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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  July 31, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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saving you money wherever you check your phone. yeah, even there. see how much you can save when you choose by the gig or unlimited. call, or go to xfinity mobile. it's a new kind of network designed to save you money. well, another chaotic day at the white house. breaking news on two fronts. scaramucci out as white house communications director. we'll get to that. but we begin with another potential bombshell, a report about who was behind donald trump jr.'s misleading statement the initial statement about the meeting with the russian lawyer. it turns out it was the president. the "washington post" is reporting when the story of the meeting broke, the president's advisers wanted to tell the truth about the meeting in case the full details came out. the president it seems wanted to go in another direction.
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according to "the washington post" the president personally dictated the statement claiming the meeting was about the adoption of russian children. that statement turned out to be false because e-mails released by donald trump jr. show e-mail s he had to release. joining us is jeff zeleny. what more can you tell us? >> i was on air force one that day as the pool reporter flying back from hamburg, germany, where the g20 summit had just happened. remember the news in that time was the president just had his first face-to-face meeting with vladimir putin. that was on the top of mind. as we later learned, there was also a lot of discussion happening on the flight about this statement. "the new york times" was going to report some details of that meeting that we've all been
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talking so much more about now, that july 2016 meeting at trump tower. and the reality here is that cnn reported a couple weeks ago that white house aides and others involved in that discussion about crafting that statement may be subjected to legal jeopardy here because they were discussing in realtime what was going on about that russian meeting but this is the first we're learning from this "washington post" report that the president dictated this. but it has a ring of the president trying to protect some other perhaps members of his family or others because the -- just the confines of air force one, it's pretty hard to believe the president would be dictating this without his son-in-law or daughter or anyone knowing about this. they essentially are flying together on this here. that's the question i have tonight. if the president was dictating this, as "the washington post" is reporting, who else was listening to that or involved in that. again, on a plane for probably eight or so hours that day we
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landed back at joint base andrews about 8:00 or so in the evening. so interesting now we're learning the president may have dictated that, anderson. certainly just one more example that everything seems to go back to russia in the investigation. >> jeff, what's interesting is that the president's attorneys have subconsequently come out and said the president didn't have anything to do with this. that statement was crafted by donald trump jr. and his attorneys. donald trump jr., or attorneys for donald trump jr. told our pamela brown that, in fact, they were ready and wanted to put out a more fullsome statement, i believe was their terminology, if memory serves me correct but that's not what end upped happening. i want to play what two people close to the president said at the time. jay sekulow and sarah huckabee sanders at one of the audio only briefings. let's play this. >> so he didn't have anything to do with the statement don junior
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put out that was being worked on with his team? >> the statement that don junior put out -- you talking about yesterday's? >> the one over the weekend that the president -- >> that was written -- no, that was written by donald trump jr. and i'm sure in consultation with his lawyer. >> because "the new york times" has reporting that the president okayed the statement. >> they're incorrect. >> "the new york times" is wrong. >> is that shocking that sometimes they make a mistake? >> has president trump had any communication with his son donald trump jr. over the last several days, and was he involved in helping donald trump jr. craft his statement to the press over the weekend on air force one as was reported in "the new york times"? >> i'm not sure about specific communications and the nature of those conversations. i know they've spoken at leefts some point over the last few days but beyond that i don't have any further details. i don't know the answer to that. >> so is that not true? >> i'm just telling you, i'm not sure. i don't know the answer. i'll have to check and let you
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know. >> kirsten powers, jeffrey toobin, bakari sellers. is this a potentially legal issue for the president? >> first of all, there is a dispute about the facts. there is this question of, whether the president was involved in drafting the statement. obviously "the washington post" said he did. jay sekulow in the earlier interview said he didn't. if he did draft the statement and if he knew at the time he drafted the statement that it was false, as the statement turned out to be, that definitely could be part of a legal problem for the president because even though it is not a crime to issue a false statement to the news media, it could be evidence of a pattern of obstruction of justice along with firing james comey and that
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is at the heart of the mueller investigation. so, obviously, the most important thing is to determine what happened here. did the president actually dictate this statement and did the president know it was false when he dictated it? but if he did dictate it, and if he knew it was false, you bet it could be part of a legal problem for him. >> right. the idea that he didn't know it was false would mean his son had told him something which was false. his son had told him this was just about adoption and that doesn't seem to jive with what attorneys, i believe it was, for donald trump jr. had told pamela brown that they were ready to put out a more robust, a more fullsome statement and that's what they initially had wanted to do. so the key -- one of the keys, jeff, for you and for any legal issue is, did the president know it was a misleading statement?
