discussing donald trump's immigration plan and his speech and his meeting with the mexican president today. my entire panel is back. and joining me is a member of the congressional hispanic caucus. congressman, thank you for staying up late and for joining us this evening. you heard our panel here talking, mark preston brought up a point saying there's no way congress will appropriate that much money to build a wall, especially when we're $22 trillion in debt.

>> the debt and the demands on the federal budget to make some real investments in this country are going to be part of what this next congress has to deal with. i think that, you know, this whole enforcement only, this kind of fantasy symbolism of we're going to build this great wall across the whole southern border, it's just that. i thought very telling was the meeting with the president of mexico, nieto. i thought the president looked kind of weak, he was more of a stage prop for trump. at the end of the day when he was giving his speech, he said they're going to pay for it and we're going to build it. so the whole point of that trip was to stage something that made trump look better. i thought that was really sad and cynical to watch. yet, pena nieto walked right into it, and the consequences

are getting worse and worse for it. >> why don't you think the president of mexico, why do you think he didn't call donald trump out and instead tweeting -- >> exactly. then we're left to who is telling the truth kind of question and the scenario we're facing here with trump and to some extent the president of mexico, how do you guess? i think that the citizens of mexico are asking for a direct apology, and they wanted to see that publicly, and a declarative statement from trump, we're not paying for the wall. neither of those happened publicly, so we're left to conjecture. so do you believe trump or the president of mexico kind of scenario. >> you're in arizona, you represent a constituency who says they have issues when it comes to illegal immigration. you're at the forefront of it. having heard this speech this evening, what did you think of it? do you think he won latino/hispanic voters over,

people who may be on the fence about voting for donald trump? >> no, not at all. there was some tease, some expectation that donald trump was going to give a speech today of policy, of great magnitude around the issue of immigration reform. all he did is he doubled down. the ten-point plan was a lot of generalities and enforcement only, a process of deportation, expedited in some areas, self-deportation in others, including dreamers. there was no -- there was no effort to walk it back, moderate it. this was doubling down on the issue that has been the raw meat in his campaign, immigration reform. particularly along the southern border and mexicans. and there's no -- nothing changed. i don't think because there's no change, there's no shift in where the perception of latino voters are.

we see it's a civil rights issue. the issue of racism, the undertone to this discussion, and trump made that the big part of it. and for a second, third, first generation latinos in this country who are going to be voting, the racial profiling that occurred with $50 million worth of claims, where citizens were racially profiled in his effort to enforce the bad immigration law that this state passed, that was to many in the latino community, it is immigration issue and the families that need to come out of the shadows effectively and the issue of civil rights and the broad brush that donald trump has painted on a whole community. >> so he's saying that the wall is fantasy. this is according to him. he says there was a lack of substance here, and it appears to me, and correct me if i'm wrong, congressman, that the trump campaign or trump is tone

deaf when it comes to dealing with minorities, especially with african-americans and now with latinos, especially on this issue of immigration. do you agree with that? >> yes, i do. i think it's not only tone deaf but cynical. >> let corey respond. >> with all due respect, illegal immigration has been a systemic problem in arizona, no question about it. a number of the municipalities have gone bankrupt because they have no way to fund and take care of the illegal immigrants coming into the country and taking away resources from americans. they're not paying taxes, they're taking money illegally and sending it back to mexico. what donald trump has talked about, to pay for that wall, we're going to monitor that money and take a piece of that so they're not able to do that. furthermore, we know if one illegal comes across the border, and it's kate steinle or anybody

else that's killed, there should be repercussions. i don't know what the value is, the dollar value, but what i can tell you, if the wall cost $20 million and it saves one american life, it's a worthwhile investment. >> congressman? >> there's no price to a life. but with this whole discussion is realism. arizona, i represent that southern border in my congressional district. there's a history here. we can't ignore the history. and to shamelessly say that it is -- that's part of the criminalization that occurred with trump's speech today, that's part of the demonizing of immigrants in general that he did today and mexican immigrants in particular. you know, that's all -- it's -- it's not based in fact. it is exaggerated comments that are made constantly on this issue. and arizona we passed the toughest law and the supreme court declared three quarters of it unconstitutional.

