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tv   CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin  CNN  March 5, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PST

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welcome back. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. we have some breaking news here in this whole russia investigation. we are waiting for that white house press briefing to begin any minute now, by the way, so keep your eyes and ears peeled for that. but this is coming out of "the washington post," josh dawsey has the scoop. former trump aide, sam nunberg has been subpoenaed by a federal
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grand jury and he has refused to go, saying let him arrest me. mr. mueller should understand i am not going in on friday. this is a direct quote in josh dawsey's report. let me bring in josh dawsey. i imagine you're waiting for that briefing to begin, josh. tell me how this came about. >> sure. there was a subpoena floating around over the weekend. i think axios and others have reported it so i called sam today and asked him point blank, have you been subpoenaed to be in front of a grand jury? and what do they want? and sam kindly, he's the quintessential provocateur offered to forward me the subpoena and said he wanted to speak on the record. and in an on the record interview he gave me a few pretty explosive quotes. now, to be fair, we have not been able to reach the special counsel's office, but he forwarded a lengthy e-mail from his lawyer that says when they
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wanted him to come in. as of friday, we know the grand jury usually meets on friday. they also forwarded a document with lots of names and very specific legal language and he said he plans not to comply and would be willing to go to jail. now, whether he will back down or not, who knows. but right now he's the star of the show and that's the say sam nunberg likes it. >> let me ask you the obvious question, which is why won't he show up? >> well, he says he doesn't want to come back to washington and spend all the money on a lawyer and spend the hours going through the documents. >> where is he right now, all the way back to washington? where is he? >> he's in new york. he lives in new york. >> okay. >> i don't know why he's not coming. i think he may be playing chicken with special counsel bob mueller here. you know, trying to avoid an appearance. but i think we've seen, brooke, several times with the special counsel, he takes these things
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pretty seriously, being lied to or people not cooperating in the investigation. i'm very curious to see if sam retains this position as the days pass. >> all right. josh, thank you. let me ask you to stand by. i'm bringing in jeff zeleny, our senior white house correspondent who having covered trump and the campaign, let's go back. remind us of who sam nunberg is and his history with the campaign. >> as josh as just saying, sam nunberg is a provocateur. he does seem to want to make this about himself, saying he would go through the possibility of being arrested here. he always points out in every interview that he does not like president trump. he fell out of favor with him pretty early on in the campaign. but that is -- he is still speaking out against this investigation, so if my memory serves, brooke, he left the campaign in the early summer to fall months, august, september of 2015 or so. that was very early, long before the iowa caucuses, before the
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new hampshire primary. he was a contemporary and a student basically of roger stone, who of course is the long-time republican operative who was working for the trump campaign. and so that's his role in this. so it's interesting. he is saying that he would not sit before the mueller team here to talk about all those e-mails and conversations and things. the time frame we're talking about of his involvement at least as far as we know is early on in the campaign. who knows where this is going from here. sam nunberg seems to be talking to most everyone except the mueller team here, so unclear where this is going -- >> jeff, here's sarah sanders. i don't mean to cut you off. let's dip in. >> first lady enjoyed their time today with prime minister and mrs. netanyahu. the bond between the united states and israel is the strongest it has ever been. the president's decision to recognize jerusalem as israel's capital made good on the promises of numerous past presidents and he appreciates prime minister netanyahu saying
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today that his decisive action will be remembered by the israeli people throughout the ages. our two nations stand united against terrorism and those who fund it as well as in our shared goal to build a more peaceful and prosperous middle east. before taking your questions today, i'd like to introduce you to a few special guests. we have here with us in the briefing room retired marine corps sergeant john peck and staff sergeant liam dwyer served in iraq and afghanistan. the president met both of them recently at walter reed. sergeant peck had a dramatic brain injury in iraq during his first tour of duty. after two years of therapy, he re-enlisted and deployed to afghanistan. while there he stepped on an ied and lost both arms and legs. he spent two years at walter reed and in 2016 received a double arm transplant. he is now doing physical and occupational therapy at walter reed and doing incredibly well. staff sergeant dwyer endured a
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roadside bomb explosion in iraq but he re-upped and later went to afghanistan. while there, he stepped on an ied resulting in the loss of his left leg and severe injuries to his right arm, leg and torso. doctors were able to save his limbs and reattach them through over 50 surgeries. after previously spending four years at walter reed, he is back there to receive additional surgeries in the coming months. thank you both for your service and for inspiring us all with your bravery, sense of duty and resilience. these men represent the very best of america and remind us why it's so important to make sure our great veterans get the care they deserve. transforming the department of veterans affairs has been one of the president's top priorities. we've announced plans for the va to shift veterans electronic medical records to the same system used by the defense department. this will end a decades-old rift in sharing information between the two agencies. the president signed an executive order to ensure veterans can receive care outside of the va system when
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needed. he signed into law a bill empowering senior va officials to fire failing employees who are not taking care of our vets. as a result, accountability is being restored. he signed into law a bill streamlining lengthy process that veterans undergo when appealing disability benefits claims. hundreds of thousands of vets are awaiting decisions regarding their appeals. the president is pushing the va to use the new streamlined process to work through the backlog as quickly as possible. he also signed a bill authorizing $2.1 billion in additional funds for the veterans choice program. this program helps vets facing long wait times or long distances from nearby va facilities by empower them to receive quality care outside of the va system. the white house has also set up a va hotline staffed by veterans to help vets needing assistance and quick answers. i can continue with the list but this should leave no doubt that president trump is serious about taking care of our veterans. they sacrifice so much for us and we must never let them down.
