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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  July 22, 2018 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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with president putin. >> for one more state of the union exclusive i want to offer a special welcome to the newest welcome of team tapper. our producer had a baby boy. charles david austin, jr. he is gorgeous. thank you for joining us. fareed zakaria starts right now. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live today. on the show today, trump, putin, the helsinki summit and the aftermath. the meeting raised many more questions than it answered. >> i think that the united states has been foolish. i think we've all been foolish. >> just what is the state of u.s./russian relations and what should it be? i have a great panel to discuss
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it all. also the 2018 election is just over 100 days away. what could russia do this time to try to meddle? and how about china or north korea? the cyber war expert david sanger tells us what we should really be worried about. and france's extraordinary world cup win and the innovative program that brought the nation to victory. what the mow sayic of different colors, national origins and national cultures can teach us all. but first, here's my take. donald trump's press conference in helsinki was the most emembarrassing performance by an american president i can think of. his disaster attempts to talk
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himself out of trouble made it more absurd. as trump tweeted, our relationship with russia has never been worse thanks to many years of u.s. foolishness and stupidity. now this is a serious issue worth takeing seriously. the idea that washington lost russia has been around since the mid 1990s. i know because i was one of the people who made that case. i argued in 1998 that washington was not ambitious enough in the aid it offered russia nor was it understanding enough of that country's security concerns. i continue to believe that george h.w. bush and clinton may have missed an opportunity to transform russia. but it has become clear why there are many reasons why u.s./russian relations might have been destined to der tier rate. russia in the early 1990s was in
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a period of unusual weakness. it lost its 300-year-old sarist empire. in this context, it watched as the united states expanded nato, intervened against its allies in the ball kins. from america's vantage point locking in the security of the newly liberated countries of eastern europe was an urgent matter. it worried the war was destabilizing europe and creating a nightmare. and they could not condone the wars in chechnya in which tens of thousands of civilians were killed and much of the region destroyed. in addition by the late 1990s russia was moving away from a democratic path. by the mid 1990s the tally for
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democratic elections never went above 20%. communist, hyper nationalist, received about 35% on average. and once putin came to power the move towards ill liberal democracy and outright author tear nichl became unstoppable. they had more areas of contention with the united states. they argued over the color revolution. it looked on the establishment of democracy in iraq. and george w. bush's freedom agenda might seem to putin to destabilize his regime. and a doubling of per capita gdp and cash flowing into the kremlin's covers. a new russia looked at its region with a more ambitious
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gaze and sitting adopt the power he created, putin began to restore russian influence and undermine the west and its democratic values. what happened since, georgia and ukraine, the cyber attacks against western countries have all been in the service of that strategy. so yes, the west and america might have missed an opportunity to transform russia in the early 1990 saint vinces. we don't know if it would have worked but we know there were darker forces growing in russia from the beginning that those forces took over almost two decades ago and since then it is russia that has chosen to become the principal foe of america and the american created world order. for more go to and read my column this week. let's get started.
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let's keep going. we have a terrific panel today, david recommend nick, the editor of the new yorker and author. andre kosarev was russia's foreign minister minister, the first after the fall of the soviet union, and steve savage vich was the ambassador under president clinton. katrina, you think we're all overacting to the helsinki summit. explain. >> i think we need sober realism on russia, fareed. we need more reason, less talk
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of treason. the open letter, yes, the mueller investigation must proceed, must be protelkted. but we must do everything we can to accident occsecure and prote election. that means protection against dark money, voter suppression, partisan gerrymandering and reduce conflict with russia. these are the two countries that control 90% of the world's nuclear weapons. so i think it's vital. our weapon was signed by people like ambassador matlock. by gloria stein hyheimsteinheim. these are people that understand that cold war is lousy for citizens, for women, for children, for progressives, deplete resources, empower war
