discuss all the issues. the bottom line is, the party doesn't want to see this happen. the campaigns are suggesting they don't want to see it happen. but the rules say it's okay. some say there could be supporters out there who may yet want to push a free set of kasich steak knives or maybe a cruz cruise, or maybe even a trump helicopter tour to win over those last delegate votes. >> that's it for me now. thank you for watching. the news continues right now. here we go. thank you for being with me. i'm brooke baldwin. you of course where watching cnn. drurch is now at war with the republican party officially. his rage against the party machine has developed into an attack against the party leader the chairman of the republican

national committee ryans preeb us. he said he quote should be ashamed of himself because he knows what's going on. trump was talking about the rigged system that he believes led to his loss in colorado not by apopular vote but by a state convention of delegates. he admitted that the republican party does not want him to be the republican nominee. >> i know it's stacked against me. we had a lot of delegates and they were not heard because it was controlled by the rnc. they changed the rules a number of months ago -- >> eight months ago. >> well that's not very long ago. >> but you had a long time to prepare a better organization. >> they saw how i was doing and they didn't like it. >> you are saying you don't think the rnc wants you to get the nomination? >> no, i don't think, i really don't. >> you think they are actively working against you. >> i don't see it. it's not like i have 15 miles of proof. >> so that was trump last night on cnn. here is the response from you in

ryans preeb us via twitter. the process has been known for a year and beyond. it is the responsibility for the candidates to know it. complaints now, give us all a break. once again an unprecedented presidential election breaking the mold. the front-runner republican presidential candidate is in a fight with the rnc fewer than 100 days from the national kron kengs. let's go to a man who served as the chairman for the republican national committee in 2001. he is also a member of this crop of candidates here who would have liked to have become president. he is a former governor of virginia. governor gilmore, nice to see you. >> thank you, brooke. nice to see you. >> have you ever seen anything like this shaping up, this sort of war between a candidate and the party? >> no, i haven't. i think that mr. preeb us is not going to be able to control this. this is being controlled by the primary process. and trumps that done very well in the primary process. i don't think this is the problem that preebs has created

or the rnc created. they created a lot of other problems but not this one. >> i want to come back to that in second. i understand you have said you truly believe that donald trump will ultimately hit that magic number and arrive at that nomination. tell me why you think that. >> i'm guessing but he has done very, very well. he is the leader by a lot. i think's he going do well in his home state of new york. my view is that based on my experience, if you get into the convention with a broad -- most of the delegates, you are going to be able to negotiate your way all the way across the top. but who knows? cruz may be close enough to be able to deadlock the convention, together with rubio and kasich and all those guys. and it could end up very interesting is. >> hang on governor. you say most of the delegates. let's say -- this is whovsly the what if game. if donald trump on that first ballot comes within 100 or 50 delegates, do you think they will give it to him? i've talked to those who say no

way the rules are the rules. >> the rules are the rules. and the rules say donald trump can go out into the delegates and the person who is the most likely candidate can actually begin to make the deals and negotiate his way to the extra delegates to get there. this is just my guess. it could be the rest of the way it comes out different. but that's my hunch. >> knowing the process as well as you do, is there truth to what donald trump has said, the fact that he is arguing the system is rigged? >> no, i don't think so the system is rigged. i think -- look, i have a great deal of issues with the rnc about the primary process, about their interaction with the network television people, about the outsourcing of the debates. i'm on the record that i have got real problems with. that i don't think they have rigged the rules. the rules are the rules. now it's going to get real interesting when we get to the convention and they try to change those rules around. i don't think either cruz or trump want that. if they do that, then that's going to create some sense of

anger in the convention. it's going to be an interesting convention for you guys cover. >> i agree. i'm sitting next to a couple of people who would nod their heads as well. straight up, do you think bridges have been burned here? >> yeah. i think that the process has made it very, very hard because of the way that this has gone. i think that the bridge to the presidency has been burned down. but on the other hand, hillary clinton is so bad, and you know, if you talk about a bridge being burned down across the river, there's something down in the river, and that's an alligator, it's called hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton is the alligator in this metaphor. >> yeah she's the alligator. we have got to figure out how to get across this river even though the bridge has been burned. she is the one who really shouldn't be the president of the united states. her foreign policy is terrible, her sbe grit is terrible because of the e-mail, because of the clinton foundation. she should not be president of the united states.

i'm doing everything i can do to make sure virginia gets in the column in november. >> i understand. those are talking sides. a lot of democrats would disagree with you. >> i feel that way. i don't have any talking points. i just feel that way. >> i believe you governor. i believe you. final question, wild question. i know paul ryan was saying yesterday ultimately no matter how many ballots this comes down to in cleveland, you know, please, vote for someone who is actually running for president. tuesday the possibility of anyone running governor gilmore on any of those ballots. >> i ran because i thought i had better policies than the other candidates. at the end of the away the situation developed in such a way that i could not be the nominee. i don't expect to be the nominee. but i do hope to have a chance to go to cleveland so i can play a constructive role. >> we hope to see you there. governor gilmore thank you so much. let's talk about the

conversation i just had with the governor. joining me now, david cat knees. jackie cue sin itch is with us as well. also dana barb. great to see all of you. anything from that jump out at you? >> this is why you are who you are because you just did a great job deciphering the hillary clinton alligator bridge metaphor. this is why they pay you the big bucks, brooke baldwin. look, this is a very, very challenging situation. for the chair of the rnc to be doing public battle, to have to tweet back at the front-runner -- i mean it's kind of crazy if you take a step back and there is a twitter war going on with rnc chair and the front-runner of the republican party? the one thing they are not saying publicly in senior republican circles is that perhaps this actually could cam

back to bite trump a bit more than he expects with the very people that he needs to vote for him in these various states, his delegates. >> how do you mean? >> because if you say, the establishment is against me, that obviously plays very well to the base he already has. >> yeah. >> but the people who are the grassroots who are wanting to come to the convention, running to be delegates, they are in many ways the establishment within their precinct. >> it's alienating. >> yes. exactly. >> this is the problem. there are two parallel campaigns going on. in the primaries, the popular vote is becoming less and less important. trump hasn't articulated this in the best way, but i think that's his case. the rules aren't rigged but they are looking byzantine, archean, complicated when a state like colorado never hold an open primary, but you can just go into the state and grab

delegates. it's not rigged but it looks insidery and not very democratic. here's the thing that's disingenuous of the rnc. the rules can change on the eve of the convention. the state by state rules are set. but they can change the rules of who can be put in the nomination on the eve of the convention. when more and more people fine that out, that's going to be trouble for the party. >> they are ted cruz and donald trump delegates on the rules committee. that's why they are allowed to change the rules because the argument is these delegates shouldn't have to be governed under the mitt romney rules. it's going to be stacked with their people. could there be more cruz or kasich people than trump people? sure. but that's their job to make sure their people get on the rules committee. there is so much the unpack here but the bottom line is we wouldn't be having this conversation if trump was able to get to 1237. it's the next step that's going to be hard for him. if he's able to lock this down, he wouldn't have to worry about