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thank you, sergeants peck and dwyer for being here with us today and i met them while we were at walter reed and they promised that they would be on their best behavior. but we'll see how that goes. if it gets really tough, i'm very happy to refer questions to both of them because i'm pretty sure as tough as they are, they could certainly handle anything that is thrown at them. but hopefully we don't have to do that. major, go ahead. >> sarah, under the heading of accountability, have you or the president read in full the ig report on secretary shulkin? are you satisfied with his response? is he in any jeopardy and does he retain the president's confidence? >> i know that is being reviewed. secretary shulkin has repaid i know several thousand dollars towards some of the travel costs of the trip that was in question and we're continuing to focus on a lot of the great work that's taking place at the va. while that's still under review. secretary shulkin has done a great job as i laid out several of the things that have happened.
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one of the reasons these guys are here is to continue pushing to make sure that we improve the va system and continue to put extra encouragement on the va secretary to make sure we're doing everything we can for veterans. >> in that report would you say the secretary's conduct was consistent with the standards the president has established for the va? >> again, as that continues to be under review, i can't go any further than i have already. >> the speaker of the house said he's very concerned urging the president not advance with his plan, that's a direct quote, and that a trade war could jeopardize the gains achieved through the tax cuts and tax reform. what's your reaction to speaker ryan? >> we have a great relationship with speaker ryan. we'll continue to have one but that doesn't mean we have to agree on everything. the president has been committed and talked about this for many years, particularly on the campaign trail, and the people came out loud and clear and supported this president, therefore, supporting the policies that he campaigned on. we want to solve the problem.
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we want -- the president believes in free, fair and reciprocal trade and hopes other countries will join him in pursuing that goal. the president wants to make sure that we're doing everything we can to protect american workers and to protect industries like the steel and aluminum industry that are so important to our country. >> nothing like this will jeopardize economic growth, as the speaker fears? >> the president feels strongly that we have to protect some of the industries that are the backbone of this country and we have to protect american workers. we can't ignore these industries. it's a matter of both economic and national security and something that he feels very strongly about and we're going to continue to move forward. john. >> so it looks like the deadline on daca is going to come and go today with no resolution. clearly any action that the white house would take has been suspended by the courts. what's the next step and what's your message to congress that seems so badly to want to fix daca and hasn't done anything to do it? >> look, i think it's absolutely terrible that congress has
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failed to act. the president gave congress six months and he also gave them a plan. he gave them four pillars that he wanted to see in legislation. legislation and principles that the majority of members of congress have supported in the past. they claim to want to fix daca. the president laid out a pathway and an exact way to do that. they failed to address it but we're still hopeful that congress will actually do their jobs, show up and get something done and fix this problem, not kick it down the road and ignore it. >> when it eventually gets to the supreme court, i expect you're expecting a favorable ruling from the supreme court. so then what happens? >> look, we fully expect to win on an appeal. if we need to go to the supreme court, we feel very confident there as well. but again it's congress' job to pass laws. the president has laid out what he wants to see and the sad part is, is that both republicans and democrats don't disagree on most of the merits of this legislation. the fact that they can't
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actually come together and get something done is pathetic and now they're using the courts as an excuse. they need to come to work and actually do what they were elected to do. >> if the court reinstates his authority to rescind the daca protections and congress doesn't act, is the president willing to back off on rescinding daca? >> i'm not going to get ahead of what the president may or may not do on that front. we're still asking congress to do their jobs. jordan. >> the president had some stuff words for u.s. allies today on trade, saying they were ripping off the u.s. just as much as our enemies. so has the president ruled out exceptions under these steel and aluminum tariffs for certain u.s. allies aor are those still on the table? >> we're still finalizing what the final deal will look like and i'm not going to get ahead of the president's announcement. >> it seems like many republicans including the house speaker were caught off guard by the president's decision as it relates to tariffs. were they caught off guard?
