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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  January 14, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PST

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this is gps the global public square. welcome to all you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. today on the show president trump casts a slur on a wide swath of the world's nations calling them shitholes. what does this say about the man who uttered it? and what is the future of immigration in the trump era? then a possible thaw in the frigid relations with north korea. president trump says he would be willing to talk to kim jong-un
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on the phone. but the question is, is that really a good idea? and what will he say? also, 2017, i think most of the world was happy to say farewell to it, but it was actually a very good year. not just for the 1%. the "new york times" will offer a refreshing dose of good news. >> the most important thing happening right now is not a trump tweet but it is this larger progress that's transforming the world. but first here's my take. the fire and fury over michael wolff's book has largely centered on the power struggles within the white house but behind all of that lies an important political development. one that explains the real rift between donald trump and his former chief strategist, steve bannon.
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president trump seems to have abandoned populism. remember candidate trump, his signature issue was immigration on which he promised an unyielding hard-line including a border wall and mass deportations. his contact with the american voter was brimming with populist measures with tough actions against china to a public works program. his economic plans focused on goodies for the middle class for a 35% tax cut for middle class families to deductions for child and elderly care. he called for severe restrictions on lobbying and term limits for members of congress. consider trump's final campaign ad. >> global power structure that's responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth, and put that money into the pockets of a handful of large corporations and political entities. >> flash forward to president
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trump today. there is no wall and his relation with china have been chummy. the main focus of his economic program has gone to return vast sums of money to large corporations. in the early months of the trump administration, bannon must have watched with incredality, essentially handed over the reins of the government to paul ryan and mitch mcconnell. mcconnell is quoted as saying this president will sign whatever is put in front of him. where did trump's populism come from in the first place? to answer that question is not to read wolff's gossipy confession from joshua green's highly intelligent "devil's bargain." he points out trump had a mish mash of political views. that leaned in no particular direction. but he began going on talk radio and addressing conservative audiences and realized it was
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not economics but social and cultural immigrations like that got the crowds fired up. trump was indifferent to the idea of a wall, according to green. but campaign aide is saying when trump tried the idea out for the first time in january 2015, the place just went nuts. and trump adopted these issues far more quickly than his 16 competitors in the primaries. he distinguished himself by taking on the most hard-line positions and thus winning over the gop base. i don't agree with many of steve bannon's proposal but he surely right in recognizing the populace fury that runs through a large swath of the country. one wonders what will happen to it as time passes and trump's voters noticed they ended up with something quite different than they had imagined.
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during the presidential transition bannon told wolff that the trump era would be like america in the 1930s with a massive public works program that would get blue collar workers back in shipyard, mills and mines. instead we appear to have a return to the 1920s, an era of unrestrained capitalism, a shrunken state and dramatically rising inequality. is this what the laid off steel worker in ohio voted for. for more go to cnn/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. let's get started. u.s. embassy officials have been summoned by their host nations. many around the world have labeled the president's language racist from a u.n. spokesman to u.s. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. this came after president trump at a meeting in the white house labelled african nations as
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shitholes according to senator dick durbin who was there. that word is having deep impact. both domestically and abroad. joining me to discuss are the former foreign secretary of the united kingdom, he now runs the international rescue committee. and the executive director of the center for immigration studies. david, what is your reaction and what is your guess about how other countries, you know, you were foreign secretary. how will they react to this? >> obviously, the language that the president used has taken u.s. diplomacy into the gutter. and i think that on its own would have bipartisan enough to relieve the summons that you're talking about. botswana is asking is that us? there's a policy question too. this administration's policy in respect of refugees and migrants is leading a global race to the bottom. you have to look at the reductions in the number of
