tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN July 22, 2016 11:00am-1:01pm PDT
here we go, top of the hour. you're watching cnn, i'm brooke bald are in. we begin in munich, germany where we are getting reports of gunfire at a mcdonald's at a munich shopping mall. we have pictures of what appears to be a suspected gunman opening fire. we'll play just a short clip for you but obviously this is disturbing to look at.
all right. let me also just be crystal clear -- we don't know if the man in the black t-shirt you saw a second ago is the gunman or not. in fact, what we're getting from law enforcement is that the perpetrator -- note that's plural -- they don't know where they are. our affiliate is reporting multiple people are dead. more are wounded. police there in munich telling cnn, again, there could be more than one gunman. none of whom, by the way, according to reporting, have been caught. police now telling people avoid the mall, stay inside your home, do not post pictures or video of the police operations, to quote them, they don't want you to "help the perpetrator." we have a couple of voices, will ripl ripley, following developments for us and also cnn security
analyst, bob bare. will ripley, to you first. tell me what you know. >> it appears there may actually be a second location where there is also an incident unfolding just within the last 20 minutes or so. this from a spokesperson for munich police. "a large police operation at the center of town" this is separate from the northwest side of munich where the olympia shopping center is located. you have an incident in the northwest of the shopping center. police confirming in the last 20 minutes an indent in the center of munich. the situation is unclear. police are not just asking people to avoid the shopping center. they're telling people in munich to avoid all public areas right now. they say they do not have the shooters. they're now saying shooters, plural, in custody. this is obviously a very frightening scenario for people in germany who just three days ago there was an ax attack on a
train. an afghan teenager who pledged allegiance to isis was shot by police in that attack. no claim of responsibility in this. but we do have multiple shoot g ing locations, multiple deaths in germany. we were just covering about a week ago, in nice, france, talking about an isis-inspired terror attack. >> can't even believe it was a week ago i was standing next to you in nice, now we are talking about munich. bob, to you. again this is so totally fluid and new. what does your gut tell you so far? >> well, i think it's same thing. look, multiple shooters. public areas. random slaughter. germany was under threat after the train attack, the germans said there would be an attack.
soft targets. i would go right down the list and the chances of this being terrorism is very high and chances of it being islamic state inspired or directed is very high. unfortunately, europe is under attack. europe is going to change very quickly as long as these things keep thing. >> general, you are familiar with munich. yes? do you know where this mcdonald's is or even this potential second incident will described in the center of the city? >> yes, brooke, i've actually been there about a month ago. we were about an hour south of munich. this shopping center is in the northwest portion of munich. multiple roads coming in and out of there. it is a very touristy popular area of town. it is the old -- it's near where the old olympic stadium in and some of the olympic events from
the '72 olympics. i'll jump on to what will was saying. the ax incident earlier in the week was in worstberg. this was is in munich. both are in the state of bavaria in the southern part of the country. it is also the area where most of the immigrants had flown through as they came up from italy and through austria. so as you go to germany today, very different than when i commanded forces in europe three years ago. there is an obvious change in the cultural patterns. you are seeing a lot more refugees and immigrants throughout the cities. german government has really distributed about 11,200,000 immigrants and refugees in the various states. the state of bavaria, which has munich and several other major cities, very popular for
vacationing, and it is where most of the beer and bmws and mercedes are produced. a lot of germans go there during the summertime. you are getting ready to enter the period of time where germans take off. so there are a lot of germans from other parts of the country near munich right now, and the area is crowded. that shopping center with the mcdonald's in the basement is very popular right across the street, there is in fact a parking lot. once you get between the parking lot and the major shopping center, lot of confusing corridors and a lot of places to hide. >> that was -- wow. think about the timing. you point out this is a time of year when a lot of people are on holiday, not just people from munich but many other germans. the fact that this is a mcdonald's, right? an american, western brand. apparently this all started happening around 5:50 p.m. local. so people popping in for dinner. bob baer, again, we've been in
france. we've talked a lot about france, we've talked about ties. no one knows who directed this or why, but everyone's thoughts obviously go to potential terror and cells. we talked a lot about france, even as recent as nice and knowing that there were connections in nice, in certain neighborhoods. tell me about germany. >> germany's even more vulnerable because, frankly, the german police are not as good as the french police. they haven't had these problems with refugees before. we don't know it is a refugee, by the way. and there's always the question we should get to right away -- they don't know where the gunmen are. the possibility that they're in the ha the mall. a police assault on that mall would be a nightmare. there are so many places to hide. they can't get listens devices in. cameras are in complete, the coverage. again, we go back to the hallmarks. we've done this dozens and
dozens of times. it has the hallmarks of the islamic state. this is not a military target, of course. most casualties they can carry out. crowded time. and germany has been under threat. it really is. they don't even know where to start to close this down. >> let's talk about what's happening right now. you bring up a great point, that that are perpetrators, plural. they don't know where they are. this has happened in this mcdonald's, in this shopping center, as you point out, soft target. according to will, there's some other location potentially in the center of munich. what are law enforcement doing right now to find these gunmen? >> they're collecting intelligence. they're finding out how many. they're talking to eyewitnesses that saw them go in, what kind of weapons, were they carrying explosives. because that will make a big difference in the assault. if they weren't, it is a lot easier to go in. a lot of people probably run out
of that mall and they're talking to them right now. they simply can't go into that mall shooting because there would be a lot of innocent people killed. if there's multiple targets -- let's don't forget, first reports are always pretty inaccurate. that makes it even worse. but at the end of the day germany has closed down one of its most important cities probably because of a terrorist attack. and this gives you an idea, again, where the problem europe is facing. >> bob, stay with me. general hertling stay with me. one more voice, tom few weapon t -- fuentes is on with us, former assistant director of the fbi. munich, authorities are telling people in munich, avoid all public areas. they're talking to eyewitnesses, gathering intelligence. what else are police doing right now? >> they would also be trying to see if there is any video footage available from those malls, if there's other information, if they're able to get cell phone information from
the cell companies there that someone was using it to communicate that might be a familiar number to them. but again, to bob's point about shutting down the city like this, it is a friday night in munich, beautiful city, summertime. to shut that down, the whole downtown area, the whole city is basically a soft target. so you have the mall, but you have restaurants, parks and promenades. so at this time of day, it is pretty hard to get everyone back into their homes safely to lock it down. that's another problem, just the time of day and the day of the week makes it all the more difficult for the police. >> general hertling, have you actually been inside of this mcdonald's? >> not the mcdonald's but the mall, brooke. let me, if i can, comment on what tom says because he brings up very good points. first, munich is a city of 1.7
million people. you're not going to lock down the entire city. but this area in the northwest region has a lot of commuter traffic from people who work in the suburbs, but also, as he said, it is a friday evening. other thing that's important to realize about the summertime in europe is the germans have a word which means vacation. when they have a vacation period, certain parts of the country literally shut down and travel to the vacation land. it is usually sequenced a week at a time. you'll either have people flowing in to munich or flowing out of munich on a friday night depending on when their vacation period is. and mcdonald's, you know, for us in the united states, mcdonald's is a fast food place. it is a cultural icon in germany. it's almost better than going to a fancy restaurant when you have children, believe it or not. and a lot of germ rns really love what they call mcds.
so there were probably quite a few people in that mcdonald's at 5:15 on a friday afternoon when the work week is over and the weekend is about to start. >> if you are just joining us here, 10 minutes past the hour, covering breaking news out of munich, germany. reports of a fatal shooting inside of this shopping mall, in munich. unknown number of casualties. the shooters, plural, are at large. the situation is fluid. this is the point where very early on where we don't have a lot of information. let me just be totally transparency with you. according to this police spokeswoman, she said there could be several dead but there is no confirm at least thus far on casualties. we know that a number of people have been wounded. apparently cnn has talked to a woman who works in a store within this same shopping mall where you have this mcdonald's. she was actually inside during the shooting. and she told cnn she heard several shots inside the mall. let me quote her.
she said, "i was just going to buy something while my co-worker was still in the shop. people started running. i went outside as well. more people running outside. i think i heard more shots. and then it sounded like he went to the parking house next to the mall" where she heard several more shots there. guys, let me know in will ripley is still standing by in london. yes, will, tell me what you're hearing and also guidance from law enforcement as far as shutting the city down, staying home. okay, no will ripley. bob baer, just repeating myself, as i wait to get more information, we're use being the -- using these same pictures, families, running, walking quickly away from the shots. what's happening on the ground right now?
