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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  March 17, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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and that's it for us. thanks for watching. "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts now. trump's talk of riots if he didn't get the resignation has the gop up in arms. >> nobody should say such things in my opinion. because to even address or hint to violence is unacceptable. >> this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. conservatives plotting a convention to stop donald trump. but is it all too little too late? plus a political ad that everyone is talking about. >> when the head of the ku klux klan with all these weird groups come out in favor of the candidate of my party, either
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they're not republicans or i'm not. >> but it's not from today's campaign. it's from 1964. and that's not the only weird parallel between a long ago election and today's campaign. lots going on tonight. let's begin with cnn national reporter maeve reston. the anti-trump force is gathering steam. but it is too late? >> i think that's the big question here. as we look ahead at the next couple of months, they had such a short amount of time in which to pour a ton of money into defining this candidate. everyone is trying to figure out whether the attacks that led up to tuesday night worked at all or if they just didn't have time to sink in. so this is a big conversation going on right now among donors, among people within the party about whether or not to keep those anti-trump dollars rolling in, and whether they're actually working and where they can be most effective. >> maeve, a lot of establishment
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republicans turned their nose up at ted cruz. they said the day he endorsed cruz and the poison and said he would raise money for him, is that the measure of a desperation to stop trump right now? >> yes, it is, i think. there is a lot of desperation out there to stop trump. just talking to political strategist others the last couple days. everyone right now is hitting the books, trying to understand the delegate rules in each of these states, whether or not if they can deprive donald trump of that 1,278 number. whether they can support their forces at the convention. everyone is studying '76 and other times when they've gotten close to these kind of cataclysmic moments for the party. so it's just a big moment for the republican party has to figure out whether the risk is greater by allowing donald trump to be the nominee, or if they're going to risk completely fracturing the party by going up against him at the convention.
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of course -- >> i'm sorry. go ahead. >> marco rubio he and ted cruz still would like to win outright, which would save a lot of trouble for the party. but it's looking tougher and tougher for that to happen. >> again, pardon me for that. marco rubio, he suspended his campaign. but he is still speak out. he told reporters today there is still time to stop trump. he is also talk about his own political future. let's listen. >> would you consider being cruz's vice president? >> no. i'm not going to be anybody's vice president. i'm not interested in being vice president. i don't mean that in a disrespectful way. i'm not going to be vice president. i'm not running for governor of florida. i'm going to finish out my term in the senate over the next ten months. we're going to work really hard here. we have some things we want to achieve, and then i'll be a private citizen in january. >> maeve, you know how these things go, despite what he says do, you think we're going to see a cruz-rubio ticket or a rubio endorsement? >> we very potentially could see a rubio endorsement pretty soon.
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the thing that he has to balance is his own political future going forward. whether what point it makes sense for him to really get in. but there is going to be tons of pressure on rubio because, of course, he has delegates that he has won for the course of these contests. and right now kasich and cruz would like to sweep up all of those people, as well as other rubio supporters in future states. so we'll have to see what he does. i think, you know, there is not a lot of love for ted cruz, as we've all been talking. but everyone thinks that it's just a very, very narrow path for john kasich to the nomination. so we'll have to see what happens. >> speaker of the house paul ryan continues to field questions about the possibility of becoming the nominee in the event of a contested convention. let's listen to that, maeve. >> it's not going to be me. it should be somebody running for president. people are out there campaigning. they're canvassing there is caucuses and primaries. that's who we should select from among for our next president.
