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. the president stepped up and made it worse in everyone's opinions except the white supremacists. all week we've seen people backing away from the president. and the idea that nazis and those protesting against them are equal in any way. corporate ceos, artists, tonight, the first member of his evangelical advisory board. and billionaire investor carl icahn, who the president dropped during his campaign like a kid at a cast party, all backing away from this president. we've seen republican lawmakers slowly by steadily increasing criticism. here is the latest tally on your screen of all the people who called out the president by party, by name. mitt romney, scolding him, not a surprise perhaps, but military commanders rebuking the president. from the joint chiefs of staef implicitly rebuking the president. that is a major surprise. and today on top of it all and perhaps in a matter more of convenience than coincidence,

the president fired his chief strategist, steve bannon. take a look at this picture, first it was michael flynn, then sean spicer, then reince priebus, then the meteoric rise and fall of anthony scaramucci, the mooch. now finally, mr. bannon as the president called him the other day, mr. bannon gone. and we're being told more heads could roll, perhaps talking head sebastian gorka, dr. gorkha to you and me. while firing bannon has shifted focus away from the flames of hate the president helped to fan, the relief may be short-lived. bannon is already back at his old website, breitbart, and apparently trying to sever trump's ties to his all important base. one of the cronies at breitbart for bannonweeting th wd "war." bannon telling the weekly standard the presidency that he and donald trump fought for and won is now over. think of that. all right, a lot to cover.

and to talk about so let's bring in cnn's jim acosta joining us first with the very latest for the president's vacation spot in new jersey. jim, what are we finding out about the timing here, how this went down with bannon? >> well, chris it was alt-right, stage left you might say for steve bannon. from what we understand from talking to our source, this has been building for some time. according to sources i talked to earlier today, steve bannon was supposed to be fired a coupe of weeks ago, and that did not happen. he was given a chance to resign, which apparently he took the opportunity to do. but make no mistake, he was forced out. he was fired "the apprentice" style by the president by the president and chief of staff john kelly. a couple of reasons why this was. this has been building for some time. this is not the first time that steve bannon had been rumored to be on the chopping block. the president had fallen out of love with steve bannon a while ago. he was concerned about bannon appearing on the cover of "time"

magazine, being lampooned on "saturday night live," stealing the limelight and sucking up a lot of the oxygen in washington. but i think more critically, chris, the new chief of staff john kelly wanted to put in place a much more disciplined, a much more orderly power structure inside the white house. and from what i understand talking to sources, steve bannon was just not going to survive in that world. as we saw in this last week, he was doing interviews, granting interviews with journalists, and sort of freelancing, putting his own agenda out there, really, in front of the president's. and from what we understand, that was just not going to fly in john kelly's new world, and there may be other heads rolling on the horizon here, chris. >> so the article where the -- where steve bannon said that there is no military solution for north korea, that was seen as a little bit of a okay, one step too far. forget about the timing. he has to go right now. interestingly, are you also hearing that this is significant because of what it is not about, that this is not about

charlottville, virginia. that what happened and what was said by the president was all of his own that wasn't bannon engineered and the reason for his exit. true? >> well, make no mistake. this did certainly change the news cycle today. when the president was called out essentially by the mother of heather heyer on morning television today, when the mother of heather heyer is saying i will not speak to the president, this was going to be a devastating news cycle for the white house today, forcing steve bannon out that certainly did change the narrative. it certainly did change the news cycle. i mean, one of the things that we're hearing is whether or not steve bannon and breitbart are going to go to war against this white house. earlier today, you saw that one editor for breitbart was joel pollack was tweeting that, you know, it was going to be #war. and i talked to a source who talked to bannon earlier today, he said no, no, no, wait a minute, i'm going to be going to war with this president for this

white house. he does not want the see president trump fail, according to a source who spoke to steve bannon. but make no mistake. if they see -- if breitbart sees, and bannon sees this white house moving in a more moderate direction, you know you might see some of these hostilities resume. >> all right, jim acosta, thank you very much. appreciate it. let's bring in the panel. we have tonight a great group of minds to put to this matter. you've got josh green, author of devils bargain. steve bannon, donald trump and the storming of the presidency. also with us kristen powers, joseph pinion, alice stewart and ryan lizza. all right, josh, we've got to get to why this happened. man, there are so many competing narratives. i'm sure all of our devices have been buzzing like crazy about this. what is speaking out about right now subject to what you're about to tell me is bannon telling a writer for the weekly standard that the presidency that i fought for with donald trump that we won is now over. that what he was saying to you? >> basically, yes. he told me, and take this with a