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>> absolutely. because it is not a crime or evidence of a crime to make a mistake. a good-faith error. if you say something and it turns out to be wrong, that is certainly not evidence of any sort of criminal intent. what makes it a potential problem is, if it's determined by a grand jury or by other fact finders that the president intentionally put out a false statement and that's a factual question that mueller will want to interview a lot of witnesses to determine where the truth lies. >> does it surprise you the president would get involved and that his advisers would allow him to get involved in something like this that exposes him? >> that's the first thing that you notice about this is this just is not something usually the president would be involved in. it would be exactly as you said. you'd protect the president from
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being involved in this. if for some reason the president was going to be involved or this is true for anybody in the white house, you would get all of the information. there wouldn't be just speculation about what happened. this was knowable. there were e-mails. so they would have gotten all the information, looked at what happened and made sure no statement went out that actually wasn't true. what it sort of suggests is that donald trump is involved in a lot of things that hie probably shouldn't be involved in. this is probably not the only time he's been dictating things. and i think that his impulse, and the story talked about how he views this as a political problem and not a legal problem. he's not getting the gravity of this and he thinks he can just push back the way he normally does and it will go away. he could be putting himself in legal peril. >> i think he probably does view a lot of this in a political light, not a legal light. he's not a lawyer, after all. he's had his own long career, long before this in plenty of episodes where he feels the best
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thing is to go out there and time ten the opposition. he views this whole episode as a quote/unquote witch hunt. so to see something like this, i'm just -- i don't know what went on. but, surely, he does see this stuff as just politics. >> there's a line in this story which sort of jumped right out at me towards the end. it says the president's legal team had planned to cast this june meeting as a potential setup by democratic operatives hoping to entrap trump junior and by extension, the presumptive republican nominee. so they already had, according to the post, they already had a cover story going. >> but there was a connection was there not with the gps? >> well, you can -- >> right? >> you can state that. it's not clear at all. in fact, it probably isn't true, but you can believe that. but what i'm saying is that they were going to say this was an
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entire setup and they decided instead to go with something else that also i believe was not the truth. i know you believe it, but -- >> and we have to remember how this meeting came to light inside. it was all threw jared kushner preparing to go testify before the house and the senate committees where this meeting re-emerged and came to light and the e-mail came to light. >> and kushner's attorneys realized early on it was going to be an issue. >> without a doubt. >> and is there in this story, the way this is reported out, huddle with ivanka and other aides. and jared kushner has his own legal expose are that he's concerned about here. there's something missing here. i'm missing a component to understand how it got from jared kushner is the one that found this meeting. they found the e-mail, know there's an e-mail detailing the pretense for the meeting and what is to be expected for the meeting and somehow the
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president, somehow the president is allowed to dictate a completely false statement like that? there's some piece that's missing. >> at that point, my understanding is that jared kushner already was aware of the e-mail chain. >> of the full story. >> of the full story that said this is for dirt on hillary clinton. >> at that point he had been presented with -- >> would he have told the president, there was this e-mail and the president still said let's go ahead and say it was about russian adoptions which, as we all know, russian adoptions, it's ending sanctions. >> so there are two things. one is something that jeffrey mentioned but we get this a lot when we talk about donald junior and the president of the united states. it's this standard. i have to go back to this standard often because jeffrey said he's not a lawyer so he's used to pushing back and sometimes falls into these legal perils or donald trump jr. is cast in this light that he's a bumbling idiot that can't get out of his way. that's awn fair bar to the
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presidency of the united states. first and foremoist. >> you think they should all be lawyers? >> they should be held to a standard of president of the united states and senior adviser. that's first. we have to look at this in a complete -- nothing happens in a vacuum. this is the end of a tumultuous week for the united states. with the addition of this breaking news, we have one of his worst weeks. i've been a part of all these stories. that doesn't mean this is the end of donald trump, this isn't the worst it can get. >> technically, this is the beginning of another tumultuous week. >> well, the 10 days. >> where you think a week begins. >> he started lambasting attorney general sessions. i think that was last monday. the week ended with reince priebus being fired and scaramucci today. >> you see the cleverness. we're not talking about jeff sessions anymore. >> very clever. >> we're going to have more and talk to matt lewis about this as well. also hear from one of the "washington post" reporters who broke the story. ♪
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well the breaking news tonight a report in the "washington post". the president himself dictated the misleading statement about donald trump jr.'s meeting with the russian lawyer. the "washington post" is reporting when the story first broke, the president's advisers wanted to tell the truth in case full details came out. but according the post the president decided to go a different direction. he dictated the statement claiming the meeting was about russian adoption. earlier i spoke with one of the reporters breaking the story tom hamburger. >> so the phrase dictate is one that my colleagues phil rucker and ashley parker who, as you know, cover the white house full-time, picked up from their sources. what we understand is that this was really a decision led by the president and that the statement that was ultimately issued is one that he decided and is often his way.