>> well, it sounds to me based on the police statements, it's a shoot-and-run case where the shooter took the most casualties he could, in the mcdonald's, then maybe ran into the mall. unless there is multiple shooters there. the same question you and i are asking, the police are asking, too. i've done -- studies takedowns a lot. and when you have such a big mall, you don't know where they are. this could go on for a very, very long time. collecting jennings about something like this, as tom was saying, you need cell phone, camera coverage, cctv. but it is assembling all that quickly, truly a nightmare for the police. if it had been a single location, it would have been settled by now. but in fact they haven't identified the shooters. a lot killed. some german newspapers reporting up to a dozen. >> up to a dozen what? >> dead.
that probably will be corrected at some point. but the point is, in munich right now, there's panic. >> i've got an eyewitness on the phone. lynn, i was just reading a quote from you, you work in a store in this shopping complex. are you okay, first and foremost? >> i'm okay. yes. what did you see, what did you hear? >> i left the story because i was going to buy something, so i left my partner in the store. i was in this other store when sudden suddenly there was fire. people were confused and i started running outside. so i just joined them, run outside. i think there were more shots fired inside the mall at that
point. i was outside and just waiting for something to happen. people were screaming and running outside from the building, fleeing the building, when i heard several shots from what i believed to be the car house, the parking house next to the mall. and i heard several shots fired there or from that direction. i went back inside the mall then because i wanted to check out my co-worker because she didn't answer the phone. so i went back inside. when i went there, there was like a couple of people from a shoe store and i asked them whether they were okay and what was going on. and i saw other shops, they had already closed and were evacuated. i told them to leave and close up as well so they did that. as i continued forward to my store and a man came running toward me and he said, we have two stories in the shopping mall. i was upstairs walking upstairs to my store and he said -- he's
downstairs, he's downstairs, they're coming toward me. i ran to my mall. co-worker wasn't there. i ran outside again. police told us all to leave the area, evacuate the area, go on the op siposite side of the str so i did that while i tried to figure out what's going on. and this was about i think 15 minutes that it actually happened. things have been going on from that point on. >> let me -- wow. let me just jump in. sounds to me as you're describing the shots from within the mall, the shots from parking house, we say parking garage. we have actually now heard from witnesses reporting three different people with guns. so this isn't a single shooter situation according to eyewitnesses. they're seeing three different people which perhaps would explain how you are hearing these shots from multiple locations. tell me, lynn, how close is your
store to this mcdonald's? >> it's pretty close. i also heard from a lady outside but we have two shopping malls right next to each other and apparently somebody's in the other shopping mall, they were shot there, too. and the mcdonald's is opposite the street. in other words the shopping mall and on the other side of the street there is the mcdonald's where he had supposedly also went to. and this lady that i spoke to when i was standing on the street outside, she said she was just having a coffee when she saw someone and heard the shots. she actually saw the person. she said he was like dressed in black and had a mask. she said he had a big gun. there was an escalator close to her and people running up or down the escalator. and he shot at them. he fired shots at them and they were hurt. she said her -- actually when i ran through to the store when i
walked to the store, i saw somebody lying on the ground as well. and a woman like over him or her. i don't know. crying. so i don't know what happened with them. that was pretty -- >> this is horrendous. this is horrendous that this is now happening in germany. that was the first description we have from you. just looking at the map, we can see exactly where munich is. that's the first description we have from the person you spoke with, one of the gunman, dressed in black with a mask, holding a very large gun. for you all it was around a sort of early dinner time. i'm seeing a lot of people in a lot of these pictures. how crowded are these shopping malls at this time of day? >> relatively crowded. this time of day it is usually packed. but it was was pretty nice weather so usually when the weather is nice there's not that
many people in the mall but definitely a couple hundred people in the mall at the point where it happened. >> have you been inside this mcdonald's, lynn? are you familiar with it? >> i'm definitely familiar with it, yes. i've been there a couple times. >> is it small? is it large? >> it's medium size. i mean it's not american size mcdonald's. like for a german, it is two stories. mcdonald's, there's downstairs and a big seating areas upstairs. >> i'm sure being in europe you have followed what's happened over the course of really the last couple of months. the thing is, we don't know who these people are or why they're doing this. but nice just happened a week ago. and i'm sure you've been following these attacks. far, far too many of them. how have you felt as a german knowing this is happening close to home?
>> well, germany's always been very safe. so i wasn't fearful or anything of this happening. i think the general population of germany wasn't either. but like personally, i definitely saw it as an option that could happen. but you know, like oktoberfest, for example, it's very popular. i guess people are a little bit suspicious that maybe something might happen there. because there is a lot of people gathering from. and it would be, you know, a target. but this is like -- definitely surprising. very sudden and very surreal. >> absolutely you think of germany as an entirely safe place. you have this ax attack on the plane, also in the same state of bavaria earlier this week. now this. lynn stein, please stay safe.
thank you for jumping on the phone with me. again, if you're just joining us -- again, i have to reiterate, we don't have a lot. but we do know according to multiple witnesses that cnn has been in touch with, people have seen three different gunmen, three different gunmen here. we're also reporting potentially two different locations. you just heard lynn describe hearing shots from there, two different shopping malls, one where that mcdonald's is located and another across the street. the nature, number of victims is currently unclear. police they've deployed all available emergency services. you have s.w.a.t. there in munich. federal police. neighboring jurisdictions all working this. but still at this moment no gunman has been arrested. we are hearing gunmen, plural, from law enforcement. the police operation is running at the very highest level. and so what is just so stunning here on a friday evening in the middle of summer where you have
lots and lots of people out and about enjoying themselves. they're asking everyone to shelter in place, to stay home. if you're not home already, go home in this massive, more than 1 million-person city in southern germany. asking people to stay home, take shelter. public transportation is now currently suspended. that is what we have so far here as we are covering breaking news out of munich. we'll work on getting a little more information for you here. we'll be right back. we're b
shopping mall. police say it happened at least in part, we're getting reports of multiple gunmen and in multiple locations. but in one part within this mcdonald's witnesses say they have counted at least three different shooters. we do have pictures of what appears to be one of the suspected gunman opening fire. before i show it to you though, just know the video is disturbing. >> police are telling people in munich do not go anywhere near
the shopping mall. stay inside your homes. and in addition to the shopping mall location in the northwest part of the city, there is now a second police operation in effect right now in the city center. so we have a number of voices on this as we are working really hard to get you more information here. i've got bob baer still with me, general hertling is still with me. bob baer, i don't know if you listened to my conversation with this eyewitness who just described to me multiple -- what seemed to be multiple locations of shots. she described two separate shopping malls, a parking garage. we are also talking about this mcdonald's as it is part of one of the malls. multiple gunmen. no one's been caught. what does that tell you? >> well, it takes me back to istanbul on the attack at the airport. we had multiple shooters. no suicide vests so far, but it tells me this was clearly an organized attack. if the eyewitness accounts are right. often they hear echoes and there is only one shooter.
