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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  August 3, 2018 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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crews have bulldozed three separate fire lines and the wind is blowing away from town but things can change in a hurry, wolf. >> scott mclean on the screen. i'm woman blitzer in the situation room." erin burnett out front" starts right now. out front next, closing in two top trump associates under pressure. prosecutors making their case against paul manafort and a big development on roger stone. president suddenly silent. plus president trump doubling down on his claim that russian election meddling is a hoax after his intel chiefs say it's real and continuing and a group of wealthy saudis spent five days at a trump hotel in new york spending so much money that revenues went up at the hoe fell for the first time in two years. are you kidding me? let's go out front.
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we're learning special counsel bob mueller interviewed one who could hold the keys to trump's inner circle, someone who has been close to trump's long time friend and campaign adviser roger stone for decades, she's known as the manhattan madam and tonight four sources tell cnn that kristin davis sat for a voluntary interview with bob mueller's team this week. davis could be crucial, she is a personal and professional relationship with stone, she knows a lot and when it comes to trump, roger stone is tight. >> we talk politics but i won't characterize it because if i do then that indiscretion would mean those conversations would end. the president has to have confidence that he can talk politics or policy with a friend of 40 years without it appearing on the front page of the newspaper. >> a friend of 40 years bragging
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about keeping president trump's secrets but will he keep them if mueller closes a trap on stone. we're learning of another big blow to stone, a judge ordering another person close to stone to appear before the mueller grand jury, that's former stone associate andrew miller. he fought a subpoena from mueller, the judge, though, said no. so andrew miller will appear. and today trump's former campaign chairman faced another day in court. prosecutors slamming paul manafort for a fourth day showing he lied on his taxes, lies, lies, and more lies is the story from prosecutors and let's be clear, roger stone and paul manafort were not coffee boys like team trump has tried to dismiss another trump aide who pleaded guilty in the russia informati
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information. >> mr. manafort who is a respected man. >> will stone or manafort flip on trump. >> we heard some of the most damaging testimony from paul manafort's accounts and one in particular. she is cindy laporta, she got an immunity deal from the special counsel in order to testify and what she represents is an insider, someone who according to prosecutors and her own testimony she was involved in the conspiracy to help paul manafort move some of this money from these offshore accounts and in cyprus that he did not dedlid declare to the irs and then he fudge it had numbers so he could lie on his income taxes. there was one part of the
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testimony in which she described a loan for $900,000. i think we have the exhibits the government showed in court for a $900,000 loan in 2014 and according to her own testimony, this money was supposed to be classified as income but by classifying it as a loan, it allowed paul manafort to reduce his taxes by as much as a half million dollars for that year. so here we have for the first time someone who is an insider explaining how this conspiracy works. the government has charged him with bank fraud and tax fraud. and what this is building to is they are going move on to other charges. rick gates, his testimony will be a very fiery thing baht r because we expect paul manafort's lawyers will attack him as someone who lied to the fbi. he's pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi so expect some of that
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to happen next week. >> thank you evan. there's that personal and emotional and you're talking about gates and manafort, friends, mentor/mentee relationship. so that will be fireworks. alex marquardt, kristin davis has been brought in, she sat down to talk to bob mueller and the big question is what she might know about stone and deals with russia. whether it be wikileaks or guccifer 2.0. >> the big question is how she's connected to the russia probe. what we know is this interview took place on wednesday and it was voluntary. what's less clear is exactly what the special counsel's
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office is looking for. sources have told cnn that they do want kristin davis to testify before a grand jury. and that's an indication they may be zeroing in on davis' close friend roger stone who advised donald trump for decades. davis is known as the manhattan madam and roger stone may have also been close for years. she ran a high end prostitution ring here in new york and schenn we went to jail as part of the scandal that took down eliot spitzer. it was after that stint she paired up with stone who advidea surprised her campaign for new york governor in 2010 when she ran on a platform of legalizing marijuana and prostitution. stone put davis on his own payroll. she helped him with clerical work, setting up media interviews and there's another twist. stone is the godfather of davis's son but two witnesses have been asked whether he's actually the father which appears to have annoyed stone. in a new statement, stone said kristin davis is a long time
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friend and associate of mine, i am the godfather two her two-year-old son, she knows nothing about russian collusion, wikileaks collaboration or any other impropriety related to the 2016 election which i thought was the subject of this probe. i understand she appeared voluntarily. i am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. we reached out to david's lawyer and the special counsel's office. they have not responded. >> thank you very much, alex. so frank and laura, let me start with you both. the walls closing in on some very close people to the president. grim news for manafort. the most damming day of testimony so far for him.
