time now to and it over to don lemon and "cnn tonight." >> our breaking news. two major stories an ocean apart. terror in manchester and new developments in the russia investigation. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. britain raising its threat level to critical tonight fearing another attack may be imminent. isis claiming responsibility for the manchester suicide bombing that killed at least 22 people, including children and teenagers. plus, dramatic developments in the russia investigation. the president lawyering up expecting to hire his longtime

new york-based legal adviser, described as a tenacious litigator to represent him, that's as the former head of the cia testifies in public for the first time that he saw evidence that the russians were trying to court trump aides. we've got the latest on both big stories for you this evening. let's get right to cnn's cnn international correspondent atika shubert. the uk raising its threat level new details about the bomber ng- salman abedi. what can you tell us about this investigation? >> reporter: well, police really focused their search on two locations, two houses really, and i'm on the street where one of those searches took place. they actually used a controlled detonation to get into the home where at least the last known address of salman abedi. they basically went in with forensics teams, combed through it and brought out some material for further investigation, documents, for example, but we don't have any more details about what they found inside.

now the second location they looked at we now know from talking to a family friend and neighbor was the home of salman abedi's brother. now in that same area, police also made a very quick and efficient arrest of a 23-year-old suspect believed to be a man -- believed to be linked to the suspect. now he was literally just walking along street when a masked and arm policeman came and plucked him from the street and brought him into the station, so that's what we know about the police activity today, but we're still trying to get information on exactly what kinds of explosives were used and what kind of detonation device was used. how was this bomb packed? those will be critical clows to understanding how the attack was carried out and whether or not it was not just one person but a whole cell involved. >> atika shubert reporting from manchester this evening. i want to turn to the other breaking news story tonight and that's major developments in the

russia investigation. we're learning tonight that president trump is hiring his attorney general to hire him according to a senior official and person close to trump. let's turn to cnn's global affairs david rhodes and writer for "vanity fire" and political reporter nia-malika henderson. the last 24 hours have contained damaging revelations about the president and the russia investigation, first from reports that president trump asked two top officials, director of national security, admiral mike rogers and the director of national intelligence dan coates to publicly deny collusion between his campaign and russia which they declined to do and then today the former cia director john brennan gave his public testimony. >> i encountered and i'm aware of information an intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between russian officials and u.s. persons

involved in the trump campaign. that i was concerned about because of known russian efforts to suborn the individuals and it raised questions whether the russians were able to gain cooperation of those individuals. >> the first time public acknowledgements of contact between trump officials and russian officials and the trump campaign and also he was worried enough to alert the fbi. i think that's his job to alert fbi, but this is -- the whole question, you know, how many contacts? reuters reported recently that there were 18 phone calls before the election between trump associates and differed russian officials. several of them were by michael flynn, new subpoenas towards him today and the question is what was said in those calls. to be fair brennan said he personally did not know of

evidence of conclusion, and that's up to the fbi and that's up to the mueller investigation and the congressional committees. >> that's not what he does, what the fbi does. >> he's barred by law, the cia by law cannot investigate americans. >> nia, reports along with the comey reporting, show a pattern of the president reaching out to people about the russia investigation, the national -- the director of national intelligence dan coates declined to comment when asked about his role and i want you to take a look at his answer. >> i have always believed that given the nature of my position and information which we share, it's not appropriate for me to comment publicly on any of that, and so on this topic as well as other topics i don't feel it's appropriate to characterize discussions and conversations with the president. >> nia, he was measuring every single word he said today. you can see how careful he's

picking his words. he could have denied the report but he didn't. >> yeah. there was no flat out denial there, and there was also no firm shutting of the door in terms of him talking about this later. he said he didn't feel it was comment or appropriate to comment publicly on that, and it's likely that at some point, and he alluded to this at some point later it's appropriate whether it's behind closed doors to go into more detail about those conversations, but -- but, you know, sort of if you step back, the time line of events, of this president talking to people about this investigation, talking to comey, for instance, back in january at that dinner where he seems to ask for some sort of loyalty pledge and then you reach out to comey again and essentially telling him to lay off flynn after he resigns and the conversations that we've been reporting on, the "new york times" reporting on with coates