but in this case she sounded like she knew what she was talking about. if indeed there was another location in downtown munich, that's another bad sign this is just sort of an assault on the city of munich. i guarantee you the death toll is going to go up from the three that have been reported with this dined of an attack. these are all vulnerable targets. very difficult for police to deploy, get themselves in position, find out hot shooters are. and getting automatic weapons in to town which isn't absolutely -- it's not everywhere in munich. so i think the situation's going to go on for a long time. i find it very disturbing that the police don't know how many shooters there are. just multiple ones. >> they do not know. that's exactly right. they keep using the wore request -- word "perpetrators." if eyewitnesses are correct, they're describing three different gunmen. general hertling, if people are just seeing this for the first time, you are so extraordinarily
familiar having been in this part of munich just a month ago. >> munich is a terrific city, first of all, a population of a 1.5 million, maybe a little bit more. this shopping center is in the northwestern part of munich. it is a typical german shopping center. not splar to malimilar to malls united states which are usually in a building in the middle of town with a parking garage next door with some restaurants connected to it as this mcdonald's is. the mcdonald's in europe and specifically in germany is a very popular restaurant. different than our fast food where we go in and grab a burger. a lot of german families go there as sort of a special treat because it is -- as silly as it sounds, it is acting as imported food. what's interesting about this, the german police are exceedingly good at what they do. the german police are the most
disciplined and very rigorous police force that i've seen anywhere in the world. they also have very good connections with intelligence agencies, both the state and the federal intelligence agencies in germany. as we passed when i was commanding in europe and living in germany, we passed quite a bit of intelligence information between us in terms of terrorist threats and terrorist flow through germany. as i mentioned before, munich is in the same state of bavaria where the last attack was from earlier in the week where there was the ax attack on the train traveling between the ining ori there. it is where a lot of americans go for vacation. as the person you had from the mall mentioned, it is the site of oktoberfest. they're getting ready in the next month or two to add the world's biggest beer fest in munich. and it's just a great place to
visit. so everything your offense guests have said in terms of this being a popular city, the shooting taking place about 5:15, the start of the weekend, at a restaurant, in a shopping mall on a beautiful summer's day in munich all contributes to the aspect of how the citizens will be fearful of what's going on there. the other thing i'd mention, brooke, in listening to the film -- this is conjecture right now on my part -- but it sounded like -- the shots fired sounded to me like a semi-automatic pistol as opposed to a rifle. i'm certainly not saying that is in fact fact. but it was certainly a semi-automatic weapon. and if you had three shooters all with semi-automatic weapons and if they were pistols and could be hidden in clothing, as they went in to the different malls or thrown away, it is a lot easier to get rid of pistols than it would long rifles or automatic weapons. >> we have that sound. let's play that, guys. the control room, let's play
that sound again in case people haven't heard it. roll it. >> bob baer, what do you hear there? do you hear anything that jumps out at you? >> the germans saying "run for it." i agree with general hertling, sounds like a 9 millimeter semi-automatic to me. easy to buy in europe on the market, the black market there. what the other shooters are, we don't know. but when somebody is firing a gun, all of a sudden -- and
people react by running -- but it just to the advantage of the shooter. and especially if they've moved on to other locations like the parking garage and the rest of it. are these people committing martyrdom? are they suicide? we just don't know at this point. but clearly vulnerable targets. again, i'll go back and go out on a limb here, it's got the hallmarks of the islamic state, especially the fact that there are multiple shooters. >> these are live pictures on the right side of your screen here. number of people are just standing around waiting. you can see they cordoned off the crime scene area. s.w.a.t., multiple police, you hear the sirens there in munich. will ripley is our correspondent who's been gathering information. wi will, we're honing in on this one shopping center location in the northwestern part of munich where this mcdonald's is located. but talk to me about what police are reporting as far as a second location. what do you know now? >> so the olympia mall that you
see most of the video from is on the northwest side of munich. but this second location is in the city center. police said that there is a very large operation happening there right now. we know that subway service has been disrupted. bus service has been disrupted. there is a lot on social media saying that there might have been some sort of an indent as one of the metro stations. but that could also be confusion because metro stations city wide are being evacuated a the a result of this. it is significant that the munich police in addition to saying that there are multiple shooters and even reporting that witnesses say three shooters, they're also telling people not just to avoid the shopping mall, not just to avoid the city center. they're telling people to avoid, and to actually evacuate, all public areas in munich right now. that gives you an idea of just how tense, how potentially dangerous the situation is in this city which on a typical friday evening, people would be out getting their weekends started but instead they're being told to lock down in their homes and monitor the media for information and monitor police social media feeds as well.
is this a new terrifying reality for europe, brooke? we were just less than a week ago in nice, france, where 84 people were killed and more than 200 people were injured. just three days ago in germany, an afghan teen who pledged allegiance to isis pulled out an ax and attacked people on a train. he was shot by police but he injured four people in the process. while there is no official claim of responsibility here or official word about a motive, obviously the first thing that comes to people's minds is terrorism. and it is here in europe. and people are afraid. >> will ripley, thank you so much for that. keep your ear to the ground for us. former virginia governor, jim gilmore. wanted to be president this year. but interestingly, governor gilmore, i know you are with me. you used to work counterintelligence in what then was west germany in the '70s. you're fluent in german. what are you thinking, what are you hearing? >> well, it's obviously a terrorist attack, brooke.
as you probably know -- >> why do you say obviously? >> well, because as indiscriminate shooting attack in a crowded place that attack civilians, and it is for the purpose of creating terror and caring out that kind of mission. so clearly this is what's going on. as chairman of the gilmore commission that studied these kinds of issues for five years, from '98 to 2002, we predicted that these kinds of attacks would occurred worldwide and specifically in the united states. and they will. >> and by the way, just need to remind our viewers, i hear you that your gut tells you terrorism. we do the no have that confirmed. we do not have any evidence linking all of this. that said, how familiar are you, governor, with munich and these locations and especially in the wake of what's happened and elsewhere in europe? >> very familiar with it. while i was stationed at nato headquarters in heidelberg, i traveled all throughout europe and specifically spent a great deal of time in munich. it is a great city, lovely city,
wonderful, exciting, dynamic place. makes a perfect terrorism target. i might remind you, by the way, that this is within a stone's throw of the 1972 black september attack at the munich olympic stadium right up the street from this very location. it is high-profile. it is an attack on a european country that plays a very significant role in europe. it is intended to be broadcast in the highest possible way. it is clearly, in my view, a terrorist attack. and the question is not whether it is or it isn't. we will he a find that out. the question is where do we go from here and what do we do. my commission report suggests a direction. now we have all these years later, we have to get started. >> you know, on that very simple but profound question of what do we do, i mean i was just on the promenade in nice a week ago where 84 people were killed after that man plowed through them after they had been enjoying bastille day, fireworks, music. you know, soft target.