grain of salt, given the source, that this was not a firing. this had been in the works for a while. that he was thinking about leaving a week or two ago. delayed it because othe charlottesville uproar. this is something that had been agreed to both with chief of staff john kelly, discussed with the president, and it was clear bannon told me that he is leaving on amicable terms, and he is going outside to wage war for trump and not against trump. >> amicable terms, presidency is over. mutually agreed when we will leave. war. which way do you see it? >> i'm sort of interested in your take on this by what he means of that. does he mean he is going to go out -- it seemed to me the criticism was really not of donald trump, but of the republicans. that's sort of the way uwas reading it. and he is saying the presidency is over because the republicans will not do what donald trump wants them to do and because they're too moderate. >> he didn't use that specific

phrase. that's exactly the idea he was pushing forward. we have taken hit the far. we won the presidency. trump's agenda is not moving forward in quite the way we like. so i'm going to go fight on his behalf on the outside. he specified who it was he was going to go to war against. it was establishment politicians. i think by that, he meant republican leaders in congress. it was the opposition party in the media, as bannon likes to refer to us. and it was corporate america too. who trump and bannon feel have betrayed donald trump. >> here is part of the confusion. this is one of the problems with having an unknown political entity. because donald trump came into this without a set of core beliefs where you know well, if he says this, this is him. and if he says this, this is him compromising for a party or platform or whatever it is. to you, when you hear about all this, joseph, what does it mean to you in whether or not this administration is going to keep its connection to the populism that made it popular? >> well, i think there has

always been this assumption that donald trump has been playing some type of wizardly three dimensional chess. i think that is probably incorrect at this point. i think that the reality that has kind of been thrust upon us is we have been playing three dimensional chess on behalf of donald trump. that you he these assumptions based onhater your leanings are that it is jared and ivanka who are going to pull him away interest the populist message, even though is literally zero evidence of that fact. and you also have in people who can draw a direct line from everything they hate about donald trump and connect that to steve bannon and say that he is the reason why we have all these policies being shoved down our throat that we don't like, or on the other side, that he is the reason that we have all these policies that we do like. so i think at this juncture now, i think for better and for worse, the curtain has been drawn back. and we are forced to see now in many ways in stark terms that as

we've said before, there is literally nobody who can force this president to do anything he does not want to do. he is a force of nature unto himself, for better and for worse. and i think on some level, he might have exposed himself with the firing of bannon. because at this point, for the first time possibly in his entire life, the buck has to stop with him. and there will be no one else to point the finger at but him. because as we saw in that picture -- >> well, he has fired, alice, most of the people who have served him in that purpose. whose fault is it if it is not your own? how do you see this in terms of the implications to the president and his administration? >> well, with regard to the populist nationalist agenda, and economic nationalist agenda, bannon and trump were soldier in arms in this. and they still believe strong in immigration, strong on fighting for the working man. those policies in my view will continue through donald trump. >> why the confidence? >> why the what? >> why the confidence that the president on his own will motive

that agenda when we haven't seen that from him unilaterally to this point? >> look where he stands on immigration. he is certainly strong in immigration. building the wall in mexico. >> we don't know that that's going to raise wages for the working man. that's what i'm wondering. >> clearly he tapped into something in this country, his ability to connect with the working man. >> absolutely. >> and i think bannon lit the torch and carried the torch. trump will continue to do. so the question is who is he going to war with? there is a lot of talk it is obviously the estlishment republican. but some refer to the white house democrats, jared and ivanka and gary cohen and dina powell and those. and bannon from the outside will make sure he holds his feet to the fire. i think what this departure means, two things. one man carries the spotlight in the white house that is the president there is a new usheriff in town and that is chief of staff kelly. >> i asked about the west wing, democrats in effect used precisely that term, and he would not engage with that