these cruz delegates. >> no. it's exactly right. and i think that you know, it is complicated. look, people follow sports and they understand rbis and they are going to understand this. >> right. >> so the -- what is going on as we speak are the delegates are being selected at a state level, right? what jackie, you were talking about, the rules committee -- well there is a rules committee of the rnc. >> which the is the all powerful, can change the rules in any given election. >> and then there are the people who are nominated for what you just said, to write the rules that will govern the upcoming convention. the argument that people at the rnc make, and they have a valid point, is imagine if we didn't rewrite the rules every time. imagine if we said no, sorry, donald trump, ted cruz, whoever, you are going to have to live by the rules mitt romney decided he wanted. >> but it's odd to make the rules of a convention after you have gone through 50 primaries and say rules like you need to

win eight states. what if your strategy is i'm going to win ten states and they change it on the eve of convention and they make it 12. >> that was ron paul's argument last time. >> this is what they are saying, this is how it as always been. this year it matters. it never mattered before. this year it matters that they are going to change the rules on the eve of the convention. >> i have asked a number of people, gotten different answers the whole bit about hitting 1237, and the fact we are getting in the weeds and talking about the rules and rewriting the rules. is it possible -- the governor's point, if trump on the first ballot maybe doesn't get to 1237 but gets so darn close and he does deals and negotiating to finally get the final 50 or 20 -- is that -- do you think that's the way it will go because the people will want to avoid the mess that could ensue or no? >> i think they are going the try to stop trump. if he is one delegate short there will be an antitrump

movement because people are that passionate. >> they have not taken the easy way in any of these steps. there is no way they are going to make it easier once they are in cleveland. >> it will be fascinating for all of us to be there. make sure you watch tonight's town hall with ted cruz and his wife heidi. and an cooper will be hosting. that is tonight at 9:00 here on cnn. ben carson's closest aide getting balboaed by black leaders today. this is a big deal -- for his comments about playing the race card in this current election. we'll play you what he said and how it was received in that room. also reports of harassment and a hit list involving delegates on both sides of the political aisle. hear what is happening behind the scenes there. and a secret meeting at trump tower. find out who went inside to meet with trump. one of, apparently, his biggest enemies. you are watching cnn.

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welcome back. you are watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. the clinton campaign has a track record of strong support among african-americans. hillary clinton also has the endorse mental of the cbc, the congressional black caucus. butted a today's national action network convention to fiery criticism moments before the former secretary of state took to the podium, armstrong williams, he was ben carson's business manager, issued this charge to black voters. >> we sit here you hear the race speeches because they feel that's what you want to hear today. everything in america is not always about race. make these people earn your vote. if it's donald trump, so be it. if it's bernie sanders, so be it. do not allow the kling clips and the establishment to waltz in here and wave their hand and everything is okay. let them earn your vote.

okay? i don't mind the hiss because you know the truth when you hear it. make them earn your vote. you can talk about race. they play the race card, too, as they did in south carolina against barack obama. don't get caught up in the short memory. this is a business. they will say whatever they need to say and do whatever they need to do to get elected. >> let's begin there. jeff zell eny, dana barb, and donna brazil. donna brazil. i heard you chuckle. let me begin with you. apparently there were multiple rounds of balboaing and hissing of armstrong williams as he did what he did. you laugh, why? every four years my black friends and i believe that the reason black voters turn out to vote for a democrat is somehow or another we've been duped. no. there is a history. there is a history with black

voters. the clintons have a history with black voters now. there is always a history. there was a history when jesse jackson ran in 1994. and he went out and registered millions of black voters. and there is a history when barack obama goes out and competes for black votes. black voters are like any other voter in this society. we wanted to courted, respected, and we want you to earn our vote. so this hearsay that somehow or another democrats walk into the black community two weeks before the election and say hey come out and vote, that's crazy. it's ludicrous. as we speak, not just-second secretary clinton, but also senator sanders they are out there competing for these votes because they know they will make a difference. let me say this. as black women, i'm so proud of the fact that we register in larger numbers than any other demographic group, and we vote because our votes are important. i'm glad to see that african-american voters are out there competing, winning

elections and running for office. sorry armstrong, you have a lot of homework to do. >> we know that secretary clinton came out on the stage a couple of minutes after that happened. did she address any of that or roll on? >> she did address it. she said, look, i mean democrats and politicians of all sprips can't just come here and expect to win the black vote. we have to earn it. we have to have policies that earn this vote. she has been talking about race more in this campaign recently than i remember her doing. and some of it has come to her doorstep with the black lives matter movement and other things. >> flint, michigan. >> right. and she said that, no, we need to earn the votes. ly has some policy prescriptions as well. this is one of the things that really propping up and elevating her candidacy this time around. the diverse coalition of voters is keeping her in front here. that's why she was there today. it's why she makes a lot of these appearances. it's different time, though, than when her husband was on the ballot, as we've seen over the

last week or so. the conversation is different. but donna is right, the history is there. that's why she will win overwhelmingly the majority of the black vote. >> i agree. and the irony of what armstrong williams said is that the competition that hillary clinton is now getting for the democratic nomination is forcing not just her, but bernie sanders to try harder to earn the african-american vote, to earn every vote in the democratic primary process. but particularly the african-americans because of what you said, because she is really relying on that group to propel her. i mean, there is a reason why she does well in the states that have the big black urban populations. it's because they ten to gravitate towards her this election cycle. not in 2008. and she has to work on that. >> on that, let me switch to the delegates and the super delegates and the reports of some of these super delegate hit lists on line, and that some

sanders supporters are threatening hillary clinton supporters. i'm looking at you, super delegate, and i'm wondering, have you gotten any phone calls? have you been threatened? i mean you haven't decided or said -- >> first of all, do i look like somebody you really want to threaten? >> no. >> no. >> you know what, i can give love and i can accept it. what i will not accept is have it reole and hate. super delegates are part of the process. if you take us out, it's like taking the rue out of a gum ball. party leaders decided they wanted to have party leaders and elected officials to have role in the process. we are part of the process. you cannot remove us from the process. especially now, because you know we are in the middle of the game. >> right. >> but there are things we might be able to do in the future to ensure that super delegates are not seen as some alien species

trying to take away the will of the people. we are not. we have never overturned the election. i respect senator sanders. i respect secretary clinton. i'm neutral. i'm going to remain neutral. we're not rigging the process. we're part of the process. >> part of the conversation is on both sides about some of these delegates. >> it's true, it's happening. >> being treated well. >> and we are about to see a conversation of this even more on the democratic side. we are seeing it on the republican side considerably. the process is opening up. the delegate process is confusing to some who are new to the process. the reality is this is going to be the first fight we've seen this in the social media page where people's names and addresses will be out there on social media. eight years ago there was a huge fight in the clinton and obama campaigns over super delegates. this year it may get ugly. that's why the clinton campaign wants to keep ahead in pledged delegates. if they don't, they are in trouble. >> we'll keep the conversation going on that. >> treat us nice. you get more from honey.

