that's been almost forgotten. it's hepatitis c. one in 30 boomers has hep c, yet most don't even know it. because it can hide in your body for years without symptoms, and it's not tested for in routine blood work. the cdc recommends all baby boomers get tested. if you have hep c, it can be cured. for us it's time to get tested. ask your healthcare provider for the simple blood test. it's the only way to know for sure. george papadopoulos, contacts with russia. >> it was a volunteer position. no activity was ever done in an official capacity on behalf of the campaign. >> let people know that this guy represents just the tip of the iceberg. >> they're going to get you for whatever they can find. >> there is no evidence that mr.
manafort or the trump campaign colluded with the russian government. >> it's a wake-up call for my congressional republican colleagues to get serious about this investigation. >> we are at the beginning of this investigation, not at the end of it. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and allin camerota. >> welcome to your "new day." we begin with the russian investigation, new documents unsealed in federal court lay out the clearest evidence yet that president trump's campaign was eager to work with russia, to hurt hillary clinton. these are facts, not allegations. george papadopoulos, former campaign foreign policy adviser has pled guilty to lying to the fbi about his meetings with russian intermediaries. the bombshell, he has been cooperating with prosecutors for
months. could that even mean he has been wearing a wire? >> so, investigators presenting proof that top trump campaign officials knew, e-mails between paul manafort and his former business associate rick gates, now under house arrest after pleading not guilty to tax and money laundering charges. president trump, quote, was seething while watching this play out yesterday. now the white house is trying to distance the president from all these men. live in washington for us is jessica schneider. good morning, jessica. >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. shockwaves through washington especially as court documents show prosecutors indicate this is just the beginning. in fact, george papadopoulos' guilty plea was kept under wraps for weeks because prosecutors didn't want to dissuade other witnesses from coming forward. while this plea deal made a big impact, prosecutors warn,
ominously, it's just a small part of what might be to come. special counsel robert muchlt eller's office, unsealing documents that show former trump campaign foreign policy adviser george papadopoulos has been cooperating with investigators. his contact with russia, including a meeting with a london professor who told him in april 2016 that the kremlin obtained dirt on hillary clinton in the form of thousands of e-mails. john poddesta's e-mail was hack bid russians the month before. >> papadopoulo. s is direct evidence that someone with the campaign was being contacted by russians. >> reporter: papadopoulos' plea agreement, road map to the ongoing investigation, noting there is a large-scale ongoing investigation of which pa
papadopoulos is a small part, suggesting that he may have been providing the investigation about other trump associates or even wearing a wire. it out lines his extensive efforts to establish a connection between russian officials and the trump campaign, informing then campaign chairman paul manafort in may that the russians were interested in meeting with candidate trump. manafort forwarded the e-mail to deputy rick gates, saying let's discuss. we need someone to communicate that dt is not doing these trips. it should be someone low level in the campaign so as not to send any signal. a meeting has been approved from our side. days later, wikileaks began releasing e-mails hacked from the dnc and trump made these infamous remark. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.