>> i'm sure the congressman is in favor of taking convicted felons and sending them back to their native countries, aren't you, congressman? >> yeah, as president obama has been doing. that is the priority for i.c.e., to those convicted, those that are in the country to do harm and not good, and they're not here -- nobody disagrees with that. and that's been the policy of obama. >> the disappointing part, congressman, is that the individual who killed kate steinle had been deported four times before he came to the country and arbitrarily killed a beautiful girl for no reason whatsoever. this person was arrested and deported four times and came back in. if there was a wall or tougher ways to get back in the country, kate would be alive today. >> the empathy -- there's no lack of empathy for that tragedy on my part or anybody else's part. but as i said earlier to you,

there's a realism, too, that when you talk about building a wall, $24 billion, $9 billion, whatever number you want, and the reality is that it's not going to happen, it's not going to happen because the same people that scream loudly about having to control our borders and enforcement only will be the first ones to say imminent domain, you can't use my property, on and on and on it's going to happen. so to create this fantasy for the american people that this panacea of a wall is going to solve all the problems, including the tragedies that occurred, and they're awful, including everybody is going to be making $15 an hour and working well, that that's all going to happen because donald trump is building a wall i think we're underestimating a, the intelligence of the american people, and b, the reality that we're living in this country. i think that's what is so cynical and offensive about it. >> congressman, thank you very much.

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we're back now with my

panel. kirsten, i want you, then corey, to weigh in on what the congressman said. there is no lack of sympathy for victims like kate steinle. but there's also the reality of getting all of these things done, not the least of which is funding and money. >> right. we have to remember that these are tragedies. they're also outlier cases. this is not the norm. the norm is not that an illegal immigrant is murdering innocent people. the crime rate among illegal immigrants is actually quite low. and so by focusing on these heartbreaking cases and trying to extrapolate out from that and say oh, my gosh, we have to get rid of all these illegal immigrants, i don't think that's fair. i think when you talk about people who have been detained and then let go and commit a

crime, that kind of stuff also happens with american citizens, and there are tragedies, as well. so in those cases, yes, we want them to do a better job if there's somebody that they have who has engaged in criminal activity, and we don't want them letting them back out into society, anymore than if that was a legal citizen. >> do you think that the people donald trump is trying to reach the people he needs, are they going to see this as politicizing these families? >> i think donald trump's supporters like this, and i do think that for other people, you know, i'm not sure that a lot of people necessarily know what i just said, the statistics in terms of violent crimes, in terms of undocumented immigrants. you know, i don't know if people necessarily know that. so it could be a fear tactic that works on people if they think this is a real problem that's facing the country. >> corey? >> i don't know what the statistics are, but jameel shaw,

his son was coming home from a high school football camp. he had just been accepted to stanford to go and play football. he lives in san francisco. in los angeles, excuse me. and the day an illegal/undocumented individual was released from prison, he drove by and shot jameel shaw, jr. in the face three times. the person was in a prison, was released that day, was a member of a gang. and in order to initiate that they were still part of that gang, he went and killed somebody for no reason. that person should have immediately been deported. one crime is one crime too many. if you want to meet with the shaw family or the other families i've met with, it is egregious that they've not been immediately deported if they've committed a crime. >> i do think if somebody has committed a violent crime and they're an illegal immigrant, you're not going to get any disagreement out of me. but like i just said, the story

you just told, you could find somebody to tell you that story that's happened with an american citizen that got out of jail and committed a crime. that's a tragedy. but why are you trying to make it seem like this is a pervasive problem in our society when it isn't. >> it is a problem. >> you said the statistics don't matter to you, but they should. >> killing lives matter to me. >> and that's my question, the facts do matter. everyone with a caveat that there is sympathy for these families. how could one not sympathize. but the facts do matter about the crime numbers and whether or not this is a huge problem. >> i think -- and i love corey for doing it, because he's actually manipulating this, and spinning it. but my heart aches for shaw family and the steinle family and everyone who has lost a loved one just unnecessarily through gun violence or any other violence in this country. but every illegal immigrant is