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you know he is not an emailer. he suggested the language in the statement that was ultimately used and ultimately released to "the new york times." and to a certain extent had to be walked back or amplified upon in the coming days. >> it's interesting -- i mean, it's not clear to me -- you know the president's attorneys i believe had previously said that it was donald trump jr. and donald trump jr.'s attorneys who had been the ones crafting the statement, that the president had nothing to do with and any denied the initial "new york times" story which said on air force one it had been discussed amongst advisers and the president signed off on it. the idea the president was more involved is something running counter to what the president's own attorneys have said. have you gotten any responses from the president's attorneys about your reporting and what their past statements snrp >> we did. we sent a long list of questions to jay sekulow, as you know is
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one of the president's attorneys, and perhaps the most outspoken. he didn't answer our specific questions but did issue one statement sentence to us which reads, the president's attorney said, apart from being of no consequence, the characterizations are misinformed, inaccurate and not pertinent. we went back and asked again for specifics. but didn't receive anything -- any guidance beyond that statement that i just read. up next we'll have -- or back now with the panel. i don't even know where to go with this. matt? >> i'm -- so i'm really interested in who the source is on this story. >> it seems to be multiple sources. >> so is general kelly i bet. that's one of the things donald trump hopefully for his own sake and for the sake of his administration this new hiring will help.
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to solve the leaks. something the mooch was also very interested in. who is the source? and -- >> but seriously, though, we keep coming back to this. is the major problem the person who tells this? the person who is distorting the truth and misleading the american public and you're president of the united states. >> well, it is interesting. it's an interesting point of also it would suggest that there are people who are trying to undermine the president, route? >> very close -- >> threes only one person -- >> there's only one person that looks really bad in this story. it's the president and everyone else is supposed to be the paragone of transparency here. everyone else is, we were trying to get everything out. >> but if you're working in a place where lies are common, why would you -- i mean, isn't that kind of environment an environment in which then you want to protect yourself or there's not a great sense of --
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it doesn't seem like a great sense of loyalty in this white house, is there? and i'm talking about it goes in all different directions. >> josh green was here, and he said that the morning he was on "new day" with chris cuomo talk with chris and scaramucci called in. while they're on the phone, he, josh, is getting texts from people inside the white house dissing scaramucci. i mean -- >> but with all -- >> in all fair oons. >> my point it's just the loyalty. you should never do that if you're in the white house. >> loyalty should come from the top down. scaramucci sold his company that, you know, was apparently very successful, went finally after being, you know, hung out to dry for quite awhile, got this gig at the white house communications dri s director fe president who was praising him for saying all these unflattering things about people on the staff just last week and then today -- >> help take out his chief of staff.