>> reporter: the following month a trump campaign supervisor, identified by the washington post as former trump campaign sam clovis saying i would encourage you and another foreign policy adviser to make the trip if it is feasible, telling the post he actually opposed the trip and was just being polite. >> there is no evidence that mr. manafort or the trump campaign colluded with the russian government. >> reporter: likely contributing to the charges brought against both manafort and gates who pled not guilty on 12 counts monday, including conspiracy against the united states, conspiracy to launder money and seven counts of failure to file bank and financial accounts. paul manafort and rick gates were ordered to home confinement and surrendering their passports. both men must check in with federal authorities by phone
daily and they can only leave their homes for court appearances or medical appointments. rick gates at $5 million bond and both will be back in court thursday. alisyn? >> jessica, thank you very much for all that have reporting. a source close to the white house tells cnn that president trump is seething over the indictment of these three former campaign aides. the white house is denying facts in an attempt to distance the president from these men. joe johns has that part of the story. live at the white house. hi, joe. >> reporter: something new for the white house to worry about. no surprise that paul manafort, former campaign manager, got indicted. this foreign policy adviser, papadopoulos was a big surprise and sent the white house scrambling trying to figure out, explain and even minimize his interactions with the campaign. president trump was seething as he watched the news play out on
tv, the source telling cnn that the president expected the indictments of former campaign chairman paul manafort and aide, rick gates, but was surprised by the revelation that another aide, george papadopoulos pled guilty lying to the fbi. president trump spent the day hunkered down with his legal team, growing increasingly frustrated after seeing manafort arriving at the fbi field office to turn himself in. the administration attempted to downplay the charges. >> i think the reaction of the administration is let the legal justice system work. everyone is innocent until presumed innocent and we'll see where it goes. >> ty cobb telling cnn that he has not responded to the papadopoulos news because he doesn't know him but he touted
him in 2016 during an interview with the washington post. >> george papadopoulos, he's an oil and energy consultant. excellent guy. >> reporter: and sitting at the same table as then candidate trump at a national security meeting. the white house press secretary, attempting to distance the president from his former adviser. >> it was extremely limited. it was a volunteer position. and, again, no activity was ever done in an official capacity on behalf of the campaign. >> reporter: sanders falsely claiming that mueller's charges are unrelated to mr. trump. >> today's announcement has nothing to do with the president, has nothing to do with the president's campaign or campaign activity. >> reporter: a source familiar with former chief strategist steve bannon tells cnn he is urging the president to fight back aggressively against mueller, getting congressional republicans to engage. >>ing to court over documents being requested. the president's aides insisting mr. trump has no plans to take
action against the special counsel. >> the president has not, is not interfering with the special counsel mueller's position, not firing the special counsel. he said that before. >> reporter: also what's not happening is an attempt to obstruct the work of the special counsel, according to the president's lawyers. he continues to cooperate, they say. there is nothing so far public on the president's schedule today. chris and alisyn? >> joe, thank you very much. let's bring in the panel. cnn political analyst david gregory, jeffrey toobin and national security and legal analyst susan hennessy, former attorney for the national security agency. great guest to have in here. let's start with you, susan. when you look at what we learned yesterday, how do you prioritize the discoveries? >> so certainly manafort is certainly a bigger fish here, the higher profile person. it's expected news. we shouldn't minimize it. it sort of got swept up in the
papadopoulos surprise news. we learned that the president employed an unregistered foreign agent, for the puppet regime of vladimir putin, sums of money $18 million, laundered he is accused of. that is significant news. papadopoulos surprise bombshell is potentially more significant because it doesn't just touch on his personal activities but goes directly to campaign activities and this question of collusion. >> you think that papadopoulos is damning. paul manafort money laundering, big deal. >> yes, it is. >> and seeing him walk in to surrender, big deal. and his associate was going to the white house even after paul manafort left but papadopoulos, a name that none of us really knew, you think more damning?
>> yes, it gets you inside the trump campaign at such a critical moment. the spring of 2016, which is just before we learned that the stolen e-mails exist. the public learns that. and it's just before june when donald trump jr. has his infamous meeting at trump tower about getting dirt on hillary clinton from russia. so we learned -- one of the things, when donald trump gets the e-mail -- donald trump jr. gets the e-mail, saying russia wants to help, he doesn't say wow, that's a surprise or boy -- he says love t let me hear. this explains why he's not a surprise. this is a continuing subject of discussion within the trump campaign. how is russia going to help donald trump get elected president? >> sander, the press secretary, jeffrey, is a volunteer. it's a bad point for her to make. because everybody is a volunteer. >> even manafort, yeah.