question. he wouldn't answer and take shots at gary cohen or jared or ivanka. clearly this is something that was on his mind. i think he was trying to exit in a dignified fashion that wouldn't be looked at as a food fight that is something i would think a lot about if i was working the west wing. bannon on the outside is going to come after some of these people. >> now you have the big problem. the big problem has always been well, what happens if you put bannon on the outside? his connection to the base, having this mouthpiece in breitbart, having someone whose heard countless conversations and intimate moments of the president. now you have him maybe ryan lizza against you. >> if you read the interview with the weekly standard by peter boyer, he is 100% clear that his version of trumpism is dead, that the populist nationalist agenda has been stymied. he sort of personalized this whole thing. and he says very clearly that he is going to breitbart to wage war against the people and discussions that stopped it in its track. it's as clear as day.

frankly, he was very clear in talking to journalists for months about that war inside the white house. i visited him in his office a few months ago. he threw udown a copy of the financial times. he said look at this front page story. the front page story was war in the oval office. bannon very gary cohen. he wanted me to see that this is the war that is happening in the administration. and so he is now going the take that battle outside, and he always viewed himself as being surrounded by these concentric circles of enemies. they were the so-called globalists in the west wing. then it was the enemy in the media, us. and then it was the republican establishment on capitol hill. and then it was the business community. he used to joke the democrats, he didn't even have time to fight the democrats because he was fighting so many people inside the white house and inside the larger republican coalition. and that's the fight he is going to take now. >> now,uke we saw on the movie "star wars" way back in the day you have struck him down, but he may come back stronger than he ever was before. and we're going to are to see.

let's leave this right here for right. now we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, we have david gergen. he has seen his share of successful and unsuccessful presidents up close. and what is the difference between this transition from going through a hard time and making it into a better time? and later, we're going to have a defender of the president on this west wing democrat situation that they have going on, that ryan and josh and alice were talking about. how big a deal is this? how potent can steve bannon be on the outside? all that ahead on "360." yeah, well it was $30 before my fees, like the dog-sitting fee... and the rummage through your closet fee. who is she, verizon? are those my heels? yeah! yeah, we're the same size...in shoes. with t-mobile taxes and fees are already included, so you get four lines of unlimited for just $40 bucks each. and now get zero down on the hottest smart phone brands like samsung galaxy. more reasons why t-mobile is america's best unlimited network.

all right. steve bannon has been fired. but he has different word for it, free. he told the weekly standard that he has his hands back on his weapons, mainly breitbart news, which could make the next few weeks even more interesting as breitbart prepares to go to #war, as one editor there put it today. and as white house chief of staff kelly prepares we're told to keep swinging the ax. what will that mean? what kind of discipline does he want to bring to the white house? there is no shortage of drama. and the question is, does it leave any room, any space at all for governing, for putting in place the agenda that supposedly put the president there? joining us is someone whose got literally decade after decade of west wing experience. our senior political analyst david gergen. it is a blessing to have you tonight.

>> thank you, chris. it's a blessing to have you here. thank you. >> so let me engage one curiosity that i have on this. the timing, david. >> sure. >> the timing, it just seems too convenient to just be a coincidence. i've heard all these competing narratives. i'm sure you've heard as many and more. when you look at the timing of this, why this happened now, what are your suspicions? >> oh, i think it's obvious that he -- they're trying to veer away from the charlottesville story to a new story. and get us all the whole question of, you know, racial hatred and division that tuesday was such a disaster for the president, and they want to change us. i do find it strange, bizarre, even, that we have not heard a single word from donald trump today. how can a man -- how can a president who has had someone at his side, who helped him win election, upset victory as le did, he has been with him for a

year, not each have the graciousness to thank him? with a perfunctory written note. i find it strange. so it suggest there's is some real animosity here that we don't know the full story yet. look, i also think that very important to this that the role that steve bannon is choosing for himself could make him more powerful on the outside and could cause enormous problems for the president because he can begin to split the republican party apart. his role as he sees it, if the president can't persuade people, he'll come in and pressure them. the old saying, if you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. well, he is going to be the heat. and he is going to go after establishment republicans on capitol hill if they don't go along with the populist agenda. he is going to go after ceos. he is going to go after cnn we know. and that could be very destructive. if he goes after the conservative establishment in