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refugees allowed to come to the u.s., the recent assaults on the position of the temporary protective status of elsalvadorians being threatened with deportation to the world's homicide capital in el salvador. it's the policy and the language coming together that give people the chills, frankly. feels not just a betrayal of american history but a really thorough going of sorts of america's reliances and role as a global leader. what demarcated the u.s. from russia, china and now labeled competitors on the administration is that on a moral plain it set up a standard that others should emulate and that's being thrown away. >> mark, when you look at the language, it feels to me like it's not just language. and i say this because i don't know, i suppose i probably come from one of the nation's that
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trump is talking about. i don't know where india falls on the spectrum but it's brown and poor, which seem to be the two main criteria. and it feels to me like a profound misunderstanding about america, about the american experiment that we think that those countries are screwed up because of the political and economic systems in those countries, not because of the inferior genetic quality of the people. quality of the people. if the people come here to america, to the american system, they will thrive and prosper and, in fact, you look at people. nigeria is a pretty screwed up country but getting better. nigerian immigrants everywhere, particularly in the united states, do fantastically. you can go on and on and on. isn't it more than just the language? at some level doesn't donald trump understand america and what america immigration has been all about? >> nigeria is a great example because why are nigerian
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immigrants in the united states doing well compared to say hondurans or somalias? because nigerian immigrants generally have been selected based on education and skill. they are coming here as foreign graduate students for instance and staying. so it's the selection filter really is what is you're seeing here. but the fact is, if you look at the outcomes of people, whether it's welfare use or income or educational attainment for people from somalia or honduras they're not great in the united states. people who come with higher levels of human capital end up doing better. and so this is why the idea of using a merit based system so that you don't decide, okay, you're from somalia, we don't let you in, you instead judge people based on the level of education and skill and what have you.
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that's what's likely to lead to much better outcomes in the long run for the united states. >> but, obviously, at some level it's a truism people who are more educated will do better than others. the boat people who came from indochina were not selected on the basis of some elaborate merit system and have done very well. indian-americans, some of whom came on kind of a merit system, many of whom came through the chain migration that trump denies have done well. the broader point to me it seems human talent is sprinkled equally throughout the globe. the idea that you want to avoid people who come from countries that are screwed up or countries where everybody is brown or black, it seems profound misunderstanding what america is about. >> look, his comments -- let's understand, first of all. i don't think that politicians in other countries don't swear in private meetings as well. but the issue here is that we
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are -- the case people are making for not sending, for instance, these salvadorians or haitians back after their temporary status has expired the case they are making those countries are such bad places to live in that we cannot, must not return people. well isn't that basically just what the president said, that those countries are not, are terrible places to live. he just said it in a vulgar, kind of archie bunkerish way which is his idiom. but that's what advocates of increased refugee settlement and legalizing illegal immigrants essentially saying the same thing the president said only with different vocabulary. >> is trump saying the same thing you're saying, david? >> no. there's two aspects to this. one is the choice of language and the derogatory nature of it. the second is the link to the people themselves. you're right to say talent is
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sprinkled more generally. there's another point that's important. people who have known persecution, oppression, poverty, the absence of freedom, when they get here my goodness do they value what america has to offer. we got a very difficult or big issue coming up. i would be interested in what mark would say about this. 200,000 elsalvadorians documented to return. i think it's very important to recognize that america's position as a global melting pot, the place that does have rules, that does require people to follow certain standards, that does have different aspects of merit or refugee based element and should be updated, the system hasn't been updated since '86. america sets a standard. the fact that america's pulled out of the u.n. discussions on global migration tells you about
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what the house calls abdication. this is no longer the behavior mind the words of a global leader, it's the words of a country that's fearful of the future and that runs so contrary to everything that people expect of the united states. >> we'll talk about all this. stick with us. next we'll also talk about the president's cancelled trip to london. he says he's not going because of something president obama did. we will examine the veracity of the claim with the former foreign secretary of the united kingdom when we come back.