>> why would prosecutors want a cooperation agreement with papadopoulos if he is irrelevant? >> he certainly -- one of the things with prosecutors is that you don't just want to prove a case with e-mails or evidence that can't speak. you need someone, even if it's a minor-level person, who can explain who's who, who talked to who, whose office was where? when was the staff meeting? how often did you have private conversations? it is so important whether you're prosecuting a mafia case, insider trading case or any kind of criminal case, to have an insider who can explain the workings of the office is indispensable. >> david, jeffrey toobin believes from this language here that papadopoulos may have been
asked by the fbi to wear a wire, to capture some other incriminating evidence. here is the basis of that. defendant has indicated he is willing to cooperate with the government and its ongoing investigation into russian efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. public disclosure of the defendant's initial appearance, however, would significantly undermine his ability to serve as a proactive cooperator. it's those words, proactive cooperator, that means he may have been trying to capture some of their private conversations. >> right. and i think the critical point here is that we have evidence that the trump campaign was open for business, open to work iing with the russians, to dig up dirt on the russians. we know this from that donald junior meeting. we know that from this affidavit, this deal. it raises the prospect then, was the trump campaign willing to work with wikileaks, to dump all those e-mails out? the candidate himself, now president, said on television it would be great if russia could
find all these missing e-mails. so, at no point did they ever take seriously the idea that russia could actually work to undermine our election, to undermine our democracy. they thought, hey, this is great. we'll take all comers who want to help donald trump become president. now as president, someone responsible for the presidency, he still has shown no interest to do anything about it. so that's what i think is so important in all of this. we're getting insight into a mind-set about working with anybody who would help dig up dirt on his opposition. >> susan, relevance of one of the key disclosures yesterday, paul manafort e-mailing rick gates, who also is obviously a volunteer at the campaign, stayed on long after manafort was gone, saying these suggestions by papadopoulos to meet, we don't want to do it. on its face it looks good for
manafort, but also is potential knowledge of what papadopoulos was talking about. if manafort, maybe gates, had knowledge that papadopoulos was being pitched on this idea, what does that say? >> ambiguous language. donald trump isn't going to do this trip and in a separate sentence, it should be someone low level. it's not clear if someone should go and do these trips, which is bad news for them or someone low level should communicate back this information. look, one of the things that is the enduring theme, and this gets back to the point david was make a moment ago. you would expect someone presented with information that a hostile foreign government had illegally obtained information about a u.s. presidential candidate to pick up the phone and call fbi. there's actually a precedence
for that. past candidates have been given information that they think is illegally or inappropriately obtained and have contacted federal authorities. manafort, gates and others, trump junior a few months later being alerted to even the possibility here. their contareaction is not to ct federal authorities but how can we use this to our advantage? >> low-level cooperator here and we don't know whether there's any fruit to the indictment against manafort to make him a cooperator down the line. this is the campaign manager. i want to say what i said before. let's also use the hillary clinton test on this. if she were president and niece facts became known could you imagine the reaction? people want her impeached and she's not even president. they want her to be central to this investigation. >> i love that parlor game, what if this were hillary clinton.
>> there is one or two references in the charging instrument, in the indictment of manafort to his wife, signing tax returns, signing paperwork. if you sign, intentionally sign a false tax return, you can be prosecuted. and it is very common for prosecutors to say, look, if you don't plead guilty, we're going to go after your spouse. michael flynn has a similar problem. michael flynn's son was intimately involved in trump's campaign. if they have any leverage over the son, it can be used against the father. >> one other interesting legal note, jay sekulow, on again, off again adviser to the president said pardons aren't off the table. there's an interesting legal dynamic to that. if there were pardons, one of the downsides to pardoning somebody, they can't plead the fifth anymore. >> that's right. >> they don't have a risk of self incrimination. for future crimes, for things they do in the future.