>> donna brazil is helping to moderate the debate tomorrow night in brooklyn. step away from donna. cnn hosts the democratic debate. don't miss it. hillary clinton facing off against bernie sanders tomorrow night only here on cnn. up next, cnn is learning new details of a secret meeting today at trump tower involving someone who repeatedly clashes with the republican front-runner and who reportedly entered the building dressed in disguise. brian stelter is all over that. also, more on the shooting death of former new orleans saints star will smith. new details just rye leased by the coroner. we have an update on that as well. stay here.

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just in to us here at cnn, sources tell us that the trump campaign is going to congress. why? they are beginning a set of outreach meetings tomorrow in d.c. we're told lawmakers who support trump and are on the fence will meet with staff. by the way, trump will not be there. but we can tell you that the front-runner did just meet secretly with a journalist he has called, quote, unquote, crazy, unfair, overrated. i'm talking about fox news host megyn kelly a. source tells cnn the republican front-runner and kelly met at trump tower in manhattan. trump's intense dislike of kelly has been on display all throughout this campaign. let's talk it over with brian stelter, host of reliable sources. so what is the scoop. >> she rolled up into trump towers incognito? >> yeah, there is a mystery

about this. neither has commented on this. but my sources say the meeting was the culmination of kelly reaching out the trump, seeking a feist face to face. it happened this morning. it is significant because if you think of trump's target megyn kelly has been on the top of his list. he has criticized her viciously, can't stand to watch her show. it would suggest to me at the same time he is talking about trying to unify the party, maybe he is even trying to make amends with one of his critics. >> ultimately, reading through the tea leaves, this could be about a highly promoted, highly promoted sit-down interview. >> yes. interviews of trump aren't hard to come by, he is on television all the time. he has never sat down with megyn kelly. ever since the debate in august.

kelly challenged him with misogynistic comments he made, about women. there has been questions about that ever since partly because of her question. there is a lot of tension between the two of them. you can imagine a sit down between them with kelly talking to trump would be highly rated. she has a primetime special booked in late may on the fox broadcasting network. i'm sure she would love to have trump as a guest. >> brian stelter, we'll see. watch brian at 11:00 eastern on sunday mornings here on cnn. coming up, my next guest calls it trumpism, it's kind of like a religion with donald trump him as the principal evangelist preaching a prosperity gospel to his faithful followers. wouldle' cuss what that means next. you can apto wet skin. a wrinkle cream that works in one week. and a shampoo that washes away the residue hair care products

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than any leading joint supplement. the constitution may separate church and state. but faith and politics have long gone hand in hand. at election time voters look for inspiration, a reason to believe, a need to put faith perhaps in some sort of saifr savior. donald trump supporters may have found all three. now this journalism professor who has attended a number of trump rallies coining it trumpism. he writes in a "new york times" piece -- the man inside, he owns that. moaned a girl behind me, into

something greater. to that quote i chose, you talk a lot in the beginning your piece about the feeling, so much has been talked about, the anger at trump rallies. but you stood there and you felt something. explain that and why that is so rare in politics these days. >> well, i think whenever we see anger we see heightened emotion. that's our clue that we might be in the realm that religion works, which is also a realm of joy. and that's what -- when i started attending these rallies what i noticed is that when people would describe violence -- and there is much more imagination of violence than actual violence though there is that, too, they would do so with pleasure and the sense of release and the sense they were cutting through all the static and a tul noise that they were getting to the real thing. and i think that's very potent, very powerful, and worth understanding. because as other politicians who

have harnessed anger, but to harness anger and joy at the same time that's i think part what have explains trump's unique appeal. >> then you ultimately connect the dots and talk about the prosperity gospelful when i think of that you think of dollar and his mega plane. oral roberts and the huge statue of the hands the at the university. and the notion that these preachers can be blessed and you can, too, you just have to invest as a follower. what are the parallels there with donald trump? >> well, for donald trump, it comes from the book that he has often talked about as the most important book in his life. recently he started holding up the bible. before that, it was the book called the power of positive thinking by norman vincent peel, this mid-century preacher that his father sbrounsed him to and was influential in this idea of how do you make yourself successful, you believe in yourself as successful, that god wants you to be successful and that got puts these successful

business men among us as models for how to be. trump believes this and has written about this and talked about this his whole career. that's where he comes in. and he is connecteding it to the idea that when we see the preacher with the mega plane -- dollar has a $65 million private jet, that's not a sign that somehow this guy is too worldly. that's proof that god has chosen him. if you can put your faith in him, god will choose you as with he will. >> but you stood there, jeff, and talked not not only the supporters and quoting them around you. you even went to one of the bars and sat around with some of the folks -- these are folks who don't at all come from the same ilk as trump. what is it about him that has them so enraptured. >> well, it's certainty, you know, that part that you read about there is not the manufactured hope of a political rally. if you think about the history of american politics, hope is always the driving engine. the hope might be for progressive change. the hope might be for a return

to another time. donald trump doesn't speak in terms of hope. in fact, in his book, crippled america, he says this is not a politics of hope. hope in trumpland is for losers. trump speaks in terms of certainty. he says at his rallies, this isn't 95% going to happen. it's 100% going to happen. when i went into that bar in youngstown and sat with a group of people, all of them democrats, all of them voting for trump, most of them union, and they wanted to believe that trump would bring back a steel mill. they want wouldn't to hope he would bring a steel mill back to youngstown. they wanted it to be a certainty. as the gospel tells you if you just put your faith in, it's not a spirituality, it's almost like a science. it is a fact. >> thank you so much for your time. coming up next, why is america's reaction to the crack epidemic completely different than the current reaction to the

