a lot more news ahead. let's turn things over to don lemon and "cnn tonight." this is "cnn tonight," i'm don lemon. it's on. the democratic opponent this president may fear the most launches his campaign with a shot across the bow. joe biden, evoking president trump's response to the deadly white supremacist violence in charlottesville. a moment that will forever be a flash point in the trump presidency. >> he said there were "some very fine people on both sides" very fine people on both sides? with those words the president of the united states assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it.

and in that moment i knew the threat to this nation was unlike any i had ever seen in my lifetime. >> so that's it. here's a question. which charlottesville event will decide the direction of this country? will it be the president's defense of white supremacists? or will it be biden standing in opposition at the very start of his campaign? framing the choice in 2020 as one that will define the character of this country. >> we are in the battle for the soul of this nation. i believe history will look back on four years of this president and all he embraces as an abhorrent moment in time. but if we give donald trump eight years in the white house we will forever and fundamentally alter the character of this nation, who we are. and i cannot stand by and watch that happen.

the core values of this nation, our standing in the world, our very democracy, everybody that's made america, america at stake. >> but can character trump trumpism? can character trump trumpism? i want you to listen to what biden said. it was just a little while ago. it was at a fundraiser in philadelphia. and here is the quote. it says "i don't think there's ever been a time, an election where more is at stake about the future of the country. i'm hoping that in a couple of years we'll look back and say whether it's me or anybody else replacing it that this is an aberration in american history, this four years, because it is not who we are." so when biden suggests that donald trump is like a cancer on the presidency, one that can be excised and the country will be healed, is he right?

or is he ignoring not only everything that has happened in the trump era, but also the lesson of eight years of opposition to president barack obama? when republicans did everything in their power to stop his agenda in its tracks. remember the quote, make him a one-term president. time will tell. biden is a front runner, but he's a long way from being the nominee. and he certainly has things to regret over his very long career. we all have things in our past that we wish we could undo. i've got to think that joe biden wishes he could undo his handling of anita hill's testimony during clarence thomas's nomination, there he is up on the screen. he said last month she faced hostile and insulting questioning when she testified that thomas had sexually

harassed her. and then biden went on to say that anita hill "paid a terrible price, she was abused through the hearing, she was taken advantage of, her reputation was attacked," that's a quote. and we're learning that the former vice president called her earlier this month to personally share his regret. but hill tells "the new york times" tonight that she is not satisfied and can't support biden's candidacy. so i want you to think about this, okay? why should she? don't you think it's unfair to expect her to support him? it's unfair to expect that anita hill would just put aside an experience that was so publicly painful, an experience that changed everything for her, one she's had to live with for 28 years, surely you can understand that, why should we expect that? she's not required to support

biden. and we don't know what was said in their private conversation. i think it is unfair to assume that joe biden's regret was a transaction. something he did to get her support. you can believe that what joe biden did in 1991 during the thomas hearings was wrong, and at the same time believe that joe biden would not handle things the same way in 2019, in 2020, in 2021 or 2022. 2019 lens for 1991. voters will make up their minds about that, about whether he has done enough to apologize and make amends and how important that is to their vote. as for anita hill, she gets to believe and demand whatever she wants after the experience she went through. it's not for anyone else to say

what apology she should accept or not accept. she also told the "times" this, listen, another quote that she does not find mr. biden's conduct disqualifying. that's what she said. that's what the article says. but as biden declared his candidacy today it seems like he has gotten under some people's skin. i just want you to listen to something the president's daughter-in-law lara trump said today. >> joe biden is just among a sea now of other candidates who quite frankly are all trying to out-bernie one another. i didn't hear any proposals for the future of this country in his announcement video he made there, race baiting as usual as we see from the democrats. >> race baiting. you would think those words would just stick in her throat, accusing joe biden of race