if someone is pardoned here, they'll have to testify. that's an interesting gambit. >> but president trump can't pardon anyone for state offenses and there are investigations going on, new york state attorney general. >> no charges yet. >> no charges. >> and he would be in deep water if he were to pardon somebody in something that would involve himself. it could trigger an obstruction. >> correct. >> george papadopoulos and paul manafort, the white house says, had small roles in the campaign. is sarah huckabee sanders rewriting history? ♪ lights, camera ♪ strike a pose your eyes work as hard as you do. but do they need help
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sought and was promised thousands of e-mails with dirt on hillary clinton. fact, it represents the clearest cut connection to the administration. fact, george papadopoulos was a member of the trump campaign, a foreign policy adviser and a team headed by jeff sessions. here he is, see him at the table, sessions on one end, trump, then candidate, at national security meeting on the other. what are we hearing from the white house now? thi! this. >> it was extremely limited, volunteer position and no activity was ever done in official capacity on behalf of the campaign in that regard. >> volunteer in the campaign context means something different than you might think. do you know who else was a volunteer? former campaign chairman paul
manafort, jared kushner, steve bannon. you get my point. trump hasn't commented because he doesn't know papadopoulos we're told. in 2016 when asked by the washington post to name his foreign policy advisers, trump knew him, said he was an excellent guy. here are the facts. his e-mails included in court filings prove papadopoulos was talking to russians and passing that information to the highest levels of the campaign, including to chairman sam clovis, who then encouraged p papadopoulos to meet with the russians. he says he was opposed to any trip and his suggestions were only a courtesy. host of charges including money
laundering and tax fraud. sanders downplayed his role in the campaign as well. liste listen. >> again this goes back to activities outside the scope of the campaign. i can't comment on anything they did. look, the president hired paul manafort to handle the delegate process, which he did. he was dismissed not too long after that. >> not too long after? he was brought in in may, left in august. you all know who he is because he was so central to the campaign. handling the delegate process is a big deal in terms of what got donald trump elected. and manafort wasn't dismissed after that. he was hired and praised by the right for how pivotal he was. to the white house that's not the story. hillary clinton is. >> look, today's announcement has nothing to do with the president, has nothing to do with the president's campaign or campaign activity.
the real collusion story has everything to do with the cli clinton campaign, fusion, gps and russia. there's clear evidence of them colluding with russian intelligence to influence the election, smear the president. >> clear evidence is what leads to an indictment. we've seen them now of key people around the president of the united states. sanders is clearly applying a very different level of scrutiny to the white house than she is to hillary clinton. and those are the facts as we know them right now. now, to argue the case of the trump white house is former trump campaign adviser, michael caputo. good to have you, mike. >> thanks for inviting me, chris. >> absolutely. did you know about any of this? did you know about papadopoulos and him pushing up on the campaign to take these meetings and manafort not liking it? you know paul manafort well.
you brought him into the campaign. did you know about any of this? >> no, i didn't. i read about it in the midst of the summer this year like everyone else. i never heard of papadopoulos, never had any interaction with the campaign leaders around me. and the leaders of the washington office of the campaign didn't even know who he was until his name appeared in the press. he was the coffee boy. you might have called him a foreign policy analyst, but, in fact, if he was going to wear a wire, all we would know now is whether he prefers a caramel macchiato over regular american coffee in conversations with his b barista. all this talk is completely beyond the scope of his volunteer duty. >> lot of people are volunteers. manafort was a volunteer. we'll get the picture up at some point. i don't see any coffee being passed around by papadopoulos when he's sitting between the president and jeff sessions.