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hillary clinton is making a direct appeal to a key fraction of the democratic party as her race against bernie sanders is heating up. today she spoke at the national action network's annual convention in new york. >> what i have tried to do, what i intend to keep doing with your help is to refuse to accept as normal the fact that black men today are far more likely to be stopped and searched by police, charged with crimes, and sentenced to longer prison terms than white men convicted of the same offenses. and we have seen the toll that takes on families torn apart by

excessive incarceration. >> secretary clinton's speech to the mostly african-american group today is taking on new urgency as critics really slammed her for supporting the 1994 crime bill that her husband signed as president. arguing the bill worsened mass incarceration are listenering effects to this day. it included $9 billion for prison conduction, $8 billion for an additional 100,000 police officers. opponents say it didn't do enough to address crime prevention programs. during the former president clinton's tenure in the white house prison populations nearly tripled the population as under president reagan. bakari sellers and mark modeler is here. it so, welcome to both of you. most importantly, mark, as well,

you testified in the '90s when this crime bill was up for consideration. do you think that the kplins have done enough since then -- clintons have done enough since then? >> i think hillary clinton on the campaign trial has called several times for the end of the era of mass incarceration. i think it's encouraging. i think she acknowledged that both she and her husband as she put it went too far in the crime bill. i think it's unfortunate that it happened but we are in a different moment right now. we need to move on. bill clinton of course has made some contradictory statements. last year he half apologized saying that the crime bill went too far. but last week in his confrontation with the black lives matter group he was more or less giving a vigorous defense of the crime bill, which i think was not really grounded in research or evidence, but nonetheless, that's his current position apparently. >> you know, a bigger picture -- i was reading this opinion piece

from someone from the cordel law school. you look at what happened in the '90s with the crack epidemic. and you just pose that to what is happening in the heroin epidemic. you have president obama proposing $1 million in funding to address. you have the current crop of candidates talking so much about the heroin epidemic and treating those who are addicted very differently. do you see that as a difference? >> that's a stark contrast. historical context is key when you are talking about the 1994 crime bill and the unintended consequences that came from it. the fact of the matter is that, yes, it did exacerbate mass incarceration. but it's a bundle of complexities. but to get to the heart of what you are saying it's amazing that now we're treating this epidemic, this epidemic that many white americans deal with with such kid gloves. and the answer or the response that we hear is to treat them. where in the mid '80s crack was ravaging african-american communities and it was creating,

quote, unquote, social quo paths that needed to be arrested. you see the difference in the dialogue. this is a lot of anks, the have it reole and anger that you have within my community that you have in the african-american community. you don't have to 40 years old or 50 years old to see the difference in the way people are treated. we have to begin to look at the way we treat those dealing with these issues. whether or not it's crack or heroin. we have to look how we sentence them, the way these people are entertained in the criminal justice system and we have to untangle the mass of complexity that we have. >> do you think that race is at the heart of this? >> it's hard not to come to that conclusion. yes, maybe we've learned from the experience of the drug war of the last several decades the failure of mass incarceration. that's encouraging but we've really seen this for a hundred years. drug wars playing out this way. in the 1930s, marijuana was perceived to be used by mexican

americans and african-americans in so-called seedy parts of town. it was a demon drug. by the time the 1960s came around millions of white class americans started consuming marijuana. attitudes changed almost overnight. it was the perception of the user rather than the drug itself that made a difference. that's no way to be addressing possible policy. >> final question, do you think this will hurt -- bernie sanders supported it at the time. obviously hillary clinton supported what her husband was doing. they both said it went too far now. but how much will this hurt her moving forward? >> i think both of the candidates of the. you stated it best, framed it the best way. hillary clinton and her husband supported it. bernie sanders voted for it and rearticulated his position for it again as laid as 2006. but we're here now. we have 2.2 million americans in the prison system. which candidate is going to take on and build upon the clemency project? because this president has

granted clemency to more inmates and prisoners than the six presidents combined. who is going to talk about ending the school to prison pipeline. who is going to talk about investing in schools of higher education and not investing in prisons. i'm tired of rehashing the cultural war of the 1990s because there are too many people, young mails who look like me who are in prisons for crimes they shouldn't be in prison for. that's a travesty. >> i'm glad we are having the conversation. we'll keep it up. bakari and mark appreciate your voices in all of that. coming up next, is donald trump burning bridges with the republican party that simply can't be repaired? he is officially at war with the gop. we'll talk with someone who is advising him. plus du new details on the shooting death of former nfl star will smith. what the coroner revealed and what it could mean for the case against his alleged shooter.

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just in to krchb, key details right now could shed some light as far as what happened the night former nfl star will smith was shot and killed. according to the coroner's report, we know that smith was shot eight times. seven of the wounds to his back. one on his left side. new orleans police now tell us they found two guns in addition to the one the suspect is accused of using to kill smith. one of them a fully loaded 9 millimeter handgun inside smith's suv. the other, a fully loaded revolver found in the hummer driven by the shooter accused of fatally shooting snit and shooting smith's wife. smith's father is finally speaking out saying he is confident his son did not get

out with a gun. >> why would he get out with a gun. he got out of his car. may have gotten out with a big mouth but not with his gun. i'm going to miss his knile smile. his demeanor. his thoughtfulness for other people. i raised a young man, a productive citizen, a person that care about other people. that was my job as a parent. >> martin savidge is with me now in new orleans. you attended the news conference where the smith family attorney just spoke. what did he say? >> reporter: well, he talked about a lot of things. first of all, he updated us on the condition of raquel. raquel of course is will smith's wife of she was wounded in the attack. we hadn't heard anything more about her condition since i believe the last time was on sunday. he updated us on her and then updated us on the depiction of this case. quickly before the attorney for

cardel hayes jumped out and said you have got it all wrong, this was mr. hayes defending himself after some hit and run. the attorney for the smith family says that's not an accurate portrayal. he says what hayes did is nothing short of murder. and he described the wounds to both smith, meaning will smith, and raquel. here's what the attorney said. >> suddenly, two shots are fired. she is shot immediately in both legs and she collapses. at this point, following the shooting of her, either right immediately, or moments therefore, the killer unloads six to eight shots into will's back. so in all, the killer shot will

smith in the back eight times. >> reporter: the attorney described that hayes rammed his suv -- that was the big hummer -- into the back of the smith vehicle so strongly it shattered the back window. and then there was the altercation. he said that the wife actually got out of the vehicle. that's raquel. goes to her husband and thinks she is defusing the situation, come on, let's get away from this. they thought they had it all resolved and then torg to the attorney the gunman appeared behind them and opened fire shooting her first and then shooting her husband eight times, seven times in the back. brooke? >> awful. martin savidge, thank you so much. > . top of the hour. you are watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for being with me. once again an already unprecedented presidential election breaks the mold.

the front-runner of the republican party is at war with the party fewer than 100 days from the national convention. donald trump directly attacking the republican national committee chairman reince priebus reportedly saying priebus should, quote, unquote, be ashamed of him for a nominating system that trump calls rigged. he is reacting to his loss in colorado by a state convention of delegates rather than a popular vote. and trump had more to say in a town hall featuring the candidate and his family. >> i know it's stacked against me my the establishment. we had a lot of delegates and they were not heard because the republican party out there was probably 100% controlled by the rnc. they changed the rules a number of months ago. >> about eight months ago. >> well that's not very long ago. >> but you had a lot of time to prepare a better organization. >> they saw how i was doing and they didn't like it. >> reince priebus has taken to twitter, reing aings, quote, nomination process known for a