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roger stone, you have this woman testifying and another associate now losing his fight, he's going to have to testify as well yet trump was silent. >> maybe because of that ch. but frump silent one day means noisy the next. it's interesting to wonder about what's going through his head. there's no way the president isn't noticing this he may believe they have nothing say about him but either way it becomes clear to him and this is a day that reminds him of that how wide ranging the mueller investigation is. >> so here's the thing. i remember several months ago having lunch with michael cohen and he said to me well they've never called me, they've never talked to me and i remember almost kind of jokingly saying well, that means you're toast. but that was what the case was. in terms of they're going to be looking into him.
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stone is the same way. not talking to stone but we have kristin davis, other people close to him, sam nunberg, michael caputo. what does this mean for stone? >> it means that mueller's probe is thriving on the anxiety and uncertainty of all these things. remember, his directive is not simply to look at the campaign-related collusion. rosenstein said if he comes across any other criminal activity in the course of that investigation he need not ignore it as a pile of cocaine as he searches for homicide in the house. he can look at the coffee table as swollen to just as the situation with michael cohen, it may now be that perhaps donald trump is silent because a target is not him in that capacity and everyone is closer and closer to roger stone with the wikileaks, with the sam nunberg interview talking about the zoning in on him and he has reason and cause to be nervous. >> i mean, when you add it up, does stone get indicted here? is that what this is building words? >> it certainly is building in
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that direction and for someone like stone, not being spoken to is definitely a bad sign as you point out about cohen. it's like musical chairs, you don't want to be the last person out there and they've spoken to everybody else, you'll have nothing to offer them and they'll have all the information they need on you already. >> then from's paul manafort, his own accountants given immunity. they say they knew his client lied on his taxes, one saying her firm helped do it to falsify these documents about the loan that could have cut his taxes by half a million dollars as evan was reporting. >> we are going to see manafort's tax returns. >> unlike someone else. >> that may remind many americans we have not seen donald trump's. >> it's impossible not to wonder if americans who are tune into this trial, and probably fewer than we think, won't be struck by that same irony. it east interesting the accountant admitted she
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falsified things. some else interesting is going on which is all of these people who worked on manafort's taxes asking who is in charge. all are saying manafort is the man in charge and that's a specific deliberate question. >> they've been putting it to everybody. >> and the "washington post" saying the lead attorney for manafort was talking to people during a break and his defense was nobody intending to violate the law would lead the evidence around for his accountant to find. >> it that sounds like rudy giuliani making a comment that know one commits a crime in broad daylight or the open. sounds ironic. that's what happened here according to the prosecution's case. if you know you're going to have a complicit accountant to falsify the documents, certainly you would lead the evidence and bred crumbs for that person to
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find it's ridiculous for a jury to be expected -- that's not sequestered, that may not buy this scapegoating tactic -- that everyone is against you and you have no knowledge this is going on. everyone out of the goodness of their heart and against their licenses decided i'll help you commit a crime because i don't want you not have that jacket. >> he said i didn't know i was doing it. the accountant is admitting they did it on his behalf. you're supposed to believe the accountant didn't come back and say just checking this doesn't add up. that the account would take that on themselves. >> so what you saw the first day of the trial they were trying to say listen, all this is crazy, this lavish spending. now we're getting to the meat of the bone that says why did he need these loan documents? who was helping him? did you commit fraud? it's a document-heavy case, not one about he said versus she said. it's either the documents speaks the truth or don't. either you were $3 millions up or one million in the hole.