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parties. we need a debate, fareed and i thank you for inviting me on. there's a lock down in the media. it's a one handed clapping when it comes to the u.s. having a relationship with russia. understanding putin is an authoritarian figure. also understanding the nation's open letter wassi published by e leading paper against russia. many journalists i know will speak to this too because we both worked in moscow off and on for many years. russian journalists are looking at america and wondering if we're losing our head and doing more to make the view of putin sort of infallible when he's a
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man that should be poked at and not treated in this hyper way. it's a very dangerous moment, fareed. >> let me bring in david remnick. >> katrina says it's common sense to have good relations with russia. that's what donald trump says. >> the problem is not having good relations with russia, who would not want that. you have the two biggest powers in nuclear history on the face of the earth. of course you want a modicum of decent relations between these two countries. the problem is, this cannot be overlooked, the president of the united states seems absolutely oblivious to the demands of rigoro rigorous diplomacy. he goes on television in front of the russian leader and says what he says in helsinki. he clearly doesn't want to think
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that russia interfered in the 2016 elections. he clearly wants to deny what his own director of intelligence is telling him, that russia continues -- i think he used the word red alert, continues to interfere in the upcoming elections. it's the combination of naivete, strangene strangeness, and also an ideological affinity with the worst tendencies in the globe today. which is to say an authoritarian movement, ill liberal democracy, which is getting worse, whether it's in poland, hungary, france, the right wing parties there. these are the tendencies that donald trump is aligning himself with and at the same time telling all kinds of untruths. so the idea that there would be suspicion about his motives when, in fact, his campaign manager is about to go into
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court, when, in fact, his national security advisor is in trouble with the law, and so much else. i can't agree that we should have a completely calm head when it comes to donald trump, the president of the united states. this is a very dangerous situation. i want good relations with russia, china, not just our friends, but adversaries, too. i'm not out of my mind we want that. but the problem is we're living in an emergency when the president of the united states behaves the way he does. >> andre, you understand the inside of russian foreign policy. it did strike me that donald trump was saying some things that seemed very much like putin's talking points, for example the montenegro example is one that putin has raised often why is nato expanding to montenegro, what is the purpose? couldn't that drag the world into world war iii were there
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you have donald trump saying that. do you think putin succeeded in the summit in getting his point of view across to donald trump? >> fareed, tell me that the summit never happened in helsinki and there is no bromance between trump and putin, and i will tell you that there is a lot of hope to have -- to get america to make america great again, but only if those things were just kind of unimaginable. what is really dangerous to my mind, fundamentally, is that it's first time ever american president offered to russian counterpart, in his tweet -- in trump's tweet, the new basis for
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relationship and the new basis for discussions. and the basis is that america is to be blamed for its stupidity. and -- i'm sorry i have a little flu. for its stupidity and foolishness, i think is quotation, that america is to be blamed for the troubles in relationships. of course, putin cannot but rejoice on that. that's why my former deputy, sergei lavrov said it's more better than super. and that's wrong foundation and i don't -- i can't believe it happens that it's american.
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and proceeding from this basis offered to russia, of course, putin is saying this for decades that it's america has to change its behavior all over the agenda and here he is. i mean, he'll be very, very helpful to cooperate on this basis. so the problem is not having normal or benign relations, but the relations based on the idea that it was all american fault, stupidity or whatever. and that america has to correct its behavior. that really makes this emergency situation, to my mind. it is emergency situation. >> steve, the polish foreign
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minister had an article where he said, look, as america's allies we are all now very nervous. we wonder whether the united states will actually back up its -- i should say the former polish foreign minister, we wonder whether america will back up its promises, whether the alliance is strong. i'm hearing this from european ally after european ally they all wonder in light of the way he trashed america's allies in europe and then praised putin, what is america trying to achieve? destroy nato or erode the european alliance? >> fareed, the allies after the nato summit in brussels have had a kind of freak out, but you know most american allies want good relations between the united states and russia.
