tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN November 29, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PST
donald trump filling out his cabinet tonight but is he leaving mitt romney hanging? i'm don lemon. no decision despite the dinner tonight with romney. with the clock ticking is romney still in the running and a dramatic day in the trial of michael schrager, the white police officer charged with the murder and shooting death of walter scott, a black driver.
we'll discuss all of that. we'll go to executive editor mark preston and cnn political analyst keertsen power. mark getting late-breaking information now. mark, let's talk about this. you've been talking to your sources and first i want to put up these tweets. this is about trump, talking about carrier air conditioning. reached a deal to keep about 1,000 jobs in indiana, and he says this. i will be going to indiana on thursday to make a major announcement concerning carrier ac staying in indianapolis. great deal for workers. and then he says big day on thursday for indiana and the great workers of that wonderful state. we will keep our companies and jobs in the u.s., thanks, carrier. what do you make of this? >> big victory for donald trump. he said he was going to do this. we should clarify that carrier said today it's about 11,000 jobs. 2,100 jobs in two factories that they were closing out there, but still the fact of the matter is, even if he's able to save half of those jobs, that's more than -- than carrier was going
to keep anyway. they were going to move their operations down to mexico. i'm also told that on thursday they are going to blow this up. they are really -- donald trump and mike pence are going to make a very big deal about this. we're focused so much on rally he'll be doing in cincinnati, and i really do think that this moment in indiana is going to be important, you know, even before he's sworn into office. >> kirsten, a big campaign promise. what do you think? >> i think it's great and the kind of thing that people want to seat president doing. democrats talk about this a lot, but you can ask the question of why isn't president obama picked up the phone and called people and tried, to you know, really get in the middle of it, and the other part of it is trump himself has companies that make things overseas and so it does raise the question if you're going to pressure other people to do this, why don't you make sure it's being down with trump businesses as well. >> people would like to see this other than some. erratic things he says on twitter and so on >> you think? >> the last 48 hours. >> one thing we haven't seen -- >> more of this president-elect and less of the other. >> we haven't seen the details
of the deal that was struck between this new incoming administration and united technologies which is the carrier parent company but we do know that is that u.t. has $5.6 billion worth of business before the american government. they are a big defense contractor, so, you know, you have wonder if donald trump went to them and said we're going to start pulling contracts. that's a lot of money. >> let's talk about now this meeting, this dinner i should say with donald trump and with mitt romney and reince priebus. very public. what's this very public meal all about? >> you know, i don't know. jim acosta was sitting very close to them. you know, what's interesting about them and i've talked to people who have since, you know, been briefed on this and have been discussed. apparently it couldn't have gone any better. they really got along very well. things went very well, and at this point right now i think what we're looking at is donald trump looking at two people right now for secretary of state. mitt romney and david petraeus.
we saw petraeus there yesterday and donald trump said some very nice things about him but mitt romney i think is really somebody if donald trump were to make him his secretary of state would really turn a lot of heads. >> okay. we'll talk about petraeus and the other guys in a moment. this is what mitt romney said after that meeting. listen to him. >> i've had a wonderful evening with president-elect trump. we had another discussion about affairs throughout the world, and these discussions i've had with him have been enlightening and interesting and engaging. i've enjoyed them very, very much. i was also very impressed by the remarks he made on his victory night. by the way, it's not easy winning. i know that myself. he did something i tried to do and was unsuccessful in accomplishing. he won the general election, and -- and he continues with a message of inclusion and bringing people together, and his vision is something which obviously connected with the american people in a very
powerful way. >> was that more than the high road or beyond the high road? >> put that in context and perspective. there will h been a lot of talk within the trump campaign that mitt romney had to come out and apologize and mitt romney as we discussed over and over, very critical and the most critical republican we've seen of donald trump. that was very close to an apology. it wasn't quite an apology, but it was something that i think was, you know, certainly not totally expected from mitt romney but in addition to that, we're talking about a dommy in effect for these cabinet spots and i'm told by a transition source that general -- the former retired marine corps general john kelly is now breaking into the lead to perhaps become the new head of the department of homeland security. there had been a lot of talk rude rude might go over there but i'm now told john kell whole headed up southern command and actually oversaw guantanamo and is supportive of keeping guantanamo open is now breaking into the lead. apparently he's got trump's eye.