year and beyond. it is the responsibility of the campaigns to understand it. complaints now? give us all a break. with me now the secretary of state of kansas chris coback. he is endorsing donald trump. nice to see you chris. welcome back. >> great to see you, too. >> do you really want your candidate at war with the republican party and with the rnc? >> no. of course not. at the end of the day, whoever can nominee is for the party has to have the full backing of the party or it's going to be a very difficult way for the republicans to win. i would say this, i think mr. trump's comments reflect the general sense and the realization among a lot of people in the public that, hey, the votes of the people don't necessarily translate into an equivalent number of candidates. you know, if you do some quick math you can see that trump has won 8.2 million votes so far and cruz has won 6.2 million votes so far. almost 2 million votes difference. most people call that a blowout if you had a state election with

that big a difference. it's possible if trump doesn't get to 1237 that cruz may get the nomination. a lot of people say that's not the fair. polls want the person who gets the highest number of delegates to be the person who gets the nomination. >> understood that this may not feel fair and you are probably not alone feeling that way. everyone got into the race knowing the rules. the rules are the rules. you acknowledge that you absolutely need the rnc to win this thing. that said, given everything trump has said, how do you fix this? >> you know, that's a really great question. and i think the biggest -- saying this as a republican -- i used to be the state chairman of kansas years ago, so former member of the rnc myself. the most important thing is to capitalize on all the tuesday yachl. one fact that a lot of people haven't noted is that republican participation is in these primaries is dwamping democratic participation. 5.5 million more republicans have voted in the country than the democrats. that's a huge advantage.

that advantage will disappear if after the convention republican voters feel slighted or cheated. they won't feel like their votes matter. that may be the democrats' ace in the hole. republicans have to find a way to make republicans across the country agree that the process is fair. that's an important conundrum for the party. >> it is. and maybe that's something we address post cleveland or post november. when you are staring down at cleveland, do you think if trump doesn't hit that 1237 after that first ballot -- first of all, if you think he's close. let's say within off. what do you think happens? >> know, if he is close as you describe, within 50, then the argument becomes pretty compelling for the trump side to say, look, this is -- you know we are talking about a race that has a really big difference between the votes of the number one and the number two person. it wouldn't be fair. >> are you saying they would just give it to him? >> no.

no. but i think the argument would be maitd made on the convention floor that it would be awfully hard to say you know what, the second place person, even though he didn't come nearly close to crossing the line like trump did, we're going to go ahead and give it to somebody else anyway. but as that 50 vote hypothetically you describe grows -- what it's 200 votes? then the cruz team's argument becomes stronger. but if it's close, i think you are going to see a lot said on the convention floor, hey, how can we possibly deny the nomination to someone who came virtually within getting that 1237 number. >> do you think if it isn't that close and it does go to that second ballot, do you think you know trump is doomed at that point? >> no, i don't think he is doomed. and you know, having been to a couple of these conventions as a delegate. this is uncharted territory for these people. most of these delegates weren't around in 1976. so what happens on that second vote is anybody's guess.

i think there is another misconception out there that there is someone behind the curtain manipulating that second vote. it's not. it's over 2,000 people who are going to be making up their own decision probably as states trying to talk it through together. and it's going to be really exciting to watch. but i don't think anyone can predict what's going to happen on that second vote. unpredictable, this whole thing has been. chris coback, kansas city secretary of state supporting donald trump. looking at my panel out of the corner of my eyes nodding along. i have gloria borger, david chall on, and amanda carpenter. a lot of nodding along on the lack of enthusiasm because of all the republicans who are showing up, and maybe they will feel frustrated. bottom line, what did you make of what he said? >> i thought it made a lot of sense. >> yeah. >> particularly when he talks about the margins. because if it's 50 votes, that's

really different from 200 votes. >> right. >> and another thing that chris said that i thought was interesting is that delegations may work together to figure out where they go. and you know, we all talk about delegate this, delegate that. what if delegations who -- don't forget, these delegates are party people. they care about winning, care about the future of the republican party. they don't want to see chaos, they know it's not going to help them in november. this notion that delegations may actually work together. >> the deals to get to the 1237 or -- >> the mississippi delegation or the louisiana delegation. you know, they are going to have delegation meetings and kind of try and hash this through because they are party people. that's an interesting idea. >> i mean, one of the things that i think we forget when we're looking at ted cruz's organizational strength that we've been talking about a lot in the last couple of days, lining up all the delegates to be there in the eventuality of a

second ballot or beyond. those are not locked in. yes, they may be right now delegates loyal to ted cruz. and they say that, and the cruz folks can mark them down. but they are actually more like what we talk about on the democratic side, super delegates. they are completely movable until they cast their vote once they are unbown. if the dynamic of the race -- this is where the margins argument comes in. if the dynamic of the race is that donald trump goes into cleveland with a ton of momentum, has won a ton of contests going in. gets there and falls just short you can see that some of those delegates that ted cruz lined up in colorado or other states all of a sudden are susceptible to an argument from the trump folks who did get so close. even though the cruz folks are organizing well it's not a guarantee. >> i will say whoever the nominee is what happens at the convention is important because it is finally an opportunity for the party, people like paul ryan, reince priebus, and others

to make a statement finally of what the party stands for. what direction we are going. we have seen something nothing but chaos throughout the process. unless they get a hold this and have a united front coming out of the convention it will be a disaster for the general election. >> with that said, to your point, these are party people. if we are talking currently about donald trump saying the whole system is rigged isn't there going to be a little love lost? >> well, i think that's the long term problem we have. look, in the short term, claiming the sim is corrupt and rigged against him is a very, very smart way to rally your base around you. >> but the party people matter and the rnc matter and the rules committee matters. >> it's not a great way to say, i think you are corrupt, vote for me. but -- but, people understand -- i think people understand what he is doing. i think it can certainly alienate people. and then if you win, of course, the question is, is the system still illegitimate if donald trump wins?

>> brooke, with things can be true at the same time. right? it can be true that the rules the rules and there is a playbook and everybody should be playing by the plague playbook. and it can be true that this system is crazy. that -- just to anybody sitting at home saying this is how we get our party's nominees? it's not as simple as one person, one vote. and donald trump is seizing on the simplicity of that kind of argument. and his popular vote total. even though, listen, it is true, those are not the rules, this is how the game is played, that doesn't mean that there is not an argument that has resonance. >> what is the message that the party is going to want to latch on to and campaign for in a general election. donald trump through out this campaign against the system, antiestablishment. always scapegoating somebody, fighting somebody. what is he actually campaigning on? look at this week. he is not talking about jobs or immigration. he is barbing the rnc. while people could latch on to a

tear the system down message, it is effective to a point. is that something republicans down the ticket are going to want to campaign on? >> to that point i was just talking last hour to former virginia governor jim gilmore, wanted to be president, was part of the current crop of republican candidates and also sat in the seat reince priebus currently is sitting. and i asked him if he had seen anything like this before. he said no. and i'm going to give you an analogy involving bridges and crocodiles. >> bridge to the presidency has been burned down. on the other hand hillary clinton is so bad. and you know, if you talk about a bridge being burn down across the river, there is something down in the river. and that's an alligator and it's called hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton is the alligator in this metaphor? >> yeah, she's the al gator. we have got to figure out how to get across this river even though the bridge has been burned? stop that metaphor. >> aren't the alligators the ones that usually end up biting?