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were they given a heads up in any way? >> i think they should have been well aware since this is, again, something the president hasn't been shy about. he's been talking about this quite some time. if they were caught off guard, they haven't been listening to what he's been saying and talking about and how he has promised to make good trade deals and make free, fair and reciprocal trade in this country. >> is the president open to discussing this particular issue that he's at odds with the house speaker, trying to find some sort of compromise perhaps on this? >> i'm not going to get ahead of anything beyond where we are right now, but again, the president is going to do what he feels is necessary to protect american workers. >> you had mentioned last week that the white house was going to come out with a proposal on guns or to let congress know what it wanted to be done on guns. where is that proposal? >> we're continuing to have those conversations. the president has laid out some specific things and some specific places that he does support. for instance, again, reiterating
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the support for the cornyn bill as well as the stop gun violence act. those are two pieces of legislation that the president supports. we're going to continue some of the discussions that have been ongoing, continue to engage with congress as we lay out some more details of what we'd like to see. >> include the meeting that will take place on thursday with some of the leaders within the video game industry. >> regarding moving the embassy to jerusalem, the president said that it was going to cost $250,000 to build the u.s. embassy there? what was he referring to or did he mean by that? >> i think the point is that he's making is he's going to do it faster and far less expensive than a billion dollar project as was projected. jonathan. on the tariffs, the president tweeted that trade wars are good, easy to win. can you explain what he meant by that? >> look, the president, i think, is very confident that if that's where we ended up, we certainly
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would win. but that's not the goal. the goal is to get free, fair and reciprocal trade and hope that other countries will join in. >> and paul ryan is practically pleading with the president to reverse course on this. are you saying that there's no way he's going to reverse course on this? >> the president said today that he wasn't backing down, but in terms of the specifics of what it looks like, i'm not going to get into that right now because those things are being finalized. >> so it's possible some of the details may change? >> we haven't fully rolled out all of the details and so, therefore, it would be hard for me to say that they're going to change. >> but the top line, he said 25% tariff on steel imports, 10% tariff on aluminum imports that would apply to everybody. are those details going to change? >> i'm not going go any further than the comments he's already made. any other details we'll let you know when we're ready. ashley. >> we're already talked about secretary shulkin but secretary pruitt is under scrutiny for his
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travel for taxpayer dollars and secretary carson under scrutiny for the $31,000 dining set he bought. >> i believe that was actually cancelled. >> after media scrutiny. i wonder if you could specifically for both of those men explain the white house view and take in all three of the secretaries' behavior and prodly explain how you believe this fits the pattern of draining the swamp. >> as the president has said, he takes spending taxpayer dollars very seriously. all of those individual secretaries' travel and other are under review. i can't speak to them further while that is ongoing. >> can you explain how this behavior is consistent with the president's directive to drain the swamp? >> look, that's why they're under review. once that is completed we'll have more information but i can't get into anything further right now. >> earlier in the oval office the president said he thought the palestinians were wanting to come back to the table to talk about mideast peace. can you say what he's basing that on? >> i can only tell you that
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we're as committed today as we've ever been to the peace process and we're going to continue having those conversations and pushing to get something done. >> but is he seeing something the rest of us aren't seeing? >> he sees a lot of things that everybody else isn't seeing but i can't get in any further than that right now. kristen. >> sarah, i want to ask you about some breaking news that we're just getting. sam nunberg, the president's former campaign aide, is refusing a subpoena by a grand jury. he just said i think he, meaning the president, may have done something during the election but i don't know that for sure. your reaction? >> well, i definitely think he doesn't know that for sure because he's incorrect. as we've said many times before, there was no collusion with the trump campaign. anything further on what his actions are, he hasn't worked at the white house, so i certainly can't speak to him or the lack of knowledge that he clearly has. >> what's your reaction to him not cooperating with the grand jury, refusing this subpoena? would you encourage all of these witnesses to come forward and tell their stories?