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>> and he's being escorted out of the white house. is that loyal? >> scaramucci did do something, though, also in that intervening time. i do think -- >> but that something was something the president apparently seemed to like or praised him for. >> he probably liked it initially but maybe realized later that it reflected badly on him. >> it was a fireable offense. >> what about jeff sessions? >> jeff sessions who endorsed them and he attacked on wait to ear. >> i think it's one way. >> also is executing his policy probably more efficiently than anybody else. >> this isn't so much a matter of disloyalty as it is a matter of protection. and it seems to me that you have lawyers here, you know, don jr.'s lawyer tells pamela brown and, you know, on july 23rd, we were ready to do a whole statement. this is gertting to what david was talking about. we were wanting to be transparent. the kushner lawyer says they were ready to do a whole transparent act on this.
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they wanted to get it out there. well, so what happened then? and if you're trying to protect your clients or sort of say, it wasn't me. no fingerprints on this, you do have some self-interest here in trying to establish how this all went down, even, in fact, to jeffrey's point, if it does involve the president of the united states. the question i would ask is, with all these smart people around knowing exactly what would occur, meaning that it would unravel at some point because these things always do. why wouldn't someone say to the president, you know, mr. president, we really can't do that. >> who on that plane, one, has the fortitude to say that to the president? >> maybe jared kushner because he knew the whole story? >> jared kushner has not been the moral compass of the white house either. >> why do you say that? >> jared kushner? >> yeah. >> the same person misleading the public about this russian adoption meeting from the
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beginning and these only transparent after -- >> it's not transparent if you come out after the lie is told. >> look, i mean, what this is, in listening to jeff toobin, even jeff toobin is saying, well, you know, this may not be such a big a deal here if this that and the other thing. this strikes me -- >> he said evidence of obstruction. >> if there's some sort of pattern. if alice in wonderland appears tomorrow if santa claus comes, this is already like one more rabbit hole. >> if only we had jeff toobin. oh, we do have jeff toobin. >> good, jeff, please. >> i knew i could bring you back. is that what you said? >> translation. >> i don't think it's quite accurate to what i said. >> say again. >> what i said was, if it could be established -- >> if it could be established. >> let him finish. >> let me finish. let me finish. we know, as for a fact at this point that the statement that
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was put out in donald trump jr.'s name was false. that's a pretty big hurdle to come across. so the only issue is, who wrote it and whether the person who wrote it knew it was false. now that's -- that hasn't been proven yet, but "the washington post" says it was the president who wrote it. presumably, they have some basis for writing that because "the washington post" is a respectable newspaper with an excellent record, especially on this particular subject. so i'm not -- i don't think i view this story -- i don't think it's accurate to say i view this story in any way exculpatory but it calls for more investigation and for people testifying under oath about how the statement was constructed and whether the people who knew that it was false were involved in making -- >> if you have people willing to leak to "the washington post"
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the details of what happened, those same people, when talking to a special counsel would probably tell the truth to the special counsel in order to protect themselves. i would assume. >> if they haven't already. >> a lot to -- >> well, i mean, i think it's always difficult to, you know, assume the motives or assume who told the truth or assume not. >> exactly. >> there are obviously a lot of internal rivalries here and resentments and certainly one of the -- speaking of possible sources for the story, one of the people on air force one happened to be reince priebus who was just fired in and disgraced and embarrassed and, you know, it would not be completely out of the question that he might go to "the washington post" and say, by the way, you know what went on. so it's not -- again, i don't know who the source was. >> they seem to have multiple sources. we've got to take a quick break. more breaking news.