baiting. has she met donald trump? when it's her father-in-law, the president of the united states who has biden points out defended white supremacists in charlottesville -- >> you also had people that were very fine people on both sides, you had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me. i saw the same pictures as you did. >> well, remember it was donald trump who launched his campaign with an attack on mexicans, who called african nations shit hole countries, who promoted the racist birther lie that president obama was not born in this country. president trump, who tweets about anything and everything, never god around to tweeting about the burnings of three african-american churches in louisiana just a few weeks ago, never got around to that. also, did he ever apologize to president obama? on and on and on. the question again, can

character trump trumpism? can biden unite a party whose diverse progressive wing seems to be getting all the attention. so they may seem to be getting all the attention. but the fact is about 50% of the democratic voters identify as moderate or conservative. about the same percentage are at least 50 years old. so don't count biden out. he could be right up their alley. this election won't be decided on twitter. it will be decided at the ballot box. >> the fact of the matter is the vast majority of the members of the democratic party are still basically liberal, moderate democrats in the traditional sense. show me the really left, left, left wingers.

the idea that the democratic stood on its head, i don't get it. >> here's the dilemma for democrats, okay? will this election be about breaking the mold or about electability? which means beating trump. van jones is going to be on the program a little bit later but our own van jones, and i told him this is brilliant, he said this, he put it really well today, with the margin of trump's victory, just about 77,744 votes in three states, you've got to take a really close look at a guy who could win those votes. >> do we want to go with new, fresh, young faces going to throw out, you know, the most inspiring ideas, or do we just need to find somebody who can bring us back together and frankly get those 70,000 midwestern voters to come back

over the face. we lost by a total of 70,000 votes. joe biden can get those 70,000 votes without getting out of bed in the morning. >> democrats are facing the momentous choice of who can best challenge trump in 2020, they face another equally momentous choice, what to do about a president who's lied to the american people, who's stonewalling, ordering his aides to defy luawful subpoenas from congress, who tried again and again to obstruct justice and pressured his aides to do it for him. it's not just me who's saying that. okay? fasten your seat belts. fox news analyst andrew napolitano. >> his job is to preserve, protect and uphold the constitution of the united states, to enforce federal law, not to violate it. if he had ordered his aides to violate federal law, to save a human life, or to preserve human

freedom he would at least have a moral defense to his behavior. but ordering them to break federal law to save him from the consequences of his own behavior, that is immoral, that is criminal, that is defenseless, and that is condemnable. >> fox news, judge andrew napolitano. >> what are directs going to do? are they going to rely on the ballot box, rely on impeachment? will they unite behind a candidate who can defeat trump? or will they put the president on trial? like i said it is a momentous choice, one that could change the direction of this country. to kaitlan collins at the white house, good evening to you. you've got reporting about the president and how worried he is

about joe biden. what are you hearing? >> reporter: don, the president was just asked what he thinks about joe biden entering the race today. of course he was repeating the same criticisms he had earlier in the day, essentially questioning his intelligence. but don he did seem bothered by the fact that in joe biden's video he immediately brought up charlottesville and the way the president was criticized for how he handled that, as you showed the video of what the president said and what the president seemed to be worried about there, don, despite what he thinks of joe biden and despite his criticisms of him, he kdid note the fact that he does have name recognition, sources have said that the president is worried about when it comes to joe biden. >> biden was front and center today, talk of the news, the president wasn't on tv as much. is that pretty much the worst fate of all for president trump? >> reporter: we've talked to campaign sources and they've said they do think it could be a problem with the president because it's such a crowded

field of democrats which they think it could be helpful, they think the democrats will badly bruise each other before the end of the primary. a president who likes to be on the headlines, that's something they're worried about, when the president sees the democrats getting air time, the president is going to want to involve himself more in a race than typically you would see a president do so. >> kaitlan collins at the white house, thank you so much. can joe biden rebuild a blue wall that donald trump broke down in 2016? i'm going to ask a midwestern former governor who knows biden well, and that is john casey, he's next. with instant confirmation... i got it! what? what? l.a. bookers book apartments and vacation homes as easy as hotels. ridin' scooter! l.a. baby! l.a. baby! be a booker you're welcome. at booking.com

