tv New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman CNN December 5, 2018 2:59am-4:01am PST
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this is "new day," december 5th, 6:00 here in washington. a highly anticipated filing from robert mueller spells out michael flynn has given substantial assistance to the russia investigation, so much so that mueller recommends flynn serve no jail time. mueller says flynn helped with three investigations, and two of them are redacted. >> as alisyn said, the
sentencing memo was heavily, heavily redacted, which means there's a lot we do not know and also that there are investigations still ongoing. we have not heard a responses from president trump, so how does he feel about flynn providing substantial cooperation. the state funeral for george h.w. bush occurs today. you are seeing live pictures from inside the capitol rotunda. all five living presidents and several world leaders will join the bush family at the national cathedral. we will cover this throughout the morning. the public viewing will end one hour from now, and then the flag-draped coffin will depart for the cathedral.
we have breaking news. >> this highly anticipated memo gave glimpses into where the investigation is headed, and there are two probes that are not public that flynn also assisted in. special counsel robert mueller recommending michael flynn serve no jail time for lying to the fbi, citing his substantial assistance in several ongoing investigations, including mueller's probe into russia's interference in the 2016 election, and any links or coordination between russia and the trump campaign. flynn sat for 19 interviews and handing over key documents and communications. mueller's team arguing flynn's
early cooperation was valuable because he was one of the only people knowing many details, but crucial details remain unknown since the majority of the court filing is redacted. >> what i think here is flynn provided information that is allowing mueller to make a criminal case against somebody. we can speculate or not speculate, but there's somebody out there who has a criminal case that could be coming. >> rudy guiliani playing down the significance of flynn's cooperation, telling nbc news if he had information to share about the president that would hurt the president, you would know it by now.
mueller noting that several senior members of the transition team publicly repeated false information. >> i have talked to general flynn. none of that came up. the subject matter of sanctions or the actions taken by the obama administration -- >> was there any contact in any way between trump or his associates and the kremlin or cut-outs they had? >> of course not. why would there be any contacts between the campaign? >> after flynn said there was lies, he was fired. mr. trump denies the allegation, but it has put flynn at the center of the probe as to if the president obstructed justice. the next step for michael flynn is sentencing. that will happen on december 18th.
he is one of five trump associates who have pleaded guilty as part of the russia robe. it continues to be a jam packed week for mueller's team, they will tell a judge how paul manafort broke the terms of his plea deal by lying to prosecutors, so john and alisyn, still a jam-packed week and a lot more to come. >> jessica, good to have you with us. we are bringing in our panel, david gregory, and karen moss. all the redacted stuff in here, and that fact that there's so much redacted may be the most significant thing. >> so much information was redacted in the documents, which means we don't know today exactly what michael flynn told the prosecutors.
we know he met with them 19 times, which is a lot of interviews, and we know that he cooperated in the special counsel's investigation, and we also know that he cooperated in another criminal investigation -- >> two others. >> -- about which there's no other information provided. >> and we also know they are still ongoing investigations, and they didn't want to tell us because they didn't want to endanger those investigations? >> yeah, the fact that it's redacted, it shows if there is other witnesses or pieces they are tracking down they don't want to provide that publicly so they will provide that under seal. >> the person who chanted the lock them up, lock her up, is actually not going to be locked up, which is not as odd as it may seem. they could have charged him with multiple things, and he lied
about multiple things and we knew that was going to be a case in the course of limited amount of scope, and mueller goes to great lengths to explain, this person because of his background and record should be held to a higher standard. he also says that he doesn't necessarily buy the argument of a false memory or feigned memory, and michael flynn has come across the russian ambassador, kislyak. we have the president of the united states who began every response with, to my recollection and the best of my recall, and the president has tipped off that mueller does not indulge fake amnesia, and if there's corroboration that shows you are lying or you should remember, they will point that out. and the president has been