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katrina is right that most americans want good relations between the united states and russia. the issue is does the president have any idea about how to achieve that goal? what are the requirements of it? one requirement, as katrina suggested, is a debate although he makes it harder to have a debate because everybody has to gang up against him, and has to because he requires it. the requirements of better russian/american relations are to start with a certain kind of unity in the united states and in the u.s. government. we're in the unique situation of having a president who has his entire administration and the congress against him on a major foreign policy issue. he can't do this by himself. second requirement is unity within the alliance. he's threatened that. a third requirement is some kind of leverage. the president seems to be interested in reducing our
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leverage. the incentives that we give russia to act responsibly. he wants a big deal in syria, for example, and yet his clear goal is to get out of syria. that isn't going to give putin much reason to think he has to take our views into account. on the basis of certain kind of unity, leverage, you can move russian/american relations forward. i think we often exaggerate how bad they are. in the past four years, after a major challenge from russia in the ukraine crisis we've had a coming together of the alliance, we've had more resources devoted to deterring russia. we've had greater caution in some ways by the russians in europe. and the president would be in a position to harvest the benefits of that if he only understood
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what he was doing and didn't try to make this entirely his action. >> steve, i got to -- i got to take a break. when we come back, i will ask the question simply, does donald trump seem beholden to putin or is that too outlandish an idea? when we come back. wants customie options chains? ones that make it fast and easy to analyze and take action? how about some of the lowest options fees? are you raising your hand? good then it's time for power e*trade the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. alright one quick game of rock, paper, scissors. 1, 2, 3, go. e*trade. the original place to invest online. [music playing] across the country, we walk. carrying flowers that signify why we want to end alzheimer's disease. but what if, one day,
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well, esurance makes it simple and affordable. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. and we are back with davour panel. david, the "new york times" had a good column where they argued there are sort of three possibilities, i can't remember. one in three i remember well, which is number one this is all
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happening because of trump's narcissism. that he can't allow anything that delegitimizes his election to stand so he's bending over back wards to claim the russians didn't interfere. and three is putin really has something on him. i think two is something in between. what do you think is the reasonable conclusion to draw from trump's performance? >> i'm in the business of journalism and my view is not to get beyond the facts as they've been established. i do remember very well when people were doubting the fact that russia interfered in the election. now people have seemed to have come around to that. i do know that donald trump's business interests have been cast into severe doubt in terms of their legality. he does business with money launderers everywhere from georgia to new york.
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his staff went in search on information on hillary clinton. do i know there's collusion? i do not. i think the mueller investigation is crucial to that. we will find out. the great tragedy here is that we are so caught up in this, and legitimately so, i don't think it's something we're spinning our wheels on. but meanwhile, so many issues, where it has to do with environment, race, criminal justice or elsewhere are thrown into disarray by this when we're watching a president make a hash of foreign policies to such a degree, whether it's in north korea, great britain, the rest of europe or the russians that just on the sheer level of competency of a modicum of truth that we are watching a tragedy unfold every day and it's driving a large part of the
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country crazy. it has really been an going tragedy to watch. i can't tell you the end result of the mueller investigation, no one can. >> can let me ask you, this is a short block. why do you think donald trump is so nice about putin. he says terrible things about angela merkel, justin trudeau. but about putin, he's strong, decisive, i have confidence in him. that leads people to wonder what trump sees in putin? is this a reasonable conclusion people come to? >> i think the attack on angela merkel and theresa may show his
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misogynist side. i wish they would have done a little crook in his nose. but i will say, step back, there's no question as david said trump has infinity for strong men -- he's a con man, by the way, trump, not a strong man. but he didn't say anything about benjamin netanyahu, dutarte erdogan. there's no question trump has an affinity for these strong men. i will say stepping back opposition to trump and the nation is at the forefront of a fierce opposition to trump, what is doing to roll back the civilizing reforms of this country. and steve gets it right. we need to keep an eye on the importance of a working
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partnership, not a friendship, with russia to resolve syria, to resolve the nuclear proliferation that imperils us, to set rules of the road for cyber attacks. let's do a geneva convention, a global alliance. >> i got to cut you off, i got to take a break. >> i don't think the bromance is real. >> when we come back we'll talk about just that, which is what is the likelihood of america being able to achieve some of its foreign policy goals in light of this summit when we come back. is it to carry cargo... or to carry on a legacy? its show of strength... or its sign of intelligence? in crossing harsh terrain... or breaking new ground? this is the time to get an exceptional offer on the mercedes of your midsummer dreams at the mercedes-benz summer event, going on now. receive up to a $1,250 summer event bonus on select suvs. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.