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new lower price. wow. that's a lot of asparagus. yeah, you said get a bunch of asparagus. oh, you... a bunch. i... thought you kinda... campaign today joe biden did not go after his democratic rivals, instead taking direct aim at donald trump's presidency, saying if trump wins a second term he'll forever change the character of america. let's discuss. john kasich, the former republican governor of ohio is here and it's always a pleasure to have you. okay, let's talk here. good evening, by the way. >> good evening. >> you know biden well. >> i do. >> cnn is reporting that president trump is worried about biden, should he be, john? >> sure, of course he should be. it was interesting don as you mentioned that he didn't attack any of his democrat opponents here.

what i found interesting, as i watched that little video this morning i think he's just going to try to ignore them. i think his campaign now is going to direct himself at donald trump. i don't think he's going to be -- he's going to get pulled in to some degree but i think at all times he's going to be aiming at trump. it's me and trump. here's what trump is, here's what i am, and i think that's what he's going to try to do. as to whether he can avoid the pitfalls, we'll have to wait and see. joe's got a lot of experience. people say, well, you know, he had other campaigns that didn't go very well. you have to learn and he's learned a lot. so we'll see what happens. he's going to have gaffes. i said the other day, don, look, he likes to talk a lot. i told somebody, i got on a plane with him in washington, we landed in new york, when we got on the plane in washington i said how you doing and when we landed in new york he finished. so he talks. but as john mccain used to say joe talks a lot, but we love him. >> you said it's nice to see

you. >> exactly. >> i've got to ask you, though, we can talk about pitfalls, it's early on, maybe it's good, who knows, that he gets these things out of the way early and then he's on to something else. i don't know. you're the political person. you're also a midwestern governor. you know the people. >> i also ran for president. >> yes, you sure did. can biden rebuild that blue wall that trump broke through, win back those states like pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan maybe even your home state? >> don, doesn't he feel -- doesn't joe biden feel like a person that can talk to the lunch bucket crowd, to the blue collar crowd? i mean, that's why i relate to joe. i'm from pittsburgh originally, he's over there in delaware. he's a guy he does a lot of hugging and how you doing, man, kind of thing and he looks you in the eye. and he has an appeal, a certain appeal because what people want to know is do you get me? and what biden, i think, can communicate, if he does it well,

that hey, i get you, i understand you, i understand what your problem is, because i grew up with it. and, you know, i think that that is a key to pennsylvania, to michigan, to ohio, to wisconsin. i can't predict the states yet. but yes, i think that he could because of who he is and his positions that will be more moderate i think he will be able to win those votes and i think he'll win some disaffected republicans if he makes it through, we'll see. >> all right. i think you're onto something there. i think you're onto something because those are the people, the disaffected republicans, the centrists in the democratic party, actually the moderates, the people who actually go out and vote the most, they felt that they weren't paid attention to in 2016, right, like, you know, and so many of them voted for trump. here's my question then. you know what it's like to be a candidate in the primary who could have been a formidable player in the general election. but with the party seemingly,

that's seemingly going, if you look at the news media you might believe are the people who get the attention that it's going in another direction. i'm wondering how joe biden can navigate that. let me preface this by saying 50% of the democratic voters identify as moderate or conservative and the same percentage are at least 50 years old and those are the people who show up. so, again, my question is, can biden navigate that? >> well, i think don, what you have to understand is think about this when i was in the race against trump we had rules in the republican party winner takes all. he'd get 30% of the vote and lose 70% of the vote and he'd win all the delegates. the democratic party is different. they're not going to have winner take all. joe's going to claim the mantle. i think it's why terry mccullough didn't get in the race, he saw biden in his lane

and he was going to big foot him. he doesn't have to win the hard left, he has to win enough to accumulate delegates. i heard you say earlier who's going to break the mold and have all these new ideas? how about these ideas, that debt matters and we shouldn't enslave our kids, the idea that we need to deal with health care and help preexisting conditions, without blowing up the whole trade. walking away from trade deals or walking away from the climate deal, those are really good ideas, you don't have to go reinvent the wheel with the green new deal in order to have some good ideas. and a return, by the way, to some normalcy, return to normalcy. trump -- or biden's message today was, did you hear what the president said about charlottesville and there were many good people? biden says that's not the country we want to believe in. it's a message bigger than his