i think of dhaka, bangladesh, the cafe, that soft target. in istanbul, multiple shooters at that airport. soft target. >> or the boston marathon or san bernardino or orlando or any of the other examples we're seeing. including here. listen, here's the answer in my view. number one, we have to recognize two things. that we have to be supportive of our intelligence community, our local law enforcement people, doesn't mean we spy on all americans all the time. but with proper warrants and proper targeting we can disrupt -- and are disrupting some of these things in the united states and worldwide. our commission report said you had to focus on local law enforcement and the intelligence community and build them up. more importantly than that -- this is something that has not been done -- you got to get into the heads and begin to win the actual argument with people who are out there thinking about doing something like this. it's one of two things. either it is a directed attack
from an organization like al qaeda or like isis in which case it is a military attack and you have to be prepared for that. but sometimes it's just influenced attacks where somebody out there just says, i just want to support radical islamism, i want to support isis, i'm going to follow their guidance, i'm going to go do this. you have to begin to win the political and ind electricitell ideological argument and say this is an atrocity, it is a crime against humanity so somebody will hesitate to pick up an ax or gun and kill people. until we win that kind of argument you are going to see these kinds of attacks. >> someone i also trust in terms of intelligence, bob baer. bob? >> you know, we have to face the root causes of what's causing this. it's a form of islam which is
skiz mattic. it starts in syria. it starts in iraq. and this virus is picking up in europe and we have to get to the root of this. what do these people think, what do they want, what are they reacting to before we actually do something about it. i do not belief that bombi inin raqqa or taking mosul will end this. i do worry about europe. french, the germans, are turning right, turning completely against refugees which will be added problems. and we just have -- we have to change course on this. simply bombing these places with drones and f-16s is not going to do it. i think once we come to that recognition we're on the path to curing this. and it is curable. it's been done before. >> let me ask all of you to stand by, please, as we continue to cover breaking news. multiple gunmen on the loose in what sounds to me like a fatal shooting. the question is how many are
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welcome back. breaking news here on cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. what we know from munich -- we don't know a whole heck of a lot. but it is being reported as a fatal shooting, multiple people reported dead. that number we don't have yet. multiple people roared injured. that number we don't have either as this has happened really just in the past hour at this shopping mall. police say at least one of the shooting locations -- i say one of, because there are reports of multiple, also -- happened at this mcdonald's which sits within this shopping center. according to witnesses cnn has spoken to, they have seen at least three different shooters. we have some video of who appears to be potentially one of the suspected gunman shooting. you'll hear the gunfire in just a second. but just to warn you before we roll this, the video is disturbing.
>> police are telling those in munich, stay home, lock your doors if you are in these neighborhoods. do not post videos of the police operation. they don't want to help these perpetrators. according to law enforcement, there is also a massive second police operation going on elsewhere. this second operation happening really in the center of the city as well. will ripley is our correspondent who's been working on this and bringing us new information here every several minutes or so. so, will, still no one has been
arrested. correct? >> that's right. which means that there is still a clear and present danger for people who are in munich which is why police have told people that they need to stay inside their homes or offices or any safe place away from public areas. in fact the u.s. state department also put out a tweet just a short time ago also telling people to shelter in place and to monitor the local media. and to not go outside until they know the situation is all leer. we don't know how many people have been killed. several is the number that we're hearing, possibly three, possibly more. in addition to that, people are injured at the olympia mall on the northwest side of munich. also a second ongoing situation in the city center. reports that a major metro station, subway station, has been vevacuated. we do know the rail service, subway service in munich has stopped for the moment. city is essentially locked down.
public transportation is is not moving. police are being told to stay inside on what otherwise would be a very busy friday night. this is just a few days after an ax attack linked to isis on a commuter train. four injured, four police shot. that teenage afghan refugee who pledged allegiance to isis. then wa week ago in nice, franc, a terror attack killed more than 84 people and injured more than 200. people are beginning to wonder if this is a new trend. isis has been calling for quite some time for attacks on germany being a key ez au.s. ally. >> the number of people in munich, how law enforcement are telling people to shelter in place, if people were in this area, were those who live in munich who are in these locations near the shootings are tweeting with a # -- or tweeting
in german obviously but the hashtag translation is open door, offering up shelter for those who need it for those on social media. so you have that happening now in germany. i have lynn stein, she's been good fluff to stenough to stay . lynn works in a store in one of these shopping malls and she has heard a number of shots. are you still with me? >> i'm still here, yeah. >> so you are still safe. tell me, for people who did not hear our conversation earlier, what did you hear? >> well, i was outside my store because i was going to buy something when i heard shots fired. i heard the noise. i mean i didn't identify it as shots at first. people started screaming and running outside. i followed them. i heard several shots then. i was outside.
i think there were more shots from inside the mall and more people running around, screaming, scared, confused. a few minutes after -- maybe five minutes after, i heard shots from a separate location. seemed to be coming from the location of a parking garage which is like next to the mall. and then i went back inside the mall because i tried to call my co-worker on the phone but she didn't pick up and i didn't know whether she was safe because i had left her alone in the store when i went out to buy my stuff. and she didn't pick up. so i went back inside the mall to go to my store and see whether she was okay, whether she was outside. and most of the stores that i passed by were empty and evacuated and some had closed the doors. inpa i passed by one store that was still open with maybe four or five people working there. i ask them if they are okay and they say, yeah, butthy didn't
really know what was going on either, but should she close down the store. i said yeah. i went toward my store. some guy was walking toward me. we have two stories and i was upstairs in the mall. he came towards me and said he's downstairs, he's downstairs. so i went faster. i saw somebody lying on ground. a woman above them, was either dead or badly hurt. she she was crying. i went into the store and she wasn't there so i just left on the other side of the street and police said, yeah, okay, everybody stay back, everybody get on the other side of the street. stay back. it's been like this for two hours now and they still have the people on the streets. i guess some people can go back home but the street is closed. >> are you heading home? >> no, i would like to head home but i cannot. i can't go home because the street is closed i have to take.
so i am just sitting around and waiting for the situation to clear up. >> we've seen pictures of a number of people standing around and waiting. i imagine they are in the same predicament but they should be home. that's what law enforcement wants for them but you're sort of stuck in this perimeter. can you tell me, this is a friday evening. it was early evening right around dinner time when we got reports of shots within this mcdonald's. how crowded in this part of the city is it? >> the part of the city in itself isn't very crowded. but lots of people come to the shopping mall on friday and saturday especially to shop or hang out or get something to drink or something. so you know, so it was fairly crowded. not overly crowded. but it was like medium. >> medium crowded. >> medium crowded.
i understand. so other than sort of frustration that you can't go home, last question -- how are you feeling? >> well, currently, kind of okay. it's been a while now. i was very shaken up when it happened. right now i'm just basically waiting. i feel a bit shaky actually, but all in all, i'm okay. >> lynn stein, i really appreciate you and your voice. thank you so much for sharing with us what you're seeing, what you have heard. please stay safe. law enforcement asking obviously those who are not within this perimeter to go home and to stay home. again, to reiterate, you're seeing on the screen witnesses saying they've seen at least three different people with guns, none of whom at this moment have been caught. more on the breaking news here. imhe a brooke baldwin. quick break, back after this. [beekeeper] from bees to business expenses,
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here we go, top of the hour. you're watching cnn breaking news. i'm brooke baldwin. on this friday afternoon we are reporting on what happens happening in munich, germany. reports of several people killed, several more injured. police say gunmen, plural, opened fire near a mcdonald's at a munich shopping mall. we have video of the deadly incident. it is caught on someone's cell phone. before we roll it, the video is disturbing.
rnc. republican national convention. we have pictures. as far as what has happened now, police tell us there could be more than one gunman. witnesses tell us they have seen at least three. in addition to this shopping mall area, we are learning about a second police operation under way in the center of the city. two locations at least, according to these early reports. authorities say they don't know where the perpetrators, plural, are, and are telling people in the city, avoid the mall, stay inside your homes. people who are -- live near the scene are actually taking to social media and using the #tag in german which means open door just to offer refuge for these strangers who are stranded.