>> i don't really get that metaphor. i do, however -- i think what he is trying to say is that maybe the party will unite if hillary clinton is the nominee. >> i think the bridge to the presidency because this war with the rnc and donald trump and everything else is burned down. he is worried about it. and then he added the layer of the crocodile living below. >> she will bring the republicans together like nobody else can. i just want to talk about your point about the system being crazy, though. >> yes. >> we say this every four years. iowa caucuses are crazy. why do we do -- and the system is crazy. and at some point these -- the caucuses sort of become outmoded to a great degree given the way our world operates these days. and maybe some of these smaller caucuses and some of these things like what we had in colorado -- what would you even call that? >> convention. >> convention: >> yes. >> maybe those things need to

evolve and change. and that is something that even the party is at war with donald trump i think they would be foolish not to take a look at this and say -- >> once the whole thing is said and done. >> they do adapt and change it every cycle. like they change the rules in colorado. >> and make it work? >> it was engineered in a way, front loaded front-runner to privilege a well funded candidate like jeb bush. that back fooird. nobody can predict what is going to happen. when they complain about it they change it again. it is a constantly evolving thing and there are complaints. you have to work within it however crazy it may be. >> reminds me of florida in 2000. what got exposed in florida of 2000 what is this is how we vote? all these different systems. then they passed the america vote act. i'm not sure we gotten there as a country yet. this is the same thing. what is being exposed, this is

how each party chooses its nominees? maybe we need to look at that. >> excellent point. thank you very much. we have so much more to talk about. see you all tomorrow in brooklyn. meantime, don't forget, ted cruz and his wife heidi will sit down for their own cnn town hall tonight. anderson cooper mod rates that from new york this evening 9:00 eastern only here on cnn. ben carson's closest aide getting booed by black leaders today about his comments about the african-american vote. you will a see what exactly happened. we'll play it for you. you be the judge. and hear how donald trump's daughter ivanka defends her dad over his controversial remarks about women in a very personal answer. and bernie sanders's wife, jane sanders joins me live on set for the very first time. what does she think about trump defending her husband when it comes to the system that we were just discussing? stand by for that. you are watching cnn. orking for peanuts.

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make these candidates work for it. they need to earn your vote. that's part of the sentiment from the man who played a key role in the campaign of former presidential candidate ben carson. this is what armstrong williams told voters today antiing the action national convention in new york. >> make these people earn your vote. if it's donald trump, so be it. if it's bernie sanders, so be it. do not allow the clintons and the establishment to waltz in here and wave their hand and everything is okay. let them earn your vote. okay? i don't mind the hisses because you know the truth when you hear it. make them earn your vote. if they talk about race. they play the race card too as they did in south carolina against barack obama. >> cnn's joe johns with me now.

just reading the transcript, sounds like he was booed and hissed multiple times in the room. talk about his comments and the fact that hillary clinton stepped on the stage moments later. >> first thing you need to know about armstrong williams, he is the former business manager for ben carson. he is a conservative, he is a republican. a lot of the things he says are not going to be taken easily by the national action network, a progressive group. nonetheless some of the things he is citing here are things that have been said by progressive african-american leaders. because there is skepticism on both sides of the minority politics spectrum in this country about the democrats. questions about whether bernie sanders can deliver on his promises. i think the immigrant voting community is concerned about whether he is genuine african-american voters on the other hand are concerned whether he can deliver at all. and on hillary clinton there are big questions with things like the 1994 crime bill which her

husband signed when he was in office. there are questions about the welfare reform bill which her husband signed when he was in office. all of these things come together as a stew. and a lot of leaders on all sides of the minority voter spectrum are questioning, you know, which candidate is the best for them. >> right. we were talking about the '94 crime bill and both senator sanders supported it at the time. and of course she has. now they are saying it was too much. it's a piece of conversation today in this election. >> that's right. >> okay. i'm being told we need to hear from hillary clinton. let's listen. >> white americans need to do a much better job of listening when african-americans talk about the seen and unseen barriers you face every day. we need to recognize our privilege and practice humility

rather than assume our experiences are everyone else's experiences. we need to try as best we can to walk in your shoes. >> what's interesting about hillary clinton and her comments there, she kind of stuck to the script of things she has said before to african-american audiences. wasn't much different. very tested sort of message. each give the fact that the "new york times" just today had called on her to explain more fully the dynamics surrounding, say, the 1994 crime bill. she didn't take this opportunity to go much further because the stakes are quite high here in new york and the one thing you don't want to do is make news in a bad way when you are leading by double digits. >> right. joe johns thank you very much. a reminder, hillary clinton and bernie sanders will go head to head in blip tomorrow night. do not miss the cnn democratic debate in brooklyn 9:00 eastern

only here on cnn. coming up next, trump's daughter stealing the spotlight, talking about her dad and talking about her failure to register to vote in time for the new york primary. we'll take a closer look at ivanka trump professionally and personally. and bernie sanders called uninformed and views -- after he attended the verizon striking lines. that said, guess who i get to talk to. jane sanders, bernie's wife. that's coming up. (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro.

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just about the bottom of the hour. you are watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. i wanted to talk with ivanka trump today. she is the second oldest child of republican front-runner donald trump. she is not running for office, but if shooerp she could probably scoop up plenty of votes. articulate, unflappable, very bright. poised, great. she tackeed every question tossed at her from the audience and from and an cooper, including a question about how her father treats women. >> i think the way he raised me, the way he raised tiffany, it's a testament to the fact that he believes in inspiring women empowering women. he always taught me there wasn't anything that i couldn't do if i set my mind to it. if i had deep passion, if i unearthed what it is that i wanted to do with my life and then worked very hard to achieve it. and i don't think that's the message a father would relay to a daughter who he didn't believe had the potential to accomplish

exactly what her brothers could. you know, for me, it's his actions speak louder than the words of politicians who talk about gender quality. but it's not evidenced in their daily employment practices. let's talk to tim teamen, senior editor at the daily beast z. an extensive sit down with ivanka just this past february. just reading this whole piece, you must have gotten quite a bit of time with her, just how author you were in your interaction with her, your description of ivanka trump. even in that clip, i couldn't take my eyes off of her tobs honest. do you have that? >> yes, i do. i interviewed her at the end of last year for town and country magazine. she knew it was going to be a cover shoot. she was looking -- she looks at&t fantastic. she looks fantastic off camera. looks great on camera. but she also knows the role she

is currently in. she those who her father is like. she is 100% loyal to her father. and that loyalty is true. it is a not made up. it's not coneffected for the cameras. that's flutely true. she also knows he is an extreme fern and knows how to protect her own brand and what she needs to do in her own life. she balances both those things, and i think she balances them with great skill. i okay spoke to her about an hour. >> as a girl she would tour construction sites with her parents. her father gave her construction renderings, a noted on one read ivanka, i can't wait until you work with me one day. you had this conversation and she said i'm on equal footing with my brothers. if my father didn't think so i would have a subordinate vote. and she doesn't. >> she doesn't have a subordinate vote. her personal experience with her