tax plan, his health care plan, it's a message of values. we'll see how it goes. >> he's saying he hopes we'll look back over time and say the last four years, this your fierce, that it was -- that somehow it didn't happen, he said it was an aberration, is what he said. let me ask you this. he says that he believes that if you get rid of this president that you will get rid of this -- you will put this toxic era behind us. do you think it's that simple? >> no, i don't. i think -- but what biden could do, or what any leader could do is, don, he needs to bring out the best in ourselves. see, i have a different theory than a lot of people. i think power comes from the bottom up. if you look at the civil rights movement the politicians were running as fast as they could away from the issues. it was only when the churches, the public, people who were not church people, who saw the injustice, the lack of morality who said we're changing this and they just shoved it down the

politicians' throats. there were leaders in the politics but frankly the change came from the people. and what we have to do is convince people in this country any leader who, hey, remember what john kennedy said, it's not what your country does for you, it's what you do for your country. this notion that we can be digger and better that we all matter and we don't have to hate one another, i saw you and cuomo talking about religion the other day. love god, love your neighbor as you want your neighbor to love you. look out for somebody else. this is where we need to get back to. whoever can ignite that, i think, is going to do well. i found that on the trail, don, issues mattered less and the fact that i could connect with them in terms of where they live and what their problems were mattered more. >> yeah. so, listen, you're close second behind joe biden for loving to talk, i'm going to ask you for a one-word answer to this question, if you'll indulge me. >> i admit that.

>> if it is biden versus trump, would you vote for biden? >> let's wait and see how this all goes. >> that's not one word. you know, i didn't vote -- because i don't know. i don't know how joe biden's going to do and i'm not going to -- >> if it was. >> i'm not -- >> i'm not saying he's going -- >> short answer, when the time comes, i'll let you know. how's that? anti-biden short answer. not saying another word. >> that was a politician's answer, thank you, john kasich. >> i just don't know. what if i run, you going to vote for me if i run, d. lemon? >> it depends what you do over time. >> wait a minute, you're doing the same thing. >> if you answered one word, i would have answered one word too. so my answer is no. how about that? i'm kidding. >> oh, come on. you're breaking my heart. >> i've got to run, governor. >> don't do that to me. >> see you next time. appreciate your time. >> thank you. a lot more on former vice president joe biden announcing his bid for president, coming

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click, call, or visit a store today. joe biden is off and running officially launching his campaign for president and focusing his pitch on president trump. here to discuss now is biden's -- discuss biden's strategy is ryan lizza, asia rasco, and jonathan martin. thank you for coming on, i appreciate it. biden is taking on trump directly, making his pitch about morals, not policy. do you think that's the right strategy? >> i think the way he came out

of the gate in making this a race about hymn versim versus t here's why trump is really, really bad for the country i think that plays into his number one strength which is, look at the cnn poll, i believe from february, that said democratic primary voters, the number one thing they want is someone who can beat trump. number two is experience. and number three is to work across the aisle with republicans. those are the three top things in a major poll, three things that biden has as his strengths. and so i think he's a little bit stronger than some of the coverage suggests today actually, there's been a lot of focus on his weaknesses and his shifting positions over the years and whether he's too old. he's leaning into those three strengths. he's the guy that can beat trump. >> let me just say this. you were here with me through 2016. you remember i'm saying hey, listen, everybody is not -- they're downplaying or

undecimating trump. >> you told me that many times. >> i said i think he can win the nomination and the presidency. i agree with you about joe biden. maybe many of us have it wrong. i think some of the stuff, listen, what he did -- i'm not saying that it was right on some issues but people are looking back at things that happened a long time ago through a 2019 lens. that's not excusing what he did. but i do think a lot of it is a tempest in a teapot and it's democrats fighting among themselves. and i don't know if this is actually going to matter. i think it's what you said, democrats want someone who is going to beat donald trump. it is beat trump is their build that wall. do you agree with that, aisha? >> i absolutely agree with that. that's what they're looking for. the question is what do they think that will actually look like and what that will actually