and rogers as well, where he owe essentially asked them to publicly deny that there's any collusion and also a lot of the reporting is coming out, too, that it's not only trump it's people around him in the white house trying to figure out how to tamp down on this and how to essentially run a pl campaign around this flynn investigation, wondering if the fbi can squash the investigation and wondering if intelligence officials can come out and say something different and the essentially say there was no evidence of collusion. the the lines are not being clear between the white house eyes as well as is fbi and intelligence agencies more generally. >> david, i have to ask, nia is using -- she sees choosing her words carefully as well. she is saying timeline, and the question is, you think about comey and fired comey and fired the russians.

i got that russia thing off the table. that's gone. are we seeing a parent. is this a pattern of the president trying to pressure top officials like this? >> it's a pattern of him trying to get it out of the news and that's the question. this is the question of obstruction of justice. >> what's the motive behind that? >> correct, and it depends what's his goal and then does it actually obstruct the investigation. those are the high legal bars. at the very least it's an astonishing political mistake on his part by doing these things, and if he does it again in any way, shape or form it's just going to add fuel to the fire and make russia an even better story. >> emily, got to ask you, you got a scoop today. he is hiring an attorney, a longtime adviser, right? but you're hearing that he -- someone asked advice from chris christie about who the president -- what the president should do and tell me about this. >> sure. two people familiar with the conversation said that chris christie, governor of new jersey and an ally of donald trump with

him on the campaign once he dropped out of the presidential race and led into the transition before he was replaced by mike pence that jared kushner called him asking him if trump should seek legal counsel and christie according to someone who smoke to him last week said the president should lawyer up and should shut his mouth. as we know now, the president is hiring a private lawyer and he has been pretty quiet while he's been on this forward trip abroad. >> that's interesting. these two -- chris christie and jared kushner as allies, what's happening here? >> well, a white house official told me earlier this year that christie and kushner who have a long history of -- christie was the prosecutor -- >> prosecuted his father. >> jared kushner's father in prison. >> so they had a long history of animosity towards one another, but they hve buried the hatchet earlier this year saying, look, the president is going to be in office. we have bigger fish to fry basically and turns out they did have bigger fish to fry and

that's what they are dealing with now. >> all these crises in the white house bringing these two together which is interesting. >> a beautiful friendship. >> i mean, it is. it's interesting to see those two come together, especially given the history. dana bash interviewed senator john mccain and asked about trump asking his two top officials to -- >> i don't think it's logical for the president of the united states would ask them not to investigate and i would say it's a lousy movie. >> it's a lousy movie and terribly politically. why would you say these things to people? i mean, it's really shocking, and whether it's the president himself or his staff, they should know better. the russia story has been rage since the end of the election. it's been months and months and

months. to take these steps. it's at least reckless at worse and to suppress the investigation. >> nia, that's what you said before, you said before what the line is and what the protocol is, but, still, these are adults. are we giving them too much leeway in this because i think people who maybe are not as worldly as the people we have in the white house would probably know better. >> yeah, and this is a white house that came in essentially boasting that will they were the smartest guys in the room, and the smartest girls in the room, that everybody else who had served in administrations didn't know what they were doing. i believe at one point donald trump talked about the folks around him, his cabinet officials, having the heist iq of any other administration. >> he knew better than the generals. >> yeah. he knew better than the generals, and the folks around him were the best and the brightest, and that was supposed to kind of assure people who might have had doubts about his

inexperience, that he had hired people who had experience. but, again this, gets to sort of the thin ranks around him. we're talking about christie before. christie in some ways they should have listened to christie way back when because he was raising are the ate lambs about mike flynn way back during the trainings but he was ousted from the transition. mike flynn put in place there because that have tension that he had with jared kushner going back to the prosecution of jared kushner's father, so, you know, a lot of red flags that they didn't listen, to and it's still unclear why. sort of mystery of this enduring loyalty and enduring bond between donald trump and mike flynn. >> emily is shaking your head here and for emily that's a big -- you're agreeing. >> chris christie came out yesterday in a press conference in new jersey and said he's not my cup of tea, mike flynn. i wouldn't have hired him or put him in the white house but i'm not the president. of all the criticism that jared kushner gets, one thing that i've been told over and over again is that he's not afraid to ask what he does not know, and i would take it as a good sign if

it is true that he went to governor kristie last week. he's a senior adviser to the president. he have should be seeking advice from other people. >> that's an interesting comment from governor christie and i think it ended with a throat clear. thank you all. appreciate it. >> when we come back. none of this is good news for the president. i'll ask two former white house counsels what they think of the investigation so far. learn about non-24 by calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com.