so with that, let me bring in our correspondent, will ripley. will, i am now just hearing according to german media, six people are dead. >> that's the number we're hearing, brooke. as you know in these situations, numbers do change. it could up, it could go down. but the latest, six people reported dead. other people injured at that mcdonald's restaurant where you saw the video, at the olympia mall across from the mcdonald's, part of this large shopping complex on the northwest side of town. still that ongoing police situation in the center of munich. subway service has been stopped. bus service has been stopped. and this all unfolding in the middle of the evening rush hour. all of this disruption happened as many people in the city of more than 1.5 million were heading home from work, getting ready to begin their weekend. so there are a number of people who were told to evacuate public areas but may be far from their homes, may not have a place
nearby that they know of to go which is why you see that open door hashtag trending on german social media. state department telling americans in munich to shelter in place until further notice. obviously there are concerns that these shooters may still be on the run and still have the potential to hurt more people. we also need to keep the door open here about the motive here. while obviously your first thought is terrorism, this is a country -- germany is a country that's very divided. many people extremely xenophobic given that germany has welcomed so many refugees. we don't know if the gunman was perhaps a german themselves targeting outsiders, or if it was an outsider targeting germans. all of these details you need to consider but it doesn't diminish the fact that this is a terrifying situation once again in europe, a week that we've already seen so much terror already. >> we don't know what's happening. i'm so glad you made that point. terror or otherwise. i think just terror jumps in so many people's minds given all these different attacks in
europe and beyond recently. will ripley, stay with me. let me also pass along some information i was just harnd ha handed here. president of the united states just hours ago spoke with the president of mexico. we're going to turn the sound around for you but essentially what the president has said, we don't know exactly what is happening there, it is still an active situation, calling germany one of our closest allies and the president pledged all of the support they may need. juliet kayam, author of "security mom," you're watching all of this with me. what are you thinking? >> so i'm thinking what we're all thinking, and this is what you want law enforcement and germany to be thinking, is that this might be a coordinated terrorist attack, and so that is why you're seeing all these
pictures of law enforcement heavily armed. they're both local and federal in munich, at least from what i can tell visually. both the national and the local. what we don't know, brooke, is these other sort of police situations that we're hearing throughout the city. we don't know yet so we just have to be careful. we don't know if they are multiple attacks being addressed or if there was eyewitnesses of some of the suspects and the police have now surrounded them. i'm going to hold judgment on whether this is a multiple attack incident or whether we're actually just being in the world of twitter and facebook we're just seeing live police action. >> let me stop you and just direct everyone. don't know if you have a monitor where you are. you see these two police officers, these three bliz r gu police, they could be journalists trying to get a
little too close. >> we're literally in the situation. you and i always talk about an ongoing investigation. this is an ongoing attack. the motive matters to no one right now who is on the ground. whether these guys are islamic terrorists or right wing, no one cares right now. you need to stop the situation. right? you need to stop any potential future violence and they don't have any situational awareness right now. the german law enforcement officials. they don't know what's about to happen so they're going to assume that anyone could be a potential terrorist or violent person. i will say, brooke, i always like to look for good news in these things in a year in which you and i have been together too much. one of the good things i have heard out of this was, not only the quick response, but your recorders are recording something is that we learned out of september 11th, then later out of jof july 7th in london,
something happens -- close mass transit. you don't want to leave vulnerable soft targets open for future attacks. that's what actually happened in london. so the closing of the buses, trains and any transportation is actually a way to force people to shelter in place, and also a way to minimize a large soft target if there are other attacks planned. >> quick response. tremendous law enforcement presence. we'll be watching members of s.w.a.t. juliet, stay with me. bob baer, former cia operative, he's with us as well. bob baer, just asking you sort of the same question from a tactical perspective, when you see these -- don't know if they were s.w.a.t., law enforcement, guns drawn with three others walking toward them hands up, they -- i imagine just have to take every single precaution. you don't know hot gunman could be. >> yes, exactly. juliet had it right. what you do is you cordon off
the area. you insert s.w.a.t. teams into the situation to stop any further murder. and people come being out, you don't know whether they were the shooters or not. they have to be stopped, i.d.s looked at and probably held for a while. it's very, very confusing for the german police, situation like this, especially inside of a mall. what they don't want to happen is the gunman to get away and strike again or just get away period. so the germans are doing the right thing. but if there's multiple attacks across the city, it is all that much harder. what i can say now, they have to suspect it could be the islamic state, then they need to move as fast as they can. they do not have time to set up around the mall and do a proper assault. you'll see germans all over the city moving very quickly. they're very capable. their s.w.a.t. team gsg-9 is extraordinary. we're watching police in action. >> quickly to follow up -- bob,
you mentioned istanbul, i'm also mindful of dhaka and bangladesh. as i see some of these s.w.a.t. guys moving in, how do they try to locate these gunmen? then obviously would they try to communicate with them? >> they would try, but they're going to have to look at the casualties, whether they were trying to take hostages or trying to kill people. in bangladesh, they tried to move into the area, but they were shot at and police there didn't have the right kind of vests, the right kind of weapons. the germans will. but again, the important thing is to save lives, is to move very, very quickly to get in there, to draw off fire and to save people. in one of these situations you would be surprised how confusing
it is for the police, getting a lot of radio calls, a lot of missed cues, arresting a lot of people that have nothing to do with it. so moving in on these situations, especially if they're terrorists and they're using swarming tactics, could take all the much longer to resolve this. >> general hertling,ccording to media, six people now dead. counting all these ambulances, the germans are on it. they're prepared. >> all i can say is, i've worked with the german government multiple times, the german police, german military. they are all very, very good. i can't say it enough. they are some of the best security forces i've worked with in the world. they have some very good intelligence flow between both their federal and state officials. we had an incident few years ago when i was still commanding there of an islamic organization that was operating out of frankfurt and the sharing and information that was passed,
professionful and dutiful. their tactical approach and professionalism is apparent everywhere. the citizens of germany respect greatly the polizei and how they do business. they pass information and they act strongly and they're no-nonsense when they get into an operation. as some of the other folks have said, their s.w.a.t. teams are out. they have more than enough ambulances on the scene. they're going to overload the situation with as much public security and emergency management that they possibly can. they will quickly get this shooter. but again, munich is -- i don't know how to better say it. munich is a happy city. it is a place where people go to have fun. it is a great place to live. it is a wonderful place to vacation. so having something like this happen in munich is different than having it happen in paris or brussels. it is unexpected. it's almost like what we
experienced here in orlando when the cnn teams came down here to my new home city. this is a place where good things happen, where you go to disney world. same is true for munich. it is just terrible this kind of situation is occurring there. >> it is also bizarre, go back to 1972 and the olympics in black september and the munich massacre. this location is a stone's throw from that olympic stadium, is it not? >> it literally is. the '72 olympic venues are nearby. in fact the name of the shopping center is the olympic center shopping center roughly translated. so, yeah, many of the olympic venues are there. this is where the world got one of their first views of terrorism in 1972 when the palestinians attacked the israeli athletes. germany has a strong history of counterterrorism operations. some of it was built from that event which they received a great deal of discredit for saying they were not prepared for a terrorist attack during
those '72 olympics. so, yeah, they've countered that. they've had some very good counterterrorism elements within the police force and security forces. what i can tell looking at what's happening on the street, they are doing a very good job in swarming the scene. >> general hertling, as always, thank you so, so much. again, we are waiting to get more information. the latest we have you see on the screen. according to german media, six people are dead. who knows if that number could rise in the next few hours and how many people are injured. reports of multiple gunmen in potentially multiple parts of munich. michelle kosinski is our white house correspondent standing outside there in washington as we know the president's been briefed and made some comments on what's happened there in munich. in essence, michelle, what did president obama say? >> i mean there wasn't much to say at this point other than the u.s. is ready to offer germany whatever assistance it needs.