dangling a pardon for a long time, and mueller says i see your pardon and raise you no jail time. >> in all of this where we are looking at crumbs and pieces and shreds, and here they are saying he provided substantial assistance with regard to who in the trump orbit may have had contact with russians who were trying to compromise the election. there are so many pieces that are interesting. it was sally yates that said this guy pay be compromised about the russians, and at critical moments that mueller is looking at, before the campaign, that trump tower meeting, other contacts around the leaking of materials by wikileaks having hacked the dnc, and you put all of this together and it's,
again, for me, a wow moment. i think we are beginning to see something take shape. that's the power of narrative. mueller is going to finally do something to put all of this together and i think that's powerful. >> you are the czar of that notion. please explain to us what david is talking about there. you keep track of the big picture here better than anybody i know. what do you see? >> you are seeing mueller build a methodical and legal case, and the challenge is we are only getting glimpses of it. you know, we're looking at an investigation that is larger than we think it is, and we are looking at an investigation that is better informed, more knowled knowledgeable and inciteful that we think it is. every document that robert mueller has filed since the first one, we are surprised
about what he knows, and if you put that together over 17 months, we know bob mueller knows an incredible amount of information and we don't know yet where that's going. >> it is clear that this is not wrapping up soon, and that was wishful thinking for those who thought before the midterms it will be wrapped up or before the end of the year, and doesn't all these filings tell you, no, it's not wrapping up soon? >> i felt like we are seventh inningish, that's how it felt to me. that's how i measure where we are in the case. i think certainly the flynn documents show there are ongoing investigations that the prosecutors are not yet willing to reveal publicly and that means there are still people that might be charged with
things. there are still aspects of this investigation that are live and sensitive. that's what that tells us. on the other hand we are seeing some of the individuals come towards their sentencing, some of the key individuals. as it pertains to individuals other than perhaps the implications of those closest to the president or the president, we're seeing some of those ends wrapped up. >> some parts of the investigation do appear close to being at an end at least for these people. laura, i want to ask you. one of the messages sent in the memo was that michael flynn cooperated early and that was very helpful, the special counsel's memo said, it was helpful in a way to corner other people to get them to testify and testify honestly, to signal we know what michael flynn has said and we know what went on here. >> that's fine investigation.
somebody who purportedly was the first person to tell the president, hey, vladimir putin called to congratulate you, and the same person who is the common theme every time a russian ambassador is mentioned, and the idea of the logan act and the sanctions against russia and telling vladimir putin not to retaliate, what does he know? and the notion that mueller operates and every prosecutor does operate better when people do not know what is coming next. the first domino to fall is the person that makes everybody nervous and says i better go first. the first to squeal may get the best deal. and the first person to squeal in the issue has no jail time, and compare and contrast to michael cohen. you think about the case, especially the anxiety is
building more, and you have the anxiety building about who might be next and people are raising their hands and trying to perhaps secure the deal, because the speculative pardon no longer seems appealing. >> and laura sort of touched on it, the shear amount of unrelated criminality going on in the trump campaign. we gloss over it in the documents with michael flynn, and he was working for turkey while serving as trump's campaign adviser, and paul manafort, campaign chairman working on a decade-long $60 million money laundering scheme. it's the shear amount of
criminal stuff they were involved in unrelated to the criminal stuff they were doing on behalf of the trump campaign. >> it's a reminder that people be critical of the prosecutors going in different directions. prosecutors, if they come upon criminal acts, they will make a case. and rudy guiliani's political spin, mueller knows what he is doing, and rudy guiliani employed the same tactics, and you pinch somebody, and if they are facing some kind of criminal charge they might be pressured to tell the truth. we know it's the truth because mueller is not just going with anybody's testimony here. all of these are puzzle pieces that fit together in whatever the narrative is going to be. we don't know where that leads. we don't know if it leads to people directly close to him but these are people whose testimony can't be corroborated, not just
that they are lying to save their skin. >> and michael flynn may not get jail time is because he was charged with only one count of lying. >> he's not pleading to what was in the memo. coming up next we will talk to somebody who was there at the very beginning, the former director of national intelligence, james clapper. we will talk to him about the sentencing memo, and he knows michael flynn very well, and dramatic developments in the khashoggi murder. stay with us. round. because each job in energy creates many more in this town.