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our president trump lawyering up that as former cia director john brennan publicly tells congress he's worried -- he worried about contacts between russian officials and the trump campaign. let's bring in bob behr, the former obama white house counsel and cnn contributor john dean, the former nixon white house counsel and the author of "conservatives without conscience." good to have you here. john, i'll start with you. watergate was a story that developed by a drip, drip, drip of reporting and leaks. these last few days we have been seeing a deluge of news. how serious is that right now, and how bad is this for the president? >> well, it certainly has been fire hose speed news which is very unlike watergate and it strikes me that mr. trump has made more mastakes in a small intense area of coverage of this thing than nixon did over a protracted amount of time. but they both made mistakes and brought a lot of harm on

themselves, and i'm not sure that trump hasn't done the same in hiring a counsel who doesn't have a real background in washington. >> but it's someone apparently he's trusts because he's counseled him for. >> it's bauer, have a bob behr on networks so i apologize. you say the networks are not handling the investigation well. >> the president has tweeted on the subject. he has up to this point made a number of public comments that have been unhelpful including comments that are inconsistent with what others in the administration had said so it's not clear that there's any real discipline around the communication of the president's position here, and any selectivity, any care in deciding what it is he should talk about and what it is that he shouldn't, but certainly what he has said, for example, i saw it in the last segment, the

reference to a letter that he sent out, the letter of dismissal to mr. comby in which he specifically says that he sought and received or at least he received, so he says, on three separate occasions assurances from fbi director comey that he was not under investigation. it's not at all clear certainly whether that's true. that may be. that may not be, but one way or the other he would put that out in a letter is the undisciplined and self-defeating approach thatty he's taking here. >> according to two sources president trump asked two officials to publicly deny cooperation between his campaign and russia. i mean, both of these men were uncomfortable with the requests. they did refuse. when the director of national intelligence dan coates was asked about the report today, he didn't confirm. he didn't deny it either. he simply said it would be inappropriate to discuss discussions he had with the president. is it legally appropriate for

the president -- for president trump to ask two top intelligence officers something like this? >> well, it's not unlike what mr. nixon did that got him in a lot of trouble when he asked the cia through his chief of staff to go to the fbi and tell them to halt part of their investigation. actually haldeman, his chief of staff, didn't carry out the full instructions, but they were certainly there on tape. i think that what he's doing -- what trump is doing is certainly more than a pr effort. if he could get these people to step out and give him some sort of wedge or opening against the fbi, i think he would have used it and pursued it because he clearly doesn't want the fbi investigation to go forward, so it's part of a pattern, showing his intent, and this may come back to haunt him, don. >> you think it's part of a pattern. i asked that in the last segment. you think this is a pattern? >> i do. i think it's a clear pattern. even when he's sharing his private thinking with lester holt and saying, well, i didn't

think this was a legitimate investigation. therefore, i thought it was appropriate to fire this guy who was causing me all these problems and said in another conversation with the russians that indeed he was relieved now that he had fired comey because that took the investigation off of him. it's just a steady pattern of he wants to block an investigation. and as president, regardless of his motive, he doesn't have the right to block the fbi investigation. >> at miller mike rogers of the nsa wrote a memo documenting his conversations. when you look at president trump's actions together, again, talking about pattern or time line or motivation, his firing of the former director, fbi director james comey, the conversations with intelligence chiefs and the comment to top russian officials and the comey dismissal eased pressure on the investigation, is this something that could rise to the level of impeachment?