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sent a lot of disturbing messages to people all around the world. here's the message i think it sent, double message to putin, one you may be able to get something for nothing, and second, you've got to help this guy, he doesn't know what he's doing. the message about getting something for nothing is that, you know, the american positions may crumble across the board. it's not clear whether the president believes any of the traditional principles of american policy. but the you got to help this guy message is also very strong. putin sees, and russian commentators have been saying this this week, that trump is unable to defend his own policy. so if he wants to really improve russian/american else arelation got to do something for trump. if he comes to washington in the fall, nothing will so vindicate
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the hapless, crazy, brainless trump policy like actually delivering something. putin has to show that trump is not just, as you said in the previous segment, beholden to him but that he can actually get something out of him. that's what we don't see any sign of yet. >> andre, i'm sorry to do this to you but this is television. do you think that putin wants a genuinely cooperative relationship with the united states or does he want to be the spoiler? the principal opponent of an american led world order, and we have to do this in 45 seconds, i'm sorry to tell you? >> in my youth, moscow was propagating world countries unite. today what i hear from moscow is authoritarians world countries
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unite. and that's where there is room. just look at syria, the dictator there, russia fights for him. but otherwise, the authoritarians are to unite against american values or democratic values, for that matter. and that creates a considerable constraint to any kind of cooperation, be it in syria because they want to re-establish or establish, whatever, keep the dictator, and in many other spots. so that's important to understand that it's not american foolishness. >> i have to stop you now -- >> but russian policy. >> i've got to stop you now. we will have you all back. thank you so much. up next, election hacking by
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well, esurance makes finding the right coverage easy. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of $412. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. now that the entire u.s. government, including the president, i think, has acknowledged that russia did try to meddle in the 2016 elections and given that the 2018 elections are just over 100 days away, i wanted to understand how russia could meddle in that vote just what is that nation's cyber
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capacity, and just how does it cary out its aggressive acts. i called in the expert to help us understand this, david sanger, a cnn contributor, correspondent for the "new york times" and author of "the perfect weapon" david, welcome. >> great to be with you again, fareed. >> when you look at what they did in the united states, what do you think? you've talked to so many experts, seen some of the raw intelligence, what can we say with confidence that the russians did? >> you've seen the facebook ads. >> right. >> so we know that they went through the internet research agency and now thanks to an indictment that came out a little over a week ago, we know that the gru, the russian military intelligence, worked hard to try to influence individual americans by pretending to be their neighbors instead of being a group of russians. we also know that they went into
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the voter registration systems of a number of different states, arizona, illinois, but many others, in an effort to see whether or not they could actually fiddle with the registration. remember, voting machines are offline by and large and hard to mess around with, but the voting registration systems are a different thing. they are online. so, of course, if you can go in and say fareed moved from new york to chicago, when you show up at the poll booth they might say you're not registered here anymore. that didn't happen but it turned out the system was so vulnerable it could. something to think about for future elections. >> and there was the hacking of the dnc servers, of course. >> yes. >> how confident are we that was the russian intelligence officers. >> we have traffic we've seen in the indictment, e-mails, text
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messages, in which the russian officers talk about pretending to be this group called guccifer or individual guccifer 2.0, turns out it's a committee of russian intelligence releasing the e-mails. but the equivalent of the british national security agency for us, actually saw dnc documents running through the lines they were tapped into for the russian military intelligence. >> so british intelligence is looking at russian intelligence's digital activity and they see the democratic national committee's document going through that. >> that's correct. they see the headings of an e-mail. the head of gchu, and i quote him by name in the book, tells me in interviews, they immediately sent a note to the national security agency saying you have a problem here, you
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have dnc documents we're seeing in the russian network. so when the president comes out and says i think it was the russians, yeah, but it could have been someone else, it wasn't someone else. they saw this inside the russian military intelligence network. they weren't the only ones. the dutch had gotten inside the headquarters of the gru, the russian military intelligence hackers, and they had both video and some computer traffic from them. so we've got three separate intelligence sources. on top of that, the cia had some unique human intelligence, which was very closely kept. john brennan would give it directly to president obama, that attributed this to president putin. >> so what do you think the russians could do in the 2018 election? what are their capacities? this. >> they could do a lot of things, but my biggest fear about the 2018 election is not just the russians. it's the people who have learned
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from the russians. the main thing you learn from cyber attacks is that other countries are watching what everybody else is doing. they're aware that you and i are caught as the collateral damage in this war going on at 30,000 feet above us. and it's very easy for other actors to mimic somebody else. so in the 2018 elections, it might be the russians who come back but the heat is on them. the chinese have an awful lot at stake in this election because of the tariffs, our other concerns, other actors do as well. they're all studying what the russians did in 2016, and saying how can we improve upon that? >> would it be fair to say that because the president has been defensive and in denial, probably the u.s. government is not ramped up at full speed to deter something like this? >> that's a great understatement.