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>> didn't he kind of say something similar about being speaker of the house? do you thank you he could be persuade. >> right. but this is a whole different ball game, right. you have to think about. you've been to these trump rallies as well. you've felt the electricity in those crowds, how much passion and support there is for donald trump among the people that are supporting him. and the fact that we're even talking about paul ryan being drafted, you know, as the republican nominee, or any other number of people is just, you know, another crazy mind-blowing moment in this cycle. but the question is how much of a backlash would there be toward the party as all of these republican party elders continue talking about other alternatives. >> right. as trump says. >> what happens to his support, right? >> could there be riots do you believe, as trump says? >> well, i think -- i think that there definitely would be protests. i spent a lot of time in florida over the last week at his rallies, actually talking to his people about what they would do if the republican party tried to
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block him at the convention. and a lot of them said i will be all in. i will do whatever it takes to help this man get elected. we've seen violence, very unsettling moments at a lot of trump's rallies. so, you know, at this point, anything is possible. and the party has a lot to think about how they keep everything under control at the convention if you do end up with a contested convention. >> maeve reston, i appreciate that i want to bring in hugh hewitt, the host of the hughhewitt show. you doing okay? >> good evening, mr. lemon. how are you? >> it's good to see you. i'm doing great. the establishment is in an all out frenzy plotting to take down donald trump. it too little too late? >> well, donald says he is the great unifier. he has brought ted cruz and lindsey graham together. so i guess he is right. i think what you're going to see now is that it is not going to be speaker ryan, it's going to be donald trump, ted cruz or governor kasich. of the three as i step back, i
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haven't endorsed anyone. i'm not in favor or against anyone, i think ted cruz is likely to be the nominee. because all of the forces that are coming to bear right now on donald trump are institutional. and strange things have happened. when you have lindsey graham step out in favor of ted cruz and yale wins an ncaa ii basketball game, it's just a matter of time until the klingons hit the earth. it's such a weird set of circumstances. but the institutional best interests of the republican party seem to point toward a ted cruz nomination. i think he is going to win in utah next week, even though donald trump is probably going to win arizona. ted cruz is making a quick trip to arizona to go down to the border next week. that means his people might think he has a chance to pull it out. a rubio endorsement would help that might come as early as tomorrow, according to marc caputo, who is reporting for politico. so there is a lot of moving parts out there. watch scott walker, within of the most influential republicans. one of the early leaders in this scramble for the presidency. he withdrew with dignity with
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his political capital intact. and the wisconsin winner-take-all primary is going to be sort of the make or break it day for ted cruz. i think he's got to win up in wisconsin. >> a lot of things i want to talk about. you know how it is in television, a as you do in radio. we have limited time. so if you could get through them quickly. i'm interested in what you're saying. you said it's pointing towards a ted cruz nomination? did you just say that? >> yeah. i look ahead. if you lock at three stocks, don't tell me what they were valued yesterday. don't tell me what they were valued last year. tell me what they're going to be worth in ten weeks when we get to california. and i interviewed today mike schroeder, who is the past chairman of the california republican party. he wrote the rules in 1998 as to how california's republican delegates will be allocated. and mike kicked them in 2006. so no one would have any question of self-interest. and it works this way, don. you win three delegates for every congressional district that you win. so the maxine waters district
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with maybe 3,000 republicans in it gets three delegates. dana rohrabacher's congressional district with a quarter million people gets three delegates. so you've got 54 elections out here. 172 delegates total. and if people want to read that interview, send them over to hugh i'll pretend to be a presidential candidate. >> shameless. >> that interview is fascinating. a shameless plug for information. i don't see anyone except the stock that is rising right now is ted cruz's. i think donald trump has peak and will stay the safe. but right now i see cruz rising. >> okay. i got you. john kasich has been reluctant to criticize trump. have i the glasses on because i want to read this. he responded to the riot remarks. he tweeted this. okay. donald trump said there could be riots if he is denied the gop nom in a contested convention. that's more unacceptable language, john. he said this up implicit insistence of violence of rhetoric is pulling people
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aapart. leadership requires responsibility. i have faith the american people want civilized debate over violence. it's what's kept our nation the strongest in the world. do you think we're going to see a war of words now between donald trump and john kasich, hugh? >> john kasich is a very experienced politician. i'd add, don, in ohio, i'm an ohioan. he is an ohioan. we have memories of violence in kent state. i have a very vivid memory that of day. my cousin was on the campus. the idea that violence would attend political demonstration is anna theathema to buckeyes. he wants to keep lines of communication open. it's unfortunate that donald walked a way from the next debate. i think we need more debates. and everyone's got to remember that we don't talk about violence and political speech in the united states. so i salute the governor for saying that. i'm sure donald trump will tone that back. he doesn't want violence. i'm sure that's very obvious. but the key thing is kasich went
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to utah, which is kind of interesting since mike lee has backed cruz very heavily, and cruz is probably going to win the state. kasich may be trying to keep him under 50%. but if you do the math and get way in the weeds, there is a question whether or not rule 40 will even be prone because cruz people and rule 40 is how many states you got to win to get nominated. cruz people and trump people may work together to keep cruz from being nominated. and then all those unbound delegates after ballot 1, what happens to them? great piece by zeke millner "time" magazine today. it's a rodeo. it's a rodeo without rules. and we haven't seen it before. >> i want to ask you about this group of faith leaders and fiscal conservatives that met today to try to come up with a strategy to deny trump the nomination there is talk of unmasking trump in ads. the strategy to target delegates and even turn them. even the possibility of a third party unity ticket. does any of that sound like it's going to be effective, or it is even realistic, hugh? just won florida despite $15 million in ads against him.