>> john kelly for homeland security. >> yeah. >> let's talk about this. so he's meeting with general petraeus which you mentioned, mark, with bob corker, chairman of the senate foreign relations commit, and let's not forget rude rude. >> right. >> are you getting -- are we getting a sense of who donald trump wants for his campaign -- wants for secretary of state versus what his team, his transition team might want? >> well, i mean, it's interesting. you had to sort of narrow down not to ride, but when i was talking to trump loyalists, they are saying ruledy is still the lead so i think you have people in the campaign, you know, sort of loyalists, the kellyanne conway types still pushing for ride, but the fact that he had dinner with, you know, mitt romney i think suggests that things are moving hey long, and that there seems to be reason interest there, and, you know, i get the question for mitt romney is what happened. he was a phony and fraud and all these other things hand now we see him here. where's the explanation. all it takes is to win and then all -- none of this is true
anymore? mean, it -- i don't know if he's going to address that at some point. >> that's a question i would ask. >> winning changes everything, everything you said? >> that's a little bit curious, and his reputation is sort of on the line here. i think a lot of people said he was showing hey lost integrity during the campaign. >> wondering about the anti-wall street message, the populist that he ran on because we've learned that he's tapping former goldman sachs partner steve enchin and billionaire investor wilbur ross and what does that do to that populist anti-wall street. >> and elaine chao undermines it and getting insider washington types but i don't think his supportlers care at this point. i think he has a lot of goodwill with his supporters. >> yeah, and there's something to be said that past administrations, including the obama administration, also dipped into wall street and hired wall street executives to become the treasury secretary. i mean in, some ways you almost have to go to wall street to -- to find somebody who is well
versioned in how to run the world economy. i mean, these are folks doing it on the private level. trying to put them into a public position question about enchin is he has a little of controversial and his company has been charged with fraud, not saying he did it and his company has been accused of housing discrimination. again, there's enough votes in the senate to get anybody through if you're a republican. >> you mentioned elaine chao for transportation and congressman dr. tom price for health health and big opponent of obamacare. what's your take on that? >> you can say that about any republican but he's been putting forth alternatives to obamacare and has been front and center on the issue, so i think it shoes he's serious about repealing obamacare, not particularly surprising, been one of the number one issues for republicans, and soy would expect him to move pretty quickly ton. >> tom price said he wanted to
privatize medicare. >> democrats are sort of salivating at that because this is something that donald trump sort of broke with the republican party under during the election and probably reaped benefits with older white voters and, you know, probably wouldn't like the idea of privatization. >> as we're sitting here talking, i've received another desk, john kelly, this retired marine general, is going to be a trump tower again tomorrow y.this is important, a lot of people say it's department of homeland security, secretary of state, been focusing so much on that. this is the border, donald trump's whole discussion about trying to keep illegal aliens from coming in, illegal immigrants, whatever we're going to describe them as coming across the border this. would be one of his top jobs and stopping terror here in the u.s. a very, very big john. >> john kell de, do we know his record in. >> critical of the obama administration about closing guantanamo bay. he wanted to keep it open, even though when he was in charge of southern command he was going to
be tasked with actually closing something that he didn't necessarily agree with. >> remember when the president met with donald trump and he said i see more of a pragmatist and not an ideologue, what do you think of the appointments that he's made so far, his choices so far. is it reflective of that view of the obama view? >> i think it is, because i don't think, especially if you look at foreign policy. he has a foreign policy that was almost to the left of bernie sanders. you look at the way he would talk about, you know, the iraq war or even basically criticizing president bush for his handling of 9/11 and thanks were taboo that nobody would say and he's looking at people very much in the mainstream and hawkish. general petraeus was the architect of the surge in the rauj war so it seems that he's willing to -- to work with people who maybe don't share his world view. >> we should look forward to thursday because they are going to make a big deal out of the carrier thing in ohio. >> let not skip tomorrow because
i'm sure something big will happen tomorrow. don't get ahead of yourself, lemon. >> thank you. when we come back, never had had a president about donald trump, but are fears about his presidency exaggerated? we'll talk to the man who asks should you be afraid of donald trump? and power plants account for more than a third of energy-related carbon emissions. the challenge is to capture the emissions before they're released into the atmosphere. exxonmobil is a leader in carbon capture. our team is working to make this technology better, more affordable so it can reduce emissions around the world. that's what we're working on right now. ♪ energy lives here.