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in london for peanuts only to build a new one in an off location for $1.2 billion. bad deal. david was the foreign secretary of the united kingdom and also joining us, again, mark. do you think that was the best and most amazing embassy in london and do you think trump is right? >> the new one is closer to downing street than the old one. the old one is an architectural montroci montrocity. donald trump has made himself very unpopular. not on the left of the political spectrum, but on the right. that can't be a good thing. he's tweeting and retweeting of the fascist material in november touched a deep chord in the uk and we can't end up in a situation where it is easier for president putin to go to london than president trump to go to london. i hope he doesn't hide too long behind this allegation.
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by the way it was the bush administration who took this decision to move -- >> you're letting facts get in the way of a good argument. mark, back to immigration. one thing i wonder is whether when donald trump makes these kind of comment the shithole comment, he is trying to remind his base, he's, in fact, with them. because, of course, the conversation before that had been that donald trump had gone soft on immigration. that he was now talking about a bill of love, a pass for dreamers, comprehensive reform. as somebody who supports his original hard-line or versions or parts of it, are you worried that trump will go soft and end up making a deal that is, in fact, much more what the democrats want on immigration than the republicans? >> that's always a danger with the president because you never are really quite sure. even during the campaign he
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would say things that sounded more like jeb bush than donald trump. that's a long standing strain with the president's comments. but, it never ends up turning out that way. and as to your point about whether his comment about these countries was a calculated move, i don't think so. i think president is kind of a man in the street. his gut reaction is the first thing that comes out of his mouth. so, no. i think what we saw in that meeting where he seems to be agreeing with the democrats and telling them sure i'll sign whatever it is you send me, i think that was more calculated in the sense of trying to show him, you know, agreeing with everybody and being agreeable, whereas his gut reaction is the, you know, is relatively a more hawkish approach to immigration. i don't think it was calculated and i don't think -- i'm always worried he might go soft, but it never ends up happening. so i'm worried but not panicking
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let me put it that way. >> i can reassure that there's no danger america will be seen soft on these issues. america is leading the race to the bottom. the point i would make is that example that's being set is being used by leaders around the world who want to kick out refugees and it's undermining the position of people looking abdul of jordan he's hosts refugees and being urged by some people in his own country to send them back to syria and undermined by the stance taken by this administration. the truth is the vast majority of people coming from the troubled parts of the world are staying far away from the united states. the top ten hosting refugee countries in the world account for 2.5% of the world's income.
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>> you know, that's an important point, because bringing refugees to the united states, even a small number of them, is extraordinarily expensive and a misuse of our resources. the united states, it cost 12 times as much to resettle a refugee from the middle east as it does to care for them in the u.n. hcr facilities in the countries where they are taking their first asylum. it is morally indefensible to resettle refugees because each person that we bring here represents 11 other people that that money is not helping. there's no moral justification for resettling large numbers of refugees to the west. >> david, you get the last word. >> very small number of refugees are resettled in the west. remember, the fake news at the heart of mark's comment is the idea that refugees are costing the american people. the american government own report shows refugees are paying
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$6 billion a year more in taxes, $63 billion often years than they are receiving in benefits. these people who know the cost of persecution are contributeors to the american dream. >> it's worth pointing out you have a wonderful book called "rescue" and it's about the refugee crisis and about the fact that you sound like an englishman from central casting you're the son of refugees. >> that's right. mark, david, pleasure to have you on. next on gps, north korea. the president claimed in an interview that he and kim jong-un have a very good relationship. i will talk to "the new yorker's" robin wright about that relationship when we come back. approach remains. global markets may be uncertain... but you can feel confident in our investment experience around the world. call us or your advisor... t. rowe price. invest with confidence.