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>> oh, it's not realistic, although it is realistic for people to signal where conservatives are. mike ferris who is in that meeting, one of the most respected conservative educator out there. erick erickson is my colleague on the radio waves. very well respected tea party originator. they're all signaling vote for ted cruz. i'm not doing that on my show. it's still belgium before the wars. i don't know who is going to invade it, but they're all welcome there. what is happening is i think there is a signal there. what happens tomorrow, i think if marco rubio comes out for ted cruz and other people follow lindsey graham's lead, you're going to find the natural center-right, right alliance coming behind ted cruz because he is more electable in her eyes than donald trump. >> hugh hewitt, always a pleasure. see you soon. >> thank you, don. happy st. patrick's day. >> you as well. when we come back, the gop at war with itself as anti-trump forces battle the front-runner. is there a new republican candidate waiting in the wings?
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the move by conservative republicans to stop donald trump from getting the nomination becomes more urgent by the day. many are banking on a fight at the convention to knock him out. i want to talk about this gop race with cnn political commenter jeffrey lord and margaret hoover. jeffrey joins me via skype. nonetheless, we'll try to talk to him as well. >> and happy st. patrick's day to you, don. >> happy st. patrick's day. i'm wearing green, but you'll
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have to figure out where it is. any way, reince priebus's insists a nominee will be in place soon and there will not be a brokered convention. is he right, margaret? >> he is -- nobody knows. the sort of hook that everybody is hanging their lat on who is not a trump supporter is this outlier possibility. and it is an outlier possibility still. >> right. >> donald trump has to win slightly more than 5% of the remaining delegates. ted cruz would have to win 80% of the remaining delegates. >> 50% is not that hard, is it? >> no. he's winning every segment of the population, every sort of demographic group within the republican cohort. so, you know, from my perspective, and i'm not a trump supporter the way jeffrey is, i just think we got to get rounded in reality here. our time to stop the trump train was months ago. >> okay. i'm glad you said that. why is everyone kind of sitting here and saying oh, this happened, this happened. we pretty much know what's going to happen. >> because people like me who
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worked in politics who thought the republican party was for certain things are horrified that we've let this person, who is not even by any stretch of the imagination a republican, let alone a conservative, right in the front door and is going to drive the train away from the station. they're still this denial about it. and now jeffrey is going to tell me i'm wrong. >> it is kind of denial. we're sitting here pretending like it's going on trump. the nominee could be cruz. it very well could be cruz. but if things are going the way they're going, it looks like it's going to be trump. jeffrey, no? >> just from a historical perspective, i looked back at all the races since john f. kennedy in 1960, in every single case the guy leading going into the convention became the nominee. there are no exceptions to this. and that's in both parties. whether it was jfk or barry
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goldwater or nixon in '68, hubert humphrey in '68. on and on and on. gerald ford beat ronald reagan. the law of averages here is pretty much on the side of donald trump. >> you just basically said what we both were saying. what is the likelihood a of a new candidate being introduced a brokered convention? >> i think that's even lower. a contested convention is not outside of the house. you even had paul ryan today, the speaker of the house who is also the ceremonial chair. even though he says it won't be me, he acknowledges there is this pocket that donald trump doesn't get to the 1,237 beforehand, in which case you do have to have a contested. convention and multiple rounds of voting. in that case, it has to be somebody who has run for president. he says of course it's not going on him, but it seems incredibly unlikely. >> so it's got to be somebody who is in. who else could it be?
