaction is a simple definition, intent to make a gift and delivery. once that's done, it's over.
and unless, you know, like an engagement ring situation, where the marriage is not consummated, you can normally get the ring back. otherwise, in this situation here, fred, unless the family is culpable and participated with their own knowledge to create the fraud, i agree with avery. i don't believe the foundation will get the money back. >> i mean, is the family culpable for suicide? the money was given because of the death of an officer. whether he was killed in the line of duty or whether he killed himself. i think the family's argument is, look it, we lost our father, we lost our husband, and therefore, that's why the gift was given. that's what the argument by the family is going to be. >> right. except, i guess the investigation now is, if, indeed, lieutenant gliniewicz, who is alleged to have stolen, you know, tens of thousands of dollars from this youth program, and if the family knew about it or knew about how he was trying
to conceal or hide this money, that they could potentially be culpable as well. so in the case of an officer, you know, dying in the line of duty, there might be, right, pension, life insurance, that kind of compensation that would go to the family. this happened roughly two months ago and we're hearing now from the police department about where this investigation has gone and they've concluded that this was suicide, carefully planned, et cetera. might any of that money have already within dispensed to the family? and does that change, you know, the privilege of getting that money, if it's suicide versus dying in the line of duty. avery? >> yeah, i think it's going to be more difficult to get the money back. there are some other issues in this, fredricka, that are very important. when gliniewicz called in, he said he was chasing suspect, three of them, and of course the obligatory black suspect, that didn't exist. and then the law enforcement legal defense fund came out and blamed gliniewicz's death --
ready for this -- on black lives matter. that gives you a pretty good idea how bizarre this whole case is, not the least of which is whether or not this gift is going to be returned. the case is a total mess. >> so, i wonder what that -- richard, really quickly, would that build a case, too. for anyone who would feel like they were unnecessarily pursued, challenged, you know, defamed, hurt, anything, might they have a case then against the police department, really quickly? i know we're out of time, but because of that? >> i don't think so, fred. but to answer your question, the money may have been disseminated to the family, and if it has, it's going to be very, very difficult to get a return of that money. i'm sure they spent it or it's gone. going to be very difficult, fred. >> all right. we're going to leave it there. thanks so much, guys. always good to see you. avery, richard, thank you. and we'll be right back. i'm country singer craig morgan and nashville is my city.
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