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>> look, i'm not going to weigh into somebody that doesn't work at the white house. i can tell you from our perspective, we are fully cooperating with the office of the special counsel. we're going to continue to do so. and i'll reiterate once again the reason we are so comfortable doing so is because there is absolutely no collusion within the trump campaign and any foreign government. >> let me just ask you one on trade. commerce secretary wilbur ross was asked if there was any possibility that the president could change his mind on these new tariffs. he said whatever his final decision is is what will happen. what he has said, he has said. if he says something different, it will be something different. if this was a carefully thought-out policy, sarah, why the mixed messaging? >> i don't think there is mixed messaging. this is a decision -- >> but he doesn't know what the final decision will be. >> this is a decision that will ultimately be made by the president. and so there are a lot of legal details that are being finalized and the secretary is not going to get ahead of that and certainly not going to get ahead
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of the president. at the end of the day, this is going to be something that the president makes a decision on and he's going to do so fully with the idea of doing what he can to protect american workers and to promote economic and national security. april. >> two questions. two topics. what, if any, shift was there today in jared kushner's position as it relates to the meetings with netanyahu today? >> none at all that i'm aware of sdplf so as it relates to security clearance, he's still -- i mean he doesn't have the security clearance he had. >> as we've said many times before, i'm not going to comment on any individual security clearance. >> but he still got to carry on duties today in that meeting? >> his role wasn't impacted today. >> and second question, father pfleger from chicago has written president trump at least twice in reference to chicago and gundguns and you say you're going to
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continue conversations about guns. would he be someone that you would bring to the table as he is someone who is on the ground with gangs and dealing with the issue of guns, something that's a focal point of this president, chicago as well? >> i would have to look into that. i'm not aware of the individual or the letters, and so would have to look into that before i could make a comment on it. >> does the president believe we should take guns from people who are dangerous before due process, as he said last week? >> the president thinks that we need to expedite the process. he wants to make sure that if somebody is potentially harmful to themselves or other people, that we have the ability to expedite that process. certainly still want to have due process but we want to make sure that it's not tied up for months and months and months and someone that could potentially be dangerous is allowed to have a gun without us being able to expedite that process. that's what he'd like to see us do. peter. >> we reported today that the president's private attorney, michael cohen, had trouble reaching him toward the end of
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the campaign to talk about the $130,000 payment to stephanie clifford. did the president and michael cohen talk about this payment at any time during the campaign or thereafter? >> not that i'm aware of and i'd refer you to michael on that. >> i want to ask a follow-up on the mideast peace process. it's been more than a year since prime minister netanyahu's first visit here to president trump. he said a year ago that the administration worked to achieve a peace deal, he'd be doing it very diligently. why hasn't the administration put forward a proposal yet or framework for how it sees peace in the middle east playing out? >> we'll do that when we think the time is right but we'll continue pushing forward. we're as committed now as we've ever been and we want to continue in this process. we'll let you know when we have an announcement on what that plan would look like. >> has there been any progress, at least in this administration, toward achieving some type of proposal, why would that be? >> look, again, we're not going to get ahead of where we are in this process. the conversations are still
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ongoing. this wasn't a problem that was created in a short amount of time. i don't think we're going to fix it overnight but it's something we're certainly very committed to fixing and to being part of and we're going to continue those conversations and continue pushing for that peace. john. >> thank you, sarah. two brief questions. first, "the new yorker" is carrying a story in which the former british agent, christopher steele, claims that russian sources within the kremlin torpedoed the nomination of governor romney to be secretary of state because he's a sworn enemy of the putin regime. the administration's response to that claim? >> i'm not aware of anything regarding that and don't know that to be factual in any capacity at all. blake -- sorry. >> my other question -- >> two questions. >> yeah. when the president announced the tariffs on china, he said they would be in effect for a very
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long time. i'm curious, why didn't he simply say until china relents on its policy on steel and give a set goal for the tariffs? >> look, again, the president's ultimate goal is to get free, fair and reciprocal trade. if china wants to come to the table and play ball and make some significant changes, then we'd be open to those conversations. but at this point we haven't seen an indication of that taking place. i'll take one last question. blake. >> and to end with trade, there was a study released today showing that this would be a -- the president's proposals a net loss of 146,000 jobs. has the white house studied how many jobs may be lost or created because of his policies? >> look, this is something the president is committed to doing and he feels that both our national security are vitally important in this process and we have to be able to have these industries to protect that. so that's a big part of the
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goal. >> no studies? >> i'm not going to say that we're not looking at every facet of this because we certainly are. it's been a very thoughtful and long process. but that is the focus of the decision that he's making. >> the president's close friend, carl icahn, is out there that he sold $31 million of stock of a company related to this whole issue just before the president made his announcement, can you tell us the last time the president has spoken with mr. icahn and whether or not he told mr. icahn what he was planning. >> i'm not aware of a recent conversation between the two of them so i'd have to verify and get back to you. i'm not aware of in irecent conversations. thanks, guys. i'm going to let these -- i'll let these guys take a break and if they want to say anything, they're welcome certainly to make a quick comment before we leave. >> can you speak to the morale in the white house after friday it was said morale has never been lower?