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-when insurance needs translating, get answers in plain english at progressiveanswers.com. ♪ -he wants you to sign karen's birthday card. it's a high honor. special counsel robert mueller recommending former trump national security adviser, michael flynn, get no jail time after giving what he called substantial assistance in the russia probe. mueller says flynn is cooperating with at least three ongoing investigations, two of which we know nothing about. joining us now is former director of national intelligence and cnn national security analyst, james clapper. director, it's good to have you here with us. you know michael flynn. he worked for you. what did you think about the headlines that came out last night about mueller? >> i was not terribly surprised. i, like everybody else, have been torturing the filing and
getting as much as we can out of it, and the most intriguing thing is what is not there, what is redacted talking about the ongoing investigations. obviously the question is who is that? but i think the leniency shown towards mike is appropriate given his military service and his early and frequent cooperation, so overall not surprised. >> there's a line in this memo which is particularly interesting and i want you to weigh in on it. the defendant's extensive government service should have made him aware of providing false information, and you worked for the government for decades and he should have known better is what he is saying. >> exactly, john.
when you reach that level as a three-star officer, you have been briefed and warned by the likes of general counsels and things like that about the dos and don't. it's amazing, quite frankly, he engaged in criminal activity. that's one thing that struck me about the filing with all the attention focused on lying about contacts with the russians, and they also misled about his engagement with turkey and it was much more widespread than i was led to believe. >> since you have been parsing this file, how do you think this moves the narrative forward, if it does? >> the combination of this document and what is not
revealed in it, and what is forthcoming with paul manafort, it's probably not going to be a good week at the white house. >> senators were briefed by cia director, gina haspel, about what happened with khashoggi, and they left that briefing fuming. let's play some sound of the senators there. >> there's not a smoking gun, it's a smoking saw. there's zero chance this happened without the crown prince. >> if he was in front of a jury he would be convicted in 30 minutes of guilty. >> that is so different than what pompeo said, and james mattis, they said there's no smoking gun, and they are saying we just heard from the cia director and there is.
how could there be such a difference? >> first thing i want to do is commend gina haspel, because it's clear that she did, in fact, abide by the writ of truth to power. i think she laid out very straightforwardly the evidence from the intelligence sources about what happened and obviously mohammed bin salman's involvement in this. i guess if their smoking gun would have been you interviewing mohammed bin salman and he admitted publicly on live television that he directed the killing, well, you probably did not have that but not too far short of that. when the intelligence community
comes out and say they have high confidence, as i said before, you can take that to the bank. there were multiple sources used to put this story together, each of which the agency had high confidence. it's a pretty compelling case and i am sure she laid it out. >> does it tell you why they did not have gina haspel go last week? there was a question about why isn't the white house offering her up? >> i did not get the strategy there, because typically in any event like this you would always have an intelligence component and a principle, in this case gina or dan coates, the dni, as part of the delegation and it's clear the administration's strategy was we omit intelligence -- >> nobody will notice. >> -- nobody will notice and we
will marginalize the intelligence, and i wouldn't be surprised if they get an all-house briefing on this. i think there will be mounting pressure for that because then some senators who were excluded who were not happy about that. >> not at all. let me tell you what the president said about this, and i think it's more interesting what the secretary of defense and secretary of state said about it. listen. >> the cia has looked at it and studied it a lot and have nothing definitive. >> i don't know if anybody is going to be able to conclude that the crown prince did it. >> we have no smoking gun that the crown prince was involved. >> there's no direct evidence linking him to the murder of jamal khashoggi. >> i guess i am most surprised to hear from mattis and what is the defendant secretary doing
there? >> i don't know. i wish secretary mattis had remained silent about it, if nothing else, because -- and he of all people because he is an expert on the mideast, and he has extensive experience in the region when he was central command commander, and he understands how things separate in the region, and specifically in saudi arabia. i was a little taken back by his saying that, because the intelligence evidence, even what is publicly known, is pretty compelling. >> james clapper, thank you very much. ahead on "new day" we will speak with senator marco rubio on the hearing on khashoggi's murder. he has a lot to say about this. and the memorial for president george h.w. bush gets under way in just hours.