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anthony scaramucci, the mooch out at communications director. what we know about what happened, next. pain i couldn't sleep and get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. on mi came across this housentry with water dripping from the ceiling. you never know when something like this will happen. so let the geico insurance agency help you with homeowners insurance and protect yourself from things like fire, theft, or in this case, water damage. cannonball! now if i had to guess, i'd say somewhere upstairs there's a broken pipe. let the geico insurance agency help you with homeowners insurance. call today to see how much you could save. ♪ ♪
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anthony scaramucci is no longer white house communications director after 11 days in the west wing. the new white house chief of staff, general john kelly, asked him to resign shortly after word came in scaramucci was out, sarah huckabee sanders gave a briefing and tried to answer questions about what happened and when and why. basic questions. here's what she said. >> he does not have a role at this time in the trump administration. and we put out a statement earlier announcing that. and i don't have much else to add. i'm not going to get into the process. anthony wants general kelly to be able to operate fully with a clean slate. build his own team while at the same time, the president felt his comments were inappropriate. anthony and general kelly also came to a mutual agreement and we're moving forward. look, we all serve at the pleasure of the president. i think that he wants to work with general kelly and a
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communications team that's intact right now and determine the best course forward. i don't think it's complicated to understand that the president felt the comments were inappropriate. i can't really explain it any further than that. >> that's not what she said last week which was essentially the president thinks healthy competition among apprentices is a good idea. >> funny how things change overnight. i think she's clearly in a tough position here, but what happened is that the new sheriff is in town, general, not a sheriff, came into town and said this is not sustainable. and made up his mind and went to the president and i was told that the president talked to some friends. and was asked their advice. friends -- i would say allies. asked their advice. did they think he ought to get rid of scaramucci and the answer was yes. and he did it. and i think this is the first
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ind indication. the days of tol raierating bs i this white house are over. >> trump has a lot of weird affinities for different things. but his sort of fetsish for military generals, he just loves, obviously, generals is maybe the one really good, of all his -- >> i would say respect as oppose to fetish. >> except mcmaster. >> of all his quirks his reverence and respect for military journals may be our saving grace. >> let's look at what sarah huckabee sanders said about the scaramucci comments. >> i don't know if he has an opinion on what they should do between the two of them. the president as always enjoys healthy competition and he sees that as such. >> not so much anymore, i guess. >> bob costa from "the washington post" tweeted out earlier that he heard that the people in the family, presumably
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jared and ivanka, maybe melania, had been very upset and thought this was embarrassing and reflected badly on the family and the crudeness of the way he was speaking in this interview. i guess it was a line they just felt shouldn't be crossed. so it could be that the president did like it and he heard from his family. no, this isn't going to fly. >> this is jared and ivanka were part of the push to bring scaramucci in. >> they reportedly brought him in in the hopes he'd get rid of reince priebus which, of course, happened. in the end, they got what they wanted. >> i'm a little cynical about all this horror in washington about this kind of thing and i worked there a good long while. >> you didn't talk like that, jeffrey. >> it's not the cursing. you know, everybody is an adult. it's more about what it says that he is -- was publicly bashing the chief of staff. that's not -- >> i agree. to me, having worked there, you don't trash your colleagues,
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period. that's it. >> well, but the president never said anything after he did, by the way. the president never tweeted anything and said, well, scaramucci doesn't represent me. he doesn't speak for me because the truth of the matter is he did represent what donald trump wanted. he did want to get rid of reince priebus. he wasn't happy with steve bannon. so he may not have liked the language, and i would presume in particularly women in that family were -- >> also very high profile of scaramucci. did that have an impact on the president himp being like, why is -- he's rising very fast? >> one of the rules that should always be operative in any white house is that staff members are seen but not heard. and i remember, we talked before about don regan versus jim baker. i remember seeing jim baker in situations with the president when i was in the campaign, not yet on the white house staff. jim baker hung out with the staff people. he wasn't right there elbow to elbow with the president. he never did any of that. by the time don regan got there,
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there were formal announcements. the chief of staff -- >> baker was the velvet hammer? >> i read that costa tweet or report as well and i just -- the level of hypocrisy that the trump administration and the trump family get away with has to be disconcerting as well because, you know, throughout the campaign trail, the level of vulgarity by which the president of the united states spoke out of his own mouth, whether or not it was a tape recording on a bus or anything else. if that wasn't your red line, but this is, that shows you -- >> you missed the other night when i found the cnn story from 2011 or 2010. the most foul-mouthed politicians. and the number one was barack obama. >> i don't think that obama would say -- while we're on this quote. the only time we've seen donald trump and this is a plug for my friend. the only way that donald trump
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had a message and actually had a messaging strategy was when jason miller was his communications director because he had somebody with a background, somebody with some experience and some knowledge on how to run a communications shop and maybe he might want to go back to that instead of grabbing some of your friends. >> he wasn't at the white house. >> that was the last time there was a strategy. >> but everybody has to agree on what the message is and that's the problem. they don't agree on the message. >> maybe they don't have to. >> they disgre on policy. competing power centers. >> even if the message is whatever the week is, infrastructure week, it's the president who doesn't agree on carrying that out because he's the one who -- >> it's american dream week this week. you know that. >> general kelly is going to come in and impose order. there's only one person that order needs to be imposed upon and that is the president. >> no, i don't think so. who else? >> all these staff members that are doing all this. that's order. >> what's he going to be, a
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private eye, sleuthing around, turning people's desk over? we talk about imposing order, we're talking about the fact this is a very chaotic white house and could there be some order in the way things are handled. but the chaos is coming from the president. >> if everything has to go through kelly, and it -- >> if the president wanted competing power centers. it's the president who wants people to have his ear. >> he'll be lonely if -- >> we'll take a quick break. >> we'll see if he likes this kind of order. mrks sarah huckabee sanders thought the president was making a joke when he asked them to be rough or suspects. not everyone thought it was funny, including the police department he was spoking to. we'll look at that ahead.