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>> i definitely would not agree. we have an incredible story to tell. it's been an historic first year and we're continuing to focus on the things that president trump campaigned on. we're excited about what we've done and where we're going and we're going to continue working hard for the american people. thanks. i'm going to let these guys take a break, thanks, guys. >> sara, this is the third briefing you have not taken a question from cnn. do you expect the justice department to enforce all subpoenas, sarah? >> all right. jim acosta there at the end trying to get a question in. so you heard it, a lot of topics covered but we really wanting to hone in on this sam nunberg story. this is our breaking news we were talking about before this white house briefing began. we're talking about a former trump aide. the news is that he refuses to appear before a federal grand jury. i've got a panel with me here now to just sort of talk through, again, we're talking to josh dawsey who broke this for
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"the washington post" and he referred to nunberg as this quintessential provocateur who at some point had this falling out with trump. you know much more about him. remind people, if sam nunberg isn't a household name, who is this guy? >> so this is an aide, and i remember from covering the trump campaign particularly in the early stages, this was an aide who was very close to roger stone. was sort of a partner with him in the efforts, the early efforts to get the trump campaign on its feet. i have to say i think this idea that we might be surprised that mueller might be interested in some of the communications that he might have had with former trump officials or trump campaign officials, we shouldn't be surprised. we know that mueller is casting a very wide net. we know that he is interested in campaign officials, transition folks, to people who have worked at the white house. so the fact that he has had sam
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nunberg has had outreach from mueller shouldn't be surprising. the question as to why he is now publicly saying i don't plan on cooperating with the subpoena, i don't know the answer to that. but i think it's not clear right now whether that stance is tenable to go on television to talk to a reporter publicly -- >> in his quote, forgive me for cutting you off. this is a stunning quote he gave. let him arrest me, this is sam nunberg. let him arrest me. mr. mueller should understand i am not going in on friday. who says that ? >> right. and we don't know whether that is tenable. we don't know whether sam will change his mind tomorrow, if there's a reason that he felt frustrated and just wanted to go out and say that today. it is a serious, a very, very serious thing to say to -- in response to a subpoena request from bob mueller saying i'm just simply not going to cooperate. >> i want to bring you in, but let me hit pause because speaking of sam nunberg talking a lot, thank goodness, he
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actually just talked to gloria borger, just talked to him on the phone moments ago and here is what sam nunberg told gloria. >> sam, thank you for doing this, but it is really surprising news here that you are not going to comply with the subpoena from the special counsel. can you tell us why? >> because it was absolutely ridiculous. look, they requested from me -- i was trying to do for the last two days, and what they requested was they wanted every communication that i had with roger stone and steve bannon, who i talked to frequently. they asked for communications with carter page. are you giving me a break? do you think i would ever talk to that moron? >> so it was only those three people they wanted information on? >> no, no. also -- i'll send you the full subpoena. >> okay. okay. >> you know what, mr. mueller,
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mr. mueller, i've been warned not to go after him. i've been warned that you're wrong, that he'll take you down. you know what? why should i give him every communication i've had from november 1 of 2015 with my mentor, roger stone, and with steve bannon? >> well, do you believe that there's -- that there's any reason that they're suspicious of either of those people? i mean you've -- why else would they want that information? >> i think it's an absolute joke to believe that anybody was colluding with the russians. once again -- >> do you believe that the special counsel has something on donald trump? >> i suspect that they suspect something about him. >> and what makes you think that? >> i can't explain it.
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>> well, try. give me the thought behind -- >> the way they asked about his business dealings, the way they asked if you had heard anything even during while i was fired, it just -- it just made me suspect that they suspect something about him. now, gloria, he may very well have not done anything. but the other thing i will tell you is irregardless of whether or not he had money coming to him during the election, okay, during the general, he won that election and he doesn't get credit for it. >> right. but the question -- i guess the question is, are they asking about donald trump's business dealings to you and that gave you reason to believe that they were interest ed in that area?