>> well, that's something for congress to address. of course, the standards under our criminal law are different than the ones that congress uses to determine whether to initiate an impeachment inquiry. it's a very different line of analysis on congress' part, but i -- i certainly share the view that the president has brought significant trouble on himself, and i also agree that where you have granting that we may not know all the facts at this point. some of this is generally reported material but where you seem to have an accumulation of activity by the president to seek assurances about his own legal saltus and to attempt to ward off this investigation, he's going to cause himself trouble, both within the criminal enforcement system and on capitol hill. whether the trouble he causes himself on capitol hill will ever lead to an impeachment inquiry is at the moment not knowable. >> bob, i have to ask you, given your own experience serving on a white house counsel. is president trump getting the right guidance from his white

house counsel don mcgawn. >> it's impossible to know without knowing the substance of the relationship or the exchanges of information and advice between the two, lawyers can be advising completely accurately, completely correctly, very sagely and clients are not listening, or it's possible that something is getting lost in the translation. it's hard to say. certainly as i mentioned earlier with the letter and certainly with these reported known calls, you know, to comey to seek reassurance, to senator coates and to director rogers to seek assurance, if he's getting advice and the advice we think he ought to be getting, he's not listening to it. >> he is a counsel to the white house and the presidency, not his personal counsel, john. do you think he's getting the right advice though or giving the right advice to the president? >> i think white house counsel, that -- that whole shop is a very good group of lawyers, and whether trump is listening to them is another question. what's interesting and got to be

remembered is post-ken starr there is no attorney-client privilege so he'd be wise toss have limited conversations if indeed they are having conversations on this subject at all. >> john, bob, i thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you. when we come back, key insight into the man at the center of of this growing investigation. lieutenant general michael flynn's friend joins me. why he says flynn didn't want to be president trump's national security adviser. at whole foods market,

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the senate intelligence committee issuing new subpoenas for documents from businesses run by michael flynn, the former national security adviser. if he doesn't comply the committee warns contempt charges could be filed. want to bring in a friend of general flynn's and he's also -- they co-wrote this book called "the field of fight." also cnn national security analyst juliette kiam. good evening to both of you. appreciate your insight into michael flynn. he's your friend. >> yes. >> he's at the center of the firestorm plaguing the trump

campaign over potential collusion with the russians. you say michael flynn, the one we read about in the newspapers, the one we see on television or at least people talk about on television is not the michael flynn that you know. how so? >> well, the michael flynn that i know and with whom i worked very closely to write a book. i mean, writing a book with somebody else is a pretty intimate experience and you get to know your co-author very well. he's one of the most utterly guileless and straightforward and honest truth tellers i think i've ever encountered and then i hear all these people oh, what a liar, he lies and so on, and so there are two different people, the one i know and the one i hear about on tv a lot. >> you think he's a standup guy considering some of the things that he said during the campaign that we learned about. >> i think that when anybody asks him a serious question,

that they will get a serious and honest answer from him. >> okay. >> you say michael flynn never wanted to be national security adviser. why not? >> i don't know why not. and that surprised me, too, frankly, but he didn't. >> why did he accept it? >> i suppose donald trump can be very persuasive, an it's hard if a president or a president-elect says to you, hey, come work with me. we need you. you're the best person for this job, and i trust you. >> did he tell you specifically that he didn't want to do it or are you just assuming that he didn't? >> no, no, i know that he didn't want to do it. i know that he didn't want to the do any more government service, at least for a while, that he wanted to be a private citizen. >> do you think he knew he could possibly end up in this kind of trouble and maybe that's the reason he didn't want to do it? >> i'm not a mind reared. all i can tell you is -- is that i know he didn't want it. >> does he have regrets?

>> i don't know because from the moment this started and then he was surrounded by lawyers. the only thing we've talked about is that we're both lucky men. he has a new grandson and we have a new granddaughter, and we were comparing notes on that. >> just in the interest of time, i'm going to move on and ask more questions. do you know how he is doing and whether he is getting help with his legal defense? have are you spoken to him? >> i haven't spoken to him about that, but from other people my understanding is that it's a pro bono as it often is in this cases in washington. >> stand by let me bring juliette in. flynn is pleading the fifth, refusing to testify or and over any documents. the senate intelligence committee is threatening to hold him in contempt if he doesn't