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rotunda. for the next half hour visitors can pay respect to the scene you see on your tv screen, and you can see all sorts of onlookers and people paying their respect even at this early hour. hours from now president trump and all living presidents will join the bush family and world leaders to honor the 41st president at his state funeral. cnn's phil mattingly is live on capitol hill. >> reporter: the federal stock markets are close and in a few moments president will bid its final farewell to president
george h.w. bush. the procession with the bush family will proceed to the national cathedral, and his son, george w. bush, and foreign canadian prime minister and others will do the same. the presidents club, every living president will be in attendance. one of the interesting elements, president trump does not have a well-established relationship with many of the presidents, has not spoken to jimmy carter or clinton and has not spoke with obama since taking office. i do want to track back and we are talking about what is happening today and tomorrow when the president travels back
to texas, but what happened last night in the rotunda, two really organic moments that caught everybody's attention. the first is george h.w. bush and jeb bush returning unannounced to greet those waiting in line for hours, and at one point former president george h.w. bush, former president bush was holding a baby, and bob dole is also dealing with issues now and being helped up and giving a final salute to george h.w. bush, once a political opponent and then a political ally, and i can't think of a more noteworthy picture than what you are looking at right now. >> world war ii lieutenant
saluting lieutenant george h.w. bush, two heroes that dedicated their lives to service of this country. phil mattingly, great to have you with us. >> that was a really heartwarming moment. >> there's a lot of history between bob dole and george h.w. bush, and they did spent as much as rivals as friends. coming up we will talk much more about this, what we can expect between the living presidents that will be here today, to observe this moment in history. stay with us. can determine your future. your school. your job. your dreams. your problems. (indistinct shouting) but at the y, we create opportunities for everyone, no matter who you are or where you're from. for a better us, donate to your local y today.
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the fact they are all there together is a reflection of george h.w. bush. >> it is who he was, what he stood for, which was to bring people together across the aisle, and it's also a reflection that there's a lot asked of presidents. you play a lot of different roles. you are consoler and commander-in-chief and all those things, and this is one of those rare moments around the death of a former president where different eras come together for the persons of the people that led us through them, and you look at the styles and the experiences of different people, bill clinton, the scandals he confronted, and jimmy carter and the life he led since he was president, and george w. bush. i was reflecting and going through things on how he brought people together, and the incredible trajectory he had when he was taking us up to the
invasion of kuwait, and he travelled the world meeting with many of the people, and what you saw from dole yesterday and what you are talking about now, it's bringing all these people back together around him one last time. >> doug, normally a sitting president would give the eulogy, but president trump will not do that for a host of reasons, and i thought it was so gracious of jeb bush, he gave him a pass, basically. he said -- he was very gracious. listen. he says, what people want to talk about, well, why isn't the president giving the eulogy? a unique circumstance we have, my brother was a president. sorry. >> it's only natural he will
have donald trump there, and it could have had a circus atmosphere to it. it's working out nicely. we will have five presidents there. when richard nixon died in 1994, there were five and the word watergate was never mentioned in 1994, and i don't think you will hear about willy horton today, and it's just a moment where the country will put the legacy of world war ii. >> yeah, and it's just so interesting, you are having a moment of history inside this building that spans decades and decades. david gregory, i was struck last night the picture of president trump and bush meeting at the blair house, and the bush family
has gone out of their way to diffuse this because they don't want it to be part of that today. i am expecting all the presidents will rise to the occasion when they are there in the pew there. george w. bush became close to the clintons and their disaster relief, and i don't think the bush family wants any kind of distraction with president trump, and it's because george w. bush is more fiery than his mother, and i think they all wanted to make the most appropriate statement possible. for me, what i will be looking for is the focus on george w. bush. all of us, when we watch public figures, we see ourselves as a father and a son, and you understand struggling with your
father when you are younger and trying to live up to him and his expectations, and then so much expectation and so much love between them when he, george w. bush went through the difficult moments of his presidency, and it's something i think we will hear a lot about today. >> i think we will see the love today. >> frank, as john can tell you, i love body language and we will have a lot of it, we're going to have a lot of it. i can't help -- obviously this is about bush 41 today, but i can't help watching what the body language will be between president obama and michelle obama and donald trump and bill clinton and all of that. that's just going to be there, whether we like it or not today. of course there is tension because of what the last three years have been like. >> i think the focus will be so
much on that family and that casket and that man and what he stood for. i think it will be fascinating to watch donald trump to see what he does, because he's so unconventional. the other presidents have been through this before, they have been, as i mentioned, the grievers in chief. there's a special club that happens among former presidents when they get out, they have all been through this incredibly intense 24/7 nonstop experience, and so to come and remember somebody like this -- and it's more poignant because of where our politics are, it's absolutely more poignant. we are grieving not only the passage of a man but the passage of time. >> donald trump wants to be part of the club. he wants to be embraced.