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>> rick gates is -- prosecutors have cedric gates wasn't directing it, paul manafort said i want the m cut in my flowers and here's my landscaping bill, et cetera, et cetera. so he stood for paul manafort, now he turned on the guy who was his mentor and boss. this will be an incredible moment for him. what do you think he'll say? >> i think it will be a difficult moment and probably we'll expect drama in the courtroom. what we're seeing with the trend of the immunized witnesses gives us insight into what will happen with gates's testimony. the big question is are they going to step forward and admit to complete knowledge, deliberately engaging in fraud? they are doing that with that account and most likely that's what you'll see with gates.
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my prediction would be based on that trend he will come forward and say manafort knew about this, that they are working together on this and this is a tough flip for the defense. they need to confront that head on and try and turn that tide against him and that will be rough. >> two men prized and praised by the president. roger stone and paul manafort in the cross hairs of mueller, a crucial night for this president. thank you all three. next, another republican backed by trump scoring a big primary win. the president's batting average so far is through the roof. should democrats counting on this big wave be very afraid? plus, the secretary of state mike pompeo charges kim jong-un is failing on his promise to denuclearize. your move, president trump. and dr. sanjay gupta on a so-called date rape drug that is being used as a save shot for suicide. >> since you took ketamine, have you ever wanted to die from
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nation's national affairs correspondent and cnn political commentator along with steve cortez, member of the president's 2020 reelected a vi -- reelectcouncil. when you look at trump's candidate he is endorsed, congress or senate or governor, his wins, 19, his loss column, four. could he single-handedly deliver the house? >> absolutely not. his win record, erin, is only in republican primaries so far so when he's gone out and campaigned and rallied for rick saccone, connor lamb won that seat. doug jones won the seat in alabama. when he endorsed ed gillespie in virginia, ralph northam won that seat. so this is his party, he's won the republican part yy but he's
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hurting his candidates so far. >> i might surprise, joan. i agree i think this is the democrats' race to use. history argues on their side when you look historically. the first midterm is disastrous, it was for obama and clinton. it was for ronald reagan. current polling, real clear politics average shows 7% advantage for democrats. >> so you don't look at the primaries, steve, at the 19-4 win/loss record and feel calmed? >> well, i don't feel calmed. i'm worried. but here's how i get over the worry and how as republicans we score abupset is we need to rally as a party much more to donald trump. the reason those 230 districts are not solid, the reason those aren't solidly in the republican camp for this 2018 race is because too many squish establishment republicans in washington, d.c. on the hill
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have not embraced the trump agenda. if they do in the next couple months and if trump can put himself on the ballot and name a reelect and he's going to campaign as hard as he did in 2016 in the coming weeks and months, if he does that, we have a fighting chance but it's an uphit battle. >> joan, when trump goes on the campaign, he loves this. this is like oxygen. he had a campaign last night, people can talk about this in their sleep. but the key thing is what he said here. >> let's get back to boring subjects like bob casey. [ laughter ] so bob casey -- isn't that boring? i have to talk about bob casey?