be? my colleague at npr danielle kurtzlavin wrote about electability and whether it kind of ups those that are kind of white and male and look like most previous presidents and is the idea of electability this idea that you have to get somebody who kind of looks like we've always thought was presidential. i think what joe biden will have to answer is not just what he thought in the past but who is he today? so what -- if he's not the same person he was back then what is he offering to democrats and what is the vision and the story that he's going to offer? and i don't think that can just be anti-trump. i think that there has to be some type of vision going forward. >> let me ask you, something, john than, i promise i'll bring you in. he's going on "the view" tomorrow, gears towards women.

what does he say, you know he's going to be asked about that. >> that's the question because he has this issue with what happened with anita hill and is he going -- and he talked to her but hasn't necessarily -- she's not satisfied with his ans wers on that. and then he has the issues of touching, him being too touchy with women and people in general. how does he answer that? i think the problem that he has had at times is wanting to apologize but this idea that you can't be weak if you apologize for everything. so how do you kind of -- how do you square that? how do you say that i've changed? >> the answer, jonathan, she talked about the touching and all that, if you look at the polling that happened after that, it seemed to be something, astir in the media and the people polled said, oh, made him uncomfortable, shouldn't do it, but it wasn't a disqualifying issue for them. same thing, anita hill said so we know in the "new york times"

anita hill does not find mr. biden's conduct disqualifying. i'm open to people changing. talk to me, jonathan. >> we talked to anita hill yesterday at the "times" and she obviously is not fully satisfied with joe biden's explanation and his attempt. but what's puzzling, don, about the hill situation is why biden wouldn't reach out earlier and try and make that right. this came up during the brett kavanaugh hearing last fall when biden was widely accepted to run for president, why wouldn't he have gone to see her then or at least picked up the phone then? we did a story last year where barbara boxer, a joe biden friend and former colleague, was pleading with him in our paper in print to say joe's got to fix this, you've got to step up and i don't know why he waited so long. it is going to create a challenge. don, you raise an important point here and that is what the democratic primary?

is it the loudest voices who are following this race ten months out who tend to be online, especially on twitter, who obviously don't like biden? or is it a kind of larger, more middle class sort of less politically driven, less ideological elect rorate that's more open to biden. the joe biden voter is frankly over 50, and in many cases over 60. that's kind of forgotten, i think, but the democratic primary, as young as the party is sort of becoming because young folks obviously can't stand president trump it's still dominated primaries by older voters, in a place like iowa and new hampshire, especially, don, those are full of older voters who actually like biden. >> you bring up an interesting point. the "times" did reporting saying that most of the people who vote in caucuses and general

elections are not on twitter. >> that's right. >> right? and they are more moderate than -- >> more moderate, more diverse, more middle class, right, right. >> and those are the people who show up to the polls. >> correct. >> we're going to talk about what joe biden said at a fundraiser, and still talk about what he said about the former president. to endorse or not to endorse, we'll be back, don't go anywhere. er. faster. smarter. because to be the best, is to never ever stop making it better. there's never been a better time to become part of the mercedes-benz family. visit the mercedes-benz spring event before april 30th for exceptional lease and financing offers on the 2019 c 300. mike and jen doyle? yeah. time for medicare, huh. i have no idea how we're going to get through this. follow me. choosing a plan can be super-complicated.