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we lost a huge opportunity, several of them. first, after the presidential election was over, the president, having received his briefings about the russians could have said i was legitimately elected but we have a big problem here. we can't have foreign countries interfering in our elections, so i'm starting up a 9/11 kind of commission, going to report out lessons learned and we're going to get started. he didn't do that. second, the white house used to have under president obama and a bit under president bush as well, a white house cyber coordinator, who would try to pull together the various parts of the u.s. government that have interests in this. the cyber couordinator's job wa eliminated by john bolton in the first week or two he was in office. they've never given a reason why. that office is gone. at the very moment that
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intelligence agencies are telling them that cyber is our number one vulnerability, ahead of terrorism, nuclear proliferation, ahead of everything else. >> david sanger, thank you. >> great to be with you, fareed. whoooo. you rely on tripadvisor so you don't miss out on the perfect hotel... but did you know you can also use tripadvisor so you don't miss out on the best price? tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites to find the hotel you want for the lowest price. saving you up to 30%! so you can spend less time missing out...
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france's new hero, the 19-year-old soccer star won over
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the hearts of his fellow frenchmen and women. his parents were born abroad in afri africa. his foreign heritage just makes him part of the club. according to my next guest, 22 of the players have been not born in france. the question that tony raises in a terrific "new york times" piece is whether france can do for their neighborhoods what this melting pot team has done for france. he's a former deputy secretary of state, he is now a cnn global affairs analyst. tony let's begin by explaining to everybody why you know this much about soccer and france and why you don't really have your national security hat on here,
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but your documentary film maker hat in a sense. >> you know, fareed, i got to spend a lot of time in france, i lived there from nine to 18. i went to high school there. so i in effect grew up in a country where soccer players were idolized and i watched the evolution of french soccer over four, almost five decades now. and i've seen the emergence of france becoming a world power house in soccer. it had been, it lost it, and now it's back. >> describe the extent of france's current domination of soccer. >> it's pretty remarkable, the last five world cups, they take place every four years, france won two of them, finished second and third. these are all patriotic french people, the right wing in france tries to denigrate them, these are french citizens and very loyal and patriotic french
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citizens. >> absolutely. more than half the team is born of families that relatively recently immigrated to france but they themselves, many of them on the french national team, in the working classes of paris, but that's what made this moment so special. it's brought the country together at a time when it is divided like many countries over immigration. >> so what do you think macron can do here? you have kind of an idea that this -- take the success and build on it. >> yeah, i mean what vox points out so powerful in its video, which you can find on you tube, two things contributed to the success of soccer. first you had this -- actually a succession of immigrant waves
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after world war ii, sought out to meet a labor shortage but second, at the same time this was happening, french soccer was in decline. and starting in the 1970s, france made a concerted national effort to find, recruit, train soccer talent. they concentrated their national training academy in these suburbs with newly arrived immigrants and soccer talent. so having integrated immigrants into soccer is can macron do it at large for the immigration problems they're having in french society. and i think there should be a focussed effort along the lines to finding new talent in the communities not just soccer players, engineers, mathematicians, teachers, doctors, you name it. that's the national effort that could be made.
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and if macron seizes the moment, should be made. >> what i was struck by in the vox piece and yours that you recognize there is an effort, there are forces in europe that are integrating immigrants into the society. we tend to look at europe and its immigrant problems as a dark prison m, maybe because in america we do it better but trump who is constantly denigrating europe for immigration and talking about the dangers what might be more positive is pointing out the successes because those successes are real as soccer shows. >> in our own society in the united states, immigrant success stories run the gamut of the economy, and it's the same in europe. these countries do have real significant problems just as the sub burrs are producing soccer
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players, there's also violence, crime, drugs, and that needs tackled. i think what macron is starting to do makes sense, internships for 30,000 kids, making sure french companies are not discriminating and most important of all, starting to cut the class sizes. they found their classroom size had been cut in half last fall. that over time is going to make a difference. >> so great lessons we can learn from sports and, of course, i should point out that tony blinken would probably call this football, not soccer. thank you, tony. >> thanks, fareed. >> we will be right back. ♪
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thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week and i will see you next week. shock and awe trump style. this is ""reliable sources" our look at the story behind the story of how the media really works and how the news gets made. ahead this hour, chris ruddy is here to share what he's been talking about with the president. plus maggie haberman is here on why this was a new low. the worst week of trump's presidency. one summit but two very different narratives. we're here with reactions to the news coverage. first this prediction. when historians look back on the trump presidency they'll say this was