not someone just maniacally murdering and committing these people. we keep going back to the numbers. the raw numbers don't bear it out. if i give you credit and say that donald trump on day one deports all the criminals that does not fix our immigration problem. donald trump would have a more successful campaign if he does not bastardize other minority groups. in donald trump's speech today, i was talking off air with mark about this. he went through and said, you know, i love the mexican people. we talked about the mexican-americans who have contributed to our society. but he has yet to give one singular example, one example of a mexican-american or an immigrant who has done something positive in this country. he had the opportunity at the speech, he had the opportunity at the rnc and tonight and he refused to do that. >> corey, would you like to respond to that? >> again, i think what he's said is he's asking for a better

america for everybody, so that every african-american, every hispanic-american has the best opportunities in front of them, and as the president of the united states, that's the opportunities that he wants to create. >> gloria, you get the first word on the other side of the break. >> okay. it's a whole different subject i want to raise any ways. >> gloria, mark, and more from kirsten and everyone else from the panel right after this. don't go anywhere.

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back now with my panel. i think we've made a very good point in a commercial break. we forget this is politics. gloria, i know you want to weigh in tonight. >> what trump did was two things i don't think you could put together in the speech, he did not get specific on the mass deportation. some will say that's a flip-flop, because he didn't. where was this sort of mass deportation? he talked about it, he said in several years we'll get around

to it. i'm still not sure what he meant by that. on the other hand, he gave a speech that was tougher than i've heard, and, you know, in a way that i think will drive away hispanic voters. so he did two things. you know, he didn't get specific on the big issue of mass deportation, but he gave a tough speech. so he sort of threaded the needle that way in a way i didn't think he was going to do it. how effective it is to broaden his base, i have no idea, but it's politics. >> to mark's point, which we were talking about also during the speech, is that having the families of people who have been killed by undocumented immigrants on stage is really no different than having mothers of the movement at the democratic convention. >> the mothers of the movement are mothers who lost their children to gun violence. the bottom line is, politics are dirty, we know that. these people are pawns used by

both sides, the republicans and democrats. but they're choosing to be there. the folks on that stage there weren't forced to be there. mothers of the movement are not forced to be there. politics is dirty. by definition, it's -- i guess i could say by definition being a politician is being a liar, but i would get in trouble for saying that. >> but you just said it. >> but i just said it. what i would say is politics is something we embrace here in the united states, and it is part of our democracy, but it's not clean, and both sides engage in the same tactics and we're seeing that. >> the president of mexico was playing politics, too. >> and he lost. >> and he's not a good player of politics. >> kirsten, is there a difference between the families tonight and the families at the democratic convention? >> i think the difference is the way hillary clinton talks about police officers versus the way donald trump talks about illegal immigrants. look, at least at the democratic national convention, they did have some police officers who

spoke, as well. so it wasn't just about the families. and hillary clinton has not railed against police officers in the way that donald trump has talked about illegal immigrants. we all know the things he has said, talking about them being rapists and murderers and things like that. so i don't see it as being the same thing. i think if he had just shown those families, without all the demagoguery he does around illegal immigrants, it would be different. but hillary clinton has spoken about the fact that we need to respect police officers and she's recognized the fact that african-americans don't always feel safe with law enforcement. >> we're going to talk about all that next hour. we'll hear more from donald trump tonight in his speech in arizona on immigration and hear more from him in mexico today with mexico's president. we'll be right back. energy is a complex challenge. people want power. and power plants account for more than a third of energy-related carbon emissions.