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don't fall asleep as we talk about sleeping bob. [ laughter ] sleeping bob. that's it! sleeping bob. >> okay. >> that's funny. you know what? bob casey can sleep because he's 250b9 points ahead of lou barletta in his race. >> that doesn't worry you? that's the thing that trump does. he gives a nickname, makes people laugh, democrats didn't figure out what to do with it, republicans didn't figure out what to do with it and he crushed them all. >> he didn't crush hillary clinton, she won by three million votes, the popular vote. >> but we're an electoral college country. >> that's not what decides elections, joan, you know that very well. >> steve, stop yelling in my ear. >> i didn't yell but we have a constitution -- >> he won the electoral college, i agree. he did not crush hillary clinton. >> we have a constitution. >> he didn't crush anybody. >> he did electorally and that's all that matters. >> and lou barletta is not -- >> is anybody ready for this? this is the way trump beats
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people. he comes in and everybody laugh s. >> all of these vulnerable senators like bob casey, like sherrod brown, like tammy baldwin, like joe manchin, they're up in their races, erin. that was supposed to be a baghdad bath for democrats, especially the senate. real clear politics only has seven tossup seats and three are actually republican seats. democrats are defending their turf really well. so this won't go well for steve. we'll talk in november. >> the opposite is the case. the democrats are clearly favored here. history, polling. >> not in the senate. the democrats are defending like 23 senate seats. >> no credible person thinks the democrats can take -- no credible person thinks the democrats can take the senate. >> a couple analysts said it's a tossup. >> i think that's ludicrous but
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regardless. in the house they are clearly favored and how do we republicans score an upset win? trump has to make the case and people like me have to make the case that this is in effect his second election because if the democrats take the house they will impeach the president. and they're trying to be coy and talk around it and whisper around it. some people aren't like tom steyer. they're being honest but the reality is if they take the house they will impeach the president. and if we get that message out -- >> only if he deserves it. >> -- to the deplorables, to people like me -- >> glad you're calling yourself deplorable. i'm very proudly a deplorable. >> that's good. >> if we convince my fellow deplorables that this is a referendum on the trump presidency, that they are trying to nullify 2016 then we have a fighting chance but we're the underdogs. we have to be scrappy and fight.
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>> certainly that scenario you have to put out is that you won't get turnout if you say you're the underdog, i totally get it. but from your point of view, joan, you have to act like you don't have in the the bag. >> it's race by race and these are local races, especially these house races. they're local races so people have to focus on local issues. it can't be just counting on anger at trump. that fires up the base but doesn't get everybody out the door to vote so i don't take anything for granted but this minute things look good for democrats. >> the sleeping bob was funny and steve i'm sure you will give it to joan that joan's response, he can afford to sleep because he's 20u7 poiup 20 points. >> we'll talk about it in notch. trump and his national security team far from on the same page when it comes to russia. >> we acknowledge the threat. it's real. it's continuing. >> so why did the president hours later say it was a hoax?
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plus, trump's hotel in new york getting a huge boost in revenue thanks a group of saudi arabians. - thank you. now i'm at a time in my life where i want to do business with companies who do right by me. - [narrator] the hartford is the only auto insurance company voted one of the world's most ethical companies 10 times, and customers rate the hartford 4.8 out of five stars for their claims experience. join the millions of customers who trust the hartford. call to get a quote from the aarp auto insurance program from the hartford. to ghappy anniversary dinner, aarpdarlin'.surance program can this much love be cleaned by a little bit of dawn ultra? oh yeah one bottle has the grease cleaning power of three bottles of this other liquid. a drop of dawn and grease is gone.
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>> we continue to see a pervasive messaging campaign by russia to try to weaken and divide the united states. >> in helsinki i had a great meeting with putin. they wanted me to walk up and go like this. [ laughter ] >> jeff zeleny is with the president in new jersey. the president obviously just undercut his entire national security team after they took russia on from a group as a white house. why? >> that was the big question at that rally, was he going to talk about it? he said it was a hoax again. i'm told by talking to a variety of administration officials and people close to the president that he does not want to relent and talk about russian election interference with his base. he does not want to give that in that cupid of setting but he does realize that it is a problem and politically speaking
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a problem as well. his polls took a hit at a helsinki summit. there's no question voters want to see his voters take a you have to line on election interference. so he wants to show that his government is doing something. but he hasn't shown the inclination to talk about it. he is screaming it from the rafters, is anyone going to take it seriously? is vladimir putin going to take it seriously. so at the end of this week it was extraordinary to see all those national security officials making this case the president has jot joined them. erin? >> it was incredible. the government making the case with the president of the united states undercutting that same government on the same point. it's hard to fathom. out front now, the former director of national intelligence under president obama, general james clapper. great to have you with me again. the president, you heard it, he says the russia investigation is a hoax. hours after parading his
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intelligence chiefs out, all of whom said the opposite. why does he demean them like that do you think? >> well, i think whatever else we say about his inconsistencies, one of the things he's been inconsistent about since we briefed him in january of 2017 about the russian meddling is he cannot get his head around the fact of the russian meddling when the evidence for which was just overwhelming because it casts doubt on the legitimacy of his election and he certainly appears to me can never acknowledge that to his base who he was obviously playing to in his rally at wilkes-barre. >> phil mudd said this was a pr stunt. i know you know phil. he put it very bluntly. here he is. >> let's be clear. that was not a security meeting yesterday. >> so that was a pr stunt to your mind?