similar to how we've heard the white house respond in any of these incidents and there has been many recently. so the president cited the relationship, strong relationship, between u.s. and germany and that our hearts go out to the people there. but right now he's speaking at this event for community policing. he's there to talk about the violence that has happened in this country recently when he again has to respond to another international incident of what appears to be terrorism. it was also kind of striking today, while he was at a press conference with the president of mexico, and he was trying to counter some of the rhetoric that we've heard in the republican national convention over the last couple days, specifically donald trump's speech where he talked about the threat of terrorism continuing in the world, destruction and death, and the president really tried to counter that by saying basically, things aren't so bad. he was mainly talking about what's happening in america. but while he's delivering these remarks, the crowd here at the
white house, this shooting was unfolding in germany. so this is yet another event that the white house will have to respond to and likely assist with over time. it's too early to say really whether the president has made a phone call to angela merkel. it is probably too soon for that. but you can be sure that when these things happen overseas, right away top u.s. officials, mainly intelligence officials, getting in touch with their counterparts there. they're having that discussion, at least initially, to try to figure out what this is. then we'll see a continued white house response over the next couple days and weeks, brooke. >> we will look for the piece from president obama at that event. we are getting some information here from now munich police as we have been very careful to couch what this could be. munich police say the shooting, i'm quoting, looks like a terror attack. a munich police spokesperson told cnn that the olympia shopping mall shoot being looks like a terror attack. the perpetrators are still on
the loose and there are at least three attackers, they say. that from munich police. very careful in language at this early stage but looks like a terror attack. juli juliet, looks like a terror attack. >> that's right. waiting for when it is comfortable for officials to say so. i would say they have reason to believe they can get the identity relatively quickly of the perpetrators. there is plenty of pictures i've seen so far. you guys aren't airing them but they're certainly on twitter and facebook. that's where the investigation will lead. now we're at this moment that we have often been at which is that isis inspired or isis directed. that's an important distinction for germany, let alone us. isis inspired would mean that they might be german, actually germans who are radicalized. or are they refugees or others who have come over from abroad who have been trained.
that's what we will wait for the investigation. but that distinction makes it -- i know people think it is just words, it's not. there is a big difference between germany having an issue with its own citizens being radicalized, then onny bviously they have a refugees issue. there will be a big debate in germany, as there has been in britain, as there has been in france and the united states, about borders and immigration. >> you're the second person to mention refugees. obviously i have to do due diligence and say we don't know if these are refugees or not. we've been in france too many times recently for the wrong reasons, covering attacks. i was in nice as recent as seven days ago and we only learn in the past couple of days that that was premeditated, months in the making, he was inspired by isis when he then took out 84 -- murdered 84 people on that beautiful promenade along the
mediterranean. >> look, in a lot of these cases -- these are nationals of these european countries. it's easy to say it is a refugees problem, it is an immigration problem. that is a problem. right? in some of these cases. other cases, a country like germany, if it is german national, a member of france, that's why it matters. we don't desort of say everything is terrorism and we know what it means. it is why it matters, why investigations are matter, it is why whether they were these men, one, two, or three were trained abroad or if they got radicalized in germany, how did they get radicalized, who helped them. because this is a horrible day and couple weeks ago was another horrible day. we are seeing these attacks. what we have to be able to do is also learn from them because the only way we're going to minimize what's happening in europe is obviously try to stop the
motivation, who is doing it, but also train and support law enforcement and first responders in these cases. i will, like all of your other experts who have been on, so far, germany has just -- munich has seemed to have responded in the way you would want them to. an aggressive use of force, determine what's going on, close all mass transit, tell the public what is going on so their communication to the public has been sort of absolutely perfect. >> juliette, let's listen to president obama. >> -- i just wlaant to come by say thank you for being here and the extra toeordinary work that do each an every day. i was a little bit delayed. some of you are aware there were shootings in germany and we don't yet know exactly what's happening there, but obviously our hearts go out to those who
may have been injured. it's still an active situation, and germany's one of our closest allies so we are going to pledge all the support that they may need in dealing with these circumstances. it is a good reminder of something that i've said over the last couple of weeks, which is, our way of life, our freedoms, our ability to go about our business every day, raising our kids and seeing them grow up and graduate from high school and now about to leave their dad -- i'm sorry, getting a little too personal. getting a little too personal there. that depends on law enforcement. that depends on the men and women in uniform every single day who are under some of the
most adverse circumstances imaginable at times, making sure to keep us safe. and obviously, we have gone through a really tough time these last couple of weeks. on a whole bunch of fronts. most recently, i had the tough job of talking to the widows of those police officers who had been killed in baton rouge. and i know that for men and women in uniform, each loss like that is like a loss in your own family. >> all right, let's pull away. we just wanted to make sure we all heard the initial comments from president obama at this event there in washington. germany, as he mentioned, one of our closest allies, and now covering what appears to be, according to german police, a terror attack here. if you are just joining us, i'll tell you what we know -- and it is not a heck of a lot.
but according to german media, at least six people have been killed in what could turn out to be multiple locations, multiple shooter situations. the thing is they haven't caught anyone. according to eyewitnesses, three different gunmen have been described. i talked to an eyewitness a little while ago who says she saw one of the gunman dressed in black, a massive gun. again, no one's been caught. munich itself is on lockdown on this summer evening. there's been tremendously quick response from german police and beyond. stay with me. cnn's special coverage from munich -- next. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a romantic rodent. [rickie] a romantic what? [squeaking noises] i'm a sucker for proposals. and we covered it,
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what happened there at the location. then we need to identify the five persons killed. so this is a terror situation. we have terrorism. if someone used a rifle and that was the first report at the shopping center, if somebody takes a rifle in to the shopping center, and if i think about what happened in europe, so we need to assume the case. yes, rifles were mentioned when we got the emergency calls. how many police officers, forces, do you have? many, many. that's what i can say. they come from the area of muni munich, but if we have such situations, we also can have a strengthening of the forces really quickly because of the neighboring areas that we have sufficient police officers in
the city. what about the perpetrators? we believe they are three perpetrators. we have contradicting information, but up to three. they are still at large. can you tell us something about the rifles? a long weapon. that means it is longer than a pistol, so it's something like a rifle. where are you looking for these perpetrators? are you looking just for them in munich? we are really quickly, so we assume they are still in munich and we have had alerts in other areas. do you have any other information about the shooting?