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this is cnn breaking news. it is the top of the hour. breaking news, donald trump making his big speech on immigration in phoenix tonight hours after meeting with mexico's president. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. thank you so much for joining us. donald trump saying this in his speech. >> we will break the cycle of amnesty and illegal immigration. we will break the cycle. there will be no amnesty.

>> that comes after this bombshell statement from the candidate about meeting with president enrique pena nieto. >> we did discuss the wall. we didn't discuss payment of the wall. that will be at a later date. >> the mexican president stating i made clear that mexico will not pay for the wall. then there is hillary clinton, she tweets tonight that trump failed his first foreign test. diplomacy isn't as easy as it looks. i want to bring in now the man who has seen it all, dan rather, the host of the big interview on access tv. you have seen it all. ten point plan that he talked about tonight, you know, is he changing his language on immigration over the past couple of weeks that has been discussed?

do you think he cleared up anything for anybody this evening. >> i don't think he cleared up anything. i think he did revert to his base. he reverted to his basic speech that won him the nomination. he is going back to the base camp if you will. for a lot of people, this would have been an outrageous speech, but it was a powerful speech. it was a powerful speech not only for his base. i've heard several people, including my friend david axlerod saying it solidified his base. but he didn't hear anything that might help him with swing voters, independent voters. i would gently disagree with that. i think the speech may have resonated very well with a lot of people who maybe lean a little bit in trump's direction but haven't made up their mind. i do think that is what his game is now. his game is to make sure he holds his base solid. he has to have a tremendous turn out among white voters, particularly white men and a higher percentage of the turnout. he is trying to appeal to the

middle. what he decided is, look, i'm trying to appeal for african-american votes or latino votes. latinos have said to him, in the mortal words of arnold schwarzenegger. hasta la vista, baby. we're not voting for you. he understands that. he's saying some things that need to be said, that's sort of cliche. i think it is helping him some and we have seen that reflect in the polls. hillary clinton has been inching backwards and he is inching forward. >> i think your assessment is right on as i do agree with you most of the time here. it is different from than sitting in a green room or television set. or if your office watching it. when you're at home with your family and your children, what he said tonight may have been very effective to people who may not, who may not be decided in this election. >> i think it is important to say that these are not bad people. there is a tendency with those

people who find donald trump abhorrent to think all of this followers in the crowd, they're cooky or nutty people. that's not the case. there are a lot of good, decent, ordinary people who lean towards donald trump. >> the question about it has been, there is a question about this so called deportation force. what to do with illegal immigrants who are here now. he discussed that. let's listen. >> anyone who illegally crosses the border will be detained until they are removed out of our country and back to the country from which they came. and they will be brought great distances. we're not dropping them right across. they learned that. president eisenhower. they drop them right across and they come right back and across. when they flew them to a long distance, all of a sudden that

was the end. we will take them great distances but we will take them to the question where they came from. >> he spoke more specifically in terms of the deportation force. this is about catch and release. is this a softening on this issue or right in line with what he has been saying? >> right in line with what he has been saying all along. there may have been a difference in what he was saying before but this is his basic message since he announced june a year ago. recognize, don, a lot of people see trump, in their view, a sun powered all american bull shine machine. when he talks about this, the argument that is not practical to say we're going to round up 11 million people, however big the number is and ship them back to the countries it still resonates in a way with a lot of people who say listen, i've had it up to here with immigration. he doubled down on his bet that immigration is enough to carry

him into the white house and i think he will ride that horse right on through. >> and here is the one with him talking about what to do the illegal immigrants that are already here. listen. >> for those here illegally today who are seeking legal status, they will have one route and one route only. to return home and apply for reentry like everybody else under the rules of the new legal immigration system that i have outlined above. those who have left to seek entry -- thank you. [ chanting ] thank you. those who have left to seek entry under this new system, and it will be an efficient system, will not be awarded surplus

