tv New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman CNN July 27, 2018 4:00am-5:00am PDT
time. i'm sure you can imagine what that must do to a mother who is separated for a month or two months. >> but gang violence is a form of persecution, why would they deny that? >> they're not giving any reasons for deny, they're just checking off boxes, and there is no reason for the denial. when we went to the court proceeding, he failed to give a reason, he just said i'm denying your case. >> we really appreciate you giving us a reality check of what is happening with these kids, their parents, and how the trump administration has not not lived up to the court ordered mandate. please keep us updated on that situation and the others that are yet to be reunited. for u.s. viewers "new day"
continues now. welcome to your new day. we begin with a major development that could, i repeat, could, change the course of the russia investigation. sources tell cnn that michael cohen is ready to tell special council robert mueller that then candidate donald trump was aware and approved of the trump tower meeting in june 2016 where they promised the campaign dirt on hillary clinton. the president, his team and family, repeatedly deny that he knew anything about that meeting. >> now p president's current lawyer, rudy juligiuliani was v quick to attack michael cohen. saying he has been a liar for years, but remember he has been
donald trump's fixer and attorney for many years. give us all of the nice, jim. >> thank you, alisyn, a lot of headlines in this story. one, cohen is saying the president, then candidate trump, knew in advance of this meeting about dirt for hillary clinton, and cohen says he was present for a meeting in person when candidate trump was informed about the meeting by trump junior, and said let's go forward. cohen says he is willing to tell this store are to robert mueller. >> sources tell myself and carl burnstein that long time lawyer
michael cohen is willing to tell robert mueller that donald trump knew in advance about the meeting with russians for dirt on hillary clinton. >> did you know about the meeting. >> he was not aware of the meeting and was only informed of the e-mails recently about. >> sources say cohen was there when donald trump junior told his father about the meeting but business not have evidence to corroborate the claim. rudy giuliani denied cohen's
accounta account. >> >> he did not know about it. i know in detail, i spoke to the witnesses, there is no way you're going to bring down the president of the kwm of an uncrop rated liar. >> he says donald trump did not have advanced knowledge of the meeting and donald trump junior said he would not have wasted his father's time with it. they're saying they're confident in the accuracy and reliability of the nafinformation that provided. the trump tower meeting has been at the center of claims of collusion. trump junior released e-mails saying it was to provide the
trump campaign with official documents and information that would incriminate hillary. trump junior replied to the e-mail witness minutes saying "if it's what you say, i love it." a few days before the trump tower meeting, trump said he would be revealing information about clinton. >> i'm going to give a major speech on probably monday of next week, and we're going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the clintons. i think you're going to find it very informative and very, very interesting. >> that speech never happened. >> the other important detail in our reporting is that michael cohen is prepared to say there was others present in that meeting when he said he was there and trump senior was told by trump junior about that meeting with the russians. we know the trump tower meeting has been of special interest in
two lines of inquiry. number one if there was cooperation or collusion, and two obstruction of justice. the misleading statements. claiming that it was initially about adoptions when we know what russians were really offering when they came in the room. >> stay with us, jim. we have chief legal analyst jeffrey tubin ready to go, and special agent josh campbell. this is your first appearance since hearing the news. for people that think this has been drip drip drip, this is a good time to tune in. >> this is gush. >> let's pause it that his credibility is in question. but if cohen is telling the truth about this, it completely changes our understanding of
what donald trump's role was. donald trump senior, president of the united states, in the relationship between his campaign and russia. this meeting in trump tower is the clearest example we have so far of a direct connection between the russian government and the trump campaign. the party line has been, as jim's report said, that donald trump did not know about the e-mail. that has always been suspect. donald trump junior saying, if it's true, that is an offer of help from the russian government, i love it. would he really not have told hil his father about that? would he have announced a major speech about hillary clinton if he had not known this information was coming. would he have canceled the speech if the meeting had not