these are important informations and we hope everybody will share information with us and we will have an upload portal for our criminal investigation department in order to get more information. why did you cordon off everything? it's one of our measures taken, and we want to make sure the inhabitants are secure. the police confirmed that five persons have been killed. we have information that all the clinics in munich are on alert because -- >> all right, so they're just turning that around. in essence, they just corrected to five dead, according to the police briefing in munich,
telling people as we've been reporting to avoid public places. these gunmen are at large, they say. they're saying terrorism. describing -- they're saying, listen, if you have a rifle and you are walking into a shopping center and you begin shooting innocent people, they're calling that terrorism and they are assuming the worst case scenario. up to three gunmen still at large. he was asked what did the weapon look like? he said it is longer than a pistol. and they are assuming they're still in munich. bob baer, anything jump out at you about the new information? >> well, it is the confusion that's still going on, brooke. this is an active shooting situation, and i expect the toll to go up simply because they haven't cleared that mall. it could take them hours to clear it to look for the gunmen. the question is are the gunmen waiting? do they have hostages? right now the only thing the police can do is put a lot of force on it and hope for the
best. the fact that there are three shooters i find very disturbing. suggests a coordinated attack obvious obviously. and again i go to the islamic state or al qaeda. that's simply because the germans have been warning us this week there would be more attacks. they probably picked up some chatter of some sort or even have sources inside these groups. you simply cannot protect all these malls. vulnerable targets, soft targets. and there's not much you can do when someone is assaulting them with a long gun or even a pistol. >> just reminding people, you talk about german threats. it was just as recent as monday that an afghan teenager was on that train in germany, all in the state of bavaria in the southern part of germany in the ax attack. that happened monday. flashforward to what looks like a terror attack in munich. >> interesting, german officials
says terrorism, they're using the word terrorism simply because of the weaponry used. just making clear to your viewers, there is a limited number of options and some of them are obvious. isis directed, isis inspired, and the third which german officials will either exclude or include, which is isis terror. until they exclude one group, we're going to keep them all -- we, meaning investigators, would keep all of them open. just picking up what bob said, what you are seeing in munich is lessons learned from years of, unfortunately with being of this kind of terrorism. police are going to come on strong. they are going to assume anyone to be a culprit. they're going to close all mass transit systems and munich and germany rightfully seem to be communicating very well with the population in terms of
sheltering in place and using social media. so there are sort of important aspec aspects of the response that are based on just, unfortunately, years of these kinds of attacks. >> doing the right thing and shutting down public transportation. so germany responding effectively, quickly and hopefully they're correct in that these three gunmen have not gotten too far and are still in munich. let me bring in another voice, cnn military analyst, colonel l layton, you've been listening to this given your realm of expertise and sadly given the events in europe and beyond, what do you make of this? >> well, brooke, it is obviously a big tragedy for munich and for bavaria which as general hertling pointed out is basically germany's playground. it is one of the signs of the times here, but the german
police and their group gsg-9 is very, very good at wrapping these things up and finding the perpetrators of these events. so it will take them some time. the fact this they have shut down public transportation like you mentioned is a very, very good sign. the other thing that i heard looking at some of the german media reports is that the main train station in germany has also been evacuated. now i don't know if you can confirm that independently, but it does show that they may be looking to prevent the alleged perpetrators from escaping -- >> yes, i can confirm that. that is correct. >> okay, good. so that shows you that they're basical basically sa basically sealing everything off. they're probably also sealing off access to the airports because munich has a major international airport, that they are very carefully making sure
that these perpetrators don't get very far. so i with some luck and with some determination they should be able to wrap that up and be able to make sure that they not only capture them but also prevent further attacks. that's really the biggest challenge that they have right now, preventing further attacks. >> that's right. that's right. again, five people dead according to police there in germany. they are saying they believe to be up to three gunmen, all of whom are still at large. colonel leighton, let me ask you to stand by. because much closer to home, tampa bay, florida. we know we are in that window on side of politics in which hillary clinton was set to announce her choice for vp. sadly enough, we know it was this time last week when donald trump went to announce governor mike pence and had to put that off because of the horrific events in nice. so we have some news from the clinton camp. let me turn to our senior political correspondent, brianna
keilar, who is set to cover this event there in tampa. what are you hearing about that announcement and how what's happening in munich could affect that? >> reporter: well, i've been talking to some sources who are familiar with some of the deliberations, brooke. it is a conundrum really certainly that donald trump faced last week. if you are supposed to be announcing who your running mate is going to be -- we thought that could come as soon as this afternoon via text, perhaps even before hillary clinton was supposed to be appearing here in tampa, although her first joint appearance, we believe, with her running mate would have been tomorrow in miami. the question is how do you do that, how do you balance that in the midst of an attack. now the clinton campaign looking back last week felt that the trump campaign bungled that a bit, that he showed that he didn't quite understand the significance of what was happening. now part of it, of course, is just the coincidence of all of this. but she and her aides are trying to figure out how exactly to
deal with this situation, this planned announcement in the midst of what is going on in munich. that's still really an open question at this point, brooke. but for hillary clinton, what she wants to do especially, as so many people are afraid and watching these attacks happen around the world, she wants to communicate to voters that she is the one who should be trusted to deal with this over donald trump. that is something that is really riding on how the campaign decides to handle this, brooke. >> so if you can hear me -- i know it is quite a crowd there in tampa. so do we know -- do we know? will she send a text out or that's part of your point, that that is what's still being determined as far as when we'll find out who she picks. >> yeah. we do not know. we do know that the top contender at this point appears to be virginia senator tim kaine, someone who is seen as a safe choice, who has a lot of experience, who certainly in a situation like this she can say, look be with i'm picking a steady hand. but we didn't know exactly when
that was going to be happening an we don't know exactly if they're sticking to plan. it is really up in the air at this point. >> incredible. all right, brianna keilar in tampa, thank you. i know you are keeping your ear to the ground, to the hillary clinton campaign and we'll watch and wait just like everyone else to see who she choose t chooses timing of her choice given the situation in munich. just over 9:30 at night, police in munich still trying to find at least one, potentially at many as three gunmen who opened fire on innocent civilians on a beautiful friday night. if you have medicare
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we are now just past the bottom of the hour on this friday afternoon. you're watching cnn breaking news. let's get you straight to munich in germany. we are covering what appears to be a terror attack, those words from munich police now as they have now upped the death toll in the shooting to six. six people dead, obviously that number could change as we are only in the first few hours of this event. the thing is they are saying could be up to three gunmen, all of whom are at large, trying to piece all of this together could be multiple locations. we are gating video from a mcdonald's which is a piece of this shopping center where the shooting occurred. let me just play this for you. i have to warn you, it is disturbing. and also you will see someone in a black t-shirt. we do not know if that is the shooter. roll it.
we have heard from an eyewitness who recounted a frightening scene, talking about a gunman loading his weapon, and then targeting children. cnn correspondent brian todd has spoken to this witness. brian, what did he or she tell you? >> reporter: well, brooke, a very dramatic account from this witness. it is a woman. we're only calling her loretta right now just for her safety. my producer speaks fluent german. he reached this woman by calling different stores in that area of that mall. he reached her when she was hiding in a windowless store right next door to the
mcdonald's. loretta told us this -- she was in the mcdonald's when a gunman came out after bathroom and started firing. she said she was only two centimeters away from him. she said his back was turned to her or she believes she would be dead right now. she says her 8-year-old son was in the bathroom with him and saw him loading his gun. here's a little sound from that. >> my son saw in the toilet the man loading his gun. it was a pistol. i come out of the toilet and i hear like an alarm, boom, boom, boom. he's killing the children. the children were sitting to eat. they can't run. >> reporter: nor loretta also told us she heard the man yelling allah akbar. she took her children away from the store and also took another shooting victim away from the store. clearly, brooke, was very upset with that scene.