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>> that was a pr stunt. give me a break, yes. they got used. >> do you agree? >> well, i think i take issue a little bit with my good friend phil mudd on this. i thought it was pretty compelling to have -- i mean, yeah, it had a pr aura about it just because it was in the white house press room but i thought the messages that were conveyed all down the line by the heavy artillery in the national security arena was pretty compelling. and i thought all of their statements were genuine and sincere and they all made the point one way or another that russia poses a profound -- >> so you believe them. but did they get used by their boss? >> well, as subsequent events would indicate they certainly got as jennifer rubin of the "washington post" indicated, got hung out to dry big time and i was trying to imagine what i would have felt like were i
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still if dan coats' shoes had that happen to me. >> >> toads the russian's called the u.s. focus on russia hacking hysteria. it's been three weeks since the helsinki summit. dan coats who replaced you as dni chief has just said he is still not able to talk about what happened in the one on one meeting. that's different from what the secretary of state mike pompeo said. i want to play both of them for you. >> i'm not in a position to either understand fully or talk about what happened in helsinki. >> i had a number of conversations with president trump about what transpired in the meeting and i think i have a complete understanding of what took place. >> so can you think of any reason why the national intelligence chief. dan coats, is in the dark on the meeting. when the secretary of state says
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i'm confident trump 20e8d me what happened, he's telling one but not the other? >> i obviously can't explain it. it's terrible commentary actually on this whole helsz fias fiasco. what should have happened is convene a meeting of the national security council, those directly involved, secretary of state, secretary of defense and get a very thorough debriefing on what happened maybe the president is playing favorites with secretary of state who he does have affinity with. but it's sad when the dni is cut out. and to dan's credit he's been honest and public about it. >> he has been. you mentioned president trump and now president obama in january, 2017, which in part was about that dossier. i know you personally weren't a
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part of that word for word but you were in that group of intelligence chiefs. federal government is now, a judge has ruled, going to have to tell buzzfeed whether you, brennan, comey, admiral rogers briefed president obama before buzzfeed published the dossier which was on january 10. i believe you've been clear about that, right? that briefing happened before january 10, right? >> if you're speaking of the briefing to president obama, yes. >> okay, so the big question for you is when you look at this now and what's happened now and what still is still unverified in that dossier, do you have any problem with the fact that buzzfeed published it? >> well, you know, the media is going to do what it's going to do. it wasn't an intelligence document per se. that was a call on their part. we knew that that dossier was
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widely distributed, lots of people had it. in the runup to the briefing and the only reason in the no good deed goes unpunished department we thought that the president-elect at the time, trump, should know about the existence of the dossier and what was in it and we tried to be as discreet about that as possible ergo necking down to just james comey and the president-elect after the formal briefing on the intelligence community assessment which didn't include findings from the dossier. >> thank you very much, general clapper, appreciate your time as always, sir. >> thanks, erin. next, the man hunt for the killer of a prominent houston cardiologist had a bloody end. what happened? and some wealthy saudis decided to stay at the trump international hotel. why would they pick that hotel? they stayed there for five days. wait until you see what happened to the revenue of the entire hotel in five days.