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in an interview thursday with the "wall street journal" president trump said, i probably have a very good relationship
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with kim jong-un. he refused to answer however whether he meant whether he actually spoken to the north korean leader. trump did say recently he would be willing to speak to kim. is a trump-kim conversation a good idea and what would they say. a long-time correspondent and a contributor for "new yorker." robin, you actually have been in north korea, talked to north korean officials. let's first start with why have they agreed to this, these talks with the south koreans? is that they really have a burning desire to be a part of the olympics? >> i think they do want to be a part of the olympics but i think more broadly this is a power play. this is a ploy to prevent washington to take action against it. it gives them time on their nuclear program. they got the south koreans to pick up the tab for the athletic group but as well as the delegation that goes with it and
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the cheerleaders that the north koreans are so proud of. so, you know, i'm a little cynic whether this will lead to anything else. it will take after the olympics are over one missile test, one missile tweet from the white house to get us back where we were with the north koreans being further along in the nuclear program. >> they reacted to the michael wolff book. >> it's fascinating to watch them talk about how this reflects the president's humiliation. they feel, and again remember this is an isolated country. feel that their adversary, the greatest danger to the north korean state is now being humiliated not justin united states but on the world stage. so it's been kind of fun to watch the north koreans try to make capital off the michael wolff book. how far has the impact of fire and fury gone. >> one of the things i worry about is even if things do move in a positive direction, one of
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the difficulties here is that the trump administration will have to orchestrate some kind of negotiations or deals with a number of allies. the south korean, the japanese, a number of quasi adversaries. that's a very elaborate game. it feels -- they haven't been so good working with allies or these kind of complex negotiations. >> the trump administration? i mean the understatement of the year. his comments on immigration have underscored he lost credibility. his reputation have been demolished on the world stage. his ability because of his racist attitude and bigoted world view to deal with some of the bigger issues facing the world. in a world that is globalizing where racial diversity is greater than ever. his america first agenda looks increasingly like white first. >> you spent some six or seven years in aphfricafrica.
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the thrust of his comments seemed to be directed towards africa and then haiti. how do you think those countries are reacting? >> astonishment. this a is continent we're talking about 1.2 billion people in 50 countries that constitute more than a quarter of the world's countries. they have contributed to nobel peace prizes in medicine and physics and chemistry. ten in peace. this is a continent that has contributed that it's on the front burner in terms of developing economy, fast-moving, fast growing economies. this is also a place where the demise of the islamic state in syria and iraq. you're finding some of our greatest jihadi challenges in somalia. africa has to be a big part of his national security agenda. if africa is unstable so is
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america. >> let me also ask you about iran since i have the chance to have you here. again, you've spent a lot of time in iran, more than any foreign correspondent i can think of. what do you think is going on in there with those protests? do you think this is a kind of a moment for the regime or they will weather it? >> they've contained the protests for not. they've not contained the issue. this will continue to bubble. the question, of course, can the regime respond to kind of structural needs. president rouhani was trying to engage in the reforms that the world bank would have welcomed but at a cost to the people and these are kind of subsidies, he proposes to cutting, contributing to the price hikes date back to the iran-iraq war. no parliament has been willing to pull back on them. so this is a long-standing issue that has to be dealt with for islamic republic to survive.
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>> it is interesting. he is trying to make the budget more transparent by opening it up and, of course, it it revealed how much money was going to syria and how much money was going to ayatollahs. he pushed for faster internet. is he the gorbachev of iran. >> that's the question since the day he was elected in 2003. because to reform -- revolution always has to adopt or collapse. the key is often when you look at communism in the soviet union or apartheid in south africa, the key is economics. can an ideology sustain itself in practice. nor communism or apartheid can an islamic theocracy sustain itself. promise to give the downtrodden and oppressed. iran has not been able to deliver what people expect.