the republican party as he is viewing to do, going after mitch mcconnell, it's going to make it much harder for the president to keep his base intact. and indeed, to round up all the republican votes he is going to need on the legislation ahead. >> so what was the calculus here in terms of what's the greater threat? what bannon is doing in house or was doing in house, chasing after mcmaster, seeing what kind of leverage he could get over jared and ivanka and making some enemies in-house, or now being uncontrollable on the outside? >> well, that's a good question. i think the calculus actually came down to do i keep kelly or do i keep bannon. it's very clear kelly would not have stayed long had he not been able to get bannon out of there. he had a mandate from the president agreed to in the beginning that he could clean house. and i'm sure kelly would have gone to the president and said it's either him or me. you can't have us both because it's not working. i think that was the main

calculus. i keep wondering too, chris, you can't help this being washington, is bannon also out there to begin discrediting in a more serious way the whole mueller team? is he going to be the person -- he's going have coming in, as we know from mr. mercer. anderce m has put in almost $10 million into breitbart in the past. he going to have some money to do things. >> and a lot of his own money also. this is not a man of no means. he doesn't have the kpij genera exigency that most people who love the white house have to take care of their family, they have to make money. the idea of fixing general kelly is there, he will fix. he is disciplined. he is respected. we see the president has not an iota in terms of the behaviors that have been counterproductive. what do you make of the prospect of fixing at this point? >> prospect of fixing donald

trump is extraordinarily low. somewhere between about 5% and zero. look, he is who he is who he is. and he made it very clear, he was not programmed by steve bannon when he went out there tuesday. that was pure donald trump. and i think the issue becomes as with all presidents, as you know so well, chris, everybody takes their cues off the president. what does the president really believe and they take there cues off of that? we know that donald trump -- i talked to senator corker raised the right kind of question yesterday asking about his emotional and mental stability. >> all right, david, appreciate it very much. >> thanks, chris. >> let's turn your thoughts to the panel. all right, so when we hear david gergen there, he knows how it goes and what the challenges are. he says, alice, between 5% and 0% of change. so you're saying i got a chance, that he has a chance to make some change.

that prospect looms large. you can fire as many people as you want. you are the person motivating all the action. it begins and it ends with you. it doesn't matter whom you fire. how do you see it in terms of that? >> clearly general kelly has been instrumental in righting the ship, plugging some leaks and making changes he feels will instill discipline and in order the white house. but david mentioned, as you say, the elephantn the room is always going to be trump in his twitter, in his inability to stay on message. i think that is the key moving forward. we do have some. kellyanne conway will be strong, as she always has been on keeping him on the conservative message and fighting for things that a lot of the base stand di the trump administration with when it comes to life and family and those issues. but i think the key will always be keeping donald trump on message and off twitter, which general kelly is great, but he is not a magician. >> but wasn't donald trump supposed to be this great manager, businessman who knows how to run things and pick great

people. >> make deals. >> and he has now fire ed most his inner circle. what does that say about him that these are the people he chose and were the best people. and we're six months into his administration, and he has already gotten rid of the bulk of the people who were advising him. so -- >> well oiled machine. parts now have been removed. >> he was this great business guy with this eye for talent. >> there are some supporters of the president who are out there saying, well, you know, this happens. you have shake-ups. . no no. we have not seen anything like this, at least in recent history. >> this kind of interpersonal drama also, right? this constant drama. >> you don't get this much firing on a season of "the apprentice." he has gone through most of the senior staff at this point. >> what is the net effect of that, joseph, in terms of confidence in the ability of the president to get the job done? >> i think that you see the slow -- again, emphasis on slow chipping away at the republican

base as far as his support. so i think one of the most striking things that we had this week was the vice media piece where you had the individual saying i wanted to vote for somebody like donald trump, but more racist. and i think that once you get past that striking part of what he said, i think it really aptly applies to the majority of the people who went into a ballot booth and voted for donald trump. >> you know what? listen. there is no question that there are people in what you call the hate, the alt-right or the hate parade who have attached themselves to trump for good and bad reasons. but uthere are a lot of working class people who believe he might be a ticket to something better. because givenp on the system. my question is with bannon out, alice, who is that connection that conservative connection to the base with bannon gone? >> great question. speaking with a lot of conservatives i've respond with today and in the last few days, bannon really helped to energize the disaffected republicans and people a -- a lot of obama