turned out to be a bust? cohen squares that saying of course donald trump knew. is michael cohen lying? this raises a lot of questions. is there any corroboration? >> on another larger issue, michael cohen knows everything. he is the long time fixer. he has been at the president's side. so the idea that he is ready, he says, through sources to cooperate with robert mueller, is it a game changer? >> it could be, it depends on in michael cohen is telling the truth, and whether or not he has any corroboration, any other witnesses, any tape recordings, any e-mails or texts that corroborate what he is saying. >> all right special agent, someone that has investigated matters before, this information comes out overnight, michael cohen making this public
revelation, cnn reporting michael cohen's mind-set on this. what happens now. if you're robert mueller, what do you do? >> i think at the outset, what this tells us is that for a group that is so tight knit, they're terrible at colluding if there was collusion. if you think about it, it doesn't look like they got information from the russians, they have not been able to keep hush panlts quite, or ko men quiet. i think now that he is out there singing like a canary, the fact that cohen mentioned in our reported that there was othered in the room is a key fact that stood out to me in this report. first, as jeffrey mentioned, his credibility is not golden, right? it is in question right now. the fact to me as an investigator he came out and said i met one on one with the president and we discussed this russian meeting, the fact that he opened this now to other
people to say there was other witnesses, why would he do that if it was not the truth. next issue here, what does mueller do with this? what does the southern district do with this? they're going to start figuring out who these witnesses are. if they have already been interviewed, if they locked in their testimony and said the president didn't know and cohen or someone else can come up with one shred of corroborating evidence -- >> do you have any more reporting on who else may have been in the room? >> we don't know yet. that's a key question. it would provide an opportunity if the special council is interested to find someone willing to corroborate what is michael cohen's version of ltt story h the story here. it has been two years now and very early on a source said to me that a lot of the evidence is
hiding in plain sight. a lot of the evidence is in public, or the clues are in public. when you think of president trump's officer of that speesh, then canceled, you think of the reporting yield from, i don't know if was the new york times or the wall street journal. you have to wed what has been said in public, the timing of what was said in public in and around this trump tower meeting, tweets, et cetera. it is what folks call open source information, that stuff is out there. we know that investigators as they look into this they try to connect the dots here.
u a. we heard already from rudy giuliani that cohen is a liar. >> and we're talking about credibility about this meeting. surrounding the president, they have spread lies about it purely and simply they spread lies. we know that he dictated a response to "new york times," we now know that was not true. so their credibility on this is also very much in question. >> and john, on that point, i said this an essential part of the defense of the trump tower meeting. you listen to donald trump
junior's response, it's not that taking the meeting was wrong, but that the russians didn't deliver that investigation. he says it was a big nothing and therefore it was a waste of time. not that listen, we would never consider sitting down with foreign nationals offering our campaign help, just that they didn't bring to the table what they said they would bring to the table. that has always struck me, not that they should not have taken the meeting, but that they didn't bring what they thought. >> michael cohen has felt hung out to dry, he sent out flares for help, and they were met with silence or a diminishment of his
role publicly. but what really could trump, who is a subject of the mueller investigation, what lifeline could he have thrown to michael cohen. >> before anything, he could have pardoned him. >> absolutely. gerald ford mar don-- pardoned nixon. cohen is operating at several levels here. he is afraid of being charged himself. he has davis, the famously outspoken clinton defender doing the public game, and davis is
talking about cohen's reputation, trying to show his independence. it is certainly the case that prosecutors and fbi agents prefer that the people involved in their investigations don't say anything to the press. that is not what michael cohen is doing, but she is also protecting his reputation. >> i have so many more questions. >> luckily we have two more hours here. what is michael cohen claiming, what does all of this mean to sdpl capitol hill, we're going to speak to a republican congressman, next.