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ryan, ayesha, jonathan, they are back with me. ryan, you first, biden spoke more about trump at a fundraiser tonight saying this, this kind of thing that's generated that the way to gain power and to control is to split the nation, pit people against people, you come and you say the reason you got a problem -- you got a problem, you middle class guy, you lost your job or you're worried about your job is because of the other, because of

the black guy or women have too much power or the migrant is coming. so he's talking about when he said the other, he's talking about the other, otherizing people. he's saying the president is selling a message of hate. >> yeah. and, well, i mean, i don't mean to be, you know, sarcastic but it is kind of funny he's at this high dollar fundraiser talking about the middle class guy. that aside -- >> where's he going to get the money though man? >> opticswise, it's strange they started the campaign at a fundraiser. look, again, he's going back to this, you know, biden against trump. he's the guy that's going to take on trump. he wants voters to visualize him on that stage with trump. and going through the long, long list of things that democrats will use to make the case

against trump. it is kind of puzzling that he's doing that more than some of the other candidates. you know what i mean? i've been surprised going out -- i spent three days in new hampshire and saw a bunch of candidates and i was surprised how much trump is not mentioned. sort of this litany of abuses by this president is not necessarily a part of everyone's stump speech. it's really fascinating. maybe it has to do with a lot of these candidates are new and less famous, they want people to learn about them first. but trump's -- biden's going it differently. >> ayesha, i'll preface my next question with this, the latest fox news poll in march, biden polls seven points over trump. so with that said this is how the president is responding to biden's announcement, watch this. >> well, i don't know who it's going to be, maybe sanders or maybe biden. i think that, you know, when you look at joe, i've known joe over the years, he's not the

brightest lightbulb in the group, i don't think, but he has a name that they know. he -- he's coming on with little cute statements about me that he talked about the way the world is today. >> he's not the brightest bulb. >> i'd like to know who trump thinks is the brightest bulb in the field. >> oh, my gosh. so he then went on to discuss the military, the military tax cuts. how much do you expect him to focus on biden in the coming months? go ahead and say whatever you want. >> he will focus on biden a lot. talking to people who are kind of supporters of trump, they -- now they will say that they're not worried about any democratic candidate. but one candidate that does come up is joe biden. and so i think that especially between biden and trump i think it will -- it will be very personal. and i think that trump, for whatever reason, takes what biden says very personally, maybe because he's associated

with former president obama who president trump clearly has issues with and always wants to kind of one up. but i think that this is going to be kind of very personal between them. i mean, at this point he's kind of referring to joe biden as sleepy joe biden. now, that nickname seems to be just a nickname that he throws on people named joe. it doesn't really seem to be -- out of all the nicknames it doesn't seem to be the most creative. but that's what he's going with. i think that -- but i do think that this white house does look at joe biden as the moderate and that they feel like he would be difficult for them to beat because he is moderate and they look at everyone else as going too far to the left. >> wasn't there a song lock cotton eyed joe? >> yes, there was. >> jonathan, you know everything. jonathan, here's what else biden said at the fundraiser. he says i'm going to tell you exactly what i think. i'm going to be completely

honest with you, and as the old joke goes no one ever doubts, i mean, i mean what i say. sometimes i say all that i mean, but i make no apologies, none. so, you know, this has gotten him into trouble in the past. >> it has. >> but also he's had to apologize for it. trump also makes gaffes, doesn't apologize for his flubs. and maybe that's what people like about joe. >> yes. >> maybe he's just -- >> his biggest asset, don, is also his biggest liability, he does say what's on his mind and obviously that gets him into some trouble but it also reminds people he's a flesh and blood human being. he's got his flaws and people can relate to who he is and his trials and yes even his gaffes too. i think his focus on trump, not just personal. it's political too. the more this race is about trump and trump's conduct in america in the trump era, the

bigger joe biden looks and the bigger this race looks and that helps him stay out of the nit nitty-gritty that he does not want to get dragged into and litigate his past, take on attacks from various democratic opponents and get into the mud with them. he wants to be big and above the fray because otherwise, don, you know, why else should democrats pick him if this is just one more democratic primary and one more campaign? he's got to make this race a national emergency. this is a different kind of moment. one of his supporters from philadelphia, brendan boyle, a congressman, said this is the most important election since 1860. if it's not that urgent, he's not going to be the nominee. >> first of all, no one told me to say this, before you and i start getting e-mails -- tweets about it, i didn't mean rocka

billy, it's bluegrass. >> the biden style gaffe, don. we'll forgive you. >> quickly, please, i'm really over time. do you think that he did the best of sort of differentiating himself from the rest, maybe even overshadowing the rest and putting the election squarely where it's going to be and should be? >> in that video i think he certainly did that, yeah, the question is, can he sustain it when he faces questions from the press and from voters next week in iowa it's not going to be about charlottesville and trump, it's going to be about medicare for all, the green new deal and prisoners voting. then what does he do and say? can he stick to the script? >> front runner thousand, but a long way to go. >> thank you all. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. the honda cr-v is not. sorry, honda.