comply and issue two subpoenas which don't fall under fifth amendment protection. do you think they will get the information that they need from michael flynn? >> they may. i think what they are trying to do at least on the senate side is to show that their investigation is still going on that on and that they can continue to try to get information from flynn without granting the immunity which he at least had said he wanted. but i have to say i don't blame flynn for the fifth. if i were his lawyers, that's exactly what you would want adviced. you have the fbi as well as mueller now circulating and circling around not just flynn but, of course, a white house that he was a part of, but picking up on what michael said. i actually think there are two mike flynns. i think that this public and the one that you hear about and the one -- the people who knew mike flynn before when i was government, the head of the dia, he was a person that had worked the ranks, was considered

thoughtful. he had some management challenges at dia which ultimately let to him being fired by the obama administration, but there was nothing that would have told you in his biography then that he would be in this position now, that that -- that that justifies anything he may have done more recently, we don't know. that's why there's an investigation and mike flynn is interesting. he's an enigma. he may be a criminal. we don't know that part yet but that he's complicated is certainly true, and his complications, taking money from the russians are, doing those speeches, his clients in urge itty, that complication is actually what got him into -- into so much trouble. >> and michael thorks that point, all of the reporting that -- that's getting the president into trouble comes back to michael flynn. the president was asking jim comey to drop investigation into flynn, firpg comey and asking two intelligence officials publicly to say there's no evidence of collusion between the campaign and the russians.

>> yeah, didn't the former head of cia that again yesterday? >> let me get my question out. >> the president continues to defend flynn even though he was fired. why do you think the president is so fiercely loyal to michael flynn? >> because i think he likes him a lot. they were together constantly during the cape. he had flynn introduce him at campaign ramis and so on, so there's obviously a deep personal relationship there. >> yeah. >> okay. michael, thank you. appreciate you coming on. juliette, always a pleasure. thanks so much. when we come back, more on today's explosive testimony from the former cia chief. why it could make the president's life a lot tougher. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something...

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former cia director john brennan telling house investigators that russia brazenly infeared in u.s. elections including actively contacting members of the trump campaign. let's discuss with cnn global affairs correspondent tony blinken and with real admiral john kirby. i want to get to you weigh in on the last conversation i had with michael la dean, a friend of michael flynn because you knew

michael flynn or you know him and what i was trying to ask him and how do you reconcile a guy who said -- that started the lock her up chant that president obama wasn't born in america, that he was born in africa and on and on and called him a guileless straight-laced guy who will give you a straight answer. >> his descriptionch general flynn would be way i describe him, at least from my relationship with him. i haven't stayed in touch with general flynn since he left the military and i retired as well, but in my time working with him on joint staff and when he was at dia and i was the pentagon press secretary he was without guile. one of the most intelligent, one of the most loyal and one of the most innovative army officers i ever had had the opportunity to get to know and i still consider it an honor and privilege to have served with him h.i don't know where his political leanings came from, how that started or where -- why it got to where it did. that was a surprise to me, as i think it was a surprise to many who knew him back then. >> do you have any inkling of maybe it was the way he ended

his career or left the obama administration? >> some people have hey alleged, i can't proven this, but some people have said that perhaps his departure from the military, the way in which he left dia, left a very bitter taste in his mouth and might have led to some acrimony there l.i don't know that for a fact but have heard that from some people. >> the former cia director told lawmakers that he encountered intelligence revealing interaction between russian officials and members of the trump campaign. he says that he was concerned about whether russia was able to get those people to cooperate. how damning is that, tony blinken? >> don, you've got a few elements. we know the russians were trying to interfere in the campaign, in the election. we know that as part of that their tactics typically including trying to coon the people, coerce them and get them to cooperate and this is what the former director testified to that there were numerous contacts between russian officials and people affiliated

with the campaign. so all of that creates a lot of smoke but it doesn't yet add up to fire. we don't know if there was actual collusion. that's exactly why we have this investigation and why former fbi director mueller is trying to get to the bottom of it. there's maybe no fire, but at some point if there's a lot of smoke you just start choking on that. >> interesting. why do you say that. explain that. >> well, all of these elements -- here's the problem. when you step back and look at what the russians were trying to do, the main thing they were trying to accomplish is sew doubt about the legitimacy of our system and make our own people an people around the world thinking that it was functioning and unless you can clear this smoke away you're only feeding the fire that russia was trying to set. that's why this investigation is so important. that's why we need to get to the bottom of it, whatever it is. it may be there's nothing there at the bottom but it has to be