voters who feel like they didn't have a voice in the white house. they wanted someone to go in and drain the swamp. a lot of the conservatives are looking to kellyanne conway to be the gateway to the president. and she is ready and willing and able to step up and do just that. so there is a great whether we're talking social conservatives or the gop establishment, she is they can go to. >> kellyanne had it the way bannon has it, then you wouldn't have needed bannon. because there was a lot of baggage to come in with him, right? it was controversial to bring him in. the intensity of his connection to that base is not to be rivaled within the remaining people there, i don't think, right? >> let me make a prediction. you think his tie to the conservative base is still going to be steve bannon. trump is famous for firing people and still calling them up and soliciting their opinions. he did it with corey lewandowski. given the fact that bannon seems to have left on amicable terms with the president himself -- >> why would you say that?

>> because of the statement. because of the interview i had with bannon. because he said i'm going to war for trump, not against him. >> the president not coming out, as david gergen pointed out, not saying something gracious, not saying anything at all? >> the president is clearly unhappy. but bannon also has a project here, and that is to institute his nationalist policies. whether trump is the guy who does that or not, i think he is smart enough to know you're never going to have another president as willing to listen to steve bannon as this one circumstances ryan liz. >> ryan lizza? >> he had very strong ideological views in a way that very few people around trump have. right? he had very well thought out views about how you deal with china. he had very well thought out view aut interventionism abroad. he was vehemently oh oposed to the strike on syria. he has very serious views on trade, on immigration. and there doesn't seem to me -- even kellyanne conway who is probably the most conservative person around trump now but was

a pollster and a message person and not as much as an ideologue and not from this nationalist populist wing of the republican party. >> you're forgetting about one person. mike pence. >> fair point. >> he doesn't represent bannon. >> he is certainly an ideologue and conservative. it's interesting he is still there. >> he is part of that more traditional slate of identity politics that has been replaced by a new one. >> right. >> let's remember. what's the greatest evidence of bannon's impact. this is not who donald trump was before. he did not hold these views when he was here in new york as a big real estate developer. they are all newfound for him. in his decision to become president of the united states. so let's leave this part of the discussion right now. we're going to take a break. when we come back, we're going to dig deeper into this question of the base that we've been touching on here. steve bannon's claim is that, look, i know these people. i brought the ideas to donald trump. i made him president, and now that is over.

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all right. for all the unknowns about steve bannon being out of the white house, let there be no mystery about what he'll do next. he is going right back to what he knows best, breitbart, the website he once described as a platform for the alt-right. after being fired, bannon is going to be there. he sounds pretty happy about it. he told the weekly standard, quote, now uam free. i've got my hands back on my weapon. someone said it's bannon the

barbarian, and i'm definitely going rush the the opposition there is no doubt i built a boobeep man at bite bart. joining us ed martin, author of "the conservative case for trump." ed, thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you, chris. thank you. >> so mr. bannon says, as the president calls him, the presidency that he won with trump is over. what does that mean to you? does that mean that the ability to motive the agenda for the working man and woman that was promised dies with bannon's exit? >> you know, i saw that quote. udon't really know what that means, except i do know that steve also a real provocateur. and i think he exited stage left or west wing left in a way that was dramatic and is getting lots of attention. he convened. he was on the editorial call tonight. everyone is talking about it for breitbart. i don't know what me he means. let me say something, chris, if you don't mind, on what trump

and bannon did. remember, you guys are talking about staff. general sessions is the most conservative guy that we've known for the base. guys like me, stephen miller is a fearless conservative guy. ben carson. in other words, the people that are still in this administration. pruitt, scott peru bruitt. when you think about the hard-ce gals and conservatives, trump and bannon did that. now that bannon son the outside, you're going to see that agenda that bannon cares about going forward. i see it as the trump agenda. i don't see it as nation has shifted. >> the problem with the theory is this is not who trump was before, before this incarnation as a presidential candidate, and now president of the united states. these were not policies that he hammered on when he had plenty of opportunity to the way a steve bannon did. so where does your confidence come from that he'll continue to do the things that he hasn't been able to do yet? >> well, you know, bannon only emerged on the really