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couldn't be anybody else? >> the only other person is paul ryan who could potentially do it. even as an ardent paul ryan supporter and fan wouldn't want him to do that. because the republican party as fractured as it is right now, we don't have -- talking about going back and looking at history, we don't win as a party if we're not unified. we just simply don't and we are not unified now. i would hate for that to happen to paul ryan or any of these candidates. not only will it damage the party, it will damage the person who is running. >> before you respond, jeffrey, i79 you to listen to donald trump on cnn's "new day." here is what he had to say about the possibility of a brokered convention. >> i think you'd have riots. i'm representing a tremendous, many, many millions of people. in many cases, first-time voters. these are people who never voted because they didn't believe in the system, they didn't like candidates, et cetera, et cetera. if you disenfranchise those people and say, i'm sorry, you're 100 votes short, even though the next person is 500 votes short, i think bad things
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would happen. i really do. i believe that. i wouldn't lead it but i think bad things would happen. >> so a lot of people upset about the riots. we have heard for a number of days. do you think people are putting too much stock in those words? >> yes. i was with magazine rhett last night and i've said this. i've been on panels on anderson's show where more or less a number of people on -- analysts and commentators alike agreed there would be an open revolt, if he got close, if donald trump got close and there was some scheme to basically steal the nomination. there would be a problem. and my answer was if this were like 1976 with reagan and ford, where reagan genuinely lost by 117 votes on the convention floor, that's one thing. if it becomes like 1912 where teddy roosevelt was accusing the other side of theft and stomped out, yeah, big problem here.
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you don't want to go down that road ever. and frankly, it doesn't matter whether it's donald trump or anybody else who is within a hair's breath of the nomination. that's just not a good place to be. >> margaret, were you disagreeing that people are putting too much stock in it? >> it's the choice of words, the riots and the continued pugilistic language in an environment that is like a tinderbox and it is incredibly irresponsible, i think, of donald trump to continue using language that it really suggests that he is provoking violence and almost sounds like a veiled threat. >> i want to get this in real quickly, jeffrey. lindsey graham had a dramatic change of heart. watch this. >> if you're republican and you're donald trump and ted cruz in the general election the difference between poison or shot, you're still dead. >> if you kill ted cruz on the floor of the senate and the trial is in the senate, nobody would convict you. >> i'm going to be doing a fund-raiser for senator cruz. he's not my preference but he's
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a reliable republican conservative, which i've had many differences with. i doubt donald trump's conservatism and i think he'd be a disaster for the party. so i'm going to try to help raise money for senator cruz and the community. >> boy, and i thought the news business was a strange business. now he is hosting a fundraiser for ted cruz on monday. go ahead. >> there is more to the story. there is more to the story. when we were in las vegas for the cnn debate, senator lindsay graham approached me personally and said he could never under any circumstances vote for ted cruz and that he would be more than happy to support donald trump. now, here we are, you want to know why lindsay graham lost the south carolina primary and why anything he says has no credibility? i mean, he told me that -- >> he didn't lose the south carolina primary.
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>> well, hello, there is you go. >> he looked me right straight in the eye and said he preferred donald trump over ted cruz. now he's saying exactly the opposite. >> here's what -- really quickly, though. look, lindsey graham doesn't think ted cruz is going win the presidency. but what he does want is for the republican party to not be blown to pieces. so what he is saying i'd rather have my lot in with somebody who at least we can lose 40 state, we can rebuild the republican party rather than putting somebody who is is not a republican in and losing disastrously. >> thank you, both. that's it. last word. i appreciate it. up next -- a 50-year-old ad that is ear live similar to today's race. >> when the head of the ku klux klan, when all these weird groups come out in favor of the candidate of my party, either they're not republicans or i'm not. bend me shape me, any way you want me
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johnson in the battle against republican senator barry goldwater. joining me is william bogart, the actor featured in the ad. welcome. thank you for coming on. >> it's very kind of you to have you. >> may i call you bill? >> i wish you would. >> we're going to may the entire ad. let's listen to it. >> i don't know just why i wanted to call this a confession. i certainly don't feel guilty about being a republican. i've always been a republican. my father is, his father was. the whole family is a republican family. i voted for dwight eisenhower the first time i voted and nixon the second time. but when it comes to senator goldwater, now it seems to me we're up against a very different kind of a man.