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trump's hotel in new york receiving a huge boost by the saudi government. a five day stay by the crown prince's traj was enouentourageo put the hotel revenue back into the black. this is a big deal. in five days it's back in the black. when that revenue had been
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falling for two years. out front is jonathan o'connell. five day, a two-year trend is reversed and the trump hotel revenues are back in the black like that? >> it was quite a turner for the trump hotel so new york hotel prices have been competitive recently. then during this much publicized visit from the saudi prince, not for the trump hotel. some associated travelers of the prince all stayed at the trump international hotel. we don't know how many, but room rates are typically above $600 a night and if you add up a bunch of $600 a night for those five day days. >> do you have any sense on what the heck the money could have been spent on if it wasn't just
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the room or other things? >> all we know is the information for the most part that the -- what was provided to the unit there is. so the president's company doesn't own all of the hotel. investors do and those folks are not pleased with the revenue they've been seeing given what's happened with the trump brand in new york. >> and you talk about the donald trump but here's the thing, let's be clear, because we weren't born yesterday, the saudi entourage didn't just randomly pick this hotel and nothing was available. they picked the trump international hotel because it's the trump international hotel and you're talking about this happening so quickly. do you have any idea what they might have expected to get in return for such a massive spend or was it just, oh, hey, make sure we mention that, hey, we stayed at the trump hotel? >> it's hard to know. we've seen foreign countries book big business at trump's hotel in d.c. at a very public, obvious way. sometimes when their prime ministers or leaders are in town
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to meet at the white house with the president. they will also stay at the president's hotel down the street. this visit in new york? a little different in that it didn't appear. it doesn't say who paid for it or what the details of their stay are so it seems less obvious. >> and raises questions as to why because -- interesting, not the ordinary choice. thank you very much, appreciate your time, jonathan. next, the man who shot and killed a houston heart surgeon while he was biking cornered by police today. that story. and a so-called date rape drug being used to save lives. literally called a save shot by some. the story is stunning and dr. sanjay gupta is on the ground. crisp leaves of lettuce. freshly made dressing. clean food that looks this good. delivered to your desk. now delivering to home or office. panera.
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to have smoking behind me. rewards me basically so why am i hosting a dental convention after party in my vegas suite? or wearing a full-body wetsuit at this spa retreat? or sliding into this ski lodge with my mini horse kevin? because lets me do me, right? sorry, the cold makes him a little horse. you do you and get rewarded. you're wearing a hat. that's funny.
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new tonight, the manhunt is over. the man suspected of killing a top houston doctor who was on his bike in broad daylight dead tonight. police say joseph pappas killed himself as two police officers confronted him today. he was wearing a bulletproof vest. police george h.w. bush's former
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cardiologist was shot by pappas, possibly for revenge for pappas' mother dying in his care 20 years ago. this is a stung story. ed lavandera is "outfront" covering. this it is incredible when you think about this. a 20-year-old ago incident as he perceived it. how did police finally find pappas? >> remember, this murder took place on july 20th. it has been more than a week that all of this unfolded. and it was around 9:30 this morning central time that an employee with the houston park board who was going through a bayou area there where there was a history of graffiti spotted what that person thought would be the suspect that authorities had been looking for for so long. that person called into investigators and that brought a couple of officers out to the scene. the suspect, pappas, walked into this neighborhood where he was eventually confronted by two officers on the front lawn of
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this quiet neighborhood, and that is where he ended up taking his own life this morning. >> police say they found an extensive intelligence file, those are the words they used at the home on the doctor. but also with names of dozens of other people. what else do you know than? >> this really kind of speaks to the confusion what investigators found inside his home and the uncertainty of what exactly this man had planned that had investigators here in houston so concerned. inside that home it was described as his investigative file. police have told us that once they were able to go inside the home on wednesday, they found all of these extensive documents where essentially joseph pappas had been tracking and monitoring, had gathered a large amount of information on the doctor, how he was moving around, a lot of details about his life and essentially staking him, figuring out his movements to be able to plan all this. in the course of doing that, erin, there was also the name of
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several other dozen names of doctors and people who work at the texas medical center, this huge complex of medical buildings where the doctor also worked. those names were also passed over to medical center officials so they could be warned about all of this. one source describes to a local television station as a hit list. the police here kind of disagreed with that, wouldn't describe it as a hit list by any means that was a concern. but it was a list of names that were on this paper. and obviously that raised a lot of alarms for investigators. >> certainly did. ed, thank you very much. next, doctors using a common date rape drug now as something to stop suicides. dr. sanjay gupta has an incredible report you don't want to miss. that's next. sfx: [cell phone dialing]
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i'm a small business, but i have... big dreams... and big plans. so how do i make the efforts of 8 employees... feel like 50? how can i share new plans virtually? how can i download an e-file? virtual tours? zip-file? really big files? in seconds, not minutes... just like that. like everything... the answer is simple. i'll do what i've always done... dream more, dream faster, and above all... now, i'll dream gig. now more businesses, in more places, can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. could a drug stop suicidal thoughts in hours, literally?