he was important enough, mike, that when he started e-mailing about this stuff, he got the ear of sam clovis, manafort communicating with gates about the suggestions and what to do about them. that is not what you do when a coffee boy asks you to do something. i get the spin. but the reality is that manafort took it more seriously than you do. >> well, manafort had to. if the russians were trying to get into the campaign through this low-level volunteer staffer, he was there to rebuff it, as he did in the he e-mails, as you noted in the show. he pushed back and said the president is not going to be having any of these kind of meetings and anyone who interprets that exchange between paul and rick gates via e-mail as saying that paul was sending a lower level staffer to meetings with russians doesn't understand the english language. clearly he was saying a lower level staffer needed to communicate with these people and tell them these meetings were not going to happen. i think that papadopoulos
indictment and guilty plea shows that paul manafort and the trump campaign were rebuffing these attempts of junior-level people like papadopoulos, trying to work outside the scope of his work description for the campaign. >> it would be easier to accept that premise if there were an additional fact we don't have. i call you up. we're working on a campaign together. imagine that, mike. i say to you there's a guy from russia who says he has these e-mails they stole from hillary clinton and he wants to give them to me. i think we should meet with him. what would you say? >> at that point i would say this is an inappropriate contact if it's with a russian government official. >> no, no, somebody who knows that they can get them. your mind immediately goes to this smells terrible. stay away from it and maybe, maybe i should do something about it. we didn't see that. >> the kid was 27 years old. >> whatever he is, you had him
at the table next to jeff session. >> you're trying to ascribe to him the ability to discern what's right and what's wrong. >> no, i'm putting that on manafo are. t. >> and he pushed back. >> but he didn't tell anybody. he didn't pick up the phone and say, hey, fbi, somebody is trying to push up on our campaign. they're saying they have stolen e-mails and supposedly it's a russian leader. >> wree don't know that he did that, you're right. >> there is absolutely no indication that he did that. and he has never said that he did that. and i think right now that would be the first thing out of his mouth. >> we also don't know all the facts of the case, chris. i'm just going to go on the face of this information that paul rebuffed it and moved on from there. you and i both will do that. we don't have any evidence otherwise. at the same time, the fact that this kid was pushed back by the campaign chairman and people around the kid were told to calm him down, and he still went at the campaign five or six times to try to get action toes senior leaders for the russians tells
me that he was up to something bad, this kid. and i think whatever the fbi has determined will be his punishment is a fitting punishment. if you're counting on him to provide some kind of evidence -- >> if he's so bad why didn't you blow the whistle on them and say check into this papadopoulos? >> i don't know the answer to that. >> you find your answer in don junior. what did he say? >> i get that. >> same solicitation, awesome. i want to meet with them. >> and don junior approached -- chris, hold on one second. he approached it the same way that the 27-year-old naive kid did and said that's a meeting we should have and paul manafort and others showed up because he was the son of a candidate. it was a meeting that shouldn't have happened and devolved quickly and everybody left. it's been revealed in e-mails and all the document production that's necessary for these investigations, and we'll get to the bottom of it. i think that the don junior meeting needs to be looked into,
in its entirety, just as papadopoulos needs to look into it. the wire tap possibility for george papadop ochoulos is lauge at best. all you're going to get are tapes of him and his barista talking about his coffee. >> why would mueller investigate his time into somebody that is so meaningless? >> i can't ascribe -- >> it defeats your premise, does it not? >> if you don't have anything else, you work with what you've got. >> if you don't have anything else? you got him on a felony and just indicted two other guys on felonies. >> that has nothing to do with papadopoulos, nothing to do with russians and nothing at all to do with the trump campaign. it didn't sew any touch on the president or president's senior staff. >> you're defining it
differently now, though. you said the campaign. then you said the president or senior staff i would include manafort in that. you've got an e-mail exchange with manafort, negotiating with will to have a specific meeting. >> which he pushed back on and said no, we're not having the meeting. >> apparently in this e-mail. >> you're indicting -- >> no, mueller just did that. papadopoulos was part of the campaign. >> i push back on that completely. >> how? >> i never heard of papadopoulos until his name was in the media. >> why was he sitting in a meeting with the president and jeff sessions? >> if photograph with president trump are proof of some kind of collusion, there are 500,000 photos of you to look at threw the campaign. >> he said he's an excellent guy, when he reached out with these suggestions, the campaign didn't blow the whistle on him.