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this man scares me. now maybe i'm wrong. a friend of mine has said to me, listen, just because a man sounds a little irresponsible during a campaign doesn't mean he's going to act irresponsibly you know that theory, that the white house makes the man. i don't buy that. you know what i think makes a president, aside from his judgment, his experience, the men behind him, his advisers, the cabinet, and so many men with strange ideas are working for goldwater. you'll hear a lot about what these guys are against. seem to be against just about everything. but what are they for? the hardest thing for me about this whole campaign is to sort out one goldwater statement from another. a reporter will go to senator goldwater and say senator, on such and such a day, you said, and i quote, blah blah blah, end quote. and goldwater says, "well, i wouldn't put it that way." i can't follow that. was he serious when he did put
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it that way this was he serious when he didn't put this it that way? i just don't get it. a pat ought to mean what he says. president johnson, johnson at least is talking about facts. he says, look, we got the tax cut bill and because of that you get to carry home x number of dollars more every pay day. we got the nuclear test ban, and because of that there is x percent less radioactive in the food. but goldwater, often you can't -- often i can't figure out what goldwater means by the things he says. i read now where here says a craven fear of death is sweeping across america. what is that supposed to mean? if he means that people don't want to fight a nuclear war, he's right. i don't. when i read some of these things that goldwater says about total victory, i get a little worried, you know? i wish i was as sure that goldwater was against war as he is against other things. i wish i could believe he has
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the imagination to be able to just shut his eyes and picture what this country would look like after a nuclear war. sometimes i wish i'd been at that convention in san francisco. i wish i'd been a delegate, i really do. because i would have fought, you know. and i wouldn't have worried so much about party unity. it you unite behind a man you don't believe in, it's a lie. i tell you, those people who got control of that convention, who are they? i mean, when the head of the ku klux klan, when all these weird groups come out in favor of the candidate of my party, either they're not republicans or i'm not. i thought about just not voting
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in this election, just staying home, but you can't do that because that's saying you don't care who wins and i do care. i think my party made a bad mistake in san francisco, and i'm going to have to vote against that mistake on the 3rd of november. >> vote for president johnson on november 3rd. the stakes are too high for you to stay home. >> interesting. what a performance, first of all. >> that guy was terrific. >> that guy is you. does that take you back? do you remember the day did you that? >> oh, yes. i remember. there are some things that i don't remember. one of the things that i was talking about before i think i mentioned it to christy, and i just mentioned it to rachel. as far as i know, and i may be wrong about this, this was only shown once, but it made a
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tremendous impression. >> and you're talking to christy and rachel. those are my producers that you're talking about. based on that ad, you came from a republican family. you did that because not because you were an actor but you believed that. >> yes. but unfortunately, the last republican i voted for was john lindsey. >> really? >> yes. because in those day, of course, the republican party was the party of lindsey, of jacob javitz, people like that, to a somewhat lesser degree nelson rockefeller. now i feel about almost all the current nominees the way i felt about mr. goldwater. no, worse than that. because senator goldwater was a very good senator. he did a lot of good things, he was a blessing to the people of arizona, and i don't see that. >> why do you say worse now? in that ad you said this
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goldwater scares you. you talk about the political climate then. what about the political climate now? how does that scare you? >> it's worst. >> worse than goldwater? >> yes. in goldwater's time essentially the only major threat that we had was russia. and russia has had all the same reasons for not going to nuclear war than we did. now we got isis, we've got -- i can't remember the names of all these -- >> al qaeda, isis -- >> yeah, yeah. and a lot of them are producing suicide bombers. give a suicide bomber a hand grenade, that's one thing. give them an atomic bomb, that's another thing altogether. >> a lot of people are saying trump scares them. does he scare you? >> yes. >> why? >> because i think his ego is essentially uncontrollable, and
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that means that he could be badgered into something that would be truly outrageous and very unfortunate. >> the ads you refer to the 1964 convention, you talk about the kkk and other extreme groups, we just talked about that, about other groups. did it bother you when trump seemed to waffle? he said he denounced them. when he seemed to waffle about the kkk, did that bother you? >> yeah, a lot. i don't understand why -- i don't understand how he could be more dismissive of the guys that were running against him than he could be against the head of the ku klux klan. it just doesn't make any sense. >> what are the parallels between goldwater and trump that you speak of? >> well, first the ku klux klan.