done to clear the smoke away and not actually advance what russia was trying to do which was create doubt about our system. >> admiral kirby, the former cia director also suggested during his testimony today that some individuals may have unknowingly cooperated or unwittingly cooperated with russia. take a listen to this. >> i've studied russian intelligence activities over the years and have seen it. it's man fecht in many different counterintelligence cases and how they have been able to get people, including inside cia, to become treasonous and frequently individuals who go along the trucenous path do not even realize they are along that path until it gets to be a bit too late. >> so is it possible that trump campaign members were duped by the russians? >> it's certainly possible. i don't know that he was alluding to any one individual there or even saying anybody crossed the line of treason there. i think he was speaking from his vast wisdom and experience in the intelligence community about how the russians operate.

they do things overtly, you know, try to get you with electronics intelligence or bribery, but they also do things covertly in trying to seidel up to you over type. there's many ways they can develop information and intelligence from different targets. i think it's certainly possible, you know, dependings upon how willing and how corruptible an individual might be, but, again, i really think, i want to go back to what mr. blinken said pause he's right. we need to let the investigation go forward before we jump to clueses. there's a lot of spade work to be done. >> interestingly the statement was from an anonymous white house official saying that there was no collusion. no one wants to go on the record with this defense. >> well, i certainly didn't hear that, dun, in reading the testimony and listening to parts of it. that's no what the former

director said. what he did say is he doesn't have direct evidence of collusion but what he did also say very clearly there sure are a heck of a lot of questions that have been raised by combination of russian interference and russian tactics trying to coon the people an fact there's a lot of contacts. that's what needs to be cleared up, but i'm exactly where john kirby is. let the investigation go forward. let director mueller do his job and his team do their job and see where the chips fall. >> i want to -- can i switch gears,ed a airline kirby. i want to talk to you about this horrible terror attack in manchester that we were reporting on last night and all today on cnn. president trump responded by calling people -- the people responsible evil losers. we don't have to play it, but i just want to get -- they said it was the president's decision to use that word. >> yeah. >> what's your reaction to his choice. >> not the word that i would have used. a better word to describe these -- these people, if you're going to use a word is murderer. it's against the teachings of muslim -- of islam, it's against

the koran to murder, to take a life, an innocent life and that's what they are doing and we saw that, you know, in spades here with what looks like an isis -- at least an isis-inspired attack. i would have used the word murderer, a word they don't like and i don't know that using the word loseers is going to matter much to these guys. i understand what he's trying to do, use a term and vernacular that he's used in his life as a business man and, of course, as a reality show host. loser has a connotation here in our culture that matters. i don't know that it matters to these guys. again, i would pick the word murderer. >> thank you, very. appreciate it. when we come back, more on terror attack in london. we're learning more about the suicide bomber and his plan to target women and children. you too, unnecessary er visits. and hey, unmanaged depression, don't get too comfortable. we're talking to you, cost inefficiencies and data without insights.

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fmy doctor recommended ibgard. abdominal pain and bloating. now i'm in control of my ibs. nonprescription ibgard-calms the angry gut. our breaking news. the uk raising its threat level to critical after the suicide bombing that killed at least 22 people at the ariana grande concert in manchester last night. i want to bring in now counterterrorism expert r.p. eddie, and mia bloom, author of "dieing to kill." so glad to have both of you on

for your expertise and this horrific story. we're learning more about the 22-year-old, salt saman abedi, attacker in this case. what can you tell me? >> he's a normal target for recruitment. he's a second generation british, and about 16 young men have been radicalized around manchester. there's been this transition from gangsterism to jihad. that's happened with some regularity, so we don't know for sure, but i wouldn't be surprised to find out that he was radicalized through that same process. >> do you agree with that, mia? >> yes. in fact, i have also heard that there's a possibility he dropped out of school and may have been back in libya before the attack. if that is the case, we can show a much closer link to isis training. if the bomb is very professionally built, this would have necessitated some training,