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ingenious space- neat nest™ by fasaving design. all designed to stack and protect the lids, and the pan surface. farberware neat nest™. stacked & intact™ now to this important story. there are allegations of election fraud in this north carolina congressional race and they now have led to a criminal investigation. one of the examples of what went wrong or what is weird, some voters claim volunteers offered to turn in absentee ballots on their behalf, and that raised questions about the 904 votes.
>> cnn correspondent, drew griffith live in raleigh with the latest. >> reporter: we are learning it's not just this election but this criminal investigation is looking back at elections in 2016, all involving this one north carolina congressional district 9 and voter application absentee ballots. emma is a stormy in a nutshell. she had no intention of voting until a woman showed up at her door. >> do you remember requesting be a absentee ballot? >> huh-uh. huh-uh. >> you don't know how that absentee ballot showed up? >> i don't. i really don't. >> she is now at the center of a voter fraud investigation in north carolina. she is one of several voters coming forward to talk about a group of people showing up at door steps, offering to help
fill out absentee ballots and taking the ballots away with no idea what happened. emma shipman doesn't know who she voted for. >> if you want to vote for this guy or that guy, was that you picking it? >> huh-uh. huh-uh. >> you don't know what happened with your vote or your ballot? >> i don't know what happened. >> it turns out shipman was targeted by a small group of people tied together by a republican operative, a convicted felon who is connected to absentee ballot activity in another election. >> dallas appears to be in hiding, and he worked for mark
harris who won by 905 votes. harris admits the state is asking for documents for its investigation, and he says if dallas broke the law, he is not aware of any illegal conduct in connection with the race. as for the mccrae and dallas operation, here's what democrats allege, dallas's wife and friends and family registered people to vote and then later signed the ballots themselves as witnesses, a handful of people signing more than 100 ballots. >> lacey alison was not planning to vote until a woman showed up
with an application. >> you filled out an application for an absentee ballot? >> no, she filled it out and said she was going to bring it back for me to sign. i never saw her again. >> alison, turns out had the woman's number, and she was friends with a woman that signed 42 of the suspected ballots. >> lisa, this is drew griffin with cnn and i am recording this call. can you tell us what is going on with the absentee ballots? >> i have no comment. thank you. >> another woman that signed 30 ballots told cnn affiliate that dallas paid her between $75 and $100 to harvest balance kwruploe handed them into dallas. >> i don't know what happened to them after i dropped them off. >> besides the multiple witnesses signatures, there are
also absentee ballots that were never returned in a neighboring county, officials say that's suspicious too. >> reporter: guys, regardless of how the criminal investigation turns out, the board of elections here in raleigh, the state board of elections has a decision to make. they need to certify the election and put the republican in congress or have a do over election, which is possible. there's a new wrinkle overnight. steny hoyer, the incoming majority leader of the democrats in the house says if there's any problems or questions about the validity of the vote down here they are not going to seat republican mark harris in the new congress. >> drew, we are so glad you are staying on all of these wrinkles for us. it's an important case. >> the special counsel's sentencing for michael flynn, the memo offers new clues.
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the filing shows he has had 19 interviews with the special counsel's office. >> if this is the best we have got, it's time he writes the report. >> he is saying senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. i would be a little nervous if i were the president. >> i have zero question in my mind that the crown prince ordered the killing. >> we expect the saudis are going to do everything they can to uncover who is responsible. >> the united states should send a very strong message. >> president bush will be