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second, the -- he said trump. trump said that he would bomb the bejesus out of isis. well, goldwater never said he would bomb the bejesus out of russia, but the implication was always there. >> you say in the ad if you unite behind a man you don't believe in, it's a lie. >> what a great line. i wish i had written it. >> do you think that's something that the republican delegates should consider now? >> you betcha', my golly. >> everyone is saying i'm still going to vote for, no matter who our nominee is. >> wrong! >> why is that wrong? >> because the country is more important than either party. and you have to, as long as you have the right to vote, i think you have the obligation to use it in a way that you think is going to be best for the country. and i don't see any way, as successful as mr. trump has been, i don't see any way that
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he could be a great force for the country. >> william bogert, bill as you said, thank you for coming on. i appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. i'm very flattered. >> when we come right back, the gop was a house divided in 1964. but are things even worse today? hi i'm kristie and i'm jess and we are the bug chicks. we are a nano-business. windows 10 really helps us get the word out about how awesome bugs are. kids learn to be brave and curious and all kids speak the language of bug. "hey cortana, find my katydid video". oh! this is so good. (laughs) if you're trying to teach a kid about a proboscis just sketch it on the screen. i don't have a touch screen on my mac, i'm jealous of that. (laughs) you put a big bug in a kids hands
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who would have thought that a 50-year-old ad would be so relevant today? joining me now to discuss is it carl bernstein, cnn political commentator, and bill carter, the author of "the war for late night." this is so fascinating, gentlemen. bill, to you first. when this confessions of a republican ad first surfaced, many people thought it was a fake made to look real. but it's not. it is so relevant to today. >> it's so relevant. some of the lines you'd think were written today. the thing about not voting for a guy you can't believe in, the thing about the ku klux klan. it's just remarkable. i'd never seen this ad. i didn't know it existed. i was amazed by it. >> he said "if you unite behind a man you don't believe in, it's a lie." that's profound. >> right.
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it seems every republican has to make that decision. today lindsey graham comes out and supports cruz. and i wanted to say well, if he doesn't make it, will you support trump if you called him a bigot, a misogynist, a racist? >> carl, you heard him say that america had just lived through the assassination of john f. kennedy. american was grappling with the threat of nuclear war. what was america's frame of mind back then? >> we had just gone into the vietnam war and goldwater was saying we should possibly consider use be nuclear weapons in vietnam. and lyndon johnson very effectively used that against goldwater and also goldwater was a very principled man through his whole career, and he was an ideologue, unlike donald trump. he was an ideologue of the right. he had written "conscience of the conservative," the conservative bible. and he was the head of this new movement. >> do you see the similarities now in the political climate between then and now?
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>> no. because i think donald trump is an authoritarian. he is not an ideologue. he is not a principled man in the way that goldwater was. i think the similarities are that there can be a very rancorous convention at which there are forces that would like trump not to be the nominee, just as there were forces that wanted goldwater not to be the nominee and tried to impose after governor rockefeller lost the primaries to goldwater, they tried to make governor scranton of pennsylvania an alternative to goldwater. and they failed. but no, i think that the times are different. i think the people are altogether different. >> but bill, in this ad, though, you heard bogart say that he scared him, right, that goldwater scared him. he also said i can't sort one goldwater statement from another. >> that's another thing. >> one day he says one thing. another day he says something else. does that sound familiar?
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>> it does. it sounds like the same criticisms you hear about trump. i agree with carl. it's a different kind of thing. goldwater was a very functioning, political veteran, he was a senator and had all this background. trump is a wild card, very unpredictable. >> so i can just hear it now. the social media and trump campaign saying is it really fair to compare donald trump to barry goldwater? >> no. i'm sorry. go ahead, bill. >> some people would say that's unfavorable to compare him to goldwater. some people would say that's unfair to goldwater. >> go ahead, carl. >> let me go back to goldwater being a principled man. goldwater led the opposition of his party to richard nixon and eased richard nixon out of office and told nixon that his crimes were too many and that he would lead the republican party against nixon in a senate trial. all together different. donald trump is about donald trump. he's not about any political philosophy.