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>> yes. yes. >> so they asked about three or four mo-- trump tower moscow, i presume? >> yes. >> and they asked about trump tower in new york? >> yes. they asked pretty -- they asked questions to me that i understand they're doing their due diligence. >> right. >> but, gloria, they were pretty ridiculous. >> like what? >> they asked questions to me in terms of did i hear russian spoken around trump tower? no, gloria, i never heard russian spoken around trump tower, okay? now, i understand why they have to ask that, but it was pretty ridiculous to me. >> well, but -- so getting back to this and to the whole question of roger stone, for example, and i know you say he's your mentor. do you have any sense what they're interested in about roger stone? >> yeah, they think that roger colluded with julian assange. i can tell you roger did not collude with julian assange.
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>> so they think -- and why do you believe they think he colluded with julian assange, because he was communicating -- >> because they flat out asked me about it. >> what was their question exactly? >> their question was -- they had a theory that -- okay, gloria, let's get it out here. i was fired, correct? >> yes. >> okay. roger quit after i was fired. >> right. >> roger quit, gloria, and i will tell you on the record the way i told them. roger quit because he was absolutely disgusted by the way i was treated, okay? i worked for trump for four and a half years. i came up with the wall, i came up with the muslim ban, i came up with everything to attack jeb bush, all that stuff. okay? now trump used it, trump was the
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only one who could effectively do it. >> right. so you -- >> gloria, roger quit. >> you were fired. right. >> corey wanted to push us out. >> right. >> okay? that's the reality. >> mm-hmm, right. right. >> now, trump loves corey. i don't know why he does. i think -- by the way, trump always had separate -- trump always had -- he treated roger and me differently than he treated everybody else. now, roger is more loyal to trump than me. i don't care. >> you're not protecting donald trump? sam, you're not protecting donald trump? >> no, i'm not protecting him. but he didn't do anything. you know what he did? he won the election. >> so why do you think they want you in the grand jury?
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>> they want me to testify against roger. they want to -- >> they want you to testify against roger -- >> they want me to say that roger was going around telling people he was colluding with julian assange. that's what they want. i'm not going to do it. >> and that did not occur, according to you? >> no, it did not. >> so you didn't come across anything in your e-mails or your communications or anything between you and roger or you and anyone in the campaign that led you to say today i'm not going to testify? >> no, i didn't. i just came around having to spend 80 hours over the weekend, i started this, gloria, on saturday. >> right. >> they wanted it by 3:00 p.m. today. they want me over -- they want me over at the grand jury. screw that! why do i have to go? why? for what? >> well, i would assume the
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reason they want you is because they -- there was something perhaps you told them in your fbi interview that was of some interest to them. >> no. they want to just pull people in. and you know what? i'm not a donald trump fan, as i told you before, okay? he treated me like crap. >> right. >> but when i'm in there and they ask me to go to the grand jury after i sat there for close to five and a half hours, gloria, i'm not going back in. >> but what was it that you said -- sam, what was it that you -- don't you think it might have been because of something you said to them, that they would want you back to testify before the -- or they would want you to testify before the special counsel? i mean if you think pack back tr five and a half hours with the fbi interviews, what was it that you think made them say we need to get sam nunberg in front of a grand jury? >> they wanted -- they probably
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want to know about miss universe 2013 if i had to guess. >> and what was it about miss universe? >> i think that -- there was nothing there. but they want to hear the testimony. they want to hear what other people said and perhaps other people told them different things than i heard. i can tell you, gloria -- >> what did you say, though, about -- >> gloria, i never spoke to the president directly about it, then mr. trump. i was told that if you had asked him, he would lie and tell you that putin was there. okay, fine. i was told that that idiot had offered to send women up to trump's room but trump didn't want it. he's too smart for that, he didn't want it. >> who told you this?