they didn't call and say this guy is a nobody, get rid of him. >> what the president was doing when the washington post asked him, he was reading from a list. all we have is audio of that meeting. he was reading from a list. in that list were many other people the president hadn't met yet, including papadopoulos. to think that a 27-year-old amateur foreign policy analyst will rise to the top of the trump campaign defies -- a volunteer coffee boy like george papadopoulos would get to the top of this campaign and it's going to be proven wrong. >> i respect the argument but other than manafort, you had a bunch of nobodies around the president during this campaign. it was part of the success story of how he made it so far against seasoned professionals with a rag tag group of people who had never been at the upper echelons of the game. i don't know about that argument. listen to the president. >> steven miller was at the
campaign. >> that's true but was much more -- outside strategists. look, i love steven. we have him on the show all the time. i'm not hitting his credentials. the idea that you only had the best of the upper echelons of this campaign is an arguable fact. what i'm saying is this. >> chris, the idea -- >> listen to the president -- >> the idea -- >> -- talk about this guy. i want the audience to hear it, then you make your point. >> george papadopoulos, he's an oil and energy consultant, excellent guy. >> doesn't sound canned to me. sounds like an honest assessment. >> he was reading from a list that had his name and what he did for a living. >> excellent guy, that's what you say about this guy, papadopoulos? >> right. never met again after that pro
forma meeting on the very rare location he was in washington for the speech. the guy neverlanded on the campaign. he never had a role. he never got paid. >> why did sam clovis entertain his suggestions and encourage him? why did paul manafort engage with this guy? wasn't he too busy to engage with a nobody? >> he sent a red flag up saying these are not the kind of meetings we want to have. >> not to spend a signal. what part did that peen? >> if a denial of a meeting came from a senior level of the campaign it might offend or do something, set off another round of negotiations or discussions when all paul wanted to do was push back and shut it down. >> right. the fact that he took it seriously proves that this guy wasn't just a coffee boy, as you write him off.
>> no, that's not true, chris. >> he was taken seriously. otherwise, they wouldn't have dealt with it, mike. i've been around campaigns forever. you don't deal with people who are irrelevant to you. you don't deal with the e-mail. you would never have responded. >> paul was not dealing with him. >> he dealt with him explicitly. 11 different times he had back and forths with these guy. >> i understand that but when -- it doesn't matter who the entreaty comes from, when it regards a foreign nation trying to get involved in the campaign. doesn't matter how junior that person is. it's elevated to a level of a person in the campaign to put their foot on it, to stomp on it. and make sure it doesn't happen. >> you stomp on it, don't alert anybody about it and next time it comes up with don junior you actually go to the meeting? it's so inconsistent, stomping it out versus fanning the flames. >> i'll stipulate with you and everyone watching that the russians were trying to get access to the trump campaign. of course, they already had
access to the clinton campaign through the steele dossier. >> how? they didn't have any access. >> they were denied each time. >> michael steele was a uk former british agent, christopher steel. he was a former uk intelligence agency accessing sources. this wasn't russians coming to hillary. >> it was russians. >> and saying we've got the goods and them saying great. you're missing a few steps here. >> let's go step by step. ooi hillary clinton's campaign and the democratic national committee paid a cutout lawyer who paid fusion gps who paid a british spy to buy information from russian spies, russian intelligence material. a lot of that is -- that's a chain of events in an opposition research process that is beyond the pail of what's accepted in
campaign. >> that's not true but continue. >> your concern is about papadopoulos. >> you do this all the time. how they accounted for it when the russian spies -- there's funny money all over the campaign. >> when did british spies get involved, chris? >> they didn't go to hillary clinton and offer his information. this is such apples and bananas. >> it's still fruit, chris. it's still fruit, chris. both of them need to be -- >> fruit of the poisonous tree, michael caputo. fruit of the poisonous tree. i take your argument. we have to leave it there. >> i want to see both things investigated. >> i'm sure you do. we'll deal with them one at a time. >> and i know you don't. >> that's not true. everything should be investigated that warrants it. i just don't think you get to cry "hillary" every time something happens and that makes it okay. >> but when you cry papadopoulos it's just not credible.