conservative what i think of the populist conservative scene in the last ten years or so. i disagree a little bit. i think trump has spoken about immigration and trade and about american being broken in terms of competitiveness. let me say something really clear to you. you know this, chris. in politics, politicians change their positions and their stripes. and it's really what have you done for us in office? and again, gorsuch and judges, china in a different relationship, pruitt cutting regulations in epa, he has delivered on a conservative agenda, whether he was 30 years ago, that's not in politics, that doesn't matter so much as what are you doing today. and i don't see bannon being gone. >> the base can't be satisfied. they just can't. i know if you put to it them in a poll question, i grew up reading and writing poll questions. i get the finesse. and obviously in a binary situation of for trump or against trump, the base and many people in the party are going to go for trump. but in terms of why he got in there, shake it up, be

disruptive. the only thing that has really been disruptive so far is the president himself. it hasn't benefitted him yet. and then there is the working man and woman's agenda. you're going bring back jobs, manufacturing will come back. coal will come back. our wages will rise. and we're not seeing not just any proof of it, we're not seeing any sign of a plan for it. >> well, but chris, i'm out in missouri. we do work across the country with my organization. the aricairst agenda is a lot about the psychology of believing in america again. and i really do see that. i think standing up to china, standing up to north korea, i'm not saying it's all perfect. i'm not saying that it doesn't feel odd to people that watch it and how it works out. it's not all linear. the other thing i would say about this, chris, that no one is paying attention to. trump is the most successful president. access to believe the people. they hear and see what he is about. he is not also always perfect. in the media he is tweeting and doing press conferences.

>> doing what you're doing right now, ed. speaking unilaterally is one thing. being tested on your principles and positions so the american people can make an informed decision about you is very different. >> okay. i'll leave that tao you. but what i'm saying, when it comes to result, again, look at neil gorsuch. the judges, no one is covering this too much right now. the number of judges appointed. i mean, the america first immigration, it's way down. and for lots of us, that's the biggest transformation of both parties to have people be against -- the guy running for democrat for president, delaney said he himself is worried about immigration taking jobs. i don't think he is against amnesty. but my point is trump shifted that. >> a little bit of a talk point boogie man there. the idea that illegal immigrants are what is keeping back the american man and women. you know those aren't the jobs that are mattering to working class america. you know that's not the problem for working class america. >> no. no, chris, it's not only the jobs they take. its amount of cost of them being

this the welfare system, in the education system, and the transformation. they're not assimilating. the cuomo family is famous for being the great italian american family in new york that assimilated. mario cuomo, this is a different set of ways we're living when 20 million, 30 million people are coming in faster. that's not a boogie man. they're coming here because they're desperate for a better way of life. >> right. >> for their families. and they are not taking the jobs that the workingmen and women need. they are not keeping wages down for the workingmen and women of america. it's just not true economically. they may cause other problems. they may be drains on the system. you can disagree. the data doesn't support your disagreement. >> well, i think the data on the wages down. i don't think anyone would say introducing a large number of workers into a workforce doesn't change the wage levels. >> you to see where they're going. picking apples and tomatoes is not the same as wanting to be a

factory worker. there are different price point, different skill levels. different wage levels. >> but straining the system and transforming how we're living is what americans voted for an america first agenda. again, you're talking about conservative principles that we are arguing for. we did that. the immigration is going down. we're having a conversation about no amnesty. you notice that the republican party, some of the guys that are objecting to trump's handling of charlottesville, graham, for example, are guys that's one of his number one issues. my point is trump's agenda, his agenda, america first, is working whether you like it or not, he is more competent than everybody admits. and steve bannon was a big part of that. and carson and pruitt and the er next two or three supreme court justices will all be part of that agenda. >> we will see who can keep the president on message or help him keep himself on message and get these things done that he promised the american people. ed martin, thank you for joining

the show tonight. appreciate it. >> thanks, chris. all right. coming up, it's getting to the point where jared kushner and ivanka trump are the last ones standing in the president's inner circle, and they're family. so the question is where are they right now? only during crabfest. now this is seafood. and hurry in to enjoy our new crab melt part of our seafood lover's lunch for just $9.99.