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on the flip side, this is the kind of information that is consistent with those who have been critical of the president and who have raised concerns about the mueller investigation and russian interfer u e. >> since we know that the trump campaign was open for business for dirt on hillary clinton, if donald trump knew that as michael cohen is alleging, did
that change republicans on chill and how they look at this and what action they were taking? >> look, i'm not running for reelection. most of my colleagues are, they're going to focus on the fact that we have historically low unemployment, slow economic growth, tough foreign policy, there are a lot of good things happening in this country, but if we talk about trade there are serious concerns about what is going on in trade and tariff aspects. by and large, this is an independent investigation and franly, republicans and democrats really should step back and just -- it is tough to do, but let the investigation take it's course. that is why many supported a special council. those on capitol hill cannot be viewed and will not be viewed as objective as it relates to any
investigation. >> yes, i think we have seen with the house intel committee that objectivity, the tariffs, the byproduct, and the ramifications are being felt by some voters. you're not a fan, here is what the president says to you and anyone not a fan of his tariff plan. every time i see a weak politician asking to stop trade talks or the use of tariffs, i wonder what can they be thinking? are we just going to continue to let our farmers and country be ripped off? lost $817 billion on trade last year. no weakness. are you weak on trade? >> no. many of us have consistently said tariffs amount to a tax on the american consumer. and when we export more, and the
president categorizes that as a trade deficit, we're getting more of our product into marketplaces around the globe. let me also say this in the president's defense. i want to strike fairly here. if the president is trying to renegotiate trade deals to lower barriers, that's a good thing. understandably there will be short-term pain, but it is for us as members of congress to point out what that short-term pain is. listen to our constituents, and say there is oo better way of going about trying to lower trade barriers. if you look at the statement by -- coming out of the eu, they promise they will now try to buy more soy beans. so while they're going to now continue to negotiate, nothing has changed. and that is a deep concern, because if you look across the
midwest, particularly, it will be felt in pennsylvania as well. our sector is not in in a good position right now. >> what are you going to do next? >> i'm going to continue to try to make my voice heard, but i don't know yet. i don't know what my future plans will be yet at this point. >> thank you, we appreciate you being on new day. >> what do you think the legal fallout will be of michael cohen's claim that president trump knew and approved of the trump tower meeting. we'll debate. two will answer, one will leave. - why are drivers 50 and over switching to
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create legal trump for donald trump? here to discuss it with me? jeffrey toou bin. the case against impeaching trump, gentleman, between us we have two law degrees. professor, let me start with you. i want to pause for a second on michael cohen's creditability. >> i take this issue on has a hypothetical in my book, even if the president sought different that was obtain illegally, and used it in his campaign that
would be no different. the first amendment protects the use of information legally on taned as long as you don't tell the source go get more. if someone hands you an envelope, dirt that was obtained illegally. there is a statute that prohibits obtaining things of value from a foreign government during a campaign, but that has to be construed to be constitutional. it deals primarily with money and other material facts. if it were to be construed to cover information, it would run afoul of the first amendment. i think this is a political stint, but not a federal crime.
the question here is what was the relationship? if he did just reconceive an envelope, i agree that is not a crime. if there was dealings, negotiations, if there was collusion then i think that could be construed as a crime, a conspiracy to defraud the united states. all of that would come into play as usual, the facts matter more than the law. what actually happened is what we all want to know and then question figure out what legal implications are. >> but the law matters too and it is not against the law to collude. donald trump calls vladimir putin and he says hey, do i have
a deal for you. i want to be president, i know you want to get rid of the sanctions, you know i don't like those sanctions, and if we work together, and you help me become president, how is that different from atalking with expanded portion rights. if i help you get elected to congress. if it is done without exchange of money and without expolice sis proemss is not a federal government. you can't just target people, and that is what he is trying to do, he is trying to find a
crime. i think allen it s wrong about that. if that hypothetical is true, it is very similar to the kacase tt mueller already charges with the social media, the violation that says foreign governments cannot be involvemented, foreign enemies cannot be involved. i think that is a crime and that would be a crime if the trump campaign was -- >> let me jump in here. >> it doesn't say involved. it doesn't say involved. that would be unconstitutional. it is much more specific. >> professor, let me jump in here and talk about another aspect of this. if what michael cohen says is true, than the president's team