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the subject of his column today in "the daily caller." very interesting column. if you haven't rode it i suggest do. matt, thanks so much for coming off. you ask a pretty direct question in your column this morning. should you be afraid of president trump so should we? >> well, i think we should -- i mean, we should always be vij lab. i'm of the opinion that all politicians, republican, democrat, we should always be skeptical of them. we need the media to help us to keep an eye on them and to hold them accountable, and in the case of donald trump i would say there were a lot of people who were very concerned about his authoritarian tendencies, his -- a sense that he didn't fully respect the rule of law, understand or appreciate the balance of powers. but then he got elected, and i'm starting to see a re-emergence, maybe of a realization that this is very real and that this -- there could be a guy who -- who has these -- this streak who is going to be president. we're seeing it happen right now
with the tweets about the flag burning where he wants to possibly take away citizenship. he's going after media outlets for pointing out that he's lying about voter fraud, costing him the -- the popular vote, and so this just raises questions about, you know, we talked about temperament. that means different things to different people, but, you know, it could be very real. i would say this. i think the big threat that i'm hearing from people is god forbid if there were a big event like a terrorist attack. how would a donald trump then react, and how might our freedoms be curtailed in that possibility? >> it's interesting because i was watching the boston marathon documentary on hbo this weekend with friends, and they were saying -- and they she had club from president obama speaking and consoling the nation and some of them said can you imagine donald trump doing this and their answer was no, but, you know, sadly we're going to -- he's going to have to do
it because something will happen. you say this. you write this. you say american democracy has been blessed with a system that has largely served us well for 238 years. for the first time in my lifetime, however, people seem to be wondering if the system is self-destructing. so you say that there are two things that hold american leaders in check, character and the system, and there are concerns about both in this case. >> i think that's right. i think that -- so, american history, you know, isn't perfect. we've had presidents, even presidents considered great who have done things like japanese internment and that was in response to an attack and to a serious event, but, look, i think that that's true, right, so on one hand we need men and women of principle and character who will check themselves and not try to use authority. i think back to george washington who really could have
made himself a king, and in fact the king can have edge land, you know, they told him what's george washington going to do after the revolutionary war? they said he's going to go back and be a farmer, and the king of england literally said then that will make him the greatest man in the world if he actually does, that because you -- washington could have made himself a king. instead he decides not to do it obviously. the other thing protecting us though is our system, right, so even if we have a president, maybe a nicks nicks or a lyndon johnson who doesn't necessarily respect the system, he's held in check by the balance of powers. we've got a federalist system where states have certain authority. we've got three branches of government. you for example the supreme court can say something is unconstitutional, but what if there's a disaster and the president says how many divisions does the pope have or how many divisions does the supreme court have and that's the kind of scary thing and i don't want to get people paranoirksd you know, but these
are things we need to think through and it's important for us to do that and people in congress and other leaders to stand up when push comes to shove against a very powerful president and maybe, you know, a presidency and executive branch that has gotten stronger in recent years. >> yeah, and also there are concerns about, you know, the intermingling, the possibility of intermingling business with politics here, about the cop flicks of interest. our system is designed to limit the power of any one player and here's something else. you said the fact donald trump has rolled over so many barriers, tra diggs, institutions and inxe tend and/or political elites along the way suggests that his future ambitions might not be able to occur. are you saying that he'sing to break all the rules? >> breaking rules is fine. innovators break rules. all great political leaders who
upset the apple cart somewhere along the line did things nobody thought they could do, and that's good, but when -- when does it end? so, you know, all of the elites who stood up to trump were one by one basically taken down. will that continue into his presidency? when people oppose him, will he be co-opted? will people just sort of bow to him as we're starting to see people do now and people who were very critical of him in the past, all of a sudden buddying up to him and even making a an excuse. better to have him on the inside than on the outside, but this is a guy who is incredibly charismatic. he has some -- definitely some strong authoritarian tendencies. we've had that before. look, andrew jackson, thee door roosevelt, but, you know, democracy and freedom i believe is fragile. some people think it's very resill yefnlt i think it's more