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steve bannon is out. is that a surprise? yes. you know what's an even bigger surprise? that we didn't hear about it right away. the fact that this may have been kept secret, whether it was one day or a few days is amazing, given what a sieve this white house has been. so what does that tell us about the state of play this well, we do know that bannon was not getting along with jared kushner, and that he was going after h.r. mcmaster, and that these were problems. if these people had been at odds while bannon was in the white house, what is it going to mean when they get on the outside and bannon has to have a relationship with them? cnn's gloria borger is reporting tonight bannon's ouster has kushners a fingerprints all over .

that's something steve bannon would probably know. let's bring back the panel and talk about the fact that kushner and his wife ivanka who are allegedly two guiding presences to this president, how could they not be, they have been completely absent during this world week, which i think is somewhat understandable given the fact that they are you haves, and this is almost an indefensible person for a jewish person to take on. so they laid low. but if it's true, kerstin, that jared was against him the whole time because bannon was trying to put a move on him from early on and have more leverage, what does it mean about who this war is going to be against? if that were tweeted by one of bannon's people, war and the presidency being over isn't how he feels about the president. it can't be good for jared kushner. >> i don't think so. i think for jared or ivanka or for dina powell or gary cone or any of the people that are viewed by steve bannon and by the breitbart crew as being the barrier to donald trump. >> what can he do? >> he has been this the white house when he was on the

campaign. i'm assuming he has a lot of information about these people, right? now he is in a position if he wants to go after them. now the question is does that alienate trump? you know this better. because you know bannon better. it doesn't seem like he wants to alienate trump. >> i think that's precisely the division bannon was trying to make. i'm not going to go the war against trump. i'm going to war with people in his orbit that bannon feels prohibit trump from pursuing his national agenda. it is clear that was one of the people he was talking about. >> steve bannon hates jared kushner. he hates ivanka. let's be 100% clear about that. he hates gary cohen. he has enemies. his entire life has been finding opponents and going after them as hard as he could. he did it at breitbart with the republican establishment. >> put some meet on the bones of what is thes by of this animus? it is personal? >> his view is ever since

election day, he believes that all of these people started rushing in to the trump orbit during the transition -- ceos, advisers tha had democratic backgrounds, establishment republicans. all of the sudden steve bannon was running this tiny little campaign that against all odds beat hillary clinton. it had a well defined ideology that was thanks to him. and then all of the sudden there was a hostile takeover by all of these other forces. and his job since the day after the election was to keep them at bay. they have now won that war, handy is out on the outside. he is going to continue the war from that perch. >> excuse me. it depends on what the issue. clearly we have steve bannon who is an economic nationalist. and he views some of the others in the white house as globalists. we're talking about military. he wants to reduce america's footprint. and others are more pro military that. >> doesn't make you hate somebody. >> no, but it does show in terms of his influence. it reduces it. here is the thing. bannon said his weapon is back in his hands, being this the media. from a communications

standpoint, within thing you always learn is never give anyone ammunition who has gun pointed at your head. i believe it's smart for the president and those in the administration not to do anything to provoke him, because thaw know that breitbart has a lot of power. >> i don't think he is going to train his focus on the administration. i really don't. i honestly believe that bannon wants what bannon wants, which is a nationalist agenda. i think as long as donald trump doesn't turn on that agenda, nobody in that immediate orbit, particularly his family is going the feel his wrath. i think that one thing we know about donald trump is that he is, again, almost constitutionally incapable of saying he made the mistake. and so as much as he might not have a philosophical allegiance to an agenda, a philosophical allegiance to all the things steve bannon might want to see come in the world, i think he has a personal vested interest in never actually saying i'm going to do something different. so anyone waiting for some type of triangulation in the form of

bill clinton i think will be greatly disappointed, we have to go to break there is one simple rule that steve bannon should probably follow if he doesn't want to get on the bad side of the president -- don't criticize him. you can go after his family, do whatever you want. but don't go after him directly or you're done twice. all right. we're going to take a quick break and take more of the panel's take on some of these relevant qstions that have been popping up. first it was the businesses. now the charities. groups, including the american red cross, are acting out against the president. how? they're cancelling fundraising events that were schedule to be at trump's mar-a-lago resort. how many? what is the impact? we'll tell you, next. i switched to t-mobile, kept my phone-everything on it- -oh, they even paid it off! wow! yeah. it's nice that every bad decision doesn't have to be permenant! ditch verizon. keep your phone. we'll even pay it off when you switch to america's best