lied publicly, and i'm talking about the president itself, i'm talking about anyone that knows what this meeting was or was not about, they lied publicly. it would be a problem. >> first of all, we don't know that they knew anything. jay is a very decent and ethical lawyer. i can't imagine he would knowingly lie. lawyers only know what they were told by their clients. it is always possible he was told something not true and he just repeated it. remember this was apparently a vague meeting, nobody knew for sure what was subject was going to be, it could be date of birth on likt, but did he make a tape
recording of what he saw. so there will be credibility issues, specific fact issues, let's not rush to judgment. you asked if it is evidence, it might be but it is not, initself, critical behavior. >> but to respond to your question, if michael cohen is telling the truth about trump senior's knowledge of this meeting, that does call into question the denial by donald trump junior under oath that that took place, and anyone else that was interviewed under oath or informally by the fbi. this is why the fbi and u.s. attorneys often charge false statements rather than the un r underlying crime. allen doesn't like that, but that is how the fbi operating
frequently. >> and that is why the president is unlikely to sit down and have a meeting. when you have a meeting with prosecutors, bad things happen. they're not meeting with you because they want to help you. they're meeting with you because they want to give you an opportunity to commit perjury. it is rare, i have not in 53 years advised a client to go to a prosecutor. you only do that when you have no option. they will have you hard questions in a darkroom. >> so 15 seconds each on the issue of michael cohen's credibility, professor, you first, then jeffrey. >> i have no idea. michael cohen was trusted by president trump for a long period of time. i'm sure he often tells the truth. he kept recordings of a lot of conversations and corroborations, but when you're squeezing someone sometimes you not only make them sing, but you
make them exaggerate the story. that's the risk involved here. >> to me the big issue is corroboration. are there e-mails? texts? recordings that corroborate what he says. are there other people rent at these meetings where donald trump senior knew about the purpose of this meeting. what do they say? gentleman, thank you very much for being with us and it it was an illuminating discussion. >> we have a update on the massive wild fire. it has turned deadly. it is live where neighborhoods are being evacuated. -meg! there you are. did you take a picture of the cake
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have bsh r been destroyed. it is going to go up significantly once they have a chance to assess the area. it advanced to quickly that residents had no warning, just a few minutes to get out. we know one person died as a result of this fire. he was a private bulldozer operator who was trying to combat the fire. we know some babies that were at the near by hospital, they were evacuated as a verz of precaution. in terms of getting it under control, it will be hot and windy today. we know that it stayed in the
o outskirts of town. so a really difficult situation and hopefully firefighters can make some progress but the weather is not looking good. >> thank you, i know you will be careful with that fire burning. roseanne barr making a statement in an interview with sean hannity last night. >> i was so sad that people thought it was racist. and then i went into the whole thing about the whole discussion of racism and that blew my mind because it's like what my show was about, and then i got messed up thinking that it seems like
words matter more than actions, but what broke my heart the most is i have african-american children in my family, and in my immediate family, but i felt so bad for those kids, because i love them, and i didn't want them to think of me like that, you know? >> it didn't really seem like barr gave a full apology in that interview, she called it an misinteremi misunderstanding, she says the tweet was political and not racial in any way. >> that is fascinating, and in your personal life you love your neighbors and your colleagues and your family members, but in your language and in your bigger life, you still feel that people are others and you could still
have hateful rhetoric toward others, that is what she is saying. her personal life she is one person, and on twitter and on you tube, she a different horrible rants and raving person, and why they're not disparity, i don't know? >> and it is hard to imagine someone as intelligent as she is, did not know that what she was saying was racist, hard to believe that if you read the words. >> we'll have much more ahead on what president trump knew about the infamous trump tower meeting and what michael cohen, someone that knows him extremely well says donald trump knew, and we have van jones to discuss that as well. as well as what are the democrats doing? that is next. - i've had the opportunity to speak with dozens
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president's long time fixer michael cohen is ready to talk about many things but primarily donald trump did know about the trump tower meeting in 2016 where they promised dirt on hillary clinton. van jones is here to talk about it. great to have you as always. >> good to be here. >> michael cohen, the president's most loyal servant who would take a bullet for trump is now spilling the beans. >> spilling the beans, the cheese, the macaroni and cheese and anything else he could find in the kitchen. >> how big a deal? >> i think it's a big deal. part of it, though, is democrats have to not be distracted by this. we spend so much time talking about bob mueller, and bob mueller is not harry potter. he's not the guy who's going to make it all better tomorrow and give us the country we want.