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with the number of cell phone users, 48 million now out of 80 million, with the majority of the population born since the revolution and unemployment among the young, 29% and unofficially closer to 40 there are hot beds of discontent across the country. you haven't seen the kind of unity between poor, the working class, the young and the reformers, the liberals and elites and educated that you did in the run up to the revolution. we're not in the midst of a counter revolution yet. >> do you think when you traveled there recently that it still is true, which is my experience that iranians surprisingly pro american or interested and excited to meet americans and speak of it with no hostility? >> i think that was true up until the trump administration and i think the kind of language
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that has been used, again, a little bit what was used on immigration has led to a lot of disillusionment and the fact that some of the basics whether it's sanctions waivered or the boeing deal for aircraft a lot of things have been put in doubt. that's the things that iranian people felt to come out of it. they look at the trump administration having undermine the obama administration progress in defusing that date back four decades. next on "gps" much of america now has variety of legal marijuana eethal for recreational or medicinal uses. but the trump administration altered guidance to federal prosecutors about how to deal with pot. is that a smart policy? when we come back. ♪
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now for what in the world segment. at the end of last week as we all obsessed over michael wolff's book, attorney general jeff sessions in a one page memo quietly turned back years of progress on marijuana reform. on january 4th he reversed an obama era decision that instructed them to relax enforcement in states that were legalized and regulated. are we bringing back a part of the war on drugs that had been dead and buried? let's remember this hugely expensive decades long war was deemed a failure by both sides of the aisle, crowding the country's prison with low level offenders. about 43% of the 1.5 million drug arrests in 2015 alone were related to marijuana. we're not just talking about trafficking. there were more than 8 million marijuana arrests from 2001 to 2010 according to aclu 88% for possession.
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united states has one of the highest rates of incarceration in the world with more than 20% of the world's prisoners, despite having less than 5% of its population. than 5% of its population. sessions has already run up against the priorities of many conservatives like the koch brothers for previous drug policy decision regarding sentencing. and legalization of marijuana is popular, even with republicans. 64% of americans support legalization, according to a recent gallup, the highest in almost 50 years of polling and a majority of republicans are in favor. 29 states plus the district of columbia. three quarters of respondents said they would oppose the federal government enforcing marijuana laws in states that legalized it. then there is the economics. with this move, the administration is targeting a swiftly growing american
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industry with businesses that could potentially be vulnerable to prosecution in the future. the legal cannabis industry employs between 165,000 and 230,000 people, according to the marijuana business daily, which "washington post" notes is two to three times as many as coal mining. in states with the most liberal laws, taxes on cannibis are a huge boom. colorado raked in $247 million in 2017 in marijuana-related tax revenue. millions of dollars of these revenues have been put back into public schools. and what happens if these legal growers and distributors shut down? illegal activity takes it place. as california republican congressman says sessions just delivered an extravagant holiday gift to the drug cartels. i guess sessions and trump might prefer to call it a christmas gift. up next, not a whole lot of
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good news on this show or in the world at large over the past year, but when we come back, we'll get the other side of doom and gloom. the astonishing quantity of good news when we come back.
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i use herpecin, it penetrates deep to treat. it soothes, moisturizes, and creates an spf 30 barrier, to protect against flare-ups caused by the sun. herpecin l. many americans and many of the rest of the world were quite pleased to see 2017 end. when "the washington post" asked americans for a word to describe last year the top ten results were, chaotic, crazy, challenging, great, tumultuous, horrendous, disappointing, interesting, disastrous, good. to all those skeptics explain why you say 2017 was the best year in human history?