family is that it has been an equal playing field. i think ivanka is a great weapon, secret or not, for her father to show that he is good with women. he has been extremely good with her. he has immense respect for her. she has immense respect for him. i finds it interesting that we are talking about this on the day when megyn kelly supposedly went to trump tower. >> to have a conversation with donald trump. >> one of trump's biggest problems if you believe the statistics and the focus groups is with women. ivanka is true. her feelings are honest and great. early in the campaign she introduced her father when he came out. i'm not sure whether she will play a bigger role as time goes on. now that she has had her baby, we may see her out there more often. >> do you think privately she

challenges him. >> i asked her about it in the interview. she said yes i do challenge my father. i can't imagine a daughter who is a feminist herself who clearly believes in having exactly the same rights as men and equality in any other way couldn't be. she also talks to him -- i hopes she does, she is of a generation that would talk to her parent on issues such as sexuality, on race, all those issues where he is not playing well with the electorate. >> it was a fascinating piece. tim teaman thanks for your time. >> thank you. next, she has been called one of bernie sanders' key advisors. i'm talking about his wife, jane. she will join me live hours before she is set to hold a huge rally in new york's washington care park. that's next.

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you are watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. when bernie sanders was first elected to congress in 1990, she was his chief of staff. today, she is one of his most trusted advisors and debate coaches. she is also his wife of 28 years -- >> 27. >> 27. i was -- 27 years. 28 soon enough. >> that's true. >> jane sanders joins me now. it is so nice to meet you. thank you for swinging by cnn. >> nice to be here. >> i cannot imagine what life is like right now for the two of you. just on a more personal side getting into this. i was reading, people may not realize the two of you grew up 15 blocks from one another in brooklyn. >> we did. >> had no idea. >> no, no. we actually visited both old places that we grew up. and actually got into our old apartments over the last week, which was amazing.

>> that's wild. >> yeah. but we didn't know each other then. >> fast forward to time in vermont. >> yes. >> you find out -- you hear, who is this bernie sanders, this person running to be mayor of burlington. you even organize a debate for him having never met him. you meet him at victory party, which was the beginning of forever is a quote i read from you. what is the first date with bernie sanders like? over dinner is it talks of weather or wall street reform? >> actually the first time, at the victory party, he asked me to dance. and that was the end. i mean, it was like the beginning of everything. >> good dancer? >> yes. yeah, he is. nice, good slow dancer. so we had -- we just had a really nice time. we talked of course about the mayor's race and what he was going to do. so the next time was the actual first date, was when we went to a dinner at a mexican restaurant. and we did. we talked about what needed to be done in the city. >> you did? >> yes, we did. >> on substance immediately.

i had a feeling. that's why i wanted to ask. recently in the headlines, we know he has called and double downed on calling hillary clinton unequalified. i've talked to a lot of people. and whether you like or don't like hillary clinton, most folks say you can call her a lot of things but given her resume, unequalified is not the word to choose. >> i think you are starting at the wrong point. two days late early the campaign made it very clear that their strategy against bernie was disqualify, defeat and worry about uniting if party later. we watched surrogate after surrogate and the secretary herself being on air saying all the ways that he was unequalified without using that word. >> so it was response to the clinton camp specifically in that word usage? >> specifically. well, and what he tried to do was pivot. if we're going to talk about unequalified. let's talk about unequalified how. who is qualified? who has the judgment to -- who in terms of the iraq war, in terms of foreign affairs, in terms of trade, in terms of

chimt change. >> all the years in the new york senate and her years in new york state, did you ever have a moment with your husband where you said unequalified, maybe that wasn't the right word? >> i think -- i know it was in reaction to them using disqualified, which means to make unequalified. he used that term, but he pivoted immediately to the issues. and he talked about, you have to make your decision as to who is the best person for you, the person who defeats free trade and goes for fair trade? that type of thing. >> new york daily news endorsed hillary clinton and they specifically cited your husband's interview, which has been criticized as vague for one of the reasons why when he was sitting with the editorial board last week. and i know later he gave specifics and reaction to a lot of critics for that. did you have conversations with him that day about his vagueness whatsoever? >> you know what is interesting,

brooke is that i was in that interview listening. >> you were? >> and it was a conversation. and when you see only words down, it doesn't quite give the flavor of it. when you say -- you don't say i don't know. you say, i don't know, and go on. but he wasn't vague before or after. that was an hour-long interview. it was the fifth interview at i think 9:00 in the morning that morning. and it was a very odd interview. we commented on that afterwards, that it was more of an inquisition, hurry, hurry, interrupt, let's ask the questions don't let you even finish your answers. we didn't realize they were going to plant this transcript. so it became more evidence what they were trying to do. >> what ever came of donald trump defending your husband over the democratic system here? >> i think he was using it as an example. i don't think he is defending bernie but he was saying look it's happening on both sides. you have to admit the way they are doing things in terms of

super delegates and in terms of how delegates are put out there doesn't make a lot of sense to the average person. we understood those are the rules. weary playing by the rules. we're not complaining about it. >> you are not saying, yes, it's rigged? >> no. we're saying it's wrong. >> it's wrong? >> we're saying it's not a democratic way to carry out an election. here in new york people had to decide last october who they were going to support in this race. >> independents can't -- >> independents can't participate at all. i thought we were trying to invigorate our democracy. we are bringing a lot of new people into the party. and it's too bad they are shutting the door on them. so there are so many things that are wrong in terms of how they are carrying out -- you have seen so many voter irregularities. we just heard from the media on monday that denver had miscounted the results in ten precincts and that bernie got two more delegates. but they didn't bother to tell us the week after the election. they found out.