hands on training. so i think we need to see more whether this libya connection is actually firmly and correct. >> i think it's interesting that you make the appoint that the attack at this ariana grande concert appears to target women and chirp. you said that's telling. why is that? >> the idea is to try to cause as much shock value as possible. and i think that, you know, the reaction we've seen, we've seen the parents on your show, don. it's heartbreaking that -- this is an idea, these are innocent kids who have done absolutely nothing. they have their whole life ahead of them. so the shock value is exponential. isis is always pushing the envelope. whether they're killing 8-year-olds at a rock concert or using 8-year-olds as suicide bombers, they are violating every norm we have in society and they keep pushing the envelope further and further. >> remember 2015, three suicide

bombers at the batta clan -- bataclan in paris. the bars, restaurants and concerts, they're soft targets? >> these are easier targets for terrorist. and no matter what we do, once we get to the point where the bomb is enroute, we're not going to be able to stop these soft terrorist attacks. we'll get lucky with intelligence, but it's very difficult. think about going to the airport, you're waiting in the line for tassa. it's very easy for someone to get into that area because they haven't gone through a metal detector at that point. >> how do we establish if they're a part of a terrorist network? >> let's understand something about that. maybe it doesn't matter as much. it only matters in the uk right now if he's in a group and the u.s. intelligence services are going to try to figure that out. i think they already know

something. but isis is real kri three things. you have isis, the terrorist group, the land lord of syria and iraq and holds this false caliphate. you have isis actually sending out foreign terrorists, and this might be one of the few examples that happened. and then you have isis as an idea of mass destruction that recruits people rapidly over the internet. so this could be option number two or three. it doesn't particularly matter. isis is deadly in every dimension. >> everything matters when it comes to fighting terrorism. when i asked my last expert about the term "evil losers" from the president today, as an expert, i'm interested in your take on that. >> when i worked at the white house, it's very important that the president understands the words he uses and that they really matter and he communicates powerfully. i think this president doesn't think the same way many of us do. i also made the point for a long time that these terrorists aren't eight feet tall, and

there's a lot of feeling in the media and there's a lot of feeling that these are super men that will come get us in our sleep. we learned time and time again that they're not. so i don't mind him saying they're not masterminds, but i just think it's not the way a president should speak to use a word like loser. >> mia, what do you think? >> i think r.p. is right. this language will resonate with the president's base, but absolutely no effect on isis. in fact, in terms of the culture, loser in our culture means something very different. it's going to have zero effect. the other thing is that, isis really doesn't care what trump thinks. they have spent the last few days mocking him on their social media and their encrypted platforms. so anything that comes out of his mouth means nothing. but i agree with your last expert, that if you frame it with their being unislamic or they're murderers or some other terminology, that might resonate

more. >> thank you, mia, thank you, r.p. i appreciate it. so before we turn it over to jim sciutto and pamela brown, a word on the families of manchester facing their worst fears right now. i spoke last night to charlotte campbell, whose daughter was missing. the family announcing tonight that 15-year-old olivia was t j tragically killed in the attack. her mother posting, rest in peace, my precious daughter. go sing with the angels and keep smiling. mommy loves you so much. earlier charlotte talked about the last time she heard from her daughter. >> it was half past 8:00. she said they were amazing. she was waiting for ariana grande to come out, and she was so happy. and she thanked me and said she

loved me. and that was the last i heard from her. >> four young victims of the bomb having been identify sod far. our collective hearts are broken tonight. you are in our thoughts and prayers. it goes out to all the families and everyone involved tonight. you know who likes to be in control? this guy. check it out! self-appendectomy! oh, that's really attached. that's why i rent from national.

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this is a cnn special report, white house in crisis. tonight, explosive high level testimony about the trump camp's contacts with russia. as the president appears ready to hire a personal lawyer in this rapidly expanding investigation. i'm jim sciutto. >> and i'm pamela brown. we're fallowing the breaking news in the russian probe. and the central question, was there collusion or obstruction of justice? john brennan revealing that he was concerned about contacts between russian officials and the trump campaign last year, and he told lawmakers t