>> he was indicted so it was credible to mueller. you're always welcome back. lay out evidence that some people in president trump's campaign was wr eager to work with russia to hurt hillary clinton. joining us now, former democratic vice presidential nominee senator tim kaine of virginia. i know you've been listening in on that. before we get to the accusations that he just leveled and many republicans are, i want to know what your thoughts were yesterday as you watched this all play out, as someone who was victimized by russian meddling in 2016, what did you think as you watched these indictments and arrests happen yesterday? >> no surprise. look, from the day that director mueller was appointed, i knew he would get to the bottom of it. we haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet but it was aparent in a vague way what russia was doing even during the campaign. hillary and i brought it up a
lot. people didn't see that interested in it back then. now we know that there were major efforts to attack the american election and now the chairman of the campaign has been indicted and another campaign official has been indicted and another one has pled guilty. there's no surprise in yesterday. i'm just gratified that director mueller is proceeding and this is picking up momentum. >> about that papadopoulos guilty plea and the idea that he was interacting with a russian professor who was offering up dirt and who knew that hillary clinton was trying to arrange a meeting, is that evidence of collusion? >> i'm not a criminal lawyer. i'll leave them to decide what equals collusion. you have him now pleading guilty to a set of events and then
lying to the fbi about them that was -- he was in cooperation with russia about getting stolen material and you have other facts as well, the admitted meeting between donald trump jr. and russian officials. look, more and more evidence is coming on the table. bottom line is mueller will get to the bottom of t i have confidence in that. the american people need to know it, a, because mueller is looking at charging people criminally, which he should if the evidence suggests it. we have an election in virginia in ten days, federal elections in a year. we have to protect our electoral system. >> you hear the talking points on the other side. we've heard this time and again over the past few weeks. it was the hillary clinton campaign that wanted dirt from russians via fusion gps, via christopher steel. they were looking for dirt on donald trump from the russians. what's your response? >> they're trying to change the subject. good news is that director
mueller can look at all of it. we want director mueller to stay in place. i'm part of efrtds in the senate to limit president trump's ability to move on director mueller. he needs to stay in place. the investigation has to have the resources to continue the investigation. >> looking for dirt from russians and russians offering dirt to the trump campaign. >> if you're asking about the dossier, that was funded by a conservative online publication in washington. washington free beacon. >> at first but then hillary campaign, right? >> let me finish. they hired a firm working with a british secret service agent. when they decided to drop it, apparently we now know that some of the funds to continue the investigation were paid for by the clinton campaign. but we all do opo research. every candidate does opo
research on their candidate. ask any candidate. they do it. it's pretty common practice. that's not any evidence of collusion. but let's get to the bottom of it all. let's all democrats and republicans agree that director mueller will have the complete latitude and resources to get to the bottom of that. if the president will say that and congressional republicans and democrats will say that, the nation will be well served. >> let's talk about something you have talked about and now is reaching fever pitch. what did you think when you heard secretary of state rex tillerson and secretary of defense mattis basically say they don't think that a new one is necessary? >> i trust those men in their jobs but they can't tell congress how to do ours.
war powers in the congress are reserved to congress in article i. we don't have to play mother may i and ask permission to the administration to fulfill our constitutional duty. senator flake and i have a bipartisan proposal that says after 16 years of open-ended war all across the globe, and americans were surprised when they read the news about four green berets in niger, about news recently that a green beret was killed, potentially strangled by other colleagues in mali. the footprint in africa is much bigger than the american public understands. i introduced documents at the hearing yesterday to demonstrate that. it's time to have the discussion. good news is that i'm gratified that the chair, bob corker, is saying you're right. now is the time. we need to move on a mark-up and it should be bipartisan. >> secretary of state rex
tillerson and secretary of defense mattis want in terms of any new amf. no time constraints. it wouldn't have an end date. no geographic constraints so the u.s. can litigate war wherever on the globe it need be. and they want the 2001 aumf to not be repeal bfd there is a replacement. are you comfortable with those? >> the last one is easy. i think we should do a new authorization and at the same time retire the old one but not leave a gap. i agree with that. >> what about the first two? >> the fact that the trump administration wants to wage war anywhere in the world forever, nice try. i don't think that's what the american public wants and that's not consistent with our role. on the geography, senator flake and i remember in our authorization for the administration to notify us, where they are taking the fight to these three terrorist groups and we have the ability to pass
a resolution of disapproval. so they can go ahead and take action in these countries after notice to us. but if we disapprove, they have to stop. that gives appropriate deference to our military leaders. >> what about the time? >> there has to be a time limit, at least a forced periodic review. if there isn't, you will have what we have now. we've been at war 16 years and they basically said this war will take generations. america should not be in a forever war without vote of congress. we owe it to the troops and the american public to periodically review the extent of military action around the world else we will be at war in the world forever. what do mueller's indictments of former trump campaign aides reveal about the scope of the special counsel's investigation? alberto gonzalez, an important take next.