thankful to be alive and that she and her two children both made it out of there unscathed. bun again she said her son saw the man loading a gun. it was a pistol. he was a heavy-set man wearing dark clothing and she described a little bit of what that video bore out. she describes him going out of the mcdonald's, going across the street and into that mall. according to what we saw on maps is just across the street from the mcdonald's. the mcdonald's appears to it be at least one spot where the shooting starti ininge ining st. children. sounds like from this eyewitness that the person changed clothes but definitely according to the 8-year-old, loaded the weapon and began targeting children. i was just standing next to you
in nice, paul, over the weekend, reporting on the 84 dead there, including so many children. i am sick to my stomach to hear that this terrorist was targeting kids. >> why would they want to do it, brooke? because they want to maximize the horror. they want to maximize the global media impact and as we see, an attack week after week we're seeing these attacks. they've got to do something, even more gruesome in the next attack to sort of capture the imagination and the horror of the world. we don't know yet hot perpetrators are but the germans clearly this hour think this is an ongoing terrorist attack. there's clearly a lot of concern that we could see more violence from these what sounds like three gunmen in the hours ahead, brooke. i have to tell you, this comes at a time when there were real
concerns amongst german intelligence agencies that germany was next, the next isis target. they received intelligence in the past few months indicating that isis is trying to do everything it can to recruit individuals to come back to germany to launch attacks. they're really trying to recruit. the germans have joined isis to do that. more than 800 germans have traveled to syria and iraq. many of them joining isis. more than one-third of those thought to be back already in germany. also just in the last few days, german intelligence has received indications that isis operatives inside syria and iraq have been trying to reach out to supporters directly in germany, in the west, to try and encourage them to launch attacks. as they lose ground in syria, iraq and libya, they are ratcheting up their attacks, terrorist attacks, in the west and trying to get people who are
supportive of them but not necessarily connected to them to launch these attacks. just a few days ago, monday night in southern germany, we saw a horrific ax attack by an afghan refugee who, by his own account, was inspired by isis to launch an attack on a commuter train injuring several. the energy in the jihadi system has really been rising in germany in recent months. there have been more than 1 million refugees that have come into the country and that has created some security concerns. i've been told that there's been around 30 investigations launched when it comes to refugees coming in to the country, whether it's been indications or signs of radicalization. but actually in most of those cases, the radicalization has not been substantiated. german officials tell me they really have not seen that many cases of refugees coming in that are radicalized. of course we know that isis is trying to manipulate these migrant flows to try and get
operatives back into europe. but in recent months, brooke, that's become much more difficult because that migrant corridor stretching through the balkans really has been shut down. so not clear who these people are, are they somehow connected to isis. >> i have so many more questions for you. but i need you to stay with me, paul. we've just gotten some video, this is our first look together inside the mall where apparent lapparently this shooting took place. we can all watch this together. there is a german reporter's voice obviously with his cell phone walking through the different stores. you can see glimpses of some people running. not a lot of people -- honestly,
let's just sit and watch it together. >> so clearly this reporter, as anyone would be, running out of this shopping mall where the shooting has happened. paul cruickshank, here's one of my questions as we've been covering all these different terror attacks. we are talking about this sort of sick ideology, and i don't know, wished martyrdom. the fact that these three gunmen are on the loose, then assuming not among the six dead, what does that tell you? >> well, it tells you that they're going to try an launch more attacks, if these are isis-inspired or isis-directed
islamic terrorists, they're going to want to go out, as far as they're concerned, in their twisted view, in a blaze of glory. they will believe that they are br to go to paradise. they may been in a state of real sort of ecstasy and excitement because of that. and want to launch as much carnage as possible. then maybe an opportunity in these hours for them to claim this attack for whatever terrorist group they may or may not be linked to, to try and get some kind of message over social media. these days terrorists have smartphones and they are able to get these kinds of messages out. we've even seen in one recent terrorist attack in france the perpetrator filmed the aftermath of the attack and broadcast it live over facebook. so lots of opportunities for gunmen to try and allow to terrorist group to take ownership. clearly the number one priority for german investigators now is
to figure out where they are, to trap them down before they can kill a lot more people. we've seen that these gun attacks in europe, in the united states, in recent months, that the death toll can really be truly horrific. >> as we've been pointing out before, this is actually -- where this shopping area is in the northwest part of munich. don't know how many times you've been to this part of the city, paul, but this is where that initial terror attack at the olympics in '72 took place. i mean this is called olympia mall. this is near that stadium where that happened some decades ago. and now this. so to your point, what are police, s.w.a.t., i mean everyone commented on how quick the response has been. but if you have these three gunmen wanting to carry out additional attacks and the city is on lockdown, they've shut down mass transportation, what else can law enforcement do? >> well, they've got to get
lucky. they've got to get smart fast. this is sounding a bit like a boston type of lockdown in a major western city where it is a race against time between the authorities trying to locate the perpetrators, and then more attacks perhaps being in the works. we don't know if there are perhaps other teams linked to these individuals still out there. we saw in the paris attacks there were three teams of terrorists in total, ten people in all involved in that attack. is this part of something bigger that has been launched in germany. intelligence has also suggested that isis have wanted to launch simultaneous attacks in europe, that they want to launch an attack not just in one european city but in many european cities all at the same time. in fact, the german isis recruit who was arrested on his return recently to germany provided that intelligence to the german agency.
so we'll have to see what happens next but this is a state of real emergency now in munich. german police have been training for this kind of scenario. they're very, very professional, but they will have to get lucky before there is more bloodshed. >> six people dead, that number could rise once they get into that shopping mall and clear it out. there could be up to three shooters on the loose. paul crookshank, invaluable perspective from you. thank you so much. quick break and we'll be back on more munich breaking news after this.
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all right, six people are dead here in munich, germany. up to three gunman on the loose. we just got some video into cnn. you will hear a verbal altercation between people -- on the roof of what appears to be some sort of parking garage near the shopping mall where the shooting took place. we don't know if these people witnessed the shooting, or the man walking around on the parking deck across the street is. what we know is one person off camera shouts until german "he has a loaded gun".
>> all right, so i have colonel laiden. >> in this case, it sounded like a typical dispute between people in munich. they tend to be very vocal with things when they don't like what is going on. that is what it sounded like, but it is strange because it doesn't conform to some of the other witness testimony that we have heard of people shouting akbar and things leek that. if he has a weapon, he may have been involved in this, and that is something they will have to examine. >> to your point about the other eyewitness account, we talked a moment ago to our colleague brian todd and his producer was
able to speak to a woman with an 8-year-old son. the son was in the mcdonald's bathroom, and saw one of the gunman suiting up and loading up the gun before he walked out. and the most chilling bit of all of this to me, that gives me a pit in my stomach, this gunman was targeting children. you heard paul crookshank when i was asking why. the point here, maximizing casualties and horror. >> exactly. i agree with paul that it is definitely maximizing horror and i think it is an effort by whoever perpetrated this to kill as many children as possible. if they're related, then you see the effect. you have ten children killed nice. we don't know how many were possibly killed here in munich. this is one of the worst things and in one of the previous video
segmen segments, it was telling when the german reporter said it is a scene of unbelievable cold-bloodedness. that is exactly what we see here in munich tonight. >> i don't know where we are in this room, here in 2016, that we're reporting terrorists targeting children, and the death toll could rise as it does often times until the early hours of this terror attack. describing what could be a long gun, up to three different shooters and they don't know where they are. to me, colonel, that is extraordinarily frightening. >> yeah, the fact that they don't know where they are. they were not able to corner them, it is troubling and it is clearly the reason that munich is on lock down tonight, and the police will spare no effort, no expense, trying to find these
perpetrators. >> i have you for 60 more seconds. can you speak to the response from the germans, the efficiency, the tremendous effort, it seems, there on the ground? >> yes, the germans are extremely efficient when it comes to their police forces, military forces, and anti-terror forces. they have done a terrific job since the 1992 munich olympics. a lot of it was incorporated into military training and they're among the best in the world along with the united states when it comes to anti-terror operations. very efficient, very good. one of the things that showed up earlier is they had a central command post on scene and it shows they're very well
organized and they have practiced this a lot >> thank you so much and thank you for your german as well. i appreciate it. very very much. i'm brook baldwin here in new york. we are continuing our special coverage now on "the lead" with jake tapper, starting now. this is cnn breaking news. >> welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the globe. i'm jake tapper. this is "the lead" today. we begin with bad breaking news. an all-out full speed man hunt going on right now after yet another deadly shooting rampage at a shopping mall in munich germany. six innocent people were shot and killed and others were injured. we have video. this video is disturbing. if y