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we're three days out from the president's gang violence speech on long island. part of his remarks live on. some made it sound like the president endorsed and encouraged police brutality. >> and when you see these towns and these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddywagon, you just see them thrown in, rough, i said please don't be too nice.
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like when you guys put somebody in the car and you are protecting their head. the way you put their hand over -- like don't hit their head and they've just killed somebody. don't hit their head. i said you can take the hand away, okay? >> today sarah huckabee sanders was asked about that. she had this to say. >> was the president joking when he said this, or did he check his remarks out with the international association of police chiefs or maybe the attorney general? >> i believe he was making a joke at the time. >> back now with the panel. a lot of police organizations have come out and said we're not -- we don't rough up suspects and it's not a good idea. >> i have to say he's a new yorker standing in front of new yorkers. my whole family is from there. that's the way they talk. that's a new york -- >> eric gardner was from new york, too. he was choked to death by an illegal chokehold. police brutality is not funny.
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can you draw a line anywhere. >> we need to loosen up here a little bit. >> why? >> why? because we are becoming a humorless society. totally, totally -- >> jeffrey, i agree with that, and i think there's too much political correctness and -- >> that's the problem. >> i don't think this is somebody you joke about. >> you heard him. you heard the tone in his voice. >> he is the president of the united states who should have a moral authority. and his words should matter. he could be signaling to police officers -- >> no. >> he literally said don't be too -- >> come on. >> it's not the job of law enforcement to punish. you know, we have judges who decide what a punishment is going to be. that's not the job of law enforcement. >> even the president saying the person just murdered somebody. there's been no trial. what is he talking about? this isn't -- if he was joking, which i'm not convinced that he was, but if he was joking, it's
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just not funny to -- >> the whole audience laughed. you heard the -- >> the whole audience didn't laugh. some police officers applauded, which raises all sorts of questions. >> alarming. >> a number of police officers just stood there not applauding in the background. >> it's a major issue in the country right now that people are out in the streets protesting about. the fact that people are afraid of police officers and that he's joking about it. >> but if that is the case, which i don't give him credit for that. police brutality, eric gardner. walter scott, philando castile. they may have committed a crime but the penalty for that crime was not a death penalty by any stretch. we can talk about black and brown people and they don't get the benefit of their humanity when it mcomes to their interactions with law enforcement. being presidential. if, in neerkts was making a joke that was in bad taste, you know what would be presidential if he came out and apologized. how about just put a tweet out. >> or spoke about police
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brutality. >> he tweets about everything else. just tweet that my remarks were in bad taste. i apologize. >> this is how he hasn't, you know, changed from being a candidate to being president of the united states. this is the kind of thing -- >> let's go back further. but this is not just about how he hasn't changed from the candidate. this is about the same donald trump we talked about many nights who took out the op ed piece against the central park five. >> the other problem to this is that it also -- i think this makes it harder on all of us. white, black, police officers even -- >> it's insulting to police officers, the vast majority of whom are working incredibly hard to respect everybody's rights and doing incredibly -- >> and who train to exactly avoid those situations. >> we go in these communities. i travel to these communities with law enforcement officers. i was just in ferguson the other day. friday. in st. louis. talking about how he rebuild our communities and their trust for
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law enforcement. telling young black kids, telling young black kids it's okay to grow up and want to be in law enforcement so we have people in our communities that look like us. and comments like that, regardless of whether or not it's joking or not, it just makes that job so much more difficult. >> it's contributing to the polarization and the distrust from all sides of the different communities. >> i just, out in the countryside, i don't think people see it that way. he told a joke and move on. >> but it wasn't a joke -- >> the police departments didn'tee it that way. the suffolk police department said as a department we do not and will not tolerate roughing up passengers. >> but the real world reaction from the suffolk county police department we just heard. >> did it make you feel good that police officers are standing there applauding the yet of slamming a prisoner's head into the door? >> i don't think they thought that. >> and i think some of them were just carried away or nervous.