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he's not about anything but his own objectives. and that is one of the reasons why people are afraid of him, not because, yes, they're afraid of him with his finger on the nuclear trigger obviously, but not because of his ideology. >> bill, before you were saying, goldwater won the nomination easily. i want you to listen to a key moment of his acceptance speech. >> i would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no bias. and let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. >> so, bill, those words alienated moderate republicans and likely cost him the election. trump has said many outrageous things, nothing seems to stick. >> nothing seems to stick. what is interesting is this ad
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basically played on that and said to people this guy is scary. we got to stay away from him. amazing. everyone remembers the daisy ad. this ad was more sophisticated than that. this one basically brought home a child is going to be blown to pieces. it was emotional. much more visceral and emotional. the ad we played today which i was totally unaware of was a sophisticate, very cogent argument very well made. >> it's interesting to watch all of this now. i don't remember the time when it played. but i remember people playing it years ago during elections. >> right. >> i have to say something that carl bernstein interviewed barry goldwater by ham radio back this the day. it was the twitter of his time. you were ahead of your time, carl bernstein. >> that morning, the morning of that speech, goldwater had taken his ham radio equipment as a hobbyist and i interviewed him over ham radio. >> it's hard to believe. you're so young too. i think he was 2 years old when it happened. thank you, gentlemen. i appreciate it. coming up, the end of the world
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is this the end of the gop as we know it or will donald trump surprise everybody and unify the party?
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joining me now is matt schlapp, political director of the republican party. is this the end of the gop as we know it? >> i'm an optimistic guy. i like to believe that we'll come together. but i think look at the very legitimate open question. it's a very raw political moment. will we pull together behind a nominee and beat hillary clinton, who i think is very beatable. the one thing that is very destructive to that end, don, is all these people who are saying i'll never vote for cruz pfeffer he is the nominee, and all these people who are saying i'll never vote for donald trump if he is the nominee. both sides have to realize one of these men is going to be our nominee. >> okay, matt, but it's a little bit hoth odd. one must admit you have this guy who has the momentum, who seems
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to have a clear path to the nomination. yet most people in the party are saying, no, not that guy, he's not the one! why not, you know, coalesce around your guy, you know, some sort of unification, get behind him and say, all right, let's do this? >> first of all, most of the people who are voting or at least these pluralities in these states are voting for donald trump. so i know there are people in the beltway and washington who are having a visceral reaction against donald trump. let's face it. there is if you're winning. i don't know if some of these people took math in common core but he seems to be leading in delegates and that impactful. there's a chance he could get to this minimum number of delegates before cleveland. we have some big states still before us. but if not, look, i would encourage all these candidates,
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ted cruz, donald trump, john kasich, leave it all on the field. go claw at each other. go fight as hard as you can. but when we get done, it needs to be #neverhillary, and not never one of these guys. that's a mistake for the republicans. >> so will there be riots if donald trump doesn't get the nomination? >> you know, don, sometimes at political conventions you need tear gas outside the conventiha. i wonder if we'll need it inside. i think those words are unfortunate. i don't think he meant that. it would be extraordinary -- for the person that is leading in the delegate count to actually not end up getting the requisite number of delegates. we haven't seen that happen for 100 years. ford/reagan is our big controversy back from 1976. ronald reagan came into that convention just behind gerald ford, about 100 delegates short. and he didn't end up getting the
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nomination. that's the typical way things roll. it would be unusual -- >> didn't everyone think in the republican party that that was a mistake then that reagan didn't get the nomination? >> well, all of us conservatives certainly wanted reagan to get it. you got to follow the rules. he didn't get it because there was a bargain with the mississippi delegation, which a lot of people still talk about. here is the thing. it's got to be open. it's got to be transparent. and donald trump has to get to this minimum number. and those are just the facts. >> since romney's defeat in 2008, the gop has been trying to reach out the minorities, to be more inclusive. do you think donald trump has undone that effort or done at least major damage to it? i think autopsy is wrong. still alive there is different voices. and you know, conservatives with barry goldwater were sending a very ideological message to washington about the size and
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scope of government in our lives. what is happening with donald trump and ted cruz is they're sending the message that they want to up end the order of things. and so it's a slightly different message, but it's still incredibly important, and it's very threatening to people who are used to be the insiders and making all these decisions. so your question on the autopsy. does this mean that donald trump can't win a general election? i think people who are saying that are thinking about it all wrong. when you have a certain alignment, certain givens will not take place in 2016 as expected. i think donald trump is going to reach out it different voters than the republican party has ever been able to reach out to if he's going to get the nomination. >> matt schlapp, always a pleasure, thank you. >> thanks, don. >> when we come back, why some people fear donald trump may be one of the top risks to global security. we needed 30 new hires for our call center.
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what barack obama is saying about hillary clinton and bernie sanders. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. the president urging democrats to come together behind one nominee if they want to stop donald trump. but as bernie boyne concedes missouri to hillary clinton, does the senator from vermont still have a path to victory? plus, donald trump's foreign policy adviser is donald trump. th


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