visas but will have to apply for entry under the immigration caps or limits that will be established in the future. we will break the cycle of amnesty and illegal immigration. we will break the cycle. there will be no amnesty. >> that was a concern earlier in the week when, you know, people were saying and late last week when people were saying he is flip-flopping on amnesty. it looks like what he is saying now is leading to a path of citizenship through no uncertain terms he said no amnesty. >> couldn't be any misunderstanding on what he is saying. i do think he flirted with the idea of sort of softening up a little bit and tried out a few lines but he has come back to his core belief that the way for him to win is to get an overwhelming amount of white people to the polls and

overwhelming amount for him. he thinks that is enough to win. >> so i think that many people underestimate the power and maybe, and i'm going to ask if you think the clinton campaign is underestimating the power of the narrative and optics and being in front of the media and in front of the cameras. if we can show donald trump with the president today in mexico, a moment that was viewed by many as very presidential because the concern was there is a handshake, the concern was, he is not seen as presidential which is one reason why he went over there. this puts him in the spotlight. hillary clinton is not doing that. you think that's a misstep on her part? >> i wouldn't say a misstep on her part. it is a smart move for him to be seen meeting with another country's president and by the way, donald trump is a master of the optics. he rarely appears without a bevy of american flags behind him wherever he goes and that worked pretty well for richard nixon in 1968.

he won partly because he just convinced people, i'm here, i'm part of the flag, i'm part of patriotism of the country. everybody has underestimated donald trump from the very beginning and i think the tendency is to underestimate him. i said to you before, i'm not saying he's going to win, but if you had to bet the trailer money, if you had to bet the double wide today, you would bet that hillary wins. there are 68 days to go. three presidential debates to go. this is still a very volatile race. because neither of these candidates is very popular. both of them have negatives over 50%, unprecedented in the presidential history. in that environment and with the kind of toxic speech, they used chauvaunism, nativism, these can be powerful undertows on people

who otherwise not consider him as president. >> i think it is always a misstep to underestimate your opponent and, you know, as you said, people are thinking, oh, this is over the poll. the polls are tightening now and there are still a number of days before people actually go to the polling and vote. early voting is going to start but you don't know, no one knows where this is going to end up. >> and mentioning, when people go to the polls, by the way, early voting starts in some places end of september. i think a lot of people don't realize that. but it is still true with american elections that most people go to the polls on voting day and the majority of people don't finally make up their minds until at least the weekend before the tuesday vote. >> always a pleasure. >> my pleasure. >> thank you very much. >> good to see you. >> dan rather, everyone. we'll be right back. "hey! you get that memo too?"

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donald trump laying out his immigration plan in a speech in phoenix. now, our cnn reality check team takes a look. here is tom foreman. what do you have for us? >> the central theme of all of this, a big theme, was that among all of the undocumented people in this country, there

are a lot of dangerous criminals. >> there are at least 2 million. 2 million, think of it, criminal aliens now inside of our country. we will begin moving them out, day one, as soon as i take office, day one. >> 2 million. that is a whopping number, but analysts say to get to that number of criminals among this population, you basically have to count every possible infraction including traffic tickets. maybe it is more realistic to look at it from the migration institute. 1.4 million people on the priority list for apprehension for more serious offenses or maybe you should even look at this number. 690,000 convicted of felonies or serious misdemeanors. that is another estimate that is out there. that seems credible in all of this. still, a big number but only about a third of what trump says. nonetheless, he wants to go

after them. he wants a task force to really crack down on this population outs there. the problem is one started just a year ago under the immigration office there. priority enforcement program, that is what they call it, and it is aimed at getting the worst criminals off of the street. it is a big job. maybe he will make it better. maybe he will put more agents out there as he promised. maybe he will do that on day one in terms of getting started. we can't say otherwise that that part of the claim is true but to the extent that none of this is going to produce immediate results, it simply can't. it is too big of a job. it is also misleading. trump went after hillary clinton and what she has said about immigration. listen. >> the plan will provide obamacare, social security, and medicare for illegal immigrants breaking the federal budget. >> it is true that hillary clinton has said that she thinks that people who are here in an undocumented status should be