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>> what judgment do you have if you think that's a joke? it isn't good judgment. >> some may think it's a practice. that's the problem. we're talking about a system that's inherently broken and we see -- and the rein people are in the streets is because when you're trying to change the system and then see the leader of the free world at the top of the system echoing some of the same fundamental problems that make it broken, that is so disheartening. when we come back, the fallout from the big health care vote last week. now republicans and democrats alike are asking what comes next? hey! you know, progressive is america's number-one motorcycle insurer. yeah, she does purr! best bike i ever owned! no, you're never alone, because our claims reps are available 24/7. we even cover accessories and custom parts. we diget an early start! took the kids to soccer practice. you want me to jump that cactus? all right. aah! that lady's awesome.
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of more than 15 key nutrients. one a day 50+. my abwill i have pain andating made daibloating today?ing game. my doctor recommended ibgard to manage my ibs. take control. ask your doctor about nonprescription ibgard. it may seem the senate gop attempts to repeal obamacare was weeks ago but we're just a week out. they'll most likely need to work across the aisle with democrats. earlier today i spoke to bill cassidy about the chances of that happening. senator, you have another health care bill proposal you've been working on with lindsey graham. did secretary price or anyone in the trump administration say today that you would have the support of the white house on it? >> so today, i think you're >> i think you were referring to the meeting we had today. and i think it's better to say
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it was a listening meeting with governors. by the way there is an article that shows the number one driver of people enrolled in the obamacare system, if you will, was based upon governors, their leadership. this is a listening system as to what governors would need. how does washington meet the needs of the governor to help the governor meet the needs of the people in their state. >> what are you looking at? block grants to the states to allow governors greater power and figure out how insurance is done in their state? >> yeah, flexible block grants if you will. based upon the temporary assistance to needy families that reformed welfare that really did a lot to both modernize the program, but to improve the situation of the families who are in the program. so similarly if the states are given this flexible block grant, the governors can then approve it. then we can get there. >> there is a group of about 40
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republicans and democrats calling themselves the problem solvers caucus. they have a plan to fix parts of obamacare and hope it gets support. their plan hasn't been released yet. in theory could you support something like that if repeal and replace isn't possible? >> i haven't looked at their plan in detail yet, so it's hard or the me to comment. if it's something that moves the ball forward, i'll be for that. i do think there are internal contradictions within the affordable care act that makes it hard to sustain long-term. >> if this is something that cannot get through congress, as we have seen this far, and the president is saying let obamacare fail, is letting the present system fail something that would be acceptable to you in any way? >> so the simple answer is no. but let's just say he is speaking specifically of the individual market, which is only 4% of those who are insured. it doesn't involve medicare. right now it would not involve medicaid. employer sponsored insurance, all that is off the table. it is only the individual market that would be affected. but i am just concerned about
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those in the individual market as in every other market. i would not want any of it to fail. >> the president this weekend tweeted, quote, unless the senators are total quitters or repeal and replace is not dead, demand a vote before any other bill. mitch mcconnell said it was, quote, time to move on from health care. which is it? >> clearly you need at least one of three senators to change their mind, assuming that no other senator did change their mind. i'll just go back to one, i think we need a fresh perspective. there needs to be fresh momentum. and i think the better perspective than washington, d.c. looking across the country to decide what to do next is to ask the governors of our states what they would do next. >> senator cassidy, eappreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> and let's bring in the panel for a couple of minutes. is the idea of repeal and replace, it is dead for republicans? >> well, if you listen to this senator, no. i think that he is trying along with lindsey graham to kind of
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revive something and start fresh. i think it's -- the differences remain. the smart thing i think that he was really saying is get the governors on board first. >> which is something governor kasich has been talking about all along. >> exactly. if you can get the governors on board, their senators might be with you. because the governors are the one who really have to deal with medicaid and understand the importance of it to their constituents in their states. so they're going to try to give it another shot. but i can't predict at all what would happen. >> as appalled as i was at senator mccain, he will say i think i heard him talk a lot about what his governor in arizona was saying about this. and so i do think that that's probably the key. i mean, one of the things that i think the trump folks that like him like a lot is that he is relentless. he never takes no for an answer. he just keeps going back and back and back. if there ever there is an issue that needs to have that attitude, it's this one.