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>> keith schilling. >> oh. >> and have you communicated with keith schiller, his bodyguard, right? >> i used to deal with him directly. >> so what did keith schiller say to you? when you were told i heard that the russians offered to send women -- >> no, i was told they offered to accepted women up there and trump flat-out refused it. trump did flat-out refuse it. and i can tell you that trump is too smart to have women come up to his room. >> and so keith schiller told you this? >> correct. >> and have you spoken with keith schiller about this recently? >> no, i have not. the last time i spoke to keith -- the last time i spoke to keith, i saw him in the white house when i was there when steve bannon invited me. >> okay. but you're assuming, getting back to the premise here, you're assuming that the reason the special counsel wants you before
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the grand jury is to talk about miss universe 2013 and what occurred during that -- >> first of all, i -- well, actually i don't know why. whatever they want i can tell you i'm not going in. it's ridiculous. the idea that we were the m manchurian candidate. gloria, we were a joke. the idea that we were colluding with the russians? give me a break. >> is that what you think the special counsel is getting at or it sounds to me from some of your other answers you think he's looking into the more financial side of donald trump's life? >> he may. i don't know what he's looking into. >> well -- >> he may. he may. and you know what? trump may have very well done something during the election with the russians. >> what makes you -- >> and if you find it out if he did that, i don't know. if he did that, you know what,
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it's inexcusable. if he did that. if he had some deal -- we already know that michael cohen was trying to do trump tower moscow, gloria. >> and that deal never went through, as you know. that letter of intent never happened. >> that deal -- correct, that deal never went through. >> right. so all i'm asking you is from -- why, i guess, to get to the bottom of this, sam, is why after your fbi interview for five and a half hours do you think the special counsel wants you back? you say maybe to talk about trump tower moscow, which was 2013 -- i'm sorry, miss universe, which was 2013. >> why do i -- gloria, am i the first person you ever heard to flat-out say i'm not going in? >> i think so. i think so, yes. but -- >> and you know what i'm not going to do? i'm not going to build a case that they're trying to build. >> well, what is the case you think -- go ahead.
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>> well, look, you had mueller indict russians for what? he indicted russians for what? it was like -- >> i'm losing you. sam, i think i lost you. now i got you, keep going again. >> let me take this for two seconds, okay? >> i don't think so. can you just hold on for a minute. i just want to ask you a couple more questions, sam, okay? >> okay. >> one is who else have you talked to about their fbi interviews? have you talked to other people about their grand jury testimony? >> i don't want to go into it. >> okay. >> there's one person i talked to. i'm not going into it. >> and have you talked to them about the general direction without naming names then, about the general direction that you think mueller is going in? >> yes. mueller thinks that trump is the
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manchurian candidate. >> i'm sorry, he thinks he's what? >> he thinks trump is the manchurian candidate, and i will tell you i disagree with that. >> wow. the man you just heard talking openly and quite candidly on national television. this is the former campaign aide who is refusing a grand jury subpoena to testify. gloria borger conducted that wide-ranging interview. she is joining me live. she's joining me now. my goodness, where to begin. i guess -- wow, there's a lot to get to. the piece is why is he refusing to appear, right? and he said -- he said to you it was absolutely ridiculous and ignorant. >> right. he said that he really -- there's no reason, that he said everything he needed to say in his five and a half hours of testimony. he didn't want to go back to those e-mails, that he communicates a lot with roger
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stone, and i asked him if there was anything in particular that he came across that perhaps he didn't want. he said no, but there's no reason he's going to defy it. it's clear to me, though, that in that five and a half hours, if you listen to what he was saying, he did talk a lot about miss universe and about the russians trying to send women to trump's room, which according to keith schiller, the president's bodyguard, he refused. so it would be interesting to me that they perhaps would want to ask him about that in 2013. they might want to ask him about the letter of intent on trump tower moscow in 2015. his relationship with roger stone, whom he says they believe is working with julian assange, and he says that's not true. roger stone is his mentor. and the one thing to keep in
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mind here is that sam nunberg was fired from the trump campaign. and so he didn't leave donald trump on good terms. now, people come in and out of donald trump's life, as we know, but he did not leave the campaign on good terms. and he said to me that he's not looking to cover up for donald trump in any way. >> okay. stay with me, gloria. >> yeah. >> i have a full crew to discuss what we just heard, starting with you, jamie gangel, what did you make of that? >> first i have to say gloria's interview was brilliant and i've never seen anything like it. it was bizarre. i did not know of sam nunberg before today, but we did a little research. and to say that he is a colorful character -- >> is an understatement. >> is an understatement. and his mentor is roger stone, who is also a very colorful character. and a lot of what we heard there sounded as if he was also
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grabbing his 15 minutes of fame. he won't listen to the subpoena, but he'll talk to a reporter about everything that's being asked. and part of what he said beyond that was he took credit for coming up with -- >> the wall. >> the trump campaign -- it was his idea to come up with the wall. it was my idea to come up with the muslim ban. i mean this is a very unusual person. just -- my mother is a judge. let me just say you cannot say a subpoena is ridiculous, give me a break, to use his language. >> there's not an option related. >> this is not option related, no. >> right. rich? >> well, sam nunberg was part of the c team that was replaced by the b team that was eventually replaced by what some consider an a team. so he was very earl y on.