able to buy into obamacare because she thinks it will spread the risk pool. it will keep them out of emergency rooms. she thinks it makes fiscal sense. as for the other two here. social security and medicare, those are more programs that fall under her general plan to allow these people to move into a legal status, to become full citizens. she doesn't want to do those as ad hoc add on. at least she doesn't appear to. the first is true. the second part is false. as always, find out more about the reality checks on the whole campaign at cnn.com/realitycheck. >> mr. tom foreman, always a pleasure. thank you. let's discuss all of this. bacari sellars is here. maria cardona joins the panel. matt joins us panel. and former donald trump campaign manager corey lewandowski is back.

kirsten powers is back as well. i'll start with you. two million criminal aliens or undocumented immigrants. he said it was misleading. you have to take into account a number of different factors. also talked about obamacare. let's talk about the first part of that fact check. go ahead. what did you make of that? >> there is a big difference between 2 million and 690,000. and also the 690,000 includes misdemeanors and felonies. and then we have to remember that, i actually think we would take misdemeanor out of that probably if we're going to talk about serious, violent crimes. even with felonies, a lot of felonies aren't violent crimes. you can be charged with a felony for selling a small amount of drugs for example, that can be your first time offense and you can end up being deported perhaps after living in this country for most of your life. this is, you know, i think is this a pretty big, a whopper, because it is going to be a lot fewer than 690,000. he said it was 2 million. >> a whopper, corey, do you agree? she says there is a big

difference between 2 million and 690,000. these aren't necessarily violent crimes -- >> we don't know that. we know they're convicted felons or have done a serious misdemeanor is what it said so we don't know what the level of that is. but what we do know first and foremost, they were in the country illegally. the first crime is coming in illegally. that is crime number one. crime two is potentially selling drugs, killing americans or doing something else that you're not supposed to do in this country. why do we need to give them three strikes. they've come in illegally, committed another crime. is between 690,000 of our own numbers to 1.4 million at minimum we know about. that is under the supposition that there are 11 million undocumented/illegal immigrants. if you look at what hillary clinton's campaign said today, they think there's 16 million people. we don't know within 5 million people are in the country illegally. >> when you say they came into the country illegally. a lot of people came into the country as children with their parents and so you're talking about somebody who could potentially have been living here and in fact, i think donald trump maybe even talked about

this. i have this memory of hearing about all of this humane treatment we're going to have. this humane immigration policy. his surrogates were coming out and talking about this and donald trump, i believe, also said he didn't believe the families had been here for a long time. they shouldn't be broken up. it seems like you're disagreeing with that. if you come into the country at 4 years old and you're 18 years old or 25 years old and you're charged with a misdemeanor, that you should be sent back to a country that you literally can't remember. i mean -- >> what i'm saying is -- >> let him -- >> the clinton campaign put out a press release that says there were 16 million undocumented workers/illegal immigrants in the country. this is the clinton campaign, not the trump campaign. everyone assumes there are 11 million. the clinton campaign saying there are 16 million. donald trump says there are 2 million people we need to ship out of the country. that's based on the 16 million numb they are the clinton campaign has. are we going with the clinton campaign numbers with the 16 million or this hyperbole of

the 11 million. be there's 5 million people we're missing somewhere. >> i hear you, corey. even if you deport all of the criminals on day one, you still don't have a plan. donald trump still is not extremely clear on what he is going to do with the other 10 million or 12 million individuals who are here quote, unquote illegally. more concerns to kirsten's point is something he said in number five. i mentioned this earlier tonight. i hope we get a chance delve into this. he wants them to self deport. this is the country they know. they don't have another country to self deport to. they go to college here, they're friends of mine. they work here. you literally are talking bg people who i know, friends of mine, who now have to self deport? >> i get the campaigns mixed up. it is a long season but somebody was laughed off the stage with self deport. do you remember that? >> mitt romney. >> and i think he lost the election pretty handily.