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cnn as learned that the north korean government presented the u.s. with a bill for $2 million for medical care for detained american otto warmbier, imprisoned by the north koreans in january of 2016 when he was on tour of the country and returned to the u.s. in 2017 in a coma. he died six days later. the former director of national intelligence, james clapper, is here to talk about this. good evening, director. thank you so much for joining us. such a brazen move on north korea's part demanding the u.s. pay after imprisoning, possibly killing, one of our citizens. his father says it sounds like a ransom. what do you say? >> well, first of all, this just, if it's possible, compounds the obscenity of what the north koreans did to otto warmbier. and it's true, you know, if this

is true, it is in character with the north cree yamkoreans who l every opportunity to generate hard currency. no matter as egregious as something like this. so i think it's a cautionary tale for heads of state who choose to embrace a brutal despot like kim jong-un. >> let me -- so the administration hasn't paid the $2 million, director, although cnn confirms that the trump administration agreed to it before north korea released warmbier into american custody back in 2017. what, if anything, should the u.s. do now? >> well, you know, if we did -- if this administration did ag e agree, i think that that really is extremely bad precedent because what it means is that a

koreans can choose to hold american citizen hostage for a big ransom. and they're not above doing that. i mean, it's just -- their singleminded drive for generating hard currency, and they'll look for every opportunity, every excuse to do it no matter how completely inappropriate and obscene that it is. so i think -- you know, offer advice that nobody will listen to, you know, just you need to be realistic about north korea and the nature of that regime. >> director, when you went to north korea in 2014, were you asked to pay ransom for the no american citizens, matthew miller, that you went there for? >> no. no, other than, of course, they look for every opportunity to make money by my visit. you know, for -- we had pay for, you know, exorbitant fee to park our aircraft on a remote taxiway

at sunan airport, you know, you wouldn't dream of paying what we paid for a hotel bill in a state guesthouse. they hosted a dinner for us which i found out later we paid for. so other than that, no, there was no overt request for money in exchange for the release of the two citizens who were imprisoned under hard labor conditions. they expected something else from my visit since i was first cabinet official to go there since madeleine albright had in the year 2000. they had other expectations. >> let me ask you about this. this is the political news. the election. vice president joe biden jumped into the presidential race today and i want to read to you something he said at a fund-raiser tonight. he said "the embrace of dictators and oligarchs in the face of dissing our friends,

talking about nato, talking about our allies in eastern -- excuse me, in the far east, in asia, it's just like what's going on here?" i imagine there are a lot of people around the world asking the same question. >> well, exactly. you know, and the irony is that our closest friends and allies who've been with us through thick and thin are really not only questioning what's going on here, but are genuinely concerned and worried about what's happening in this country and the void that many of them feel we're leaving in the world today. the leadership void. this is, i think, particularly true in nato. >> it's always a pleasure to have you on, and just, you know, when i saw that video of you over there for kenneth bay and matthew miller, just made me want to taunk you for your service to this country. thank you so much, director,

i'll see you soon. >> well, thanks, don. >> we'll be right back. "the rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel for some way." "i've seen a cat without a gri, but a grin without a cat." hey, mercedes, end audio. change lighting to soft blue. the completely reimagined 2020 gle. with intelligent voice control and available third row. your adventure awaits at the mercedes-benz spring event but hurry the event ends april 30th. webut some of us turn outhose dreams...... into action... the bookers. the doers. the 'hit that confirmation button and let's go!'- ers! because bookers know that the perfect place to stay... is right there for the booking. be a booker at booking.com the world's #1 choice for booking accommodations.

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