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major allegiances. first it was the ceos of the president's business counsels heading for the hills and the president retaliated by closing down those councils. tonight we learned a pas pastor on his evangelical board has also stepped. now some major charities are also saying no thanks to the trump brand. the salvation army, the american cancer society, the red cross have decided not to host fund raisers at mar-a-lago. the american red cross says the venue had become a source of controversy and pain for volunteers, employees and supporters. ryan, what is the resonance of this? is this people just responding to political zeitgeist or is this something of deeper concern for the administration. >> no, this is people and institutions outrage and deeply dismayed by the president making a moral equivalence between the

kkk and nazis and people who showed up to protest them. i still can't believe that is something we have to say and that that's something that happened and the president saying they were very fine people who marched at a rally organized by the kkk and nazis. there's genuine outrage and dismay about that, and i mean the fact that carl icahn, one of his supposed close friends that he talked about on the campaign all the time has now felt it necessary to disassociate himself from trump and i think once we get over this story and this important story about steve bannon leaving white house, this story of trump's comments earlier tseek is not going away. democrats in congress also make sure of that. i think we in the media will continue to shine a pretty bright light on it and there are plenty of republican who's want him 0 repudiate those comments. this is the beginning of the

fallout i think. >> one of the most bizarre developments about the bannon situation is what the president seemed to be saying and doing this week could only be tailored to the most specific and virulent part of his base. they could be reasonably the only people open to the suggestioning that antifa is just as bad as the kkk because you'd have to be someone so invested in the idea that there is this toxic thing called the alt left and they are violent anarchists. so i figured it had bannon written all over it. and to hear, josh, it wasn't him. he wasn't talk to the president this week. he didn't engineer any of in this week. that was more surprise than bannon being out. >> trump clearly believes his kong tension ha both sides are equally at fault. there are two blames for charlotte,sville as appalling as that it is for a lot of us to hear, it was clear from trump's press conference, especially the second one where he just kind of went awol from his talking

points and started basically shouting at the media this is what he really believed. that is not the sign of a president who is reading talking points or is trying to spin the media. to me that was clear. it was emotional. it was visceral and it reflected what trump himself believes. >> i've talked to a lot of the consecutivetive who have said what you just said, they do think and i fa is the same thing and even some of think that black lives matter are the same thing. these aren't alt-right people. this is unfortunately a much more mainstream republican view than baby a lot of people realize and i mean, i think back to what you just read in this introthe one person on his evangelical council has resigned. one person? >> a bunch of ceos and lawmakers but only one religious leader. is it mike pence are they loy to mike pence. >> they're loyal to this president. they obviously don't have a serious enough problem with this if they even have a problem with

them. we're actually hearing from some of them like jerry falwell junior defending the president. >> alice, last word from the gop perspective. >> they're listening to when the president said i demounce white supremacy and naziism. that's all they hear. they hear him denouncing it. >> why is that? >> that's what they want to hear and they're going to support him many times outside of what they want to hear. they hear what they want to hear. >> thank you for helping us understand some major developments going on in our society today. i hope you all have a great weekend. thanks to you for watching. stick with cnn. we'll be right back. ...no minimums. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again.

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>> it is just after 10:00 in the east. that means it's time to hand it over to don lemon and "cnn tonight." and you have a lot cooking tonight, my friend. >> this is "cnn tonight." i am don lemon. thank you so much for watching us. sometimes when we put these up electronically, it doesn't show you the entire picture so i'm going to do it this way. i want you to take a good look at this face. this is the face of the man who bragged about giving a platform to and mainstreaming and rebranding white supremacists as the alt-right. he's the same man, the same people, i should say, who are responsible for the deadly violence in charlottesville. this is steve bannon. steve bannon, you're fired. that's what the president's chief of staff said to him today. but while bannon right now is the latest embodiment of a chaotic white house in crisis, in eight short, or long months, depending on who you talk to,