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it's an incredible thing to even suggest. well, there is a drug. it's called ketamine. it's an anesthetic, also used illegally as a club drug. it's now being used by some doctors who have maischs in a serious suicidal state. it comes as we have learned calls to the national hotline have doubled. and as we remember the lives of anthony bourdain and kate spade, both lost to suicide. dr. sanjay gupta is "outfront." >> the predominant thought was i need to be -- i need to be dead. i don't want to be here. and that's for as far back as i ever remember. >> reporter: major depressive order, post traumatic stress. allen ferguson was 18 when he was first diagnosed. over 35 years, he tried just about all the medications modern medicine had to offer. did they work at all? >> no. i can say that now. >> allen picked a day he wanted
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to die, quit his job, gave away his dog zeke, and had a final phone call with loved ones. but almost as an after thought, his psychiatrist asked if he would consider an anesthetic medication known as a ketamine. >> i wasn't worried about trying something i never tried before. i was worried about trying something else that wasn't going to work. >> ketamine is widely thought of as a club drug, a dating rape drug. but at several hundred centers around the country, doctors have been using it off label to help patients at real risk of dying from suicide. some have even referred to it as a save shot. for allen, it worked, and fast, within hours. >> i honestly have never -- have never had the experience of waking up and not being sorry that i woke up. i don't use seib, but it is for me. it's phenomenal. >> reporter: allen got his first infusion on may 25th, and his
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depression went from severe to mild. after a second infusion on june 1, for the first time in his adult life, allen no longer had depression. dr. kevin kane gave allen his infusions. >> i tell people that ketamine is effective for 70% of patients with treatment-resistant depression. >> this is your room? >> this is my room. >> for about 40 minutes, allen sat here with his iv hooked up to his arm, a heart rate monitor and his music. >> people talk about hallucination, disassociations, even out of body experience. did you have any of that? >> the first day. >> reporter: allen told me it felt like his whole body was on novocain, like what you get at the dentist. >> we see those side effects. but i don't look at them aside effects. sometimes that can be a very powerful thing, that disassociation. >> ketamine also seems to target areas of the brain that have
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withered away due to depression and grow new synapses. none of this comes cheap, nearly $500 an infusion with mote needing up to six infusions to start with boosters several weeks after. for now insurance doesn't cover any of it. >> since you took ketamine have, you ever wanted to die from suicide again? >> i have not had one single thought. >> not a single thought? >> not one. >> i mean, sanjay, it's so incredible. obviously, i know a lot more to be tested and done. but you're talking about something that could work in literally hours as opposed to traditional treatments that don't work at all or drug names we all know. prozac can take weeks or months. and for someone suicidal, that can be the difference between life and death that is big difference. this sincerely days regard to using ketamine like this. ketamine as a drug has been around a long time. but it's just now being tested
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in these early trials, and they look promising. but it's that rapid onset i think, how fast it works, erin, that makes all the difference. it can take four to six weeks for some of these other antidepressants to start working. if you are suicidal, this has been referred to potentially as the save shot or as this rescue drug as some of the doctors have called it. there is not many things that behave that quickly. >> sanjay, thank you so much. >> you got it, erin. thank you. >> thank you so much to all of you for joining us. "ac 360" starts now. good evening. a a lot happening tonight, including two big developments that may touch on the president, one involving his former campaign chairman who is on trial for tax and bank fraud, the other involves the close friend of the president roger stone, and a woman who made headlines for another connected stanl scandal, kristin davis. today we learned she has