they called the clinton campaign. they didn't bother the tell us. we heard from the media this week. i understand his frustration. we're used to being non-establishment. we're used to not having them be really in our corner. so it's not a surprise. but it's something that should change. one person, one vote. >> we were just having a conversation about that. i think that's going to be something we chat about post november. with regard to your husband. he is so out there. i think people have a sense what he stands for. what is the one thing, a misconception or something you wish we knew about your husband? >> i wish you knew how effective he was as a legislator. people say we don't think he has accomplished anything. he passed the most significant piece of legislation in the entire last congress, the veteran's bill, the comprehensive veteran's bill, which was the most comprehensive veteran's bill done since the g.i. bill and won him the award from the -- the highest award from the vfw and the american

legion. that's only one of his latest accomplishments. he has been an incredibly ceo as mayor and legislator as congressman and senator. nobody knows thattest because we are not talking about the issues. we are talking around the issues, talking process and polls all the time. >> i think for the most part it's been substantive on the democratic side. >> comparatively speaking, yes. >> we also know he was out with folks from versus today. i don't know if we have the sound byte, or if we want to play it. in fact, do we have the sound byterom the verizon ceo? >> i didn't see it yet. >> he called him essentially uninformed. called your husband uninformed. how do you react to that? >> well, i think that is something that the establishment is trying to pant him as,

unequalified, uninformed. he is well informed. i have to say that the democratic party has two of the most brilliant people running for office. and i think bernie certainly knows the issues about trade, about communications, about union rights. and you know, i can understand that the ceo disagrees. but he is not misinformed. >> two more questions. one being so we have our debate, the cnn debate in brooklyn tomorrow night, not too far from where you are from. and then you all are hopping on a plane because senator sanders has been invited to speak at the vatican. >> yeah. >> and then you are hopping back on a plane to be back in new york for the primary. >> yes. >> what will you be doing while you are in rome. >> well we'll sleep on the plane hopefully a little bit. and get there and he immediately goes into the conference. >> to speak? >> yes, the vatican has asked him to speak as a world leader about a moral economy. now we know pope francis has been such leader on this.

it's an honor that he could not possibly refuse. so he will be speaking there. and then there are some academics and other world leaders that will be talking about the subject with him. i think there will be three speakers. and then we'll be pretty much coming right home so we can get going on saturday and not miss really any time. >> final question. if you close your eyes and you hear larry david and you hear your husband, could you tell the difference? >> i can tell the difference. i definitely can tell the difference. but larry david is pretty amazing. he is funny. >> what's the difference? how can you tell? >> i don't know. i do know my husband's voice, i have to say. >> okay. jane sanders, thank you so much. we'll see you in brooklyn. nice to meet you. >> nice to meet you as well. >> thank you. back after this.

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as republicans inch even closer to a contested convention, senator ted cruz is scooping of dozens of delegates that will abandon trump on the second ballot.

downing me now, arkansas state senator bart hester who supported marco rubio. bart, nice to have you on. >> hey, thanks for having me, brooke. >> i'm just curious, first out of the gate, have you heard from anyone from the cruz campaign trying to woo you? >> well, you know, i'm friends with the cruz state chairman, state representative bob ballinger and he is certainly working hard for the cruz campaign and encouraged us to support cruz and the national delegation. >> so as perhaps you wou support cruz, i'm curious if you have received, as we've been hearing reports, any threats from trump supporters? >> oh, i think there's threats in everything we do in politics. but you know right now, i'd like to be very clear that i still have a marco rubio sign in my yard and i'm rubio to the end. should it get down to those two guys and i'm going to be --

should i be an elected delegate there at the national convention, between the two, trump and cruz, i would be changing my vote to cruz for sure. >> is it a given, do you think, that if it goes to a contested convention and it goes to a second ballot, do you think that is when ted cruz really could come out on top? >> you know, for me looking at it, i can totally agree with that. i think ted cruz would come out on top. i think that's one thing that you've got to give it to the cruz campaign. they have looked at the short game in reach get 1,237 delegates and they have been looking at the long game as far as a contested convention. i think that's something that we've seen that trump was a little short-cited in assuming he would get 1,237 and i think it's going to be a heck of a convention. >> i know you say you have your marco rubio sign still in your front yard. we know that senator rubio said in an interview with conservative commentator mark levine his quote was i hope

they'll nominate a conservative. the only one, presidential candidate, that fits that criteria is ted cruz. what do you make of that? i don't even know if you want to call that a half-baked endorsement. >> i can tell you i've heard from the rubio campaign and they have encouraged me to elect level-headed people who can make good decisions should times get hectic at the national convention. that's their only requirement, level-headed people and that's what i intend to do. >> bart hester in arkansas, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> you got it. coming up next, hillary clinton and michelle obama appear to be friends in public, but a new book about america's first lady depicts a much rockier relationship behind closed doors. the author of that book joins me to reveal what she learned about what's happening behind the scenes. you both have a

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first lady michelle obama and former first lady hillary clinton appear quite friendly in public, but a new book "first women, the grace and power of america's modern first ladies" depicts a different kind of relationship behind closed doors. with me now the author, kate anderson brower. congratulations on the book. let's begin with what's really getting this attention. you wrote the 2008 presidential campaign left deep and lasting scars on both the clinton and obama camps and they are still shockingly fresh. what does that mean? >> well, my sources told me that michelle obama really isn't political. she doesn't love campaigning. she's looking forward to leaving the white house. hillary clinton is a very different person. you know, she obviously can't wait to get back into the white house. what was said in 2008 in the primary is it was a very tough primary. a lot of nasty things happened and it's hard to forgive some of that. you see that again and again with some first ladies, there's some bad blood between them.

but the book is about the sorority of first ladies, the sisterhood that spans political party and spans generations. >> let me quickly read, this is a comment we have from the east wing. the white house claims made in the book are unequivocally false and poorly researched. photos show warm moments between these two women. how would you respond to that? >> i'm sure they wouldn't want to say publicly that they don't love each other. i was told that laura bush and michelle obama have a closer relationship than michelle obama has with hillary clinton. i don't thinkhat's something that the white house would want to publicly admit to so i'm not surprised by that. >> in terms of the sisterhood and the stories, you were talking about letters. >> the chief usher at the time who was friends with a lot of first ladies, pat nixon was very sick with lung cancer and so it was her 81st birthday. he went to every former first lady, including hillary clinton, this was in the '90s, and asked them to write a letter to pat and just tell her what she had meant to them.

and so i read through these wonderful letters that barbara bush said you don't get credit for all you did in the white house. and if history is any judge, you will be remembered fondly and we love you. it was just a really moving thing. hillary clinton said some glowing things to pat nixon that i think shows this crosses party lines. and hillary clinton has really defended pat nixon in the white house and said, you know, you don't know to one of her aides who was being critical of pat nixon, she said you have no idea what pat did for this country as first lady. she was really victimized after watergate. so these are women who understand they're wives and mothers and understand how tough this job is. there's no job like it on earth. there's no job description. >> can you imagine in that kind of spotlight in that kind of home, very few women on this planet can relate to that. >> right. hillary clinton reached out to jackie kennedy for advice on how to raise chelsea in the white house because jackie did such a great job, so they reach out to

each other over the years. i think that's a beautiful thing. >> the book is "first women." you've also written a number of others. thank you so much. thank you for being with me. "the lead with jake tapper" starts right now. >> thanks, brooke. donald trump going to battle. he's calling it the art of the steal. "the lead" starts right now. just one day until the battle in brooklyn and something that has never happened before in this campaign happens for senator bernie sanders, but will it matter when all the delegates and super delegates are counted? donald trump now waging all-out war with the republican party over rules that could keep him from hitting that magic number, but how far is he willing to go in this feud? plus, body count. the pentagon claims 25,000 isis fighters have been killed, but they offer little proof as the terror group continues