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he was not a respected person. he is taking the carter page part of this and going out and saying whatever he wants but this come and get me copper attitude is fine couple days on cable tv, talking to reporters. but if it really comes to it, he's not going to go to jail to refuse the subpoena and his justification for not complying is not very compelling. it's just that he doesn't want to be troubled with it and he thinks the whole investigation is ridiculous. >> we're going sneak a quick break in. paul callen has taken a seat. we'll talk about what his lawyers must be thinking, how many hairs they have pulled out of their own heads listening to him speak so openly and candidly on national television. quick break, we're back in just a moment. st worried about the house and taking care of the boys. zach! i got a job.for the h.
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back on breaking news. back on this whole sam nunberg story. his mentor is roger stone, another colorful character. jamie gangel is right describing him that way. caitlin collins our white house roger stone, the fact that
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nunberg is refusing to appear for the subpoena for the grand jury. roger stone said this. i was briefly part of the trump campaign and have been the president's friend and advisor for decades and would expect that mueller's team would at some point ask for any documents or e-mails sent or written by me, but let me reiterate, i have no knowledge or involvement in russian collusion or any other inappropriate act. >> what say you? >> he strikes me as somebody who stayed too late at an academy award party last night. these stramts completely bizarre. when you receive a grand jury subpoena, it is a good sign in some respects. it means you're probably not the target of the investigation. if they're targeting you, previous to advise you of your right to remain silent and give you a whole host of warnings before they call and you there's a justice department policy against calling targets into the grand jury. it is unfair to them. they should take the fifth
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amendment. it is a good sign. but secondly, if you defy a grand jury subpoena, it is a very serious thing. you're almost automatically held in contempt of court. the usual punishment is you're thrown into prison while the grand jury sits. i've seen cases where grand juries have sat for a year. it is certainly possible this glag sit for another six to nine months. he could be in jail by that time. assuming he's not suffering from some kind of mental illness, he's indicated a deliberate attempt to defy the lawful processes of the grand jury and the federal courts. i can tell that you federal judges don't look very kindly on that activity. so this is a man destined for prison after his 15 minutes of fail this afternoon. >> stand by. another quick break. whoooo.
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get internet on our gig-speed network and add voice and tv for $34.90 more per month. call 1-800-501-6000. as we continue following this breaking news, we just heard how sam nunberg could go to prison for his refusal to respond to the subpoena. there is someone else we can think back to in wirt whitewater. >> she went to jail for 22 months. most of it on contempt because she wouldn't answer a few questions on bill clinton before a grand jury. she was very motivated, she was very close to clinton. she did this. but that sam nunberg at the end of the day will be happy sitting in a jail cell rather handle the
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comply, i find hard to believe. >> and i was struck in the interview with gloria, the tone he was taking about talking about president trump, his former boss. i remember early in the days, he was very loyal to trump. he was very outspoken and talking to reporters in the same way roger stone was. and now he's saying, the wall was my thing. i came up with that. the muslim thing was my idea. and trump treated me like crap so we are aware there's bad blood there. and people might not remember this now, he didn't get i know what corey lewandowski and hope hicks. so there were a lot of dynamic that's may or may not play out in this investigation. and i think this is just a good moment to give ourselves the periodic reminder of how little we know that the mueller investigation. we have little bits and pieces that come in every afternoon.
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who knows, sam nunberg could be a blip or more significant than we assume. >> 15 seconds. >> what are in these e-mails? he says he doesn't have a problem. why all of a sudden after talking for five and a half hours did he decide to do this today? >> so much we don't know. we'll be back in a moment.
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that does it for me today. good to be back in the chair. let's send it to washington with "the lead" with jake tapper. right now. a former trump campaign ad says let them arrest me. he won't abide by the subpoena. "the lead" starts now. breaking news. trump campaign aide of past days sam nunberg said robert mueller has subpoenaed him to the grand but he won't go. what will mueller do next? with the white house being described as one ally as pure madness, are we seeing the chaos reflected in his policies? one minute he says trade wars are easy. the next minute he doesn't think there will be trade wars. which is it? a self-proclaimed sex expert will talk about the trump campaign and russia but