i haven't been on this panel so i haven't been able to comment. >> this is your chance. >> as an immigrant myself, this speech sickened me. it turned my stomach. it was nativist, nationalistic, offensive, and i think it was a big step in donald trump losing this election. why do i say that? we already know that all of these efforts talking about immigration, the softening, clearly not a softening tonight, there was no effort to gain more hispanic votes. we know that that train has left the station and trump ain't on it. latinos are not going to vote for trump. it is an effort, i think, or at least some people wanted it to be, to try to gather more support from moderate republicans, college educated white voters, which he is now losing. this speech did nothing to increase that number of support to try to appeal to a broader base. if he doesn't do that, there is no credible path to 270. >> i think this speech also, i

think what donald trump is going to do, if we take a step back and look at this speech as part of this campaign and even from when you started, corey, to now where you have where you have steve bannon and others running this race, i think what donald trump's methodology is is trying to see whether that obama coalition is in tact and he is pressuring hillary clinton and putting the pressure on hillary clinton to make sure that she keeps the obama coalition in tact. he is going squeeze every single white male vote out of the electorate he possibly can. and the question is, and i think he is awakening a sleeping giant when he is talking about immigrants and african-americans and others. the question is, are african-american voters or hispanic voters, going to show up to the polls? they don't have to be larger than in '08 and '12. >> there has been a lot of talk tonight. we need to level this and talk about what happened with the president i served.

one of the jobs i had in 2004 is i had to explain to the activists in the party at our convention what his plan was. his plan was every person who was here illegally, every single one, this moderate on immigration, had to go back to their country of origin before they could be considered for any type of legal status. and everybody said he had a reasonable approach to immigration. if you look at what donald trump said tonight it is different words, different tone. i give you all of that. i'm not going to compare the two. when you look at the policy. if we can get beyond -- but you can't. >> let me finish. i listened for a long time. >> we'll be respectful, though. >> you will be, too. when you look at the policy underneath it, it is a very similar policy which everybody needs to go home in order to apply. second thing is. we've had a lot of talk about the wall. hillary clinton voted for the wall and said i support building

a fence, whether it is a fence, whether it is a wall, whether it is a barrier, for people to say, i love you, but for people to say this is racist, when this is policies that democrats have supported and democrats have voted for, let's look at the policy underneath. don't shake your head when it's true. it is totally true. >> but it is also the language around it as well. >> no, no, no. listen, i hear you, right? but you can't compare george w. bush and the language that he used to that of donald trump and say oh, my god, and then say oh, my god, disregard it. >> look at the policies. >> we're talking about somebody said that mexicans were rapists. we're talking about somebody who's out reach consisted of a taco bowl. speaker paul ryan says use the text book version of racism -- of racism when you talk about judge curiel. you can't say let's take the bigotry out of the recipe. >> try to get to the policy. that's what the american voter needs to hear about.

>> you're a policy wonk, as well. so please, after this speech today, tell me how donald trump, if we're going to get to the policy, is going to pay for the wall. >> how is he going to pay for the wall? >> that's right. >> how do we pay for the wall that hillary clinton voted for? >> answer the question. how is he going to pay for the wall? >> congress appropriates the money. congress has froep -- appropriated millions and millions and congress will have to step forward. >> mexico is not going to pay for this wall essentially is what you're saying. >> i know you have a lot of fun with. that the fact is illegally -- >> we didn't say it. >> illegal immigration is a huge cost in our economy in our country. if we can get a handle on illegal immigration and take care of the costs to our society, we'll more than pay for the wall. if you look at all of the costs associated with the crime and the negative impacts on our economy, you know that that is what the economic consequences are. >> can we talk about the economy about this for a minute? >> on the other side of this break. we'll be right back.

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donald trump doing away with any suggestion he is softening his stance on immigration. his fiery speech in phoenix revving up his base. the clinton campaign not holding back. calling trump's speech his darkest yet. we look at how hillary clinton responds. and a hurricane for the florida panhandle and the path is shifting slightly. could this storm wreck the holiday for