fragile than we might want to admit and vigilance is the watchword here. >> matt, over half the voters did not choose him and did not vote for donald trump and hill hill won the popular vote but a large number did, and they hate the system and love trump's character. as you say, he's very charismatic. is this handwriting -- hand-wringing, excuse me, part of the establishment types, is it warranted, do you think? >> well, i think that it will be greeted as, you know, pearl clutching. >> that's my phrase, liberals. >> oh, my god, clutching their pearls. >> eyore, whatever, but because -- so -- so all of the sort of checks and balances are unpopular, okay, so congress is very unpopular. the media is very very unpopular. interestingly the only institutions that are actually maintaining their popularity are the military and the police which are institutions that --
that i believe in but also institutions that sort of fit into a more right wing world view, and so basically there was a study in the "new york times" today, a research that was reported in the "new york times" today, that an increasing number of americans are okay with like a military-led government, and -- and so that's part of it, but the people who would hold a strong man accountable. congress, the supreme court, media elites, they are seen as part of the problem, and that -- that's a concern, again, if you care about sort of preserving representative democracy, and i would also add, like let's also take donald trump out of this for a second. like, i think that this is important to be saying really no matter who the president is. i spoke out against some of barack obama's executive orders. >> yeah. >> and i think that in some ways he paved the path to -- to expanding the power of the
presidency as did many of his predecessors. >> we need to have a talk about that elite word. i have an issue with that but that's for another time. stick around, matt. when we come right back, donald trump makes a deal to keep -- to keep 1,000 jobs in the u.s. is it a sign of things to come? i am totally blind. i lost my sight in afghanistan. if you're totally blind, you may also be struggling with non-24. calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com.
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donald trump making a deal to keep 1,000 jobs in the u.s. let's discuss, jack kingston, former congressman and senior adviser to the trump campaign and cnn political commentator and daily beast commentator sally cohen and matt lewis back with me, really appreciate the conversation before. thank you for that. representative kingston, let's start with you. donald trump has reach an agreement with the parent company of carrier air conditioning to keep almost 11,000 jobs in indiana, about two-thirds of the jobs that were supposed to move to mexico. that's a big victory for those workers and a symbolic victory for donald trump. can he replicate that, do you think? >> i think he can, and i think it's a sign of things to come. i think he's a businessman who doesn't mind going and getting and having an on-hands approach and getting into the weeds, if you will, because in a big country of 320 million people,
those jobs might not mean a lot in the big scheme of things, but they mean a heck of a lot to those people, those thousands of people so the fact that he focused on it, i think sends a good signal that we want jobs to stay in america, but i think that's not where he's going to stop, you know, going factory by factory, if you will. he wants less regulations that kill jobs and he wants to unleash capital so that community banks can start making loans again and entrepreneurs can expand and young men and women can get in the marketplace and move out of their parent's basements and good things like that, so, you know, i think this is a great first step. >> yeah. there are a lot of parents who would like that idea, of the kids to move out of the basements. matt, will the president-elect personally be negotiating these deals, do you think? >> no. i think like in this case mike pence obviously was, you know, heavily involved being the former -- current governor of indiana, but, look, i think it's -- it's interesting. i think in a way it's symbolism
over substance. i think that, you know, look, we're talking about 1,000 jobs. he could go around the country doing this. not going to add up to a whole lost jobs, and you can argue that it's -- it sort of skews the free market and it's crony capitalism and what's he promising this company to get them to stay in indiana to make him look good politically, but it does make him look good politically and i have to say, like -- it may be bad economics and it may be bad policy. it looks great. finally, a politician who actually rolls up his sleeves and like basically makes a company keep jobs in america. that's going to be wildly popular. >> sal? >> well, this is a fearful premonition of what a trump presidency could be like. so, first of all, listen, the 2,000 jocks, that's fantastic, you know, i feel -- congratulations to those who get to keep their jobs, great for the state of indiana, great for the country, no doubt about it. this symbol imover substance