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>> you mean donald trump keeps going back and back. >> yeah. >> he does not unfortunately for him control the calendar on the floor of the united states senate. >> no, no, right. >> and does not at all sound like mitch mcconnell think there's is -- >> he said it was time to move on. >> to try this one more time. but i do think, yes, of course it makes sense to bring in the governors first. it would make sense to work with the health insurance companies and work with the doctors groups and work. to me this reflects just how little the white house did and how little president trump did in getting all the stakeholders to try and actually move forward. >> if i may make a suggestion as well, we talked about working with governors, the stakeholder groups. you may also want to try working with democrats. democrats want to fix the affordable care act as well. no one was on board with repeal and replace. but when you're talking about having a menu for services because apparently the health care field is the only field that you know where you can go in and you don't know how much it is what you're purchasing, that idea or cost containment or prescription drug prices.
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>> savings account. >> democrats are on board with trying to fix the affordable care act. so why not start there? and there are ideas to do it. >> but now you the president and sort of veiled threats, threatening to shut down the subsidies to insurance companies, take the money from insurance companies, and that would hurt a lot of people. whether that's what he thinks would drive people back to the table remains to be seen. but it won't. >> but it won't. because in ohio today you had more insurers filling out the market in these counties where you only had one provider or no providers. what you're saying is the affordable care act is not going to die. contrary to the popular belief the aetna ceo is not in a death spiral. and what these governors realize is how important medicaid is to their respective state. >> you don't want to put everybody in your state on medicaid do, you? >> what you talking about? no! but we are trying to make sure we have a healthy insurance program for those who are poor. >> all i'm saying politically speaking is obamacare got us to this point, right? this problem exists because
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obamacare changed the health care system. so to the extent that it is collapsing, and it is collapsing, i mean there is no question about this. >> that's not true. >> is absolutely correct. >> what problem? >> 20 million people without insurance is a big problem. >> just got us to this place with this problem. >> we have this problem -- >> what is the problem? >> obamacare is collapsing, right? >> so obamacare -- that doesn't really make sense. >> sure it does. if you push forward a law that winds up collapsing, it's the law's fault. >> it's not actually collapsing. >> that's not true. >> there are areas where it needs to be improved. >> but why? if the law was perfect, why? >> no one ever said the law was perfect. >> yes, they did. >> you're fighting against something that never happened. no one ever said the law was perfect and people realized there are areas that need to be tweaked which is a totally normal thing. >> we've got to take a break. we'll be right back. 2 miles, that's a marathon.
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that's all the time we have for tonight. thanks very much for watching "360." i'll see you again tomorrow night at 8:00. a special edition of "the lead" with jake tapper starts now. have a good night. so how did the first day of the white house's american dream week go? "the lead" starts right now. president trump says there is no chaos in his white house, right before more chaos erupts. anthony scaramucci is out before he even started officially as white house communications director. so what in the blanking blank happened? also breaking, "the washington post" with a potential bombshell. was donald trump jr.'s initial misleading response to his meeting with the russians actually trump sr.'s response? plus -- a lead exclusive. white house officials pumped by an e-mail prankster. do the silly e-mails expose a much bigger security risk that could potentially impact you?