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>> they are right about the chaos. right about all the problems. but internally, we tend to focus on the problems. but we tend to ignore the backdrop. the great backdrop which continued strongly in 2017 is enormous progress against the age old enemies of humanity, illiteracy, poverty, disease. every day another 217,000 people emerged from extreme poverty. another 300,000 people got clean water for the first time. another 325,000 got electricity for the first time. so my argument is that the most important thing happening right now is not a trump tweet but it is this larger tapestry of progress that's transforming the
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world. >> when you look at markers like war, civil war, even there you see a remarkable uptick over the last -- if you look over the longer trajectory. >> down tick. >> sorry. uptick of peace. >> uptick of peace. interstate wars have pretty much just disappeared. and you do still see some civil wars. there's obviously conflict. but, you know, the number of people dying in any given year from warfare is way down on a per capita basis and on an absolute basis from what it was. >> when people hear this and say wait what about syria. i hear about the horrors of syria. >> it's true. it was every bit horrific as they say. people forget about the angolan
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war, mozambique war, plus all of indochina. are often reluctant to acknowledge this progress because it feels like being disloyal toa all the needs out there. there is a risk that if we don't acknowledge this backdrop of power, we look at the people who want to make america great again or a past golden era that never really existed. >> if you operate a backdrop of pessimism and fear, you are likely to come to the wrong conclusions you are likely to be optimistic that there are challenges. >> that's exactly right. one problem with the journalism and humanitarian issues that
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they leave people feeling hopeless and disempowered and too bad about global poverty. 90% of people in polls say that global poverty is worsening or staying the same. when the trend in our lifetime was when i was a kid, the majority have always been poor and now fewer than 10%. >> this is terrific. what you are describing is the trend and the signal that doesn't make news any given day, but the bigger tidal wave in the long run. we cover what happens on a particular day, but not what happens on every day. we missed the industrial revolution story and we are missing the progress.
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>> not on this show. thank you, sir. next on gps, china delivers a death blow to america. that's what happens metaphorically at the end of china's top grossing movie ever and submitted the film for the oscars. i will you about it when we come back. >> tech: at safelite autoglass we know that when you're spending time with the grandkids... ♪ music >> tech: ...every minute counts. and you don't have time for a cracked windshield. that's why at safelite, we'll show you exactly when we'll be there. with a replacement you can trust. all done sir. >> grandpa: looks great! >> tech: thanks for choosing safelite. >> grandpa: thank you! >> child: bye! >> tech: bye! saving you time... so you can keep saving the world. >> kids: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪
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>> the american dream isn't what it once was, but social mobility is rising in other nations. in which one of the following countries have the first 2o% of the population seen their wealth grow twice as fast as the
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richest 20%? france, canada, switzerland or japan. stay tuned and we will tell you the correct answer. my book of the week is devil's bargain. this is the book i found truly enlightening on the relationship of donald trump is his once chief strategist steve bannon, but on the bigger issue of the rise of populism in america today. now for the last look. the award season picked up with sunday's golden globes and announcements will be announced for the oscars, but you may have missed one of the biggest blockbusters. wolf warrior 2s the story of a soldier fighting in a fictional afternoon can nation amid the outbreak of an epidemic. it is china's highest grossing film ever. the ramboesque hero rescues civilians from a host of bad
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guys with an american mercenary named big daddy. the recent new york article titled making china great again pointed out that the movie reflects the reality of china's increasing presence on the world stage. in recent years china has been beefing up military assets and the movie reflects that. it is filled with high tech weaponry and ultra reice is missiles and even big daddy is impressed. the movie suggests that china is a leader in a peaceful global order. they have weigh in before china will attack the bad guys. the rescue copter with the un insignia and they acknowledge that they have the status as a un security council order.
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in the midst of an evacuation, an american doctor calls the em bass tow check on the status of her rescuers only to to hear this message. in an america first world, china is filling the vacuum in real life and on the big screen. the answer to the question is b. according to an analysis, canada has seen remarkable levels of upward social mobility in the poorest citizens lately. between 2013 and 2016, they have seen wealth grow by 24%, twice as fast as the wealthiest over that period. in the u.s., the trend is reversed. the poorest 20% issy have seen
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net worth and the number was much higher, 20% higher. it looks like the american dream might well have moved up north. thanks for being part of my program this week. i will see you again next week. >> the president under fresh fire for his vulgar comments. >> i think he is a racist. >> you are saying flat out the president did not say those words? >> i'm saying this is a gross misrepresentation. >> i didn't hear that word. >> you are saying it didn't happen or you don't recall. >> i'm saying i didn't hear it. >> all of the state of hawaii is reeling from a phony missile alert. >> i didn't want to stick around to see if the place was going to get blown up or