dynamic though is basically how donald trump won the presidency and let's be cleefrp the current president, president obama has presided over 55 straight months of private sector job growth. that's a record in the american economy, but he gets trashed including by president-elect trump and yet president-elect trump, you know, saves 1,000 jobs and it's a really good pr coup, so this sort of style over substance, you know, symbolism over circumstances that really is donald trump in a nutshell. >> yeah. >> you know -- >> even saving the auto industry there were republicans who had negative things to say about that but go on. >> i would point out that the stock market is at an all-time high since the election and thousands of dollars have been made and reinvested into the economy because of him, and there is -- listen, there's an optimism out thereto that we're not going to have the job-killing regulations and the dodd/franks and the obamacares that businesses have been shackled by in the last four to
eight years, so i -- >> you think it's because of him or do you think that's because the election is resolved regardless of who is in there an the stock market may have been a bit instable because they didn't know who was going -- we didn't know who was going to be president? >> i know it did not go down and that's what so many people did. >> if it went down, i bet you would have blamed president obama and not trump, i mean, come on. >> sally, how could you say that. >> representative, come on, you know she's right. >> you know she is eright. >> listen, let motel you. we'll have great prosperity and infrastructure and jobs. this is a man who knows how to get people working again. >> one can only hope that you're right about that because that would be great for all americans, but i do have to ask you this represent stiff kingston. what's interesting here is that donald trump in his own businesses outsourced jobs himself. how will he be able to convince other business, do as i say and not as i do? >> you know, i think what he wants to do is foster a better business climate in america, a better tax code that's more responsive and government regulate thoors work with
businesses rather than i gotcha and that you're guilty of doing something because you want to expand your businesses, and, you know, again, the infrastructure that he wants to build and that he's commits to, more roads, more roads and highways to move goods an services across kun can you try and these are good things for the economy, things that democrats and republicans and purple, blue and red that people will prosper by. there's a new sheriff in town and that's what the election is about, that people want topped change and he's going to deliver on this, and if you look at his economic team that he's putting together, these are people who know how to make money and know how to create jobs. >> give someone else a chance, representative. >> sorry. >> first of all, his economic team are a bunch of wall street cronies, number one, and number two, look, the united states has the lowest effective corporate tax rate, second lowest of all the developed countries in the developed world so let's be clear. we already have a very business friendly environment and all we need to know to look at that is
in the post-recession economy all the economic growth, about 90% of the economic growth went to corporate profits and bottom lines. it didn't go to worker wages, so, look, we need to fix the economy, make it work better for working people. we need to see people's wages that have been stagnant for way too long across too many presidencies start to go up. what we don't need is more tax cuts for big birks millionaires and billionaires which donald trump has proposed. that is his tax proposal. we've got plenty business friendly environment and we need a worker friendly. >> to her point, he ran on anti-wall street and appointing someone from goldman sachs, that's what cnn is learning here. what does that do for his argument that this anti-wall street and i'm going do things differently platform that he ran on? >> i don't think it hurts him with the american public, certainly not with his base, look, these are people who made a calculated decision to vote for a "true lies" married casino
magnate as the sorts of every man conservative candidate, so there's already -- i don't -- i don't even think it's cognitive dissonance. it's a logical thing. he's going to be our man on the inside, and i think donald trump, if he was in a debate today and somebody said to him you just hired this guy like from goldman sachs, you said you were going to drain the swamp. he who say i need people who know how -- who know how the market works to take it apart basically, you know, to fix it, and so i -- i think that -- it's a weird argument, but i think it's consistent with what trump has said the whole time and he's gotten a lot of american public to buy in on it. >> exact opposite of what he said bashing hillary. >> look at the dinner tonight. >> frog leg soup. >> google the menu and see how much it cost to dine there and then you'll know what matt is talking about. >> coming back, the police shooting that shocked the country. walter scott a black man shot in
the back by a white cop michael schrager. a dramatic day in the trial today. we'll have the late for you. ade, made with fresh milk and real cream. makes your recipes their holiday favorites. the holidays are made with philly. ♪ if you've got the time welcome to the high life. ♪ we've got the beer ♪ miller beer will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com.