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mean about what the special counsel is doing with this investigation? we now know three former trump campaign aides have been charged in federal court. joining us is our panel. the author of "true faith and allegiance." >> thank you. >> so let's start with the macro here. what you have read through these papers and you see the charges, would you have reached the same conclusions? do you believe the indictments are justified? >> chris, i don't have access to the detective evidence. i have confidence that robert mueller, i think he assembled a strong team. i think they feel comfortable with their case, otherwise they would not have moved forward in
the fashion. my sense is this is simply the end of the beginning. i think we still -- there's still a lot to learn here. i think mueller is very broad. there's a lot of angst by republicans saying mueller should be investigating the russian ties to the clinton campaign, and that may happen. i think we need to be patient. robert mueller will use this data and make sure to any extent any americans were involved in criminal activity, they will be held accountable for it. >> help me understand, on the face of the facts, with trump you have russians coming to his people and saying we have dirt, all right? in one case, with papadopoulos, who just pleaded guilty, they were coming to him with the e-mails that were stolen by hillary clinton before they were even made public, okay?
and we have their openness to those suggestions. on the other side you have op yo research, and it's a dirty thing, you and i know it well. but they were not being saw l t solicited by russians, they were victims. >> we don't know auflt facts here. there's a lot of so-called explanations or conclusions reached upon what is being said out there in the public by both sides. the only point that i think is important to emphasize is robert mueller is very broad and it's quite possible it will look into russian involvement and illegal cooperation with the trump campaign, and also what may have
happened with respect to individuals associated with the clinton campaign. >> he should look at everything that is relevant. obviously, that's what this is all about. if you were working in a campaign like this and somebody came to you and said the russians wanted to give you information and have stolen e-mails, and i am not saying it's about legality, but isn't that something you should alert the authorities to? isn't that something you should alert this campaign aide is coming and trying to solicit this kind of information? isn't that what should have been expected? >> well, somebody in my background, i would know that's a serious situation, and whether or not this individual had that level of experience or expertise, you know, i just don't know. whether or not he should have known to talk to somebody senior in the campaign, and then that person should have taken
appropriate actions. >> what would you have done? >> well, i would -- i probably would have had a conversation with somebody in the law enforcement arena. i don't know if i would have had a conversation with the candidate in this particular case, but based upon my experience and expertise, i would have notified somebody in the law enforcement arena. >> i think it's a big negative fact, probably not to mueller, and when he looked at those guys, he is like, why didn't they? let's feed cure kwraus fiosity point. you understand authorization of military force. do you think a new aumf is sufficiented? >> i certainly would say it's
helpful. i think it's helpful for the american people to have both the congress and the executive branch working together when you are talking about committing women and men in harm's way, and this debate is not helpful. we negotiated force against al qaeda, the group that attacked the united states on 9/11. the notion that today the executive branch is still relying upon that authorization to use military force, to me, makes me uncomfortable. i think the white house would be in a stronger legal position if they could go to congres and work with congress and get an authorization to use military force to deal with the threats that exist today. i'm not in any way suggesting the national security of our country, the president has the authority to protect this country in self defense, but
with respect to the things that we do around the world today, and the threats that exist today, i think the united states -- the presidency would be in a stronger position with the approval of congress. >> yeah, the executives have been using power because it has been given to them by congress, administration after administration. it's time for congress to do its duty under the constitution and give statutory authority if so warranted. thank you for helping us on "new day" this morning. was former trump aide, george papadopoulos, helping prosecutors for months? maybe even recording conversations? we'll bring you up to speed, next. so you're looking for male customers, ages 25-54,
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the one meal when we come together, break bread, share our day and connect as a family. [ bloop, clicking ] and connect, as a family. just, uh one second voice guy. [ bloop ] huh? hey? i paused it. bam, family time. so how is everyone? find your awesome with xfinity xfi and change the way you wifi. we have crossed a threshold. robert mueller is a tough and dedicated prosecutor. >> there's evidence the campaign was contacted by russians. >> his case involves the core of what mueller is investigating, which is possible