we have to stay focused on the mid-term election. when i'm out there in red states and red districts they're not talking about this stuff. they're talking about jobs and price of gas. sometimes i think democrats get so gleefullyrump is disqualifying himself, but we're not qualifying ourselves. >> you don't want democrats to make russia the central theme of investigation, but i talked to some who say we should make trump the central theme of this campaign. >> listen, if you haven't figured out by now you like trump a lot or udon't like trump a lot, the people voting in the mid-term election who matter, that's really where the action plays out. they are still trying to figure
out who is going to help me with the health care bills, the education bills. we got more jobs, i got two or three of them and i still can't get the health care. that's the situation i want the democrats to stay on top of. you've also got to let people know he's bad for you, but here's why i'm good for you. i'm not hearing that from democrats. >> there's some interesting polls that have come out that basically showing the blue wall that trump managed to hurdle over, interesting things are happening. in michigan, minnesota, and wisconsin basically his job approval numbers are under water. 36% approve of the job president trump is doing in michigan and wisconsin, 38% in minnesota, 54 percent disapprove. but, van, to your point, isn't all you need to know the quote,
is the economy stupid. >> i think a lot of times democrats forget, listen, if president obama had come out and said i've got 3% unemployment, the stock market is up, everyone's got a tax cut, democrats would have had a parade on those numbers. and so the economy is coming up. the problem is society is coming apart at the same time based on the leadership. so how you square that, you've got to acknowledge some of the stuff is positive, a lot of continuation of obama, but your life may not be getting better and your community may be coming apart. if you think just saying trm is bad, trump is bad is going to win in these swing districts you're not paying attention. >> so-called democratic socials are a big part of that
discussion. the discussion basically is are they pushing the party too far to the left? is that what you're seeing in some areas? >> listen, on the van jones show this weekend, tomorrow 7:00 p.m. eastern, we're going to have three democratic socialist women, young women who are running for congress in pennsylvania. and we're going to have the conversation. we're also going to have someone who's running in west virginia on a much more moderate ticket, actually a democratic who voted for trump running. listen, you should run as a democratic socialist if that's what people in your district want. but you should run as a blue and anything else if that's what your people want. we're generalizing concerns we moe might have in indiana or ohio, and saying listen no one should run the way they're running in brooklyn or the bronx. they deserve a voice in congress. but if you're a democrats and
your base you're running for doesn't like that stuff and they want something more moderate, they should have a voice in that. not to the right, not to the left but towards the people. >> that's interesting. so you're saying the party is big enough for all these different permutations. >> look at the republican party. the republican party has people in there like lindsey graham, and we have some those hard core right wing libertarian and others and they somehow make it work. i think in the mid-term elections let's figure out who can win and what arguments work and what don't and then you can figure who can win on a national basis. >> but what you see are democrats who come out and try to use it, and then you have the republican party saying, look whereby if you let the democrats get the power this is what will happen. >> both parties have the tendency to say, listen, i'm going to run against nancy
pelosi and socialism, but in that district, the grocery store, in that laundromat, in that same grocery store people may not care about that as much. i just think in a mid-term election you better be talking to people at the bus stop and in those community centers. and if they care about democratic socialism, great. and if they don't, don't worry about it. make sure you're representing your district. >> talk to us about your show. >> oh, my show is going to be amazing. we're also going to have carmelo anthony, the legendry basketball player. he's not just a hero on the court. he's got gold medals from the olympics. he's not just a hero on the court. he's a hero off the court. he's actually doing stuff in south africa, puerto rico,
baltimore, helping people. nobody cares when these guys are doing good. it's going to be great. >> all right, since you made him sound so heroic for those things i won't bring up the stuff. >> about the real house wive snz. >> defensive passing. van, the show sounds fantasticmism. >> be sure to tune into the van jones show at 7:00 eastern right here on cnn. there is some breaking news, the president just responded to the news michael cohen might want to tell the special counsel. a lot of news, so let's get to it. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. all right, good morning, everyone. welcome to your new day. it is friday, july 27, 8:00 in the east. there is new breaking news because sources tell cnn the president's long time former personal fixer, michael cohen has begun spilling the beans.
cohen claims that then candidate donald trump knew in advance and approved of that june 2016 trump tower meeting in which russians promised dirt on hillary clinton. and sources say that cohen is prepared to tell this to special counsel robert mueller. >> all right, let me tell you what the president just wrote about this. again, this is breaking news. it just crossed, a statement from the president of the united states. i did not know of the meeting with my son don junior. sounds to me someone is trying to make up stories in order to get himself out of an unrelated jam, taxicabs, maybe, question mark. he even retained bill and cracked hillary's lawyer. gee, i wonder if they helped him make the choice. how did we get to that point? jim sciutto, jeffrey toobin, and cnn law enforcement analyst josh
campbell. jim, let me start with you. we have the statement from the president. remind us what cohen now is willing to say? >> so in effect it's the president's word against his former long time personal attorney's word. to summarize what michael cohen says he's prepared to tell the special counsel robert mueller is a number of things. one, that the president did know in advance of that 2016 trump tower meeting of russians offering dirt on hillary clinton. michael cohen says he knows this because he was present montana room when don junior, the president's son, let the president know or then candidate trump know about this meeting. we're told michael cohen is also prepared to testify the that the president when told of this upcoming meeting approved of the meeting coming forward. the final detail, and this is an important one, is that we're told michael cohen says there were other people in the room besides then candida