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the defense rested its case in the michael schrager case in charleston, south carolina. schrager, a white former police officer is charged with murder in the shooting death of walter scott, a black man who tried to escape after schrager stopped him for a traffic violation. the shooting caught on cell phone camera. [ gunshots ] bleep blep. >> you have to to watch that video. boris, good evening to you. today michael slager gave his version of why he shot and killed walter scott. what did he say? >> hey, don, yeah. he said that essentially that video doesn't tell the whole story. he says that before the cameras were rolling that he was in an
altercation with walter scott. there was a scuffle and he claims that walter scott took his taser from him and aimed it back at him and that the gunfire you see in the video was essentially his response to that. the prosecution jumped on that. they went second by second, frame by frame and in excruciating detail over that video with walter scott's family in the courtroom, and they were asked michael schrager all kinds of questions about where he was looking and how he was shifting his weight and again and again they asked him how could walter scott have been a threat to his life if he had been trying to get away. here's some of that exchange. >> would you agree that even if mr. scott had that taser it could not have been used against you at the distance depicted on that video? >> at that time, i didn't have that information, so i -- i can't answer that question. >> you've seen the video. >> i have. >> and you've heard that he was
18 feet away. would you agree that he was not a threat to you with that taser without a cartridge from that distance. >> no. >> okay. so you're going stick to that? >> yes, and the reason is from 18 feet he could have turned around and attacked me again. >> and that led to a very uncomfortable moment, don. the prosecution literally handing michael slager a tape measure and asking him to hold it. the prosecutor then walking 18 feet away. that represents the 18 feet between michael slager and walter scott when slager first opened fire. the prosecutor holding the tape measure with his back turned to him and turning around and asking him how could a person this far away running away from you have been a threat to your life. slager stuck to his guns saying that he responded according to his training and he opened fire as quickly as he could on someone that he felt had threatened his life, don. >> boris, this interesting moment in the courtroom, we
hear, slager apparently broke down over his family situation. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: right. that was during the defense portion of the questioning when they were asking him about his upbringing, where he went to high school what, got him into service and to being a police officer, and then they asked him specifically about his family life and his child, his wife was actually pregnant when the encounter with walter scott happened, and show gave birth while he was in prison and got emotional when he was being asked how he felt not being there the day that his son was born. the prosecution turned that around and they actually closed their cross-examination by asking him if he cried the day that he shot and killed walter scott, so overall very uncomfortable, very emotional day in court, don. >> boris sanchez, thank you very much. now i want to wring in "new york times" op-ed columnist mark blow, mark o'mara and sedgwick alexander the author of "the new guardian." good evening. mark, you first.
officer slager shot scott in the back five times and claims he was coming at him when he fired and the cell phone video which is key evidence here which boris sanchez says doesn't tell the whole story. when you see scott running away from the cop and not towards him does overs slager's defense makes sense to you? >> simply doesn't. that's all he's got. the only thing that he can say is i acted that way because i was in his mind reasonable fear of great podly injury. that's the only way that an officer can discharge his weapon, a deadly force event. he has to be in reasonable fear of imminent great bodily injury. it simply cannot exist when sun has their back to you unless they are armed with a firearm themselves and when they are running away. it's literally all he has. we have to understand that cops in these cases are often given the benefit of the doubt, however. we can look at the tensing case up in cincinnati where a hung jury just happened, and it's
difficult, but in this case if there wasn't a video, then we know that walter scott was the enormous aggressor about to turn on him. only four feet away when the shot happened, and that videotape actually shows what happened, and there was no justification to slager's reaction. take out his gun and to fire that many shots at walter scott's back. it was murder. >> sedgwick, from a law enforcement perspective, what is your -- do you agree, you know, that mark o'mara is saying it was murder. what is your biggest concern about how the office handled it? >> let me say this i think mark is right on point. don, i've been in this business a very long time and seen a lot of various types of situations such as this, and it's very clear, clearly there were some things that occurred before the video footage took place, but a video footage in and of itself i think is very point blank clear as to what occurred and shots
being fired of the victim in this case running away from the officer. what is that immediate threat that he keeps referring to, and he's going to have to have a challenging time trying to convince a jury of that being the case, but here again we're talking about police officers who do a very exceptional type of job, and it was the threat that he says that he experienced, and that's what he's going to have to convince this jury of. but that peeves footage is somewhat challenging i think. >> speaking of the footage, charles. you don't buy the self-defense claim. you say that's clearly a crime going down on the cell phone footage and we should believe with a what we see. >> all i can say is what i do see, and with all these cases you have to answer for each bullet that you fire, and so with each individual bullet that he fires, walter scott is further and further away from him, so the idea that he was
somehow turning back. he actually wasn't. every time he fired walter was further and further away. i mean, the bigger thing we always have to understand here. one thing that mark said, it's very difficult for police officers is part of that is unlike other areas of law, these particular kinds of shootings are not only about what you do but about how you feel when you are doing it. and the big er part of that feeling is fear and the idea that fear governs so much of what is considered guilt or not guilt in these cases because we all know anybody who studies the construction and activation of fear, you know that it is a very complicated thing. a lot can go into it, things that are actually conscious to you, things that are not conscious to you, things that may make me afraid, may not make you afraid, and the idea that that is a separate kind of
justice then, for instance, if we were having, you know, some sort of workplace discrimination case. it's simply about what you did. the jury doesn't want to know how you felt when you did it. they just want to know if these people were doing the same thing, the same kind of job, had the same performance and one got dismissed and the other got promoted then there's something wrong here, hand that is -- that is reason for guilt. in these cases, it's not that. you layer on top of what you did how the person felt, and that makes it incredibly difficult to ever come away with a guilty verdict. >> all right. stand by, everyone. when we come right back, what will it take to get justice in this case? we'll discuss. once i heard i was going to be a park ranger, i got really excited. gabe's obviously really sick. and there's a lot that he isn't able to do, and make-a-wish stepped in. we had to climb up the mountain to get the injured hiker. he fell from, like, a rock. he's been the one that has been rescued so many times. he said to me, "today, i got to be the hero."
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threaten you other than just trying to get away? >> no, not at that time. >> walter scott was unarmed and officer even says he did nothing to threaten him other than run away. is there anything his defense attorney can use to change the way this incident is being viewed? >> going to use what we talked about a moment ago, get across to the jury this his actions at the moment he was doing it were justified, okay because he was in fear. you remember from slager's testimony, he said i was afraid, there was a fight. i thought he with as going to hurt me when he got away. >> okay way to get him with something less than murder conviction, that this officer who obviously shot and killed this man should be forgiven because of what he was thinking
in his heart and what showed in his mind because of his actions. i think one of the most telling parts of the video beyond the shooting is what he did afterwards. >> ymean the putting the -- >> yeah. >> the officer picks something up from the ground where he and michael scott were apparently struggling, walks over and drops it next to the suspect. >> that to me is evidence of guilt. he can say he was afraid and worried but certainly had the consciousness of mind to pick something up and in effect plant it near mr. scott with the suggestion or intonight say that was a weapon he had or somehow manufacture evidence that supported justification of the shooting and think the prosecution needs to focus on that, because just like in the
killing where made up story of getting run over by a car which didn't show up on the video, that is what slager did on the video and shows what he was thinking at that moment. if you listen to the testimony they bring that up and his defense is number one i don't remember the tazer dropped next to me, i do not remember picking up the tazer and dropping it next to his body, that i was in such a state of fear and shock that all of that is blocked out to me. essentially that's what he's saying. that goes back to this idea that you can craft a defense. this is the shocking part of american jurisprudence as it relates to these shootings. shocking part is you can actually craft a defense that says, i felt so much fear that the things i actually did, i do
not -- it is blacked out by the intensity of that fear. and therefore i don't even remember the things the video shows everybody sees me doing. >> when you look at this video, do you think -- would an officer have a valid reason for shooting someone multiple times in the back, walking away to pick up something laying on the ground and then walking back and dropping it? >> absolutely not. it was troubling months ago and tonight. any of us look at this, see the victim attempting to rup away, as slowly as he was. shots fired. police officer who casually walks towards the subject. disturb a crime scene by moving the tazer from where it fell from the victim's hands and moving it towards his body.
that's somewhat suspect. here's the thing we also have to remember in all of this. >> ten seconds. >> training issue and policy. how we train and how we enact policies with police officers. if this is the case, appears to be poor training and brings up issues about policies inside of that agency. these things have to be addressed but slager is going to have a challenging time trying to convince that jury. >> have to leave it. >> don, if i might. best case justifying body cameras on every cop. without that cell phone video, would have been a different story. >> thank you gentlemen. that's it for us. thanks for watching. see you back here tomorrow. diabetes can be a daily struggle,
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